The Straight Outta Prison Podcast
Most people who know James K Jones today are surprised to discover that he spent a significant part of his life in prison. Despite being released for more than two decades, based on his numerous charges (including a federal offense), he should still be incarcerated. However, James has since moved on to marry and raise three wonderful children while also owning a business. This is the narrative of how he ended up in prison, his experiences inside: the people, the challenges, the dishonesty, and the deep self-realizations he encountered. Ultimately, James believes that his time behind bars actually saved his life. This is James recounting his journey, now intertwined with his wife Haley's story. Together, they share the tale - including all the twists and raw details - that eventually led to genuine liberation.
The Straight Outta Prison Podcast
An Intimate Exploration of Love, Secrets, and Relationships
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Welcome to an intimate exploration of love, secrets, and the complexities of relationships. Ever wondered what it's like to navigate the stormy seas of a secret love affair? Ever felt caught between the expectations of two worlds? Together, let's embark on this journey as I, James K Jones, unravel the tapestry of my personal life and business journey.
We dive headfirst into the tumultuous relationship between myself and Shana, a woman I met through her father Steve, who was not only my Pastor but a Father figure to me. Discover the roller coaster of emotions, from the exhilarating highs of secret love and extravagant gestures to the crushing lows of conflict and court cases. Learn about the difficult dynamics between me, Shana, and her parents... and how external pressures and interferences threatened to unravel everything.
Uncover the raw realities of co-dependency, fear, and shame, and witness a transformation as I recount my journey to healing. Each chapter peels back another layer, exposing my battle with insecurities and the courage it took to face them head-on. Come along as we reflect on life's seasons, the challenges they present, and the wisdom gleaned through them all. This episode is a testament to human resilience, the power of self-discovery, and the strength to navigate even the most tumultuous relationships.
More from James & Haley:
- The Royal Grant Initiative
- Chef James K Jones Website
- Cooking with Chef James K Jones (YouTube Channel)
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Hey guys , thanks for tuning in to the Straight Out of Prison podcast . My name is James K Jones and this is my story .
Speaker 2And this is hey Jones and this is his story . That has now become a part of my story , and this tagline is so interesting , considering what we're going to be talking about today .
Speaker 1This is funny . We're calling this episode . We're calling it Top of the Mountain because it really was like I'd been out of prison for five or six years . You know , I found success in my job . I found success in really in every area except for like relationship . I didn't still haven't found the girl that I wanted to be married to , but I was lonely and you know . But the reason why we call this Top of the Mountain is because around the beginning of 2005 , I began the process of opening my own business and the girl came home and we got together and so I really thought that I had everything that I ever wanted , everything I ever dreamed of .
Speaker 1And I remember one night during this time , like I had a dream and I was sitting at the head of the table and like Sean was there and Steve and his family and my mom , and it was like in the dream we were like at a table but we were in my restaurant and it was like I woke up , just so full of hope , like everything that I ever wanted . Every dream is coming true . It's crazy . And then , but I would go through this like back and forth , like is this what I'm really supposed to be doing because it's , you know , like pushing with this girl and then pushing with open this restaurant . It was hard and it was scary , but I needed to know , like Jesus , am I doing the right thing ? I remember like just getting on my knees next to my bed and being like , can you speak to me ? I don't feel like you're talking to me about this . I need to know that I'm doing the right thing .
Speaker 1And I stood up and I flipped up in my Bible when it opened up into the book of Romans and it said hope will never make you ashamed , for the love of God has been shed abroad in your hearts by the Holy Spirit . And I took that as a sign that Jesus was blessed in my endeavors and I just kept going and never looked back after that . But really , like now , I was like look at that scripture . That's not even what that means . It does say that hope . You know , when you have hope , you will never be ashamed . But the hope is not in success , the hope is not in achievement . The hope that's talking about is in Jesus . Like you know , when you put your hope and trust in him , then you won't have a shame and then the love of God will be shed in your heart and you know all things get happened .
Speaker 2Isn't that funny , though , that when we're in certain circumstances that we see or like , even scripture , anything really from a certain lens , that we interpret it to fit whatever we need it to fit at that time .
Speaker 1Yes .
Speaker 2Well , I just want to say so we've , as we've talked about kind of telling this part of the story , of this chapter I should say is that two really huge things , like you said , are like parallel in the timeline , and that is when you're starting your business , number one , and like the process of all that , which was a couple year long process , and then also Shauna , the love of your life , coming back to Birmingham , which we touched on last , and that relationship kind of starting to develop and everything that happened there . So what we're going to do is this episode , which I don't know why I find this so exciting to talk about .
Speaker 1I'm kind of I won't even talk about it if you don't want me to .
Speaker 2No , I want you to . I feel like I mean , this is the most interesting episode so far that we're going to be just talking about Shauna and that relationship and just how it ? Kind of developed and came along and then next week , next episode we'll talk about Kyra's . But just so y'all know kind of the timeline , yeah , both of these things were happening at the same time .
Speaker 1But it would be hard to tell the story , both stories at the same time , right , and I really need to tell the Shauna story first , because that was kind of the foundation of all the stuff that was happening with Kyra's because of her family .
Speaker 2So where we start , Okay , so in the beginning . So Shauna had just like two second recap had been married . Then her husband decided he didn't want to be married to her , so she came back to Birmingham and that was in 2004 . 2004 . But then some kind of reconciliation happened . She moved back to North Carolina .
Speaker 1South Carolina .
Speaker 2South Carolina details . And then it all went downhill again and she moved back to Birmingham for good right .
Speaker 1In 2005 . Yeah .
Speaker 2Okay , so she's in Birmingham for good . Yeah , and from the beginning , even from when you met her , when you were in prison , when she came in or somehow , you met her in prison , or what in prison , or you saw her oh , the banquet .
Speaker 1It was the banquet . The Shepherds felt banquet three days out of prison .
Speaker 2Right , and then you just felt like the light was shining down on her and she was . She was the one , the one .
Speaker 1God had made for you . But in prison Steve would tell stories about his kids and that's what I remember , I was always interested in the Shauna stories because she seemed like she was full of spunk and full of life . And you know she wasn't going along with everything he said and you know I just I liked her .
Speaker 2Right .
Speaker 1But I think part of that that I would have to recap later on was that I was so connected to Steve because he was like the first man that really like fathered me , and he wasn't my father but he filled that role . So there was something about that . I can't explain it like wanting to be in his family , right , or like you know , I don't even know . It's just weird . I had daddy issues . We've talked about that .
Speaker 2It's funny you say that , though , and it's triggering me and this is a random side note about me but I dated a guy all through high school named Giovanni , and she likes the dark man . Actually he did have a . He was Puerto Rican but he had the same skin tone and stuff . But , anyway , my parents became very good friends with his parents . I mean , they hung out all the time .
Speaker 1So they talked at our wedding , absolutely .
Speaker 2And I love them and they love me and we just I mean , we felt like family . And so when me and Gio broke up , I remember the dad like having to apologize to me for being bitter and resentful because he just always saw me as his daughter and was just sad that that was not going to be Well to set the scene , for that was kind of like that .
