A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
March 9, 2025 We are dust, and to dust we shall return.
Why do humans crave tangible expressions of their faith? From the mark of ashes on foreheads to the kippah on a Jewish man's head, religious symbols offer powerful reminders of our spiritual commitments in a physical world.
Our conversation begins with Ash Wednesday and its curious popularity - it's not a day of obligation for Catholics, yet churches overflow with attendees seeking the traditional mark of ashes. Father Mario humorously describes "A&P Catholics" who attend only on Ash Wednesday and Palm Sunday, sparking a deeper discussion about what drives people to participate in these visible rituals.
The panel unpacks the meaning behind Lent's 40 days of fasting and reflection. Rather than punishment, this penitential season offers liberation from modern distractions that separate us from spiritual awareness. Rudy shares how fasting from comforts - whether food, social media, or entertainment - creates space for reconnection with what truly matters, while helping us empathize with those who suffer daily deprivation.
When Rabbi Stuart explains the kippah as a physical reminder of God's presence, the conversation expands to how religious symbols across traditions serve as tangible expressions of spiritual relationships. From crosses around necks to turbans worn by Sikhs, these embodied practices reflect a universal human need for physical reminders of transcendent realities.
David offers a profound insight: "None of us have ever seen a human being that didn't have a body." Our religious symbols acknowledge that faith isn't merely conceptual but lived through our physical experiences. The archeological evidence Rudy shares suggests humans have sought symbolic expressions of spiritual meaning since our earliest history.
Listen as our professor, priest, millennial and rabbi find surprising common ground in understanding how these outward expressions of faith help us navigate our mortality while connecting us to eternal truths. What symbols matter in your spiritual journey?
There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there Telling me I've got to beware. I think it's time we stop. Children, what's that sound? Everybody, look what's going down. There's a battle line being drawn. Tonight will be one of them. Nobody's right If everybody's wrong. Read the first paragraph of Rudy's. Young people speak in their minds Are getting so much resistance From behind Every time we stop. Hey, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down.
Speaker 3:Welcome to A Show of Faith where a professor, priest, millennial and rabbi discuss theology, philosophy, morality, ethics and anything else of interest in religion. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, hey, we'd love to hear from you. So email us at ashowoffaith1070. That's ashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard. Our professor is David Capes, baptist minister and director of academic programming for the Lanier Theological Library.
Speaker 4:Gentlemen, good to hear from you.
Speaker 3:And you too. Our priest is Father Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St Cyril of Alexandria, in the 10,000 block of Westheimer.
Speaker 5:Hello.
Speaker 3:Rudy Cohn is our millennial systems engineer, has his master's degree in theology from the University of St Thomas. Howdy howdy. I am Rabbi Stuart Federo, retired rabbi of Congregation Sha'ar HaShalom, the Clear Lake area of Houston, texas. Miranda is our board operator and Miranda helps us sound fantastic. And Rudy, you're on.
Speaker 6:Hi, Damn Rudy Rudy. It is my turn to be show director.
Speaker 4:Hey, Rudy, I don't know if you can hear me or not, but you stepped in a hornet's nest.
Speaker 6:Well, thank you.
Speaker 4:But you didn't know it, and so you are to be forgiven.
Speaker 3:No, okay.
Speaker 5:Rudy, I have no idea why you stepped in a hornet's nest, but I'm about to find out.
Speaker 6:Tell me why. Well, we're going to find out together. Well, the first thing that I actually wanted to talk a little bit about is just kind of thoughts and prayer to Pope Francis. He's been pretty sick. I think he's doing a little better, but I guess I just wanted to spend a moment. He's not been doing very well health-wise, so anybody out there, I mean, it's just it's not a good condition what he has, and he's in a lot of pain, so any prayers for him is always a good thing.
