A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
January 5, 2025 Interfaith Prayer: Exploring Liturgical Structure and Spiritual Connection
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Join us as we engage in a thought-provoking exchange about the structured and liturgical nature of Catholic prayer, compared to the free-flowing evangelical approach. We bring fresh insights and questions into the mix, making this episode a tapestry of spiritual perspectives that promises to enhance your understanding of religious practices.
Our conversation offers a fresh dynamic, as we weave through the contrasts and similarities between Jewish and Christian prayers. Discover how these traditions provide a spiritual connection and explore the theological implications and practical applications of prayer. From the heart's free flow to the rhythmic cadence of liturgy, this episode is a rich exploration that will leave you with a deeper appreciation and an eagerness to ponder the role of prayer in your life. Whether you're a devout follower or simply curious, tune in for a discussion that's sure to be as educational as it is engaging.
Love comes down with a divorce , son . Well , it takes a storm , baby , but I'm strong to do the door , cause I gotta have faith . I gotta have faith Cause I got to have faith , faith , faith . I got to have faith , faith , faith , faith . Baby , I know you're asking me to stay . Say , please , please , please , don't go away . You see I'm giving you the blues . Maybe there you knew every word you say . I can't help but think of yesterday and I know you tied me down to love a boy . Blues Before this river becomes an ocean , before you throw my heart back on the floor . Oh , baby , I reconsider my foolish notion , but I need someone to hold me back . But I'll wait for something more .
Speaker 2Yes , I gotta have faith . Welcome to A Show of Faith where a professor , priest , millennial and rabbi discuss theology and philosophy and anything else of interest in religion . If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say , we would love to hear from you . Please email us at ashowoffaith at hotmailcom . You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much everywhere podcasts are heard . Our priest is Fr Mario Arroyo , retired pastor of St Cyril of Alexandria in the 10,000 block of Vostok .
Speaker 3An honor to be with you .
Speaker 2Our professor , david Capes is our Baptist minister and director of academic programming for the Laniero Theological Library , but he can't be with us tonight . Rudy Cohn is our millennial . He's a systems engineer and has his master's degree in theology from the University of St Thomas . Are we done ? There he is . I am Rabbi Stuart Federo , retired rabbi from Congregation Jarhush-Alon , the Clear Lake area of Houston , texas . Jim Robinson is our producer and engineer , author of the book I Am With you Always , matthew 2820 , a daily devotional . Corey and Miranda are our board operators and together , jim and Miranda and Corey help us sound fantastic . And tonight we also have with us Valerie . Hi , valerie , and welcome to A Show of Faith .
Speaker 3It's good to be with you Good to be with you too . The only thing I have to say to you is I cannot hear a word you're saying , because I have a microphone but I don't have a plug . So we will just I'm able to participate , but not until they get that little plug right , we always have things we need to plug . Oh geez but anyway , why I am the show ?
Speaker 5so I can talk over Mario and he can't hear me .
Speaker 3What did he say ?
Speaker 2Exactly that . He said he can talk over you because you can't hear him .
Speaker 3That's exactly correct . I cannot . So , here he comes , thank you . Thank you , valerie . I just got a little plug extension , but it may or may not work . No , it'll work , depending on whether this is a screw-on . It will not work . It won't work Because there's two types there's a screw-on and there's a the regular kind and that's the regular kind . So , anyway , yes , Tonight I would like to focus on prayer . Tonight I would like to focus on prayer , the traditions of prayer , both in the Jewish and in the Christian tradition .
Speaker 2Yes , although .
Speaker 3David's not here to defend himself tonight . Well , no , I mean , I think prayer would be , you know , somewhat the same in all Christian traditions , or at least , well , maybe I'm not convinced of that . No , in Catholic tradition there would be a much more , I would say , a deeper reacher , understanding of prayer than in a lot of the evangelical traditions .
Speaker 2And I think evangelical tends to be only off the heart .
Speaker 3Only what .
Speaker 2Free-flowing from the heart . It's Free flowing from the heart .
Speaker 3It's not texts , it's not liturgical .
Speaker 2That's the word . Thank you , there's no liturgy to it . There's no liturgy to it , which means that your discussion of prayer and my discussion of prayer are going to be a lot more overlapped .
