A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
November 24, 2024 Bridging Tradition and Modernity in Marriage
Is it possible that the institution of marriage is undergoing a transformation? Join our diverse panel—a professor, a priest, a millennial, and a rabbi—as we engage in a spirited conversation about the evolving landscape of relationships. We examine why traditional marriage seems less appealing to men today, exploring insights from James Sexton, a seasoned divorce lawyer, who sheds light on the fears of financial and emotional loss. Together, we question whether romantic love is being burdened with unrealistic expectations in the hunt for happiness and fulfillment.
Beyond the societal pressures and statistics, our discussion takes a deeper dive into the spiritual dimensions of marriage. We challenge the transactional expectations often placed on modern relationships, advocating instead for connections that feed the soul. Reflecting on historical perspectives and the Catholic Church's marriage preparation process, we emphasize the significance of nurturing spiritual bonds and personal transformation as cornerstones for a fulfilling partnership.
As we celebrate two decades on the air, our camaraderie is as vibrant as ever—even without David Capes. We extend our gratitude to the community, especially at St. Catherine of Siena Catholic Church, for their unwavering support. With humor, mutual respect, and a shared bond, we close with our Show of Faith Sunday Night Blessings, promising to keep our listeners in our prayers as we wish them a joyful week ahead.
Something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear. Man with a gun over there Telling me well, I got to beware, stop. What's that sound? Everybody, look what's going down. There's bad lines being drawn, nobody's right, everybody's wrong. Young people speak in their minds.
Speaker 2:They're getting so much resistance from behind. Stop what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down.
Speaker 1:Welcome to A Show of Faith where a professor, priest, millennial and rabbi discuss theology and philosophy and anything else of interest in religion. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, we would love to hear from you. Please email us at ashowoffaith at hotmailcom. Ashowoffaithathotmailcom. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much everywhere podcasts are heard. Our priest is Fr Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St Cyril of Alexandria in the 10,000 block of Westheimer. Hello. Our professor is David Capes, baptist minister and director of academic programming for the Lanier Theological Library. But we are real priest, real minister, real rabbi, and David could not be with us tonight.
Speaker 1:Rudy Cohn is our millennial. He's a systems engineer, has his master's degree in theology from the University of St Thomas. And there he is. I am Rabbi Stuart Federer, rabbi Emeritus of Congregation Sha'ar HaShalom in the Clear Lake area of Houston, texas. Jim Robinson is our producer and engineer. He's the author of the book I Am With you Always, matthew 2820, a daily devotional. Corey and Miranda are our board operators and together, jim and Miranda and Corey help us sound fantastic. We were voted number one show, absolutely Best show on a Sunday night.
Speaker 3:Best radio show on a Sunday night.
Speaker 1:Yes, we should take that vote again next time, next time we have four people, we'll get four out of four, we only have three now. So yeah, we could take a vote, but then we could say it's unanimous if we wait for him.
Speaker 3:I would rather wait for David. I agree. Unanimously voted. Unanimous. We carried the popular vote.
Speaker 1:We carried the popular vote and the electoral college, and the electoral college too, absolutely.
Speaker 3:It's an amazing thing to think about that we're not popular.
Speaker 1:You know, I thought that maybe I'd get these little bitty awards, and then we could say we're an award-winning group oh, yeah, yeah. I could get four or five or six of them and hand them out and say we're award-winning.
Speaker 3:I'll give yours to you and you give mine to me.
Speaker 1:There we go, that'll work and we could truthfully say we are an award-winning group.
Speaker 3:I think that's a wonderful idea.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I will do that. I think you ought to do that and we can have our pictures taken with little awards by the way you know that right now November of 2024, we are on the air in Houston for 20 years straight.
Speaker 3:Gee that's an amazing thing, right, and I've been with you 16.
Speaker 1:At least 16, maybe more, maybe 17. Because you started when you were still at 950 KPRC PRC and then we moved over here, which was 15 years ago. So that's at least 16 years ago. You mean, I have endured you for 16 years. Yes, you put up with us all, not just me, marhimm. You put up with us all, not just me, marhimm.
Speaker 2:You put up with us all, and I'm not going to say that we put up with you.
Speaker 1:Oh no, no matter how true it might be.