Speaker 6:Yeah, okay, so we had, as Catholics, a pretty sort of significant event we could call, or tradition that we engage in, and it is essentially the start, if you will, of what marks a particular time of our liturgical year. The liturgical year is different than the calendar year. It goes with a different rhythm, right, and so it marks what we went through on Wednesday. This last Wednesday was the first day of Lent and it got me thinking, because I never I mean, I obviously have studied from a Catholic perspective right, some of the readings and it always kind of got to me as to why we engage in this right, and of course there's a lot of sort of biblical references and traditions. But it also got me thinking about a lot of the other sort of symbols and things that we do that are essentially, as much as one could argue, inward-facing. Outward-facing right I mean for Lent, for people that don't know it not always includes a Mass right, which is the entire ritual of the Mass where you receive the Eucharist and you go through sometimes.
Speaker 6:That's where you receive the Eucharist and you go through sometimes. And, Father Mark, I don't know if you guys I don't remember just doing the ash ritual, as a matter of fact the majority of the time, the majority of services on Ash Wednesday does not include a celebration of the Eucharist.
Speaker 5:Most of the time it's just a distribution of ashes. Because it's Ash Wednesday is probably the second most attended service when it's really not a day of obligation for Catholics, but we always Catholic. This is a typical Catholic joke because the two main days where people attend church, I mean the churches are just busting at the seams and you might think it's Christmas and Easter, but it is not. It's actually Ash Wednesday and Palm Sunday.
Speaker 3:And Palm Sunday is number one.
Speaker 5:Yeah, palm Sunday is amazing. And so what we? Some of you older Catholics will get this joke, others of you won't. Older Catholics will get this joke, others of you won't. We call. There are people who just come to church on Ash Wednesday and Palm Sunday and we call them A&P Catholics A&P like the grocery store. Like the grocery store. So A&P used to be a grocery store. So anyway, Rudy, go ahead. Used to be a grocery store.
Speaker 3:Anyway, Rudy, go ahead. Rudy, can you and Mario explain what Ash Wednesday is, what the ritual's involved in it?
Speaker 5:Yeah, Rudy, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Unlike me, there are a lot of Catholic impaired out there.
Speaker 6:Yeah, so physically, what happens is you go into the church and it's a particular ritual, there's particular readings, and essentially what happens is there is the ashes are placed on your forehead, and these are ashes that are held from palms from the previous years Palm Sunday, right, yes, these same palms. They're burned, essentially, and made into ash in a particular way. They're conserved, and so there's a bit of a—it's interesting what Father Mario talks about but essentially it's for us to remember that we are essentially dust and it's not necessarily for us to sort of despair, right, that it's not something to think about morbidly, to think about morbidly, but essentially it's a call for humility, to remember that this life and this particular plane or sort of path that we're in is just temporary, yeah, but remember this is actually a quote from Genesis, because in Genesis God says to Adam and Eve you were dust and to dust you shall return.
Speaker 5:And so it's a reminder every day, because we as human beings tend to make this life the end all and be all, and a lot of in what the, the, the church, is trying to say to you is is don't think that this, is this, the kingdom of this world, is your ultimate destiny, that your ultimate destiny is the, the kingdom of heaven. And so, um, we, you know it's important, we, that we take seriously this world, that we work towards making this world as just and filled with goodness as humanly possible and seek the common good. But at the same time, we cannot make this world absolute, because our hope lies beyond this world.
Speaker 3:Mario best line I've ever heard you can go to your gymnasiums, you can run a marathon, you can run every day, jog every day. You're still going to die. That's right.
Speaker 5:That's right.
Speaker 6:There's a particular quote in Corinthians, and it says we do not fix our eyes on what is seen but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary but what is unseen is eternal. So it's just, it's a kind of a call for us to see beyond, right. And it's interesting what you said, though, father Mark, because it got me thinking, because I got into this conversation with my wife and, of course, course, the church was like absolutely packed, right, we couldn't find a parking spot. I had to drive around, I was a few minutes late. It was a bit stressful, right.
Speaker 6:And look, this isn't like something to boast about, but I go to church every Sunday. Right, that is a day of obligation. According to our Catholic tradition, that is the day that we're supposed to go. There's other days, of course, but the influx of people that go to receive these ashes, I mean it's like 5x, right. I mean it's really impressive the amount of people that go on this particular day.
