A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
October 27, 2024 Rethinking Happiness in a Secular Age
What if the relentless pursuit of happiness has us looking in all the wrong places? Join us on a journey to uncover the deeper roots of fulfillment, guided by insights from our special guest, Natalia, a seasoned psychologist with a knack for unraveling the complexities of the human psyche. Together we challenge the modern-day obsession with material gain and immediate gratification, exploring whether a return to spiritual and meaningful pursuits might pave a more satisfying path. We also delve into the impact of societal narratives on well-being, particularly among privileged university students who find themselves inexplicably dissatisfied despite their advantages.
From the profound thoughts of Montaigne to the enduring influence of Judeo-Christian values, we dissect the paradox of material wealth juxtaposed against a backdrop of emotional disconnect. Even in affluent societies blessed with freedom and prosperity, younger generations report a troubling decline in happiness. Our conversation navigates through historical and cultural shifts that may have contributed to this paradox, questioning whether the detachment from traditional values and the lure of instant gratification are to blame. Through this exploration, we ponder the implications for future generations striving for authentic happiness.
As the discussion unfolds, we venture into the realm of religion's place in today's world, drawing parallels with the Roaring Twenties and examining the evolving societal values. Through an intriguing framework of the "four levels of happiness," we explore dimensions ranging from sensory pleasures to the pursuit of a sublime connection with a higher power. We also confront the challenges faced by religious communities in engaging meaningfully with a secular society, emphasizing the necessity for their voices in public discourse. This episode invites you to reconsider the foundations of true happiness and the role spirituality may play in fulfilling our deepest yearnings.
With a gun over my head Telling me I've got to beware, think it's time to stop. What's that sound? Everybody, look what's going down. Bad lines being drawn, nobody's right, everybody's wrong, and people speak in their mind. Are getting so much resistance?
Speaker 2:From behind. Stop what's that sound.
Speaker 1:Everybody. Look what's going down. Welcome to A Show of Faith, where a professor, priest, millennial and rabbi discuss theology and philosophy and anything else of interest in religion. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, hey, we'd love to hear from you. Please email us at ashowoffaith at hotmailcom. You can hear our shows again and again by listening. Pretty much everywhere podcasts are heard. Our priest is Fr Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St Cyril of Alexandria in the 10,000 block of Westheimer, present and accounted for. Our professor, david Capes, is our Baptist minister. He's the director of academic programming for the Lanier Theological Library, great to be with you guys.
Speaker 1:Our pleasure. Rudy Kong is our millennial. He's a systems engineer and has his master's degree in theology from the University of St Thomas. And tonight he is in the air with on the air with us with his wife Natalia. Natalia and Rudy are newlyweds.
Speaker 4:And also Natalia, and Natalia, I understand. Go ahead, natalia.
Speaker 5:I'm happy to be with you guys.
Speaker 4:Natalia, did Rudy say you have also a degree in theology?
Speaker 5:Yeah, I am doing right now in spiritual theology.
Speaker 4:Oh, spiritual theology. Oh, spiritual theology. Very good Okay.
Speaker 1:Wonderful, Wonderful. Actually. Don't you think that that's more qualified than simply a master's in theology? I think so.
Speaker 4:I think so too.
Speaker 3:I think so I think we need to get rid of Rudy and just keep Natalia I definitely think I have no qualifications to be on the radio, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:I definitely think I have no qualifications to be on the radio, that's for sure. I am Rabbi Stuart Federo of Congregation Jarhashalom, rabbi Emeritus, in the Clear Lake area of Houston, texas. Jim Robinson is our producer and engineer. He's the author of the book I Am With you Always, matthew 2820, a daily devotional. Corey and Miranda are our board operators and together, jim and Miranda and Corey, help us sound fantastic. Welcome to A Show of Faith.
Speaker 3:Super duper, super duper. Hey, Father Mario, I see you got my video that I had sent to you.
Speaker 4:Well, I not only got it, I was very touched, I was very nice of you to. You must have said to the director was he the director of the Institute?
