A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
February 2, 2025 The Human Quest for Spiritual Understanding
Join us as we engage in a deep exploration of the existence of God, weaving through the intricate tapestry of religion, philosophy, and personal convictions. Starting with the intriguing narrative of public figures like Donald Trump interpreting divine will in their lives, we each reveal our own perspectives on what constitutes compelling proof of God's presence. As we navigate these spiritual waters, we uncover the shared and unique elements that sustain our faith and motivate our spiritual journeys.
The enigmatic order of the universe comes into sharp focus as we discuss the intersection of philosophy, mathematics, and faith. Reflecting on thinkers like Thomas Aquinas and Albert Einstein, we question whether the cosmos' beauty is an accidental marvel or a deliberate design.
Delving into concepts like perfect forms and the Pythagorean theorem, we ponder the capacity of the human mind to discern external order and how this recognition plays into our belief in a higher power. Through this lens, we explore the choices that lead us towards belief, even amidst skepticism.
Bringing our discussion full circle, we reflect on the rationality of different religions and the universal human quest for meaning. Through personal anecdotes and philosophical reflections, we emphasize the power of faith to provide purpose and hope, contrasting it with a life devoid of spiritual meaning.
We touch on fundamental existential questions that every human faces, suggesting that belief in an intelligent designer offers a coherent framework for understanding life's mysteries. As we wrap up, we delve into the cultural significance of religious ceremonies, inviting you to reflect on your beliefs and embark on your own spiritual journey.
Stop, what's that sound? Everybody, look what's going down. Lines being drawn. Nobody's right If everybody's wrong. People speak in their mind. I didn't need so much resistance From behind. Stop what's that sound. Everybody, look what's going down.
Speaker 2:I don't think we're on. I don't think we're on. I can hear myself. I can Well.
Speaker 3:it's Show of Faith where professor priest millennial and rabbi discuss theology and philosophy and anything else of interest in religion. Oh, it's Show of Faith, where Professor, priests, millennial and Rabbi discuss theology and philosophy and anything else of interest in religion. You have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say? Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Please email us at ashowoffaithathotmailcom. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard. Our priest is Fr Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St Cyril of Alexandria in the 10,000 block of Westheimer.
Speaker 2:Well, hello there.
Speaker 3:Our professor is David Capes, baptist minister and director of academic programming for the Lanier Theological Library, but unfortunately could not make it with us tonight. Rudy Cohn is our millennial. He's a systems engineer, has his master's degree in theology from the University of St Thomas. I am Rabbi Stuart Federo, rabbi Emeritus of Congregation Sha'ar HaShalom in the Clear Lake area of Houston, texas. Corey and Miranda are board operators, but tonight Nikki is filling in and together, miranda and Corey and Nikki, help us sound fantastic.
Speaker 4:Hopefully.
Speaker 3:I'm sure, and tonight Rudy is our show director.
Speaker 5:Rudy are you there?
Speaker 3:I am there, he is. Take it away.
Speaker 5:Hey, okay, okay. So I know last week we had a. I think we had a pretty good conversation and it got me to thinking. We were talking about sort of presidential religion, right, and how different people can interpret sort of the will of God, right, the things that happen, the things that don't happen.
Speaker 2:And we were talking because of Trump's interpretation of his attempted assassination.
Speaker 5:Exactly, and his claim that he was, you know, left alive so he could run for president, and it got me thinking. I think there's a lot of things that leave people right, because, I mean, even Trump's belief is sort of based on a particular understanding that he has on religion, on a higher power, on what essentially created this whole thing right, and so I wanted to talk a little bit about and from each of us' perspective I wanted to talk about what each of us thinks is how could I say this? What each of us thinks is the best proof for a God that we have Right. So Trump's belief that what happened, right, the assassination attempt has some underlying criteria, right, that goes with it. So he's able to associate that with a belief system that's already there. So, from our perspective, I think we all have these same, and not that, I think we do all have these same sort of underlying perspectives, and I think there's a lot that we have in common. There's obviously a lot that we have different, but fundamentally, I think we all sort of reach a consensus in different ways for what we think is sort of in our life and experience the proof of God.
