Welcome all of you wine and true crime lovers. I'm Brandi and I'm Chris and this is texas wine and true crime. Thank you for being here tonight, friends, for this week's episode the disappearance of amy bradley. Hey, chris hey brandy tonight we are sipping on a little um texas envy a 2022 vermentino from our friends over at cristoval winery in cristoval texas.
Speaker 2:We did a live show there not that long ago it was seven months ago, six, seven more or less, yeah um such a fine winery, such a fun event.
Speaker 1:We um beautiful, beautiful winery. Oh my, my gosh. So beautiful and um. So yeah we are now. We decided to take some wine back with us from the show, so we are sipping on that tonight.
Speaker 2:Yes, nice and crisp and refreshing, a little effervescent.
Speaker 1:Perfect for this nice, cool New Mexico night.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I agree, love it All right. So, um, chris, we are here to talk about the disappearance of Amy Bradley.
Speaker 2:We are.
Speaker 1:Now, a documentary just came out on Netflix about this case. Yes, I've talked to you about this case.
Speaker 2:We have talked.
Speaker 1:We've talked way before this documentary even came out. I mean, this happened back in 1998. So a long time. You know, Amy was 23 when she went missing on the Royal Caribbean cruise that she was taking with her family. So the first thing I want to say is we're not going to summarize the documentary. People should go watch it.
Speaker 2:I would agree.
Speaker 1:And form your own opinions about um what you see here and we certainly have ours and we have ours, and I think it. These kind of cases are very difficult because you and I also want to recognize that, um, the feeling and the look on the bradley's faces in this, it's like it happened for them yesterday.
Speaker 2:I would agree.
Speaker 1:And, um, we know that pain well and I will just say that you, you know, there's a thing called hope. We hold onto in life and and sometimes it's a defense mechanism for our own minds to be able to move on and process life. As we grieve, and everyone does it differently and everybody, you know, handles things differently. But I will say that I hope you know I'm glad the Bradleys are still together.
Speaker 1:Chris, you and I know losing a child, the odds are stacked against you for many, many reasons, but this couple has stayed together. Chris, you and I know losing a child, the odds are stacked against you for many, many reasons, but this couple of stay together. They continue to. You know, you know their son, who you know. They had another child at home. I mean, you know these kids are were in their 20s and when, when they went on this cruise. So you know, it doesn't matter how old Amy was, it's, they never came home with their baby and that's how they look at this and feel and I just want to say that it man just looking in their faces. They, they live with this sting and the not knowing every single day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they keep up the fight too.
Speaker 1:They do. And you know, and again, who are we right? When I say we, I mean the sleuths, the people on the outside us watching the news, us watching these documentaries, not actually living this. And then you have investigators, fbi people who have been working this case, trying to find answers for this family. So you know, I hope that they have answers one day. I do Whatever that might be, I just hope and wish them all peace of mind. Okay, so let's talk about what happens on this Royal Caribbean cruise. March 24th 1998 is the time she's last seen and disappears. So family is going on a vacation. The parents were given a trip, a cruise vacation.
Speaker 2:They won it through their company.
Speaker 1:Through their company, they're bringing the kids. They're all excited they're going to be sharing one room Now. Chris, we have both been on cruises. I love going on them. You not so much. You enjoyed it. I would say you enjoyed the first one, the first one, I did, yes, the second one. You kind of were a little bit more of like now. I know why I don't come on Now. I know why.
Speaker 2:The first, you know however long of years, I even made the claim that I don't want to travel anywhere unless it's on a big ship.
Speaker 1:You did After the first one.
Speaker 2:Second one not so much. Yeah, I'm not super hot on those, it's just.
Speaker 1:You're just not.
Speaker 2:No, this isn't about cruises and what's good or bad no-transcript that stuff.
Speaker 1:Now I did say to you after seeing this documentary I don't know if cruise lines would still do that today. I feel like if this happened now, in 2025, or at least I hope, I hope after Amy's case multiple cases that have happened on cruise lines I hope they would make an announcement at seven o'clock in the morning and not worrying about disturbing the others. But they have a business to run, right, everybody has a business to run, and so Royal Caribbean, you know, they, they, they, they had their position on this. The family had their position and there has, you know, the bradley's took them to court in 1999. Those records are open and public, so you can read about what happened in these, these cases. But you had the family who was very upset that they would not take action immediately, which well, I 100 agree right how many people um go missing on a cruise ship?
Speaker 2:very few, not missing. I mean that you just somebody's not where you think they are oh well, that happens, that's what I mean as far as announcements so you know right, so you know I can.
Speaker 1:And this is a huge ship.
Speaker 2:I think the yeah, I mean the.
Speaker 1:Bigger than normal ships, I would say.
Speaker 2:They should have. But from that one perspective of this probably happens quite a bit where somebody can't find other members of the party. That's right. They probably, you know, want to give them opportunity. I think they even told them, if you can go, look for them. They did Because I mean let's be honest If somebody's missing from a room, the first inclination is that there's not been any sort of foul play or something bad happen. They might, just it's a big ship.
Speaker 1:Well, you have a lot of people and most I mean and there's people walking around and they're going to notice some things, especially if there's nefarious actions happening outside of the rooms I'm not talking about in the rooms, I'm talking about outside, in the hallway there's always people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I was going to say even just from my experience as well too, there's always a lot of people. People still move about until pretty late at night.
Speaker 1:Wee hours of the morning. Yeah, just because I know some will sleep on the lawn chairs outside until they make them go up.
Speaker 2:I think they finally showed up like five or 6. Am 2,200 people or so on this cruise. So I mean it is a lot of people. And so yeah, you are correct.