Speaker 1I was so close to Steve and then , because he was my person , like he was , he helped me through everything . I got really involved with Tony's family at Leonardo's but it was like they were the two worlds that didn't ever come together but I got . Actually , my mom was the one that got me closer to Steve's family . I was always close to Steve but she became like best buds with Lenora and then she fell in love with Steve's boys . He's got twins , derek and Eric .
Speaker 1She fell in love with them . They were like nine or 10 . And then Steve's second daughter , tanya , was still living at home before she got married and you know we did stuff with them . We always had like a Christmas time with them . I usually had them over for like Easter , you know . Anytime we had something at my house .
Speaker 2So y'all were close .
Speaker 1Well , we were close . But then we got closer . But during all this time Shawna had moved away to South Carolina so she was never around . But during this time when initially getting the Kyra stuff started , tanya's husband , jeremy , he came on board . He was going to come work with me . So we were together a lot and I would probably say Tanya at that time was like my best friend and it sounds weird that she's married to Jeremy , but it wasn't like a . I liked her like a girl , I liked her like a person , like she's she . I mean there was not any like , any kind of like that kind of like chemistry between us . And then she met Jeremy . She got married .
Speaker 2Right .
Speaker 1I actually thought one time that I liked Tanya and I had a dream that we got married and I was like I looked at her and I was like this ain't right . And she was like I know and so but she was my friend and she could always help me feel better . So I do think she was a seven , I think she's a seven , but we were close , we did , we did everything together . I was like a third wheel with them , like we got to dinner , you know , we had small groups at their house with small groups in my house and we pretty much at least once or twice a week , we got together . And then when Jeremy came on board to be my , my guy and starting Kairos , and then he was going to do the delivery and the catering stuff for me , we were together all the time .
Speaker 1So I was always , I guess , ensconced in Steve's family . And then , you know , once we started the Cairo stuff , then he became a business partner for me and so does wife . So it started off like we were kind of like family or church family , whatever you want to call it yeah , but more than that .
Speaker 1I mean I spent a lot of time with their house . I was very involved in their family and I love , I love Steve's family .
Speaker 2Well , I think you go through seasons , and we all do go through seasons where we're closer to some people , not because of the season , and where we find ourself , you know . So that was definitely a season or close .
Speaker 1Okay , go ahead and set that . Yeah , we were already that's the foundation pretty , pretty connected . But then she came home .
Speaker 2So she came home . So was it like their first date situation , or did like what did it look ?
Speaker 1like she was still married .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1Okay , when she came home , she was married , but I knew , when I saw her and I knew that it was over between them , I knew that this was happening the way it's supposed to happen and I was going to get my shot .
Speaker 2And did you okay ? So did you feel like that was God's way of correcting things ? Yeah , Because I felt like you know , so to speak .
Speaker 1Well then I started learning details of her marriage . Like he never wanted to be married to her . Told her on her honeymoon you know I made a mistake , I shouldn't have did this , that's hard Took her off to follow a dream . He went with his dad to South Carolina , started a restaurant and basically like , worked her to death . She wasn't loved . You know she couldn't hang a picture on her wall in her house Like he was a controller and like surface .
Speaker 1He was a great guy . He worked for me at Leonardo's . I hired him to be a server I think my second or third year before they moved to South Carolina and I liked him . But he was like one of those people . He was very like success oriented and you know he would read all these books about you know how to make more tips and you know stuff like that . And I remember checking him out one night and him tell me about this book that you're supposed to put your hand on somebody's shoulder when you're waiting on them and use their first name . And I said , dave , you know I check you out every night , I see your tips . You make less than anybody . So I think all that book learning you got ain't really like like it ain't , like there's no results in that for you . And he was like you know what ? I think you're right , but I ended up having to fire him because he he did something to a customer . But anyways , I'm getting off track . He never really connected with her . He didn't really want to be married to her .
Speaker 2So then , why did he get married ?
Speaker 1I don't know . I don't know . They were young . They were young , but he was also addicted to porn , so it was all that . And then you know , I think they were married for like five years but he basically told her every day I don't want you , I'm , you're here . So she was broken when she came home and I had heard , like , some of the details , because I was close to Steve and we were in a men's group together so he would share , he was . This was very painful for him Because in their family they'd never been a divorce , because they have a a menonite background and in the menonite faith you'd be better off to kill somebody and find forgiveness than to get a divorce .
Speaker 2Yeah , you mentioned that last week .
Speaker 1So I mean it was a big deal . It was a big deal in her family , it was a big deal for Steve Okay .
Speaker 2So I want to get to the part where there was some coming together .
Speaker 1It was , it was , it was kind of it didn't have . I knew to tread lightly and then like looking back on it now she was still married , like what was I doing ?
Speaker 2But I married yeah .
Speaker 1But in the beginning , steve and Lenora , her parents , they were pushing , pushing that Like she told me that they were talking and she was saying all the things you know , I want to get married and find somebody that loves me and I want to have a family , I want to do this , and that Steve said somebody like James . So they were already and I felt like that was them putting their blessing on that .
Speaker 2Encouraging it , yeah , so they were kind of pushing us that direction .
Speaker 1But then she moved in with Tony and Jeremy and that was already my home away from home . I hung out over there all the time so it was just natural that I was always there and now she's living there . And then she got a little job and she was just she was having a very hard time like adjusting and I was just sad for her . She was like she was broke I mean anybody going through divorce but the way she she had fought so hard to save her marriage for all those years and it was just it ended up being not there . So the way I saw it was like you never even really was married . I mean she was , but the way I saw it at the time and Once again .
Speaker 2It's just funny because when I say this , because I think everyone can relate to it , is that you , we believe what we want to believe , yeah , and when we want something , we can kind of like twist and like flip the script that it fits Well in my mind in my mind she was supposed to marry me and somehow they got stolen from me and but now it was .
Speaker 1it was Jesus putting it all back together the way it was supposed to be , and it was a . It was an exciting time . You know , and I did . I did fall in love with her . I mean , it wasn't .
Speaker 2I can't imagine that the you know she's moved in with Tony and Jeremy and then you were already over there . I'm just . I mean , I can think like young and love like the thrill of like oh , we're going to see him . You know like it was an exciting feeling and time Okay .
Speaker 1So I think the first full day we spent together , we went into Six Fags , a group of us from church and took a lot of kids , so it was probably about 15 , 20 of us that went to Six Fags and she rode with me and some other people but we spent , you know , like 12 hours together that day and there was no like romance , but we were both feeling it . You know what I mean . Oh , I know , but we had all the church people around us too .
Speaker 1Yeah , and then there was another guy that went to church with us . That was crushing on her and , you know , later on , when he saw us looking at each other , he got mad and , you know , started a bunch of mess and it was just , it was drama . But I just had like a piece and you know , like I just need to take my time , keep moving forward and this will work out the way it's supposed to . So when I ended up , she took a lunch break . She worked for an office supply company and a mutual friend of ours worked there too . Actually , I think she got her the job . So they went out to lunch every day . So on Mondays , when I was off , and on Wednesdays , when I didn't work the day shift , I would go take her , I would go to lunch with them , and so that was kind of how it started .
