A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
March 30, 2025 Many Nations Under God
What does religious faith have to say about immigration, borders, and national identity?
Our panel tackles one of today's most polarizing moral questions with nuance and compassion, moving beyond typical political talking points to explore deeper ethical principles.
At the heart of our conversation is the theological concept of "Ordo Amoris" or the "Order of Love" – a principle suggesting our moral obligations naturally flow outward from self to family, community, nation, and beyond. Far from limiting our care for strangers, research suggests those who understand this ordering of charity are actually more generous to those in the outermost circles. As Rabbi Stuart explains through the concept of "concentric circles," we're naturally wired to prioritize those closest to us while still extending compassion outward.
The discussion takes fascinating turns as we explore what makes America unique – a place where, unlike most nations, anyone can truly become "American" by embracing certain ideals rather than being born into a specific ethnicity. We bring diverse perspectives, including personal immigrant experiences that illuminate the practical realities often missing from abstract policy debates.
When does a moral obligation to welcome the stranger encounter legitimate practical limitations? How do we balance compassion with responsibility? And what constitutes healthy patriotism versus blind nationalism?
These questions reveal how faith traditions can provide unique frameworks for addressing complex moral challenges that transcend typical partisan divisions.
Join us for this thought-provoking exploration of immigration ethics through multiple religious lenses. Whether you're seeking moral clarity on border policy or simply interested in how faith traditions approach contemporary ethical dilemmas, this episode offers refreshing insight without easy answers.
there's a man with a gun over there telling me I got to beware.
Speaker 2:I think it's time we stop children. What's that sound? Everybody look what's going down.
Speaker 1:I really like this song.
Speaker 2:This is one of my favorite songs.
Speaker 5:This is one of my favorite songs much resistance from behind every time we stop. Hey, what's that sound? Everybody, look what's going down. Millennial and rabbi discuss theology, philosophy and morality, ethics anything of interest in religion. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, hey, we'd love to hear from you. Please email, email us at ashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom. That's ashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard. Our priest is Father Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St Cyril of Alexandria in the 10,000 block of Westheimer. Hello, our professor is David Capes, baptist minister and director of academic programming for the Lanier Theological Library.
Speaker 1:Well done, Stuart.
Speaker 5:I try my best. Rudy Kong is our millennial. He's a systems engineer and has his master's degree in theology from the University of St Thomas.
Speaker 6:Howdy, howdy.
Speaker 5:I am Rabbi Stuart Federo, congregation Sha'ar Shalom, a Rabbi Emeritus from there in the Clear Lake area of Houston, texas, and Miranda is our board operator, and Miranda helps us sound wonderful.
Speaker 3:I want to know why it is that I am retired pastor and you are Rabbi Emeritus. What's the difference? That's a legitimate question, I don't know. Are are rabbi emeritus. What's the difference? That's a legitimate question. I don't know.
Speaker 5:Are you given the emeritus status? I don't know what that is. It's basically an honorary title that says thank you for your service. That's all that I know of.
Speaker 6:Mario, as a prestigious attendee and member of St Cyril of Alexandria, I grant you the emeritus title for the rest of your life.
Speaker 5:Well learned and well deserved. How long?
Speaker 3:were you there 26 years?
Speaker 5:I was at my synagogue for 28. So two more years maybe you would have gotten. You just quit too early, Mario sorry. Quit a little bit too early. You are the show director. Sorry, it went a little bit too early.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 5:You are the show director, Mario.
Speaker 3:I am the show director today and we are going to be talking. I sent these two guys, these three guys actually, an article and the article is entitled let me pull it up here. Is entitled let me pull it up here. Is entitled A.
Speaker 5:Catholic.
Speaker 3:Defense of Enforcing Immigration Laws. Now, the reason I found it interesting, an interesting discussion and this is what I'd like to be able to focus our attention on is, first of all, why does it, why does the enforcement of immigration laws need to be defended? And I think that it's because there is a disagreement not only with how shall I say? Not only in the nation, you know, between Democrats and Republicans and stuff like that but there is also a disagreement internally in the Catholic Church, because the Catholic Church, in and of itself, has the affirmative duty, or states, the duty of nations that are well off, to receive immigrants and, at the same time, because of our common humanity.
