A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
November 10, 2024 With Malice Towards None
Is it possible to find common ground in a world marked by division? Join us for a compelling discussion with special guest Dr. Max Bonilla from the University of St. Thomas. We kick off our conversation with the classic Buffalo Springfield song "For What It's Worth," setting a reflective tone as we examine our current social climate. Our diverse panel navigates the intricate intersections of theology, philosophy, and politics, using recent reflections from Dr. Capes trip to Princeton University as a springboard for broader discussion.
Our conversation takes a deep dive into the tension between Marxist principles and Judeo-Christian values. Father Mario shares insights into what he terms "suspicious benevolence" towards leftist ideologies, while Dr. Max Bonilla discusses the essential need for a coherent anthropology to ensure societal function. Together, we stress the importance of maintaining ethical standards and unity in today's polarized world, referencing Pope Benedict's warnings about straying from our Judeo-Christian roots. The dialogue challenges us to reflect on democracy, identity, and the very nature of the human person.
As we wrap up, we consider the lost art of respect and the societal shift towards valuing professionalization over fundamental human education. Reflecting on Abraham Lincoln's wisdom, we discuss the importance of approaching political outcomes with charity, tranquility, and a commitment to just and lasting peace. Our conversation underscores the necessity of seeing individuals beyond labels, advocating for respectful discourse and a return to recognizing each person's inherent worth. This episode promises a thought-provoking journey, urging listeners to strive for unity and understanding in these turbulent times.
Something happened here. What? It is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there Telling me that I've got to beware. They get time to stop. What's that sound? Everybody, look what's going down. I love this song and it's so appropriate for our show. Listen to this now. Listen to this.
Speaker 2:There's battle lines being drawn and nobody's right.
Speaker 1:If everybody's wrong. Young people speak in their minds Are getting so much resistance. Call me high. It's time for stop. Hey, what's that sound? Everybody, look what's going down.
Speaker 2:Welcome to A Show of Faith, where a professor, priest, millennial and rabbi discuss theology and philosophy and anything else of interest in religion. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, hey, we'd love to hear from you. Please email us at ashowoffaith at hotmailcom. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much everywhere podcasts are heard. Our professor is David Capes, baptist minister and director of academic programming for the Linear Theological Library.
Speaker 3:Very good. Good to see you back, stuart. We missed you. I missed being here. Yeah, yes, well, we good. Good to see you back, stewart. We missed you. I missed being here. Yeah, yes, well, we have two professors tonight, so I want to make sure that we have.
Speaker 2:We get that's true, actually, yes, although he's more in administration. I think well, but do you teach he's?
Speaker 3:he's quite a scholar max.
Speaker 2:Do you teach also not? Currently no okay, all right. Uh, our priestess father mario arroyo, pastor, retired pastor of saint cyril of alexandria and the 10,000 block of Westheimer, it's good to be here. Rudy Cohn is our millennial. He's a systems engineer, has his master's degree in theology from the University of St Thomas, howdy howdy, and tonight with us specially is Did you say University?
Speaker 3:of St Thomas.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Wow, we have somebody else here who has a connection to the University of St Thomas.
Speaker 2:I was just about to say that.
Speaker 3:That's the University of St Thomas in Houston, not in Minnesota, and clearly you were talking about Mario who used to.
Speaker 1:Well, not only that, but you remember both me and Rudy got our degrees from St Thomas In Houston.
Speaker 2:Yes, Dr Max Bonilla has his doctorate in biblical theology. He's the interim vice president for academic affairs at Houston's University of St Thomas. Yes, ooh, I am Rabbi Stuart Federo, retired rabbi from Congregation Sha'ar HaShalom, the Clear Lake area of Houston, texas. Jim Robinson is our producer and engineer. He is the author of the book I Am With you Always, matthew 2820, a daily devotional. Corey and Miranda are our board operators and together, jim and Miranda and Corey, help us sound fantastic.
Speaker 1:And before we get going, I want to give a shout out to any new listeners that we have in Rosenberg. To give a shout out to any new listeners that we have in Rosenberg, because I was this morning at Holy Rosary Catholic Church in Rosenberg, texas, about 30 miles away from here 25, 30 miles away from here and I talked about the show of faith and several people are listening to us from Holy Rosary. You're welcome. We're Holy Rosary in Rosenberg.