Speaker 3:He was the director of the Institute and he's also the editor, the chief editor of Public Discourse RJ Snell is his name For those who don't know. I was in Princeton University this year or this past week, sorry and I was at a conference there. It was kind of an interesting conference about the theological sort of perspectives on DEI diversity, equity and inclusion and I was also there for another top secret meeting that I can't talk about. But anyway, I just wanted to let Mario know that he is known by those people, he is appreciated and he is invited anytime he wants to go to one of their events at the Aquinas Institute. I always get those two mixed up. I don't know why.
Speaker 4:Well, it was very nice and I was very humbled that I was recognized by such illustrious men.
Speaker 1:Wow, as opposed to just us.
Speaker 4:Yeah, especially by David tremendously. But Rudy, I mean Rudy and you.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you, yeah, right.
Speaker 4:I would find Natalia's recognition tremendously interesting.
Speaker 1:Right, but that was very cool, david, very cool.
Speaker 3:No, it was a good. I love Princeton. It's a great university. You know, one of the things we're going to talk about tonight really influences and I began talking to them about the students at Princeton. They're one of the best universities in the world. They come, they have such great prospects. These students do. There are thousands of them, they come from across the globe and yet there is still this burgeoning unhappiness, dissatisfaction, sense of almost hopelessness about the future. And yet, you know, here they are 18, 19, 20-something-year-olds who have all the reasons in the world to be hopeful and to be happy and yet, as we see across many great universities, a lot of the students are not happy. So that leads us into our topic this evening. I guess. Deeply privileged, absolutely, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Rudy, rudy, you're on.
Speaker 6:Okay, I'm going to let Natalia do the intro, because she's been practicing all day. All right, all right, go.
Speaker 5:Natalia, okay Okay, my English is not my first language, so I can commit some mistakes. Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 4:Okay, go.
Speaker 5:So, as a psychologist, I see that nearly every person who steps into my office is searching for one thing happiness. It's an endless pursuit that often leaves us restless, as though sometimes is always missing. That's why I suggested today's theme and the article we share. The author challenges suggesting that we are fixated on an immediate contentment, a happiness grounded in the material, which ironically leaves us emptier. So my question is how do you guys interpret this constant rasslelism that seems to follow us? Could it be that we are looking in the wrong place, rabbi? What do you think?
Speaker 1:I think you're totally right. I think we look for the physical material as opposed to the spiritual, physical material as opposed to the spiritual. I think there's a deep-seated need for meaning in one's life and when you look outside into the material, you're not going to find it, and I think that's the problem on the college campus. Adding to that, the idea that they're oppressed, they're oppressed and therefore they have to tear down all walls does not also give them any comfort or meaning in their lives. Or if it gives them a meaning like tearing down the walls might give them meaning, it's a very shallow meaning that they get from it, shallow meaning that they get from it.
Speaker 3:Well, Stuart, you talked about the fact that they're just looking to the material. What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1:They're looking, look, they're taking the people who are at Princeton that you were describing, david. They're looking for a degree, they're looking for a good job, they're looking for the fanciest.
Speaker 3:Make lots of money right.
Speaker 1:Money, but it's what money can buy for them. They assume they're going to get the money. Most people, I believe, who go to college, no matter what they're taking, no matter what their major is, believes that it's going to be a path to money and the money is going to be a path to possessions, and the possessions will make them happy, give them meaning in their lives. And it won't, and it never has you know.
Speaker 4:I don't know if any of you have ever run into this concept, but I ran across a concept reading an article this week called the hedonic treadmill. Say it again Hedonic treadmill Like hedonist yeah.
Speaker 4:Have you ever heard of that? No, the hedonic treadmill is actually a concept brought about in positive psychology, and the hedonic treadmill basically is that in positive psychology they have done enough experiments to understand that whatever thing you get, be it money, be it a relationship, be it any kind of a positive experience, will elevate your mood, at the most for maybe a year, if not much shorter, but that sooner or later you come back to a stable place and that happiness is no longer really a possession. It's no longer um, is no longer really a possession.