Speaker 3:I would like to. Before we get going, I want to give a shout out to the people of St Catherine of Siena Catholic Church. I celebrated the Eucharist there this morning and met a lot of wonderful people there and I told them about the show, and many of them are probably listening.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3:I told them how bad you were and how good it was.
Speaker 1:They're going to hear it tonight because I'm the show director, so yes.
Speaker 3:I often tell Rabbi Stewart that I would agree with him more and more, but then we would both be wrong, thank you?
Speaker 5:yes, I know.
Speaker 4:All right, more agree with him more and more, but then we will both be wrong. Thank you, yes, I know, all right, all right. The best thing that has happened to a greater audience has been your retirement. Let me tell you. What do you?
Speaker 3:say, the best thing that has happened to our audience is my retirement, because now I'm a rent-a-priest. Oh, I see, I see, right. And wherever I go, you spread the word, I spread the word, and so you know, I've been spreading the word to different places and we get a few more people each time. Good, and when they hear the show, when they hear the wisdom that comes from the Catholic priest, I mean not to say to you guys, but it's okay. When is he coming back, the one you're talking about? Oh, shut up.
Speaker 1:I am the funniest person.
Speaker 3:Yes, you are. You were voted the funniest person.
Speaker 1:By me, by me alone. Okay, so tonight I am the show director and there have been quite a few videos that I have seen on TikTok, on Facebook Reels, on YouTube that are expressing a real change of attitude towards marriage, and I find it scary for a lot of reasons. But there is a New York City lawyer who deals with the ultra-super-wealthy group in New York and is a divorce lawyer, and his name is James Sexton. And go to YouTube and look him up, because he's also voiced the same issues that I hope to bring up tonight, issues that I hope to bring up tonight.
Speaker 1:You'll see videos on YouTube, on TikTok, on Facebook Reels, of women who are at a gym working out, and they'll have a problem A weight is too heavy or something happens with a machine and they yell out to somebody a male, you know, can you help me? And they'll say no and walk away. There's such a fear out there that men hold that they will be accused of something that they're just not helpful. You'll see on all of these same video. You know places to go watch videos. You'll see women complaining about where are the good men? Why aren't they? I'll go to a gym. I'll go to a bar. I'll go to a restaurant, I'll go play, I'll go to a grocery store and men are no longer coming up to me to engage, you know, to hit on me, to ask me out, to date me or something.
Speaker 1:And there are videos after videos after videos of men who will talk about how they are divorced. Actually, james Sexton, the lawyer from New York, talks about this. He says that every single marriage will end either in death or divorce. Well, that's obvious. It is obvious. But what is not so obvious is that over 50% of all marriages end in divorce. He adds to that the idea that, you know, couples are staying together for the children, but they're terribly unhappy in their marriage not all of them.
Speaker 1:I mean not all of them, but he says even if it's 10%, that means there's 60 plus percent of marriages that are divorcing or unhappy. Well, the statistical odd. Would you buy a machine that's going to fail 60% of the time? No, I would not. And these men are saying the same thing about the device whatever you want to call it of marriage. They are totally uninterested in dating. They're totally uninterested in becoming a husband. They're not even looking to date anybody, because they are sick and tired of friends losing their income. And tired of friends losing their income, losing their 20 years put together, 401k losing their house, losing access to their children. And if 70% of all divorces are instigated by the wife, their point is why would I be interested in getting married? It's a losing proposition. Marriage is set up to be against the husband. All she has to do is claim something with no evidence and it's going to be taken as true, because you know, for the safety of the weaker they have to. But that works against the male and they're just totally uninterested.
Speaker 1:And I've seen enough of these videos. I've seen enough of these men who are railing against these women. Where are the good men? You push them away. Your attitude's towards us. There'll be interviews of men and women talking to each other where the woman will say, well, in order to date somebody, he's got to be over six feet tall, he has to have sorry, mario a full head of hair. Speak for yourself. You're bald too. Yes, I am. But they'll say he's got to have a six-figure income, he's got to have a brand new car. On and on, and on and on about what they demand before they'll even go out on a date with someone. And the men are saying to these women I see what you want them to bring to the table. What are you bringing? And they're blank stare, like I don't have to bring anything, just my sweet self, I don't have to do anything for the relationship. And men are fleeing from people like that.