Speaker 5:So what I really wanted to talk about is and I can go first if you guys don't mind or if somebody else wants to share. But I want to talk about what each of us thinks is the most sort of unquestionable fact or most unquestionable way that we believe in God and why we think that there is, without a shadow of a doubt, the existence of God. And then, as sort of the second half of the show I wanted to talk about, what is it about this belief, or what is it about our particular faith that keeps us motivated in that belief. I don't know if I'm sort of making any sense, but yeah, I think so.
Speaker 5:Yeah, okay, so you go first rudy, so I guess okay, I'll kick it off because I I, of course, I mean I've studied engineer, engineering, and I kind of from a, from a young, from a young whiffer snapper. Um, I remember as a teenager 15, 16 years old I remember picking up the Summa Theologiae, and this is a book written by Thomas Aquinas, St Thomas Aquinas, where he goes through a lot of different proofs and one of the things that really struck me there's this section and he talks a lot about these created forms and potentiality, and it gets pretty philosophical, right. And now I would say, later on in life, that I've studied it more. It makes. When I read somebody like Aristotle, Plato, it makes more sense. But I think it's because I've been sort of trained, I've been exposed to it. I mean I could even make the argue, I don't know, maybe my brain's more developed or not. I mean they say that men's brains don't finish developing until they're like 28 or 29 or something like that, right, 29 or something like that right.
Speaker 5:But one of the things that I remember reading was this concept of the perfect form, right, and whenever we think of geometry, okay and we think of forms let's say a circle then we have in our minds, right, there exists this concept of a circle, okay, and we can draw a circle and we can construct a circle, or we can make it out of dirt, we can make a sphere, but there exists this ideal circle, shape or circle form, if you will. Now, as a Catholic, I would sort of extrapolate that and say, okay, there's human beings and of course our belief is that, well, Jesus Christ is that ideal human being right? So to me, when I think about these and I'm going to go back to the geometry now but there's certain things about geometry and there's certain things about math that stand above, let's say, the particular understanding of a human being. And what do I mean by that? I mean that. So, for example, the Pythagorean theorem, right, which was quote-unquote, and I say this loosely, the theorem sort of first deposited by Pythagoras, and A squared plus B squared equals C squared, is how you sort of make the dimensions of a triangle, yeah, Okay. Now it doesn't matter if Pythagoras was Greek or Indian or African or American, it doesn't matter. The Pythagorean theorem, that sequence of variables that add up to this type of triangle, are true no matter what language, no matter what region, no matter what time, it just doesn't change, okay.
Speaker 5:And so across sort of mathematical principles which I would say are seen in nature. Right, Because we can look at nature and see things. We can see objects, we can see forms, we can see geometric shapes, forms, we can see geometric shapes. The Greeks understood it, since, I mean, Plato wrote about it, Euclid wrote about it, so there's a lot of authors that have written about this. But there's these concepts that stand outside of space and time. So when I think about these things and I think about nature and I think about what can be observed, there's an intelligibility About things, right, Like things can be understood Regardless of when we are in space and time.
Speaker 2:I think that that reminds me of Einstein, Because Einstein Was the one who said that the thing that most impressed him about the universe is that it was understandable, that it was intelligible. And it's very interesting because, see, think about it If everything is an accident let's say the Big Bang was all an accident, which I can argue later when you have an explosion anywhere, you don't get an intelligible distribution of what exploded, you just get random. If your house exploded, you wouldn't expect to find all your pictures in one place, your dishes in another. You wouldn't expect organization. Find all your pictures in one place, your dishes in another? You wouldn't expect organization, because organization is a sign of intelligibility. And so that's basically what you're saying, right?
