A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
December 8, 2024 Religion, Philosophy, and the Quest for Meaning in Modern Life
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What if atheists and theists alike are guided by a form of religion or philosophy? Join Rabbi Stuart Federo and Fr. Mario Arroyo as they unpack this intriguing notion, discussing the complex tapestry of belief systems that influence our lives, from secularism to Buddhism. Through the lens of these diverse philosophies, we grapple with life's essential questions: origins, purpose, morality, and the mystery of what lies beyond death. Woven throughout this deep discourse is Fr. Mario's humorous take on allergy struggles, a reminder of our shared human experiences amid profound exploration.
Discover how the word "religion" itself implies a reconnection, beckoning us to re-examine our ties to the divine, the universe, or nature. We dissect the etymology of "religion" and explore the foundational questions it seeks to answer. Through a comparative journey of Jewish and Christian perspectives, we consider different paths to understanding life's purpose and moral frameworks. Our exploration offers a fresh perspective on how these ancient questions permeate our existence, urging listeners to reconsider the ultimate concerns and connections that guide them.
As we ponder the fate of the universe and the nature of eternal punishment and forgiveness, our conversation veers from scientific theories to spiritual beliefs. We tackle moral relativism, the necessity of an external moral authority, and the ultimate destiny of the universe, contrasting varied scientific and religious insights. This episode invites you to reflect on the importance of mercy, repentance, and the transformative power of belief, rounding off a thought-provoking dialogue that intertwines the cosmic with the everyday.
Discussion on Religion and Philosophy
Speaker 1Nothing happening here . What it is ain't exactly clear man with a gun over there Telling me well , I got to beware . I think it's time to stop .
Speaker 2What's that sound ? Everybody look what's going down .
Speaker 1There's bad lines being drawn . Nobody's right , everybody's wrong . People speak in their minds .
Speaker 3So much resistance from behind .
Speaker 4Stop what's that sound ? Everybody look what's going down .
Speaker 1Welcome to A Show of Faith where a professor , priest , millennial and rabbi discuss theology and philosophy and anything else of interest in religion . If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say , we would love to hear from you . Please email us at ashowoffaithathotmailcom . Ashowoffaithathotmailcom . You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard . Our priest is Fr Mario Arroyo , retired pastor of St Cyril of Alexandria in the 10,000 block of Westheimer . Good to be here . Our professor is David Capes , baptist minister and director of academic programming for the Lanier Theological Library , but he cannot be here . I am Rabbi Stuart Federo , retired rabbi from Ar HaShalom in the Clear Lake area of Houston , texas . Jim Robinson is our producer and engineer . He's the author of the book I Am With you Always , matthew 2820 , a daily devotional . Corey and Miranda are our board operators and together , jim and Miranda and Corey , help us sound fantastic Because we are Of course Absolutely Of course Well , mario you're it Once more time .
Speaker 3I am , I am and actually I'm really kind of excited about what we're going to do tonight , because this is something , a subject that is near and dear to my heart . Okay , and the question is first of all , I want to spend just a little time talking about what we mean by the word , what I'm choosing to mean by the word religion , during our discussion , because there are many different definitions of religion and , if you get , if we don't define the term , this is Well , we know that there's only one definition and that's yours .
Speaker 1That's correct .
Speaker 3Thank you , well , we know that there's only one definition and that's yours . That's correct , thank you , but anyway . So , and then we're going to , basically , once we agree on the definition of religion , then we will talk about what are the four basic questions that have to be answered by your religion . And it is my contention that everybody has a religion . Oh yeah , everybody , including atheists and people who say they have no religion . They have a religion . That's why we need to identify , to define the concept .
Speaker 1Right . There are those who will say that Buddhism isn't a religion , or Islam is not a religion it's a way of life . There are people who say that about Judaism too .
Speaker 3Well , atheism is a way of life , you know , secularism is a way of life , a way of life , yes , you know , pragmatism is a way of life and answers in their own way the four questions that you're bringing forth . That is correct .
Speaker 1So let's begin with a number . You'll have to excuse me . My allergies have been really . Oh , mario . My doctor told me that ragweed came , you know , sprouted with their pollen , two months early this year .
Speaker 3Well , let me tell you , my allergies have really been going crazy .
Speaker 1I apologize to all the people in the audience , but Mario Show of Faith has to apologize every week for our show anyway . What can you do ?
Speaker 3Anyway , let's begin with the definition of religion .