Speaker 2How did that start ? Did she invite you or did you invite yourself ?
Speaker 1I'm not sure . Her other friend , her friend that she worked . Her name was Shauna too , so it was kind of confusing . It was spelled different , like her friend's name was Shauna with a W and Shauna's name was Shauna without a W . So she knew that , she knew what was going on and she was like our little person that we both talked to Right , because in the beginning we didn't talk to each other Like I would say what does she say Control ? Oh , she said she's been coming to your Sunday school class and she loves the way you do and she's learned so much from you and that she was up there looking fine . She noticed you've been doing your hair different and all that stuff .
Speaker 2So it was how haven't we all been there ? It was like teenager stuff , yeah , but I mean , I was 30 years old , so or 32 , I don't remember how it was , but anyways .
Speaker 1It doesn't matter when you're spending . Here was the problem she was still legally married . He filed for divorce in South Carolina and South Carolina has a law and it's just to prevent divorce , because that's a pretty South Carolina is a pretty conservative state and the law in South Carolina is , if you file for divorce , you have a year , a 12-month waiting period before your divorce can be finalized . And it's something they put in the they had some statistics like people work it out and figure it out , and so I'm not saying it's a bad thing .
Speaker 2Right , it sounds good to me actually , but at this time of my life . It was a horrible thing it was like yeah , oh my God , I can see that .
Speaker 1And then he wouldn't file . He wouldn't file Like he couldn't pull the trigger . So finally I told her , you know , after we got involved , like you can go file , you can go to a lawyer and do it , I'll pay for it . Whatever we need to do , so we need to like , we need to pull the trigger , get it going . But I'm getting ahead of myself . It just slowly turned into , you know , because we did we did we went to church together , we did stuff outside of church together , my little you know how I used to hang out with Tonya and Jeremy . It became me and her and Tonya and Jeremy . So it just it just like naturally evolved into it was always there for me , but I was waiting on her to let me know , yeah , and then she called me for lunch .
Speaker 1She wanted to go to lunch this one day and um said that she needed to be just me because she needed to talk to me . And so I was walking in there thinking , you know , we're finna , get engaged . You know , everything was good . But she was like very hesitant about what she wanted to say to me and she basically said , if this had been any other time in my life , we would be married on our honeymoon right now . But I'm still married and I can't , like this is wrong and we just need to put the brakes on it until this is settled with Dave , with her husband , and I was like no , not no . And you know I told her the whole story . You know I've always knew I was supposed to be with you , all the stuff . You know I have a vision . I showed her my vision .
Speaker 2Okay , so let's pause .
Speaker 1I put it on too thick .
Speaker 2When she said you know , put a break on it because I'm still married . But at that talk had y'all already gotten physical , had y'all kissed no . So it was really like mainly emotional Okay .
Speaker 1Yeah , and spending time together .
Speaker 2But y'all , both were like . I'll use the 2021 word vibing .
Speaker 1Yeah , well , we spent . I called her every night when I came home from work .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1And we would talk on the phone until my phone , it was those older , it was before iPhones Right , Like those flip phones , it would get hot and start sweating on my face and I would just go walk around my neighborhood having my nightly chat . Oh , that sounds exhausting it does now , but we were . No , we talked about everything Like it was just . That was how we connected . I guess .
Speaker 1But she was doing the right thing . She was saying this is getting to , we're both going too far and too deep . We just , she said , I'm not saying we don't need to be together , it's just I can't right now . We gotta pause this and wait .
Speaker 1And I said no , like no . I said I knew you weren't supposed to marry Dave . You can look at the video of your wedding . Cause I did . I watched the video of her wedding . I was in the audience smirking at him Like cause I ? But I did feel like , I felt like it was a show , I felt it was just weird , but I was like and I was right , and I was right , and so so funny , like even now , like that sounds like you and you're a typical response for you , like uh-huh .
Speaker 1Well , I knew something wasn't right and but anyways , I left the lunch cause she had to go back to work . And who do you think I called ?
Speaker 2Steve , he was my person .
Speaker 1I didn't even realize at the time how sensitive this could be , like him advising me about his own daughter .
Speaker 2Right right .
Speaker 1And I told him everything and he was like hold up , hold up , hold up James or James . He said look , most men will not allow me to speak truth into their lives , even though I'm a pastor , and I'm pastor people . He said if you'll let me , I can get you through this . I can help you . I can help you . He said call her back and tell her you respect her wishes and you'll do whatever she says . He said if you don't , she's gonna start feeling guilty and then it's gonna be a problem and then this is never gonna happen . But if you'll do it the right way and he was like and I know her , I know how she thinks , if she thinks that you're respecting her , then she's gonna , it's gonna work out and you can wait . He said you can wait a few months . And I did . I took his advice . I called her back and said you're right , you know we'll cool it whatever . And we kind of tried to , but we didn't .
Speaker 2Okay . So I know , as a woman , that as soon as you called her and said , okay , you're right , we'll cool it Her does it Well , I said , I respect your wishes . Okay , whatever you said in that vein .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Her desire went into overdrive .
Speaker 1Why .
Speaker 2Because that's how we work . When you say when you say okay , I respect your wishes , I wanna do like that made her want you more . So really , steve's advice was on point for making her , but I didn't Because there is nothing more . When I mean , like I said , steve was right , when you feel like a man is like respecting your wishes and like listening to you and hearing you , like that is very fricking attractive .
Speaker 1Girl , we need to pause this . Go respect you . I kind of feel like I'm cheating on you talking about this . It's weird . I'm in the emotion of where I was then .
Speaker 2Yeah , no , it's good , but I'm looking at my wife .
Speaker 1So it's great . This is kind of weird like podcast .
Speaker 2But it's , but I okay . Here's where I feel like it's kind of neat too is because I mean , I think we all have walked through something that was just like so real and we believe something so fully , only to realize later , like gosh , hindsight's 2020 , right Like but that emotion was real and it was like 100% .
Speaker 1It was , I was all in .
Speaker 2Yeah , so I mean .
Speaker 1It was like the . I'd always wondered if , ever , if I was too damaged to ever fall in love , because , I mean , I was in my 30s but this carried you back . No , it was like what they talk about . It was like that , you know , I found my person . I'm head over heels . I'll do whatever you know .
Speaker 2Okay . So once you called her and said you're right , we'll call it , we'll put on pause , whatever the words you used we tried to do that and then it just it probably To the next level .
Speaker 1Well , we didn't change any of our . We're still doing everything together , right ? So it was it's kind of weird , right . So what ended up happening was Dave was coming to town and and he wanted to see her , and so I was like why you need to see him ? You know , I was getting all hot and bothered and I called Steve again and he was like you got to let her . Y'all shouldn't be this close now anyways , but you have to let her deal with that , and if you don't let her deal with it , she's gonna resent you later on and it's gonna come back to haunt you . So I thought I'm gonna leave that alone .
