A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
March 2, 2025 The Sound of Peace and War
What does it mean to pursue peace in a world shadowed by conflict?
In this episode of A Show of Faith, we tackle this complex question through insightful dialogues among our diverse panel. As we often see global tensions rise, particularly with ongoing situations like the conflict between Ukraine and Russia, our hosts reflect on the intricate relationship between war, peace, and ethical leadership.
Join us as we explore how different faiths view peace and the underlying justice that should accompany it. Rabbi Stuart provides rich insights on the Hebrew word “shalom,” emphasizing that true peace means everything being in its rightful place—not merely the absence of war. Father Mario engages with the principles of Just War Theory, stressing the moral considerations necessary to justify conflict. In between, Rudy shares the millennial perspective, reminding us of the importance of active civic engagement in a world ripe with dissonance.
By delving into these crucial themes, we stimulate awareness about our roles in perpetuating conflict or fostering peace. We invite our audience to reflect on their thoughts regarding current global issues and how dialogue shapes our understanding of complex moral dilemmas. Let's engage in this timely conversation about today's weighty matters of war and justice.
Your thoughts matter; join our community as we navigate these critical topics together. Remember to subscribe, share, and leave your review!
There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there Telling me I've got to beware. I think it's time we stop Children. What's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. There's battle lines being drawn. Nobody's right if everybody's wrong. Young people speak in their minds, Getting so much resistance from behind Every time we stop. Hey, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. What's that sound? Everybody look what's going down.
Speaker 2:Welcome to A Show of Faith where a professor, priest, millennial and rabbi discuss theology, philosophy, morality, ethics, anything of interest in religion. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, hey, we'd love to hear from you. So email us at ashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom. That's a new email address for our email ashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard. Our priest is Father Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St Cyril of Alexandria, the 10,000 block of Westheimer. Hello, our professor is David Capes, baptist minister and director of academic programming for the Lanier Theological Library.
Speaker 3:Hey, great to see you guys this evening.
Speaker 2:Hey and Rudy Kogas, our millennial systems engineer. Master's degree in theology from University of St Thomas. I am Rabbi Stuart Federo, retired rabbi of Congregation Shaar HaShalom in the Clear Lake area of Houston, texas. Miranda's our board operator. Yeah, and tonight Crystal, what Crystal Krista. Crystal Crystal is here also helping us and Miranda and Crystal help us sound fantastic.
Speaker 3:We sure hope so. Now, rudy, I just got a note from Rudy. He said he's trying to call in, but take a look and see. Okay, hey. Rudy, try it if you can hear me, if you can hear me down there in Guatemala. Father Mario, you've been through a rough time, have you? Yes, you've been through a rough time. How did you know that I could?
Speaker 4:tell Just, you've been through a rough time. How did you know that I could tell Just by some things on my face? Just because of the stuff on your face? Yeah, no, I had some dental implants.
Speaker 3:Dental implants. Yeah, that's exciting.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's expensive it is. It's a full upper arch.
Speaker 3:Okay, wow, all the way around. Everything on the front, everything, whoa.
Speaker 4:And they do it on just a one shot, In other words not individual.
Speaker 3:So you get everything ready and you get it all lined up and you just kind of go.
Speaker 4:There was a few teeth that needed to be pulled Right, and then they stuck the roots. You know for the implants Uh-huh. And then they stuck the roots.
Speaker 3:You know for the implants Uh-huh, and then they stuck the implants in and these are Wow, wow, wow. These are the implants and now you've got to eat soft food for a while. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And then I get the permanent ones in three months.
Speaker 3:I sure hope you like scrambled eggs. Oh God no.
Speaker 4:Anyway, life goes on.
Speaker 3:Split pea goes on. Huh, not how do you like? Yeah, yeah, so hopefully rudy can can get in and get through.
Speaker 4:Yeah well, because of mario's mouth, he'll be able to get into where that is easier ah you know, you know, it is a sad day when someone who has been suffering something is being made fun of in the order of radio.
Speaker 1:I thought it was fun. It is, yeah, sad day. He has had it.
Speaker 4:Rudy's back.
Speaker 3:Rudy's on. Oh, Rudy's on Rudy, welcome Rudester. Hello Rudy, I don't think he's on Rudy, welcome Rudester.
Speaker 2:Hello Rudy.
Speaker 4:I don't think he's on.