Speaker 5:Yeah, in essence, and the fact that it can be observed across space and time, so it doesn't matter whether it was 2,000 years ago or tomorrow. Yeah, these same things can be observed under different cultures, under different languages, by different people. So there's something quote-unquote objective about this right that kind of sits outside of the creation of the human mind. That's correct. Okay, it exists outside of it, and I think that's. I mean, there's other proofs, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know, the human mind, the very fact that the human mind matches the external organization of the world, in other words, that the rationality, the rational organization that exists, like rudy's saying objectively, the fact that we can perceive that objectivity is, isn't, isn't of itself a tremendous thing. Because, I can tell you, one of the things that I I'm constantly marveling at is, I have a little dog that I love very much. His name name is Charlie. Charlie has no sense of what is order. Charlie, I can look at the room and I can say I don't like this, it's messy and stuff like that. Charlie has no sense of order or messiness or anything like that.
Speaker 3:I'm more like Charlie of order or messiness or anything like that.
Speaker 3:I'm more like charlie say something, don't be like charlie, I, I am like charlie, so I I understand what you're saying, but I gotta tell you something I don't think anything can prove the existence of God. I think that we make a choice to believe. Then we can see patterns and rationalize or excuse or justify whatever word you want to use our choice for believing in the existence of God by seeing these arguments for God. Yeah, but and I obviously no surprise believe in God, but the proof.
Speaker 3:But proving, because everything that you've mentioned so far can be.
Speaker 2:Okay, but here's my point Explained away. Here's the point, and I've often had to deal with this with people. So have I? Well, here's the point. Explain the way. Here's the point, and I've often had to deal with this. Well, here's the point. Proof to what end? To what degree? Because whenever I have an argument with people about this, I always say, okay, let's define proof. And I always say, well, why don't we bring up the american legal system? Let's say proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Now the reason? The reason is that, uh, and, by the way, david just texted me and said your mic is not working correctly. I can't.
Speaker 3:I can't hear it either. You can't hear me, okay so, so, um, uh.
Speaker 2:the situation is that I always say okay, proof to what degree? Because if you use the word, if you use the standard reasonable doubt, then you can bring it pretty close. You can bring it pretty close Because anybody can doubt anything. I mean, I've sat in philosophy classrooms where people were doubting existence and seriously doubting existence. Now talk Rabbi.
Speaker 3:How's this? I switched microphones, yeah.
Speaker 2:So the question is proof to what degree? Right, because if you do proof beyond a reasonable doubt, then I think you can, because all things can be doubted, all things Descartes said. The only thing that you can't doubt is the fact that you are doubting. And therefore, what is it?
Speaker 3:I think I think, therefore I am.
Speaker 2:So we can get into that later. It's 20 after We've got to go to a break. Come back to it.
Speaker 5:I doubt we can continue without going to a break.
Speaker 2:That was good, rosie. This is 1070 KMTH and we'll be right back.
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Speaker 1:The answer Johnny Angel, johnny Angel, johnny Angel, I'm bored. You're an angel to me, shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up. Johnny Angel, how I love him, how I tingle when he passes by. Every time he says hello, my heart begins to fly. Johnny Angel, how I want him. You fly, johnny, you're how I want you. He's got something that I can't resist, but he doesn't even know that I exist, do you know?
Speaker 2:do you know you can bring it down, okay, do you know?
Speaker 3:why we play that song. No, I don't know why. Okay, Second song every Sunday night.
Speaker 2:Every Sunday night. That's supposed to be the second song.
Speaker 4:Oh okay, okay, I did right.
Speaker 2:Yes, here's why, a long time ago, I was telling people that I was in love with shelly fabre. Okay, but then and and because when I was a young kid maybe 13, 14 my three sons is that.
Speaker 1:yeah, my three no, no, no, no it was uh uh so she was on.
Speaker 2:I can't remember it now did you have that swoosh the hair. But see when she sang that on the show the Donna Reed show, the Donna. Reed show. When she sang that and I was an impressionable 14 year old, I was in love with that woman and I always dreamt that I was Johnny Angel, and so it brings him back to his youth every time he hears it and I always dreamt that I was Johnny Angel, and so it brings him back to his youth every time he hears it.