Speaker 6:So it got me thinking, right, is there's this sort of like and I don't want to sound critical, and this is kind of what I wanted to talk a little bit about and I also wanted to talk about whether this is essentially, should we be happy that people are coming to church or is this a sort of dual hypocrisy, like an extreme hypocrisy that exists?
Speaker 6:Because here we are in this particular day, right, and it's a day where you're physically put ashes right and look, I went to the noon service, if you will, and so for the next six, seven, eight hours, until I took a shower, I had a black cross of ashes on my forehead right and I had meetings. I had to talk to people and this is something visible, right, like you know, you see these people in the street, you know who goes and who doesn't, but part of me just was sort of caught in this. I don't know if it's just my ego or something that I was thinking about, but I just thought, man, there's just. So what is it about Catholicism and us in particular, that we're these sort of and us in?
Speaker 6:particular that we're these sort of what do you call?
Speaker 5:it just kind of A&P right Practitioners, if you will. No, but see, this is something that I have to deal with every year because I get people like some of our—and David, maybe you can help understand this but some of our Catholics get attacked or criticized for saying because you know, jesus says whenever you fast, wash your face and don't let anybody else know you're fasting. And the church has not forgotten that gospel. As a matter of fact, when you go to the services for that day, for Ash Wednesday, that is the actual gospel that is read. When you fast, wash your face, and so it sounds like at first you're going. What are you Catholics doing? You're proclaiming the very thing you're doing is the gospel says don't to do it.
Speaker 5:So the church is not trying to hide from that, but what the church is basically saying is there's a difference between what is called a public fast and a private fast. A public fast what is Ash Wednesday is the only day that it is. The Catholic Church is calling for all of its members to go into a public fast, and so what we do is mark. It's a reminder, and when you see the cross of ashes on everybody else, on other people, it reminds you because you're not going to look at yourself very often. You may look in the mirror once or twice, but you look around yourself and you see all of these people with ashes, and so it reminds you that life is passing and that all the people around you are passing.
Speaker 5:So, by the way, for some reason it says like your mic is sounding like you're very far away, stuart. I'm just. I, okay, I don't know what else to, and of course I can only hear out of my left ear from this mic, so I don't know what the mics are doing tonight. All right, but anyway, this is time for a break. This is 1070 K and THM.
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Speaker 1:The Answer Give him tulips like roses and clover, then tell him that his lonesome nights are over.
Speaker 5:Welcome back here to the show of faith. Okay, david, I just made a comment, mainly because we always have to say that poor David has to represent all Protestants, all the way from the snake handlers in what is it? Kentucky, all the way to the Queens, the Queens High Church. But, david, we go through it every year. You know that. Why do you Catholics are doing that? Is it at all in any Protestant churches? The whole idea of Ash Wednesday observed.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I would say the majority of Protestant churches do celebrate, recognize Ash Wednesday, and that includes the third largest Christian denomination in the world, which is the Anglican Communion, which is all over Africa and Europe and North America, various parts of the world. So, yeah, it's well-practiced. There are a lot of groups that don't, though. Those are groups that are most likely to criticize Catholics or anyone for kind of any display. Now let me go back to the passage that you were talking about. One of the things that Jesus was concerned about was that people sometimes practice righteous acts in order to be seen by human beings, you know, and not by God.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 4:They do it for the eyes of human beings and basically Jesus says if that's your motivation, that's what's motivating you to act. So, whether it's a Catholic who is, you know, going to Ash Wednesday, let's say they're going to Ash Wednesday because they have a lot of Catholic clients and they want them to know that they're right in there with them. If that's their motivation, then there's really not much God can do with that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and it's interesting the way that Jesus reacts to it. He says they have received their reward.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, you know. In other words, the praise and adoration of people is a reward.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 4:People applaud you or they come to your business because they think you're spiritual or because you put a cross on the back of your truck, or whatever it might be. If that's why they come and that's why you put it on there, then that is your reward. You're not getting any more rewards. But with God, what is done in secret? Now, that doesn't mean that there are not public times, like you described A public fast. Proclaim a public fast. The book of Joel talks about that in chapter 2, I think, beginning of chapter 2. Proclaim a convocation, you know, call for a fast of the people. So there are times that it's private, times that it's public, and this is one of the most important and significant public moments as well.