Speaker 1It was hard to leave it alone . I was like obsessing in my mind . But I woke up that morning and I was like what can I do ? So I called Floors downtown , close to her office , naturally , and I was like I don't give you my credit card number . I need you to make the biggest , best Bunch of flowers . I need it to be over the top , I don't care how much it costs , and I need to make a statement and I need it . I need it to be today , before before the end , before she leaves work today . I need it to be today and he , oh , I think he charged my $300 . I Was like , but it was worth it . I was like I'm making , I'm making this statement , so she got her . She worked in a cubicle , she got her $300 with the flowers .
Speaker 1She worked in a cubicle and her friend , shauna Shauna right she took a picture of it and sent it to me . Like it filled up her cubicle . It was like this big , like urn , with red roses popping out of it and ferns , and it was just all all over the place . And she sent me a voicemail Because she didn't want to talk to me and she was like those are the most beautiful flowers I've ever seen in my life and you're like yeah but I was sitting around like I want you to know I love you , I want you know before she went back into that situation .
Speaker 1So she went and had dinner with him . He had something with a business where he oh he had started building houses . Like he was all over the place doing stuff and he gave her like $5,000 and was just trying to settle his account with her . What he said Settle his account . This was how he thought he was . Steve called him emotionally retarded , which is kind of a Turn , but it kind of made sense to him because he didn't like see things like you didn't like . I make people feel .
Speaker 2I feel like I was winning if I was her . I'm getting flowers as big as my cubicle at work , going to dinner , getting $5,000 , selling accounts . I'd be like mama is in the game .
Speaker 1Okay , but that was where the For lack of better words I should hit the fan . Okay after that . So we'll get into this next week with a chiro story , but I had to . I went through the small business administration and I had to travel to Decatur , alabama , alabama , to spend the day with the businessman and get him to approve my business plan for Kairos . And I was on the way back and the guy Approved all my stuff to make some little tweaks in my business plan . And when I was leaving out , he gave me a dishwasher out of one of his coffee shops . He was like they got , we don't use dishwashers like you can have . This , I saw , was on your plan and it was like a $5,000 Wow dishwasher that I used at Kairos . I mean , it's still there really .
Speaker 1Um , so I'm just on top of the world heading back , you know , do my thing and I get a call from Steve and he Was very harsh with me . So I was like what's up ? And I was telling him about the dishwasher and all things and he said I have to call you , I have to confront , you have to confront your behavior . And I said what behavior ? And he was like what you're doing with Sean has to stop . This has to stop . You're in sin . And I was like , no , I'm not , and he's like she's married and you're sending the flowers . And so he had found out I sent her flowers and he went on a deep investigation of what we were doing , like asking Tonya and Jeremy , asking people , asking Shauna . He found out we've been going to lunch and you know I've been hanging out over there . So he told me that I was sinning and I was like I hadn't . I mean sin is like having sex . I haven't done anything . I mean , kister , I haven't done anything . And he commanded me To stay away from her .
Speaker 2Oh , that's not good , commanding you to not do something or do well .
Speaker 1I had a level respect for him though at that time , where he was like a father to me but he was also my pastor and now I was just getting twisted because now he was my business partner too . Yeah , so it was weird , but I did . I always had a level respect for him . I listen to him . I probably listen to him more than I've ever listened to anybody .
Speaker 2So what was your thought then on the phone ? What was your first thought when he commanded you use that word Stay away from her ashamed like I was , just Because he said I was a sinner , you're in sin , oh . He's not ashamed , that was .
Speaker 1Not it for it did later on yeah but no , in beginning I was ashamed , like I , and I was confused because I was like y'all were pushing this . Y'all were pushing this from day to day . She got here like y'all were , like even her mom . I felt like they were pushing it like they were Giving their blessing . I did . I was confused .
Speaker 1It was just like there was some kind of switch flipped with him where he decided , you know , everything was good . I mean , he'd be giving me counsel about how to go along with it . But he just told me I was wrong and that I was in sin and she was in sin and we needed to cut it out . And he told me that I didn't need to be anywhere near her . I didn't know . I need to go to Tony and Jeremy's house . I didn't need to sit with her in church . She didn't need to come to my son's school class . I definitely didn't need to be going on to eat with her . So it was like I was 15 years old and he was afraid I was gonna put my wiener in her or something . No , I'm just saying it like the way it made me feel like I was a little kid .
Speaker 2Well , it's interesting , you say 30 .
Speaker 1I think I was 32 or 33 .
Speaker 2Well , because , okay , let's pause and she was like 28 before she came back , you were hanging out there all the time , so it was basically telling you like not to live life . You had been living , yeah , even before she got there , yeah . But here's another interesting thing is I did not expect you to say that you felt shamed or ashamed . I did , but now that you say that I can see I , when you really care and Respect someone like you said you did him . I mean , I know this about you and you get called out because you're pretty good at when you're confronted about things that that you feel ashamed and it's like a it was deep , it was painful .
Speaker 2Yeah , and I went home . That's a hard .
Speaker 1I went home and cried like I was like , yeah , okay , what do I do now , you know ? But I felt like okay . But then he explained to me , like you don't understand marriage , like divorce , is not God's plan , and you know this has happened to her , but it shouldn't have happened . And you know he had been a part of like trying to keep them married for five years . But you know how I think I was like well , you shouldn't have pushed her to marry him in the start with then we wouldn't even be having this conversation , we wouldn't even . So there was some of that going on . But then he told me not to even call her and tell her that and he said she's my next phone call . I'm gonna tell her not to call you and y'all just need to cease communication .
Speaker 2What's so interesting too , I think now as parent , you and I as parents- and thinking about Lula . I mean , you know we've talked about this . Your gift of empathy is not exactly like thriving , but think of the situation he was in no , I do now right , but like to understand . I mean , I'm kind of understanding it better as you're talking about it because , you know , maybe he felt some regret . I mean , I don't know this , this is me speculating . Maybe he felt some regret about you know I'm stopping it .
Speaker 1No mom's advice to that , because mama lived with me that time . What she was like . He went home and talked to the Nora . She found out some stuff and she told him he better straighten that out . That's what happened .
Speaker 2I mean , and just maybe him lamenting that and then you really grieving for your daughter ? No one ever wants to see your kid walk through something like that and it was hard and then maybe being excited because he loved you . I mean , there was probably so many emotions there and it was a weird situation confusion for him even you know what to do , and how to do it . So I'm just empathizing with Steve here a little bit .
Speaker 1So we took the shame and the guilt . She did , I did . I think that lasted .
Speaker 2Two days .
Speaker 1no , just kidding , no it lasted about a month , okay , and I had this . I had this song that I had on the CD that I played in my room every morning , like I was . That was when you still did mix CDs , but I would listen music while I was getting ready for work and it was Play that every morning . I'd be like , if I can , just if I can just not talk to her , I'll get there . You know I'll get there , but I'll see her at church and I'll be so sad and it was but what he ended up doing .