Speaker 1:All right. So the Bradleys are on vacation. They've been on the boat a few days. Over those few days they have partied, they've been going to dinner, they've been doing everything you do on a cruise line, right? Going to the shows, dancing, going to the parties at night. I mean, you're rarely in your room on a cruise, so you're out and about. They've always got something for you to do.
Speaker 1:So along the way we have stops to different ports. Now, this is the reason you liked the first cruise is because you're like, wow, we can get here, you know, to this place in the Caribbean for very quickly without having to deal with any airports, right, so it is. It is the um, the, the going to the ports is a is a very big piece of why people go on cruises, okay, and a lot of them don't want to fly and mess with it. So they they might dock in, you know, they might go in Puerto Rico, or they might go to Florida, or they go out of Galveston. So, depending on where you live in, the easiest port to start at is where is where people usually go. So on this trip they are going through Aruba and into Curacao, going into the wee hours of the morning when Amy goes missing. Okay, so Curacao is going to be the next stop port. Now there's one.
Speaker 1:There's a few things that I thought about. When people, when the boats, are going into port, the first thing I thought about is they're going much slower than they are at night, because at night they're trying to get to the next port, so they kind of hit the gas a little bit at night when people are trying, when people go to sleep. That's why you always feel the rocking more at night. You feel like you can feel the boat moving more at night. So that means because when you wake up, like everyone did this morning, you're going into port. So this is what happens, so the boat slows down.
Speaker 1:So that is the one thing I did want to point out. Now I don't know exactly where they were in the water. I mean, we know by the documentary where the search party and where they were looking for Amy, which was basically coming from Aruba into Curacao. But the boat is going a little bit significantly slower. Okay, so I will say that Now she goes missing between 5.30 and 6 am, and I'm just saying that because we have no reason to believe that the father did not see her that morning at 530.
Speaker 2:That is his claim.
Speaker 1:That is his claim.
Speaker 2:That he saw her legs Sitting on the deck, not deck, I'm sorry, the balcony.
Speaker 1:The balcony and that she was safe. You know he says that in the documentary. He you know she was safe.
Speaker 2:He says he sees her legs. That yes, he does. We don't know. I mean, I don't know how you can ascertain somebody's safe, but he does see her, at least there and present.
Speaker 1:That's right. Yeah, he does, and these are his own words, by the way, and that's what he says in the documentary that he saw her legs and thought she was safe and so he didn't go out there. Tell her to, you know, I I'm sure there's a lot of thoughts that's gone through his head over these years of what he should have done, but there's no reason for us to believe he didn't see her. Okay. So if he, if he saw her something wakes him up again about right before six, I would say okay. So I'm to say 20 to 30 minutes after the first initial time he woke up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so okay, then we're talking 20 minutes. We're talking a very, very, very, very small timeline and I think we need to remember that in this case not only this case, but all cases and what do we always talk about? What makes the most sense Sometimes, sometimes it doesn't make sense, but we need to consider where they are, we need to consider the timing, we need to consider what she says when she's last seen we're going to talk about that when she was sitting with her brother on the balcony and in the fact that the last known sighting is by the father. Now in the documentary the FBI agent said the last known sighting was when the brother was sitting with her on the balcony. After that things get murky. So I don't know from an FBI's investigative perspective they didn't elaborate on this Do they question the sighting of the father?
Speaker 2:Is there some reason for them to believe?
Speaker 1:that he didn't see her, or is there something? Because that's not what they say is the last time because he saw a leg.
Speaker 2:He didn't see her and that may be why it gets murky because he didn't lay eyes on her per se. He laid eyes on a part of her body and that may be why they're just making that statement yeah because the only really confirmed last sighting is the person she was speaking with. Is what I gathered from that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I gathered too. So I thought that was an important piece in the documentary as well. But again, the dad says he saw her. No reason for us to believe he didn't and that is once at 530 is when he sees her and then something else awakens him.
Speaker 2:And if he didn't see her, then the last time she would have been seen was about close to 4 am 4 am yeah. So if he did make a mistake, then your timeline.
Speaker 1:Gets a little bit bigger, yes, but not Still short.
Speaker 2:It's still a little small for me and these people, like you said, are staying in a state room. They're up very high on the boat. They're all in the same room.
Speaker 1:I think we can pretty much eliminate the fact that we think anybody went in the room and did anything to her. So let's get that one out of the way, and I also think even exiting the room after the fact.
Speaker 2:that was one kind of stickler for me too. Still, you could do it quiet, nobody would hear you.
Speaker 1:But just um, you know that time of the morning or did the door close? And that's what he heard and awoke him like that. To me, something awoke him. Was it a scream? Was it a door closing? Was it the wind? Was it to me?
Speaker 1:you wake up like that because something you hear, something well and he also saw the sliding glass door was also a jar he did, which he says was right, and he had just been awake 20 minutes before that and the door, I assume, was closed. So who opened it? I mean you have to assume amy opened it right. So okay, sorry before we, before we dive too far into that, so let's just talk about.
Speaker 1:You know, 24 hours before again go watch the documentary, the parents kind of hone in on, like you know, noticing that staff is paying attention to her. You know, I mean I this is just the family's take on what their perception was of how people treated Amy on this cruise. But they thought that the staff was very fond of her. They thought people, you know there were certain people that were paying more attention to her. There were some photographs that the parents talk about in the documentary. You know, you take pictures at the formal night and with your family and then they put them all on the wall and you go and you know the mother says that amy's pictures were missing. You know that of that formal night and you know did someone like somebody, yeah, somebody you know, and I mean again, we don't there.