Speaker 3:He'll be on here, there we go.
Speaker 4:Rudy.
Speaker 8:No, you guys are here. Oh there we go.
Speaker 3:Okay, we got you.
Speaker 2:Now we're stuck with him.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, we're stuck. Hey, guys, good to be with you. Hey, I'm show director tonight, which is good because Father Mario is here, but you know we're working on helping him feel better, right? Yes, we're going to bless him.
Speaker 2:Right, we will not put the burden upon him tonight.
Speaker 3:That's right, we'll put the burden upon somebody else. Hey, you know, this week there was a very rough sort of dust up Just a little In the Oval Office. Yeah, in the Oval Office between the President of Ukraine and the President of the United States and the Vice President and the Vice President as well. Rudy, I don't know if it made news down in your world, part of the world down there. Did you see that down here?
Speaker 8:Luckily for you, I've been somewhat Americanized and I do so. It's actually been on the news here too. It's kind of world famous because he's being at least in the left-leaning circles. He's kind of being portrayed as sort of an anti-freedom character. Trump is right for coming down on the president of Ukraine for this, but we can talk more about that later.
Speaker 3:Yeah, zelensky, apparently, and you know, I don't know the protocols of these kind of things, of what you can say and what you can't say, and those kinds of things when it comes to, you know, in the Oval Office, and particularly with the cameras rolling, right, Right, especially with the cameras rolling.
Speaker 3:It's one thing it's one thing, and so the two things that I I understand reading the New York Times is that President Trump was hoping well, he was hoping to hear just a big, big, big thank you for, you know, from Ukraine for all the kind of help that the US has been giving for a time, billions and billions of dollars. That's one thing, and the second thing he didn't want to hear was a plea from the president of Ukraine that we would guarantee the security of Ukraine in the future if we had some sort of a peace deal, so that we ourselves, as a country, would be the ones. Our president was not ready to hear that at this particular point. So, at any rate, we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the time that goes on.
Speaker 2:As I said before we came on the air, I think it's psychological. I think, that the president of the United States knows he's going to back out of helping the Ukraine, so he's creating a scenario to rationalize and justify his doing that. Okay, I think that when you get into this tiff, or he uses an excuse or a reason to get upset, kick him out, whatever that. This is. This is the way people react when they know they're about to do something wrong, or they want to rationalize or justify you're saying that of Trump.
Speaker 4:Yes, I am. I am not. I disagree with you.
Speaker 2:I'm sure you do. I disagree with you, but remember it was Putin who invaded the Ukraine. I don't disagree with you there.
Speaker 4:The Russians are the I agree with you there. But here's what. What are you saying? Oh, I hear myself really loud. I can hear you too Really loud, yes, Anyway. No see, there's a difference between what is called ideal politics and real politics.
Speaker 2:Right, okay, and real politics should never be in public.
Speaker 4:No, real politique is what Trump is doing. Trump does not want the shooting and the killing to go on and he's also saying I don't want to commit the United States to defend Zelensky and Ukraine and get us into World War III with the Russians, because to Russia Ukraine is an extremely important neighbor and they see it as a threat.
Speaker 2:I see it like the?
Speaker 4:U and mexico okay, so so all that trump is saying is look europe, europe in nato has not even spent the normal part of what they should be spending in terms of defense. And is that new? No, but it shouldn't be that way. It shouldn't just be cause, of course not. So all that Trump is saying is I'm not going to commit to defend Ukraine, which is 5,000 miles away, when you Europeans are not doing your part and you are living off of United States largesse and you want to defend. You put more money into your defense and you defend them Right but I don't think that.
Speaker 2:I just think that the overzealousness of the arguing and the you know, I think, is the psychological part.
Speaker 4:No, I don't. I disagree with you 100%.
Speaker 2:So you think it was set up or intellectually created?
Speaker 4:No, I think Zelensky wants the guarantees the United States would actually go to war with. Russia on behalf of Ukraine and I don't think. And Trump is saying I ain't doing that. And then he's saying look, europe, if you think it's that important. They are a heck of a lot closer to you than they are to us. They're a threat more to you than they are to us. Step up.
Speaker 2:And with that I agree, because NATO has never they've always relied on the US to pay for everything.