Reconnecting With Ultimate Reality Through Religion
Speaker 3I always like to depart from etymology . I am the etymology king of etymologies . I know that words develop and words migrate , but it's always , I find , it interesting , that when you study words , even though words may migrate or change , meanings Evolve , evolve , but it's always important to study their archaeology . It's the archaeology of language . In other words , if they migrate from one thing to another , it means that they once meant something and then they evolved slowly into something else .
Speaker 1But I think that knowing their etymology gives us an insight into the word and its usage , that is correct .
Speaker 3That is correct . So I want to begin with the word , taking the word religion apart .
Speaker 1Right , and our long-time listeners know what you're going to say .
Speaker 3That's right , okay , so the word . For those of you who have never heard this before , the word religion is actually a very simple etymology and , by the way , etymology is the study of the origin of words , not entymology . That brought me buggy . Yes , entymology is the study of insects . Etymology is the study of words . So the word religion . The first thing you begin with is taking the word apart , and the word comes apart in two places Re . Anytime you have the word re or the prefix re in front of anything , it always means do it again . So , for example , rewrite .
Speaker 1Reframe rewrite .
Speaker 3Repaint , restudy Redo , redo , whatever , okay . So re already means do it again , okay . Then you have ligion , and the word ligion is a form of the word ligio or ligia . It's interesting because in Spanish the word liga means rubber band .
Speaker 4Really .
Speaker 3It means rubber band , and so the word ligare or ligio means to bind together . That's why , for example , you have the baseball league , oh wow . Or you have the football .
Speaker 1I've never said that before .
Speaker 3Yeah , football league League from the word lig , right , or the League of Women Voters , right , okay . So that's basically the word ligad , or league means to bind together , right . So now put the two parts together Re ligio , reconnect , reconnect . Now the question that you have to ask . Well , wait a minute , two things . One , if you're going to reconnect something , that means two things . One is what are you trying to reconnect ? And second , why do you have to reconnect them ? Why can't you just connect them instead of having to reconnect them ? Why can't you just connect them instead of having to reconnect them ? The connection that we're talking about is you , the human person , to what others have called the ultimate concern or the ultimate root of all reality . All reality at its source has something . We don't know what it is , but we know human beings have known that we are in some way or another disconnected from the original center of reality . Whatever that is .
Speaker 3Let's just not even define it . We are disconnected from whatever the center of reality is . Some people call it God , some people call it the universe , some people call it luck .
Speaker 1And you may even limit it to we're disconnected from each other , could be Disconnected from nature . We're disconnected from each other . Could be Disconnected from nature . We're disconnected .
Speaker 3Okay , so religio means reconnect . Now , that ultimate reality that we know is above , because we know we are what's called a conditional reality . Okay , conditional reality means we are not . We are not , we don't exist because we have to exist . We have been brought into being and we will go out of being when we die right , but that's a later question . Yes , but that's it's . It's basically , in other words , is we are contingent , meaning we are caused by something else , but we did not cause ourselves and we are not the center of reality .
Speaker 3Some people think they are but we're not the center of reality . So we know we're disconnected . We know we're disconnected . The question is so , for us , then , religio ? Religion means to reconnect in whatever way you choose , to reconnect to the ultimate question , the answers to the ultimate questions of reality . Right , the answers to the ultimate questions of reality . Now , what we're going to be spending our time talking about tonight are the there's several ways of phrasing this , and some people say 10 questions , some people say five , some people say six . Tonight , we got four Tonight , we just chose four . Okay . And the four questions of reality that are ultimate questions for reality are this Number one how did life come to be in the first place ?
Speaker 3Questions about existence and character of God and or of higher power . Okay , I have a little more expanded than I said . All right , okay . Second , the second question is what is the meaning of life , the purpose of life ? And it inquires , master , why we exist and what our lives should aim to be in this world . Three how should I choose from right or from wrong ? What makes anything right ?
Speaker 1How do we know how to act ?
Speaker 3How do we know how to act ? Yeah , and fourth , what happens after death ? How does this all end ? Where is it going ? Okay , and so the way that you got them , rabbi , I sent them to you .
Speaker 1Yeah , which created a different kind of answer . Why don't you read them the way that Well , it's a different way of stating the same thing you're asking , but that's right , but it still leads to different questions , different answers .
Speaker 1The first one , the way you originally had it worded , is the question of origin where did I come from right ? The second question was a question of destiny where am I going , great ? The third question was a question of purpose why am I here , right ? And the fourth question is a question of morality how do we act ? How do we live ?
Speaker 3how do we ? Let's go with these formulations .
Speaker 1Okay , all right , okay , so now remember , you'd probably prefer to go by your formulation than the original one , right , because I know how I'm going to answer okay , okay , so then we remember I'm talking about .