Speaker 2:And we hope you listen, in spite of what you hear, in spite of my sermon this morning.
Speaker 1:Well, that goes without saying.
Speaker 3:Well, hopefully it was a good one. I want to make sure Max Bonilla his microphone is working, because I didn't I hope it is there, we go there.
Speaker 3:it is there, it is All right. I wanted to make sure we heard that. Hey, it's my turn to be show director tonight. And a few weeks ago I had the opportunity to be at Princeton University and be at an event of the Witherspoon Institute, which is kind of a think tank up there, but also the Aquinas Institute, because they were putting on a program looking at the theological sort of reflections on the DEI movement and such. It's really interesting, and I had a chance to meet RJ Snell. Rj Snell is the let me make sure I have his full title here. He's the editor-in-chief of public discourse, which is a great online journal. He's the director of academic programming programs for the Witherspoon Institute and he even did a special shout-out to Father Mario.
Speaker 1:He did, and I was really really very complimented.
Speaker 2:That was very nice.
Speaker 1:My name, my poor little diocesan priest name, was mentioned in such high academic circles.
Speaker 3:Well, in that room where we were at that moment was a room where Albert Einstein had taught when he was at Princeton.
Speaker 1:Kind of cool. He told me that when I was a little kid.
Speaker 3:Oh he did. Yeah, he did Cool when you were a little kid. Yeah, I knew him. Oh, you did. Wow, I'm impressed. Hey, anyway, there is a great publication. I want to recommend it to you. They have short essays, long essays, and the one that I wanted us to talk about tonight was entitled, written by him at Public Discourse, called With Malice Toward None. Now that's a statement out of Lincoln's second inaugural address Right Now.
Speaker 3:When Snell wrote this article, it was about four days before the election. He had no clue how it was going to come out. He didn't know if there would be violence afterwards, as some people had predicted. He didn't know if, if it would be electoral college sort of you know get, if there would be a clear winner, if we, we even know by the time. But he had this posted the night of the election in the hopes that it might help guide us as Catholics and Christians. Take a look at how we comport ourselves afterwards whether it was a Kamala Harris victory or it was a kamala harris victory or it was a donald trump victory. And of course, we saw that pretty quickly. They, quicker than many people thought, they called the race for donald trump and the last I checked, he has 312 electoral votes. And what was it? Popular vote of 74 million for him, 70, I think, something like that for her.
Speaker 2:I didn't know, I thought million difference.
Speaker 3:It was about a five million, about a five million different, something like that. Yeah, so at any rate seems like a fairly fairly clear result at that particular point. But I just thought it would be interesting for us to talk about some things that he was talking about in the article. It's a brief article.
Speaker 3:A lot of articles are kind of long when we get them, yeah, but in particular he was commenting, again before the election results were in, that the, the political campaigns had been rancorous, that there were a lot of had been rancorous, that there were a lot of unseemly jokes out there, there were charges of fascism, there was mockery of candidates and those kinds of things. And he goes on to say that it is important that, regardless of the outcome, that we actually do mourn the current tone and the mood of our country, regardless of whether you are on cloud nine because Trump won or you're down at the dumps because Kamala Harris didn't win. The question is, what kind of attitude now must we have? And he makes the case in one of the paragraphs there and I remembered. As I read this, I thought about the teaching of Jesus and I'm going to quote the Bible Father Mario, I hope that's okay.
Speaker 4:That's okay, you may have to explain what that is.
Speaker 3:Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. Now, that particular word, max Bonilla here probably knows more than anybody sitting around here about what that particular word means Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. And one of the things just is we could always say well, I'm mourning my sorry state, you know gloom, despair, agony. Oh me, deep, dark, depression, excessive. Do you remember that song from the Hee Haw?
Speaker 5:No, If it weren't for bad luck.
Speaker 3:I'd have no luck at all. Right, gloom, despair and agony. So you can sometimes mourn your own sort of sorry state Things are not going well for you, et cetera. But I don't think that's what Jesus was talking about. It seems to me he was talking about other things In particular. I think he sort of pegs it here and I want to get our thoughts about this.