Speaker 5:Well, but see, that to me is the real reason why any religion would have something to say about immigration, because it's a moral issue, that's right, and that's why I wanted us to discuss it from the perspective.
Speaker 3:Right, and that's why I wanted us to discuss it from the perspective. Pope Francis wrote a letter to the American bishops criticizing a little bit about Pope. I mean, what's his name? Vance, vice President Vance, because Vice President Vance had used a theological concept that we're going to talk about called the Ordo Amoris or the Order of Love, or the Order of Charity, to defend some of the immigration policies of the Trump administration, and so what I would like to focus our attention on is not necessarily a political discussion. That's not the issue.
Speaker 8:It's a moral issue.
Speaker 3:There are times that you can discuss that politically, but the three of us belong to I mean the four of us belong to religions that have moral statements about the issues of the day. I would hope so. Using this article as a jumping off point, I wanted to get people's you guys' opinions and have a discussion about not only the order of love what's called you will hear me refer to it as the Ordo Amoris.
Speaker 5:What did Vance say about that, though? How was he misusing it?
Speaker 3:I don't think he misused it. Oh okay, I don't think he misused it. So the Pope's letter was, uh, supporting it no, no, the pope's letter was saying that the um ordo amoris, as interpreted by vance, was negating the uh. In other words, it was too far in one direction. Okay, and the pope was saying you need to welcome the immigrants. Yes, the Ordo Amoris is correct, but at the same time, you're relying a little too much on that and you need to welcome the immigrants. David, were you about to say something?
Speaker 3:It seems to me, as I read the article that this point of contention could be, if you had.
Speaker 1:Pope John Paul II in a room and if you had Pope Francis in a room they would disagree, I wouldn't doubt it evidence that he was drawing on to sort of, in a way, support the idea, some of the ideas, of what the morality of limiting part of it is. Is there a morality in limiting immigration?
Speaker 1:Is there a morality in limiting a kind of immigration that includes people who are in fact breaking the laws of the host nation, which seems to me to be contrary to the Ordo Amoris, as does the idea that we could possibly take in anyone and everyone at the same sort of pace and, yes, welcome them. And yet sometimes it might be the most loving and the right thing to do is to send them to another nation or say we cannot accept anymore at this particular time we just don't have the infrastructure. It seems to me that the catechism does put some limits on the idea we we do as a welcoming nation, a host nation, to the best of our ability, and if it gets beyond our ability, and we aren't able, then there are—it is just and right within the nation to call for certain limits.
Speaker 3:Okay, stuart, do you want to talk a little bit more about that? You had some interesting comments about the order of moras.
Speaker 5:That's Latin and ours is more.
Speaker 5:Hebrew. At any rate, when I read the article, it reminded me of a kind of concept, I guess, in Judaism, which is the same basic thing. The order of love means that there is a certain emphasis on the closer a person is Like the people around you. Your own nation takes precedence over the people who are not in your nation. That is what I would call concentric circles. That is what I would call concentric circles, and there's a concept, badly translated as charity, which is basically the idea of concentric circles.
Speaker 5:I'm sure you all have heard the saying charity starts at home. Well, home becomes the inner circle and the innermost circle is yourself, and that may sound greedy and selfish, but bear with me. The next circle outside yourself becomes your immediate family. The next circle outside of that becomes aunts, uncles, cousins. The next circle outside of that becomes, you know, like your neighborhood, then your city, then your county, then your state, then your nation. Okay, in other words, your obligation to help people starts from the inner circles and moves to the outer circle, and I really wish I could remember the article. I wish I could remember who wrote the article. I wish I could remember the study that they cited.
Speaker 3:I think you should say I think I should, I think I'd like to remember uh, yes, I would like to remember just this period.