Speaker 1:It could. That could very well be true, we just don't know, right? So these are just things we're just mentioning that were mentioned by the family, that we just didn't know in in like reading case, right, these are just new things that the parents have shared with the public.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think they do allude to a theory that there's a lot of premeditation that had gone on with this. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the night before the family had gone to formal night, they had the formal dinner, they had taken pictures, they had gone and changed out of their clothes and then they were going up to the balcony party, which they called, I think, like the party under the stars. So I would just consider it more of like the rooftop of the boat. Everyone's hanging out. It's busy. This is where the parents are and amy and her brother. But parents go to bed about one o'clock. They go to their room. They tell the kids they're going back to the room.
Speaker 1:Um, amy and brad hang out. They're. You know um dancing they're.
Speaker 1:I think he said he won a limbo contest. I mean they're just hanging out. It's a cruise. That's what people do. You don't know each other. You're just dancing around with a bunch. A limbo contest, I mean they're just hanging out. It's a cruise. That's what people do. You don't know each other. You're just dancing around with a bunch of strangers. I mean it's just have. They're just having a good time. They're all drinking alcohol, you know. I mean they were having fun.
Speaker 1:And Brad says you know, he notices that she's with a group of people. He notices that the bass player. He mentions the bass player, alistair Douglas, which Yella Yella his his nickname. So you know Amy is seen and we know this because the documentary there there's a guy who's there and their company had, like, sent all their best sales people to this cruise, so they're taking video footage of these people enjoying themselves and Amy happens to be on one of the videos which again is in the documentary. So go watch it, you know. So people saw her there. Right, she was confirmed there. But we also know that she went back to her room around 3.50 in the morning, okay, 3.48.
Speaker 1:I don't remember that's my key card that's when the key card enters the room. Okay, so there's a couple of back pieces that um before we, before we kind of talk about the day of her disappearance. Um, we know now that amy had come out to her parents as as being a lesbian. Okay, she, in fact she had had at least two girlfriends before going on this cruise that she was, I would say, in love with um. One of them she pretty much grew up with and, and in the documentary one of the friends said it was very difficult for her to tell her parents. She didn't want to disappoint them. She, you know, they were all a very close family and that is incredibly difficult.
Speaker 1:No matter who you are, no matter how close your family is, it's not always easy for people to tell people in their lives about this stuff. Right? So once you get in the documentary and you see the message in the bottle and you see Amy's exact words and how she was feeling, I don't think that she was like. I think there was a little turmoil there for her. I think that she was having maybe she was young still, she was just graduated, she was getting her own apartment, she was kind. You know, now you're out, you can live the life you want to live and people have to. They either accept you or they don't, right, and so I think there was a piece of her that was ready to be like facing the world, and this was the last trip and then she's going out.
Speaker 1:So you know the whole like suicide thing. I mean I'm not buying that. I don't perceive her personality in the way that she was acting per se, that she's just going to wake up in a 20 minute span of her father seeing her and decide to jump off a cruise ship. I personally don't see that in her personality. A cruise ship I personally don't see that in her personality. In my opinion. I know there are some people, even probably in her life, that thought that it wasn't always peaches and cream for her and that some, when they heard this theory, they did kind of think about it a little bit.
Speaker 2:But I think they all stated that where she was in her life. That was not really right an option, but because, that was an unusual, but because she liked women.
Speaker 1:Are we going to believe that she went up and met up with allister douglas? Again, like I'm having a very difficult time? Okay, again, we're talking about a 20 to 30 minute timeline, no cell phones. Okay, no cell phones, no ability to talk to one another. Um, you are. You are sleeping on a balcony, okay. I mean, do we really think she's going to leave the room and go find allister douglas?
Speaker 2:I don't personally believe that because I think of those things you said. Um, she's gay, so she does not probably have any sort of? Um sexual interest. She told her brother that she didn't feel well.
Speaker 1:She also told her brother he, alistair Douglas, hit on her. Yeah, I mean and she, he did. He said she didn't make a big deal about it when he told her exactly, so she didn't.
Speaker 2:That doesn't seem like she was dancing with him right and she said she didn't feel good, so the likelihood of her going back out to you know, procure any more drinks or whatever is I find highly unlikely as well yeah, so no, I don. No, I don't. I mean certainly a suspect, because he's on video dancing with her and you know, but I don't, I just don't know.
Speaker 2:You know what that shows me, though I mean even the girls that were drinking and said on thing and that they said that he was walking with her. There still is really no confirmation of what time that is. They say it was much later, it could have been earlier. They claim the club was. I mean, it's just, I don't know. I don't see her being lured into that.
Speaker 1:But you have to remember that. Let me hold on. We're going to let's talk about. Let's talk about that for a second. Okay, because the night that Amy comes in at 10 to four, we know she had danced with Alistair Douglas that night because we just said it was caught on video. But to me, chris, a woman-.
Speaker 2:But we also don't know who else she danced with.
Speaker 1:That's right. But the fact that she's dancing with a man actually kind of tells me she probably has a lot more confidence in herself and her comfortability in who she is than to be able to do that. Or she's so intoxicated that she's just dancing with a man. But me, looking at that video, I see a girl just having a good time on a cruise.
Speaker 2:But I mean how-.
Speaker 1:I don't see anything-. That's not me that kind of goes over the line of wanting more. How?
Speaker 2:intoxicated. Do you really have to be to just change your preference sexually? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like you know, was she drugged. I mean well, I mean somebody saw her. It'd be different if she never came back.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:And then you last seen with him and then, like you would think, you know.
Speaker 1:But and we know he entered the room about the same time she did in his own, yes, his own room that's right. And again, they didn't know and people left right. There's no way to track if you've opened your door to leave because you don't use a key, a key card, to exit. So they don't know if he ever left, or if she ever.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm I'm quite sure that that people hook up with cruise employees.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 2:But I imagine that is so highly frowned upon.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's more cruise line relationships, I would say, than cruise line guest relationships.