Speaker 5:Stuart, yeah.
Speaker 3:Is that better?
Speaker 5:I don't know how does he sound, David?
Speaker 4:I'm hearing you better.
Speaker 3:Okay, that was Sharon from Dallas, who used to be our producer and run the board for us. It was her suggestion to move. I didn't even think about it, but yeah, good, thank you Sharon very much and thanks for listening Way to go.
Speaker 4:Sharon, you're a rock, You're a rock.
Speaker 3:We miss you.
Speaker 4:We do. We do so, stuart, one of the things the reason I said this could be a minefield or an important thing, I think I said is because Rudy sort of implied at the very beginning that the booths of Ash Wednesday lie in Judaism.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I saw that.
Speaker 4:I think that was your concern, as you said.
Speaker 3:That's one way to word it. That's not how I would word it. How would you word it?
Speaker 3:How would you say it say that every single religion on planet earth that I know of has some form of expression of the need to reconcile with god from either sinning or well, basically from sinning. So I don't think that this necessarily was one of the many times that Christianity appropriated from Judaism because of their size and bullying and belief that they are grafted in, their false belief that they're grafted in. I think this was just simply a way to express that, and I don't know any place in the Hebrew scriptures that I can think of which may or may not be accurate where they take something, burn it and put ashes all over themselves, David, you might be able to remember. I can't think of any place where that's done.
Speaker 5:In the Scriptures. In the Hebrew Scriptures yeah, in the Hebrew Scriptures. Go ahead, Dave.
Speaker 6:Rudy, go ahead. Dave, I did a little bit of research because it's not something that I actually agree with the rabbi any semblance of Judaism or Christianity or anything. People are finding ways, how would you say, to sort of prepare others for an afterlife and to sort of atone. So in 2 Samuel it talks about after the rape of Tamar, and she specifically puts ashes on her head after this. And then of course there's Nineveh, right in the book of Jonah.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, but ashes is a symbol of mourning. It's not penitence, it's not repentance, it is an act of being in mourning, of expressing grief, and I don't believe it's related at all to the idea of ashes to ashes, dust to dust or the dust returns to dust from which it came. The spirit soul goes back to God who gave it. It's an expression of grief.
Speaker 5:Well, the only thing is. The example that I heard one time was Esther. When Esther places, she is about to or the, you guys can tell me the history of?
Speaker 3:this she's going to go to the king and and she instead of her perfume.
Speaker 5:she puts dust and ashes and dung. In the Bible it says you know, she places dung on her head, right, but I don't. That's kind of a penitential.
Speaker 3:She is Right. That's why she fasted before going to see the king.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but she does so with ashes and dung.
Speaker 3:But again, taking that and turning it into Ash Wednesday is a quantum leap.
Speaker 5:It could be. It could be, but I'm very grateful that we don't Not uncommon for cultural appropriation. Oh God, get out of here with cultural appropriation.
Speaker 8:I had to get out of there. I had to move chairs.
Speaker 5:But let me tell you, I'm just grateful that we have Ash Wednesday and not Dung Wednesday. Okay, so this is.
Speaker 4:Yes, I'm with you, I'm with you.
Speaker 5:Okay, this is 1070 KNTH and we'll be right back AM.
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Speaker 5:Here we come.
Speaker 1:Walking down the street.
Speaker 3:We get the funniest looks from everyone we meet.
Speaker 1:Hey, hey, we're the monkeys and people say we're mocking around, we're too busy singing to put anybody down Go where we want down.
Speaker 3:Okay, welcome back to A Show of Faith on AM 1070. The Answer.
Speaker 5:Rudy, I don't know where you want to take this, but I think we've talked enough about ashes and I think I would prefer to go on to the whole idea of fasting too. What's the whole point of fasting and almsgiving and all the other? As Stuart said, is it a penitential season, and what do we mean by a penitential?