Speaker 4:But Trump has come to the point of saying enough. And here's the next part. That's interesting. I'll get the commentator. His name is on my mind, but anyway, he was saying one of the things that has happened that changed the mind of everybody is that we used to think Russia was a really strong superpower. They're not. They're not. They tried to invade Ukraine, and without even any soldiers from NATO, without any soldiers from NATOo, without any soldiers or nature, just arms, kept them at bay ukraine, and so they have no ability to consider themselves an equal superpower to the united states.
Speaker 4:They problem themselves to be pretty much of a paper tiger. Their equipment is awful, and and, and they, they just don't have it. And so Trump is saying look, nato made. Why was NATO created? It was created to defend against Russia, okay, communism. If you look at Russia right now, they are not able to even mount without even NATO involvement. They couldn't mount anything against the Ukrainians. And so NATO is not as critical as it used to be.
Speaker 2:NATO is not as critical. That's correct.
Speaker 4:It is important but not as critical as it used to be Right. But I think no, no, Mario hold on.
Speaker 8:I just need to make this very clear the reason that NATO is critical is because of the weapon specifications that come with the armament, which are directly tied to American and European military suppliers.
Speaker 4:That is correct.
Speaker 2:That is correct, but I think Wait, I'm not clear on your message. There, Rudy Say that again.
Speaker 8:Let's let him finish, go ahead, rudy. Well, I don't want to get locked to that, but I agree with what Father Mario is saying is that NATO has kind of lost its sort of role and purpose, if you will, and it's kind of boiled down to a lot of military armament specifications. I also wanted to say I kind of agree this is going to sound crazy, father Martin, I'm sorry but I kind of agree with the rabbi on this one, with what he's saying. When I think about the outburst that happened, I got the sense that it was a stage right, that it was a stage for something to happen or to not happen in the future, right?
Speaker 4:Whether it was going to be? I mean I disagree, but that's okay. I don't think that they invited. I don't think Trump invited Zelensky to have an argument in front of the press?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think it's egomaniacal to say you have to thank us, you have to. Where's the thank? You Well they should, yes, they should.
Speaker 4:They should Right. And not only that, they're asking for more and they're asking for American involvement and Trump is saying I'm not doing that anymore and that's.
Speaker 2:Zelensky's lack of tact. That's correct, yeah, which?
Speaker 3:is too bad, I'm wondering they I mean, I'm just thinking about the ins and outs of that Zelensky's. Clearly English is not his first language. He struggles with it and a lot of times you miss cultural cues when you're not a native speaker. He would have been better served if he'd had an interpreter in there that could help him actually read what the room was like and say things probably a bit more elegantly than he did.
Speaker 4:But also remember that Joe Biden has a screaming match with Zelensky too.
Speaker 2:I don't remember that, yes it was Look it up.
Speaker 4:Oh, I will Look it up. On the same topic On the same topic.
Speaker 2:Because Zelensky thought the US should go to war with Russia.
Speaker 4:Well, not necessarily go to war, but commit themselves to the point which they did, but to the point of I don't know if American arms I mean American arms, but I don't know how far Zelensky wanted more from Biden.
Speaker 3:Most boots on the ground, that kind of stuff. Ground, that kind of stuff. I think it is true, going back to what Father Mario was saying, that he was forcing the hands of the Europeans to say, and they've actually come up and they've said you know, we're going to be doing more. The Europeans, I think, are coming along and I think they're seeing the handwriting on the wall Because if the Ukraine falls, they're next.
Speaker 3:We need to go to a break. We'll be back. We're going to talk about war and peace Generally speaking. Oh, the book? Not exactly.
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Speaker 1:Say it again, yeah. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Say it again, y'all. I have a.
Speaker 2:In the 60s 70s. When this came out, I had one perspective. Now I'm not so sure I agree. Welcome back to our show of faith on the intensive of the answer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're talking about war and peace tonight. Given the kind of the uncomfortable exchange that took place between President Zelensky and our president, president Trump and Vice President Vance, I thought it'd be interesting that we spend a little time talking about peace and war tonight and what our different religions say about those things. We're going to say a lot of the same things, I think, because somewhat I mean war, you know. Yeah, I mean, what is it good for? Uh?
Speaker 3:I think there are things there are times, times that it is, and that's that's part of what I want to discuss tonight.
Speaker 2:So you have to tell the ukraine they were right to defend themselves yeah, absolutely going to war right right. So from their perspective, war is in this. What's, mario's your line about? A sad necessity or something?