Speaker 4:It's no longer yours that's right, it's so it the they call it the hedonic treadmill, because because you're constantly working towards it and you and you never get there. Right, you never get there. So you think, oh, if I get this much money, I I'm going to, or if I win the lottery, I'm going to be happy. Well, you're happy for a while, but then you go back to where you were. It's the same thing with love relationships, intense love relationships. Unless you go deeper, you're happy with the romance we call it, but then, sooner or later, you go back to where you were. Have any of you ever heard of that? It becomes normal. Yeah, yeah, rudy Natalia, I haven't.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think Natalia has a really interesting perspective on this because as a psychologist, she sees this kind of thing a lot.
Speaker 5:I would imagine, psychologist she sees this kind of thing a lot, I would imagine. I agree with Father Mario, and what I see is that a lot of people confuse happiness with pleasure. Yes, and pleasure is like when you eat a meal you eat and for a moment you are satisfied that after two hours you are hungry again and it's interesting because I think that that is also the basis for addictions.
Speaker 4:Addiction gives you the high, but then it's diminishing and then you need more of it. You need more of it in order, like I am addicted to Apple.
Speaker 1:Is that cider, or do you mean pie?
Speaker 3:Apple computers.
Speaker 1:Is that what he meant?
Speaker 4:Just remember, there are three values in life God is always first, people are second and Apple computer is third. Right, so yes, my dear.
Speaker 6:Going back to and I want to ask Dr Caves the same question, the question that Natalia asked how do you interpret this constant restlessness to? And I want to ask Dr Caves the same question, the question that Natalia asked the rabbi how do you interpret this constant restlessness? And so the rabbi mentioned sort of a strict materiality right, but is this something that you think that has always existed? Is this something relatively new?
Speaker 4:Well, it all depends on the level of explanation that you want to give it, because the level of explanation that I would give it, as a Christian, theologian or philosopher, would be that which Augustine said almost what 1,600 years ago? You have made us for yourself, o Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in you. And that is the truth. We have tried as human beings, we have tried everything to be self-sufficient and to be fulfilled and to flourish as human beings, apart from God and there is none. It does not work and ultimately, that's where you get the hedonic principle.
Speaker 1:But see, I think that goes more towards meaningfulness than it does for possessions of the material. I think we look for meaning in our lives and we may try to find it in the material, yes, but it's the absence of the meaning that is the whole within us, that is correct.
Speaker 3:David, I would disagree. Stuart, once again you're wrong. No, I think you know. If you go back and read the article that Natalia and Rudy sent us. It was a really terrific article, I think, because there you have a variety of major philosophers and, I would say, theologians to some degree, who are saying it's not so much the quest for meaning but the quest for transcendence.
Speaker 3:Transcendence is the idea for transcendence, transcendence is the idea and I asked Rudy to come up with a really good definition of this but transcendence, briefly, is the idea that there is more to life and there is more to the world and the objective universe than just us. We are not the locus of meaning. We can't look to ourselves to find the meaning about anything. We are in search of meaning, yes, but we won't find that until we find the transcendent one. And I think that's exactly what Ecclesiastes is about, rabbi, your favorite book in the Old Testament, hebrew Bible. It's about the quest not so much for meaning but for transcendence. And he went trying to find meaning in material things and entertainment and money and all these kinds of things and came up finding there was none, there was no meaning, there was no permanence. Yeah, there's no permanence. Yeah, there's. No, it's not until you get there. So anyway, I know we got to go to a break.
Speaker 4:That's the meaning of capitalism. Yes, this is 1070 knth and we will be right back am 1070 the answer?
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Speaker 2:Johnny Angel. Johnny Angel, you're an angel to me.
Speaker 4:This is happiness.
Speaker 2:Johnny Angel, how I love him, how I tingle when he passes by. Every time he says hello, my heart begins to fly. Johnny Angel, how I want him. He's got something that I can't resist, but he doesn't even know that I exist. Shut up, shut up. I'm in heaven. I get carried away. I dream of him and me and how it's gonna be. Other fellas call me up for a date, but I just sit and wait. I'd rather concentrate on Johnny Angel, cause I love him, and I pray that someday he'll love me and together we will see how lovely heaven will be.
