A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
April 20, 2025 Sacred Melodies: How Music Shapes Religious Experience
Music bypasses our intellectual defenses and speaks directly to our hearts in ways that sermons and teachings rarely achieve. This profound spiritual reality was the focus of our latest conversation, where our interfaith panel explored why sacred songs become so deeply embedded in our religious experiences.
Rabbi Stuart opened with a revealing observation from his decades of service: congregants leave services humming tunes while forgetting sermon content entirely. This sparked a fascinating exploration of how melodies create attachments that make worship spaces feel like home. When familiar songs are missing, we become "strangers in our own sanctuary" – a feeling that transcends denominational boundaries.
The Passover song "Dayenu" demonstrates how music teaches theology through repetition and emotional connection. Each verse recounts another miracle during the Exodus, pausing to acknowledge that "it would have been enough for us" – cultivating a profound sense of gratitude that mere words couldn't achieve. Father Mario reflected on how "Oh Holy Night" carries a revolutionary message about human dignity through its lyric "till He appeared and the soul felt its worth," highlighting humanity's transformation from viewing life as cheap to recognizing its inherent value.
Our exploration extended to both ancient and modern expressions of faith through song. David compared Charles Wesley's 1739 Easter hymn with the contemporary "Easter Song" from 1974, demonstrating how sacred music evolves while preserving essential theological content. Rudy offered fascinating neuroscientific insights, explaining how music simultaneously activates regions of our brains responsible for language, emotional processing, and memory – creating connections that transcend time and unite believers across generations.
Whether it's ancient chants or modern worship songs, sacred music doesn't just express faith – it creates it, connecting us to something infinitely larger than ourselves. What songs have shaped your spiritual journey? We'd love to hear from you at ashowoffaith1070@gmail.com.
There's something happening here. What? It is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there Telling me I've got to beware. I think it's time we stop Children, what's that sound? Everybody, look what's going down. Stop, everybody's wrong. Young people speak in their minds. So much resistance. Yep, wait a minute Coming up here. We go Almost here. Give it a second Coming up here.
Speaker 4:We go almost here. Give it a second. Welcome to A Show of Faith on AM 1070, the Answer Professor, priest, millennium rabbi discussing theology, philosophy, morality, ethics and anything else of interest in religion. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, hey, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at ashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom. Ashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard. Our priest is Fr Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St Cyril of Alexandria, the 10,000 block of Westheimer. Hello, our professor is David Capes, Baptist minister and director of academic programming for the Lanier Theological Library.
Speaker 2:Stuart, you are brilliant.
Speaker 4:I try to be. Rudy Kong is our millennial. He's an assistant engineer and has his master's degree in theology from the University of St Thomas.
Speaker 5:Howdy, howdy, Howdy howdy, howdy, howdy.
Speaker 4:I am Rabbi Stuart Federo, retired rabbi of Congregation Shahar Shalom, the Clear Lake area of Houston, texas. Miranda is our board operator and together Miranda helps us sound fantastic. So welcome to A Show of Faith on AM 1070,. The Answer All right, I am the show director.
Speaker 2:So, stuart, I hope you had a happy right. I am the show director, so yes, I did, thank you.
Speaker 4:I hope you all had a happy and blessed Easter.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much.
Speaker 4:Okay, so tonight I am show director and, uh, let me, let me tell you a couple of stories real quick. I was ordained in 82. My first pulpit was in Greenville, mississippi, and about that time the movement of Judaism that I am in I guess ordained from is the Reform Movement, and they came out with a new prayer book book. And you'd think the world had a I don't know what opened up and swallowed people or something like that. But the reaction to the new prayer book was slow and there was a group of people who wanted just let's switch over the new one. It'll be the prayer book of the future and we should use it. And, by the way, this was in 82, so that's 43 years ago. Oh my God, all right. And what I told them is that once a month we were going to use the old prayer book because I did not want to make people strangers in their own sanctuary. Why do I tell you that Most of the Jewish services are sung, most of the prayers are sung, and for any one prayer, any one paragraph, there's probably a billion different tunes that one could use for each one of the prayers which you'd probably figure out over the last 2,000 years that it would develop that way.