Speaker 3:season. Right, exactly, that was actually Rudy's word for it.
Speaker 5:Go ahead, Rudy.
Speaker 6:Yeah, no, no, I think it's a crucial thing, right. So there's a lot of symbolism, right, and I think it's steeped in a lot of history, but one of the main things that happens with Lent, too, is this particular time. So we're sort of preparing, right, we're preparing when we're preparing, but one of the things that we're called to is to fast, right, and particularly I mean, as the Church puts it, from certain types of food. Now, of course, there's certain health restrictions. Some people can't fast, some people maybe are diabetic, you know. So there's a couple of things, but it doesn't always have to be food, right, there's a lot of things that distract us, that essentially bring, let's say, a particular type of pleasure or can deflect our attention from what's truly sort of, let's say, important and matters in life. And this is the time, this particular time is something that we're called to focus on and it's how we essentially reconnect, right. So there's a particular passage where they ask Jesus but Master, where did we see you?
Speaker 6:right, and Jesus responds you know, when you didn't visit me in the jails, when you didn't feed me, when you didn't clothe me, and sometimes, you know, we and myself I live a very privileged, very privileged life and I'm very, very thankful for the blessings that God has given me. But sometimes it's important to feel and one of the things that I fact with is food but sometimes it's important to feel the bite of hunger. You know, it sort of ignites this understanding in you that you come to this realization that there's a lot of people really suffering in the world and there's a lot of people that don't have enough to eat, that maybe aren't warm in the winters or don't have a home or anything to be on. So it's an important time right now to kind of take inventory of the things that we have and to be thankful, but also to look outside of yourself and to see how we can be true disciples, right at least within the calling that we receive.
Speaker 5:David? Do Baptists practice the practices of Lent? Is there any sense of a season like this.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it depends upon the church. There are some that do and some that don't, but more and more Protestants are sort of returning to that, because I think there's a sense of history and importance of liturgy that people are reclaiming and importance of liturgy that people are reclaiming.
Speaker 4:And today, in the modern world, you know it might begin with ashes and the imposition of ashes, but ashes are a symbol of the fact that we are to humble ourselves and to come to God humbly. And so it is a penitential season, just like other religions might hold, Just like Stuart, you have penitential seasons as well. Absolutely high holiday season, yeah, so important, because we are preparing our hearts for Easter. And so these 40 days of Lent, which doesn't include six days of Sundays, so it's 46 days in all is a season of getting the body and the heart and the mind and the spirit and everything kind of lined up together, hopefully in union with God and with the church and with God's people.
Speaker 5:Stuart, what's what is let me ask you this question, and I ask it of all of the three of us, of four of us Exactly the word penitential In Spanish. It's interesting because, rudy, you know that in the word penitencia, now the word penitencia, now what penitencia in Spanish has the? If you were going to translate it, you would call it punishment. Really Penitentiary, wouldn't you say, rudy, like penitentiary, rudy?
Speaker 6:Yeah, yeah, I think I mean when I think of penance, it's penance. It's like a penitentiary it's penitentiary.
Speaker 5:Yes, well, the word penitentiary in Spanish penitencia means punishment, penitencia means punishment, and so when you say when I was growing up, that was something that I had to deal with when you call it a penitential season, what I'm hearing is a season of punishment.
Speaker 3:But I thought that, like what Rudy?
Speaker 5:said Go ahead, Rudy.
Speaker 6:Well, it's interesting because jails are also called penitentiary. Right, Right yeah.