Speaker 1I love you and you're hilarious that you were listening to somewhere over the rainbow it wasn't the old one , it was the one from the 41st date .
Speaker 2It doesn't matter , baby .
Speaker 1It's a little , you can lay some , but I did . I was just . I was lovesick , like all my friends they're all like James , you got a snap out of it .
Speaker 1It ain't . But it wasn't like we . He broke us up . It was just like he wanted us to wait for everything to be fine , all right . So that lasted about two months and then I I couldn't stay away from her , she couldn't stay away from me . So then we just started sneaking around . And Once we started sneaking around , then Steve became the enemy , lenore became the enemy , and Tommy and Jeremy , who are my best friends at that time . They became the enemy Because they were always telling on us and which is crazy to think about that .
Speaker 2Like you , you mentioned a couple minutes ago that you were 30 years old and she was a grown man .
Speaker 1Yeah , she was . I was 33 , she was 26 . Yeah , like we're way past , you know you gotta make your own decisions tell us what she lived with them . So we was sneaking around . I remember she had to hide in her room at night to talk to me on the phone Because she couldn't be walking around talking on phone because they would tell I Mean . And Jeremy was like that too . He's . He's very like rule-oriented . You know , you gotta follow the rules , the Steve said . And he would tell and I would get so mad like .
Speaker 1Why you gotta act like why not do that ? But uh , she had AT&T or T-Mobile or something and it didn't pick up in the room so it kept dropping the calls . So I said I'm gonna pick you up from work tomorrow , I'm gonna take you to the riser store , I'm gonna get you a phone . And I took her to get her phone , but it was so I could talk , so we could talk . And I let her pick out her own phone . And she was like I can pick out , dave , never let me pick out a phone . And I was like , well , just get whatever you want Stay with daddy James .
Speaker 1He was a guy , well , I mean I was making a lot of money .
Speaker 1Then I had you know I was showering her with things . But , um , she got . She picked out a red phone , like it made it . She just was in love . She was like screaming like a little kid with the phone walking through the mall . And then we got in the car and she was like they're gonna know . And I was like , no , what they're gonna know . You got this phone for me and I was like you don't have to tell them everything , just tell me when got a phone and she was like you know , tonya , I can't lie , you know I'm not gonna be able to lie . And I was like , well , just don't say anything . And she got home , she got in the car with Tonya . They went somewhere and Tonya said where'd you get that phone ? And she was like , oh , and she was like JJ took you and bought you a phone , didn't he ? No , cuz Tonya is like very aware she's not right and so it just it started this .
Speaker 1It was just , it was bad . At the same time , jeremy , steve and Lenora and me , we were the team that was building out Kairos , so we were having to meet a couple times a week .
Speaker 2So this is all happening at the same time ?
Speaker 1Oh they got so bad , yeah , I would get so mad and so aggravated and I would , you know , bring it up in our meeting . Like I understand , lenora , understand you have a problem with me , and she would be like what , like she'd never been talked to like that before . But I'm like whatever's going on , we need to get it out . And they were trying to like compartmentalize it like this is the Kairos meeting , like we only do Kairos stuff , and then this if we we need to talk about this , we'll talk about it another time . But then Lenora asked me not to talk to her anymore about Shauna because she said she couldn't handle it . Like the way I talked was , I guess , too blunt and Was okay .
Speaker 2let's be honest Were you disrespectful ?
Speaker 1I wasn't disrespectful .
Speaker 2You don't think so .
Speaker 1No , okay , there was one time this may this is good for me to talk this out there was a time during this season , before the divorce was final , where Shauna came to me and said she'd been feeling guilty and that Dave called her and she was still legally married and maybe she should go back to him . And I was like are you out of your your mind ? Are you ? Have you lost your mind ? And you know so ?
Speaker 2were y'all like kissy kissy at this time .
Speaker 1We're together . We never had sex not an asset .
Speaker 2I'd go like kiss when y'all started sneaking around . When did y'all have yours for first , kiss ?
Speaker 1I said I wouldn't kiss her to her divorce was final .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1And I missed it by like a month , it was just . But you don't , you don't cuddle and snuggle and expect , you know so , but , there she decided she was supposed to go back to him and I was like you are , like you're crazy , and I went and talked to Tanya and Tanya was telling me about Her mom . Has a brother that has schizophrenia like a diagnosis of skits . Her uncle and .
Speaker 1So I was like , well , maybe she's just crazy , like cuz , I was hurt and I was mad and I was , I mean , like I had people that work with me , my one friend , david . He was like , yeah , I heard your girl went all Andrea Yates on you because Andrew Yates the lady that was here in from God and put her kids under the water . And I was like , yeah , something like that . Yes , I don't like it , because I thought she was really going back to him and I was hurt . And then I went and talked to Steve and I told him she was crazy and he was like no , she's going through a divorce . And I said , well , don't know , her got a crazy brother , like don't you have a crazy brother ? And he told me stay , james , you're talking about my daughter and now you're talking about my wife and you're talking about my wife's family . So you're like he like Told him like you don't talk like that .
Speaker 2Yeah that .
Speaker 1Got back to the Nora Cuz . Jeremy told me that she ain't so much mad at you about Stuff with Sean , she's mad cuz . You said she had a crazy brother and I was like , but she does have a crazy . I mean , if you're .
Speaker 2Okay , so I can say cuz you know , I know you and I love you so much yeah .
Speaker 1Well , no , I've come a long way . Yes , you have , but you can even like now .
Speaker 2Sometimes you can say things that you , I don't think , realize how Mean and harsh you sound . I don't think it's your intention , but I'm better now than I've ever been .
Speaker 1Yeah , going through this , I agree with that but at the time I didn't understand and I thought it was because I wasn't midnight , because you know , the Nora grew up , men and I , where she had to put the hat on her head and , you know , look like a coffee filter thing you put on your head and they told her if you don't wear that , you know the guy don't love you and you can bad things happen to you .
Speaker 1So she was only like 10 years out of that . So I felt like , okay , this is the the midnight day , I'm not a midnight . So I brought that up and she was like I don't think that , james , I don't think that . But then it was almost like I started to believe and it was a lie , because it wasn't true , because they loved me up into that point .
Speaker 1But I started to believe that like , okay , steve has made me his project and I'm good to come to his church , I'm good to be a part of his family , quote unquote you know loosely , I'm good to start a business with , I'm good to be business partners and do the restaurant and do the church stuff and all things , but don't try to Marry my daughter .
Speaker 2And I believe that , like , but you're not good enough to marry my daughter .
Speaker 1Yeah , and it caused me a lot of trouble and I basically , you know , like the cancel culture , now we cancel .
Speaker 2I canceled them like I'm so pause , because you never really finished . She said she was gonna go back to Dave . You got really upset and angry . Did she ever go back to Dave ?
Speaker 1Oh , no , she came . She came to her senses , okay . So she was . She struggled with like , guilt , like , and then her grandmother , who's very Conservative , midnight called her and told her all right , well , sweetie , if you're all gonna get a divorce , I've already put his name on the family quilt and I'm not taking it off , because once you're married , you're always married and you can just get you a little single person's ministry and that's how you can live out the rest of your life . So she told her you know you can't remarry . What is that Remarriage ? What is that ? So she can't get remarried .