Speaker 4:But why do we have such an attachment to music? Why is it that a song will go straight to the soul and the heart? At the end of every high holiday season, before I retired, I would always, you know, thank the cantor that we would bring in. And I would say to the congregation, when the members of the congregation are leaving the sanctuary, they are humming the tunes the cantor sang and cannot remember a word that the rabbi said in a sermon. And it's true. Sermons go to our mind. The music of the service goes to our hearts and soul and we form attachments and when we have services we don't feel like we've been to the service, unless we hear the songs that make the service the service. It would be my analogy it would be like going to a major league baseball game and not having the star-spangled banner begin the game. You'd think that there was something missing, like you weren't at a real baseball game. Because singing the star-spangled banner, no matter what team you're there to root for, unifies the people and makes it the American pastime. And if you don't have that, you feel something lacking, because music is so vitally important and the music goes straight to the heart and soul. And if you ask somebody what does the Star Spangled Banner say, they might even have to recite the words before they could tell you the meaning of the words. It's not going to come rolling off their tongue what it's about.
Speaker 4:And so a few weeks, maybe a few months ago, when it was my turn to be show director, I asked everybody to bring the text of a song that was secular, that we found meaningful and inspirational or somewhat religious in some way, shape or form. But tonight I asked everybody to bring songs that were explicit to a holiday season, a holy day season, whatever the holiday was, although I was thinking more, you know Passover and Easter. So tonight I asked everybody to bring the text. We're not going to sing. I'm sparing all of our listeners my singing voice. You're welcome. Yay, David, I knew I could rely on you to say yay, all right. So all right, I guess I will start and the— Stuart, yes.
Speaker 2:Stuart, yeah, let me interrupt to say I think that's a brilliant opening. Well thank you, because there's so many—there's so much truth to it. There have been theologians of the past, in Christian Protestantism in particular, that have said you know, I don't really need to write the theology, just let me write the hymns. Right, and the hymns are the things that really do implant and imprint on our theology. But, david, why? Why does?
Speaker 4:it imprint.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, that's the way God made us. Let me just say that at the beginning.
Speaker 4:Probably right.
Speaker 2:God made us in such a way that music imprints on us in a certain way.
Speaker 2:And I think it's very meaningful. A lot of people know, for example, the song Amazing Grace. They can sing it, they've heard it in movies, that kind of thing. Everybody knows the meaning of that. I can't tell you who wrote it, honestly, but there are a lot of sermons about grace, but there's one key song about it and I just think that music has this character to it that it does that to us, and so I think it's a great beginning and I'm looking forward to learning about Passover through the songs, because I've heard your Passover sermon and, honestly, I couldn't remember any of it.
Speaker 4:Thank you, david. You proved my point. Smart Alec, there we go. All right, all right, so okay. So I'll lead off with a song. This is just real quick.
Speaker 4:Um, in the year 70, the temple was destroyed. The second temple was destroyed and everything for passover while the temple stood was about the temple. So the temple was destroyed in 70. Um, they had to develop a home-centered service that became the Passover Seder, and with all the symbols and not just the symbols but the songs, and over time, like 2,000 years, give or take whatever it is from 70, people would add things, they would subtract things, they would change this, they'd add to that, the text would grow, the text would shrink, but it was malleable. I don't know what else to call it.
Speaker 4:And what I'm going to be reading part of is one of the songs that if you went to a Passover Seder and they did not sing it, you'd feel really something's missing. Like, was this really a Seder? Was this really? Because it becomes so integral. It's called Dayenu, which means, oh, I know so integral. It's called Dayenu, which means, oh, I know that one. Hey, you know, it's probably I promise not to sing, but it's probably somewhere on YouTube but it's called Dayenu, which means it would have been enough for us. And the chorus is repeating the word Dayenu, da-dayenu, da-dayenu, da-dayenu, dayenu dayenu, and it means it would have been enough for us. It would have been enough for us. It would have been enough for us.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but the verses basically tell the story in song form of the exodus from Egypt. So God has bestowed many favors upon us. Had God brought us out of Egypt and not executed judgment against the Egyptians, it would have been enough for us. And then you sing Dayenu. And then you take the last part of that sentence, repeat it and add the next one had God executed judgments against the Egyptians, but not against their gods, it would have been enough. Dayenu. And then you sing Dayenu. Had God executed judgments against their gods and not put to death their firstborn, it would have been enough. And then you sing Dayenu. And then had God put to death their firstborn and not given us their riches, it would have been enough. Dayenu.