Speaker 3:We can mourn the current mode, the mood and our tone, and and this is he gives three reasons. Number one too many of our political elites appear to have contempt for wide swaths of the populace. That's a reason For what? Wide groups of people, big groups of people, to have contempt for A large group of people, half the populace, you know, 50% plus. Again, he didn't know at the time what the outcome would be. It's important that we mourn, I think, at this particular time, and I'll talk about why in a few minutes.
Speaker 3:The second thing he says that the political class a reason to mourn, political class does not seem to produce really serious people. At the end of the day, the people that we are producing, that come up to be the political elites and the movers and the shakers, are not really very serious people. They're not very thoughtful people. More about that. And third, he says that the campaigns themselves seem to be empty of content, and that means serious content, I think, unwilling. I mean it was a lot of stunts and it was a lot of verbal mistakes. He said this, she said that Things that really, at the end, don't matter at all, but we appear, as a people, to be unwilling to talk about our huge national debt, about the, the military preparedness, the, the shape of the world, what's going on in in Israel, the Ukraine and now Russia and other places as well, our schools that seem to be failing the cultural divide. It doesn't seem like there's really very serious people. There's no statesman, exactly, there's no people that we can look to and who are thoughtful, who who are careful, who measure their turn, the words and their tones at times.
Speaker 3:And so he says and I think he's probably right that this is a whatever. Whatever happens, we must be careful to not have, as Lincoln said, malice toward others, and it's very easy to have malice these days. We're sort of being trained to have malice toward the other side, or toward, in some cases, the political elite or, in some cases, the political underdogs, whatever it might be. And he goes on to say he said serious, self-respecting people deserve more than what we just experienced in this campaign. Too many people are going to be really unserious and they give way. He says to histrionics that say something like this is the most important election in history, or this is a threat to democracy, or well, it goes on both sides right. So I'm wondering if you guys what your thoughts are about this notion of mourning and asking the question are we a serious and are we a self-respecting people we really respect ourselves? Are we worthy of a democracy this grand? Are we worthy of what's going on?
Speaker 2:Stewart, I will start with you, okay, I think that was a long speech by the way.
Speaker 2:No, I think it was good preparation for our evening, but I have so many mixed feelings. You know, our bible is very, very specific about don't rejoice when your enemy suffers. There are plenty of verses like that in the Torah. Not easy to do, very easy to say, not easy to do. And our culture is very victim oriented and victims, when they feel victimized, have a tendency to want to lash out.
Speaker 2:And I understand the very noble ideology of with malice towards none, with charity for all and it sounds really nice. I absolutely agree with that. But I also have a very long memory and I remember, about the same time, the other side was being called a basket of deplorables or, more recently, we were called garbage. I remember a very popular now ex-popular which tells you something positive, maybe, a very, very popular comedian, red-haired, who has had a picture taken of her carrying a severed, bloody head of trump. Uh, that that's not easy to get over and I think that was part of the reason, by the way, why the democrats lost, because they were so vicious and self-righteous and it's very hard to let go of that in order to be able to say with malice towards none, etc. Okay, and look, every one of our religions teaches to be that way to not hold grudge. Don't hold a grudge. I mean it's biblical, but it's just not easy to do.
Speaker 1:We've got to go to a break when we come back. This is 1070. I will go on. This is 1070 KNTH and we will be right back.
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Speaker 5:The Answer Johnny Angel how I love him, how got something that I can't resist, but he doesn't even know that I exist.
Speaker 9:Shut up, shut up. I'm in heaven, I'm carried away.
Speaker 5:I dream of him and me, and how it's gonna be All the fellas call me up for a date, but I just sit and wait. I'd rather concentrate on Johnny Angel, cause I love him and I pray that someday he'll love me, and together we will see how lovely heaven will be, and together we will see how lovely heaven will be.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to your Show of Faith. Tonight, a special edition with Dr Max Bonilla, doctorate in Biblical Theology, interim Vice President for Academic Affairs at Houston's University of St Thomas. Tonight, a special edition with Dr Max Bonilla, doctorate in biblical theology, interim vice president for academic affairs at Houston's University of St Thomas.
Speaker 1:This is Father Mario. Allow me to respond to that, and I like I'll try to be brief because I did like the whole notion of Lincolns, with malice towards none, and I think that's the key's the key that's the the title of the article yeah, it's really true.