Speaker 3Okay , so I would like to divide the night into two different sections . One is what we would call liturgical prayer , that is , the prayer that we do when we come together , and , in liturgy , richard Averbeck In liturgy , darrell Bock In liturgy . Now , would you define what you think liturgy is , richard ?
Speaker 2Averbeck , a specific text that you go through in prayer . It's a specific text that you read , either out loud or to yourself , or you chant with other people , but it begins with a specific pre-written text . It's a liturgy . It could be in the form of a group prayer , responsive reading , I'm not sure what else to call it , but it's a specific text .
Speaker 3Well , and it's interesting because it's a specific text , but I don't know if you would agree with me on this , but I would say that it is more—I'm speaking more of a Catholic understanding . Okay , You're speaking to God through the liturgy , through a preset kind of format . But I think God already knows what you're going to say . So I think it's more for the person .
Speaker 2Absolutely , absolutely . What do you mean by that ? A couple of things . First of all , there are plenty of times where I've spoken to somebody about not the liturgical form but the personal prayer , and what's the first thing they're going to say ? I don't know what to say . Yes , and a liturgy gives you what to say .
Speaker 2When David wrote the Psalms , he expressed emotions and feelings and the experiences that more than just he had , and it gives them the words to say or the things to sing in the temple . That's correct . So I think that that's one thing . The other element to this is that I don't think the purpose of prayer , especially the liturgical kind let me rephrase that I'm exclusively talking about the liturgical kind I don't think the purpose of prayer is to tell God what we need . I don't think it's gimme , gimme , gimme , gimme , now , now , now , or I'm not going to believe in you I think the function and purpose of that kind of prayer you know there's an old prayer book . I haven't seen it or used it in a long time . It's an old prayer book and the text read the person who rises from prayer a better person , that is , the person whose prayers have been answered .
Speaker 3That's very good .
Speaker 2In other words , the Jewish view of especially liturgical prayer is that it's not supposed to change God . Hey God , I need this . Hey God , let me win the lottery . Yes , okay , it's to change ourselves , that's correct , and to align ourselves and our will with the will of God . That's exactly right . But I think there's also in Judaism , I think it's true in Catholicism , david's not here to defend himself , but I don't think it's there , and that is that it is speaking of Judaism . It's an Eastern religion , it's not a Western religion . We don't call it the Middle East , we don't call it Middle West , we call it the Middle East . And when you think of Eastern prayer , you think of meditations , you think of the meditative state . That liturgical prayer puts you in meditative state . That liturgical prayer puts you in Mario .
Speaker 2There have been plenty of times where something happened in the world , whatever , and there would be a part of the liturgy that struck me as pertinent to whatever the event was . My point is that when I would point it out to everybody , it was literally like I broke them from a trance Light , not very deep , but nevertheless a meditative state , which we call a trance . No , we don't . That's a bad term . Forget the word trance , yeah , but it's a meditative state they're in . And when I say now , on page whatever , when it says this , you know , we remember that today's newspaper told us that , or whatever . But when I first start speaking , that's not the liturgy . It's like what , what do you say ? What ? It's like they're coming out of something a a meditative state that , even very lightly , the liturgical service puts them in . The purpose of prayer or the function of liturgical prayer is it puts you in a meditative state that I believe is meant to transcend time and space .
Speaker 3Well , I think it's also the purpose of pre-written prayers , because that's what liturgy is . Yes , it's a set of actions and it's a set of words that are prescribed .
Speaker 2Body motions included Body motions and that are prescribed .
Speaker 3Now , a lot of times I hear people saying well , you know , you've got to pray from the heart .
Speaker 2And they're right , yes . But you can still do that as a meditation too . Yes , right .
Speaker 3But what their meaning is ? Their meaning express you , express what's in your heart to God . But within the liturgy there is room for that same thing there is , but the chief purpose of liturgy is to go the other way .
Speaker 2And I would say , from a Jewish perspective , the chief , would you call it purpose ? Yeah , purpose of Jewish prayer isn't , is not the what's the opposite of liturgical , from the heart , what you were just talking about . Yeah , I don't believe that that's the purpose of the 90 , well , I don't know what percentage , but a huge percentage of Jewish prayer is from the liturgy , the Siddur , the prayer book , and there's room within it for the from the heart , from the soul and outpouring of the heart and soul . There's room for it . There's a part of the prayer is service that is read in silence . But you don't know what I'm saying . I don't know what you're saying . I could be pouring out my heart to God , I could be ignoring the liturgy Anything's possible but that's the point at which you're talking to God directly from the heart and soul .