Speaker 4:Violence, when justified, is not an option but a sad duty. Sad duty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so sometimes war is.
Speaker 3:Okay, let's start with the flip side of that. Let's talk about peace, One of the things I love yeah is Rabbi sitting here doing Peace, love and Woodstock Nation Right. So in Hebrew there's a word shalom.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:What does the word peace mean? I mean when you say that, when you hear that?
Speaker 2:Okay, but it's conceptual, it's not just a single word. Okay, in English we say peace, world around reality, and it means basically the world is not yet. It means the absence of war.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:That's not what it means in the Hebrew. In the Hebrew there's a sense of completion. Everything is complete, everything's in its place, everything's where it should be. There's a calm, there's a calm. So, for example, if God, god forbid, someone is sick, you know, like Mario had the surgery, or whatever. So we would say refuah, which means that healing.
Speaker 3:Thank you, yeah.
Speaker 2:And refuah shlema. Shlema means complete. So a complete healing. May your healing be complete. But you hear shalom in shlema, you hear the root letters.
Speaker 3:Oh, I see.
Speaker 2:So the sense of the word peace, shalom is not just nobody's making war against each other, but rather everything is right with the world. Everything's in its place, Everything's where it should be. There's a calm. There's a calm over everything.
Speaker 3:So it's a conception. Is it philosophical, is it religious? What is it exactly?
Speaker 2:Well, every word is both religious and philosophical. I mean, you can, in the context in which you're going to find whatever word you're talking about.
Speaker 3:Right, okay, in the context in which you're going to find whatever word you're talking about. Right okay, I mean as you think about it from a Hebrew standpoint.
Speaker 2:There's much more to the word than simply nobody at war. It's think of shepherds in their fields with their flock. Everything's peaceful.
Speaker 1:Rabbi.
Speaker 2:Rabbi.
Speaker 8:Yes, did you say that things? It's a sort of state where something is properly aligned to its intent or purpose, okay, or something is ordered correctly, as it was meant to be.
Speaker 2:Everything is in order. Yes, Okay, Everything is in its place. It's tranquil. It is, to use fancy terminology which I really hate, there's no strife. I love that word. Okay, it's like the word yeah, there's no strife. Everything's in its place. Everything's where it should be. It's not merely people aren't killing each other. It is much more than that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, is there a particular teaching from your scriptures, your Bible, that you think about with the word peace? That just comes to mind. I'll let you think about that.
Speaker 2:But you're asking an old man with bad memory to come up with the verses.
Speaker 3:But just a general teaching, because one of the things that we read over and again in the New Testament is that when Paul writes his letters, he says Grace to you and peace from God, our Father and Lord.
Speaker 2:Jesus Christ. That's the typical sort of opening, very Hebrew equivalence. Yeah, exactly. People will say but shalom. But they shouldn't.
Speaker 3:And in our worship services on a regular basis, we have the passing of the peace. We say peace, be with you.
Speaker 2:Peace, your most precious gift, you who have the passing of the peace, we say peace be with you, you who are the eternal source of peace. It's a line from one of the older old Hebrew prayer books. Old Hebrew prayer books.
Speaker 3:Is there a kind of a philosophy of peace, father Mario, or ideas of peace in the Catholic Church?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean strongly Because's remember, for us as Christians, it's when Jesus says I do not give you peace as the world gives peace. I give you peace as my peace I give you. And so what we're dealing with is peace with justice. And so what we're dealing with is peace with justice. And it's interesting because, going back to what we were talking about before, I see Trump as seeking a peace that is in accordance with Catholic just war theory. One of the things about Catholic just war theory is that a war can be justified first of all if it's a just cause, if it's defensive, but when the realistic prospects of winning do not cause more harm than good. So when Trump is saying I'm not going to get into World War III to gain a strip of Ukraine because that will put more danger into the world.
Speaker 4:I see what you're saying Okay and so, even though it is not ideal politics in the sense that, yes, Russia did invade. The Catholic understanding is that seeking that ideal should not bring in more catastrophe, and I think that's what Trump is saying.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So we need to go to a break. Okay, this is 1070 KNTH and we'll be right back.
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Speaker 1:The Answer the Answer To everything turn, turn, turn. There is a season. Turn, turn, turn there is a season Turn turn, turn and a time to every purpose under heaven, a time to be born, a time to die, a time to plant, a time to reap, a time to kill, a time to heal. A time to reap, a time to kill, a time to heal, a time to laugh, a time to weep Welcome back to A Show of Faith.