Speaker 4:And every one of these lines is based on a verse in the biblical text of Exodus that tells the story of coming out of slavery in Egypt. So I am going to read the last paragraph, which goes over every line of the song? Okay. How much more so, then, should we be grateful to God for the numerous favors that were bestowed upon us? God brought us out of Egypt, punished the Egyptians, smote their gods, slew their firstborn, gave us their wealth, split the sea led for those who actually think about lyrics. If any one of those things had not happened, we might still be in slavery in Egypt. Because God, you know, smote the Egyptian gods okay, and brought us to the Nile okay. Split the Sea of Reeds or Red Sea mistranslation, but Sea of Reeds. Had God not split the Red Sea, then it brought us back to Egypt. We would have been back into slavery.
Speaker 4:So, every step of the way, and what is the purpose of that?
Speaker 4:You know, everything we do has a purpose, not only when you're doing it, but it also has a subtle effect on us, and I think it's to teach us to be very grateful for every little thing that happens in our lives, very grateful for every little thing that happens in our lives. That, when it happens, you know, we may take it for granted, we may ignore it, but especially for us old geezers I'm not talking about me, mind you Thank you when you look back and you see how every step leads brought you to where you are and how had one little thing changed or been different, you might not be sitting here, you might not be doing whatever you're doing, you may not be with your boyfriend or your girlfriend or your husband or your wife, you may not have had the children you've got, or whatever the children you've got or whatever. And a song like this that is so integral to the Seder that if you didn't sing it you'd feel like something was missing, becomes so important because it teaches that lesson.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a great word.
Speaker 4:Well, and there are other songs that do the same thing. You know, if it hadn't been for this or or uh, what's the one about swallowing a fly, where every little step um, I can't remember it, but it, but this is the song that we sing at the Seder. It's one of the many, many songs that we sing at the Seder, and I think it has an incredible lesson of gratitude that's very much missing in our present society. All right, we are about time to go to a break, though.
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Speaker 1:The answer. I'm going to go.
Speaker 6:And a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to be born.
Speaker 1:A time to die, a time to plant, a time to reap, a time to kill, a time to heal.
Speaker 6:A time to laugh, a time to heal, a time to laugh, a time to weep.
Speaker 4:Welcome back to A Show of Faith on AM 1070, the Answer. So we're talking about religious music and how it affects us, how it grabs a hold of us, how it touches us. And, Mario, you want to go next?
Speaker 7:Yeah, when Rabbi sent this out, god, I hate this. When Rabbi sent this out, he said songs that had meaning for holy days, right, and I didn't understand it.
Speaker 10:To be just no, no, that's fine my, my favorite holy day song.
Speaker 7:Um is a christmas song, which is um, oh, holy night, and the reason is just for the first um, the first um verse. I guess you would say Okay, because it says something that has given me a tremendous amount of insight in terms of how to interpret history, and so, anyway, the way that I'm going to do it, let me just recite the first verse verse of oh holy night.
Speaker 7:Okay, um, it goes like this okay, holy night lyrics. Okay, right here. Okay. Oh holy night, the stars are brightly shining. It is the night of our dear savior's birth. That's just the preamble. Here comes the next one. This is the verse that just gets me Long. Lay the world in sin and error, pining till he appeared and the soul felt its worth. A thrill of hope. The weary world rejoices, for yonder breaks a new and glorious morn Now, and then it goes, fall on your knees. Oh, hear the angels singing. Oh night divine. Every time I pull this damn thing, it starts ringing.
Speaker 4:It starts ringing.
Speaker 7:Anyway, here's my, my point. Oh, holy night. Um long listen to the words, long lay the world in sin and error pining. Now look at the word to pine Pine means to wither. Say that again To wither, you're pining. When somebody is pining for something, you're kind of like withering for something or longing for something.