Speaker 5:Okay, thank you. But what it said is that for those groups who have this concept of order of love, for those who have this concept of you start with the inner circles first, you are far more likely to help people in the outer circles than those who believe that you should just help everybody and this generic let's all help each other and hold hands and sing Kumbaya and love each other. Because the people who are trained from the beginning, from birth, like we treat in religion and we teach our religion, they're taught to give to the people around them. They're taught to give to the circles as they get larger, so they learn to give. The people who have this idea according to the study, people have this idea of everybody should be helped. Let's help everybody and there's no order, there's no sense of from the inner circle to the outer circle are less likely to give to anybody.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you mentioned, and I agree with you, that it really is the difference between conservatives and progressives.
Speaker 5:And progressives feel that it's not up to them, it's up to the government to help. That's right. And even though they think, well, we should help everybody and let's open the borders and be nice to everybody, they tend not to give to anybody and they tend to dump the responsibility not on themselves, god forbid but rather on the government. And it's a radical difference in in. In my opinion, it's a radical difference between progressives and conservatives, because conservatives want less government and they feel the obligation on themselves to do things like oh, I don't know charity yeah, rudy, you want to jump in?
Speaker 6:yeah, I just I I wanted to say say that the article really does try to do justice to, I would say, how truly divided Catholics are in America, a lot of the world really, and I don't know if it's all Mario, I mean normally Catholics we tend to vote 50-50, like 50% Republican, 50% Democrat. That's kind of how it's played out the last couple elections and it's quite a large vote and there's a lot of immigrants too that are coming over that are Catholic right vote, and there's a lot of immigrants too that are coming over that are catholic right. So I think that that vote is going to become um, more and more contested, if you will. And I think and of course it's, it's uh, it it's just kind of the politics of each individual, right.
Speaker 6:But I just I wanted to mention one thing and something that kind of struck me and it kind of has a lot to do with the rabble I was saying is I find that there's a real fundamental hypocrisy that we kind of live in, because we have a lot of people, especially on the left, that tend to argue that this is conquered land, that this land doesn't belong to us, that it was taken by the Europeans, that this land doesn't belong to us, that it was taken by the Europeans, and yet I find that it's these same people that are opening borders and inviting more people to come to land that they don't rightly own anyways. It's just something quite interesting. Now I know we have to kind of go to a break here in a little bit.
Speaker 5:About a minute.
Speaker 6:What I find, and kind of to the rabbi's point too, and something that Dr Case was leading to, is something Augustine was talking about, since one cannot do good to all, right, so this order of love becomes fundamentally more and more important, right, and so many people, we want world peace and we want to end hunger, and we want nobody to die and nobody to suffer, which is a great thing.
Speaker 5:And which is true, we don't.
Speaker 6:Yeah, yeah. But I think the exercise of these sort of guiding principles is what kind of gets us out of whack. Right, because it's how we apply these virtues, I would say right. That kind of really loses its notion. And there's a couple of other points too that I wanted to talk about patriotism. But maybe we can do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do want to talk about patriotism when we come back, because it's a very. I think patriotism is under fire in a lot of places and I think it's important for us to talk about a balanced notion of patriotism. But we shall do that when we come back. This is 1070 KNTH and you're listening to a show of faith here, and we will be right back.
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Speaker 5:Welcome back to Rocking out the high Colorado. Welcome back to A Show of Faith on AM 107, the Answer.
Speaker 3:You know I'd like to pursue this area that Rudy kind of stated, and I'll give all of us a chance to come in here. But I'd like to open the discussion by reading a paragraph on what American patriotism ought to be like, and so listen to this. I thought it was very, very well done. American patriotism, properly understood, has never been the reflexive support of my country, right or wrong, but instead has always been the reflective, self-critical posture of my country because it is dedicated to the right. This requires that we continually work to maintain and improve the justice of our country. Work to maintain and improve the justice of our country. Americans love America because it is their own and because it is good. Our ability to detach ourselves from America and decry its injustices only increases our attachment to it as a continuing project of justice for all attachment to it as a continuing project of justice for all.
Speaker 5:Wasn't there a saying a million years ago that seems to have fallen out of favor my country, right or wrong, but if wrong, let me work to make it right?
Speaker 3:That's basically what this is saying.
Speaker 5:It's supposed to be. Yeah, where did that go?
