Reflecting on Life's Journey: From Prison to Reconnections and Emotional Healing

Imagine encountering your cousin and co-defendant after 30 years, a man who has been wrestling with the justice system and desperately needs a change. This is exactly what happened to me, James, and in this poignant episode, I share my advice to him, wisdom sculpted by my own experiences and the guidance of my mentor, Steve Longenecker. 

Haley and I reveal the transformative impact the Straight Outta Prison podcast has had, not just on us, but on our listeners too. The power of shared vulnerability has worked its magic, encouraging a deeper, more profound connection with our audience. We also touch upon my past relationship with Shana, and discuss the importance of respecting the privacy of those we mention in our podcast. Our friend and podcast patron, Rhonda Ruckel, joins us and shares how the stories about Haley's  parents have moved her, a testament to the unique bond that storytelling can create.

We revisit my memories of Leonardo's, the restaurant that was a critical part of my life, and its owner, Tony Falletta, who was very much a father figure. I share the nostalgic emotions that engulfed me during my recent visit to the place, now a barbecue joint. Shifting gears, we dive into my journey of reconnecting with my biological father through a unique marketing strategy, leading up to an unexpected reunion with my half-brothers. We conclude by unveiling our ideas for the next season, discussing the potential of narrating other people's stories. Get ready for a rollercoaster of emotions, from laughter to tears, as we recount these captivating tales. Tune in now!

Transcript

Speaker 1: 5:03

Well, hey guys, thanks for tuning in to the Straight Out of Prison podcast. My name is James K Jinger. This is my story.

Speaker 2: 5:09

And this is Hailey Jones, and this is his story that has now become a part of my story.

Speaker 1: 5:14

Girl. We got a story together.

Speaker 2: 5:17

Yes, we do, and it keeps on going, baby, and I love it, I love it.

Speaker 1: 5:22

So this is the season three recap. So we have made it through three seasons. This is the like 34th episode that we have recorded and it just blows my mind that people are still like leaning in and excited.

Speaker 2: 5:40

And yeah, I just I really feel like this is I feel like I don't want to wear people out with this, but I, just since starting this podcast, it just has ignited something, I think, in both of us individually but also together just like excited about yes, it's been fun, I've been telling your story, but I feel like our eyes are already on being excited about using this platform to tell other people's stories.

Speaker 1: 6:06

Oh, I can't wait, I can't wait. And you know, today, actually just today I got a free request from my co-defendant who has been in prison in Georgia. He just got a prison I will not technically like out of prison, he's at work release in Georgia and I thought, wow.

Speaker 2: 6:25

Well, your original co defendant.

Speaker 1: 6:26

Yeah, well, he's my cousin when it all started. Yeah, and he's my cousin too.

Speaker 2: 6:30

So OK, so you got a friend request from Facebook, so that means that he is out of prison.

Speaker 1: 6:35

He's at work, ok, narrow it down. He's at work, release, and he's got a phone so he can OK, you know, do this thing. And I was just like, hey, because I'm so happy that you're doing something different. And I was trying. And he was like, yeah, I'm getting old, it's time to stop doing this. So, but it really just touched me. I was like maybe we should get him on here and tell his story, because his story is very different from my story, because he's been out of prison for the last 30 years.

Speaker 2: 7:03

That's what I was going to say. Like you really kind of took steps and kept stepping away from that life and all the things you're doing and he has kind of gone, like you said, in and out of prison for the last three years.

Speaker 1: 7:16

Well, I think his thing is. He's rooted and grounded in his hometown, phoenix City, where we grew up, and if you go back to I think it was season two, the last couple episodes when we were doing the pro plan, steve was like he was the one you know I committed to helping. I committed to allow him to help me form a plan to get out of prison and his first thing was you can't go home to Mama Niam and I was like what he was like.

Speaker 1: 7:43

Everybody got the plan to go home to Mama Niam and Mama Niam, but never works out. He said you got to do something different and I was like I'm going home to Mama or Granny, I'm going somewhere, I'm going to be where my family is.

Speaker 2: 7:55

Well, it's kind of neat. So I have to say, like it's nighttime, All our kids are in bed. And as we were walking down here to record, you told me that you said I just got, I just got the message from my cousin.

Speaker 1: 8:06

He's out of prison and it's not just that, I felt like I heard something different in his voice, this time Like he's he's sick and tired of how old is he now, let's, I mean, he's all the same age. No, we're about a year. We're about a year and two months apart. So I'm I'm 49, I just turned 49. So who would be 48?

Speaker 2: 8:27

Well, I can see he's like pushing 50. It's like Cal. When is it going to? Something's got to give.

Speaker 1: 8:33

Yeah, well, when he got out in 2010, I mean, I think I've already covered this, but he was doing good for two or three years. But you don't go back to the same environment, you just don't. It's a hard thing, but it's, it's the right thing to give someone that advice and that was the advice that I got from Steven, from others, when I was making my pro plan. And you know, if you go back to what was it?

Speaker 1: 8:55

Season three, episode four, the unraveling I was, every day I would wake up in the morning like what am I doing in Birmingham, alabama, with all this mess falling apart around me, like when I can just go home? I can go to my mom's house and go to Matt's shoes and go to my Pat's, I can go to Atlanta, my granny. And it took every, every ounce of I don't know if it was courage or just determination that almost stick it out. I figured out. And then I had a wonderful mentor and Steve Longenacker, because he would always challenge me like you can't give up this real life, this real life. You got to figure it out. Yeah, push through.

Speaker 2: 9:34

Well, I feel like that's pretty sound advice. I mean not I mean for you, obviously, yes, like you're saying, coming out of prison and doing some different, but I feel like it's pretty sound advice for anybody. I mean, I'm thinking of myself right now for like, okay, you want something different, you got to do something different. You got to go back to the same thing that was familiar. That was the road that led you to the place you didn't want to be.

Speaker 1: 9:57

And that was probably the biggest. That's my biggest advice to him and that was actually what I told him. I messaged him and said I'm so glad your work released. I hope you're doing something different. And I just said you know, the best advice I was ever given was not to go home to Phoenix City.

Speaker 2: 10:10

Okay. So big question Did you tell him about the podcast? I did.

Speaker 1: 10:15

I said I don't know if you know or not. My wife and I started a podcast and you're in the first couple of episodes.

Speaker 2: 10:21

Wow, I mean, I feel like he's kind of threaded through that whole beginning part, like he is.

Speaker 1: 10:28

It was our story.

Speaker 2: 10:29

I would be so curious. Okay, this is like, like the first three or four.

Speaker 1: 10:33

That was our story, wasn't just my story, it's his story, right?

Speaker 2: 10:37

And I think it would be interesting if he does end up listening to it, like it would be so interesting to get his thoughts on it.

Speaker 1: 10:44

I would love to tell his story. Yeah, you know, cause his story? You know, we in 1994, we our paths diverted, he went one way or another, and other than just a slight reconciliation in 2010, we haven't. Our paths have never really crossed again.

Speaker 2: 11:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:03

And I'd love to tell a story.

Speaker 2: 11:05

Okay, so let's just recap. So when you got out of prison, what year was that and what month and year was?

Speaker 1: 11:12

that September in 1999.

Speaker 2: 11:14

So 1999, and then, what year did you go and find your dad?

Speaker 1: 11:19

It was July of 2007. So about seven years.

Speaker 2: 11:22

So this whole span of this season was about seven years.

Speaker 1: 11:25

Yeah, and it's interesting because the previous season was about seven years season two yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:31

And then season one was about four years, so Right, so that was about seven years, like you got out, which was like huge obviously.