Speaker 2:So Psalm 2911, the eternal will give strength to his people. The eternal will bless his people with peace. 3414,. Depart from evil and do good. Seek peace and pursue it.
Speaker 3:3711, the meek shall inherit the earth and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. It's all over, All over all.
Speaker 4:The Hebrew Bible and Father Mario was talking about the fact that it's peace and justice together. Yeah, because from our perspective, as a Christian perspective, you can say peace and the Pax Romana was peace. But the Pax Romana was peace. Under the sword of domination, slaves could have peace as long as they were submissive. So it's not peace as an end in itself, it's peace and justice, peace and justice together.
Speaker 3:Rudy, what are you hearing down there? What are your thoughts? Living in the culture that you're in, though you're Americanized still, how do you see it? This idea of peace, and particularly?
Speaker 8:and I think this would sort of extend a lot to the United States is most people here. They just want to be left alone. They want to be in a country where the government doesn't come in, alienates them, takes away rights, takes away property. They want to be in a country that doesn't meddle in other things, alienates them, takes away rights, takes away property.
Speaker 8:They want to be in a country that doesn't meddle in other things. I mean Central America, specifically Mexico, and even the United States. I mean there's so many internal things going on. So when we look at these foreign wars right and Father Mario made the comment I mean it's like what is our interest? When you think about these past wars Vietnam, right, and Korea and these sort of drawn-out I mean Afghanistan we were in Afghanistan for over 20 years bombing them and with military presence there and to a large degree, I think that's what Trump is trying to avoid right is dragging us into another drawn-out conflict that's just mostly fought by. I mean, trump isn't going to go over there and fight. Zelensky isn't over there fighting. You know it's not the politicians that go fight, it's 18-, 19 20-year-olds that are out there bleeding and dying. You know it's not.
Speaker 3:And that's why I think you know you enter into war very guardedly, and we'll talk about that in a minute. But the whole idea that peace means more than just the fact that nobody's at war, but that things are being done in a just way, is peace God's gift. Stuart, from your idea, I mean as you were reading, it sounds like.
Speaker 2:God's going to give peace to his people. I think that the existence of peace is a gift from God but, like most things, sometimes you have to fight for peace, you have to work for it, you have to actively pursue it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I remember seeing signs in. I think it was the George Floyd time no justice, no peace, something like that.
Speaker 2:And then with K-N-O-W.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, those kind of things.
Speaker 2:And I think that's true.
Speaker 3:Let's come to the idea now on the other side of that war when is war? Let's go back, maybe, to the just war theory in a sense. When is war? Is war ever justified? The song War? What Is it Good For? Absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2:Right, but sometimes it is justified. Sometimes it is justified Self-defense.
Speaker 3:Right, right. So what does Judaism say about war?
Speaker 2:Here's a place where we're going to agree, like Mario said about violence in general, that sometimes it's a necessity, but more than that it becomes a sad duty. So you would say Judaism degrades Right because there's a just worth theory in Judaism, in the Bible.
Speaker 3:So what about? Thou shalt not murder? Go back to that.
Speaker 2:But it's not murder, murder is taking the life of the innocent, the soldier, across the yard from you, right, but there's this teaching Thou shalt not murder.
Speaker 9:But it's murder not killing.
Speaker 2:But that doesn't preclude war. No, because there are times like self-defense, okay, and if you're surrounded and they're about to enter your territory, cross the border into you, you have the right of first attack to defend.
Speaker 7:Yeah you do.
Speaker 2:So you are starting the war. You know it's the old kid's line. He started it when he hit me back. You know there are times where it's a sad duty. Okay.
Speaker 4:I want to add one thing, because I looked up at what I was trying to say about Catholic Just War Theory. Okay, and the principles three and four. The first principle the principles three and four. The first principle there must be a serious prospect of success. But four here's the kicker one the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders greater than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition. So you cannot. What Trump is saying is Russia may be weak in terms of its regular military, but it is a nuclear power and they're in an existential war and Putin is not. It won't be, won't be deterred from using them if need be. Okay. And so the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. What's the evil to be eliminated? Putin going after Ukraine.
Speaker 3:Right and pushing back to the prior border.