Speaker 1:Now, I agree with that. But I also share a little bit of stewards suspicion, because now please understand, uh, I, I am very suspicious of the left. The left now notice, I didn't say liberals, I said the left, because the left, at its root is Marxist. It's cultural Marxism and Marxism is committed to using anything to bring down what it considers the hegemony of capitalism and western culture yeah, western culture so it's, it's committed to that.
Speaker 1:So we're disciples at least I am a disciple of jesus. I think three of us are four here, a handful of us disciples of Jesus, and so I want, my attitude is of not of malice towards none, but I would say what's the opposite of malice and that is benevolence. And I would call my watchfulness on the left a suspicious benevolence. It's kind of like what we call. Some of the atheist commentators on biblical interpretation in the last century approach the scriptures with what was called the hermeneutics of suspicion. And I would approach the left with that Because, although as a committed disciple of Jesus, I want to have malice towards none and I don't have malice. But I am suspicious Because when you have an organization that has committed itself, first of all it has no moral standards. Because if you're a true Marxist, you will use any way that you can to annihilate your opponent. And if you look at the Marxist understanding, theirs is to decide to destroy the family, destroy civil order and destroy the culture.
Speaker 1:That we have and destroy the religion, its basis, its moral, that's right, and so I think it's naive to say I agree it's malice towards none. I don't have malice, but I think the best time that I can come up with is suspicious benevolence, which is let us work together and let's see. But if your neighbor next door, you know, has a kind of a commitment to destroy you, you are extremely naive if you are just open your door and think that it can all go back to normal because they don't have the same ethics and ethical standards that we do.
Speaker 2:I also find it to be deeply hypocritical on the part of the left who, once the election was over let's pretend bright and early Wednesday morning they were screaming oh, we need to get together, we need to have unity.
Speaker 1:Well, I remember the unity that they had under Obama with the yeah, but unity has to be unity in principle. So this is when people come up to me and say Jesus was open to all. Yes, he was open to all, but he didn't leave you where you were. He was open to all with definite criteria that you had to repent. Max, you want? To say something about this.
Speaker 4:Yes, as I perceive what is happening today in the Western world not just here in the United States, but around mostly the Western world I just here in the United States, but around mostly the Western world is, I think, the problem we have in, I think, snell. Rj Snell addresses in some degree what we're lacking here is an anthropology. We don't have a foundational anthropology that recognizes the truth of the human person in the proper way that the Judeo-Christian tradition has espoused and proposed. And when we lack that there is, it becomes.
Speaker 4:Pope Benedict, I used to work for represent projects of the Vatican Foundation, joseph Ratzinger, and one of the things that it was clear that needed to happen and Pope Benedict made this very clear in his papacy was that if society loses its roots, its Judeo-Christian roots, then it will lose track of where it needs to go. And that is exactly what is happening today. The tension and the constant difficulty between not just the right and the left, but every possible variation in other aspects within the spectrum, often seems to be to me a problem of education. People have lost sight of what the meaning of the human person is, and once you do that, then anything goes. Pope Benedict used to say that if you lose track of that, then everything else is just a human construct, and you're then at the mercy of whoever has power.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's really all about decisions of power these days, exactly.
Speaker 3:So yeah, we'll come back to this. I'd love to hear from Rudy as well.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you, I have power right now you have power.
Speaker 3:We will bow before your power. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I have power to say this is KMTH 1070 and we will be right back.
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Speaker 8:The answer.
Speaker 4:He was born in the summer of his 27th year, coming home to a place he'd never been before.
Speaker 1:He left yesterday behind him. Might say he was born again. Might say he found the key from every door. When he first came to the mountains, his life was far away On the road hanging by a song. And now the mountains saved him, but the string's already broken and he doesn't really care.
Speaker 5:I don't think that's exactly what he's saying. Well, listen, listen. But now.
Speaker 1:He broke his head and he doesn't really care. He changed his mind in old Laskar. He broke his head and he doesn't really care.
Speaker 2:He changed his mind in old Laskar.
Speaker 1:He changed his mind in old Laskar to wear it. Does he mention God in there? I do. That's why I said about this the mountains don't save you.
Speaker 2:He's not saying they save you.
Speaker 1:I think he's talking about a different kind of eye, yeah. Welcome back to a show of grace.
Speaker 6:Okay, yeah, yeah, father Mario does not like that song because it seems like it's he To Michelle and Freddie.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, yeah, father Mario does not like that song because it seems like it's.