Speaker 3Religio means every single human being has to answer in some way or another . All these four questions . I don't care if you answer them without God or with God , or however you answer them Right , but you have to answer them . So the first question is how did life come to be in the first place ? Which is basically questions about existence and if there is a god or not , or a higher power , whatever it is . What is the jewish position on that ?
Speaker 1again the way you worded it the first time or the way you're wording it now . Now , well , from god , guy in the beginning , god .
Speaker 3So , uh , the first three words , so the word god that let's say . If I say to you , god is a category , okay , what ? Who is it that fills the category ? Well , how do you ?
Speaker 1what do we know about god ? Is that what you're asking ? Yeah , which god ?
Speaker 3which god , the only god , which God ?
Speaker 1Which God , darrell Bock , the only God . There's only one God .
Speaker 3Richard Averbeck . I know , but there's a lot of concepts of God , darrell Bock .
Speaker 1Ah , once you get to the concept . Now you're delineating between groups . Richard Averbeck yes , darrell Bock Okay . So well , there are certain characteristics I think that we all have in our definition or in our understanding of God . I think that we would all say that God is personal . Okay .
Speaker 3What do you mean ? We all would say that somewhere or another .
Speaker 1If we have a concept of God , then we usually have an accompanying idea that God can know who Stuart Federer is . Okay . And that in Stuart Federer's limited ability I can also know God .
Speaker 3I would like to just resist a little bit . If God is a category , can that category be filled with a non-personal existence ?
Speaker 1Can it or doesn't ? Can it ? Well , it can . Okay , then , all I'm saying is you're reflecting , you can have a rock , and so the rock is God .
Speaker 3That's exactly what I'm saying .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 3That's why I'm saying you as a Jew , yes , and I as a Christian , yes . Would personalize the content of that word Clearly , okay , but not everybody would , and that's true .
Speaker 1Okay , but .
Speaker 3I want to be able to make sure that we include them , but then specifically talk about us Right and our perspectives and our perspectives .
Speaker 1So I would say God is personal . Can know Stuart Ferrell . Stuart Ferrell , as I said in my own limited ability , can know who God is and know about God . Stuart Federer Stuart Federer , as I said in my own limited ability , can know who God is and know about God . Okay , I can read what I consider a text . That is , however you want to understand it , from God , divine , inspired God . Whatever words you want to use . Okay , somewhere along the line you have to say it's from God . Okay , if it's authoritative .
Speaker 3So you're talking about a personal God ? Yes , and we have to go to a break , but we'll continue on this because we're going to get through all these four of these questions . Okay , this is KNTH 1070 , and we'll be right back .
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Exploring the Purpose of Life
Speaker 4Johnny Angel , johnny Angel , johnny Angel , you're an angel to me . Shut up , shut up , shut up , shut up , johnny Angel , how I love you , how I tingle when it bounces by . Every time it says hello , my heart begins to fly . Johnny Angel , how I want him . He's got something that I can't resist , but he doesn't even know that I exist . Shut up , shut up . I'm in heaven . I get carried away . I dream of him and me and how it's gonna be . Other fellas call me up for a date , but I just sit and wait . I'd rather concentrate on Johnny , cause I love him and I pray that someday he'll love me , and together we will see how lovely heaven will be . And together we will see how lovely heaven will be . Yeah .
Speaker 1She sounds . When I say exactly like Karen Carpenter , I mean exactly like Karen Carpenter .
Speaker 3If you can find her .
Speaker 1And I'm going to send it to you and try to remember to do that . Welcome back to A Show of Faith .
Speaker 3Welcome back . Now we're talking about the four basic questions that every single human being must answer in terms of what religion is , and the four basic questions are basically where did I come from , what's the purpose of my life , how should I decide right from wrong and what happens at the end when you die ?
Speaker 1Because these are the eternal questions human beings have been asking , since we've been human beings . That's correct .
Speaker 3Now the Christian . You gave your Jewish answer and the Christian would give a similar answer , of course , because we consider ourselves the sons or daughters of the Jewish religion .
Speaker 1Okay , Fool that you are , but yes , I understand that you believe that ? Even though it's not true . I know we believe that , even though , but , mario , it's not just personal , okay , it's personal and loving , yes , but what is derived from that love Moral God is moral , yes , okay , god is supernatural . That love moral god is moral , yes , okay , uh , god is , uh , supra natural , above and outside of nature , is correct , okay , all of these can be derived from , okay . So we consider to be from the bible .