Speaker 3But I still understand that liturgical prayer . When we get together for Mass , for example , I always let me back up from this perspective . I always tell people , I ask people , how do you pray ? And 98% of the time people say , well , I talk to God and I go . There's your problem . There's your problem , you know why ? Because 98% of prayer should be listening to God , not talking to God . When you are talking to God , it's you who's talking and in order for a prayer to be successful is for you to listen to God , for God's Word to get inside of you and to begin to reformat you in the image and likeness of the God you're praying to .
Speaker 2So to me see— . But is that necessarily done by listening or by by reciting ?
Speaker 3yes , but see , in reciting you are actually listening , like for example when I say an example for example , let the lord's prayer . When I say our father who arch in heaven , hallowed be thy name . I know I saying it to God , but the echoes of those words are firing inside of me in all kinds of different places . They're preset . But I am hearing much more and I am being changed by those words Like one thing , give me one thing .
Speaker 2You're hearing that you're changed by in those same words .
Speaker 3The moment I say Our Father , I feel very much notice . It's not my Father , it is our , our , and so I'm feeling , the very moment I say our Father , I am almost , I am transported intellectually and imagination-wise to the presence of God in all people , that it's all of us approaching God as a family .
Speaker 2Darrell Bock . So you're listening to the words which become a reminder to you , richard Averbeck , that's correct .
Speaker 3They echo Darrell Bock .
Speaker 2And basically on their content .
Speaker 3Richard Averbeck . Not only they echo , they bring forth all kinds of different things memories and ideas and things like that and they may be words that I'm saying to God , but he already knows what's coming . He taught us that , and so the prayer is more for it to form me than it is for that , then Rudy , we're going to get your input when we come back from the thick , because I think you have probably a very similar Catholic understanding than I do . Okay , by the way , I can hear you now , rudy .
Speaker 2So now you've got to be careful .
Speaker 3Oh .
Speaker 5Lord Okay .
Speaker 3This is KNTH 1070 , and we'll be right back .
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Speaker 5Oh , a little prayer for you the moment I wake up .
Speaker 1Before I put on my makeup I say a little prayer for you , clever Okay .
Speaker 2Welcome back to the .
Speaker 3Show of Faith , and I am considering the answer . Rudy , join in . What are your understandings or your thoughts or your ruminations on this ?
Speaker 5My ruminations , you know , to me you guys are talking about . So we're talking about prayer , right , and the importance that it has and how it's sort of how it's distinct , okay , and fundamentally , when , for example , the Lord's Prayer right , or Rabbi , the Psalms , we're listening . So when we speak it out , we're also hearing something right . But we're speaking out and also hearing the Word of God , the literal Word of God , spoken right . So something about prayer and something that has always kind of fascinated me is it's particularly contemplative prayer , and contemplative prayer is sort of exactly what it sounds like . It's fundamentally rooted in Scripture , right , and individuals they sort of encounter God in silence . You know , the Catechism talks about the silent love right , the simple gaze upon God , and this is why the liturgy is so important .
Speaker 5But I also wanted to talk about something else , because to me and for the Maranoses I've just found , there's a lot of mystical aspects , at least within the Catholic tradition , associated with prayer and particularly contemplative prayer , and I can get into that a little bit later .
Speaker 5You have saints like Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross , you know , who experienced all kinds of things , and even Fr Pino Spetralcini , you know , which is a more modern contemporary mystic who died , I think , in 67 , 68 . But what's interesting to me is the actual studies that have been done around prayer and there's something called I don't know if you guys are aware , but there's delta waves , beta waves , alpha waves , right , it's kind of these wave frequencies that the brain engages in that are associated with essentially different modes that we find ourselves in , for example , when we're sleeping or when we're out there or when we're this . So they've actually scanned brains , done MRIs , done all sorts of stuff , and it's interesting that when people engage in genuine right that's one thing that I caught in one of the articles you sent out . It says right here prayer without concentration is aching to a lifeless body . Okay , and I think that's a Say that body .
Speaker 3Okay , say that again .
Speaker 2Would you say that again ?
Speaker 5Prayer without concentration is aching to a lifeless body .