Speaker 2:He doesn't like any song I know.
Speaker 1:I love something, Buffalo Springfield.
Speaker 2:Right, yes, you like that song. No, but Rocky Mountain and the Carpenter song.
Speaker 1:It just secularizes. It's almost like his life was wrecked to old and all of a sudden he'd go into colorado and go hi, I found my life anyway.
Speaker 3:It didn't work, for you did it. You came from colorado we're talking about. We're talking about an article that was written by rj snell in public discourse. It's entitled with malice toward none, which is a statement made by by lincoln in the second inaugural address, with malice toward none, which is a statement made by by lincoln in the second inaugural address, with malice toward none and charity for all he said.
Speaker 3:And you know, and, and we're going to move forward in this, in this time, and we're asking the question, given the results of the election, how ought we to be, how ought we to think, how ought we to conduct ourselves with our neighbor? And I want to hear from rudy down there in guatemala, uh, first, because with our neighbor. And I want to hear from rudy down there in guatemala, uh, first, because and we come back, I want to hear again from max to get him to to say a bit more about the idea that we have sort of lost our way because we have sort of legitimately set aside this notion of what is a human person. Rudy, where are you man?
Speaker 11:Hey, I am here and we're glad you are. Yes, thanks, you know, dr Cates, you asked something critical Are we worthy of this great democracy? And the answer to that is yes. I mean we're inherent of this creation and creation is fundamentally good, right, I mean we're created in the image and likeness of God, and God doesn't make mistakes, but we're not dealing like Dr Mack said. I mean, he kind of hit it right in the head. You know, I read in the news I think this was yesterday where and this is a terrible thing but a man murdered his two sons, his wife, and then committed suicide because Trump got elected. I mean, this is the sort of deranged narrative that there seems to be, kind of like this ultimatum of this polarization right, that it's only this or that, it's this or that. So malice toward none, what was that?
Speaker 2:I was just going to say it's also the rhetoric, because rhetoric has its repercussions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, words have power, right.
Speaker 11:Yeah, and you know we live in these times where there's a lot to criticize about our government, right, but the reality is and I think people lose vision of this is that we live in a time and a place where we've never had this much security, we've never had this much health care, we've never had this much security, we've never had this much health care, we've never had this much wealth. And, unfortunately, especially in the United States, I mean a president and a party can be elected, there are certain terms for presidential elections, but there's a complete lack of long-term thinking, at least in my opinion, a complete lack of long-term thinking, at least in my opinion. You know, everything is kind of very so short-term and focused, and I think if there was a way to kind of get out of this sort of I don't know, it's like a popularity metric that we get into. And there's all this money. I I mean the amount of money that's being spent on these campaign ads.
Speaker 1:It's just unbelievable, it was everybody over two billion dollars yeah one point, one point, two billion on harris's uh, and you know, you know who could use that money.
Speaker 9:Uh, you know people university of st th Thomas could use $2 billion right, we'd love to have it.
Speaker 3:That'd be a great thing, wouldn't it? Well, I started off by asking sort of the question are we a serious and self-respecting people? And one of the things that Max mentioned a moment ago is it okay if I call you Max, sure, sure, no, no, no, is it okay? Your holiness would be good. Your holiness, yes, no, no, no, is it okay. That's good. Your holiness would be good, your holiness yes, no, no.
Speaker 4:That would be thoroughly inappropriate For multiple reasons. My wife will tell you why.
Speaker 3:Mario goes by your adequacy. Yeah your adequacy? Barely so. A part of it is education, is training is thinking. We have abandoned a fundamental idea about what is a human person, and explain a little bit more what you mean by that.
Speaker 4:The educational system in the United States has shifted towards a professionalizing industry. Professionalizing industry, we are creating professionals, and we have forgotten to give the human formation the liberal arts formation that used to be very typical of a university education, a university formation, and in the process, over time, generations, now several generations the notion of what is the full value of the human person, not just as someone who can produce something, but someone whose value intrinsically, who is intrinsically valuable, is lost to us. So then it is easy to have malice towards the other because you don't assume the goodness of the person from the start, you don't assume that they are also creating the image and likeness of God, as Rudy just told us. We forget that and therefore it's easy to treat them as enemies. Always, now, people look one side or the other, and if you look with suspicion and suspicion of malice towards the other, it's easy to not have respect. You almost feel entitled, invited, not to have respect for the other.