Speaker 3So we're , and h is holy , okay but we are on , we are in agreement . Now we recognize that , even though you gave a jew , jewish answer and I gave a Christian answer , you were about to yes , well , basically , the only thing is , it's basically the same .
Speaker 1That's what I said . It was overlapping .
Speaker 3Although you know , it's interesting because the identity of God is slightly different between the Jewish and the Christian .
Speaker 1Well , radically different , I would say , but yes , radically different , okay .
Speaker 3Because we believe in the one triune God and you believe in the one single God .
Speaker 1And to us .
Speaker 3I think you told me one time that you couldn't say for a Jew , you couldn't say God is love .
Speaker 1Because God is so much more .
Speaker 3God is not only love . Yeah , see , for us God is love because he is triune and Christianity , god is exclusively love . Well , not love as we understand it in as a human being . But I don't want to get into not now yeah , that's a different topic .
Speaker 3Okay so , but we recognize that whether you believe in a personal god , if you don't believe in a personal god , you still believe in a god , because whatever you put there at the top of your worship , however you put the box in the box , however you fill that box Right , that's God . If popularity is , if money is , whatever you put there , whatever you put , there . Because what we're talking about is really , ultimately , how did the universe begin ? Because you can't say some people say the universe is eternal .
Speaker 1Where do we come from ?
Speaker 3The universe is not eternal , because it's been shown by the Big Bang Theory that the universe is expanding .
Speaker 1And continues to expand .
Speaker 3And so we know that the universe is not eternal . We know that the universe had a beginning point and , as my little limerick which I'll say it right now , because there are people who say well , at the beginning it just went bang , the big bang , and I always ask well , what went bang ? You can't have nothing go bang . And my little limerick is this it goes like this In the beginning there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing . Then , one day , for no reason , nothing exploded into everything , which then became dinosaurs . Makes perfect sense . Of course , that's sarcastic .
Speaker 1That's a simplification , but nevertheless .
Speaker 3Nevertheless . Okay , so that's the first question . We answer it with a personal God , but we know that whoever answers that can answer whatever you put in that box .
Speaker 1That's how we put in the box , but the point that I was making is that's where we come from In the beginning God , god , god created . That's right .
Speaker 3Okay , second question what is the purpose of my oh , rudy , rudy .
Speaker 1Rudy , are you there ?
Speaker 3I am Yay . Okay , let's go with a second question . I don't want to get behind , Rudy , you're first . What is the purpose of my life ? Inquires into why we exist and what our lives should be to achieve . What are you supposed to achieve ? What's the point ? How would you answer it from the Christian point of perspective ?
Speaker 10from the Christian point of perspective , from the Catholic and Christian and , of course , my point of view , I would say my ultimate . Where am I going right ? And we're talking about destiny . My goal is to reach heaven . My goal is something that we , as Catholics , we call the beatific vision .
Speaker 3Right , yes , say that again the beatific vision , the vision of God .
Speaker 10The vision of God right , and it talks about it in Corinthians right , but essentially it's to live eternally with God . That is my ultimate destiny .
Speaker 3How would you say it , Stuart , as a Jew ?
Speaker 1I would not say purpose is to live with God , but I would say the purpose in Judaism is to bring God on earth and to make the mundane and profane holy . So , for example , you have seven days that make up a week . Okay , moon cycle is seven times four is 28 . So seven a week . So we take one day out of the mundane , profane , typical , common , whatever day . We take one out of seven , set it apart , make it different from the other six , and we call it the Sabbath . So we're taking time and making time holy . Or let's say , a person is about to eat a meal okay , this is almost true with all religions , by the way but it's a meal , it's a , it's common , it's every day until we invoke God , we bring God into the issue and that makes it sanctified . Set apart , different , holy , that's what holy means set apart . So our purpose is to take the mundane , profane , typical , common , whatever word you want to use and make it holy .
Speaker 3Okay , we've got to go to a break , and then next time we have two larger segments . This is KNTH 1070 , and we'll be right back .
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Speaker 4He came from somewhere back in the long ago , Said I'm not a fool , don't see trying hard to recreate what has yet to be created . Once in her life she must have smiled . For his nostalgic death , never coming near what he wanted to say , only to realize it never really was .
Speaker 1Welcome back to A Show of Faith .
Speaker 3Okay , so we're dealing with number two , but we're going to go on to number three very quickly . Number two is to what is the purpose of life . Stuart and I were talking during the break and we have a distinction between Protestant Christianity and David's not here to defend himself .
Speaker 1David's not here .