Speaker 5:So, david, and.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we don't look at it as punishment as much as the idea of repentance.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:And I don't know that you'll hear many Protestants using the term penitential season as much as maybe in Catholic theology, but for us it's more of a time of consciously turning to God. Consciously turning. You were talking earlier about what you fast from, and I heard this morning at church a fellow minister talk about how he was one of the things he had chosen and felt like he needed to surrender was listening to the radio in the car. Now, apparently he didn't listen to AIM 1070,. The Answer because he wouldn't have made
Speaker 4:that decision. But I mean, I can see what he's saying because he was saying that, you know, when I have a longer time in the car, there's more time to pray, more time to think, more time to practice God's presence, as opposed to just turning on the radio and letting that airways be filled, right, that kind of thing so, but it's a conscious turning to god, which is what, which is what we see in the life of jesus after he was tempted. Um, we see that he he well before actually, uh, when he is is baptized. He's not turning to god, but his life is taking a change. There's a turning point in his life, let's say, and he's turning now to a public ministry that was going to be unique and important, and so we're to do the same, we're to do the same, rudy, when you were talking about getting rid of the things that distract you from God, that was in reference to people Catholics giving stuff up for Lent, correct?
Speaker 6:It could be yeah, and I guess how I could expand stuff. It could be Netflix. It could be not getting on Twitter.
Speaker 3:But, Rudy, there doesn't seem to me to be an element of punishment in that. That is a choice to say I need to redirect my attentions. That's not punishment, though, is it?
Speaker 6:Well, no, and I think that's sort of the dichotomy Mario's talking about too, is the way the word sounds. Right, it's like penance, it's something that you're supposed to be punishing, but the reality is it's quite liberating, right, Because it frees you from these things that have us you know, I think we would all argue in some sense enslaved.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 6:That they have us.
Speaker 3:Go ahead, Robert. No, go ahead.
Speaker 6:Well, and so when we take these moments, I think it's important because there's so much noise in the world today, and I think this is why this time is so critical and I wanted to spend a little bit of time, because the fasting, the sort of outward symbolism, right as much as the ashes. Okay, yeah, that's only one day, but it's this continual fasting, right, and this continual let's call it penitence or giving something up, but what you're doing is really, at least from the Catholic perspective, is we're turning over sin, right, we're turning over these things that distract us from God, and trying to deepen this relationship, and that's what we're really focused on in this time.
Speaker 3:Rudy. A couple of nights ago, middle of last week, it was about 11 o'clock at night and I decided to turn on. God help me. What's it called? I forgot the name. But give me a second TikTok, oh. Rabbi, when I looked up it was 3 o' tick, tock oh rabbi, when I when I looked up, it was three o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 6:Oh, my God.
Speaker 3:Four hours and I didn't even realize how the time went, and talk about distractions and and things that suck the life out of you. I just it was. I was stunned. Stunned that it just it. It it just time didn't? The clocks didn't seem to tick and it was like four hours later. So there are plenty of things that distract us and, I think, that are meant to distract us.
Speaker 4:Well, you know, the Chinese have those four hours of yours. You should ask for them back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I wish I could.
Speaker 6:Four hours. You should ask for them back. Yeah, I wish I could, rabbi. I think the thing that surprised me the most is the amount of scientific study that has gone in to find ways to keep you engaged right.
Speaker 7:To addict you.
Speaker 6:Yeah, but did you feel tired? I'm sure you felt tired the next day.
Speaker 3:Yes, because that was lack of sleep.
Speaker 6:Right.
Speaker 3:And how one flows into another One will be funny, the next will be cute, the next will be intellectual. It touches all the buttons and keeps you looking.
Speaker 6:You know there's this program. I know we have to go to a break, but in the past year something I've done it's called Exodus 90. And essentially it's a group of guys and it's at least specifically for men, the one I participate in. But we get together once a week and it's via Zoom. But it's kind of this very particular giving up of quote, unquote, these comforts, right, for example, taking only cold showers, going to work out every day, doing some sort of exercise, cutting out sugars. So these are the things that you sort of engage in and unintentionally right, but in a sense to stop distracting you, to kind of get you to refocus. And I know that if we don't go to a break, Father Mario is going to.
Speaker 5:Yes, I'm going. Going to. Yes, I'm going to have a cow.
Speaker 3:He knows you so well, he can see you even though he's not here.
Speaker 5:This is 1070 KNGH and we'll be right back AM 1070 and FM 103.3, the answer.
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Speaker 9:800 for relief, for relief factor you can hear this today at preggertopiacom.