Speaker 1And then there was one time she called me during that time and she said I'm just , I'm scared of Marrying you . And I was like , scared of what ? And she was like well , I read some statistics today . I said , if your family has ever been divorced and you have more likely to be divorced , so your mom's been divorced and that makes your statistics go up . And I was like what the hell are you talking about ? Like you're divorced , I'm not divorced , I never even been married . Like what are you ? Don't put that on me , I'll put that statistic on me .
Speaker 2So we started having little problems and then Okay , so it sounds like the relationship from the beginning . Really was just like fully charged it sounds I mean that's the word I think of like it was very high intensity , but it was always like Just very intense .
Speaker 1Steve told me that Later on , when I could hear him , he said when y'all first got started , if y'all are in the same room even if it was church I could hear out Like a sucking sound , like y'all just sucking the life out of each other , and we were like I was only interested in her , she was only interested in me , you know . Nobody else mattered .
Speaker 2Okay , so what do you what ? Do you say to the person ? Because I feel like someone could say like , well , that's how it is when you fall in love , like you Only care about like her , and you're like very hyper focused and think about it's like talk about that's all you . So what's wrong with that ?
Speaker 1Nothing . I think that's part of it . I mean it's limerence . We learn that right .
Speaker 2Well , why don't we say what limerence is real quick .
Speaker 1Lemurrace is . I don't want to get off on that right , but just lemurrace . We learn this one in some of our marriage classes that we've been through and done . Lemurrace is a chemical that's released in your brain when you fall in love with somebody , and it's what makes you get crazy . It's what made Tom Cruise jump up and down on the couch in Oprah talking about Katie Holmes yeah , you know . Then they got divorced two months later . Two years later .
Speaker 2It's literally a chemical release that makes you think yes , it's the love .
Speaker 1It's the love , yeah okay .
Speaker 2So things started to go wrong . There's little things that started to kind of well .
Speaker 1I canceled her family .
Speaker 2You canceled her family .
Speaker 1That's kind of a big deal . Yeah , I look dead to me . Yeah , I couldn't talk to Steve , I couldn't talk to Laura . Me and Tonya never gave up on me . She always kept you know , I love you . But I couldn't stand Jeremy anymore and we were working together . So it was so hard . And then I Remember one , this one time , jeremy Calling saying we're all going to Atlanta tomorrow as a family , just family . Like basically , don't try to bring James . And I remember just getting so , just like disgust with them , and I started like Having like a hatred towards me . My mom was like baby , I'm worried about you , like this is , this is not , this is not you , this is not not like you were ousted .
Speaker 2You were like brought in , like where coerced in . I can see how you felt that way . I don't think that was their intention . No , but like but then , like , like a little bit caught , all like we're doing this , yes , we're starting a business , and then you felt just like really rejected .
Speaker 1Yeah , and you know We've talked about me dealing with my issues and I think the last season , the following part you know I had a rejection was my biggest one . Yeah , and I felt like this was compounded times a thousand .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1But she was in a different place , like she was with me . But then we started arguing and you know , stuff started happening and then I had fights when you say stuff started happening .
Speaker 2Yeah , just arguing yeah like I would .
Speaker 1You know , I started noticing everything bad about her family and then she started noticing everything bad about my mom and it was just like what started out good turned Toxic . Yeah , it was bad . And then my friend , even mr Fuleta , was like you got to get away from this girl . I mean , james , I know you're in love but you know and I've been rooting for you , but you gotta do something . Like Dana and them at Leonardo's , they wouldn't say her name , they would say that girl , james is running around with that girl , that girl .
Speaker 1But I Think the next big thing that happened , her uncle , steve's brother , called me on the phone . Well , duh , I guess I'm not saying on the phone , but he called me . He was like I need to talk to you and I said Okay , and he said Janet that's his wife Told me that . You told her that you and Shawna were dating and I said well , we kind of are . And he said Are you out of your mind ? She's still married . And I said she's legally married , but it's because there's a process like she's got a weight on her divorce to be final .
Speaker 1And he like gave it to me . He was like that was my wife . You say you dating and we're trying to work things out and you date . Now I come and do something to you and I was like , well , that's not the case , he's not , he don't even want her , like he's never wanted her , and he made a big deal out of it and they I think it was the next day I have a friend , nelson , that was the worship leader at Grayson truth . He was on the elders because , like in that kind of church , the elders , like with the pastor , run the church . And he called me and he said Darryl has put a complaint against you to the elders and what does that even mean ?
Speaker 1like they're gonna like talk about you and see how to punish you or whatever . I don't know what they do , I don't know . Well , I don't know what would have happened . But Nelson called me and I said what do you want me to do ? I said we're not , it's not like we're having sex or anything like that . And he's like I know and I know you and I know her . He said but I think you need to show up and Speak for you . I don't like this idea of them like bringing a case against you and making a big thing out of it . And so I went this .
Speaker 2Okay . I have to pause and say there's like a courtroom . I literally sounds like historical times , like when the church is bringing a case against you yeah . I Mean I kind of have a hard time with that . No , I don't know a lot about and I'm not try not to judge , but at the same time it just feels very Like what can they do to you ? Reprimands , I know you've put yourself under the authority of Steve as your pastor , and you know .
Speaker 1Steve wasn't there . He was on sabbatical so he wasn't part of the meeting he had taken through .
Speaker 2So I believe in , you know that kind of stuff . But I just feel like in this it just feels like what are they gonna do ? Stone you .
Speaker 1I don't know . I think they would reprimand you or what I don't know . Okay , what it ?
Speaker 2feels like a process that would just push someone away .
Speaker 1I didn't like it but but I like I had friends there . They were my , you know right . So I just went in there and they were like Darryl . He was shocked to see me there and he laid out his case and there was like seven of them and then I was just I tried not to be angry .
Speaker 2This is making me it's like cringe worthy for me .
Speaker 1I tried not to be . I told him the truth . I said this is what's happening .
Speaker 1And Paul Wendorf he was a you never met Paul , I don't know man , but anyways , he was a Hoover . He was about my age and he grew up with Shawna and he knew her and he knew me and he said so what you're saying is that this is a technicality , like she's technically still married but the divorce is going through and she will be divorced . And I was like yeah , he had every elder go around and give me their blessing to be with Shawna and they prayed for me in our future marriage . At the end of that Elders meeting and I thought Darrell was gonna burn a hole in the floor because he was so pissed off . And then his wife , janet , she called me and was like Dave's always gonna be my family and I was like I don't care , like Move , move to South Carolina with him , don't stop , stop mess with me about this . So that got cleared and then it kind of became like a thing that we're gonna do that Some people knew that we were together so it got cleared in the context of this little .
Speaker 1Church , this court room , yeah , I don't know what , but you were still being rejected by the family . Yeah , no , I'd cancel them and then canceled you .