Speaker 3but that's okay , we will try to do the best . Remember Protestants are like miscellaneous .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 3There's all kinds of Protestants 30,000 , but who's counting ? Yeah , Catholic is very different , David . I mean Stuart was criticizing the Protestant belief . That the only reason that I care about is getting to heaven Is getting to heaven what ?
Speaker 1gets my soul to heaven . Period the faith that's right . Faith , faith , faith .
Speaker 3And that is not a Catholic point of view . The Catholic point of view is that we are a desire to go to be with the Lord in heaven , but I said it this way . We do . We , as Catholics , do believe that you are saved by faith alone . However , the kind of faith that saves you is not alone . It has to be out with your behavior .
Speaker 3It's the james and peter argument that is correct , right , and because a lot of people talk about what's called eternal security , which means if I believe in the Lord Jesus , that's it which you told me was Bonhoeffer labeled cheap grace . Cheap grace , rudy , you want to add anything to that ?
Speaker 10well , I mean directly to what you were talking about . I think a lot of it stems . There's a great episode that I listened to recently about Jordan Peterson and he's talking , he's doing this whole thing with the Old Testament , but he talks about belief and one of the things he says is for one , for you to say that you believe something right and to genuinely mean it . That means you act , speak and move in a particular way . Right , I mean , it's not just , yes , we are saved by faith alone , absolutely right . And it's God's grace that , at the end of the day , that we have faith in period . We have faith in period like there's , there's no question about that , right , but there's , there's , there's , there's a lot to that that comes with actually believing and having faith that I think a lot of people don't talk about it I I often like to use this example .
Speaker 3I can say I believe in the in in the eiffel . I've never seen it , but I believe it exists Now . If tomorrow somebody said to me Father , it was all photoshopped , there is no such thing , that wouldn't affect me in the least .
Speaker 1In the least , mario . Did you ever read an essay ? There's no Such Thing as Montana .
Speaker 3No , because I've never seen it .
Speaker 1It's the same Same thing .
Speaker 3But if the doctor came in right before surgery on my brain and he explained to me it's a dangerous surgery , and I said to the doctor I believe in you . That's a different way of saying I believe , Because I used to say I believe in the Eiffel Tower , but it makes no difference to me whether it exists or not .
Speaker 1That's part of the mistranslations of the Hebrew the Bible . Okay , it's more trust than it is faith . That is correct , right .
Speaker 3That is correct .
Speaker 1Okay , emunah .
Speaker 3Okay , let's move on to question number three . Right , because number three this is on the third block right now and we should be answering this one . Basically , it's the question of morality . Right , how should you choose between right and wrong ? Because , you see , as Dostoevsky I think it was who said yes , without God all is permitted .
Speaker 3Whatever is , whatever Right . Because the moment you say this is right and this is wrong , I can say to you who died and left you in charge Okay , right . So the moment you say , morality , that there is anything right or wrong , you're already presuming an opposite .
Speaker 1Well , Mario , what's right to you Is right for you .
Speaker 3And what's right to me is right for me Right .
Speaker 1Right and your morality is for you , but your morality is not for me .
Speaker 3You know , that's what's called relativism , and it's very popular
Exploring Morality and Ethics
Speaker 3.
Speaker 1You know , I could say , well , that's your right and this is my right , yeah , but all of a sudden , we talk about this regularly , but you know what I've concluded with that , what that's for people who don't know how to say the word no to someone else .
Speaker 7Yep .
Speaker 1They don't know how to say you're wrong or I disagree , or they're spineless .
Speaker 3That's correct , and the reason you have to have God is because if there is no one , if there is no referee , everything goes and the authority has to be outside of the humans and above the humans .
Speaker 1That's correct , right .
Speaker 10Rudy , jump in . Yeah , you know I hate to agree with the rabbi here .
Speaker 10We're just showing you intelligence . But I think , rabbi , you're absolutely right , I think it's for spineless people , because even you know , I've talked to some staunch atheists , okay , and when they start talking about and they give me quasi-even rational arguments about why they don't believe something and why they don't think there's a God , you know , but to me it demonstrates people that have actually sat down and thought about something you know , and I think that's the difference . I think too many people , unfortunately , are caught up in this sort of emotional assault , if you will .
Speaker 3that's going on Well when they try to justify it , it's not even a thing , yeah , and I think they just fail to really think about anything .
Speaker 10You know , it's just shallow in my mind . I mean , there's a great scripture saying I'd rather you be cold than lukewarm .
Speaker 1You know , and I think that's the true reality , now more than ever . Rudy , would you please talk about that reference , though You're actually referencing a New Testament quote .