Speaker 3:But not only are they fleeing, they should flee, they should flee, See, and we'll have to talk about the levels that we want to deal with this, because I'm not bringing this up yet as a topic, but the issue. I heard some time ago a couple there's some really really good couples in a movement called Marriage Encounter yes, Marriage Encounter and I heard one couple that was really interesting because they were saying that marriage not necessarily marriage, although marriage is involved but romantic love is being asked, and I'm going to try and remember how they said it, but they said that romantic love is being asked to carry too much of the burden.
Speaker 1:In the marriage.
Speaker 3:Well, of the burden In the marriage, well, of the search for happiness, right. And so when people are getting married, they get married with oh we're in love, and all of this, the emotional part. And of course, what happens is they have built in their minds not only the emotional part of the marriage but the fact that, of all, then you have the people that want the six figure income you know the laundry list of all the stuff.
Speaker 3:And what happens is that marriages like that are in la-la land. They don't exist very often, if ever, because sooner or later, sooner or later, you're going to first of all romantic love does not last.
Speaker 3:And so, Biochemically, it's three years, yes, but here's the issue. But here's the issue. If in life you don't have anything transcendent to look forward to, how do I put it? The Declaration of Independence I've always found it very interesting where it says that we have these rights that are God-given life, liberty, but the pursuit of happiness. Here's the problem the life and liberty. We can argue that later. I mean that's true, but the issue is the pursuit of happiness. How do people nowadays pursue happiness?
Speaker 1:And it is through money and romance Material and material, not just money.
Speaker 3:Well, material and money, okay, right, it leads to it okay all right, money and romance right. Okay, first of all, the romance doesn't last and material is shallow, shallow and not any. If you ever achieve it, if you ever achieve right, and so if that's your entire horizon of the ability to be happy, if you don't have any commitment beyond that, if you've got commitment to something permanent, to God, to a relationship with, to relationships, to relationships but see, but they're not committed to the relationship.
Speaker 1:No, that's true, they're committed to themselves. A lot of them are Right.
Speaker 3:But if you don't have any sense of presence of god, okay, or something transcendent, then your primary commitment is all of my happiness has to come from this relationship, right, and there's nothing afterwards. And so you only what is it? Yolo, you know you only live once and so if I'm stuck in a marriage, I could be happier. This is okay, but I want something more. You don't look to God anymore.
Speaker 1:All you do is well, I need somebody new, because what's going to make me happy is somebody outside of me, that's correct and actually they're right.
Speaker 3:If you don't have a relationship with something transcendent and you constantly need the dopamine of being in love, all of this, sooner or later you're going to get tired, or you're going to have an affair or something like that.
Speaker 1:You're going to look outside.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're going to look outside Now. Ultimately, I want to bring Rudy into this, but right now we have to Right, he's the newlywed. He is the newlywed. I want to bring Rudy into this, but right now we have to Right.
Speaker 1:he's the newlywed.
Speaker 3:He is the newlywed and so, rudy, tonight it is you to give us the marriage perfect, if you know what I'm saying, and you guys may not back me up on this, but that marriage is a three-ring circus. You know that, don't you? Yes, you know, marriage is a three.
Speaker 10:Three rings. Why, mario? What do you?
Speaker 4:mean? Ah, yes, you know, marriage is three, three rings.
Speaker 11:Why, mario? What do you mean, ah?
Speaker 3:I'm glad you asked. Marriage is a three-ring circus, because first of all is the engagement ring, then there is the wedding ring and third is the suffer ring. Right, okay, and so that is three.
Speaker 10:And that's why it leads to divorce.
Speaker 1:That's sarcastic.
Speaker 3:Is it yes?
Speaker 1:it is A lot of these videos I'm watching. They wouldn't say it's sarcasm.
Speaker 3:We cannot become old, sinister men and, Drudy, you're going to have to come in and defend all this we affirm our faith. This is 1070 KNTH the Answer, and we will be right back.
Speaker 8:AM 1070 and FM 1033, the Answer and we will be right back. Am 1070 and.
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Speaker 1:And together we will see how lovely heaven will be. Welcome back to A Show of Faith on AM 107, the Answer. Our discussion centers around marriage, and is it a dying?