Speaker 1: 11:39

It was a crazy decade.

Speaker 2: 11:40

Coming to a new place, like I mean then rambling the Leonardo's, like making a lot of money, then starting your own business.

Speaker 1: 11:48

And then even broke. I mean so many ups and downs and this speaks to I think this speaks to and you kind of taught me this.

Speaker 2: 11:56

You say, oh gosh, so many people asked me to come to like, come and tell my testimony to help you know my story. Yeah, it's so true just in this, and even in what's going to come in season four, you always say, well, what story do you want to hear? What story you want to know, because it's not just a story about being in prison and getting out of prison. It's the story of um, I guess, like succeeding and failing.

Speaker 1: 12:23

A lot of failing.

Speaker 2: 12:24

Like the cycle that again and again, which I think is true for everybody. I mean we succeed, and we fail and some things I don't know.

Speaker 1: 12:32

I just we're all in the process all the time.

Speaker 2: 12:35

Right, okay, so where do we start? We have had lots of questions from people, lots of commentary throughout this season, so where do you want to start with that?

Speaker 1: 12:44

I don't know you want to go like chronologically with the questions, or I think the free at last was the episode one. That was when I got out. And then I talked about, you know, like the world victory church and all the you know the release of the grease train and you know my time in Birmingham and all that stuff. I got a lot of feedback from that, from people who are actually not closely connected to me but in that Church I guess who were in that church at the time.

Speaker 1: 13:13

Yeah, and one in particular Scott. I won't say his last name, but he was like I never thought that you saw yourself as a token compact, and I was like, but I did, I mean so he messaged that to you after.

Speaker 2: 13:27

Okay, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1: 13:28

And they've been. He's a fan. And then his son, chris, he's a huge fan. He's always sending me messages, just seeing it through my lens. Like they said, they had a different lens.

Speaker 2: 15:00

They had a lens of me come out of prison, come to church doing all things, and then you know that, which is so part really fast which is so true and I think it's interesting and I, I mean, I've a little bit thought of it, but not until you just said that that people that knew you at that time and are part of your life at that time, they're hearing you tell the story from your perspective. And they were there, I mean a lot of time, maybe not all the time, but that their lens and perspective was totally different.

Speaker 3: 15:31

Well, they, had a different, I mean cause that's true for like everybody in all stories.

Speaker 1: 15:35

They have a different reference point.

Speaker 2: 15:37

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 15:38

And then in that, the first couple episodes of season three, I got my first hate mail, or hate text.

Speaker 2: 15:44

Oh, remind me what that was.

Speaker 1: 15:46

It was someone that went to that church that got upset because I said something, I didn't say a name and it was interesting.

Speaker 2: 15:55

People are like trying to wreck their brains.

Speaker 1: 15:58

It was. I said something about a lady that said that she's told her to buy me a suit. I don't remember that.

Speaker 2: 16:04

Oh, and that she wanted a little some, some.

Speaker 1: 16:08

That was my perception going forward. But she wrote me a vicious text so I mean I didn't even respond. I'm like I'm not going to respond. I mean this is 20 plus years ago. I mean this was my. I'm trying to tell the story from my perspective and I, with each episode, I go through just a time of like trying to put myself back there. How I felt right, the way I perceived it, right or wrong. You?

Speaker 2: 16:39

know I may be wrong about that, Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 16:42

But I can see how they could rub people the wrong way.

Speaker 2: 16:44

Right. But I mean, like you said, and I've heard this said before, and we have an apart from this podcast that, like no one can argue with your story.

Speaker 1: 16:51

No, I mean that's where you were and how you thought it is how you're perceived, and so and I don't feel like I'm like in this straight out prison podcast.

Speaker 1: 16:59

I'm not like trying to make other people look bad and make myself look good, because I feel like I'm being vulnerable and saying the mistakes that I made and things that I learned because that's I learned a long time ago Like people don't care about your successes I mean they do, they celebrate them. But if you want to connect with people, you tell people where you failed and you automatically have credibility. And really I am blown away and amazed that since we've started straight up prison podcast, that just countless amounts of people one of my neighbor that would just sit down and just pour their heart out to you and tell you their whole story, right, the good, bad and the ugly and it's like I realized this because I'm being vulnerable than they feel like they can be vulnerable. Yeah, and that is where like real, like change and you know that, like God's grace and everything, that's where it happens Like we can be honest and you know, you know my life's been messed up and just amazes me.

Speaker 2: 17:58

Yeah, that has been. I think we've talked about that, probably more than anything in the fact that people that we don't know very well, or don't know at all. I'm shocked have come up and just like been just ready to like share their whole story, the good, the bad, the ugly, that would never be a thing. Probably, or I don't know, they just wouldn't do it if they hadn't heard you share.

Speaker 1: 18:26

Yeah, it like opens the door, yeah, but that has changed me in a way where I want to keep being vulnerable, because that's how you can connect with people and build relationships. And you know, it's that old CS Lewis quote where the greatest I'm going to slaughter this, but he basically said that moment when you realize that somebody else says what you too. I thought it was only me. Yeah. Cause we all have things. We'll have struggles, we all have a past, we'll have things, we have secrets and you know all things. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:56

But when you're like vulnerable enough to let them out with you know how to do it publicly, but like with another person, yeah, that's where like true healing, I believe, absolutely Begins.

Speaker 2: 19:07

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 19:09

Okay. Where are we at?

Speaker 2: 19:10

So we had a question from worth Wells, who's a Patreon. Thank you, worth, and I think your name is awesome, by the way.

Speaker 1: 19:19

Patron, not a patron. Oh, patriot, that makes me subscribe, okay.

Speaker 2: 19:24

Anyway, yeah, he subscribes and supports us and anyway, he asked from I don't remember which, maybe it was seven, but it was in regards to relationship with the girlfriend Shana, who you thought you're going to marry.

Speaker 1: 19:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:38

That if she knew about the podcast, or his or her family knew about the podcast which is Steve, and you know people that really were such an intimate part of your life and part of your journey he asked if they knew about it.

Speaker 1: 19:52

Well, I responded to him, but we could respond on here. Yeah, I don't really have a lot of contact with her anymore. She's married, she has a beautiful family, she's doing her, she's living her best life and that's wonderful. But you know, after I married you, she unfriended me on Facebook.

Speaker 2: 20:11

So I wish y'all could see my face right now.

Speaker 1: 20:13

I would say if your ex, if your ex unfriends you on social media, you win. Oh, stop, so no, I mean, that's the thing. But I don't have a relationship with her, so I didn't feel like I needed to like, ask her permission. Our own purpose did not share any of like her last name or any of that stuff.

Speaker 1: 20:34

If you go back through this season, I didn't share Tonya's last name. I didn't share J. I didn't share anybody's last name. I did share Steve's last name only because he'd already made himself public as part of my story, like he was in several news articles. He was in several magazine articles and I felt like he had already made himself public as part of my story. So I felt like I could share his last name, but I didn't share anybody else's. But, honestly, we'll cover this in season four. But when we decided in 2015 to shut down Kairos for good like we're done, we're moving on I feel like that ended my relationship with them. So I don't. I really. I love them, I respect them. There's been several funerals I've been to that. I connect with them.

Speaker 2: 21:18

Well, when you say that ended your relationship with them, I do think it's interesting for you to say, because I've never heard you say that, like who is them?

Speaker 1: 21:28

Like Steve and Lenora and Tonya and Jeremy and and why do you feel like that ended your relationship?