Speaker 8:Longing okay.
Speaker 7:Yeah, the world in sin and error pining, because the history of humanity is a history of sin and error pining. The world was a weary world and it really is a weary world rejoices, because the ancient world was filled with violence and human sacrifice and all kinds of weird stuff. And so humanity now this is where you and I disagree. We were separated from god. We literally became separated from the, the, the, the duct that fed us the energy with which we are to live. Yeah, in other words, the channel the channel.
Speaker 7:Yes, we are connected to god's grace. And to the degree that we are disconnected I find it very interesting, because the word religion means to reconnect. Really, god means reconnect, and so when that connection is severed, you end up withering, you end up losing the very thing that gives your life any kind of sense of meaning, which is the connection with God. And so long lay the world in sin and error, pining. And then the next sentence is Till he appeared and the soul felt its worth. Now, just that sentence Till he appeared and the soul felt its worth. What does that mean? Are we talking about that? Before then, the soul did not feel its worth. And when you look at the history of humankind, humankind, human life, was cheap. It was cheap until we, you Jews and us Christians, started following that every human being is made in the image and likeness of God, a little lower than the angels, that's right. And so, till he appeared and the soul felt its worth for the first time. Well, it's a continuity of the Jewish Christian tradition, but the first time, especially in the Christian tradition, when you have the incarnation, the soul felt its worth, the fact that God had become a human and that the infinite worth of every human being was for the first time being felt, that were not thrown away, that a slave was not a slave, that a slave was the dignity of a human, of a son or daughter of god.
Speaker 7:And then the song continues saying a thrill of hope. The weary world rejoices, for yonder breaks, a new and glorious morn. I always imagine, when you are in a situation of hopelessness and you first see the glimmer of a rescue, how that chill comes over you, that you might be actually able to make it that thrill of hope. A weary world rejoices. The world before the message of the gospel, and the ancient world, and the Jews too. The whole thing was weary, we were tired, humanity had nowhere to go. It was a cyclical world. It was a world in which human beings were not valued. It was, I always reminder. Remember the, the tomb of a roman soldier that I've seen several times quoted, that the inscription on the tomb said I was, I am I. I did not exist. I did exist, I do not exist. Now I do not care. Wow, that is on a Roman tune.
Speaker 10:Hellenism.
Speaker 7:Yeah. And so you talk about the worthlessness of life, and so for me, that song is always a reminder of the worth of life, that the fact that that, that a weary world in which the soul was worth less, the soul felt its worth, and that, to me, is what we have been living on under since. The fact that everybody wants to be a victim. In the ancient world, if you were a victim, people would applaud, they would want to kill the victim. In the ancient world, if you were a victim, people would applaud, they would want to kill the victim. That's why you went to the circus for to watch the victims.
Speaker 7:But now, the reason why everybody identifies with victims is because the man on the cross and in the crucifixion scene. It's interesting because they all went out to see an execution. And what did they? The Bible says, says they all went away beating their breasts after the roman soldier said truly, this was an innocent man, so there was no rejoicing in getting the, the bad guy, getting executed. So that's my reflection. All right, we have to go to a break. 10, 70 kth. We'll be right back am 10, 70 the answer hi's Chuck Tiller.
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Speaker 6:The answer Johnny Angel, johnny Angel, johnny Angel, you're an angel to me. Johnny Angel, how I love you, how I tingle when he passes by. Every time he says hello, my heart begins to fly. Johnny Angel, how I want him. He's got something that I can't resist, but he doesn't even know that I exist. I'm in heaven. I get carried away. I dream of him and me and how it's gonna be. All the fellas call me up for a date, but I just sit and wait. I'd rather concentrate on Johnny Angel, cause I love him and I pray that someday he'll love me and together we will see how lovely heaven will be.
Speaker 4:And together we will see how lovely heaven will be Welcome back to A Show of Faith. I'm AM Ted Siver the Answer.
Speaker 7:I was going to just before we go on to either Rudy or David.
Speaker 4:David's turn.