Speaker 2:That's not going to happen and the risk of being seen going into a room.
Speaker 1:Well their job is to keep people happy and dancing and having fun, like that, literally, is kind of their job, to engage, to be at those parties. I mean they taught. I mean you've been, you've seen. I mean people listening to this are going to. Some have been on cruises and they know exactly what we're talking about, so it's not. I mean Some have been on cruises and they know exactly what we're talking about, so it's not. I mean, is it just bad for Alistair Douglas that he just happens to be seen with Amy on video, like the guy said, wrong place, wrong time, dancing with the wrong girl, and this happens?
Speaker 2:And, honestly, that was just one guy with one video camera. In this day and age, if you think, if this was to occur with people with cell phones, how much more video Cause? I mean, I guess that's. I found it kind of odd to I mean I don't know. I mean, yes, she seemed to make an impression on people, but they're, when they're interviewing the people, everybody's like oh yeah, I remember. I don't like I remember seeing her on the thing and doing the it's that I don't know I could we don't really know who saw her.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2:But some of the people like that the interview that did see her that's right like, oh, yeah, she, you know. Yeah, I recognize that girl when I saw the flyers and stuff that she was missing and I just think that, um, I can't remember one face on the cruise as I've been on so so I don't know. You know it's like did they actually see her? I?
Speaker 1:mean, you know, right, I agree.
Speaker 2:I mean, people can see all kinds of stuff. Sure, and we do hear about this as this progresses down the road about people eyewitness accounts and things like that too, that it's no different than you know, looking at a cloud and seeing a face. The cloud's not a face, but I can't think of the term for it. Your brain can make you.
Speaker 1:Like photographic memory, Not at all. It's just the way you look at rocks. Oh perception, oh your perception of something.
Speaker 2:There's a term for it, but it's no different. When you look at clouds and you see Abraham Lincoln Like, oh, that looks just the cloud's not Abraham Lincoln like dead oh, that looks just the clouds on Abraham Lincoln, but your brain just interprets it that way. So you know who knows Like. I mean we can get delve into that, but it's just um well, because all we really can talk about is who knows?
Speaker 1:because here's the thing at the end of the day, we don't know what happened to her. We can't, we don't have that answer. The parents don't have that answer.
Speaker 2:They do not so.
Speaker 1:So this tonight's episode is really just about. I really, again, it's about timeline, it's about possibility and it's really just about you know some of the, some of the pieces of evidence that I think should be kind of considered more. But, um, all right, so we're going to talk about that, but all right, chris, night before they're having fun drinking, amy enters about 10 to four around the same time that Alistair Douglas goes in his own room. Amy's brother comes in the room about 10 minutes before she does, so they both are on the balcony having a cigarette talking. She tells him about Alistair Douglas making a pass at her. Okay, um, her brother will say that she didn't like act like it was a huge deal or make a big deal of it. She just mentioned it in passing.
Speaker 1:Um, so he goes to bed. Um, at four, 30, I would say. So he goes to bed at 4.30, I would say maybe between 4 and 4.30. He's asleep, he's going to bed. He leaves her on the balcony. He tells her, you know, or she tells him she doesn't feel well and that she likes the breeze. And man, I get it. I love laying out sitting on the balcony. That breeze feels good at night. You're listening to the water, you're just laying out there. So she doesn't feel well.
Speaker 1:So we know she tells her brother that and he closes the door behind him. He says and he lays down and goes to sleep. So the next time she's seen is when the father wakes up about 530. So he wakes up, says he sees her legs on a chair, you know, or whatever, the lounge lounge chair. So she's like laying down, it looks like. So he says, okay, she's good, I'm gonna go back to bed. Something wakes him up before six and he goes back outside and he does not see his daughter. Okay, we know, there was a yellow shirt that she had on the night before that was sitting over a chair. There were a pair of that she had on the night before that was sitting over a chair.
Speaker 2:There were a pair of sandals.
Speaker 1:Birkenstocks sitting on the balcony. He says the balcony door is open about 12 to 14 inches and there is a table that had been like pushed up against.
Speaker 2:No, that was not them. The FBI saw that table. Okay, it looked like thing had been kind of straightened up, like the shoes were side by side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like maybe the cleaning crew had gone out there, okay, um, so they're but basically I mean those, those contents, and that's it, she's and we don't know.
Speaker 1:And again, like, by the time the fbi gets on the boat and they start investigating this, they, the crew, had already cleaned the boat and they start investigating this. They, the crew, had already cleaned the room, which may or may not make a difference, but it does make a difference for me on the patio well, it does, it's and that's what the crew does when you leave your room.
Speaker 1:So I mean, don't you imagine the fbi has asked them if they put the sandals together like that and push the table over there? You would think they have asked him that question. They can find out who cleaned that room.
Speaker 2:They can find out who cleaned it, but the person can say yes or no.
Speaker 1:I know, but I think that's important.
Speaker 2:I think they just said they gave the appearance that things were straightened up, like I mean at that time. I mean I think the room was already cleaned well before authorities were probably even notified. I mean right.
Speaker 1:No, I mean they were notified. Curious how police were notified right as they went to port.
Speaker 2:In order for that room to have been cleaned, the family would have had to get out of the room. They're not going to clean the room if you're in there, right?
Speaker 1:We just know from the documentary the room got cleaned're not going to clean the room if you're in there, right? We just know from the documentary. The room got cleaned, yes, okay. So shoes are found, doors found open. Her father goes to look for her at 6 am.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying from the whole preservation of a crime scene. At that point I don't think that they thought it was a crime scene and then had it cleaned. I think they just were doing their normal course of duty and you know at that point.