Speaker 2: 21:34

This is something we never talked about, so this is deep. This deep.

Speaker 1: 21:37

It was like there was so much. If you go back to episode eight, the Kairos Cafe, like how we got involved in all the emeshemen we had with Kairos and the business and all stuff, it was uh, we'll cover this in season four. But just to make a long story short, like they didn't want me to end that, they wanted me to keep doing the same thing forever. And after we got married in 2013, I started going to church the Highlands, which was my first like no, no, because I stopped going to Grayson Truth. I felt like I needed some freedom, I needed to break free, I needed to. I needed something else and beyond that, we'll cover this in season four.

Speaker 1: 22:20

I felt like that was what Jesus told me to do. So that's what I did. So that was the beginning of that. But then, when I closed down Kairos for good in 2015, it was like it ended everything we had been through and I I still, from the bottom of my heart, I love Steve and I appreciate him and I'm grateful for his influence in my life, but something got twisted with us and it needed to end.

Speaker 2: 22:48

So, from your standpoint, and only your standpoint, was it a bitter ending or was it just like, okay this, this chapter is closed for me, you doing it for me, for you.

Speaker 1: 23:00

No, I knew it was over, it was time.

Speaker 2: 23:02

No, but that's not what I asked. I asked if it was like a bitter ending or if it was just like okay, the season is finished.

Speaker 1: 23:07

No, I wasn't bitter at all. Okay, I mean, I feel I still feel sorrow and sadness and I wish that it didn't have to be like that.

Speaker 2: 23:15

You feel sorrow and sadness because you're not still in a relationship with him.

Speaker 1: 23:19

Yeah, yeah, and you know, if we see each other, we're friendly. What was the last thing? We went to a funeral or something.

Speaker 2: 23:25

You have a family member of them. We went to a funeral, yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:28

And you know I was like he was very outgoing, spoke positively about me, but it was this. At the same time, it was like I knew something was different, like it just for us going forward. It can never be the same.

Speaker 2: 23:45

Which is so interesting. I don't know if we mentioned this before, but that's not on my part?

Speaker 1: 23:49

I mean, it's not on my part.

Speaker 2: 23:50

What's not on your part.

Speaker 1: 23:51

Like it not being the same, because I feel like I can get over anything I can, but it's like just too much water into the bridge. It goes back to I believe it was episode eight of this season, season three, where the lawyer, when I put all my stock in Steve's name, he looked at me and said don't do this, this is not going to work out. It's going to work out. It's going to him badly. And I said well, this is what we're doing. You know, I found out I can't get these loans because I'm on parole. And he said well, I'm your lawyer, it's my job to advise you, and I advise you not to do this. This is not going to end well.

Speaker 1: 24:30

And I was like well, this is what we're doing, I'm paying you, so you need to drop the papers, do what I say. But that's what it was then. But now he was right. He was right and you know, we reconnected with Tanya when you were pregnant with the boys Because, like a year before, she had given birth to twins and they were in the NICU for gosh longer than our boys. But our boys were in the NICU for what?

Speaker 2: 25:01

two weeks, yeah two or three weeks, yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:04

Well, we'll cover this one and get there, but it was traumatic, it was hard. But she reached out and she asked if she could come see, and you know, we reconnected.

Speaker 2: 25:13

She was so very kind. I feel like I need to.

Speaker 1: 25:17

Well, her, she understood what she was going through Right, Because she had been through it herself and it was just like God, I love Tanya. But then, you know, we tried to stay connected after that and I think I remember I sent her a text it might have been six months later and I was like I love you and I'm so thankful for your presence in my life and you have added so much value to me and I hate it that we decided to go into business together and ruin that because there's so much water under the bridge. But I mean, it is what it is and it's just when it's time to move on. It's time to move on. But you know, I have no ill feelings. I have no. I have love and respect for them and to this day I mean I've told you this time and time again Steve was the man who filled a father role in helping me transition from a boy to a man, so I love him.

Speaker 2: 26:10

And I have to say, like as your wife now and this is like we're getting deep in this now but as your wife, I just I want to like honor him and just say how much I value. Absolutely how much he's spoken to your life and bring you to that point because, truly, without his presence, without you know the council and all the things, like I, just I'm not sure that I would have been married to you. I don't mean that enough, but I just feel like.

Speaker 1: 26:40

I'm gonna say this and this is deep, it might be too deep for this podcast, but when I was going through counseling Gordon D'Albi this guy that I was going through stuff he said that you have a voice inside of you that you hear talking to you and it's your father's voice and that's primarily how God speaks to you. It's through your father's voice and I had this negative, critical. You know you're never enough, you're never good enough voice. Up until that time, that was my dad's voice. Like you know, he was always fussing at me or telling me like making something so hard. James Keith Jones voice.

Speaker 2: 27:25

Yes, my James Keith Jones senior.

Speaker 1: 27:28

I'm James Keith Jones Right yeah, but I actually wrote this in a birthday card for Steve when he turned 50. I said somehow and I was happened, but I don't hear that voice anymore. I hear your voice and it's a calm, reassuring, fatherly Everything's going to be okay, you can figure this out, you can push through and he was so like overcome with emotion, like he couldn't even talk for like 10 minutes, but I was like I wasn't trying to make you cry, I was just saying thank you, like thank you for being that person for me. So he was that person for me and he will always be that person. That's a gift, yeah, it is for sure, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 28:07

So but as far as like a relationship is like there's too much water under the bridge, we just just move on, and I wish it was different, but it's not. And it's kind of like with my dad. You know, I wish I had a relationship with my dad, but he doesn't really pursue relationships with anybody in his family.

Speaker 2: 28:28

So I feel like I feel like there's so much here we could like unpack, and maybe we'll later, so let's I mean, but it's it's a great.

Speaker 1: 28:36

Back to season three.

Speaker 2: 28:37

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 28:39

Let's read the cap.

Speaker 2: 28:40

So okay, so we had um. There was Eric from Pennsylvania. Yes. And he wrote or texts that I cannot remember which, but tell us about Eric.

Speaker 1: 28:54

So in I think it was episode eight, where it's on my cars cafe I was so frustrated with the process of opening a restaurant that there was like a drain hidden that I had to uncover. And I'm not a drain in the floor drain in the kitchen.

Speaker 1: 29:13

And I had to like chisel it out at a tile and I was you know, I'm not good.

Speaker 1: 29:18

I mean, I can paint stuff, I can like make stuff better, but like deep construction, I'm not good at that. But I was, uh, on the floor dirty, like picking away at this tile trying to uncover this drain, and I got so frustrated and so mad and I was like beating I had a pitch to fit, basically and I was beaten on the floor and I was like I just all I wanted to do was cook some chicken. And he happened to be welcomed by at the time and like caught me in the middle of my fit and I told that story in in episode eight and he texted me and he was like I don't remember that, I remember, I remember you being like he or like, just super like, and then I remember it. And then when I he said I don't remember it that way. So when I explained it to him I said probably the reason why I remember it is because Steve retold that story so many times. And he was like oh yeah, I do remember that.

Speaker 2: 30:20

So that was good, that's kind of fun. Yeah, I mean, that's another like going back to how we remember things differently because we're all in different places. Yeah, okay so Rhonda Ruckel and I will like. Okay so, rhonda and this, just like she's a patron. She's a patron and it just warms my heart. I cannot even tell you how much it warms my heart, I can't explain you. Both my parents are in heaven. Rhonda Ruckel and Steve Ruckel are where my parents, best friends for gosh man 40 forever years and they would.