Speaker 3:institution Well, and it's unattractiveness, especially to men these days, absolutely. So, rudy, jump in. What do you think?
Speaker 4:What do you think? I think that in popular culture it's become this transactional sort of expectation for marriage. What do you mean? And it means that when you get married like kind of what Father Mario was saying it means that I'm supposed to get something right, I'm supposed to get happiness all the time. I'm supposed to get more money all the time. I'm supposed to get something right, I'm supposed to get happiness all the time. I'm supposed to get more money all the time. I'm supposed to get a house or this or that.
Speaker 4:It just turns into this, and I think that's the lie that has been sold to us. I mean, if you go back in history, I mean you can even go back to Aristotle and he argued how integral the concept of marriage was to the police right, the foundation of society, and this was a mechanism to sort of cultivate virtues. And of course, you go past the Enlightenment and we reach now this sort of modern secularism that exists and everything is now sort of contractual right. And of course, the thing that you were talking about, rabbi, the 70% of divorces are initiated by women. That comes from a few research that they did back in 2021. So I mean there's a lot of validity towards this right, but this is what gets me Okay. Think about in today's perspective. Right, a lot of men think of the sort of concept of marriage in a very utilitarian way. Right, and what can I get out of this and what is this woman going to bring to me? Now I'm going to read you just a couple of statistics, if that's okay. Yeah, please, and because I find it so interesting that we, as a culture, we don't really see, or we've been lied to, and I think that's where it stands. So just listen to this one.
Speaker 4:A Harvard medical study found that married men are 46% less likely to die from cardiovascular disease compared to single men. Okay, percent less likely to die from cardiovascular disease compared to single men. Okay, married people have lower rates of diabetes, hypertension and heart and heart disease. Okay, the journal of family psychology found that married people are 20 percent less likely to suffer from health disorders. Now, this is an interesting one.
Speaker 4:A few research studies found that married couples accumulate four times the wealth of their single counterparts. Okay, married men earn 75% more net income than single or cohabitating households. So when you actually look at the statistics of married life, not only do you get richer, you live longer and you're healthier. Okay, so it's just crazy to think that we've been kind of sold this sort of this imminent happiness that we're supposed to achieve by I don't know, by divorce right, because some individuals have not given us our immediate satisfaction in this moment. But everything that you read about marriage and what it does, and put aside the metaphysical for a second right or the transcendental, as Father Mario was saying, you just end up better you get. As Father Mario was saying, you just end up better you get more money, you're healthier, you just are more productive in society, 35% more likely to participate in charitable organizations.
Speaker 1:But if the list goes on and on, how have we been lied to? It's true, what's true? That we're better off if you're married, that a couple is better off as a couple if they're married physically, health-wise, financially.
Speaker 3:But you're still, what's the lie? It's interesting because the statistic then does not take into account the 50 or 60 percent divorce rate. I mean okay, in other words, I I'm having trouble reconciling, because is that only? Is that only counting marriages that work? Because what you're dealing with the marriage what you're dealing with is, if you, let's say, a low figure of 50, you'd get divorced. Are all those things true?
Speaker 1:but they're not true of the 50 to get divorced it's not true after they're divorced, when they're no longer married, it's in the, in the marriage, while in the these are the benefits that accrue.
Speaker 3:That's how I understand it. So if all these benefits accrue, why that rate of divorce?
Speaker 1:And I would say, because of what Rudy and you both said and that's, it's a transaction. It's what am I getting out of it? It's not. Let's join with each other, together and make a life together. It's what do I get out?
Speaker 3:of this. But see, here's the point that I would argue with you and Rudy not argue, but present for your comment, and that is everything Rudy said are material benefits okay? In other words, health is a material benefit, you're healthier, you have more income, okay, and all that stuff and so but the issue is that you're not happy if all you have is is the relationship. Unless there is a, we're working on that relationship and are able to feed the hunger at the center of the human being.
Speaker 3:St Augustine said something that is applicable you have made us for yourself, o Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in you. Now, if you have no relationship with God as you understand him, no matter how much more income and how much longer you live, if all of your eggs are in the, I have to feel good right here and now. I don't care if you're married, all those benefits are not going to relate to you because you have a hole in your life that can't be filled by all those effects, because what they want to fill it with are the material.