Speaker 2It sounds like .
Speaker 1Mmm . Steve love me .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1I was , I was , I was in the wrong .
Speaker 2I mean , yeah , I agree , I'm just I'm Laying out the dynamics at the time .
Speaker 1We went . It was like a two or three month period . It kind of came to a head her birthday was June in June and she wanted to have a birthday dinner and they were gonna all go to cheesecake factory .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm and she told me that I should come and I said I don't want to go , I don't want to be around them . And she said , well , if we're together , just let's just go . And so I went and it was like a we got like a table with like a party of ten and I treated her like I would any other time . I held her hand , you know , snuggled up to her , and Steve , they hated it . They were so mad . They were mad at me like it was the most awkward dinner I've ever been through in my life .
Speaker 1And we got to the end of it and Sean was getting in my car and Lenora was crying and hugging her and I was like what is wrong with them ? They're crazy people . But we had decided this is what we're doing . So this is what we're doing . And then the end of June we had planned a trip over to Atlanta . We're gonna stay with my aunt Glenis and go to Six Flags . Her divorce got finalized the last day of June and she got the call and she called me and she was crying and she was so excited and you know we can be free , we can be at the gathering , all stuff , and it was emotional and it was good , but I Made a mistake . I was excited and I was pissed , so I called all of them . I call Steve .
Speaker 1I was like James hey , I just want to let you know Sean was divorced , it's finalized and we're going to Atlanta for the week . And he was like why are you calling me ? I said , I just want to let you know . And he was like James , I love you and I I don't want this to sound harsh , but I've been walking through this with my daughter for the past six years and I think I'd really appreciate it if I got this news from her . And so I was like , oh , I didn't mean to hurt your feelings , I just thought I was doing what I was supposed to do , just want to let you know , we're free , we can do what we want . And then I called her , uncle Darrell , I called her in Janet , I called them all and told them yeah , she's divorced , so I'm free , I can do what I want .
Speaker 1And I was very immature , like emotionally , but I was hurt by them , like the way they treated me , the right , just all of it . And it was . Then I'm , then , at the same time , I'm trying to open a restaurant with them , which was just . It was just so twisted and bad .
Speaker 2Here's the interesting part to me , and I feel like sometimes you still struggle with us now . What is that you Like wanted to and I mean I know why , hearing the story Call each of them individually and be like she's divorced , we're free .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2But the reality of it is you were free the whole time .
Speaker 1Actually we're not free .
Speaker 2Well , I mean you kind of were like as an adult you're free to make your own decisions . It's almost like you put yourself kind of like and like in Bondage to their instructions . They're that was the hole that they had right , but what I'm saying is that I mean I feel like from an outsider to this situation .
Speaker 2I can see that you like that . You felt like you need to call each and every one of them and tell them , like she's divorced , we're free , we can do what we want . But to me it's so clear and obvious that you were free and could do whatever you want , even before she was divorced .
Speaker 1I mean I guess , yeah , if we would have like Not one of the church there .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean there's freedom , and well , you know I mean I tried that with me .
Speaker 1She said you know , I've been going to my dad's church my whole life . My most time that I enjoyed church was when I was in South Carolina because of what my dad and I love my dad , but it's just different . And she tried to get me to go to another church and I said I can't go to another church . We're doing the Cairo's because Cairo's was in the church building right .
Speaker 2So , in other words , I think , for whatever reason , she wanted .
Speaker 1There's so much to this , but I didn't like you felt obligated to them . For what ?
Speaker 2I don't know because you I mean to a lot of things , but you obviously felt obligated because you also want to let them know when you were free .
Speaker 1And it was right , because yeah , because they were making me feel like I was doing something wrong right and you felt , you felt the need to oblige what they believed you needed to do well , okay , pause that . Yeah , if that was one of my kids getting involved with somebody that was still married , I Would be something . No , we're not doing that . I don't care if he's 33 . We're not doing that . I mean , you're gonna .
Speaker 2You're gonna Get hurt , you're gonna get me as a 33 year old if I was 33 . I mean , it's one thing when I'm 18 , is nothing when I'm 33 . Yeah , my parents would have told me that I would have been like okay , and then I would just gone behind their back like you did .
Speaker 1It's not around your dad , your parents . You had a different relationship with them . They , they let you be free .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's true .
Speaker 1But that was not the case with Shauna .
Speaker 2Mm-hmm . She , she was Beholding to their opinions and I think you are like wired to you , like want to do the right thing .
Speaker 1I don't know you want to do it's right . Well , and that's where it was my mindset was that she was supposed to be my wife , we were supposed to get married . Y'all married her off to somebody else , so that's y'all's fault , so deal with it . That was how I thought at that time . Mm-hmm but I mean Now . I mean it's easy for me to advise people that are an unhealthy relationship now , because I've been through one right .
Speaker 1I know the pain and how hard it is and how hard it is to break free , but this was an unhealthy relationship that would only worsen , right . So I had this fantasy we were gonna get married September the 13th 2006 , not 13th 14 , whatever the date was September something . 2006 was seven years to the day that we met . So that was my plan . Okay , so that was what we're doing .
Speaker 2But I mean , I feel like it's you know good to say here that , like relationships , just they are very complicated and there's so many Dynamics and layers you know to this as there is in a lot of situations but and they're hard to navigate for everyone for the people involved , I mean for the people on the outskirts which , in this case , in my opinion , was her family , but they were kind of in the inskirts but but . But they're just it there . It's difficult and it's . It can get real messy .
Speaker 1It was .
Speaker 2So what's your advice to someone ? You said you . You said you can counsel someone going through a Unhealthy relationship . It would how do you know it's unhealthy .
Speaker 1The red flags and all the things going on . I mean , are you asking me to advise myself ?
Speaker 2Well , maybe yourself , if I was myself .
Speaker 1I would say you need to , you need to run , get away from that . It's unhealthy , it's not good and it wasn't . It was um , she was using me and I was using her and it was mostly emotional . You know we never had sex but because you know I was doing no sex to marriage thing , but I it was just . What are you asking I'm getting ?
Speaker 2I know I'm just like . I felt like this is a topic Everyone can relate to . We've all been there like unhealthy relationship and it's chaos and messy and so it took me a year to get In this .
Speaker 1It took me about five years to get out of it .
Speaker 2Wow , okay , so that to me is like the kicker right . Yeah , that's motivated .
Speaker 1We . We came back from that trip in Atlanta . We had a great trip . She met my family , my dad's . I only took her initially to meet the good side . I wasn't ready for to meet Aunt Pat's . He just yet .
Speaker 1So we had a good time . You know , great time came back . Now we're free , and then it was that whole summer was one argument after another screaming , hollering , squealing tires Just it was a mess . It was a mess like whatever I thought was my promised land turned into a disaster , but I couldn't leave her alone . At the same time , you know , we break up every week , get back together and my friends , you know we ended up isolating all of our friends and my mom's , like I'm tired , I'm tired , don't , don't tell me nothing , I won't hear it . I'm tired of hearing all this stuff .