Speaker 4:That's right To eliminate. That you would trigger a lot more evils. That's what Trump is saying yes.
Speaker 2:Isn't it interesting that in every movie or science fiction story of a dystopian world it usually begins where there has already been a nuclear war, where human beings basically destroy themselves.
Speaker 3:Yes, A lot of the dystopian yeah, exactly Right. Yeah, exactly All right. So you didn't mention one and two, In other words, just war theory, the first idea and the second idea. So the first idea was what?
Speaker 4:Well, okay, the first idea is the damage inflicted by the aggressor. Let's make it Russia this time. The damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave and certain. That's already been demonstrated. Number two all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective that's already exhausted now.
Speaker 3:Now, but at this point to continue the war. That's the point. Yeah, I mean to continue the war. I mean it may have been just that they defended themselves and thought that they had a chance of success. Going back to that third quality there.
Speaker 2:Thus, it's not righteousness, it's power, and to the victor goes the spoils. The justice of the situation loses out because Russia's more powerful.
Speaker 4:See, I think that where Trump is, he's saying the use of American arms will produce evils and disorders greater than the evil to be eliminated.
Speaker 3:In case there is a nuclear exchange.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean you're dealing with a nuclear power.
Speaker 3:Right, right and Ukraine. Ironically, ukraine used to be a nuclear power.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and they gave up their nuclear because we guaranteed that was another one of these idiots.
Speaker 2:We fooled you. You trusted us, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, those kind of things.
Speaker 4:But those are the kinds of entanglements that Trump doesn't want to get into, and I don't blame him. I have really come to like Trump as a human being. I know lots of people. I don't, I do, I do. I think he's better than the Democrats, but I'm not fond of any of them.
Speaker 2:I think they all stink. I don't say he's a saint.
Speaker 4:He's not a saint, but I've heard him talk. You know the other day he was talking about well, what do we care? It's people over there dying, it's not Americans. And he says I don't care just about Americans, I care about all those Russian boys and all those Ukrainian boys that are dying there for nothing. And you know that says something about the man that he's concerned about. That.
Speaker 3:And you know he seemed to be very moved too by the deaths of the children in Israel at the hands of Hamas.
Speaker 7:Yes.
Speaker 3:I mean that seemed to have really hit a nerve with him.
Speaker 4:He's not a perfect guy.
Speaker 4:He's not a perfect guy, he's not your perfect christian, but I think the guy has a rough outline of a good, good moral sense now not his past, because every time I hear him criticize you know, I heard somebody on the view going oh no, we got to put a picture of all the the prostitutes that he's ever been with, and all that stuff, man alive. Are you ever saying the man can be forgiven? There's no forgiveness? No forgiveness because all they want to do is drag out his past. See, this is the kind of guy he is.
Speaker 2:No, you get rid of somebody because 50 years ago they said something that's right.
Speaker 4:So I'm not looking at the way he did. I've heard some of my friends are saying but that's the kind of man we don't want him representing us, why not? He's a forgiven sinner.
Speaker 3:I hope he is, he's giving me that impression, but he seems to have, I mean, as you described here, and I haven't looked into some of the things that you've been looking into but if he's thinking that deeply about it, about what these entanglements would create, and it would create a graver evil just by the use of weapons that would unleash horror, and he said it during the meeting with Zelensky.
Speaker 4:He said, Zelensky, you're playing around with World War III.
Speaker 2:So is he supposed to just give up his country for the sake of?
Speaker 4:peace. No, no, trump was giving him a way of achieving peace and getting American involvement, but not military involvement, economic involvement, because they understand that putin would be a lot less ready to kill americans if american companies were there, and then the united states would come in and defend americans you're talking about the mineral rights the mineral rights. That's right. It would be. It would be a booth companies and it would be good for them because it would create jobs for them and it would create jobs for us.
Speaker 2:And I see what you're saying. I just find it very ironic that it goes down to corporations, business and making money.
Speaker 4:It's life. That's what's called real politics, real politics Okay, I mean you want the best and sometimes you've got to get your hands a little dirty Right and we've got to get our hands a little dirty because if we don't go to a break, you talk about money, about companies. That's right. Coming back to Rudy, that's right, Rudy, we'll come back to you. This is 1070 KNTH and we'll be right back.
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Speaker 5:you've been incredible you really are, and you're very popular, more popular than you would even know.