Speaker 1:And together we will see how lovely heaven will be. Welcome back to the Show of Faith on AM 1070, the Answer Rudy, where do you want to head?
Speaker 6:Well, I wanted to, in what I presented, what I found interesting and we got online and we pulled a Gallup report. And what was interesting is and the Gallup report is just this kind of organization that does a lot of questionnaires really all over the world and they try to determine sort of benchmark certain things. And one of the things that they try to benchmark is always happiness. So what countries have the most happy people? And I don't want to get too much into that. But one of the things that kind of struck me is something that they clearly delineate in the report is that younger generations, right, the world itself is at the highest level of wealth and freedom essentially ever experienced as a whole by humanity. So I'm not saying that everybody's like that, I'm saying as a whole, right, we have never been more wealthy as a human race.
Speaker 6:I understand that there's still certain places that there's a lot of suffering and poverty and everything of course, and they specifically focus on European countries and America and the Americas, Canada, the United States, and they show that younger generations, even though they report increased material wealth and freedom, they have the lowest levels of happiness of any other demographic right. And you know, I think it's easy to look at hormones and where they are as people, right, Maybe they're not listened to, they're not valued. I mean, being young isn't necessarily an easy thing. There's a lot going on, but I find it curious that we have built with this what I would argue our Judeo-Christian values, right, the most wealthy we have ever built, any type of society and culture. And when we started to detach right, so when we went as Montague and Dr Capes mentioned a few of these guys in the article it talks about Montague and Pascal Rousseau and these are all sort of 16, 17, 18, 19-year-old thinkers and writers. I mean right, classics, exactly. But Montaigne sorry, I'm butchering his name, yeah, it's Montaigne, Montaigne, Montaigne, sorry, I'm butchering his name, yeah, it's Montaigne. Is that what it's called? Montaigne, Montaigne, Montaigne, yeah.
Speaker 6:So he talks a lot about this sort of imminence right, this kind of approach to looking at things in a sort of way to be imminently gratified. And Dr Cade said, ask me to kind of provide a definition. And of course, as a Catholic, we think of imminence and the way I try to think of it is this presence. And I would look at it from the perspective of a creator and creation. Right, that this creator is always there, it's always around, it's always involved and is kind of in everything and he kind of flips this thing around.
Speaker 6:And you've got to remember Montaigne, he's in the middle of terrible wars and there's this kind of culture of they're just really tired of, I would say, what they would think of as religious, and't we just take the moment and live the moment to the max, right? I mean, I'm summing it up, but this kind of ideology, I think, is kind of perforated across all of the intellectuals and it's kind of what we find ourselves in now. Right, I mean, you can just live the moment. If you want to be a particular type of gender, you can do that. If you want to switch it, you can do that. Whatever you're feeling at the moment, that's your truth and that's your today. Go ahead, Rob.
Speaker 4:No, no, let me just interject very quickly. I think that a lot of this comes from the Enlightenment. The Enlightenment, basically was a project of trying to remove God from the equation of human happiness and saying only scientific or science-based will save us. And I think that that's ultimately especially like philosophers these days, like Jean-Paul Sartre, an atheist philosopher, and others I don't want to start throwing names out, but it's all about the fact that human beings can be who they want to be, regardless of reality.
Speaker 4:Because the thing is Sartre said it this way existence precedes essence. Now that sounds complicated, but he's basically saying I exist, then I decide what I want to be. It's not like you're a human being. You have a human nature, then you exist. Okay, it's, there is no such thing as human nature, right, there is only existence.
Speaker 1:And then you decide what human nature is as an existing entity. You then choose what you are going that be.
Speaker 4:That is right, and so it's the actual rejection of an antecedent as an antecedent nature that exists, and that's what's happening right now. We'll get back to this when we're done, we'll get back to this too. This is 1070 KFTH and we'll be right back.
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Speaker 1:Satisfaction. I think Corey played that last time we were talking about this topic. Welcome back to A Show of Faith. I'm AM 1070, the Answer. You know there was an article that I read. Actually, I should have forwarded it to all of you, you should have, I should have.