Speaker 2:But then I heard Karen Carpenter sing it. Oh yeah, and she sings it better than Shelly Fabre, and so that was Karen Carpenter, and so it has been played in my honor. All right, and I may still be there, there's some somewhere inside of me. There's this that the 14 year old is still in all of us, it's still swooning right anyway, we were talking about proofs and intellectual proofs about the, the, the existence of god.
Speaker 2:We're talking about the word proof, because the word proof, if you say prove something beyond any doubt, you cannot do that Prove God. You can't prove anything, and you can't? Well, you can't prove anything, you can doubt everything, you can doubt.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm saying. You choose to doubt or you choose to believe that's correct. And everything else that comes after that you can doubt. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:You choose to doubt or you choose to believe that's correct and everything else that comes after that feeds the choice. But that's what I love about saying let's set it as proof beyond a reasonable doubt, not beyond all doubt.
Speaker 3:Again, I think it's choice to believe or choice not to believe.
Speaker 2:I agree with you.
Speaker 3:I agree with you. I agree with you and I have my own reasons that I think make logical sense. That to me, validate my already existing belief and, for me, prove the existence of God. And I will say one other thing Even if it doesn't prove the existence of God, prove the existence of God. To me, it shows the importance of believing in God. In other words and I know this is going to be really shocking for some people even if you had absolute, 100% proof, god does not exist. I'd still still believe, because I think believing in god provides all sorts of good things for society, for people who believe, for individuals and groups all the way around, okay, but I disagree with you there.
Speaker 2:I disagree mainly for this reason okay, that I don't think I could believe something that had been proven wrong. That would be dishonest, all right so I'm overstating my case.
Speaker 3:But in the same way that I don't believe you can prove God's existence, I don't think you can prove God's lack of existence.
Speaker 2:No, I agree with you, that's all.
Speaker 3:I just believe that there is more to be gained by belief than there is by disbelief, and I would I would urge all of us. There's a tv show, I think it's netflix.
Speaker 3:It might be, uh, amazon prime, but he's not my favorite person, ricky gervais yeah okay, he's what I call a professional atheist and on the show he uses the pulpit of his tv of this show, uh to express his disbelief in god. But the rest of the show is called After Life, not After Life but After Life. And in the beginning of the show he is cynical and mean-spirited and a really not nice guy and over the course of the three seasons of 18 shows total he turns into a nice guy and is helpful and hints, hints at the need to believe. But here's.
Speaker 2:Here's my point. The point is that when I when see, I don't want to turn it into a totally relativism, I choose or I don't choose. I don't want to turn it into a totally relativism, I choose or I don't choose. I think that there are choices that are more foolish and choices that are smarter.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:You can choose to believe in idiocy, right. You can choose to believe my experience and people do, yeah, but my, not my experience. My conclusion is that to not believe in a higher power, to not believe in God, if we're going to use that term, is more intellectually dishonest than it is than to be an atheist. That, to me, is the likelihood, because I've often said this whole thing of in the beginning there was nothing, and nothing ever happened to nothing, and for one reason, some reason, for some reason for no reason nothing one day exploded into bits of everything, and bits of everything then became dinosaurs.
Speaker 2:Jeez, it makes perfect sense, doesn't it Makes perfect sense? And, rudy, I know you wanted to get in here, but we got only five seconds because we can come on in at the second part, when we get over to the commercials. This is KNTV 1070, and we'll be right back.
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Speaker 1:The answer oh, cecilia, yeah.
Speaker 2:Naughty girl.
Speaker 1:Cecilia, you're breaking my heart, you're shaking my confidence daily. Oh, cecilia, I'm down on my knees. I'm begging you, please to come home. I like that. Thank you, I'm a drummer. It comes naturally the second my confidence daily.
Speaker 3:Welcome back to A Show of Faith on AM 1070 Answer.
Speaker 2:Okay, Rudy, you were going to jump in.
Speaker 5:Yeah, okay, so I understand what the rabbi um is saying, right, and we're all given free will, right at the end, and this is something that that even, for example, cs lewis talked about. Right, it's like we choose health, like we choose to move away from God. We choose to ignore the rational, if you will, right? And the one thing that I thought about when we're talking about this is love. Okay, so when we look at love, how do we then explain, for example, a mother's sacrificial love, something that goes against all sorts of biological natural inklings of the mother.