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Speaker 7:Congratulations hey, 10, 70 and fm 103 3 the answer two, one, two, three, four.
Speaker 4:The Answer? All we are saying is give peace a chance. Is that the Beatles? Yes, yeah, that's John Lennon.
Speaker 2:All we are saying is give peace a chance, which was a great idea in the period in which they were saying it Give peace a chance it wasn't going to be 70 days.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but you know what's happening. He said give peace a chance, but forget about the human, either Right?
Speaker 2:Everybody's going to be fine. That's the other side of that. That's what I was saying earlier.
Speaker 4:Sometimes you have to go to war All we are saying I know you're saying that, but you're not saying much, give peace a chance.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to A Show of Faith. My name is Tim Simons.
Speaker 3:The answer All right, rudy, your turn, buddy. We're talking about here war, avoiding war, the real politic of war, and not necessarily what is ideally the best for everybody involved but sometimes you just take what you can get right.
Speaker 8:I thought about this verse in Matthew Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God.
Speaker 8:And you know, I think a lot about what's going on in Ukraine and I think about also, for example, what's going down in Nicaragua, and there's a lot of people suffering in Nicaragua and I'm not trying to compare. Every sort of conflict is its own animal right, but here we are with a country with a completely corrupt government system. People are starving, the church is being persecuted, people are being killed. I mean there's people are starving, the church is being persecuted, people are being killed. I mean there's people. So again going back to the point and to kind of bring it back to Ukraine, would the Ukrainian people have a greater probability of life and existence and substance if there was an immediate peace, even at the borders of where they were at? And and I know we can argue a lot about sovereignty in the state and the nations, and they have a right and absolutely they do. But the reality is, is Ukraine without Western intervention stands absolutely no chance right?
Speaker 8:absolutely none and even though russia is absolutely spent um, like father mario was saying, it still has a lot of armaments and a lot of and a lot of very big bombs superior military. Unfortunately, it all boils down to, in my opinion, resources right, and there's a lot of rare earth minerals in Ukraine, in Russia, and this isn't the first time that Putin invaded. He invaded Crimea back when.
Speaker 8:Obama was president. He did it again now when Biden. So this is the sort of Russian aggression, you know to what point. And I understand the fear right, because if you look back at what the Nazis were doing in Germany, they first started with a little bit then over here, then over there you know, when do you draw the line and say this oppressive regime can no longer continue?
Speaker 8:right, it's just who's going to pay the price, and the price is blood. Right, that's the price in a lot of it. It's the same thing that I think about Sorry, to kind of keep you out of it, but it's the same thing I think about. In Nicaragua and Venezuela, right, everybody speaks about revolution and this it's like okay, but are you willing to die, are you willing to put up your actions for it? And I'm speaking facetiously right, but that's what it takes is people to stand up, and even within Russia themselves? Right, but that's what it takes is people to stand up, and even within Russia themselves? Right, there has to be this courage and this sort of audacity to change things from the inside too, because without that, okay, so we stop now, and then what happens in four years, when Trump's out of the office and we get another silly Democrat in office? You know, hopefully Putin's moved on, but not likely.
Speaker 2:You remind me of the also 60s, 70s, maybe the 80s line. What if they gave a war and nobody came? What happens if the people of Russia just said we're not going to give our children? People of Ukraine said we're not going to give our children. People of Ukraine said we're not going to give our children. They won't do that. Nobody in the military would do that, but still.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think they would have a lot to lose if they in some ways like that. Speaking of which.
Speaker 2:Rudy, didn't Nicaragua, the president of Nicaragua, just take for himself dictatorial powers? Wasn't that Nicaragua would just take for himself dictatorial powers?
Speaker 8:Wasn't that.
Speaker 2:Nicaragua.
Speaker 8:Yeah, he suspended, I think like two or three weeks ago I think the guy's a little snippet on it but he suspended all future elections and he can now be president for forever. And here's this country, right and, and you go. And rabbi, I was just there, um, in january in nicaragua, and you go there. Let me tell you the country itself you're driving. You could leave your keys in your car, nobody's going to mug you, it's relatively safe. But let me tell you, when those cops and that police is out there doing their stops, it's the most scariest thing, man to be in a country in a situation where the military and the police I actually fear them more than some delinquent criminal on the street.
Speaker 2:Power corrupts Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Speaker 4:That's what you get when you get peace at all costs, right Peace without justice.