Speaker 1:And it made a really, really strong analogy in terms of culture, in terms of hedonism, in terms of looking for meaning in the wrong places of right now to the roaring 20s. From meaning in the wrong places of right now to the roaring 20s, that the same kind of decadence and rebelling against the norms and satisfaction of the moment. It just it was an interesting comparison.
Speaker 4:Listen to this quote and I'd love to see him react to it. Listen to this quote and I'd love to react to it. Listen to this as the impact of Christianity decreases in the Western world, our suicide rate will continue to increase. The primary goal for most of us now in this post-Christian nation is happiness rather than holiness, success rather than significance, and I think that that's just right on target.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 4:Where do you want to head the discussion?
Speaker 6:Yeah, I actually wanted to pass along the lines of what you're saying and I wanted to essentially ask Natalia a question, and she can, so we have this truth right. That is objective, that it's supposed to be transcendent, that's intelligible, right that it can be understood, yes, but why are more and more people opting for this materialist point of view? Have we just become terrible teachers? Have we lost our ability to pass along this truth in a way that is digestible to newer generations? So I want to ask, kind of Natalia, to see what.
Speaker 1:Natalia, I'm going to go after you. Okay, go, natalia.
Speaker 5:Okay. So I think that, as we've understood in our time, that people understand the intelligence as some capacity to memorization or imagination. Pero, I'm confusing the language of imagination. But we are, we have intelligence and this is what make us different as human being. And intelligence is the capacity to look inside the things, the concept, to achieve the essence.
Speaker 5:And we live in the time that people, after enlightenment, after Kant, that people believe that the truth cannot be achieved anymore. We are not able to cut the essence of the things anymore, of the things anymore. So it's like if I smoke, they smoke. It's not true if I, if I'm not a cigarette, the cigarette is made for smoke, but if I try to eat the cigarette, this will make me very sick. So nowadays people don't know what is the human being anymore or what are we made for.
Speaker 5:And I think this is where this find what you guys were talking about the transcendent or the god or augustine, because the question for this, the answers for this question, are in the religions who made the human being and for what? Yes, so if I don't know this anymore, I can't achieve my planet. Would. Are the happiness and this is what I see on the concert are the addiction or the anxiety is because it's a existential anxiety. I am NOT being the person that I was made to be and every time I try, with a pleasure, I feel more and more anxiety because I can achieve and I become a jigsaw not bad okay, you're taking my spotlight here.
Speaker 3:Our wives are supposed to have been yes, you have been upstage, Rudy so much. I mean, she is so far beyond you. It's just amazing.
Speaker 6:I tried to marry up. What can I say?
Speaker 1:Yes, that's what we do.
Speaker 6:Rabbi, you said you wanted to mention something.
Speaker 1:Yes, because, rudy, you asked the question about where is the lack? Is it the lack of our teaching? Mm-hmm, okay, and I have a response to that. Probably you're not all going to like, and that is because I think the religions are leaving the public square vacant. Yes, are leaving the public square vacant, yes, I think, because we are not putting ourselves in the public eye with what we have to offer, with what religion has to offer meaning and fulfillment and belonging and everything that goes into what we stand for. And, yeah, we can teach and preach to our congregants when they come, okay, but I think we are doing a rotten job of bringing our messages plural out into the public square and I think that's the real problem.
Speaker 6:Dr Capes, what do you think?
Speaker 3:No, hey, listen, I agree. I mean, part of the study that we've been involved in a couple of years is the fact and this is just a small part of the population. But you have to realize I was talking about Princeton earlier. Talking about Princeton, I'm talking about Cornell, harvard, the biggest and best and most influential universities. When you look at those places and you see who is forming the minds of the people who become the leaders of our nation, only about one to two percent of those are Christian, who operate from either a Catholic or an evangelical perspective. Now, a number of those are Jews, I recognize, but they're not always living Jewishly and they're not always Especially on a college campus. Yeah, exactly so there's a tremendous amount of pressure on the people who formulate and form and influence Washington DC, influence Wall Street, influence so much of media and modern culture. Only a small percentage of those are evangelical or Catholic or Jewish.