Speaker 5:No, not in this way. Orangutans eat their babies. Rabbi, I mean, there's.
Speaker 3:You also have violence in the natural world, but you also have animals that will sacrifice themselves for the sake of their babies.
Speaker 5:There are mothers that sacrifice their babies. But you don't only see that within mothers. You see that within people, for example soldiers. You see that with people that are able to jump into danger and save another human being.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I think you're talking. What is not present in the animal kingdom is altruism. You know, I think rudy is correct in this sense that, yes, a mother will bring, will bring their themselves to an end.
Speaker 3:I've seen videos of animals that will take another animal as its own. For what?
Speaker 2:well, okay it's.
Speaker 3:It may not be pure altruism, but it's altruistic yeah, I think it's important.
Speaker 2:I think what you're pointing, though, to rudy is the ability to make a choice right, the ability to make a choice to give your life for someone else.
Speaker 5:I think that but, let me right and go ahead well, I just, I just wanted to. I mean and this is a maybe a question for you guys too I mean, to me it's more about an individual having a genuine pursuit of truth and rationality, that's correct.
Speaker 5:And, of course, maybe you could say that I'm biased or maybe that you know. Oh, that's just, you know, you just grew up being Catholic. Okay, sure, but when an individual genuinely tries to discover truth and I mean all truth, scientific, it doesn't matter, like in which branch you go into right, whether you're studying quantum physics or agriculture, like it doesn't matter. The more you try to fundamentally understand it, the more it leads you to point to these sort of objective truths that we keep running into.
Speaker 2:I'm in agreement with you there, because the only animal that pursues the truth is the human being, or cares about it, or cares about it, yeah, but let me bring something up. I always bring this up whenever I'm discussing this issue. I think there are four things every human being has to answer, four, right, okay. One where did this all get started? The beginning of the universe Did everything? People talk about the Big Bang? Well, you can't have nothing go bang you can also not care.
Speaker 2:You can just spend your life that's floating along the as the stream takes you yeah, well, that's that I'm talking about a, an actual human being that tries to live an authentic life. What's the uh challenged life?
Speaker 3:no a the unexamined life, unexamined Right, an examined life will do that.
Speaker 2:That's right. So the first thing is where did this whole thing start? Okay, because now even atheists, sometimes especially scientists, will say well, we're talking about parallel universes. Well, you can talk about as many parallel universes as you want.
Speaker 3:Yeah, talk about having a faith.
Speaker 2:How do you prove? You don't prove it, but you don't. You ultimately have to say somewhere even all those universes had to have a beginning right where they come from where they come? Point number two. Question number two what gives you the right to say anything is right or wrong?
Speaker 3:what is the moral basis okay because that's, that is, to me, my proof of the existence of god there is no, if there is no moral basis and everything is up there's no standard of right the third question does life have a meaning or does?
Speaker 2:is it? You have to provide it yourself, because, in and of itself, the the universe is a cold, meaningless, empty space and you have to choose. Is there such a thing as meaning to existence, and why is it that we, as human beings, have a tremendous need for meaning? No other animal does See.
Speaker 3:That's the issue Is we have a need for meaning and it doesn't matter intellectual level, economic state status. You have a need for meaning and it doesn't matter intellectual level, economic state status. You have a need for meaning. You have to have a meaning in your life, whether it's working to earn a living to feed your children, whatever, wife, whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you have to have the human being needs meaning. The worst thing that you can give somebody is meaningless work.
Speaker 3:Just you know work that is Busy work in school Just busy work.
Speaker 2:I remember those days.
Speaker 2:Okay. And then the last thing is where is this all going? I'm going to die. Where is it all going? Is there any purpose? Or was this just me kind of making it up and then when I die, I die? That's it. And so those are the four questions that everybody has to answer, and, to my way of believing, is the meaning. The origins of the universe point to an intelligent designer that started it. The need for morality point to a correct and an incorrect way of being. The need for meaning says if I have a need for water, if I'm thirsty, that means that there's water.