Speaker 1Eventually I did take her to Phoenix City . She hated it Because you know , we went to man pass his house and they're all smoking cigarettes in the little house and talking about people and doing their little gossip and stuff and Nobody on that side of my family liked her . I remember my Aunt Patsy looked at her and she's like , well , she's got a cute face and I didn't take it as a cut with Shawn dead . And then she and I was like , oh yeah , that was a , that was a cut . But then , you know , my cousin Lisa , she was like a sister to me growing up .
Speaker 1I was like what do you think ? What do you think ? And she was like well , I don't want hurt your feelings . And I was like what do you mean ? She's like JJ ain't nobody that nice , they ain't nobody that nice . So they never really accepted her and then she would never go to Phoenix City after that . And then after that she started hating my mom and then Tried to make up with her family . We kind of did , but the damage had already been done . So it was like Pain kind of after that . But we couldn't leave each other alone .
Speaker 2It's a struggle .
Speaker 1It sounds like yeah , it wasn't good and I then you know I was starting my business and that Upturned my life and my finances and everything , and you know she was with me through all that .
Speaker 2Well , it's kind of like when you believe something so hard , like you did in the beginning , believe that was , it's like you're , you got to do Whatever it takes to make . Yeah .
Speaker 1Well , I thought she was the only one come to fruition .
Speaker 1She's supposed to be my wife and you know I had you go back to the end of the last season where I wrote my vision . I had like six pages written out . For this is my wife and she read . I made her read it and I made her read it . But she was . We were in an argument one time . She started crying and she was like that's not me , like I believe that Jesus gave you those words , but that's not me . I mean , the words on that paper are not mean sellets for , for our captive audience .
Speaker 2Well , what ? Were some of the things that that that vision said about your wife . I mean to give people an example .
Speaker 1It was just the kind like she will be strong around weeks . She'll be an encourager . She'll be . I'd have to read it .
Speaker 2But she would just describing the attributes of a woman that was gonna be your wife .
Speaker 1But when she read it she told she said that's not me . That is not me . I know you think it's me , I want it to be me , but it's not me . It kind of got co-dependent for me because I could feel her pain and I'm like Babe , you can get over this , like you don't have to stay stuck , like look at me , I went to I mean , I've been in prison , like your future is not determined by your past , and I would buy her boot . I mean I went and bought her the whole Joyce Meyer emotional healing package . I think I spent $300 . I wasn't free now I was out . I bought her all that stuff , gave it to her . I Actually sat down and wrote out a whole lesson on regretting self pity and and oh my gosh , I did . Nobody was like it was for her , like trying to like read it , like understand , and you know I use that , that's in my keys , but I originally wrote it for her .
Speaker 1Like you gotta get over this . Like you can't , you can't . But it became like co-dependent Right , like I was . If she was okay , I was okay . If she wasn't okay , then I wasn't okay .
Speaker 1Yeah and then it started caused me problems at work . And you know , because if we were in an argument I would tell Tony , I need to go home , I just need to go somewhere . And there were a lot of little , this little stuff . I remember One night she was going to the superior grill with some friends from work to watch one of her coworkers play the guitar and I was like you , you ain't going there , that's , that's a meat market like , and it is , or they called it the meat market . And we got in a big argument over that and I Told her if you go there , if you do that , I'm done with you . And so she was like dug her heels in and so what do you think I did I ?
Speaker 2Don't know what did you do ?
Speaker 1it up there , made a big deal in front of her coworkers and it just stuff like that . But I was obsessed . Oh , it became an obsession with her and it was not good and it did a lot of damage .
Speaker 1Yeah but in the end it also Brought me a lot of healing because through the process of being relationship with her , I learned like my insecurities and I was able to deal with things that I didn't know were there , like I never knew . I was jealous , but going through that process , I started back , going back through counseling , like trying to deal with my issues , and I Did and in a way , if I hadn't have been through that relationship with her , I I never would have got out of the gate with you because I was messed up in that kind of relationship . I was messed up but through the process of that , jesus like Helped me deal with my issues . Yeah , and not that I'm perfect now I'm , I know that , I know I'm not , but you would not have been able to date me then well , different seasons , I think , bring up different things that we need to deal with , and this is just an example I had .
Speaker 2I did have some abuse in my childhood .
Speaker 2I was abused by , sexually abused by a guy in our church , and I remember the counselor telling me when I started going to counseling , when all came out , she said , okay , in different seasons of life , different things . Like you're good now I feel like you know , you're healthy in a good place , you've dealt with all the things . But when , for example , you start dating , probably some things are gonna come up that you're gonna need to talk through and unpack . But that's good , but it wouldn't , and she's like , and when you get married , when that time comes , when you have kids , it's gonna bring up things that it's impossible to deal with right now .
Speaker 2But , just to be aware that a different season will kind of judge things up . That Can be done , so it sounds like . Well , I was caught off guard by that .
Speaker 1Yeah , I've been through so much counseling , had so much healing , so much . I almost thought like man , I'm , I'm , I'm starting over and I wasn't starting over .
Speaker 2No , it's just a season that brought up a new layer of things , but it was dealing with .
Speaker 1Yeah intimate relationship right . And it brought out a lot of and I'm ashamed of some of the ways that I talked to her . I mean , I never like it's physical . There's more like just words right . I'm ashamed and I've asked her forgiveness , and she did a lot of damage to me too , don't get me wrong , but in the end it was a good process , for I'm glad I didn't have to go through that with my wife . Yeah cuz you probably never would forgive me for some of that stuff .
Speaker 2Well , I probably .
Speaker 1That's true . Now you wouldn't date me . You would have said , yeah , he's interesting , but he's got angry shoes . I'm gonna leave you , but uh it's been good .
Speaker 2So next week I'm excited cuz we're gonna talk about what was happening at the same time .
Speaker 1It's crazy starting Kyros , and it would have been . It would have been impossible for me to tell these At the same time .
Speaker 1Yeah , but you need , we need this as the , as the like , the Foundation yeah because everything that I was going on here with her family Colored everything that we were doing with Kyros , because Steve was my business partner , and then Lenora and Jeremy . I'd given them a 10% stake in my business because they were helping me and it was just awkward to the max Everyday and rough . But we'll get into that in the next one .
Speaker 2All right , this has been fun and exciting .
Speaker 1All right and just for the record , I'm so glad that Jesus brought me Hayley Jones . Thanks for listening , guys . Hey guys , thanks so much for tuning in to the straight out of prison podcast . For more exclusive content , head over to our website , team Jones .
Speaker 2Yes , you can subscribe by clicking on the become a patron button and that's gonna get you access to our for real . Real , which is very different than the highlight real Some very juicy content there good stuff , or you can look us up on Facebook and Instagram straight out of prison Podcasts yes , that takes the story to a whole new level , where you can see some of the people that James talks about in his story and see some of the places that he's been . I've been loving it and you know prison recipes .
Speaker 1Yeah , but thanks , we'll see you soon guys .
Speaker 2Thanks , bye , bye , bye , bye , bye you .