Speaker 2:To have more. You have disrespect for them.
Speaker 4:It's not that you don't have respect you have disrespect, you're almost pushed to be disrespectful towards the other. But if you saw the other person the other person is created in the image and likeness of God Almighty then you would say I ought to be immediately and first and foremost respectful towards you.
Speaker 1:The problem there, max, is you use the word ought Without God.
Speaker 2:There is no ought, exactly, there is no ought, but I think that on some levels we have this see, the person know what a human being is on an individual level, but as soon as we start organizing or we become more than just one, okay, when we become a group, it becomes, it almost feeds on itself to start seeing the other side of the aisle as not human, as Hitler, as evil, as a fascist, as all the epithets they've been using for the last year, yeah, and it's been really on both sides too.
Speaker 3:Let's be honest, it's on really on both sides too, let's be honest, it's on both sides I'm sorry, david.
Speaker 2:In my opinion far more on one than the other.
Speaker 3:Well, what I'm saying is that, historically, when you look at people who are demonizing another group, these people are liberals, they're this, they're this, they're this. And once you label somebody, I don't have to take you seriously any longer. Right, I don't have to really listen to you because I've pegged you as this and you're a part of that group and I think you're exactly right.
Speaker 2:It's not as an individual, but now you're a part of a group, that I'm opposed to, and I think when we become a part of a group, it becomes easier for us to do it to the other. Yeah, it becomes easier for us to do it to the other, because as we feed off of each other in our group Mario, you bring this up the group against the one, the something I can't.
Speaker 1:Oh, rené Girard. What is it, rené Girard who said it?
Speaker 2:It's called unanimity minus one, minus one, and that's what the group does. The outsiders are not just one. They're another group, but they're still the same idea.
Speaker 1:I was going to say that If you think about the whole issue of power which is Max, you brought it up you say we've lost the respect for one another. What happens is, when everything comes down to power, the easiest way to have power is to focus on an enemy. That's what René Girard calls unanimity minus one. You pick a group, you pick a person that is your enemy and you unite according to your dislike for the one person.
Speaker 4:That's the whole notion of sacrifice, the scapegoating that he teaches the scapegoating.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, so yeah, that's something I think we have descended into. I think what you said is exactly right. You hit the issue at the root. We've lost, not lost Abandoned. We've abandoned, that's a better word. We have abandoned the roots of the tree in which we live. The fruits come from the tree, and the tree is the Judeo-Christian anthropology.
Speaker 4:See, without God, without God, we're nothing more than a collection of molecules. And if we are nothing more than a collection of molecules, then the power dynamics depend on who has more power than the other, Whereas in the West was built precisely on the notion that there is a God who created us in His image and likeness and therefore we have a dignity that we cannot relinquish and we cannot take away from the other. That means, then, that the value that we have is not negotiable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, inalienable rights.
Speaker 4:Which requires us, if we are true to it, but we've abandoned that. If we're true to it, we would be profoundly respectful of every side, not just two sides. There are many sides.
Speaker 1:But you know you need to use the word. I love the word respect if you listen. If you break the word, re to do it again. And spect is to look. The problem is I can look at somebody and feel anger, but because I am a christian, I am bound to respect. Inside of me I hear look again, because you are not looking through the eyes that you claim to do that. I claim to try to view reality through the eyes of of the lord. And so respect is you have to take back your human anger and your human and your prejudices and your predisposed notions, and then you have to bring up and say no.
Speaker 1:I am looking at you according to the way that I've been taught by my Lord.
Speaker 4:R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
Speaker 1:That's what it means to me, and this is Dan Stavity, pnth.
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Speaker 12:Hey, it's Andy Hoosier with the Voice of Reason. You know your favorite conservative talk radio show where we cover the latest current events, recap your week, have some deeper discussions and have some fun, sarcastic, witty and original perspectives to the issues that matter to you. Yeah, you know the show. Be sure to join me every Saturday right here and enjoy the most energetic, fast-paced, intense couple hours of conservatism on the radio. It's the Voice of Reason and it's all right here. Join me Saturdays at 7 pm right here on AM 1070 and FM 103.3. The Answer Is the season done and dead again.