Speaker 2: 30:59

I mean, this is kind of neat. It's a little bit of a sidetrack, but they knew each other since they were first married before they had kids, and they would go to a beach house every year, the same beach house, this and I'm looking at a picture of that now in our room. There's a picture of my dad and the other three guys and they would go to beach house every year and the only rule was it was no kids but only nursing babies.

Speaker 2: 31:26

So if you if they just had a baby and the baby was nursing like those kids were allowed. The babies were allowed, but not a kids, and they were. So I mean, I feel like this is such a foreign idea and concept. Nowadays they're the same four couples every year for 40 years and they never miss a year, not once.

Speaker 1: 31:49

That's beautiful. And then, after your dad died, when I knew your mom, she went every year.

Speaker 2: 31:54

Yes, my mom went without my dad and they were just their best friends. And they didn't start as best friends, but they just grew into and they actually lived in all different states many of the times, but anyway she's become a patron. Well, she's been listening and I didn't know she'd been listening and she became a patron and she said that it was just so neat to hear like me tell stories and also, when I referenced my mom and dad, it just like, oh, it makes her warm for heart or whatever.

Speaker 1: 32:26

Well, she also said that was funny. I read that message, you shared it with me. She said well, james really doesn't hold anything back. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:36

And I mean Rhonda and Steve just have a wealth of experience and knowledge and ministry out of ministry and business. They live in Virginia Beach right now and they're just a gift to me and I was just really neat to get messages and realize like someone like that is listening and feels like she's getting a piece of my mom and dad and by her telling me I'm getting a piece of my mom and dad. So beautiful. That's kind of neat. Okay, what you got.

Speaker 1: 33:01

What do we got from here? So what was your favorite episode? I know what you're going to say the name of Colorado when I'm filming by those.

Speaker 2: 33:07

Well, okay, yes, that is okay, I would say, but a close second and this is so funny is the episode I don't remember which that we really like unpacked your relationship with Shawna.

Speaker 1: 33:18

Top of the mountain.

Speaker 2: 33:19

Top of the mountain.

Speaker 1: 33:20

Why is that? I don't know.

Speaker 2: 33:22

It is something like this Feels scandalous I mean in the most innocent ways but like to unpack your relationship and you've been said after we finished recording that you're like I don't know if I could have done that with you and your ex.

Speaker 1: 33:37

No, I don't think I could have heard all the details of your, because you almost married a Swedish guy.

Speaker 2: 33:42

Right, I was actually engaged to a Swedish guy.

Speaker 1: 33:46

The Swedish man with the big mulling on his face. I mean I was kind of the runaway bride, which is going to be unpacked in the next in the next season.

Speaker 2: 33:53

But he was like I don't know if I could have like gone through that, which maybe you have the opportunity to.

Speaker 1: 33:57

I will, I just don't want, I don't want extra details.

Speaker 2: 34:01

But it was just. It's just fascinating to me, I think, because we all have, and how intense those emotions and feelings can be and I could feel that honestly.

Speaker 1: 34:10

Well, I really struggled with that episode because I'm telling about my love for her and I was deeply like in love with her.

Speaker 2: 34:17

I could feel that.

Speaker 1: 34:18

But I'm sitting across the table from my beautiful wife. I love more.

Speaker 2: 34:25

I also know that.

Speaker 1: 34:28

And it was just weird to take that Like. It was almost like if you would have said let's don't do this, I would have said okay.

Speaker 2: 34:35

I think, in our time and experience, though, is that I know and can feel, and it's like this profound sense of it's a different kind of love. Yeah, it was more of a fantasy type. And the older you get you realize you can just see and understand when you have this like passionate. Passionate kind of like needy, desperate Desperate is a probably good word like desperate love. Yeah, opposed to a calm like peaceful knowing.

Speaker 1: 35:06

One of the things I noted about you when we started dating it was not that it was not the like I'm gonna die if I don't see Haley, but I coined a phrase during that season when we're dating and we'll talk about this the next season. It was like a joyful anticipation. It wasn't like crazy, it wasn't like I'm gonna die, I just want to die for you. But it was real and it was, I think, the way that God or Dan's us to you, phone, love and. But you know she was coming out of a divorce, she was in a horrible situation. She was wounded and broken and just like I don't know. I Many times I thought about her as like a, like a little bird that you would find that had a broken wing. And no, I'm serious.

Speaker 1: 35:54

I was kind of sad, but yeah she was using a desperate in bad place, but at the same time I was too, because yeah. I had. I was past 30 and I was like is there something wrong with me? Like the kids in the youth group were getting married. Like what's wrong with me? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:13

I mean I went on dates, I tried to connect and I just could. I mean there was nobody for me like. And you know just the way I grew up, I knew I wasn't gonna be involved in like a bitter or Like marriage that I didn't want to be in.

Speaker 2: 36:28

I couldn't do that.

Speaker 1: 36:29

So I was a little desperate, so we're both desperate, but on the other side I feel like that was part of the process for her and it was part of the process for me and in the end it was a good thing, even though there was a lot of pain under the bridge.

Speaker 2: 36:47

So this is the like ultimate cheese train. But like. This is why country music is popular. It's a multi-million billion dollar industry. But like I feel like the only song that comes to mind when we're talking about this is God bless the broken road. Let me straight to you.

Speaker 1: 37:06

But it's true and I feel like it's true for all of us we have these things season three. I was into all that, you know I probably the first episode of season four will find out that that road was not a good road and it turned into a bitter, painful road.

Speaker 2: 37:25

I mean, I don't give it all the way, but my point is is I feel like it's kind of important to have that perspective of, like you know, there's gonna be heartache, there's gonna be things that aren't good, there's gonna be like wrong choices, all the things yeah but, like when you said, if you're following Jesus and keep taking steps like it's gonna.

Speaker 1: 37:45

It's good. The thing that fascinates me the most is that you almost got it married. You almost got married to the blonde sweetest guy with the big mole on his face stop, that is so mean. He did have a big, but I know what you're doing, right now, anyways, the sweetest man that told you had to eat your fork upside down.

Speaker 2: 38:07

Okay, anyway, we're gonna get to that.

Speaker 1: 38:09

And then I almost married and I almost married Shona, but you know, we both figured out this is not the path, this is not right and If you had a married him or I would have married her we would never. There would be no team Jones, there'd be no Lou the may, there'd be no world grant, there'd be no Jesus, james, and it just it fascinates me, like yeah, like God always knows, you know, let you do your fantasies and get it out of the way.

Speaker 2: 38:40

Well, I've always been so interested I mean, just the last episode we're recorded with finding your biological dad, and I mean I was even before I met you. I was always fascinated with this, how it was explained to me, about how DNA and how, if you don't have exactly that, that Exact person would not be. It would be a different person, yes, like our kids like you just said, who they are.

Speaker 2: 39:04

Exactly who they are, they would not be even if your mom had have had the thing with the great guy, which is, like, seems like this, like dramatic, you know, drama thing.

Speaker 3: 39:19

Which it was at the time, yeah, but obviously it was.

Speaker 2: 39:22

There was goodness to come out of it and it was Purposed for you and for me and for them. I mean, to me that's just such a like neat it is me.

Speaker 1: 39:35

I mean, I think, out of all our kids, well, lula is a little, she's got a little Greek in her. I Mean, I tease with you. You know, my kids are quarter Greek. I'm half Greek, they quarter great.