Speaker 3:If I'm hungry, that means there's. If you see, that means there are things to be seen that's correct If you smell. So there's a part of our brain that also perceives the fancy term numinous, the divine spiritual.
Speaker 2:And then the last thing is if death is it, then what's the point? Which is related to the meaning of life? But that to me, all those questions, to me, it feels like it makes much more sense to believe that there is an intelligent designer to this whole thing.
Speaker 3:It makes more sense to have God than it does to not have God. To me, it's foolish.
Speaker 2:When people come to me and say, well, prove to me that there's a God. You know what I say, I say wait a minute, excuse me, why am I having to prove it? Right, you prove Proof there isn't.
Speaker 3:You prove there isn't you prove there isn't, Because all the signs point.
Speaker 2:If you walk out in the middle of the desert and you see a structure like the Sphinx, you're not going to say, oh look what the desert created over centuries. You're going to presume immediately.
Speaker 3:That something created it, sculpted it. That's right.
Speaker 2:That's right. So you're saying well, proveed it. That's right. So you're saying well, prove to me that somebody made the sphinx duh man but that's because it's on an earth that has humans that sculpt but, intelligent design. If there is intelligent design in the universe, there has to be a designer. You can't, you can't have design. If a universe, there has to be a designer, you can't have design.
Speaker 3:If a universe can only exist where there is design, then it doesn't mean it was designed. It means that we can interpret it or perceive a design that exists.
Speaker 2:Yes, but in other words think, I think I disagree with you. I think if you have design, you cannot have reasonable, intelligent design without a mind to construct it. You cannot.
Speaker 3:There was a statement made by uh uh, this, this super intelligent guy in the wheelchair. He was yeah, yeah, uh, thank you. Hawking made a statement about our universe and he said and for him, this was a proof of the non-existence of god, which really makes no sense when I tell you what he said. He said that the universe as we have it is the only kind of universe we could have. I'm telling you that's what? Look it up, google search. He said. And for him, that was a proof of the non-existence of god, because you didn't have to have a designer. It's that the bang would have naturally fallen into this perfect distance between the earth and the sun and the heat and the angle of the earth on its axis you know all this other stuff. And to me that was exactly the opposite.
Speaker 2:It proved the existence of God because the odds I'm not even capable of creating the odds of all this falling into place correctly, okay by the way, if any of you, we have to go to a break pretty soon, but let me tell you, if you want to read a book that is an amazing thing on this topic, okay is. The book is called the devil, the devil's delusion the devil's delusion the devil's delusion by by.
Speaker 3:Uh, that's a direct response to the god delusion.
Speaker 2:The god delusion. Yes, good is the last, the. The guy's name is berlinski david berlinski, berlinski, berlinski, berlinski, berlinski. It is amazing. He is a physicist who spends his whole time slicing into bits evolutionists and people who say, oh, we have proven that there is no God, we have proven it's masterful, the book. I cannot highly morally recommend. The Devil's Delusion. The Devil's Delusion.
Speaker 3:The Devil's Delusion. There's a book that I would recommend called God, genesis and the Big Bang, and it's Gerald Schroeder, and he talks about the fact that science and religion don't contradict each other, and it goes into deep, deep math. I could not begin to follow, but it's an incredible book God, genesis and the Big Bang Gerald Schroeder.
Speaker 2:Okay, Rudy, do you want to jump in Quick?
Speaker 5:we're on break, yeah you know we have to go to break here in a minute, but when we come back, I wanted to kind of talk a little bit about, from each of y'all's perspectives, what is it about your faith that keeps you, let's say, wanting to pursue truth more genuinely right? Like what is it about it that you haven't given up on yet? You know what I mean. Like what is it about it that draws you that continues, I mean, even as seasoned veterans as you are? Why is it that you even bother with it anymore? I mean, is there something that you still find appealing? Is it something that you feel complacent about? Or is it something that you feel that you could spend an entire other life chasing and you still wouldn't even begin to scratch the surface of it?