Speaker 1:That's correct that's correct.
Speaker 3:So, uh, is it time for? Yes, it is. It's time for to go another break. This is the shortest part of the show, so this is 1070 knth show of faith, and you'll be hearing us on the other side of the break.
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Speaker 2:Weekdays at 5 am on am 10, 70 and fm 103. The answer he was born in the summer of his 27th year, coming home to a place he'd never been before. He left yesterday behind him. We might say he was born again. We might say he found the key for every door. When he first came to the mountains His life was far away On the road, hanging by a song, but the string's already broken and he doesn't really care. It keeps changing fast and it don't last for long.
Speaker 1:Every week I'm reminded to listen to more John Denver. Anyway, this is the show of faith. I am consenting the answer. Welcome back to the show of faith. Really, before we went to the break you were talking about, we've been sold a pack of lies, and then you gave statistics of how a person's life will in fact be better off in a marriage. So I'm not clear. What's the lie that we've been told? Who told the lie?
Speaker 4:Well, that's what's interesting, right, it's who. I think it's a culmination of things. I mean, if we go back a little bit and we kind of go back to, let's say, the enlightenment right, where there's this entire sort of emphasis on individual autonomy and it's like we want to focus more on the experience of life and how we interpret it and how we reach this sort of self-gratification or this self-realization, right, and so essentially it's just. It's just how would I describe it? I mean, I thought of what, father Meyer, I forgot Dr Max Right.
Speaker 3:Max Bonilla.
Speaker 1:I was here a few weeks ago.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and he's talking about that. We've completely lost our understanding of what real human anthropology is. And it's true, I mean we've decided to kind of remove any type of religiosity let's call it or religion, from our culture, from our politics, or at least we've tried to, from our schools, or at least we try to from our schools. And you look, today, I mean Francis and Benedict, they were so clear about this, I mean, and this was, for example, jean-paul II, he gave in one of his encyclicals, right, he talks about as the family begins to erode, so goes the nation and so goes the whole world in which we live. I mean, the family nucleus is the thing that holds us together. And look, we don't have to go too far. I can give you a prime example.
Speaker 4:If you look at African-American families, okay, and specifically in the United States, okay, and specifically in the united states, prior to the 1920s, there was 80 percent marriage rate within that community. Okay, fast forward, today, that percentage is lower than 20. Okay, so when you look at that, right, and we can sit here and dissect the whole thing, but what are the results? More criminality, less fathers, okay, less family, less guidance. I mean, it's just if you want to control people, if you want to make them dependent on a government right, acting as your quote-unquote father, this is how you do it. You have to destroy the family. This is the only way it works.
Speaker 1:So the lies therefore seem to me to be what we are being told is about marriage, that marriage is a good thing. We're being told it's a horrible thing. We're being told that it's not beneficial for the couple involved, that it's not a good thing for the wife especially.
Speaker 3:But I think the issue is the lie is that marriage is a good thing if you're lucky enough that you're in the 50% that it works on, Because 50% of the marriages are not going to survive. And so marriage was not a good thing.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what you're saying, I think it depends on their motivation and why they're leaving the marriage. If they're leaving the marriage because there's not enough materiality, there's not enough.
Speaker 3:No, but all. I'm saying is if we're saying 50% do not work, then marriage is a good thing, if you happen to be within 50% oh 50%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so are you saying it's really? Not a good thing, it's a gamble, but it's a losing gamble because nobody goes into something where there's a 50% chance of losing everything you've got Well.
Speaker 3:yeah, I wouldn't have surgery where there was a 50-50 chance of dying. Case in point, good example. So I don't know, I, I, I. To me, the issue rests on the on the fact of the type of person you choose to marry. Right, if you choose to marry someone that has a solid basis for a personal relationship with something that is transcendent with god, not with god mario well, that's the word yeah, but, but ultimately there has to be something solid.
Speaker 3:We use, we call it god, but there could be a lot of times, people, that you know that well, yeah, their god can be wealth, or god can be yes, but that's not what I mean I know, but god in one, however you understand it. But somehow you've got to have that transcendent rock to be able to stand on if not.