Speaker 3Is akin to what A lifeless body Akin to a lifeless body . Yeah , he was saying Akin . And that's because he's one of these dad-burned Hispanics who doesn't know how to speak English .
Speaker 2I'm beginning to think . Let me tell you .
Speaker 5Good thing , I know how to build things up . Okay , so when people have engaged in genuine contemplative prayer , then what we found is that these individuals actually , especially over prolonged periods of time , have actual brain structure changes changes , for example , they did a huge what I mean huge is time . So they grabbed these nuns and they studied their brain waves for a long time and they saw that these nuns had increased gray matter density , in particular areas linked to empathy and emotional regulation . So as individuals engage in genuine prayer , it's almost like that connection to divine , to the transcendent , is able to kind of better manage , or allow us to manage with more peace , the sort of the chaos of this world .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's actually quite . I think what rudy's just basically saying is that prayer is good for you , is physically good for you they have good for you .
Speaker 2Yeah , they have studies of hindu priests that also show incredible control over over their bodies , body functions . But , rudy , I don't need science to tell me that prayer is a good thing .
Speaker 5I see Well the good thing is that science can't deny it .
Speaker 2Right .
Speaker 3Okay , well , I think it's important , you know , I think it's important not for us who are religious , but for people who are skeptical of religion . Right Because these days everybody wants to say religion is useless , you know ? And what's the point of it ? And I think what a lot of scientific confirmation of religion does is it doesn't convert anyone .
Speaker 3But it does make the case for religion more plausible especially to those who might be skeptical that's right , and it's easier to defend right than it is , because we're right now , in terms of religion , we are in a in a culture that is very inimical to religion . It's it's very anti-religion , and so um it . By the way , I am I am just just as a side note I am reading a book that is just amazing on prayer no on on religion and science , but it's a critique of of the scientific attack on religion and it it's by David Berlinski and it's called the Devil's Delusion . The Devil's Delusion .
Speaker 2The .
Speaker 3Devil's Delusion . It's excellent .
Speaker 2That sounds like a response to Hitchin or one of those Berlinski . It's B-E-R . The God Delusion .
Speaker 3No , no , but that's why this is the opposite . Right , the Devil's Delusion ? No , no , but that's why this is the opposite . Right , the devil's delusion . The devil's delusion is Berlinski B-E-R-L-I-N-S-K-I .
Speaker 2I okay .
Speaker 3Yeah , and it's very , very good . But he's talking about the point of , you know , of science , that science just exaggerates all over the place and they make believe that they have all kinds of surety on all kinds of teachings and when they don't . When you try to connect the dots , and he's a scientist himself and he says this is just bull . So anyway , we got to go to a break . So this is 1070 KNTH . You're listening to the Show of Faith and we will be right back .
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Speaker 1Dream Whenever I want you . All I have to do is dream , dream , dream dream when I feel blue In the night and I need you to . I have to do Is dream I can make you mine .
Speaker 9Taste those lips of wine .
Speaker 1Anytime , night or day . Only trouble is Dream wins . I'm dreaming my life away . Three , four , welcome back to the show .
Speaker 3No , they just don't sing it like that anymore . Those are some wonderful songs .
Speaker 2Anyway , you were going to say something , you were going to react A couple of things , but first of all , it's kind of the same thing , but it's a little bit of a different angle . You mentioned earlier about that . We need to listen to the prayer . Yes , it's kind of the same thing , but it's a little bit of a different angle . You mentioned earlier about that . We need to listen to the prayer .
Speaker 2Yes , and by listening to the prayer , we're listening to God . That's correct . Okay , there's a Liturgical prayer , liturgical prayer , but there's a . What I'm trying to say is that Judaism also has this idea of praying from the soul , praying from the you know , which is not liturgical prayer . That's what we're going to next , which is… Private prayer . Private prayer from the heart , from the soul . Okay , and there's a saying that I have read , that when we pray not the liturgical , but from the heart and soul , when we pray , it's us speaking to God . When we study the Bible religion , that's when God speaks to us . I just thought that was interesting . That is interesting . Right , all right .