Speaker 12:I'm a very picky eater, it's hard for me to go out to restaurants and order things off the menu without altering it, and I was wondering if you thought that was rude or okay to do.
Speaker 8:I think it's entirely okay to do my wife, for example. She insists on putting avocado in virtually everything she eats. You know they charge $26 extra and everybody's happy except me.
Speaker 9:Hear the entire episode. It's for PragerTopia. Members only Go to Prager Topia. Members only Go to pragertopiacom.
Speaker 2:Mike Gallagher explains the president's stance on the war in Ukraine.
Speaker 7:He wants the killing to end, he wants the war to end and he's not going to take a side Because there are young Russian boys that are being killed, there are young Ukrainians being killed. It's a humanity issue and I'm confident President Trump is going to help broker peace between these two nations.
Speaker 2:The Mike Gallagher Show weekday mornings at 8, 1070 and FM 1033. The answer.
Speaker 1:Come on, baby, let's do the twist. Come on, baby, let's do the twist. Come on, baby, let's do the twist.
Speaker 5:Take me by my little hand and go like this Be a twist, baby, baby twist. I didn't get that one. And welcome back to the show of faith. Here we go. Rudy, where do you want to go next?
Speaker 6:Okay, I wanted to kind of close out and talk a little bit about some of the things that within each of our traditions there's certain symbols and outward facing elements that we do. And, rabbi, I thought of you and, sorry, I'm going to say the name Is it called the kippah? What?
Speaker 3:The head covering. The head covering yeah, yeah, kippah or yarmulke. Yarmulke is actually German, from the center of Germany, but kippah is more the modern Hebrew, and it's a thing that men wear in order to keep God on their mind, remind that there's someone above you.
Speaker 6:And I find it interesting because it's something that you engage in every day, right as much as your hair allows or doesn't, but it's something that you do every day, that you engage in, that people can immediately identify. Yes, I mean because when you see it you know, okay well that guy?
Speaker 3:Well, there's, yes.
Speaker 6:Well, there's a lot of corruption, maybe to people doing this, maybe for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 3:Well, now the corruption is people who aren't even Jewish wearing them so that they can present themselves as if they are.
Speaker 2:But yes at any rate?
Speaker 3:yes. But the ashes on the forehead, the crosses around the neck, stars of David around the neck, any other religious symbol? People put it on their cars. They are outwardly expressing their religious affiliations.
Speaker 6:So I wanted to talk is there something that you guys find, within the sort of today's day and time, that we find that has become taboo, that we find that has become just something that's seen in today's culture by others? I mean kind of. I guess I wanted to check this from each of your perspectives.
Speaker 6:I mean, father Mark, I thought about the collar right, lamar, I thought about the collar right, the sort of the white strip that you wear. I forget the name, yeah, but there's certain things that you wear, right. I mean, do you still wear that today, even though you're retired? Does that mean you've got to wear that anymore?
Speaker 5:You mean the clerical collar, uh-huh. Oh yeah, I mean, yeah, you're supposed to wear it. Yeah, sometimes I wear it and sometimes I don't.
Speaker 3:But are you supposed to wear it all the time?
Speaker 5:No.
Speaker 3:When you're doing priestly stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 5:But I don't understand. What did you mean by? What does that have to do with?
Speaker 3:Rudy, I want to add something to what I said. I think that these expressions start over, that the wearing of these visible signs of religious affiliation are physical, tangible, touchable signs of a spiritual relationship. Do you remember and this is, I believe, I think, more Protestant than Catholic, but do you remember? Well, you may not have even been born yet, but there were people who would wear bracelets and on the bracelet it would say WWJD what would Jesus do? And it's a physical reminder of a spiritual relationship and human beings need their physical reminders. We need things physically to remind us. You know, sometimes to do the right thing, we need our physical reminders, and it could be a cross, it could be a Star of David, it could be anything. You know, religious jewelry of any kind, you know it could be. The Sikh community has a turban, I believe. Right, yeah, many religions, if not all religions, one way or the other have physical expressions of the spiritual relationship that they personally believe in.