Speaker 4:Let me give you another fellow, mario um. Religiously active couples, okay, and this is agnostic of a particular religion, but them being active has a 20% lower divorce rate than the national average.
Speaker 1:The family that stays together stays together. Yeah, it's a true love. Yes, I mean. Yes, I would say that the 50%? Wait a minute. Wait a minute, rudy. This is to me the crux of our discussion tonight, at least the next little while. What exactly is it that gives them that 20% edge when they are both praying together and then therefore they're staying together? What is it of being part of a church group?
Speaker 3:You know what? Here's my answer to that. My answer to that is that the person who has a relationship with God does not put on the the sole weight of making me happy. My relationship with God is what is keeping me happy. I understand that my happiness is not dependent on another person, but it's dependent on my relationship with God and my commitment is to God and to loving you. Remember what my definition of love to God and to loving you. Remember what my definition of love is. Love, the way I define it is love. At its core is the decision to unite yourself with God in caring for the good of another, no matter how you feel, and if you have that commitment to God, I'm not expecting my partner to be the sole source of my happiness.
Speaker 1:Mario, there's a one of the videos that I'm responding to by tonight's topic from the same james sexton, the new york lawyer is. He talks about how people are so busy nurturing themselves, either with the material, whatever that they forget to. He calls it. You walk by the house plant but you keep forgetting to water it. You're so busy watering everything else, the plant dies. And to him in this one video that's an analogy for the relationships, plural, the relationships with each other, the relationships with God. He's more on the relationships with each other, but he says you don't nurture the relationship, that the important thing becomes taking care of the kids, taking care of yourself, and you forget about the relationship with all the other relationships, with yourself and with the other person and with God.
Speaker 3:Rudy, were you going to say something?
Speaker 4:Well, I was going to say you know a lot of sociologists, they refer to this notion of perfectionism and as a Catholic Christian, right, I understand that. I am sure as heck not perfect and I know I drive my wife crazy and there are moments that just drive me nuts. Okay, but again, I have an understanding that at the end of the day, with her I am better suited to reach and worship God. Okay, and that's the sort of vision I have within my marriage. Right, she's not perfect and I'm sure as heck not, okay. But us, imperfectly, together, we're pretty good at pushing each other to go to Mass, to go to confession, to take the Eucharist, to participate in these sacraments.
Speaker 1:Yes, Rudy, is she sitting there with you? Can she hear what you're saying? No, no, you know how I knew that. No, no, you know how I knew that. No, you know how I knew that, because the first thing you said was she's not perfect, even though you followed it up with I know I'm not perfect, I knew she couldn't be there because of the first part of that statement.
Speaker 4:I could tell you, Rabbi, I am definitely more not perfect than her.
Speaker 1:I'm knowing you still looking forward to meeting her. I'm nevertheless sure that that's true.
Speaker 3:Rudy. Rudy, just tell your wife that she has to embrace her mistakes, and that way she'll give you a hug.
Speaker 4:She does every day.
Speaker 3:Hey, you know we have to wait a little here. Okay, just let me put a, because we have 30 seconds to go before we have to go to a break. Another break, yeah, just a little bit For a little voice of the celibate in the room. Okay, that's me, and let me tell you celibacy, it could be awful, unless you have a relationship with a God that gives you your meaning, unless you're doing it for the right reasons and even as a celibate, as a man who is celibate, I never entered a celibate life with the understanding that I was giving up love.
Speaker 1:I have worked hard. That could only happen, if only only I have.
Speaker 3:Sex becomes equated with love I have worked hard at developing a love relationship and intimacy the word the problem with is that that we interpret intimacy always to mean sexual, and it is not. Intimacy is living inside the other person and so having a sense of love. And so unless you find a way to find love in your life and in deep love, you're not going to be happy, whether you're celibate or you're not either way. And right now I'm not a happy camper because, well, I am, because we have to go to a commercial.
Speaker 1:Yes, and they keep us on the air.
Speaker 3:We're very happy about that. This is 1070 KNTH the Answer and we'll be right back.
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Speaker 3:The answer this is poor Celia. I mean the guy is yeah, but it's the guy Right. I mean he comes back to bed.
Speaker 2:Someone's taking his place Promiscuity.
Speaker 1:This song is promoting promiscuity.