Speaker 1:No, I don't think they purposely went in and cleaned the scene.
Speaker 2:There was some suspicion within the documentary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think it was just really Well. I mean they could have just Well. I mean I don't know, there probably could have been some things they did that they would not have allowed the crew member to clean a room.
Speaker 2:No, no, if they would have done things a little bit, I'm quite sure they did not handle that well. If they would have thought initially they probably wouldn't have let him in that room. I'm just saying like at that point.
Speaker 1:But if a girl disappears, was last seen?
Speaker 2:You kind of just make sure it's not accessible. No, no, but at that point they didn't know she had really disappeared. They were at in the port, they're looking for her. They just could not find her. They still, at that point, I feel like they didn't even know if she had slipped off the boat, even though they called the name. I mean that maybe she, just you know.
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Speaker 1:So that morning that her dad goes out and she's gone, he doesn't wake the mother up just yet. Everybody's still asleep. He goes out and he looks for her. He comes back and he tells his wife I've looked all over for Amy and I can't find her. This is when they notify the ship and the director. I'm not going to get into all of that. They were not going to make a seven o'clock announcement. This is a big boat. They thought she was somewhere. You can tell know. Like you said, people just don't miss, just disappear off these boats. They, this is a huge ship and they thought she's probably somewhere. They encouraged the family to go look for a little longer and, if they can't find her, to come back.
Speaker 1:Now. The difficulty here like you said, chris, they're at port and what does that mean? People are ready to get off this ship Now, at six in the morning. You're not getting off port. We're not getting off port till 8am. Okay, 6am is when he goes looking for her. About seven is when he tells the director or the whatever he was, says they're not making the announcement. Give me 30 more minutes, chris. This is now 730, going into eight o'clock within. People are now getting ready to go downstairs and to get and to go into Curacao, okay.
Speaker 1:So, unfortunately, this is just a very bad timing. You have a lot of people that are ready to get off this boat. You're out, you're about to open the floodgates and let people off and you have a missing girl. And but they do. They do pager, they do say her name and I, if I have my facts right, they did this before letting people off the boat. They asked her to come to the desk or to check in and she did not come. So they end up doing a search of this boat after port.
Speaker 1:Now, chris, you and I both know not everybody gets off the ship, not everybody goes out to port. There's a lot of people who walk with canes, are in wheelchairs. There's lots of reasons why people don't go in. Sometimes they want everyone off the boat and they just want to enjoy everything on the boat themselves, right, so you do have an influx of people wanting to exit, but you also still have people on. So Royal Caribbean, they did a sweep.
Speaker 1:Now I could tell from the documentary that because the Bradley's did not visually see them searching the boat I think you know you just there they were told to wait in their rooms Someone comes and says listen, we did a search of this boat and your daughter is not on this boat. Okay, now am I to think they didn't do their due diligence in searching this boat? They talk about this but we don't know. I mean we just don't know how. I mean we can only assume that Royal Caribbean did what they were supposed to do and search the entire boat. And they said it takes an hour. And I believe they have hundreds employees that are actually participating to look at every nook and cranny in this place. They said they did it. That's what they say. That's what they say. I'm not so certain. I'm not so certain. The family believes that. So you know how.
Speaker 1:People getting off the boat, and you have this family desperate to find their daughter. Now this is where things get a little. This is where, I think, things get a little murky. You start having sightings of her. By the way, they don't find her in Curacao. She's not on the boat, she's officially missing.
Speaker 1:The FBI is then brought in and asked to come onto the boat. The family I'm really glad they did not go back into Puerto Rico and dock because of all the news and because of all the coverage it had hit America by this time that she was missing from this cruise ship, by this time that she was missing from this cruise ship and someone flew the family back to their home, which I'm glad they did that. I think it would probably would have been very difficult and a lot more painful to even to even continue to be on you know to, to continue to be on this trip and then having to go back into port where where you know there's going to be reporters and stuff waiting so they go home without their daughter. Now this has been since 1998, and there have been multiple sightings.
Speaker 2:I think the first one was like four years after right?
Speaker 1:No, actually I don't think it was or 2004.
Speaker 2:It's one or the other. The gentleman that was there that was diving.
Speaker 1:Okay, we'll have to go back, because I thought it was very short. I thought it was like six months after she disappeared. I thought the first sighting was very short.
Speaker 2:The taxi driver.
Speaker 1:No, the taxi driver was when he told the father that Amy tapped on his window.
Speaker 2:That was when they went back down there, so that may be the first yeah, so the first sighting was really was that with the father?
Speaker 1:but then you have the gentleman who was on the documentary, who says he saw amy, and who he identified as allister douglas that was the one that walking with her years later. I think it was the first one. No, the one years later was the guy in the brothel bar.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, that was years and years later. Yeah, then there was the woman who was years and half a year later.
Speaker 1:Right, which was actually the last sighting of her, was the woman, the first gentleman who helped?
Speaker 2:who ended up helping the family?
Speaker 1:later on down the road, yeah, but.
Speaker 2:I believe the taxi driver, when the family went back down, was the first one to notify the brother that you know. Tell them if he was looking for which neighborhoods to go into.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Because that's when they went with the Coast Guard, the Curacao Coast Guard. Yeah, officer.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think too that you know, I guess at that point you believe that she has gotten off the boat, right? I mean you, you know. Again, we don't know.
Speaker 2:Well, they feel like she was taken off how the mind shifts Right, so let's just talk about.
Speaker 1:So we know Amy has never been found. Okay, we know from the documentary that trafficking is a.