Speaker 2:Okay, this is 1070 KNTH and we will be right back.
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Speaker 1:The Answer he was born in the summer of his 27th year, coming home to a place he'd never been before. He left yesterday behind him. You might say he's born again. You might say he found the key for every door when he first came to the mountains. His life was far away, on the road and hanging by a song, but the string's already broken and he doesn't really care. It keeps changing fast and it don't last for long.
Speaker 3:But the Colorado, welcome back to a show of Faith. On AM1070, the Answer. Sharon, we miss you. Hope everything's going great up in Dallas.
Speaker 2:And, by the way, just this last plug I want to reemphasize the Devil's Delusion, and the subtitle is the Atheism and Its Scientific Pretensions. Oh good, oh, it's excellent, Excellent. I cannot. That's one of my five best books I've ever read. So, Rudy, you were going to jump in.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I just wanted to kind of close up. I know we have about ten minutes left, but I was trying to explain before the break but I essentially wanted. So we talked a little bit about sort of what we find and again I like the way you put it, Father is proofs, right, Like things that we find beyond a reasonable doubt, right, that we find appealing as something existing, that is beyond us, right, this sort of creative intelligence that exists. And I wanted to kind of turn it now a little bit. And from you guys' perspective, from the particular faith that you profess, what is it about these faiths that you find the most appealing, I would say, in genuinely pursuing that truth? I mean, what is it that you find that facilitates that? What is it that you find that kind of gives you that want, that need? I mean, I know we talked about it as being something inherent in humanity.
Speaker 2:You know, rudy, for me, I don't think that I could live without my relationship with God. I don't think that I could get up in the morning and find any reason to do anything. If there is no hope, if there is nothing in the future, if this life doesn't have any meaning, then I, you know, I, I love um. I can't remember her name, if that's all there is, if that's all there is, my friend. And let's keep dancing, let's break out the booze and right and have a ball hedonism yeah, it's so.
Speaker 2:To me, the very idea of living without seeking the meaning of at the center of the universe is so abhorrent that I would have to live constantly high or constantly drunk, because if I didn't, I would be tempted to suicide I don't think I would be led to suicide, but I would find the world to be very depressing I said I would be tempted.
Speaker 3:But yes, exactly in other words, there's also something to be said for the meaning we make for ourselves. But the questions that Mario listed, the four questions that Mario listed, I just think that Judaism answers them the best. I think that it's rational, reasonable, practical and practicable faith that gives the person meaning, and that's what I want to share and spread, and I just the basis of it is a God who cares. He cares what we do, cares what we eat, think how we play, how we relate to each other and to me. All of the questions that people ask about religion, about faith, about life, about death, about all the religious, spiritual questions, to me seem to be best answered within Judaism, and so that's why I want to promote it yeah that's why I work for it, that's why it's interesting?
Speaker 2:because when you say that, I have the exact same reasoning. Absolutely. When I hear jesus speaking, I'm hearing an echo of the most profound longings of my life and that's why I am a believer in Jesus. Whenever I look at the resurrection, at the crucifixion, whenever I hear him talk, I always like the idea of what I think. It was CS Lewis who said that when Jesus stands there and says I am the way, the truth and the life, you either have to say he's a liar, a lunatic or a lord, or he is a legend. It's one of those four.
Speaker 3:There are other possibilities.
Speaker 3:But ultimately I believe in the New Testament and I'm a christian because to me there is no better answer which is exactly the same thing, and I can't imagine anybody of religion, whatever religion, answering any differently, even even though we disagree on basic theological beliefs, even though all religions will disagree with all religions on some very basic beliefs, but a person isn't going to devote their lives to their faith if they didn't hold what Mario said and what what I said, and they'll say it too hindu, buddhist, baptist, muslim. You have, jane, some sort of you'd have to. You have to, yeah, rudy I think it's.