Speaker 3Yeah that reference is from the book of revelation and it actually says uh , because you are neither hot nor cold , I spit you out of my mouth . Comes from jesus in the book of revelation right . I just want to clarify chapter three , the book of revelation . Yeah , what we're dealing with is you know , if you're a relativist , a real relativist , you could not even say that Hitler was wrong .
Speaker 1No . All you can say is you don't like what he did . No , that's right . Then somebody else could come along and say I do like what he did or . Stalin or anybody . I can write thou shalt not murder , and you can write thou shalt murder . And who's to say one of us is right and wrong except another human opinion , that's ?
Speaker 3right and we can dismiss that human opinion .
Speaker 1This is called the moral proof for God , which is the one I happen to ascribe to the most .
Speaker 3Yeah , the one that I happen to ascribe to the most is in the beginning there was nothing .
Speaker 5Right .
Speaker 3To me that's the central .
Speaker 1Have you ever heard a devout atheist what I call the professional atheist try to defend the idea that they too have a moral base that is independent .
Speaker 3It fails .
Speaker 1To me . They're making so many quantum leaps , but I'm not here to defend them .
Speaker 3I just wanted to ask you that . No , it fails , it fails .
Speaker 1I've heard Hitchens or one of those guys try to say oh no , we don't have to have God to have morality , we have morality too . And then I don't even understand .
Speaker 3But you know , you can have a morality , but it has to be enforced by the state , and the state exists because it has power and is and power corrupts and well , but you couldn't even call it corruption , because corruption is already a judgment .
Speaker 1Oh , good point , okay absolutely right , because if you say it's corrupted power , who's to say what it's right ? That is back to the state .
Speaker 3That's right it goes back to the state . That's right . It goes back to the state , right . There's a philosopher oh God I always blank out on his name that always talks about if there is no God , there is a war of all against all , and the ultimate thing is just about power . It's just about power . So it's ultimately who has the most power and who can grab the most power in order to inflict .
Speaker 1Or who can give them the best rationalization for the expression of power , that's correct .
Speaker 3Right , that's correct okay yes let's go on to um . So we , we already , we know , we already know , we've answered number one . Number one is what ? Where did reality come from ? Where do I exist ? We answered it from the Jewish perspective and from the Christian perspective Catholic , okay , yeah , yeah , catholic , christian perspective . Question number two was what is the purpose of life ?
Speaker 1And your answer was very good . In terms of Judaism is much more centered on the here and now . Yeah Right , judaism is much more centered on the here and now .
Speaker 3We , as Christians , are centered on the here and now but I don't disagree with your .
Speaker 1That's not our topic for tonight .
Speaker 3No , but we've got a couple minutes on this one . It's not our topic , but I think you're right . Christians who focus just on the afterlife are really missing the point , missing the point of what Jesus taught . And then the three is the ethics , the question of ethics . What makes anything right or wrong .
Speaker 1Now . But doesn't Catholicism have a belief in natural law ? Yes , that there is some form of innate knowledge of good and evil in the human being . Yep , okay , yep , okay , yep , yep . That's not what Hitchens , or any of them , said when they tried to justify the existence of right and wrong within an atheist perspective . What do they say , mario ? Seriously , I couldn't even recreate what they said .
Speaker 10I'll give you an example Sam Harris , which is probably the most coherent atheist that I've listened to . He argues from this perspective that suffering can be neurologically and biologically measured . Right , because there's certain things that are released in the body when you get a pain , when you get a cut , when you get something .
Speaker 1So , as a human race , right , his moral justification for understanding good is to reduce suffering or to working towards a reduction of suffering , but that automatically presupposes the idea that suffering is something that needs to be responded to and that in and of itself is a moral , ethical command . For lack of a better term , yeah , or to use Mario's word , it's a qualitative statement .
Speaker 10It's like yeah , I agree , Rabbi yeah .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 10Okay , that's the argument that I've heard the most . It comes to any type of sentence .
Speaker 1Yeah so if .
Speaker 10I'm we're still in ontological precepts .
Speaker 1And this may be a little R-rated but if I am a masochist and I obtain pleasure by being hurt , then by that sentiment I should hurt you , yeah because I presume that's what you . A good thing .
Speaker 3Yeah , it makes no sense . This is KNTH and we'll be right back after the break .
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Fate of the Universe
Speaker 7. The Answer is Facebook . Our Facebook page has the news and opinions you can trust , just like you hear from us each day . Go to Facebookcom , slash TheAnswerHouston and click Like . Stay in touch , stay informed . That's Facebookcom . Slash TheAnswerHouston . This is AM 1070 the Answer .