Speaker 2:Well, and they searched the water. They claim they searched the waters about, I think, 15 miles off the coast. They did have a grid as the boat was approaching. They used.
Speaker 1:They did.
Speaker 2:Essentially current maps and things like that. It also is Curacao. They did say they enlisted the help of the venezuelan coast guard. We have no idea what that search tell. I mean, all you'd hear is the coast guard.
Speaker 1:Oh, if she would have fallen off, she would have come to shore right, well, we don't know that there are sharks in the water.
Speaker 2:And he's like oh well, you know, they would just buy an arm, they would just buy like I mean, nobody knows, I mean people could never come to shore. There's no doubt there's stronger currents that are coming there, but how thorough was that search? But I think that's why, you know they said they searched the water and it just seems like it was given up. You know, like how much time was actually dedicated that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I could not find anywhere that there was extensive water search. Um, I mean, I don't know. I mean, how long do you search the water?
Speaker 2:I think they said they saw the helicopters and the boats for like a day or two, where? They would see them because they weren't there very long. They stayed in curacao, I believe the ship probably just they didn't keep the ship in port, correct?
Speaker 1:no, no, they eventually have to go back.
Speaker 2:No, the, the boat leaves and goes back I mean the boat continues on with the passengers on the cruise. That's right so they that only happened, they only they mentioned that they were on the boat when they actually saw them searching the water I just don't think there was any extensive search of water weeks afterwards. And again it's like a day or two and you're in the ocean.
Speaker 1:So, but I don't know Natalie Holloway. There was a lot of search for her. They had a lot of money when it comes to so I don't know, like that's like that, and I didn't even really think about that. You know, was the perception very early on that there was trafficking involved or she was abducted and there was, and they never thought she went in the water.
Speaker 2:You know, again, we're not there we don't know how slow they were going. We don't know exactly what they were. I thought one or two things. Somehow she got off the boat. I'm talking about not the family, right, but I think they think she ever got got off the boat, got in in trouble or fell off, even though they never recovered the body. That's still a possibility, sure, okay.
Speaker 1:So they go into Curacao. They are, you know, they can't find Amy. They end up going home. The father will go back, right, he goes back because he doesn't know what to do. He's still looking for their child and they've done so many interviews over the years.
Speaker 1:There have been so many theories about what happened to her. There's been multiple sightings. Again, we don't have to talk about each one of them. We know one was seen was on the beach, her walking. This person says he also identifies Alistair Douglas from a picture as the guy walking with her. He gives him an angry face, she kind of walks away. Then you have a sighting of her like in a bar I would just say like more of a brothel bar from a military person who is going to be into retirement soon. That's why he says he doesn't come forward. But Amy tells him that he that she got off the boat got in some trouble, had exited the boat to get drugs. Now this is what's so. Now I want to talk. I want to hone in on this sighting for a second, because her parents never believed that she would have got off the boat for drugs. Okay, they say that drugs Amy was more of a beer cigarette girl Drugs were not something that she that really was any part of her life.
Speaker 2:Or we thought right, what? Does one jump off a boat at 7.30 in the morning in Curacao, in a country that they'll probably chop your hands off if you are caught? With drugs and just know where to go get drugs at that time.
Speaker 1:She doesn't, but it's believed that she could have asked people like Alistair Douglas or people working on the boat that might have been familiar with Curacao and be able to find her drugs. So it wasn't that she just walked off and decided to go do this on her own. She would have met up with some people on the boat.
Speaker 2:I think she seemed to say that she wanted to get for her and her brother.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying. There's different stories about this.
Speaker 2:I feel like if her brother was into that too.
Speaker 1:He would have known they were like best friends.
Speaker 2:But even like you don't go get drugs for somebody who probably has never done drugs. So if he does drugs too, that would be the first place they'd start looking Like come clean. That would be the first place they'd start looking like come clean.
Speaker 1:oh, yeah, maybe she's all good. I mean then that way they would scour the island more. But I never believed like in, but based on her parents reactions that this was actually a viable we just know that she was an athlete.
Speaker 2:That doesn't necessarily mean you don't do drugs plenty of athletes probably do drugs it just didn't seem.
Speaker 1:Once again, you know, who knows, maybe she was asking, but I mean, I don't know, is a young girl going to get off a boat and go find drugs and I mean, this girl isn't a dummy. I'm gonna say no. I'm gonna say well, and the answer is no.
Speaker 2:And not only that, she didn't just leave her family to wonder where the hell she is I also don't think that I mean because we had asked some of the people on the ship like they're not supposed to get off these boats.
Speaker 1:No, they can't. They have to get approval and, depending on their schedule, they can't.
Speaker 2:No, it depends on what visa status and what country they come from.
Speaker 1:That's absolutely you know 100%.
Speaker 2:Not just everybody can get off, no, they don't. Also the notion that somebody would have smuggled her off as we've.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I kind of am going to put the kibosh on that. In my opinion, we've both been off ships.
Speaker 2:That just seems more than difficult. Well, first of all, you're going to have to drug her because you want her alive.
Speaker 1:We have to assume she's alive at this point, because if you're trying to traffic her, you're not killing her.
Speaker 2:And if one person is walking off the boat with her, that works on the boat doesn't look a little odd if you're dragging a big, uh, steamer trunk behind you with a body in it or a suitcase.
Speaker 1:Well, and not only that her friends say that she would have put up a fight. So we know that somebody just didn't abduct her and like, keep her quiet as she's exiting this boat. I just don't see that. Listen, there could be people listening to us right now, chris, that are going. Nope, she was traffic. She trafficked. Okay, if that's what it, everybody can just assume their own theories based on your own research. Watch the documentary, hear what people are saying, but I'm gonna.