Speaker 5:I think it's fundamentally based, though and I'm going to go back to the saying on this sort of genuine pursuit of truth, right? I mean, without that it doesn't work Like at a very fundamental level, right? You're always trying to find that purpose. You know, whether it's hidden or not, whether it's revealed to you or not, it's revealed to you or not, I think all human beings. We have this, which, to me, is quote unquote, another one of these proofs, right, it's the fact that people that want there's people, the fact that there's people that want to live a life of meaning, right? That want to live a life that they do good with themselves, with their family, with their community, and they're willing and able to sacrifice everything for that, especially their families. Right? I mean that to me, look, you don't get that outside of sort of this genuine belief that there's something out there that loves you with everything, infinitely. Right, and so go ahead, father.
Speaker 2:No, I'm agreeing with you. I'm agreeing with you.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so I just find that I understand it's a choice, and I guess the more I mean call me biased or call me brainwashed, I don't know, and I've really tried. Look, I've read a lot of these, the Nietzsches and the Hegel's and the Descartes, like I've read them, we've studied them, you know, and again, I don't know if it's just the previous things that I've studied or read, but to me they just they read as if they're just devoid of any actual meaning in what they're saying oh okay, because I see you were quoting Hegel and all those people and I thought on our show we've kind of been rather upset with things that they've written the very same.
Speaker 3:Well, not all of them, but some of the people that you mentioned.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Hegel yeah, they're very. They're the darlings of the secular community.
Speaker 2:On a different, if I may bring up. We have a request here.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:For a question that has to be asked of the rabbi.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:From my friend Three minutes. From my friend Pete Hi Pete In Washington State in Seattle.
Speaker 3:Whoa far away.
Speaker 2:Yes, he is listening, and Pete said today in the Catholic Church we're celebrating something called the Feast of the Presentation.
Speaker 9:Okay.
Speaker 2:Where the baby is married. After the 40 days of her you know the giving birth she brings baby Jesus into the temple for the presentation and the question is male baby to be presented in the temple 40 days after birth? Does the Jewish presentation still continue to be celebrated?
Speaker 3:I have no idea what you're talking about presentation. I think what you're talking about is referenced in the five books of Moses and it's called the redemption of the firstborn called the redemption of the firstborn.
Speaker 3:It's basically there's no reason to present a male baby, except there is a ritual, for If the firstborn first to open the womb is a male and it's natural childbirth, it's pidyon haben, it is redemption of the firstborn. You may remember that Moses, that God said the firstborn are not, may remember that Moses that God said the firstborn are not going to be my priests, but you will redeem them from me, okay.
Speaker 2:The gospel says today, when the days were completed for their purification according to the law of Moses, mary and Joseph took Jesus up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord. Just as it is written in the law of the Lord every male that opens the womb shall be consecrated to the Lord.
Speaker 3:Just as it is written in the law of the Lord every male that opens the womb shall be consecrated to the Lord. That's not a presentation. That is redemption of the firstborn.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Okay, which is what I thought you were talking about. So that's what, pete, and yes, they are definitely doing that today. If the firstborn is male, to open the womb, natural childbirth. Okay, there you go, pete.
Speaker 2:Numbers, chapter 18. Oh, numbers chapter 18.
Speaker 3:Hey, you sounded like David there for a minute.
Speaker 2:I know you know Chapter and verse You're getting to be Protestant I have that GPT.
Speaker 3:Don't tell David he'll get a swelled head.
Speaker 2:Well, who's in charge next week? I don't know who was last week. You were last week, I think I was there before ok, so it's David next week ok, we'll find out if you're listening, david, we have just given you in your absence. You selected it's your lucky day, smile, you're on candid camera. Ok, well, it's your lucky day, smile, you're on candid camera. Ok, well, it's Super Bowl Sunday we'll still be here we will still be here, I know.
Speaker 3:Mario would really like to give up because he'd really like to see the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2:I hate all sports you do. Oh, I hate all sports.
Speaker 3:It's a totally meaningless group when we talk about football, he says who made the basket?
Speaker 2:So, friends, this is TNTH and you've been listening to the Show of Faith. Please, during this week, keep us in your prayers, because you are going to be in ours.