Speaker 3:I have no idea.
Speaker 6:Rudy, you want to make a comment, and then david, you know, I I find that that what we, what we define as a country, is and I think the argument that I was trying to make is is eroding or being eroded, in the same way that the significance of the family nucleus is being sort of attacked and eroded too, and I think a lot of work is being put to label patriotism, nationalism, proud of being an American.
Speaker 6:It seems like there used to be a time not too long ago, 50, 60, 70 years ago, where you could say, yeah, I'm proud to be an American.
Speaker 6:It seems like there used to be a time, not too long ago, 50, 60, 70 years ago, where you could say, yeah, I'm proud to be an American, and that was something to be sort of something that you could kind of boast about, right, like, yeah, you're from America, you know, and now you just don't really see that, or I don't hear it, right. I mean you hear about these European countries and France and English. I mean it seems like there's just sort of distaste, mostly for your own country, right, and I just I mean, I think there's a lot of people that truly are proud to be American, to say that this is my country, and especially immigrants that have come to this country and really worked hard to establish themselves, built their businesses, their family, sent them to school right. So there's great stories where this is possible, but I think, unfortunately, it's just being sort of flooded out by sort of this wave of this kind of neo-modern globalist citizen.
Speaker 3:It's also the this is something we haven't talked about a lot lately, but is critical race theory and critical theory in a sense, in the sense that it examines everything and it tends to look up the behind of everything that values that we value, and it's basically a Marxist idea of criticizing to tear down subversion.
Speaker 5:It's called subversion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, david, you want to jump in?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought it was fascinating. You know I'm a biblical theologian so I always think in terms of Bible first. I know that drives Mario crazy, but that's just sort of what.
Speaker 3:I do. Don't say that I'm against the Bible.
Speaker 1:I'm not, I'm just kidding, are you? Don't say that I'm against the Bible, I'm not, I'm just kidding, it's just a joke, are you? It's just like you know, talking about his love for sports. It's kind of a joke, but at any rate, I thought it was fascinating, and I've never thought about this before.
Speaker 1:As we think about locating the ideals of patriotism in the Bible, where do we find it? Well, the world was obviously very different back in the world of the Bible. But what the writer did here and I think others, maybe Augustine and Aquinas as well, talked about it in regard to the Fourth Commandment and I know we number the commandments differently, but the one in particular honor your father and mother, that your days may be long in the land, et cetera. And, stuart, I'd be interested to what you thought about what the article said, because it takes the idea of patriotism and love of country and sort of locates it squarely there, because people are a human being, every human being finds their identity in their family and then every human being finds their identity ultimately in the nation to which their family belongs, and so it locates the idea of patriotism within that.
Speaker 1:I thought that was fascinating. I never really thought about it, those in that term before that. The honoring of father and mother is similar to, and really kind of a component, part of honoring ancestors generally who are members of and part of the state not state, but part of the nation.
Speaker 5:Yeah steward, you want to, just you got david, when I read that in the article I understood what it was saying because it goes to the idea of the inner circle to the outer circle. But I still, I still thought it was a bit of a stretch, honoring your parents to close feelings of.
Speaker 3:But what if you just say honoring your family and that reminds me. But remember the word patriotism comes over patris Right. Which means father.
Speaker 5:And I understand it. But going from that commandment to the idea, I don't, I just I just thought it was a bit of a stretch that's all it is, but I'll. But I will tell you something that it reminded me of. There is a book, uh-oh well, we got it.
Speaker 3:No, no, let's go to the break. Hold on to that. Yeah, this is 1070 kndh. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 10:And I pray that someday he'll love me and together we will see how lovely heaven will be, and together we will see how lovely heaven will be Welcome back to A Show of Faith.
Speaker 5:On AM 1070 the Answer.
Speaker 3:Amen.
Speaker 5:Amen.
Speaker 3:By the way, I just want to give a shout out to some really good people, hi, good people that I met at Hilltop Lakes, texas, hilltop Lakes, texas. I celebrated Mass there this last Sunday, sunday, a week ago, and it's what did you celebrate? Mass.