Speaker 1:I, I come from a place of being a female, being a young female. Thinking about how Amy had just come into her own right, talking about her sexuality, being more comfortable with herself, getting an apartment, getting a job, starting a new life, like this girl is a little bit, shows a little confidence, in my opinion. And her mother said her mother even said on this documentary, if Amy was gone for more than 10 or 15 minutes, she would have left us a note, she would have told us where she was going and I and that sticks with me because I think, more than anything, we know our kids and if her mother didn't believe that, she would have walked off that ship. And here's another thing, chris, I told you this so many times and I go back to this. Were there any other shoes missing? Because she would not. I don't even think she would have gone and got coffee barefoot on a cruise ship. I love being barefoot. I ain't walking around barefoot on a cruise ship. I'm not leaving my room with no shoes on and I'm sure as hell not leaving my room with no shoes on and going in a Curacao. So I want to know their other shoes gone. And if there weren't golly to me that evidence right there, I'm not so certain. She left that balcony on foot. I guess I can't get past the shoes. I don't know. Maybe there's another pair missing. That is in the police report that they just didn't talk about. But gosh, that is one thing I would like to know. Did she put on another pair of shoes? The shoes bother me. I'm not sure if I'm going to go walk out, even to get coffee with no shoes on. Maybe, but maybe not. Okay, so she is. So the family is back home. They are continuing to look for her. They are getting multiple.
Speaker 1:Chris, I want to go back to that sighting we just talked about, because he says in this documentary well, I don't know if you believe me or not, but the FBI believed me and they gave me a polygraph. So, chris, what if he I'm going to assume he passes this polygraph? You know, these are the. These are the things that I struggle with this in this case, because it's like is he being credible? Did he actually? Is he telling the truth? And if he is telling the truth, how did she end up off of this boat? But then I think to myself you know sightings, right, I? I think, chris, the last sighting of her was like in 2000. I mean, I could be so wrong about this, but I think it was like 2005. I mean, it's been a long time since somebody has claimed to have seen her.
Speaker 2:Okay, I almost think it's been that long. I just think to the um that that country relies on tourism that's right you know, like to think that I'm not saying sex trafficking people.
Speaker 1:I mean you have to think, oh, it's a problem everywhere.
Speaker 2:We're not saying it's not, please, thank you, it's. I mean, I just think you people, who probably are quote unquote sex traffickers, probably target specific types of people. This person was on a boat with her whole family. If somebody's watching on this boat, they clearly see she's with a whole family who's going to miss her a whole lot. Right, it's a stink. She's American, and to think that somebody who's from that country or to you know because let's just say there was any evidence that she was actual evidence, she was done, that was happened. I mean like, for instance, 90 hot Natalie Holloway people didn't go to Aruba for a long time.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:It killed their tourism and they wanted to. You know, they want to find that and and solve that crap and no different there, if they knew some of their citizens were doing. I mean, when we went to Cancun and we were talking about, you know, taking the ferry to whatever was across the way, and we were asking, guys, it's safe? He's like, oh yeah, safe for you, not for me. He's like nothing's going to happen to you guys. He's like we rely on you coming here.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's exactly what he told us.
Speaker 2:I just think that's such a penalty for somebody there that was doing that. It's great Not saying that to them. It's not worth the risk. But there's probably a lot of girls on that island. I mean, if somebody was going to do that that they could potentially lure. I'm not saying it's a good thing, I'm just saying much easier targets than to go after something like that. I mean, in my opinion. I mean I'm like you, I don't think she'd have left the balcony. We know those balconies are very high and you've got to really work to get over that sucker. But my scenario is she felt sick and maybe leaned up and stood on top of that thing and wanted to barf over the edge and it was a very sheer edge and leaned out far and so it didn't hit anybody or anything. So the person upstairs wouldn't look and figure out where that came from, or what's your theory that you seem to say?
Speaker 1:So we know that she, we know that she was taking pictures for a picture contest and they had showed some of these on the documentary and they were beautiful.
Speaker 1:Now they were going into port and my theory is that if the table that was outside was up against the balcony whether it was at six o'clock in the morning I don't know, but I'm just let's just say it was I think she might have just kind of sat on the rail and took a picture of Curacao. I think she might have been snapping pictures and tried to get a view and taken a good picture of Port and may have just fallen. I mean again, we know nobody went in the room. If we assume that she was in Curacao and was trafficked, then she would have had been physically taken off of that boat. We would have had to assume, in that 20-minute timeline from the time her father saw her legs on that balcony to the time he woke up again and she was gone that there would have been some reason or some thought, like she was just going to wake up and go meet someone. I'm not really buying that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that's the reason the sliding glass door could have been open and she went inside to get her camera.
Speaker 1:I know. You know, and I think she took her shirt off because she came inside and they said that she had the white tank top or whatever.
Speaker 2:It's a sunrise you know as they're heading in there and so, yeah, I mean, I think, regardless of taking a picture or throwing up I mean I'll know, I just was riffing on that cause she said she didn't feel good or felt sick or whatever from probably drinking. But yeah, I don't feel like she ever left about. I think she left the balcony over the balcony, and that's just my opinion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I, you know again, there there is there's a lot of people who think a whole lot of different things. I'm sure in this case, and I'm sure that even the FBI and maybe the family don't agree on what happened. I'm sure Royal Caribbean and the family don't agree on things and I'm sure that there is a. There's a lot of sensitivity to this and there is a lot of pain and suffering and just not knowing. But I have a very difficult time with this timeline and it is very small to me and I think the shoes bother me, the fact that the dad goes looking for her at 6am, knowing probably Chris, where the coffee station is closest to them, knowing his daughter is probably around. So you know again, you would, she would have 20 minutes to leave the balcony, go get abducted, something happening to her?