Speaker 1:They're religious, the word is religious. They're not religious, religious.
Speaker 3:Broadly religious. But I wanted to be specific today that you know there are other voices, of course, but a lot of those are putting religious voices to shame. You can't get hired in those places, you cannot get tenure in those places.
Speaker 1:You cannot get published. Every one of those universities that you named have on-campus religious institutions? They do, whether they are Baptist student unions, catholic Newman Centers, hillel, whatever. Okay. Then it becomes up to them not to wait for students to come to the buildings, but for them to put themselves in the public square. And they don't.
Speaker 3:none of us do but there's a challenge there, stewart, oh absolutely here's the thing.
Speaker 3:I've talked to these people, I've talked to the best of the best at some of these universities. They do not and cannot appeal to the academic side of these students. They can appeal to their religious side, but they cannot answer the kind of academic questions that an academic, a person in academia who is a professor of philosophy or a professor of political science, a professor of English or professor of political science, they can't. Professor of england, not the people who are working at the catholic newman center or the people who are working at the hilarious center. They are wonderful people, they are gifted, they love god, they love their tradition, but they aren't able to really grapple with the hard questions that they're being asked by their professors in these kinds of contexts.
Speaker 1:And they have a hard time standing up. They may have a hard time standing up. Okay, but I can't tell David if you're saying they are censored if they try to answer or if they are incapable of giving an answer.
Speaker 3:They don't feel. They just say this because this comes directly from one of the key people this past week. They don't feel they are equipped equipped to answer, then why? Are they? On that campus because maybe they should questions that we're talking about are questions of questions of gender, the kinds of questions that are right now.
Speaker 1:Stuart dividing, then they are showing religion to be irrelevant. No, they're not. Yes, they are, they're not If they can't answer those questions from a religious perspective, if they can't give the Catholic, protestant, jewish Muslim whatever response to those issues, then I wonder what they're doing there.
Speaker 3:Stuart, go back to Brown and remember your days there.
Speaker 1:Oh, I do quite well and I remember the ministers and priests and rabbis who were on campus very well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's not take this too far in this direction. Yeah, let's not take this too far in this direction. I just want to say that so much of what forms our culture is shaped by those kinds of places and they are shaping the next people who are going to be governors and presidents and senators. Scary future.
Speaker 4:I think we just need to recognize that religion has been in retreat for a good number of years.
Speaker 1:Okay, enough of that, then let's get back out there. I'm in agreement.
Speaker 4:And I think it's happening, all of us, I think it's happening. I think more and more the disillusionment that is occurring, it is Absolutely In the Depression, all of the sadness that is going on in college campuses and in young people. I see small signs of the return of the God hypothesis, because there is no other answer and there is only one more answer to this, and that's a commercial. This is 1070 KNTH and we'll be right back.
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Speaker 12:Dennis Prager here. Join me on an unforgettable cruise to the Caribbean this November. Imagine nine days basking in the sun, surrounded by the stunning beauty of a tropical paradise. We'll cruise in the vibrant islands of Half Moon Cay, curacao, bonaire, aruba and more. We'll be joined by special guest, sean McDowell, and we'll both be sharing insights into current events in a way I hope energizes and challenges you. Secure your spot before spaces run out by calling 855-565-5519 or online at pragercruisecom.
Speaker 9:The Sekino crew sees very different paths.
Speaker 8:What we know is that there's two different major paths, and I think that this is where it's going to happen, and these next four years will determine that. It's not that the Democrats won't still be around, the Republicans won't still be around, but the question is what will the country look like if we continue to go down the path that Joe Biden has started and that Paris would like to continue?
Speaker 9:Sekino weeknights at 7 on AM 1070 and FM 103.3.
Speaker 2:The Answer. He was born in the summer of his 27th year, coming home to a place he'd never been before. He left yesterday behind him. You might say he was born again. You might say he found a key for every door. When he first came to the mountains, his life was far away On the road.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to A Show of Faith. I'm Dan Pitsen and the answer.