Speaker 5:Oh, the Eucharist, you know, yes, that thing, yeah, hilltop Lakesist you know?
Speaker 3:Yes, that thing, yeah, hilltop Lakes, it's different. I found out there's a difference between Hilltop Texas and Hilltop Lakes, texas.
Speaker 5:I hope you didn't go to the wrong one.
Speaker 3:No, I almost did. No, no One is south of San Antonio and the other one is about two hours northwest of here. It was very, very enjoyable. So any of you who are out there, Hilltop Lakes, hello, Hello hello. So we were talking, you were talking about you were about to mention a book.
Speaker 5:There's a book it's 1963, I think it's called Cat's Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut, and it's a brilliant book and I would urge anybody who, well frankly, doesn't understand or appreciate religion in general to read the book. But in the book it's talking about what Kurt Vonnegut considered to be fake relations, fake closeness, and his example, which I don't find fake at all and I think speaks to the topic, mario is, let's say, you're on vacation in Italy, okay, and while you're there you happen to run across a family and you find out they're also from Houston. There's an automatic feeling of closeness and relationship with them, even though they're complete strangers. But you have this one thing that may or may not be considered significant as the world goes, but it doesn't matter because you feel a closeness to them. That's the national.
Speaker 3:That also goes, I think, the to the latin phrase here is an interesting uh explanation about the term in the article. The term nation designates a community based in a given territory and distinguished from other nations by its culture. Catholic social teaching holds that the family and the nation are both natural societies, not the product of mere convention.
Speaker 5:Exactly, and you wouldn't feel that way, meeting somebody in the middle of nowhere from your hometown, if that weren't true.
Speaker 3:That is correct, Rudy. You want to jump in? You know what?
Speaker 6:I'm thinking so it says natural right. So this is something that is essentially ordered within us, right? So we're kind it sort of God-given right, and I think it's important to realize these things that when we talk about our nation, our culture, so much is sort of trying to be, I don't want to say erased, but sort of rewritten into the state, right. What's the state's culture, and what I mean by the state is this sort of government entity, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because the state is very different from the nation.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it took me a while to understand their comment in that article, but that's true. Yeah, the state is not the nation.
Speaker 3:No, the nation. How would you understand the difference, Rudy, between the state and the nation?
Speaker 6:Well, I think it has exactly to do with what you just mentioned. The culture, right, it's the local and domestic culture as you go from the interior or from the sort of immediate proximity of relationships, and then as you extend it out, right, so I would call it something like kind of the southern twang that you can find in the southern states, right, and this kind of southern sort of southern hospitality that so many people talk about. There's something cultural about being neighborly. There's something cultural about how you treat your neighbor, the person in need, and it relates to how you treat your immediate family and then kind of expand that out. So, when you push that responsibility, go ahead, dr Fitch.
Speaker 1:Oh, sorry, no, I'm just saying I didn't take away that. I would still think that's part of the nation, that these cultural pieces are part of the nation, that the state actually ends up becoming the kind of official governmental structures that we all agree on, rightly or wrongly, and those are the things that seek to provide order, sometimes coercively in some places and other times more as a voluntary idea. So the idea of nation I mean would extend. I mean when you, when you go to a certain place, let's say another country, and you live there for a long time, as soon as you find somebody who speaks the same language you do, there's already an affinity as well. Going back to Stuart's example, we are a nation defined to some degree by language and by this culture.
Speaker 5:Culture, language and land.
Speaker 1:And land. Yeah, those are really kind of key areas. So I'm not really sure how, Rudy, you were talking about the cultural piece, but I would still think that's part of the nation.
Speaker 6:But you know, I think that's what I was trying to say is the nation itself is sort of the reflection of the culture, if you will, and then the state is the sort of the amalgamation of these kind of cultural norms that we've put together.
Speaker 5:So it's all okay. See, Rudy, I would say the state is the government and the various governments that run the nation. So the county, the city, the county, the state, you know, DC. That to me, when I think of the word state, go ahead.
Speaker 6:Well, at the end, they reflect the values of the culture?