Speaker 2Second thing is we have email . Okay , what is it ? Thank you , rudy for pointing it out to me . This is from Tom in Alabama . And thank you , rudy for pointing it out to me , this is from Tom in Albin . Is there anything contrary to the Jewish religion in the Lord's Prayer , aka the Our Father , in other words , would there be any reason a Jew could not recite that prayer ? Yes , if you take a look at the different parts to the Lord's Prayer , you can find antecedents in Judaism for every one , almost every one , no , I'm pretty sure every one . At the end , however and I know what you're going to say , morrow it's not technically part of the Lord's Prayer . What's that Most people end it ? Many denominations end it with… the power and the glory , and all that In the name of the Father , son and Holy Spirit .
Speaker 3Oh yeah , no , no , no , yeah , that's not part of it .
Speaker 2It's not part of it , but it's added to it by many different denominations .
Speaker 3Yeah , well , that… . No , no , no , it's not added at the end , it started at the beginning . Okay , what do you mean ? In other words , when you're going to pray the Our Father , the difference between Catholic and Protestant is that the Our Father , at the end we say lead us not into temptation , but deliver us from evil . That ends the Catholic .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 3The Protestant goes on for thine is the kingdom , the power and the glory , now and forever . In the name of the Father and the Son of the Holy Spirit is the invocation when you start any kind of prayer .
Speaker 2Okay , that part of it which I have heard is ending the Lord's Prayer is obviously not going to be a Judaism . It is not .
Speaker 3It is not . I've never in 47 years… . I knew you were going to say this 47 years I've been a priest . I've never heard an Our Father end .
Speaker 2At Protestant services Never priest , I've never heard and our father and at protestant service never . Okay , all right . The other aspect of this is that it is , in fact , a christian prayer . So , and david and I have gotten into this , by the way , it gotten it , whatever the word is in disagreement over this ? Okay , okay , but if you start reciting that prayer , to my knowledge , anybody and everybody isn't going to start thinking about the Jewish antecedents that created it or the milieu in which it was developed or created . Okay , they're going to hear it as a Christian prayer . And because it is a Christian prayer and associated as a Christian prayer no , the Jews would not recite it Right and associated as a Christian prayer no , the Jews would not recite it .
Speaker 2Interesting Right there's an admonition in I believe it's Deuteronomy that basically says don't do things to me the way other people do to their gods .
Speaker 3Interesting Right See . For us , that may be one of the big differences Because , like whenever , I am between Jews and Christians because , like , for example , when I went to your services , I could pray along exactly with what you were praying , because we're not going to have anything that's going to exclude you .
Speaker 2That's correct , but as soon as a Christian church brings in a prayer that is… Exclusively Christian …then that excludes us . Yes , that is correct . Which is the problem with although it's not our topic , that's the problem with public worship . Yeah , whether it's an invocation before a meal or before a baseball game , or what have you , gary , or before a baseball game , or what have you .
Speaker 5Rudy . Gary , it's just just going back to Collins . I understood it more with the actual words . I understand what you mean , Rabbi , with it being , of course , everybody . When you say the Lord's Prayer , you think a Christian prayer , right , and I get that . But I guess I sort of understood it as is there any issue with the actual content , or is it because it's ?
Speaker 2a Christian prayer that it's no , no , no , only if there was something in it that was exclusively Christian . But from Mario's perspective , it doesn't exist in there . But as I said it's not Mario's perspective .
Speaker 3It is the exist in there but , as I said , it's not Mario's perspective , it is the actual academic perspective .
Speaker 2Absolutely , mario , absolutely Exactly as you say , but there are every single element of it you can find in Jewish sources preceding or leading up to the time of Jesus Do ?
Speaker 3you know why Do you ?
Speaker 2know why do you ?
Speaker 3know why ? Why ? Because it was composed by a jew or a group of them jesus yeah , I know who you meant . Yes , right so it was composed by a jew , so you would think that it was had antecedents in jewish prayer , which is what you would expect . That's correct . Right , that's correct . Now let's go into private prayer . Yes , okay , rudy , why don't you start it out ? Comment on private prayer .
Speaker 5I think , for my personal sort of undertaking . I find that to me it's sort of what I engage in every day . So as soon as I wake up , right , thank you Lord for another day , you know , another opportunity to help be a disciple , to help be a sort of testament of good in this world right , of good in this world , right . So to me , the private prayer is actually in those moments of stillness and quiet where maybe I'm driving somewhere or I'm in an elevator right for two minutes and I just think for a second in my head I'm just like you know what . Thank you Lord . Thank you Like I'm just like you know what . Thank you Lord , thank you Like I'm just utterly blessed .