Speaker 4:Let me propose for our listeners a little bit of an organization, so that our listeners can have maybe a little hook to hang on to in terms of happiness. I learned there's a catechetical series called the Happiness Project, and they do something that I found helpful, and that is they divide happiness.
Speaker 4:Now, there's all kinds of ways to divide happiness, but one very helpful way of dividing happiness is the four levels of happiness, and let me just read the four levels, because I think the four levels gives a certain amount of like a hook to hang on to in terms of of where can we can go with happiness and a hope. Yes, level one happiness.
Speaker 4:Happiness of pleasure, in other words, the pleasure of eating something, the pleasure of eating ice cream, the pleasure of the moment happiness is the first level is simply about sensual gratification based on things, on something external that gives you that kind of help, momentary happiness. Okay, that's the superficial. That's level one. Level two is ego gratification, ego gratification, ego gratification. I want to be the best at, I want to be the best looking. I'm always comparing myself to other people. I am the smartest, I am the prettiest, I am the best football player. The more you can win over others. You're constantly having to do that, and the problem with that, of course, is that you're constantly having to prove yourself and there's always the anxiety that somebody is going to be better than they always will be.
Speaker 4:They're always really so you get level one, which is basically happiness from the pleasure of material objects. Level two is the process of ego gratification, happiness from comparison, from being better, more admirers than other. You feel that type of happiness when you, for example, win in sports or stuff like that, now, happy. The problem with that is you constantly have to prove yourself. The level number three is called the happiness of doing good for others. Now, now you might think, gosh, wouldn't that be the fourth level of happiness? Actually, it isn't. You know why?
Speaker 4:I experienced that very much in the priesthood Right, because you get to something called compassion fatigue. Compassion fatigue you just get to the point that you're doing stuff for other people and it does make you feel good, and that's a higher level of happiness that's a level three than the, the basic level, which is pleasure. The second level, which is competition, that. But the third level is your life has meaning because you're doing something for others. But ultimately you get tired and I experience there will always be somebody who needs help that's right and which is what I would call.
Speaker 4:What I got called, I heard called compassion fatigue. The highest level, which I think is for us the religious level, is called the sublime level, and that's level four is the most difficult one to achieve. It involves the search for fullness and perfection, and it has to do with finding the balance of the other levels. You never get rid of the other levels, but psychologists have labeled this as a desire for ultimate happiness, a call for connection to that which, whatever you call God.
Speaker 1:So in other words higher.
Speaker 4:Higher, Higher than the meaning of life. The ultimate reality of the universe.
Speaker 4:That's right. So for us like, for example, I usually teach, when I was talking to people, I always used to say to them I didn't become a priest because I like to help people, because that's not the reason I became a priest, because I wanted to serve God and I do what I do not so that you not the reason. I became a priest, because I wanted to serve God and I do what I do, not so that you will be better. I do what I do because I do it for God and that is what keeps me going. So I think that the highest level of happiness that you can maintain is that fourth level when you're not doing things just to pleasure or comparison, or doing altruistic things for other people. You're doing it for God, and that's ultimately what the definition of love. Love is the decision to unite yourself with God in caring for others, no matter how you feel.
Speaker 1:No matter how you feel.
Speaker 4:You do what you do, not because you're doing it for other people, but you're doing it for God, because it is the right thing to do. I'll back off.
Speaker 3:Wonderfully done, wonderfully said. The book that we've been talking about tonight is called why we Are Restless on the Modern Quest for Contentment. It's by a couple who I think they teach at Furman University yes, is a fine school. They're focusing here on political theory and philosophy with their work, but this particular book why we Are Restless on the modern quest for contentment so I think that's a book that I have not read, but I'm going to read it after having read some information about it. I think it'd be great for the podcast that I do at the Lanier Library called the Stone Chapel Podcast, and so I'm looking forward to talking to him about it.
Speaker 4:Yes, I read the book a couple years ago and it is one of the best books. That's where I was introduced to Montaigne and that's where I was introduced to a lot of the thinking on Pascal.