Speaker 9:When the time to have a breakfast I'm gonna have A time to be born, a time to die, a time to have A time to breathe, a time to kill, a time to heal, a time to have A time to breathe.
Speaker 3:Welcome back, go, david. Yeah, we're talking tonight about with malice toward none. Now that comes out of Lincoln's second inaugural address. Let me quote a little bit further into it where he says and you know, we were just at the end of the Civil War, at that particular time it was just a very difficult time in our own history. He said With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, strive on to finish the work, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace along ourselves and with all nations.
Speaker 3:It's a great, great line and I think I thought about the Gettysburg Address when I was reading this and I thought about just every word is perfect in that speech. Rudy, I want to come to you in just a second and I'm just wondering what it is from your point of view. Looking at us from down a little bit south of where we are today, does this language of malice toward all toward none, sorry, sorry, malice toward none, sorry, malice toward none, with charity for all, Is that a Christian mandate you think for us, or is that something we ought to really ponder?
Speaker 11:No, I think it is. I mean it really is, it's just. I think, unfortunately, as Father Mario says, it's reactions of a group of individuals that don't have transcendent ordering principles in their lives and, as Dr Mike said, I mean, we become just mere molecules, right, which, funny enough, when we think of it like that, we can't explain how we're held together and much less how we're organized into sentient and conscious beings. And unfortunately, it's what makes so many people so susceptible to such disinformation and propaganda that we find, since the Bolsheviks and before that right, I mean, we have what's called psychological projection and accusation in a mirror, which are tactics that have been used for a very long time. So, yes, we're called to it, but I think we're called to it to be cautious, to be discerning, right, to kind of be wary of this other kind of I don't want to call it darkness, right, but this ideology that wants to just eradicate this notion of God completely from our culture. It's just.
Speaker 3:Well, it's interesting that Lincoln appeals back, you know, with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, in other words, that whatever justice looks like, it really needs to be God's justice. At the very end of the article and this is kind of how I want to leave it and we can discuss it. If today Snell writes we are tempted to gloat or to despair Remember he wrote this before the election Whether we're tempted to gloat or despair, curse or mock, it would be far better for ourselves and for our children to quietly pray or study, to rake the leaves, to invite a neighbor to dinner, to play a game or maybe work in the garage all the things that a self-reliant, free and sober people do. I thought that was a brilliant way to conclude that.
Speaker 3:It is what is the best thing we can do.
Speaker 1:It is while being vigilant being yeah, yeah because I did. You notice what he said? Uh, with malice towards none and charity charity for all, let us seek adjust. Notice, it's not just peace at any cost.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, just and lasting peace.
Speaker 1:Just and lasting peace Right, and in order for just and lasting peace to occur, sadly, it would be nice if we could all be pacifists. But if you're 100% pacifist, you can never call the police, you can never do anything, because all you're doing is delegating violence. And so you have to in this world. That's why the Catholic tradition has what it's called the tradition of the just war theory. You know, I used to love the founder of First Things. I can't remember his name now.
Speaker 1:Professor Richard Newhouse yeah, richard, Newhouse when he said violence, when justified, is not an option but a sad duty. And that's true in the condition of original sin in which we find ourselves, and Lincoln had to do it.
Speaker 3:And that can be. Just that can be just. That's correct, exactly. But rather than gloating, rather than being so, in despair, let's just go out and rake the leaves and cut the grass.
Speaker 9:There's a time for that. Yes, there is.
Speaker 3:And you know study. And invite your neighbor over to dinner, study and pray. Yeah, that's one of the challenges.
Speaker 2:Put out the hand. That's part of that paragraph too. Yeah, and as the saying goes, I'm willing.
Speaker 3:If they're willing, yeah, if Jesus said willing, yeah. If jesus said love your enemies, I mean that's a tough thing to do, right? I mean, love your neighbors yourself, yeah, that's one thing. But to take it to another level, to love your enemies what is that I? Mean how did that? That's a tough, tough, it is tough. But he also called it.
Speaker 1:He also called it when he saw it. I mean, jesus was not exactly benevolent towards the scribes and Pharisees.
Speaker 3:He was tough on them.
Speaker 1:He was tough on them.
Speaker 2:That's one way to put it.
Speaker 1:It's not a matter of you know.