Speaker 5So to me , what I engage in a lot of private prayer is those in-between moments of maybe it sounds bad , but those in-between moments of the noise , if you will . Right , I'm in a meeting or I'm in the job site and it's loud , but we all have moments of stillness and quietness right when our minds sort of start flooding with the issues oh , I forgot to do this , or I forgot to do that , or I shouldn't have told my wife this , or I shouldn't have told her that or this or whatever , told my wife this , or I shouldn't have told her that or this or whatever , but I find myself just constantly kind of turning back and trying to do something more positive with those moments , which is , I guess , from my perspective , is just being thankful , really , you know let me jump in and then now you can go on .
Speaker 3I have a very weird prayer life , so do I . My prayer life is apophatic , now I know , but I need to explain what that means .
Speaker 2Wasn't that a .
Speaker 3Civil War no . Apophatics no , that's apomatics oh .
Speaker 3I'm sorry , you're right , jeez , god forgive him . He does not know what he is doing . Okay , apophatic meaning my prayer is very wordless , I don't use words . There's an old man . A long , long time ago I was talking to an old old man and we were talking about prayer and he said something that describes perfectly what I have come to . And I said well , how do you pray ? And he said he sits before God anywhere and he says I look at him and he looks at me and that's it . In other words , there is a stillness , a stillness of being present and in common union . And I would add I look at him , he looks at me , but I watch him watching me , because a lot of times when he's watching me , I gain insight into what he's saying to me , but it's not . I find it hard to use many words in prayer because I think they're wasted for me , and so , at most , I'll use a few words Whenever I encounter a reality that is making me feel and I have feelings that I know are not correct all I do is inside of me , I just stare at him , and him is just darkness .
Speaker 3Who's him ? God ? Okay , I stare at him , but him , he's in the darkness . And I just said lift me up , meaning change my gaze , my cause . I'm looking through the eye . I'm looking through the eyes of change my gaze . Yeah , because my feelings are being reflected by the way . I'm looking at something , right , you know , for example , I could look at somebody who makes me very angry and when I say lift me up , I just mean help me to see this person like you see him , and not just all in my feelings . Or if I look at a beautiful woman sexually and I I can say I'm fine , but lift me up so I can look at her as your daughter , so that it's not the denial of your present experience emotionally , but it's the transfiguration of that experience through see , here's my Transfiguration , yeah .
Speaker 3Or what's the word ? I don know , but here's . Here's the point . Remember what I said . The definition of love is yes , love is the decision to unite yourself with god in caring for the good of another , no matter how you feel . The the moment I start praying , the very first thing I have to do is unite myself with God . And so , even when we pray that little , you can come back and you go on the other side . But when we pray , when we listen to that , I say a little prayer for you . Yes , every time you pray for another person , what the heck are you doing ? You are uniting yourself with God , right , and caring for the good of the other , no matter how you feel . That's what you're doing , right , love , okay , you're joining in God's love for another person or another thing . So , and we'll get into Jewish private prayer when we come back this is KMTH 1070 , and we'll be right back .
Speaker 7AM10 when we come back .
Speaker 9This is KMTH 1070 and we'll be right back AM 1070, . The Answer Are you ready for the adventure of a lifetime journey through Alaska with some of the most respected political commentators of today Mike Gallagher and Larry Elder as your guides on the Patriots Alaska Cruise ? Prepare to dive deep into geopolitical trends and understand the influences shaping today ? It's an incredible opportunity to engage with them and special guests Jennifer Ward and Joe Piscopo , on an epic seven-day journey . You'll enjoy Holland America's five-star hospitality , savor delicious cuisine , enjoy a myriad of on-board activities and entertainment , witness the untouched wilderness of Alaska while discussing America's future and role in the world . You'll be immersed in the splendor of glaciers , fjords and natural wildlife . Joined by Gallagher and Larry Elder on this epic Patriots Alaska Cruise , august the 16th through the 23rd 2025 . Call 855-565-5519 . 855-565-5519 . Or book online at travelwithsalemcom . That's travelwithsalemcom .
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Speaker 3Oh the girl from Ipanema , yes , the girl from .
Speaker 1Ipanema . Yes , the girl from Ipanema goes walking and when she passes , when she passes goes , ah , when she walks she's like a summer that swings so cool and sways so gently that when she passes , when , she passes goes .