Speaker 5:right, well, they're supposed to. But, rudy, they're supposed to reflect the values, and you know, the values of the people in the nation. But states don't always do that, dictatorships don't. Okay, okay, right. So to me the nation is the people, the land, the culture, but the state is the government, and it may or may not have anything whatsoever to do with the nation.
Speaker 3:I find it. Let me just make a side comment, Because I am Hispanic, I'm Cuban and I grew up partly in Cuba and partly here, and also because, since I am fluent in Spanish and a lot of my ministry most of my ministry these days is done in Spanish, and I find it interesting that when I like for example today, I celebrated Mass at 2 o'clock in the afternoon at San Rafael Catholic Church St Raphael's Catholic Church here in West Houston, at two o'clock, and the congregation was 100, is within Spanish, but it was all 100% Hispanic and outside they were selling Hispanic fruit and everybody was talking Spanish. And it was a really interesting experience of feeling like I was in another nation, even though I'm not, because it was kind of like cultural groups existing within the same nation, but having to respect each other. And I'm sure, for example, uh, that you would be able to speak rab Rabbi about a Jewish section of a city.
Speaker 5:Absolutely. You also have citywide celebrations. You have, don't you have, a Greek Greek festival Festival, that's the word. There's a Greek festival. I think there's an Italian festival, yeah, okay, but they're all part of the nation.
Speaker 3:Yes, but I think it's interesting here and this might get us to a different discussion here because I think that is something that is specific to the United States Meaning. Let me introduce it this way I can move to Italy, but I will never be Italian.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 3:I can move to Spain, but I'll be never Spaniard. I can move to Greece, but I'll never be Greek. But you can move to the United States.
Speaker 5:And become American, become a US citizen.
Speaker 3:And I think it's because that's what makes it hard being a member of this nation, because we are. There are subcultures here that are identities, almost sub-nations, if we can call them that, but we all are Americans, because America is more of an idea, a sense of belonging to an experiment.
Speaker 5:And you don't see that as basic elemental Americanism?
Speaker 3:Yes, and melting pot, and from the many one, I'm saying that belonging to an America does not necessarily mean being in Hispanic culture or Cuban culture or Mexican culture or Jewish culture. I think, as long as we share the same commitment to the ideals that binds us together, what binds us together?
Speaker 5:are ideals Right democracy.
Speaker 3:What's interesting is that it's not the land itself that binds us together. That's maybe part of it, but it's the ideals of who we are as an identity. So it's a supranational identity. So, anyway, we'll come back. I'd like to just talk about that a little bit when we come back, especially between Rudy and then, of course, david. You and Stuart were born here, and so it's interesting to talk about that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, mario you're a furriner.
Speaker 3:I'm a furriner, so this is 1070 KMTH. I'm going to be right back.
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Speaker 4:Before when I get off work I would grab a couple of drinks with my friends and the day I got my DWI I was driving around from bar to bar. I was going too fast and hit a U-Haul truck. The DWI cost me around $12,000 with lawyer and court costs. I had a smart start device in my vehicle. I needed a blow into it every time to start my car. I was embarrassed so I would duck down or hide so no one would see me.
Speaker 10:Drunk driving Isn't worth it. Drive sober. No regrets A message from tech stock.
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Speaker 3:The Answer here we come.
Speaker 2:Walking down the street All the monkeys.
Speaker 5:Get the funniest looks from everyone we meet.
Speaker 9:Hey, hey, hey, we're the monkeys.
Speaker 5:The keeps say we're monkeying around, but we're too busy singing to put anybody down, you're where we want to go. Welcome back to A Show of Faith on I'm 1070.
Speaker 3:This kind of music really dates us, doesn't it?
Speaker 5:Well, nobody else will date us.
Speaker 11:Oh, that was good, thank you.
Speaker 3:Rudy, what would you say? And then I'd like to get David and Stuart in here. What would you say in terms of your experience of belonging? See, I feel very much an American, but at the same time there's part of me that is still somewhat Cuban. Yeah, Go ahead. What was your reflection?