Speaker 2:Actually you're saying you're breaking my heart. I'm down on my knees. I'm begging you, please, to come home. Can you do it, cecilia? You're breaking my heart, you're shaking my heart, you're taking my confidence daily. Oh, cecilia, come down on my knees. I'm begging you, please, to come home. Now here comes part of the story. Making love, making love in the afternoon, with Cecilia up in my bedroom Making love. I'm made up to wash my face when I come back to bed. Someone's taking my place. Jesus, this can't go out of the house, man.
Speaker 4:Yeah, really Dumper, dumper.
Speaker 1:Anyway, anyway, yes, we were talking on the break about how we, as clergy Right, this is the important thing to me tonight is how do we get across to our congregation, to our membership, to people who come to us, who are we're all the good men? How come I can't be happy this kind of thing?
Speaker 3:Well, here's the answer I have.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:One. First of all because I get people who are saying I'm looking for somebody to get married, I'm in a hurry to get married. I say don't, Don't be in a hurry to get married. You say to God, you know, I would love to get married, but I want to marry to the right person, Okay. And so don't say I'm hunting to get married, Okay.
Speaker 1:Because then it's the marriage, the wedding that counts. That's right.
Speaker 3:And you're not going to, not the relationship. That's right. So first of all, just say, lord, I would like to be married, but my relation, my happiness, does not depend on me being married. It's my relationship with you that is ultimately the source of my happiness. So stop putting your happiness on the shoulders of marriage. Okay, your happiness is your relationship with God. If it happens to also include marriage, great Okay. But don't put that burden on. I have to be married in order to be happy, because you're already starting on the wrong foot. Then, second part is what we were talking about. When a couple comes to a Catholic church the normal procedure, but they're already a couple. Yes, they come and they say we'd like to get married. This is not where you get. You know, you kind of get the guy the movie thing, or you get the priest up in the middle of the night and he says hey, father, can you do it? No, no, our marriage preparation is minimum four to six months In length, in length.
Speaker 1:How many times a week? Well, no, just you know once or twice, once a week, once every couple of weeks.
Speaker 3:But it's months long, months long, because we make sure that you understand what it is that you're doing, and we have them meet with counselors, we have them meet with priests and stuff like that, and even then there's tons of divorce. But at the same time I think it brings it down a little bit so do I and what are the topics that are discussed?
Speaker 1:It can't only be now. You have to love God.
Speaker 3:No, no, there's all kinds. There's money, there's relationships with family, there's your expectations. How do you fight? How do you plan on nurturing, how do you plan on raising your children? All kinds of stuff like that. Rudy, you went through marriage. Did you go through marriage prep down in Guatemala or Brazil? Yeah, we did it.
Speaker 4:So we did it online. So we got married in Brazil, but we did it through Zoom for a few months and, yeah, it was like two hours every Saturday. We had material, we had lectures. I mean, we had to discern. It's a whole thing, you know, and it really gives you questions for things we have to consider To talk about, for example, like kids life, where do you want to work the house? What are we going to do? How are we going to pick? Like there's things that you need to talk about so that when you get married, you at least have some base of discussion. That's already happened.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 4:That wasn't kind of like, oh well, you never told me this, you know, and it's like having kids, for example. Right, it's like no, we talked about it and of course as Catholics we have to be open to life. So it's pretty kind of cut and dry, right, let's see. But the basic conversations that you need to have with your partner and I wanted to add one more thing, I mean telling people to wait, you know, and to not kind of rush into things, is good, but that doesn't mean that you need to go around experimenting and running around and, you know, kind of I don't know all bitty-nilly, doing whatever you want. I mean, this isn't the time for the revolution all over again. Right To be pragmatic and to be careful.
Speaker 3:No, what I was going to say is that what bothers me, and I've had several people throughout my priestly career that I've seen that were so desirous of getting married that they were willing to talk themselves into a relationship that really wasn't good for them Because thinking that they were going to change the person you know thinking that.
Speaker 1:But I love him and it'll change for me.
Speaker 3:It'll change, or something like that. That's why I think one of the central things for a single person, even if you want to be married, is to accept that that the way your life is going to turn out is really is a dance between you and god, and and you have to do a to a large degree you have to say lord, whatever you want. This is what I would like, and if it be your will, I would appreciate it that way. But if it's not in the cards, I know that my happiness depends on you, not on my being married, but Mario what?