Speaker 3Oh , enjoy it , baby , because it's all going to rot .
Speaker 2Welcome back to A Show of Faith . I'll answer instead of the answer . Can I tell her All right , welcome back to A Show of Faith .
Speaker 3You're allowing yourself to be carried off by the girl from Ipanema .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 3Okay , now say a prayer and come back to reality .
Speaker 2Just a couple of asides . My first pulpit coming out of seminary after ordination was in Greenville , mississippi . And in going to the South , you know we were told the Jewish community is heavily influenced by the Protestant community of the South and you will be at a congregant's home , you will be out doing something in the world and everybody present will look at you and say , rabbi , lead us in a prayer . And from that second on you're on and you better be able to . You know pardon the word produce Okay , and the best advice I ever got was look at your feelings , look at the circumstances and express what you feel . That you know . It could be as simple as thank you , god , for the friendships that we share on the air . Okay , it can be any , but speak from the heart . Tell me the statement that when you speak from the heart , your words will go to the heart and I think that prayer . You know how weeks , well , it could be months by now .
Speaker 2We were talking about art as an expression of the soul . Yes , to the soul , yes . And the artist , the painter , the sculptor , whatever medium they work in , they're expressing a part of themselves in what they are making and then , when another person sees it what the artist has expressed . They feel Okay . They feel Okay and only thinking about it for tonight , mario , but I think there's an element of that when we pray from the heart , when we're and it doesn't matter if it's what were your few words of prayer ? Epiphatic , no , no , no , when you would pray you would say , oh yeah , oh , I would just lift me up , right , lift me up , but that's a hope of the heart , that's a request of the heart , it's an expression of the heart and soul . Yes , and I think that that is personal and private , but I think it's connective , it is okay . I think it is uh , what's your ? Uh , it's religion , religios , whatever the word is really . God , which ?
Speaker 4is . That's why I said to reconnect .
Speaker 2To reconnect , okay , you are connecting yourself with God , who is greater . And to me , when I was a kid in religious school , okay , we had what basically you could call a catechism , as funny as that may sound to you , but it was basically statement , statement , statement , statement , statement . And what is prayer ? Prayer is talking to God , prayer is talking to God . Prayer is talking to God .
Speaker 3I mean it was liturgical but it was almost a . It's interesting because we have a very similar thing , but in Catholic theology it's prayer , lifting your mind and heart to God .
Speaker 2And there are different ways to me of saying the same thing . Yeah , okay , but we're coming out of time . But in well David , in Catholic thought , is there anything at all at all that would be classified as a wasted prayer ? Let me explain what I'm talking about .
Speaker 2Interesting yeah , okay , I'm driving home and I see a fire engine head into the neighborhood and my instinct might be oh , please , god , don't let that be my home . But it's either your home or it's not your home . By saying the prayer , the fire isn't going to jump from one home to another . It's a brachalavatala , it's a wasted prayer , prayer for nothingness . Okay , better to say , better to pray . Please , god , give those firemen strength to help whoever needs the help . Please speed their way to get there in time . That's a real prayer . But please don't let it be my house . It's either already your house or it's already not your house and the prayer is not going to . It's a wasted prayer .
Speaker 3Well , we don't ever use those terms a wasted prayer , but I would say that kind of thing . You know , even I have seen comments said that you should not say , for example , I have been blessed with a lot of X , y , z , I've been blessed with this , or , thanks be to God , it didn't happen to me , because what you're basically saying is as long as this happens to somebody else'm okay , I'm okay , yeah , so I don't know , uh for us .
Speaker 2So there's a direction to pray well , not direction . There's a , there's a movement towards a better prayer .
Speaker 3Yeah , well , I think that there's better prayers and worse prayers . Yeah , me too , you know , because you basically that's why the apostles asked Jesus teach us to pray , because we don't know how and we can pray badly . And even St Paul says you don't get what you ask for because you ask wrongly . It's interesting because for a Christian I like to say this to people and people , because Jesus says in the Gospels he says says ask for whatever . Whatever you will ask in my name , and people think , oh , okay , I , if I say I want to win the lottery in jesus name , in jesus name , okay , in my name , does not mean that what does it mean ?
Speaker 3it means , for example , if I say to you stewart , would you please ? I'm , I'm not well and I need to be re-presented at a meeting and I'm asking you to go and represent me . Okay , am I asking you to go in my name ? Am I asking you to go in there and do whatever the heck you want ?