Speaker 3:Is the old saying, all is fair. In love and war it's not All is fair.
Speaker 2:All is not fair. That's why Patton was it.
Speaker 3:It pat, who said war is hell. Oh, absolutely yeah, yeah, it is so. So can you do anything in a time of war? No, no, I mean there there is war going on. So can you? Can you deceive your enemy, can you?
Speaker 4:oh yeah.
Speaker 7:So, can you deceive your enemy?
Speaker 3:You can deceive. There are certain things.
Speaker 4:But you cannot go after innocents, that's murder.
Speaker 3:So going after innocent women and children and older people 80-year-old folks.
Speaker 4:And it's interesting because the Catholic Church says it's interesting, you hear. The catechism concludes in the last paragraph these are traditional elements, enumer judgment of those who have the responsibility for the common good, Meaning it's not the church's responsibility to make the ultimate decisions. The decisions are made by the government. The churches and the religions can educate the government, but it's not our role to rule. No, it's politics and government.
Speaker 3:In other words, you can say now you have not met this criteria.
Speaker 7:That's correct.
Speaker 3:And you better take that into consideration. That's right, but you're not the one making the decision whether or not you're going to war or not going to war. That's correct, okay.
Speaker 8:The way I think about it, too, though, is there's a huge responsibility also with the citizens, though, to make sure that their government is even acting in a manner that is promoting the common good, even to begin with, right, that's correct.
Speaker 3:yes, now go back and say that again.
Speaker 8:Well, can you say it? Yeah, so what I was going to say is sometimes, and a lot of times, governments, you know, because power sometimes is centralized, right then a few bad apples can really kind of take a left turn. And what I'm saying is that, fundamentally though, as a citizen of a nation, of a sovereign state, it is your responsibility to make sure and in our case, right that we're voting for the right people, that we're pushing the right representatives, that we are doing our part in informing ourselves about the people that are leading us. I mean, I think a lot of the issue with Russia, with the United States, with really every country in the world, is that a lot of people are just complacent, right, and they don't want to really take active roles in as much as we want to march down streets and say free Palestine and all this other kind of nonsense, right. We've really been responsible citizens to promote that, that elect and promote leaders for the common good, and it starts with the citizen, in my mind.
Speaker 2:It starts with the citizen, and there's an old line that the people who do the electing get the government they deserve.
Speaker 4:And to some degree, that's what we got.
Speaker 3:But you think about poor folks in Nicaragua, though. Are they getting the government?
Speaker 2:No, because they had no choice.
Speaker 3:They didn't have a vote Right, and the same thing happened to Venezuela. The same thing happened in.
Speaker 2:Cuba, every dictatorship.
Speaker 3:Cuba. Is it Cuba? Cuba, every dictatorship? Yeah, anytime, you have that Exactly right, yeah, well, one of the things that I appreciate about people who have served in the armed forces and continue to serve in the armed forces is that they are true public servants and they deserve honor and respect for their service. There have been times when they've been mistreated, maltreated. There have been times in the Christian tradition when to serve in the Roman army, you know, first was to you know you couldn't be a Christian and actually be a soldier.
Speaker 2:Same thing with the Jews in Russia, even in modern times.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it was just you know. It's one thing to say. You know we, you are those servants of ours who help us with our security and with our freedom, and we honor you. And we honor you at this time of the year, whether it's a holiday or whether it's saying thank you for your service in a restaurant or whatever it might be, just recognizing that they are serving dutifully and wonderfully for us. I know we've got to go.
Speaker 2:I think Rudy's up next week.
Speaker 3:Rudy's up.
Speaker 4:You're up. I got it Okay. By the way, did you guys hear about the kidnapping at school?
Speaker 3:No, yep, which school?
Speaker 4:No, the kidnapping at school.
Speaker 3:Oh, oh.
Speaker 4:He woke up.
Speaker 3:Oh, no, oh, I didn't hear about that. He woke up, he woke up, I got it. Kidnapping, kidnapping, I got it. Yes, jeez, I got it, I knew it.
Speaker 2:I knew it, it's late at night I know.
Speaker 3:Gosh Well you can help us, but you can only take us so far.
Speaker 4:Yes, why did the egg have a day off? Because it's Friday. Friday. Okay, folks, this is 1070 KNTH. Please listen to us next week. At the same time, keep us in your prayers, because you are going to be in ours.
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