Speaker 4:Well, part of that, I think, is a recognition that we're deeply embodied human beings. I mean human beings. None of us have ever seen a human being that didn't have a body, and there's just something about being physically bodied that means that we need these things, or that these things are useful to us. Helpful to us. Could we do without it? Well, probably, yes, we could. And there are some church traditions where you walk into the church and somebody asked about this the other day at our Lanier Theological Library they walked into their church and they had white on their walls and they had no crosses, they had no artwork, no stained glass windows, those kinds of things, which is not obviously the way that the church has been throughout all of history. But that's a movement that is saying that we are not those people that need that physical reminder.
Speaker 4:But I think we are Christ, which I know is a deeply Christian ideal. Is necessitates the fact that we have these physical, touchable, smellable, tangible reminders of faith, and then it brings us back to our body. It brings us back. I think that's what the ashes are about. I think the ashes are there to bring us back to our body. And if we want to think about religions only between our ears and only in our head, and only in some esoteric, futuristic, far-off thing. Well, doggone it. We ought to be reminded that religion is about the fact that everyone is fading, right? Every human being that's alive right now is fading, and their bodies are going to fade and they're going to, through weakness, enter into death. So all of that is a reminder of that.
Speaker 6:I'm reminded of something I was reading in this book Sapiens. I don't know if you guys are familiar with it.
Speaker 3:What's the?
Speaker 6:name of it Sapiens, sapiens.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 6:Like Homo sapiens. It's an anthropologist. I think he's actually Israeli, but quite atheist. Great pitfalls in his book is a lot of the early burials that we find with human remains. Have people adorned with things, with bracelets, with headwear, with these sorts of symbols? Right, this focus?
Speaker 6:And it's interesting to think about how long since time was time, or since humans were humans, humans have been concerned about, in some essence, these symbols and the beauty, I would say, of these symbols. Right, because they point to the greatest love of all and that's, I mean, I would argue that's God. Right, but they point to something eternal and and every human being, I think, whether we, we want to accept it or not, has this notion of of eternity and has this notion of of that. There's that this, this life right now, is just transient, and whether you believe that it all ends and the lights go out and nothing ever happens, okay, but you still have actions that you perform with other people that are going to live on forever, because those actions are going to have repercussions across generations and across generations and across generations. So there's really a lot of things that I think culturally depend so much on the way that we carry these symbols and the meaning that we carry with them, like you were saying, rabbi.
Speaker 6:So I find these types of actions even though maybe it might seem silly, or some people use it in a corrupt way, like you were saying, rabbi, that they want to be part of something when they're not, or, mario, right, they show up to church on two days out of the entire year into this notion that humans, we seek this sort of meaning somehow and to align ourselves with, let's call it, a tribe or a people or a group, right, that we sort of belong to this identity that we seek. And well for us, it's identity in Christ that we find this transcendence right. So I know we've got about two minutes left so far. I think maybe you should do the closing?
Speaker 5:Well, not yet, but let me ask one question of David and Stuart. Is the book of Esther in your Bible?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 5:But is it because the book of Esther? I was looking at chapter 14, verse 2, and it doesn't. Is there part of the book of Esther that is not in your Bible?
Speaker 3:Correct Ten chapters.
Speaker 5:That's the problem, because where I was getting, I was talking about Esther puts, you know, rips her clothes.
Speaker 3:It's an addition to the book of Esther.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I don't know where the history is of that I don't know either, because what I was looking at was esther, chapter 14, verse 2, and I found that it's only in the book of the in the catholic bible david would know all about david david yeah, yeah, the the, the one in the protestant bible.
Speaker 4:Uh, it is. Does not have the additions to esther yeah um, it ends in chapter 13,. I think I'm trying to read exactly how many chapters are there? Well yeah, there are additions to Esther that are found, and it could well be these have an ancient history. I don't know.
Speaker 5:Yeah, Okay. Well, we've only got 15 seconds left. So who's in charge next week? I am Okay's in charge next week. I am Okay. Stuart is on next week. Folks, thank you for listening to us here in the Shoe of Faith. Keep us in your prayers, you know, because every single week you are going to be in ours.