Speaker 1: 39:46

They are yeah but royal grant our Baby boy. He's a stud. He is a stud, but he is. He has the like, he has the same. He looks the most like means the dark hair, green eyes, and it's just Just makes me cry, looking at him like I Don't know, I'm saying never mind, I don't know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 40:09

Okay, so Okay, I don't can't remember what I'm gonna go.

Speaker 1: 40:13

Let's look at the Leonardo's episode was the the most like talked about. I got more feedback from that, from customers, people that I knew that, people that didn't even know that were customers of Leonardo's, like I Mean we ran into people at church like the lady that runs the kids, like she was like Leonardo's.

Speaker 2: 40:34

I love Tony, I love Leonardo's in the yeast buns, I mean even just like we haven't even talked about it, and now I want Italian.

Speaker 1: 40:42

So yeah, no, there was nothing like Leonardo's. That was a very special place. But Dana, tony's daughter, she wanted to know like a Leonardo's, let me know so I can listen, and and we're tech. We were texting back and forth and she was like I'm so nervous.

Speaker 2: 41:03

I'm nervous about what you're gonna say oh was she nervous.

Speaker 1: 41:05

you're gonna say something bad, or Well, we had a little bit of conflict, but it was like you and her personally. Yeah, but it was like it was like conflict that you would have had with Hobie, your brother. It's just like that's just those things happen.

Speaker 1: 41:19

Yeah but I was like, don't be nervous, it's all good. I mean, I'm telling the story. It was, I mean, that was a crucial part of my life, right, and After the episode air, she listened to it. She was very, you know, grateful for the way I talked about her dad, I mean. But her dad, I mean Tony Fuleta, was like a father to me. He Gosh even to this day like things that we're doing in our business now, like he, so many things that he taught me that you know just how to embrace life and to tell stories and you know just live. And but, uh, she Like brought up stories that I didn't remember and was like remember this and remember that, remember this, remember that. And I was like, dang, maybe you need to be on the recap or maybe when you do a Leonardo's recap, or Leonardo's reunion like episode, because there was so much life that happened in that little space of Italian restaurant.

Speaker 1: 42:18

goodness, I mean seven years of my life. That was as long as I was in prison.

Speaker 1: 42:22

Yeah and Recently I was in the South, the Birmingham area, and I was riding. I think I rode by and looked at my first house about. I just want to see my plants. Of course you did Make sure they're taking care of. But then I was like I think I'll ride by Leonardo's and look, and I realized all that that it had been turned to a barbecue place most original barbecue. So I was like it was last time. I was like why could go in here and eat? And I went in. When was this?

Speaker 1: 42:57

It was probably about a year ago, okay, and I went in, I had lunch and the vibe in there was like redneck fabulous.

Speaker 2: 43:08

No, I mean your redneck terms.

Speaker 1: 43:10

Well, no, they had the. The dining room was filled with picnic tables so it was just like I had my lunch. A my lunch is. I love Mo's original barbecue. It's awesome, it's good barbecue. But I was just like. I live so much life in this building and you know, I went in the bathroom. It was like just remembering, like if you in the men's room, if you went in the bathroom and you used to urinal, there was a deer that Tony had hanging up that would talk to you, he was in dollars and you know he was.

Speaker 1: 43:44

He was like right wing, like he was Republican. You know he and I remember, during the I think it was the 2008 Presidential campaign Like he went in with a Sharpie and wrote on the like the thing where you mashed to let the air come out. He was like mash here for Hillary's latest message. Hot air.

Speaker 1: 44:07

But I just it was just, it was crazy that you know Just all the life that we and if you went into the women's bathroom in Leonardo's, he had heated seats for the women, not for the men's toilet seat yeah it was this thing like?

Speaker 1: 44:21

everything's gotta be great, we're gonna do something special. And I remember when I painted the bathrooms like we read, model the bathrooms he had a lot of like like Catholic, like religious art and he had a picture of Mary holding Jesus and I hung it in the bathroom and I remember that boo who ran the office, was so upset with me you don't put Jesus in the bathroom, you put Jesus in the bathroom. So I was like it's a painting. I mean, those are white people in Jesus, it's Jewish anyway. So that's not really that, but just like, just all the memories and just just flooded me. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 44:57

That's really neat. I think the most touching message I've gotten this season was from Chris. He was the son of A couple that I went to World Victory Church with the release, the grease, you know they were part of that, but then they weren't a part of it because they figured it out. But I think I referenced this in Episode three. I took about my housewarming and all that. Okay they decided I have a housewarming party for me. Yeah and his mom gave me her childhood the table that her family had they grew up with.

Speaker 2: 45:36

Mentioned that in the episode.

Speaker 1: 45:37

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 45:37

Okay, yeah, I think I remember that but she also gave me like coffee tables and end tables that she grew up with and it was like a. It was like this cherry wood with glass, but then there were shadow boxes in it and she's like you can do it everyone with this, but like my mom, put our like our like baby shoes and stuff in it and you know, I kept those for Years and years before I got rid of them. I think it was after I started Kairos, when I had to downsize. But he sent me a message and I saw it on Facebook and it said I'm so sad. And I was like, oh, I wonder what I said that made him so sad. Then I opened the message and he was like I'm so sad that the season three is over. Like we've been, we've been binging, oh, and so that was cool.

Speaker 2: 46:22

Yeah, okay. So I feel like we need to talk about to your cousin Cassandra, who has been listening, who's also a patron. I know, I can't even say the patron patron. Yeah, okay, so she's been listening.

Speaker 1: 46:37

Why don't you say she's a subscriber?

Speaker 2: 46:39

Oh, subscriber. Okay. So and she wrote you a message that was so funny to me talking about During the last episode finding your like biological dad and if your granny knew, and Realizing she always knew and you are her favorite. Okay so what did Cassandra say?

Speaker 1: 47:01

She basically admitted that I always knew your granny's favorite and that's okay. But she prefaced that with let me know that she was my granddaddy's favorite, which is true. Granddaddy always had a sweet spot for her, and she said she always knew that that my dad was not my biological father but she maybe she overheard an adult conversation that she didn't understand and then she said that she never saw me as not family Like it's just weird. It's a weird dynamic and then it's. I bet she's so interested in the podcast because I feel like Cassandra is my cousin and we weren't close to where kids but we became Probably on my dad's side. She's the closest one I'm to that I can connect with the most as far as cousins. She's the most like my granny as far as like keeping traditions, like Memories and you know all the things so remind me which cousin like, how she your cousin, so she was your my dad's younger brother, roger.

Speaker 1: 48:09

Okay, he had three kids. Renee Cassandra was second and boomer that was right. She was a second one, but she was as an adult. She's the most like my granny, like she does the traditions, everything that granny taught us to do, like she's gonna do it. And I mean even Like when we were planning our wedding your mom was, you know. We spent 17 hours at the florist and I was so aggravated all that slight exaggeration, but yes well, it was a long day at the florist Ficken.

Speaker 1: 48:43

I was like just do some flowers, like figured out. But uh, my granny, I remember when my aunt always got married, my granny, a tradition on her side of the family was that the groom buys the flowers for the bride. And I told your mom that and she was like that's not a thing. And I was like yes, it is, that's what we're doing. So you know, order your flowers, do they want to, but I'm gonna have somebody do haze flowers. And you know had a good friend, viola, who was my bouquet very time, your bouquet, yeah. But my granny taught me that and you know, if she told me that was what it's supposed to be. So it's just me.