Speaker 1:happens and this ties in with what Rudy was saying is that because they have this ideal of what they're seeking that has nothing to do with God or reality, that they're trying to maintain this kind of aura of everything's wonderful, everything's great, they're not going to have the conversations that the Catholic the marriage preparation Thank you, the marriage preparation will force them to have.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because they try to avoid anything that will be irritating or making one of the couple uncomfortable. So they avoid it, they don't talk about it. Then all of a sudden they're in the middle of it and then they crumble Boom.
Speaker 3:Rudy, anything there for you.
Speaker 4:According to the National Marriage Project they did a study back in 2020, and couples who undergo premarital counseling right of some sort, which would include marriage prep right, are 31% less likely to divorce.
Speaker 4:Okay, that's a third Give, or take is a third, when you look at these statistics, right, I mean I understand it's kind of interesting when you look at averages, right, like 50%, like we're talking about average of averages. But what's really scary to think about is that outside of religious couples the marriage rate is actually way higher. It's probably like 75% or 80%, right, right, I mean that's where that's being driven. Now, I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I mean, paul Amara, you know this better than I do, right, it happens, of course, with Catholics and everybody.
Speaker 1:Yes, it does this. James Sexton, the lawyer from New York. He said there is no more often that if one person of one religion marries another person of another religion. If it's, there are no, no, every single thing is across the board, in every single detail. It's not just one group, it's not just this group, it's not just that group, it's not when this group marries that group or that group marries it, it's everybody across the board. Well, that's because it's actually the power of the formation of character that that culture has. Power of formation of culture. That, yeah, okay the character is.
Speaker 3:You are formed by the ideals of your society and what's happening is that our ideals of society have become secular totally, and that means you're expecting happiness in this world to To material and to come from outside of it. And not only that, your hunger for happiness because your hunger for happiness is directly tied to your relationship with God your hunger for happiness will never be fulfilled in this world, and so you keep looking for it.
Speaker 1:And how do you get that idea across? They're already coming to you for the marriage counseling. Oh yeah, Okay, but how do you get that idea Do you talk about?
Speaker 3:it with teenagers? Well, I do, yes, but all the time I talk about the definition of love, because you know, that's the whole notion. You know, I, I always, I, I always remind me, remind my teenagers whenever I teach them. I said, you know, and I was teaching, imagine me teaching in front of 30 or 40, 50 teenagers and I'm saying I'm, I just want you to know that the day you're sitting in a car and you're making out with somebody, okay, and you're going, and the guy I'm especially talking to you, girls first the guy says I love you, I love you, prove your love to me. You know what I want you to have in your mind. I want me to come into your mind. What did Father Mario say? Love is Love is the decision to unite yourself with God in caring for the good of another, no matter how you feel. Does this guy really want what is good for me, right? Or is he wanting to just getting my pants?
Speaker 3:And if you're a guy. Don't say just because you're sexually excited. Don't say I love you because all you want is to get in her pants.
Speaker 1:Nothing to do with love.
Speaker 3:That has nothing to do with love.
Speaker 1:You know, I know we don't have much time and we certainly don't have time to talk about it, but I still have to say that I think a part of our culture that is formulating a lot of people's attitudes is a direct result of the feminist movement.
Speaker 9:To a large degree.
Speaker 1:I forgot how long ago, but it could be five, ten years there was an approach to marriage. That was the first.
Speaker 3:Wedding is for practice, yeah, but you know the problem with feminism, and it's not all feminism. No it's not.
Speaker 1:It's true, but the problem with feminism is that, instead of seeking a deeper understanding of human sexuality, feminism said women should be able to imitate men and they are and having casual sex, divorcing and having casual sex so it was almost 30 minutes 30 seconds, but it was almost to a point where I was seeing divorce as being a rite of passage and a badge of honor to the feminist movement that you had to be divorced and it elevated your status within the feminist community.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you for listening to us. We're here in the Show of Faith. We're here every. Sunday night from 8 to 9 o'clock at night 20 plus years, 20 plus years. So keep us, please, in your prayers. You know why Because you are always going to be, you know where You're going to be in our prayers. Have a great week.