Speaker 6:behind that. You know, what's interesting is that I was talking to my wife and I said to her I miss Texas, I miss it, I miss. And she's like okay, what do you miss? And I was like I mean it's hard to kind of Obviously my family's there, what do you miss? And I was like I mean it's hard to to kind of obviously my family's there. But you know, and I said something cheeky, I said I missed the highways and the barbecue.
Speaker 5:You miss the highways, you're out of your mind.
Speaker 6:Trust me when you spend 45 minutes on traffic just to go half a block because it's so gridlocked here because of terrible urbanization. But anyways, my point is that I miss it and of course part of it is my mom's there, my brother's there, my niece is there, my sister is there, I have other family members there. I mean I miss simple things like going to HEB Right, going to the Lifetime Fitness, going to Terry Hershey Polk. I mean, when you start looking at whether you I mean I would call it the nation offers right and organized by the state, let's say right, because we have public parks, we have public roadways, unless you're driving down the Beltway, then you're going to pay probably like 15 bucks to go down there, but anyways it's, but everything about it that puts it together, the people. But do you feel American?
Speaker 3:See, I do. I know that there is a little. Every time the national anthem is played and I see the American flag, and especially when I've had the opportunity to stand with many hundreds of people and sing the national anthem, I really get a rush, I cry, yeah, I do I do, I would say I feel American because I believe in America.
Speaker 6:Do you know what I?
Speaker 2:mean yes.
Speaker 6:I believe and I participate, I vote, I pay my taxes, I have a home, and so I feel like I've participated in this quote unquote American dream. Now I'm back in Guatemala, so I I feel like I mean, this is my home country too, right, but but heck, a lot of people don't even think I'm from this country when they look at me. I don't even look a lot of mine, you know. So they don't even. So I really feel like in the United States, what you were saying you could look like anybody in anything and you could be American.
Speaker 5:It doesn't matter Melting pot.
Speaker 3:But see, that's what I love.
Speaker 1:You're too tall to be Guatemalan, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5:Better nutrition.
Speaker 3:But it is that whole notion what that paragraph said. Americans love America because it is their own and because it is good. Our ability to detach ourselves from america and decry its injustices only increases our attachment to its continuing project of justice for all and because we are able to do that without fear of retribution by the government supposedly david, take off on this a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I appreciate it and I resonate with a lot of things you're saying. I had to think about that statement a little bit that you read earlier about whether it's right for today, but I think it is. I think it's right for today because we can be very proud of our country For those of us who've had the opportunity and the benefits of traveling you realize how wonderful this place truly is.
Speaker 1:It's not to say that there aren't other beautiful places in the world. There aren't other places where there's a good standard of living, because there are places where there's a good standard of living because there are. But there's just something very unique about this project, this idea of this American dream. That is what's attracting so many millions of people to our shores.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you don't see people clamoring to get into Russia or to Nicaragua or Cuba.
Speaker 5:Or Myanmar, right? What's his name? The presidential candidate who went there on his honeymoon to Russia?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I can't think of his name, bernie.
Speaker 5:Sanders, Sanders, right, right, or what's her name? Who just left for you know, because Trump got elected, moved out of the country. I can't think of her name Rosie O'Donnell. Rosie Rosie O'Donnell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, went to Ireland yeah.
Speaker 5:Ireland, where it's yeah well.
Speaker 1:So I mean, you know, it's just an amazing country and we can be proud and we can fight for justice. We can speak out against things that we think are unjust. We can agree to disagree right about things, hopefully without becoming too disagreeable.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:But that's what I.
Speaker 6:Can I add Sure, go ahead. Can I add one more thing that I truly miss to Nicaragua when I travel around is that when something happens, an accident, I get pulled over, maybe I get a speeding ticket and, look, I've been to certain places where it's dangerous. Okay, but truly in the United States I feel like the police and the forces there are truly there to kind of help the citizens. I'm not saying everybody's perfect.
Speaker 6:I'm not saying everybody is, but I don't feel like they're going to try to extort me or try to kidnap me or try to do something. So it's just, it's things that people don't understand.
Speaker 3:It really is, because let me tell you just a quick story my mom, may she rest in peace.
Speaker 5:I remember your mother.