Speaker 2No .
Speaker 3I am notice what I am doing . I am trusting that you know me well enough , right that ? I can represent you that you can represent in my name means you are inside of my , my will what I would want . When jesus says what you want in his name , it means that you are in such common union with him that your wills are almost identical Not quite , but you're in the common union of in his name you can represent him .
Speaker 2And somehow I just don't think that God necessarily wants me to have that lottery .
Speaker 3No , rudy , get in here . What do you want to say about this ?
Speaker 5Brother , you're never going to win the lottery . I know God loves you that much .
Speaker 2Every time .
Speaker 5I play .
Speaker 2It's a lesson from God that I'm not going to win . Sorry , go ahead .
Speaker 5Well , I think there's another level too to what you're talking about . I mean , fundamentally what you're speaking . It's not necessarily a wasted thing , right with the example you gave . But I was thinking , what if you take it up another notch ? What if I say something like you know , rabbi really kicked me off today .
Speaker 5I hope Jesus , he , you know he's precious to something right , like wishing , praying for something malicious to somebody else , and I think I don't know if in God's infinite mercy there would be .
Speaker 5But I think he's capable of grabbing all moments and all prayers to kind of change the heart of man , if you will . But I think there are some things that I think people engage in that are just greedy and to some respect also sinful , I would argue , because you're just thinking there and you want something you know to get ahead on somebody or to get over something . And , like you said , it's not like I don't want , I'm not praying that that not be my house . I pray that those people aren't home , regardless of whose house that is right or regardless of who's working there , and I think it just speaks about a majority , sorry . It speaks about the maturity of an individual and their prayer life and how well they are connected sort of to that message of love of God , that kind of dictates how . I don't want to say how well or not well they pray right , but at least how meaningful they are On that line on how we pray .
Speaker 2This is an email that we got from a very long-time listener who calls himself Presbyterian Mark , and he writes Guys , one thing that greatly changed my prayer life was reading Dietrich Bonhoeffer . Bonhoeffer stressed that the Lord's Prayer is the prayer the Christian must pray . So why not structure your prayer to follow the format of the Lord's Prayer ? It gets the emphasis off of what you want from God and focuses you on making God's will be done on earth , as it is already done in heaven . Grace and peace . Presbyterian .
Speaker 3Mark . But it asks give us this day our daily bread .
Speaker 2Yeah , make our necessities , meet our necessities , meet our necessities .
Speaker 3Right . Yeah , I want to say something before we get too far . I have no idea when the show ends anymore , is it ?
Speaker 2back on 5 seconds after , or is it back on ?
Speaker 3you know , I'm saying this to people in case you mess up because we're going to mess up . I think it's back to normal . Is it back to normal ? I think so 59 , 50 because Corey . No , I think it's back to normal . I think it really is . Is it back ? To normal , I think so 59 , 59 , 59 , 50 . Right , because Corey told us something different .
Speaker 2Well then , the machine changed .
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 2Let's assume it's back to normal .
Speaker 3But if I do the ending and nothing happens , Then it's the machine's fault .
Speaker 2It's the machine's fault .
Speaker 3Okay , well , because it's now machine's fault . It's the machine's fault . Okay , well , because it's now 8.59 . Right , and so that means we're working on the understanding that we have 50 seconds . Yes , okay . So thank you for participating . I think this was a very interesting topic .
Speaker 2So do I , and Tom and Mark . Thank you for your emails .
Speaker 3Yep , yep . Very good , who's in charge next week ?
Speaker 2Thank you for your emails . Yep , yep .
Speaker 5Very good , who's in charge next week ? Last week we called me David can be here . David , it's not . I think it may be you , rabbi .
Speaker 3Yeah , I think it's that was two weeks ago , wasn't I David ? Yeah , two weeks ago .
Speaker 2Well , we'll figure it out .
Speaker 3We'll figure it out . Okay Well , we'll figure it out . We'll figure it out . Okay Well , you have been—please stay warm . It's going to get cold , really cold . It's already cold . So you've been listening to a show of faith here on KNTH 1070 , the Answer Keep us in your prayers because you're going to be in .
Speaker 7Find us at am1070theanswercom . Download our apps . Stream us 24-7 . Knth and K277DE-FM Houston . Thank you .