Speaker 1:I don't, like you said, I don't believe she left. We know she didn't. I mean, if the father's sighting is a sighting of her legs, she was on the balcony, she wasn't with him between 5 and 6 am, that these two eyewitnesses say that she saw him and they saw her and Alistair. So you know, and again, he goes on to work with the cruise line. They didn't find anything, I'm assuming enough to arrest him or bring him in. I know the FBI said they couldn't, because you know this is international water?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they can't. It's international waters, you know, which is a problem they probably should have. Maybe they could have unraveled anymore, you know. And then at the end of this documentary, chris, they have, they started tracing people that visited the Amy Bradley website, right, and wanted to see. Now there was a little bit of interesting. You know what do you call it.
Speaker 2:They were tracking, tracking IP addresses, the IP addresses in Barbados, and that around the times of holidays that there would.
Speaker 1:Right, because that is the last known sighting was in the Barbados bathroom by that woman.
Speaker 2:There would be hits on the website that would last for a minute.
Speaker 1:I think that's so coincidental, but that's well, no, some the pages will be open for like 45 minutes, though like of the family.
Speaker 2:She said that's one minute at a time right, but then longer than like clicking through, like longer than like clicking through.
Speaker 1:Yeah so you know, I mean, is there something to that? I don't know, that's very I'm not, that's not my forte, and looking in that technology, and why, if you just leave something open, does it then count the time? I'm not, I don't know anything about that, but, um, I know. Again, that's a lot of hope and it gives them hope that she's alive. And you know what if? If they have been able to pull this off after all these years? You know, I just have a problem with the sightings being in I think, curacao.
Speaker 1:Why do you keep her in curacao? You're walking along a beach with her. Do you think, chris a girl who is so confident and an athlete and described by her friends the way she's described, that she's just gonna let this happen? That's my problem with these sightings of her. It's like I mean a 200 drug debt, like you knocking on a taxi window. This girl was an american. I think she would have gone to the, to the tried to find where the first embassy was, or she was alone, remember the taxi driver said she's alone.
Speaker 2:So many tourists over the all of that time and all the opportunity, because they were like, well, they could have been threatening her family. I mean I can with this girl. Will they believe that some Curacaoans are going to go to the United States?
Speaker 1:I think she would have done anything to get home.
Speaker 2:That's what I mean, like all of the tourists At least in the beginning. I'm just saying all the opportunities and all the tours that come through there that cross her path, and not one time to reach out other than these two accounts. Even there's only one account that she asks for help because, like the girl, that she sees in the bathroom.
Speaker 2:She doesn't ask her to help her. No, she doesn't. And you know even the taxi driver. And I mean I don't know. You know, like I said, it's I'm not saying these people are lying. I think they believe they did so. If they believe it, they're not lying about it. It's not like it's some sort of publicity stunt, but just the likelihood, because I mean I just can't imagine you would pass all these American and European tourists and you never once would say you've been kidnapped, you need help.
Speaker 1:And that's the tech, and that's the thing, chris, the taxi driver that was when the dad went back down to Curacao a few weeks after they returned to the back to the house. So you're saying so. That taxi driver said he saw her alone, you know, tapping on the window asking for a phone.
Speaker 2:He sent them to some of the crummiest neighborhoods. So, who knows, he could have tried to set them up for a robbery. I mean, you never know.
Speaker 1:I mean, why don't you ask the taxi driver to take you to the embassy? I guess I thinking as a young woman if I'm in the streets of Curacao, especially walking alone. I'm going to find out where can I get a hold of somebody American.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like the IP address. After all these years, if you have access to a computer, you I mean you know more a lot about that than I do.
Speaker 1:I mean, you can probably spend a whole episode talking about this IP address.
Speaker 2:We won't do that but I'm just saying like, if you have access to a computer to browse a website with your family's photos on it, you damn sure can call somebody or send an email or something.
Speaker 1:And they talk about that. I mean, there is not some.
Speaker 2:Uh, I mean, they have technology there too. It's been there forever. I mean, granted, this happened in the in the late nineties, but I mean like it, just that's what makes me so um unsure of all the sightings, yeah unsure of all the sightings.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, again, I'm sure people are going to, you know, come up with their own thoughts about this case Again, those that you know. I would say for me it's that short timeline. You know the creepy guy next door. We saw him in the documentary, I don't know, they went to his cabin, honestly pretty close to after she went missing, and you know, the other neighbor next to him said the music was really loud, but, chris, I think she would have put up a fight with him and I think he would have been showing some scratches and defense wounds of some sort.
Speaker 1:In my opinion, I don't think she's going to scale the wall and try to go to the other side. Again, we're talking about 20 minutes. So she just going to wake up and this guy's like looking over and goes, hey, come on over, and then she's going to scale the wall over the ocean. Seems a little bit dairy to me and not something she would do. Why not just come out of your cabin and go next door to his? Seems a little strange.
Speaker 1:So do I think she scaled the wall next door? No, do I think he's creepy? Sure, but the shoes, the short timeline, the, the, the shirt being on the chair, the fact her dad can't find her at six o'clock in the morning, when they there is not a lot of people walking around at six o'clock in the morning, cruise ships, people are sleeping, um, and he he wasn't able to find her and I'm sure he looked very extensively. And so, um, because of that, and because of just her love of taking the pictures and we know that she was excited about earning this contest I something just tells me that, like you said, she wasn't feeling well. Did she get sick, lean over too far and did she use that little table to maybe sit up on the rail? They were going slow into port and did she take a picture and accidentally fall off? Bye.