Speaker 1: 49:22

But Cassandra's like that, like she, I Mean, I remember we were, we were like unraveling my granny's Home and she was going live, my aunt clean this, like we're going through. You know granny was big on you know, you can have this, you have that, you have this. And Cassandra wanted the Love letters that my granddaddy wrote granny Like she had him categorized from because he was in the Air Force there's the army first, and then it turned the Air Force, but he was away a lot. So he wrote a lot of letters and she wanted those letters and I Didn't want the letters, but I wanted other things, like you know, as a trunk and you know, just Think like she's sentimental, like me.

Speaker 2: 50:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 50:04

I think she's like the most like me, so she's. I really appreciate her, just the way she's reached out to me and encouraged me and tell me to keep going and, you know, give me a lot of ad-abois for right. You know, sharing the vulnerable parts and the hard parts, but uh, I Don't know at the end of the day. I Struggled with episode 10 where we talked about me finding my biological father, because I talk about that to other people but I don't talk about that much with my family.

Speaker 1: 50:33

Yeah especially the Jones side, because it seems weird. You know it seems weird to talk about. You know, I'm not really a Jones.

Speaker 2: 50:42

Well, you say you talk about it with other people, but I don't even think you do a lot. I feel like I do a lot more talking with other people about.

Speaker 1: 50:48

Well, I will talk about that with people in Birmingham, but I don't really. I remember the first time I shared that with my mom's sister, brenda, and my cousins that's actually my co-defendants family Like my sister, my Aunt Brenda like was freaking out like it's not true and I was like it's true, like it's true, I don't care what you say, cue my eye roll.

Speaker 2: 51:09

Well, okay, so I think that's a good segue into and and I've had several people ask me, like via email, patrons and friends, about your mom and what she thinks. And it's interesting because you, I know, I mean even before we recorded this or even before the idea of a podcast was in our hearts or minds, you were very concerned about just honoring her and why don't everyone hurt her?

Speaker 2: 51:39

right, but I mean especially in this season when there's I mean when you talked about finding your dad, yes, but I mean really throughout, like you want to talk about that a little bit like Well there are thoughts on that.

Speaker 1: 51:52

There are two stories that mama did not want me to ever share, and one of them was my brother, because that's her greatest pain you know that he got ripped away from her and that you know she allowed it to happen. Yeah, and there's a deep part of me that will never understand how you can let that happen, because if anybody try to take one of my kids and go anywhere, I would move heaven and earth nuclear bombs, you know. Whatever I need to do I'm gonna have my kids.

Speaker 1: 52:24

Yeah so that was a great area of pain for her that she didn't want like made public. Right, and then the truth about my dad like Initially she didn't want it made public, but she's made peace with that. It is what it is. I remember when I started Kairos cafe you know there's a lot of try to do marketing stuff and I made a coupon one time, you know, like a dollar off your lunch or whatever, and I put my face. I mean I was in a weird place. Then I was like into like superimposing faces on other stuff. Definitely my computer a weird place. No, it was fun, like I would, I don't know, made a lot started with birthday cards in life?

Speaker 1: 53:16

Yes, I don't do that anymore, but I mean, it was still fun, like you know.

Speaker 2: 53:20

Like, if you're making it sound, like it was some deep thing, like I was in a weird place.

Speaker 1: 53:26

No, I mean it was weird, but it was like I had this it was called Microsoft picture it and you could like wipe somebody else's face out and put somebody else's face and somebody else's body and it was like kind of like the I Don't know it was what I was doing there. I don't do anymore, but I made a coupon for a dollar off and my face. My face didn't look right in George Washington's body. It just didn't look right. So I got the $50 bill and President Grant that's on the $50 bill. I superimposed my face into his face and it was like that works, like I could, I could work with President Grant and I put that in there. But when I put some Signage on the windows, that was what I used that picture of President Grant's body off the $50 bill, with my face.

Speaker 2: 54:20

We were definitely in a weird place.

Speaker 1: 54:23

But he had like white hair and I remember she was like you look like that man from Denver and but it's like somehow your biological somehow that helped her make peace with that and she did I mean great also.

Speaker 1: 54:39

And she still don't like to talk about that. But I mean it is what I mean. I won't let her not talk about. It is what it is like. It is what it is. Let's just let's move on from that. So she's made peace with that, but it is. I got several after we aired the episode 10 and I've got several messages was like how did your mom like deal with that? And she dealt with it. I think she honestly really wanted me to find out, but didn't want me, didn't want it to be a thing, but she was kind of excited.

Speaker 2: 55:16

Yeah, I mean, I feel like anytime that truth comes to the surface it can be painful, but it can also just trick or ignite freedom on some level, and especially for her. That, like I mean, especially in terms of that that was I mean, like you said, it is what it is at your dad and look at you now. There's purpose in everything.

Speaker 1: 55:42

I mean seriously.

Speaker 2: 55:43

So I mean that's so this leads us to. We had talked about it. I think it was the last episode of letter, like once you found your dad, your biological questions I needed and he wrote you a letter like. Trigger my memory a little bit about what that was.

Speaker 1: 56:00

We connected on the phone, we couldn't really talk because his English was so broken.

Speaker 2: 56:05

Then we did.

Speaker 1: 56:05

MSM messenger went back and forth and I said I have a lot of questions that I need answered.

Speaker 2: 56:09

Yes, okay.

Speaker 1: 56:10

And he asked me to write him a letter and write all down and he would answer. He said I'll answer every question.

Speaker 2: 56:16

Okay, yes, so this so we. You actually found the letter.

Speaker 1: 56:19

I haven't.

Speaker 2: 56:20

I've actually never heard this letter either, so you're going to read this letter of him answering your questions, right?

Speaker 1: 56:27

If you want.

Speaker 2: 56:29

Oh, we, yeah, I just want. Okay, I want.

Speaker 1: 56:33

So this was July the 28th 2007. It was about three weeks after I went to Denver and I connected with him and the blonde Greek guy who I can't remember his name. He went back to Greece, sat down with my dad and my two half brothers and his wife and explained to them everything and gave them the things that I brought to Denver. I have some regret in this, because I received a ton of pictures from this like deal, but it was through MSM messenger and somehow I lost them.

Speaker 2: 57:07

Like I don't have the pictures anymore.

Speaker 1: 57:09

Yeah, but one of them was my brother, nico's, who was like weeping looking at a picture of me, because we kind of looked them up Like the youngest one cost us. We don't look anything like I call him big head, like you got a big old head. I don't know where your head came from, but it must have come from your mom's side. But my half brother Nico's, like you can tell, we're brothers, like we have the same body, we have the same hairline head from the top same beard everything.

Speaker 1: 57:42

And even you know, like my son, judah, he has my body. Like you wouldn't think he was my son because he's blonde, headed in blue, as he looks just like you. Yeah, but he has like my little short body and when I was researching this and I was looking at pictures of Nico's it was like we have the same body. He's got Judas body Like this is weird, and you know he's on the other side of the planet. But uh, he sent me this letter. I just answered my question. It says Jim Paris. That was his American name, right?

Speaker 1: 58:16

That was the name they changed him to when he came through immigration. But then it says his Greek name is Demetrios Paris. Keep up with us. Uh, vula, athens, greece. You know all that stuff. So it says hello James. I was born August 1st 1948 in a place called Namia. Remember Hercules?

Speaker 2: 58:35

Okay, pause. So you had sent him a ton of questions, right? I wanted answers. Wait but you had sent him a ton of questions and this letter is answering the questions that you had sent right.