Speaker 2:We do a lot of talking about God and love, but the Bible also talks about God and hate. Okay, that's just as much a part of God's emotional things that God feels as love is. Yeah, and there are appropriate times.
Speaker 3:But is love a feeling, stuart?
Speaker 1:No no, you have to remember, is love a feeling? You have to remember that when you're talking about wrath one of the best things that I've heard is when you're talking about wrath, one of the best things that I've heard is when you're talking about the God of wrath, you compare the God of wrath of the book of Revelation and the God that is at the crucifixion, where he said Father, forgive them. They don't know what they're doing. They don't seem like the same God, but they are. And here's why Because the wrath of God is actually the absence of god. When you take god, a god, who is love with that statement?
Speaker 2:okay?
Speaker 1:well, but when you take god and god who is love, and you take love from the equation, what's left it's wrath.
Speaker 2:You've got a because you are setting up your definition and then operating off of it. Of course, your definition is inaccurate, at best, because the bible also describes god as hated. Well, you're jewish. Hate, he will love what is good?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, of course, but that well, let's not get into that, we can do that next week yeah, I have told you many times I wish I could agree with you, but then you, you were so too wrong.
Speaker 11:Thank you very much.
Speaker 3:Well, it's going to be interesting to see what happens over the next months as Trump puts together his team and transitions and all that happens with that and St Paul continually says you know, pray for those in authority, and I always appreciate it when we gather as a church to pray for the people who are in authority, our governors and our judges and our presidents, every Jewish service has a prayer for the government. Yeah, we do the same as well. Many of our Christian churches.
Speaker 11:Dr Cates.
Speaker 11:Yes sir, I just wanted to add, I think for every person who is religious or finds that this system of governance is better, I think this is an opportunity and I think this is part of what the article was calling for is to be humble, to not gloat, kind of solidifies, let's just say, this group of people as being approachable. It kind of removes that stigma, right, I mean, because when you don't act and I don't want to say like a crazy person, but with hate or with malice, then maybe somebody on the left who's kind of teetering on this spectrum right might say you know what these guys? You know they won. They're not rioting, they're not going out blowing things up. They're guys you know they want. They're not rioting, they're not going out blowing things up, they're not calling people stupid, they're not doing these things like you know, maybe people from rooftops.
Speaker 3:They're not what, sir?
Speaker 2:they're not shooting people from rooftops okay, yeah, there's a lot of violence attack, the attack on Trump.
Speaker 3:Oh, I see what you're saying, yeah.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. This all reminds me of Winston Churchill when he said democracy is the worst, the worst method of government, except for all the others, right.
Speaker 3:And it's messy, it's messy, it really is. I mean to be a people. Our Constitution, our laws and our country was not set up for people who didn't have a morality, Morals right, Didn't have morals and that goes back to what Max said about moving away or ignoring Abandoning.
Speaker 1:Abandoning, that's a great word. Abandoning our anthropology. Yeah, our Judeo-Christian anthropology.
Speaker 3:Our view of the other.
Speaker 1:That's what keeps us tolerating you, stuart.
Speaker 3:Stuart loves that this door swings both ways. He's tolerated us for a long time. We've ganged up on him more than once.
Speaker 2:we always remember and Stuart reminds us he's tolerated us for a long time. We've ganged up on him more than once To put the Hermans hermits.
Speaker 1:We always remember that Stuart, and Stuart reminds us that it takes three Christians to have one job.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, Veterans Day tomorrow officially Grateful for all the men and women who have served and served well for all the men and women who have served and served well, who's given us this opportunity to be in a country that allows us to discuss and to disagree and to have a vote and to change governments without a shot being fired.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 3:Except from rooftops. Except, yes, yes, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, so anyway, next week we'll be together.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Who's in charge next week? You know, I think we're back to rudy.
Speaker 1:Rudy are you back next week I'll take it okay, rudy's in charge, from guatemala.
Speaker 3:All right, very good, and and, by the way, bring your wife along so that she can help. You know, kind of steer you in the right direction, because we know where the real wisdom is right. Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, people. Thank you for listening to the show of faith. Max, it's great to have you back in Houston. We wish you well, Come back. We wish you well at St Thomas University and you're listening to the show of Faith here on 1070 KNTH. Keep us in your prayers because you are going to be in ours.