Speaker 4He was born in the summer of his 27th year , coming home to a place he'd never been before . He left yesterday behind . We might say he was born again . We might say he found the key forevermore .
Speaker 1Welcome back to the show of faith .
Speaker 3on AM 1070 Answer Okay now we're on to the last question , and the last question is about the end things . Now , the end things is well . I want to talk about the end things . Now , the end things is well . I want to talk about the end things in terms of human life . What happens after life , after this life , in other words , what happens to your life after death ? Or , and also , what is the future of the universe according to different world views ? Because the future of the universe is part of the answer as to , for example , is the universe to end millions of billions and billions of years from now into a cold , just emptiness , constantly drifting into outer space ?
Speaker 1What would be wrong with that ?
Speaker 3statement Well , no , no , that's the physical . I know , but in the Christian tradition we're talking about a new heavens and a new earth . Okay , that's the Christian tradition , right , but is that purely physical ? Yes , not purely physical , because the whole idea of purely physical doesn't exist . Purely physical reality does not exist .
Speaker 1The only thing that exists is the reality that I wish we had time to pursue that .
Speaker 3The only thing that exists is the reality that God keeps in existence , and that's not purely physical , it's kept in existence by God .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 3So if the universe is being held in existence by God , then it's legitimate to ask the question what would our understanding of God , our religion , say is the fate of the universe ? And has that been told to us at all ? And for us as Christians , we would say yes , there would be a new heavens and a new earth . And because , see for us , you have to remember this is where we depart very radically from each other in the fact that we understand that Jesus rose from the dead . And when he rose from the dead , he kept on saying touch me , do you have anything to eat ? It was physical .
Speaker 1Right , and there are other people in the Bible who are also resurrected , so resurrection isn't what's the big deal , I know , but the resurrected no one . Mario , in four , whatever you said . Billion years , Whatever , it is Okay . Are people going to exist ? Yes , Not In four , whatever you said billion years .
Speaker 3Whatever , it is Okay . Are people going to exist ? Yes , not . We don't know In terms of physical reality .
Speaker 1We don't know , okay , all right .
Speaker 3We don't know , all right , okay , we don't know what will happen , right , even Jesus himself .
Speaker 1But even if there's no physical existence , there's still .
Speaker 3There's going to be the reality of us .
Speaker 1Thank you .
Speaker 3And us is not going to be pure spirit it's going to be . The Catholic Church calls that a glorified body . Right , but we have to word things carefully . Yes , we do , okay .
Speaker 1Yes , we do .
Speaker 3Yes , we do is I want to acknowledge that for an atheist , the physical existence of the universe is that the universe will sort of continue to expand until it is infinitely expanding into nothingness , into so much space between everything I thought there were theories that it recontracts . That's another kind of theory , a different kind .
Speaker 1Okay , yeah it's another kind of theory , a different kind , okay .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's another kind of theory , another theory . Rudy , you're much more the science guy on this . Have you heard either of those two ?
Speaker 10Well , yeah , I mean a lot of . It depends what you prescribe to . But there's the sort of infinite oscillating theory . Then you've got string theory , where there's like infinite universes of creation , and then there's for some prescribed to an infinitely expanding universe . Some say that it's contracting . So I mean , there's just about anything for your flavor . Really Heck . Some don't even believe the Earth is round , that it's flat , and then who knows , you know so it's . There's all kinds of wacky stuff out there .
Speaker 1I mean , it's kind of one of those things about science , isn't it ? And whatever they agree on in 20 years can change to something completely different .
Speaker 3Science is changing too , I think we can stand Absolutely . I still think we can stand in a certain amount of a certainty that the universe , that , for example , that the earth is not flat .
Speaker 10I think you know there are some things that are not worth the opinion that they're written on thank you you would think you would think , father Martin , you would think , but don't underestimate the stupidity don't underestimate the power of the human mind to rationalize anything .
Speaker 3But we can call them stupid , okay , we can call them stupid , okay , we don't have you can . You have the right to believe whatever you want , but you don't have the right to be taken seriously , right , okay , and we don't take those kinds of people seriously .
Speaker 1That would make a great meme . Yeah , you can believe what you want , but we don't have the right to be taken seriously . Okay , and we don't take those kinds of people seriously . That would make a great meme . Yeah , you can believe what you want , but we don't have to take your beliefs seriously . That would make a great meme .
Speaker 3I've said that you can believe anything you want , but you don't have the right to be taken seriously . Right , okay , and so we don't take those people seriously . And so the question is , given the fact that I think the Jews and Christians believe in the authenticity of science , Absolutely . Okay , and most atheists would believe in the authenticity of science . Okay , what are possible outcomes for the universe and for human beings ? Where do you start ? What is the possible outcome ? Annihilation , but for the universe , rejection .