Speaker 1: 58:45

Yeah, okay. So he says he was born in a place called Namia. Remember Hercules? And I'm like Hercules is a fantasy, bro, but you know Greeks and the mythology, like they, they like really subscribe to all the Greek mythology, right, and I try to talk to my brother, uh Casus, about like the Greek Orthodox and you know, about Jesus and all the stuff, and he was like I don't do church. And so I was like what do you mean? You don't do church? And he was like when I was a kid I called the priest in a fuck shake.

Speaker 2: 59:21

This is what he said. What is that? I feel I hesitate to even say a fuck shake.

Speaker 1: 59:26

That's what he said what is a fuck shake? Apparently there were two priests like doing the nasty man to man, mental man, but but no, I had that same like what is a fuck shake? I've never heard of that Like. I thought it was like a translation problem, but he was like no, they were doing. I caught him in a car and I've never been interested in church. So anyways, that's the side story.

Speaker 1: 59:50

He was born in 1948 in a place called Namia, in Corinthos, which I think is like was where the Corinthian church in the Bible was. Yeah, it's a town not far from Athens and Peloponnesos. My father's name was Nick and my mother's name was Anastasia. They both died some years ago. I have a sister, katie. She's two years older than me. I went to America the first time in 1966. My father was there before me. I met your mother in 1971, but we were very young. She was a good and pretty girl. After so many years, I still wonder why we got lost. She has all the answers. I would like to know too. So, basically, he was like she knows, I don't know nothing.

Speaker 2: 1:00:36

I don't know why you may know, like, how they got disconnected. Yeah, one has happened, so I came back to Greece in 1981.

Speaker 1: 1:00:41

At 1976, I got married with Eve and we stayed three years in Denver in November 1978. So we got a son named Nicos. When we came back to Greece, we got divorced after two years. Since then, nicos lives in Thessalonica another biblical town which this was freaking me out 500, 500 kilometers far from Athens. We meet once or twice a year In 1987, I got married again with Debbie on May 26, 1987. Costas was born. We live in Vula. It's a place near Athens. Our house is 100 millimeters far from the city. Our house is 100 millimeters far from the sea.

Speaker 1: 1:01:20

At exclamation point, james, I want you to know that I'm really happy to find out about you. Even though so many years have passed, I consider you my family. Nicos and Costas are very happy to know that they have another brother, and Debbie is very happy for us too. We want to meet you very much. You're the only son that looks like me. The other two look like their mothers.

Speaker 1: 1:01:43

I saw your girlfriends at the photos and she looks very pretty. Dinos told me you're a very nice couple. What does she say about our story? From now on, we must always stay in touch, love and kisses your dad. So I mean he told me the things that I needed to know.

Speaker 1: 1:02:01

But at the end of the day I realized I'm not Greek, I'm American, I'm James Keith Jones Jr. And if it was just my dad I would be able to disconnect from that and connect to this. But because of my grandparents you know, my granny, sarah Jones, and my granddaddy, james Cecil Jones, james C Jones I just realized I'm a Jones, like I mean, I want to know the truth, I want to know this part of my history and where I come from. But at the end of the day, you know, there's a scripture in the songs where God says he places you in the family that you're supposed to be in, and the family that I was supposed to be in was the Jones family. So it really I didn't fully get what I thought I was supposed to get out of that, but it did bring peace to me. Well it's.

Speaker 2: 1:02:53

I mean, I agree with everything you're saying, but there's also an element that I have that I just believe, and I don't know why. I believe it on Honestly, but it just feels like somewhere in my core. I know it and Know what.

Speaker 2: 1:03:08

That is just everything you said is true, but also that that your origin, your biological origin, was there, that there's some kind of and I don't even think we're going to know it or I'm not going to know it this side of heaven, but there's something being weaved into that story of the purpose of the. Something being weaved into that story of the purpose of you say, okay, I have family in like the biblical times and your biological dad is Greek, and I don't know what or how, but it just feels like there's purpose in that somehow.

Speaker 1: 1:03:43

Yeah, you know I've never been, but I still want to go. Yeah, but it is. It's not gonna make me either way.

Speaker 2: 1:03:51

Right, and then that is like it's not, like you haven't made that a part of your identity, which I think is healthy. But also I think it's just kind of neat to know that, I mean, there's some kind of purpose. We may never know the side of heaven, but I believe there is one yeah of how it all came to be and you know the origin. And now, if Hold on, dimitri Paris capopoulos.

Speaker 1: 1:04:15

Jim Paris.

Speaker 2: 1:04:16

Jim Paris, but his like Biological makeup made you who you are not just me.

Speaker 1: 1:04:24

I mean, you look at my kids.

Speaker 2: 1:04:25

That's what I'm saying. I mean it. He made like you and you had to be how you are to make our kids who aren't running, my kids.

Speaker 1: 1:04:33

I think the thing that fascinates me the most is that he had two sons. We had three sons, but he had two sons and one he didn't know about, and Nikos and Costas. They both look like their mamas, and then I'm like his spitting image. It's just crazy. I mean, there's something weird about that yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:04:52

I mean the same eyes, the same, everything is weird that is weird. But at the end of the day, that brought me peace and a closure to that was that my name is James K Jones. I'm not gonna be James Paris capopoulos Paris keep up with us.

Speaker 2: 1:05:10

I mean, just that is the mouthful to just but you never know, like and this is kind of fun to think about I've actually never said this to you, which is good to me.

Speaker 1: 1:05:19

Now, like if one of our kids just get fascinated with a story and like decide they're gonna name one of their kids like Paris or like you know like I found it, it would just be fun, I would have no problem, you know well, you know, when we got married in 2013, we had a cross that had, like, my family names on it and your family names, and we put it together at our ceremony and I put it was like our, our names. Our mothers made names, our fathers, grandmothers. It was like four names. So you got like four names when you're as you got like John Tobart or Gil and what's that one, whatever. But I added Paris capopoulos to mine like an extra, like I got an extra name on mine.

Speaker 2: 1:06:05

I love that. I mean cuz it's that's who I am part, and it's part of logic, it's part of their heritage, yeah, I mean, my babies are quarter Greeks, yeah. Okay, so we're running out of time. So what's next season, for season four is gonna be the last season of our story.

Speaker 1: 1:06:21

Well, we say that, but we don't know, I don't know. It was where I go from here. So what is next? We just need to keep telling a story. I mean in this. This season is in in 2007. We met in 2012. There was a lot of water under the bridge that happened between that and then there was lots that happened after that. I really don't want to stop doing this straight out of prison podcasts. I love what we're doing here. I would like you to tell other people's stories. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:06:48

I mean, there's so many like mr Gilbert, or even my co-defendant. I definitely want to do Probably a separate podcast, but like the cover house murders. You know he was my cell partner for the last few years I was in prison. Fascinating story, a lot of secrets, and you know Like there was a movie made about that, but they said he killed his parents because of money and he didn't. You know, and I know, I know the intimate details of that. I would love to do that.

Speaker 2: 1:07:19

I guess the bottom line is something's coming. Oh yeah, we're not chosen the exact like next path.

Speaker 1: 1:07:25

There's several different Opportunities we got to keep going right. But one thing I've figured out during this season was we got to do the ads, even though I don't want to do the ads.

Speaker 2: 1:07:37

Okay, let me just pause their way, he means because that was a quick little transition in conversation. Is that okay? So from the beginning, james is like I don't want any like sponsors or ads, meaning like people who want to advertise on this podcast and in the last month or so James has Relinquished and said okay, fine, we can let people like, that's on our, that's how you like Fund it.