Speaker 3:My mom when she came to the United States from Cuba, because we came as exiles from communism in 1960, exiles from communism in 1960 and my mom, who was probably the most how should I say scrupulous person, she just she didn't want to commit any sin. She just everything was the best way she could do it. And she said, mario, I have to confess I did not know that bribery was wrong.
Speaker 5:It was a way of life.
Speaker 3:Because it's interesting For my mom. She said whenever you would get pulled over by a police officer, it was kind of expected that you would give them a tip and say thank you for letting me know. And in giving them a tip they would let you go. They wouldn't give them a tip and say thank you for letting me know, and in giving them a tip they would let you go. They wouldn't give you a ticket. And she said I was. I grew up with that that that was normal. You know I'm stopping you and giving you this tip, but it's actually and when you go to any government office you give a tip and you get faster service. It's kind of like a tip, but given before the service.
Speaker 5:Right right.
Speaker 3:It's kind of like your server comes over to your table and you give him a tip and you say put me first.
Speaker 1:Right, yes, hand off to the maitre d' there's so much corruption around the world that deals in things like that. So many of the African countries, for example, we have trouble giving. You know we're trying to give a certain number of books to a library there. Let's say and you know the books will stay there in customs until someone is bribed to get those books on a truck. You know, they know that they've come from America.
Speaker 5:Let's say they know they're going to a library, Right and all Americans are rich.
Speaker 1:So All Americans in this library must be friends of ours, but they must be rich too, though they're very poor. But so much of the world operates that way, and Rudy's right, I mean, it's not a safe place to be pulled over by policemen in a lot of countries like that.
Speaker 5:You know I've got to react, though, mario, to something you asked, david and I, about feeling American because we were born here.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:I kind of got to remind you that I'm a Jew and going all the way back to Exodus, all the way back to the Bible, where a new pharaoh rose over Egypt who did not know Joseph. And what did he say to the Egyptians? He said, basically, the Jews, they're not real Egyptians, we can't trust them. They'll join our enemies, and that has been a recurring theme among anti-Semites, jew haters, ever since. And there have been things that happened in my life growing up in springfield, missouri, just things that have happened. But yes, I'm an american and I can't imagine living anywhere else. I have no, I've lost my wanderlust. I have no intention of leaving for anything. Okay, but yeah, there are times where I have been made to feel I'm not a real American.
Speaker 5:I'm going to join our enemies.
Speaker 3:And it's the same thing. I think if you were African American you would feel somewhat like that.
Speaker 5:I'm sure Any minority in any ethnic group.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it feels somewhat like that, but at the same time, that's what I love about it is that it's a country that you have the opportunity to continue to fight for the integration.
Speaker 5:And because there are laws that protect you, you can appeal to the laws of the state. That's correct.
Speaker 3:That's correct. Yeah, any closing comments. Gentlemen, david, any closing comments?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just think it's a great article because it helped solidify some things for me about how and why Catholic folk in particular are a bit, you know, on different sides of the issue of immigration.
Speaker 3:Stuart.
Speaker 5:No, I basically just added my last two cents worth, rudy.
Speaker 6:God bless America.
Speaker 5:About 30 seconds.
Speaker 6:Always, always.
Speaker 3:God bless America. I love that song. It's amazing to me. Beautiful for spacious gate. May God and crown our good.
Speaker 5:With brotherhood from sea to shining sea. And if you want to know the most beautiful verse of the Star Spangled Banner, it's the fourth one. Read it. Read the fourth verse.
Speaker 3:Read the fourth verse it's phenomenal. Okay, who is show director next week?
Speaker 5:I think it's Rudy, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 3:Okay, whoever it is, we'll talk about it.
Speaker 6:I'm not sure I'll take it.
Speaker 3:Okay, rudy, rudy, rudy.
Speaker 1:I think it's you, you, you. This is 1070 KMTH.
Speaker 3:You've been listening to a show of faith. Keep us in your prayers because you are going to be in ours.
Speaker 11:Find us at am1070theanswercom. Download our apps. Stream us 24-7. Knth and K277DE-FM Houston.