Speaker 10The what , yeah for everything , unless you , annihilation . I mean the Earth is going to end , right . I mean the sun's going to burn out . We could be hit by an asteroid at any point in time , or a rogue radioactive wave that's flying across space . I mean , that's what we have to look forward to as an atheist , is just the eventual ticking time bomb of the destruction of the human race . Yes , I forget the name of this scale . I'll think about it , I'll send it to you guys , but there's a scale this doctor came up with . He actually wrote some science fiction .
Speaker 10But , um , unless we learn to harness energy at gigantic sort of , um , uh size of energy , right of levels , then we can't . Some scientists aspire to this kind of , or this kind of transcendent , energy-based , um , civilization that we can become right , where we can sort of manipulate energy and matter . Um , but again , and then what right ? I mean you're still left with the purpose question , like we can sit here and argue about the infinite oscillation of the universe and what do we do , but you still have to answer the particular purpose of what your life is about . Unless your life means nothing , then , as Nietzsche said , you might as well just end it , because it's just all suffering . Yeah .
Speaker 1Because there's no way , other way to interpret this . It's not just suffering , there's still joy and laughter and humor and love , and at the very end is total destruction but without purpose . There's total destruction of the physical , but you're telling me that they don't , that catholicism doesn't believe in the spiritual .
Speaker 3Oh , no , no no , or the afterlife we do , but Well , there you go , so it's not just physical . You see , you keep making this distinction between the physical and the spiritual , and we do not believe that the human being can exist fully without this body , without a body . We don't believe in free-floating spirits , we believe in the resurrection of the body .
Speaker 1In the time of the resurrection , but until the resurrection occurs what happens to the soul ?
Speaker 3Yes , the soul gets a body in the afterlife . No , we would say Go ahead . You're talking about the particular judgment .
Speaker 10Well , yeah , so as Catholics , we believe in there's an immediate as soon as you die , there's what we call a particular judgment , right , and that's where we'll face judgment and we'll either , you know , if we've lived in grace , in a state of grace and friendship with God . We , you know , will be immediately know that beatific vision . We'll be able to gaze upon God . Those that die that still need purification , of course it's purgatory .
Speaker 3Yeah , that's what we do , and there's hell , so there's that you , as Jews , would hold that either , when a person dies , there is a judgment , absolutely Okay , and then there's a judgment of the unrepentant sins committed to this life , that takes place in the next life .
Speaker 1What Rudy was just talking about , the immediate after-death judgment , okay , okay , look , the Bible is not necessarily monolithic about anything , but there are still certain things in the Bible that we take . Okay , the dust returns to dust where it came from . The Spirit goes back to God who gave it . There's an afterlife , yes , okay . There may be other passages which say the opposite , but Judaism holds to the side that there is an afterlife . There is A judgment in the next life , or the unrepentant sins come in this
Eternal Punishment and Forgiveness
Speaker 1life . Punishment fits the sin . Judaism rejects the idea of an eternal punishment . God is merciful , compassionate , forgiving .
Speaker 3It's very interesting because we believe in an eternal punishment , but we hope there's nobody there , Right ?
Speaker 1right because that right well , judaism says that there are for some things an eternal punishment , but it is so rare and so exceptional that we're not . You know how many people have you murdered lately , mario ?
Speaker 3come on , it's right . So you know the whole issue of repentance for us it . I think we're the same .
Speaker 1Very , very parallel what Rudy was implying about a far-flung future second judgment , okay , where the world changes , mario , and what you were more talking about of this week the new heavens and the new earth , right , okay , and that's very similar . Yeah , and we got less than a minute .
Speaker 3Yeah , but we have a new ending time this night . Yeah , by five seconds , no 15 seconds by 15 seconds Right . And I'm still trying to say , oh God .
Speaker 1Now how do ?
Speaker 3I do this Because I'm so used to going until 59 with 10 seconds left .
Speaker 1One of the topics we've talked about could be its own evening .
Speaker 3Oh , I know , I know , I know . So that's what I try to model this show after . You know what it is . The Five on the Fox News .
Speaker 1Good show , but I don't get his humor .
Speaker 3Well , that's one of the guys there . Anyway , you have been listening to the show of faith where normally minister , priest and rabbi talk about events in the news .
Speaker 1No , and we talk about anything in religion , which is everything Great .
Speaker 3So , kibbas , please , in your prayers . You know why Because you are always going to be in ours .