Speaker 2: 1:08:05

Well, okay, so here's the bottom line. Is that I know we've we Spoke about this in the very beginning of today, of tonight, when we started recording is that I think both of us have realized Like this is something that we feel like?

Speaker 1: 1:08:19

We can keep doing it.

Speaker 2: 1:08:20

Well, hold on, let me talk is that it's just more than just telling a story. It just we really feel like this is like something more purpose to do. Yeah, and we feel like it's uncovered gifts that we both have and just purpose and we're really excited about it, and so we are Wanting to find ways that obviously we need to provide for our family, and so if we feel like this is our purpose, we need to find ways that we can do both in one.

Speaker 1: 1:08:48

We need to play the game like it is and the game is, if you want to. I mean we have a lot invested in this, the podcast stuff, I mean finite financially in time and everything you have to play the game, and the game is ads and so we're, we're gonna be seeing something rolling out pretty quickly here. But this is what I've learned from listen other podcasts. If you don't hear that, you just hit the 30 seconds.

Speaker 2: 1:09:19

What are you saying, james? Like people want to advertise or stuff that people can hear it.

Speaker 1: 1:09:24

I'm just keeping around. I would rather have sponsors than have ads.

Speaker 2: 1:09:28

Well, that's just the same thing. It's another word for it.

Speaker 1: 1:09:30

Well, anyways, we got to figure out a way to keep going. I mean, bottom line, I'm learning. You know, if you're gonna Be in a world, you got to play the game. So I don't really like ads, but let's do it.

Speaker 2: 1:09:46

Yeah, no business and another thing we're excited about doing is that we have now launched these workshops that we're doing. So there they are, ceu Certified, which is CEU stands for continuing education units. A lot of like nurses, realtors, whatever a lot of businesses you have to have these CE credits and so we're offering that and workshops that are an hour and a half. We include lunch and we're going through the keys. That really ties into our teaching companion to this straight out of prison podcast in the gap.

Speaker 1: 1:10:20

That's just name narrow the gap.

Speaker 2: 1:10:22

So we're that's another thing we're super excited about.

Speaker 1: 1:10:25

Well, so we're working on that, but I just realized I had one fact check. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:10:31

One of the followers of show. His name is Michael, I won't say his last name, he, it was just said. I think it was yesterday. He sent me a message and he said in Whatever season I think it was episode nine where I got arrested he said you said that you got arrested in Dell County, which was Dothan, but that's Houston County, dell County is the Ozark area and I and he also said I'm enjoying the podcast, I love it, blah, blah, all things. So I need to like clarify that I did not have any charges in Dell County. My charges were in Houston County, which was Dothan, and I was trying to figure out why did I say Dell County, why not even do that? But it's because We've been going through this thing about we want to do a podcast with Culverhouse murder story and my mind was there and I've been studying that and going through all that and that was Dale County.

Speaker 2: 1:11:26

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:11:27

So he was from Aronson so it was Dale County, so that I guess that's why I said Dale County. But it was correction. I Did not get arrested in Dale County, I got arrested in Houston County. So this Chris Know, his name is Michael.

Speaker 2: 1:11:40

Oh, michael. Thank you, michael.

Speaker 1: 1:11:42

Yeah, he helped us.

Speaker 2: 1:11:44

Yeah, I have to say like James's memory is insanely amazing, but obviously sometimes it's like I mean it's amazing, you can remember the things you remember Well.

Speaker 1: 1:11:55

I think the reason why I was thinking Dale County was because I had spent like six hours that day like researching the Culverhouse murders and because I definitely I don't. I don't think we'll do that on straight at a prison. I think we'll do that as a separate podcast. I really won't tell the story. I feel like I'm actually compelled that I need, I'm supposed to tell that story because there's so many secrets, so many like deep, like Coverups and you live with him for two years and really heard his side and from his perspective which, from what you've told me, hasn't been told.

Speaker 1: 1:12:33

No, well, he started in 1998, sorry, 1998 or nice, and I can't remember the year, but he started Meeting with somebody that was writing a true crime book about you know what really happened from your perspective and his aunt, who was his mom's sister, the one if you go back to I guess that would be season two, but she starts in in Bible studies, as mom writ wrote in her handwriting. She asked him not to do it. She said please, you know, don't do this, like you took my sister from me and now you're trying to take her character. And he just ended it Because you know there's a lot of that.

Speaker 2: 1:13:21

Was a small town, that's another thing, though I don't understand how him telling it takes her character, especially Since well, I mean, there's so much.

Speaker 1: 1:13:29

There were a lot of secrets, there were a lot of. They were a prominent, very prominent family. You know, if you, if you go to the University of Alabama and you see Culver house school of business, that's his family, I mean but I feel like the excitement for us is to tell it through the redemptive lens. Oh yeah, the redemption but I mean, but when you have like that kind of cloud, that kind of like Influence, like you don't tell that.

Speaker 1: 1:13:56

Yeah and so there were a lot of secrets, a lot of stuff that nobody ever knew. But Through the process of him being, he slept in a bunk over me for two plus years. He didn't just sit down and tell me the story all at once, but I would ask questions and I didn't. I Mean I've treated lightly. I want to ask them questions because this is, this is rough.

Speaker 2: 1:14:19

Like, I mean, I feel like you're you're not saying the fact that y'all became like very, very good friends.

Speaker 1: 1:14:26

I don't know that. There's another man on the planet that I've ever been closer to then Jason Hunter Cobb house, like he was my, he was my big brother, he was someone still to this day. I mean I love him and you can look at it like you're a murderer and he is. I mean he was, but you don't kill your family for no reason.

Speaker 1: 1:14:52

Mm-hmm so and it wasn't about money, had nothing to do with money. I mean, there was a money that came in to play after that it. That story had nothing to do with money. It was more about abuse and power control and he he was. It was awful, but I just feel like that story needs to be told.

Speaker 2: 1:15:15

So, all that to be said, these are things that are coming for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:15:19

Yeah, I'm gonna tell a story.

Speaker 2: 1:15:20

Yeah and Alright.

Speaker 1: 1:15:23

Well, I know we need to close if you want to know, like Google coverhouse murders and just see what happens, because there's not a lot out there. Yeah but I feel like I have a lot of intimate details that I want. I feel like the story needs to be told. Yeah, freedom Tell it.

Speaker 2: 1:15:41

We're gonna tell it.

Speaker 1: 1:15:43

Um. Is there anything else we can talk about?

Speaker 2: 1:15:46

No, I think we covered all we can at this time. But, season four it's coming.

Speaker 1: 1:15:52

So I'm gonna be ready coming soon. Stay tuned.

Speaker 2: 1:15:55

All right.

Speaker 1: 1:15:56

We appreciate you, guys. Thank you All. Right Bye, hey guys. Thanks so much for tuning in to the straight out of prison podcast. For more Exclusive content, head over to our website. Team Jonesco slash podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:16:11

Yes, you can subscribe by clicking on the become a Patron button and that's gonna get you access to our for real real, which is very different than the highlight real.

Speaker 1: 1:16:21

Some very juicy content there good stuff, or you can look us up on Facebook and Instagram Straight out of prison Podcasts.

Speaker 2: 1:16:29

Yes, that takes the story to a whole new level, where you can see some of the people that James talks about in his story and see some of the places that he's been. I've been loving it, and you were prison recipes.

Speaker 1: 1:16:41

Yeah, thanks, we'll see you soon guys.

Speaker 2: 1:16:44

Thanks, bye, bye-bye you.