Speaker 1:I could have sworn it was Montaigne. No, Montaigne, and that's where I was introduced to a lot of the thinking on.
Speaker 4:Pascal. I could have sworn, it was Montaigne. No, montaigne, oh my God.
Speaker 3:He's so crude. By the way, I should say that, natalia, your English is much better than.
Speaker 1:Stuart's Spanish. That's very true. That's very true.
Speaker 3:And it's much better than my Portuguese, than Stuart's Spanish. That's very true. The rabbi, that's very true, and it's much better than my Portuguese.
Speaker 4:So thank you for being with us tonight on the show the woman. I think the woman can speak. You can speak three languages in Italia. Yes, natalia.
Speaker 5:I mix a little bit when I am speaking.
Speaker 4:I heard you say pedo. I see Exactly, pedo means butt.
Speaker 1:Not.
Speaker 4:B-U-T-T.
Speaker 12:I know.
Speaker 4:Yes, thank you.
Speaker 12:Which kind of?
Speaker 4:butt B-U-T. Never mind.
Speaker 3:Oh, there you go, okay, okay. This is an incredibly significant topic because the quest for happiness and the quest for contentment are just everywhere, and people make such wrong decisions in trying to find happiness, they make such wrong decisions in trying to be content and, ultimately, what is at hand, what is there in front of you, is not going to make you happy, it's not going to make you content. It is a connection with that which is beyond you, that which is greater than you. That is where contentment and happiness ultimately lies, and if you do the other, you're going to make mistakes, you're going to pay for it, you're going to suffer as a result, you're going to be unhappy, you're going to lack contentment and such. So I just think it's a great topic, natalia and Rudy, a great topic to discuss here on a Sunday night.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Dr Cates. I just wanted to Go ahead, Rudy.
Speaker 6:Go ahead, rabbi. No, no, go ahead. Okay, I just wanted to say that. And the book ends and so does this article, and I think this is kind of maybe the middle ground of maybe what Rabbi and Dr Caves was talking about is.
Speaker 6:I think that part of the issue is that we have completely lost in a lot of these big schools the notion of what liberal arts truly is, and it used to be that. You know, when you studied liberal arts philosophy you would question things. I'm not saying that they don't now, but I do think there is a level of questioning that isn't particularly allowed to be answered or you're immediately ostracized People. We've unfortunately created these mechanisms that have kind of become this sort of leviathan right, where you can't speak out a particular way and people think about their, and what you were saying I think is truly right, is any religion right?
Speaker 6:If you are confident of truth, you need to be able to stand up without fear and proclaim it, and unfortunately in today's day and age that could mean inviting violence, death, ostracize, I mean you name it. So it's a difficult time to be authentically Jewish. It's a difficult time to be authentically Catholic and Christian, particularly in particular parts of the world. But I think, as things become, dare I say, more and more degraded, we're going to be called more and more to stand up for this truth. We're not going to be able to hide behind.
Speaker 1:That's putting ourselves in the public, square Out in the world.
Speaker 6:And so I find that true and I'm not saying that we do. I mean I think we do a good. True, and I'm not saying that we do. I mean I think we do a good job and we have great dialogue, and I think part of this is this commitment right and this evangelization.
Speaker 1:So thank you guys. No, rudy, seriously, you and Natalia both thank you. Thank you, yeah, for choosing this topic.
Speaker 4:It was excellent, excellent.
Speaker 5:Thank you guys for inviting me Last time. Okay, you topic. It was excellent, excellent.
Speaker 6:Thank you guys for inviting me Last time, though, Kelly, you can't put my spotlight.
Speaker 1:Natalia, you can be on our show and come any time. You can leave what's-his-name behind.
Speaker 4:And Rudy, you have to bring Natalia, we have to bring her. You have to come up to the United States sometime. Absolutely, we have to meet sometime, yeah, okay, well, folks, we have reached the end of our show and next week it is my turn to be in charge. I believe you do, is it no? Whose is it?
Speaker 3:It should be mine, but here's my challenge. I'm going to.
Speaker 1:I think it's David. That's what I thought.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it is mine.