Speaker 7:Okay, that song just means a lot to me, mainly because the more I see of humanity, the more I see how little even in the ancient world and in the present world, how little sometimes people hold human life in terms of its worth.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 7:And to me, the moment I hear the soul filter, its worth and then a thrill of hope. Those are the two parts that really get to me the soul filter, a thrill of hope. A weary world rejoices Because whenever I study ancient history I get this sense of tremendous weariness, of a cyclical nature of the cosmos. Right, and it just goes.
Speaker 4:Or history. History was circular.
Speaker 7:Yeah, and that's why we don't see too much in terms of histories, ancient histories, because it's kind of like asking somebody to sit in a bench and sit before a merry-go-round and ask them to write a history for the next hour of what happens on the merry-go-round.
Speaker 4:That's a good analogy.
Speaker 7:You know, people get on, people get off, People get on, people get off. It all goes round and round and that's it.
Speaker 4:And I don't think the world has changed that much in however many thousands of years. There are still segments of our society who look at life as cheap Yep Cheap. All right, all right, david, you are up.
Speaker 2:Hey, yeah, thanks. Listen, I've got two too, and both are Easter-related, because I thought that was sort of more the brief, but I really resonate with Father Mario's choice. I'm going to put Miranda on a task, if she doesn't mind. I'd like for her to find the song and I'd love to play it in the next segment. It's called the Easter Song by a group called the Second Chapter of Acts.
Speaker 4:That's the name of the group.
Speaker 2:That's the name of the group, the the name of the group. The second chapter of acts uh called the easter song and it's a very famous song. People will uh. It's easy to find on youtube, it's easy. So if she can conjure that up, I've got the words here and I can go through it, but it's a whole lot better to hear than sing it. It's only two minutes long and we wouldn't even have to hear the whole thing, but you get a sense of it. Okay, so I've got something old, something new. The something old is Christ, the Lord, is Risen Today. It's a song written back in 1793, excuse me, 1739, about Charles Wesley. Charles Wesley was the brother of John Wesley, who started the Methodist Church.
Speaker 2:And he was a great hymn writer and I just wanted to read the song and just made a few comments about it. Now, this is not the way the song you'd sing it. You'd sing it a little differently, but this is the poem on which it's based. Christ the Lord. I'm hearing some no that was me, father Mario, stop it, yep, stop it.
Speaker 4:Mario's on the air. Leave him alone, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, christ, the Lord is risen. Today, son of men and angels, say raise your joys and triumphs high. Sing ye, heavens and earth. Reply lives again. Our glorious king. Where, oh, death, death is now thy sting. Once he died our souls to save. Where thy victory, o grave Love, redeeming's work is done, fought the fight, the battle won. Death in vain forbids his rise. Christ has opened paradise. So are we now where Christ has led, following our exalted head, made like him, like him, we rise ours. The cross, the grave, the skies. Hail the Lord of earth and heaven. Praise to thee by both. Be given Thee we greet triumphant now. Hail the resurrection, thou, king of glory, soul of bliss, everlasting life. Is this Thee to know thy power to prove Thus to sing and thus to love.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the poem on which the hymn is, is, and it's a great hymn setting. People who have been a part of this um would know it. It's, it's a hymn setting called the christmas excuse me, the easter hymn, I should say, and there's a number of lines here. They're beautiful. Basically, it's a celebration of easter, where of Easter, where it's announced that Christ is risen today it's announced, where the men and angels say hallelujah, praise God where earth replies as heaven sings, where earth replies as heaven sings.
Speaker 2:And then there's a number of beautiful sort of scriptural echoes and such, but here's the line that I want to focus on where it says, soar we now where Christ has led, following our exalted head.
Speaker 2:In other words, christ is the head of us, he is leading the way, he is pioneering the way. We are made like Christ, and like Christ, one day we too will rise, not yet, not now, but one day we will rise. Ours the cross, the grave, the skies, but one day we will rise, ours the cross, the grave, the skies. In other words, in this life we are to take up our cross and follow Jesus. One day we will be laid in the grave, but on another day that is yet to come the skies will be our limit. We will soar in the skies, as Christ has done.
Speaker 2:So it's a beautiful hymn because it takes just so many elements of it that death has tried to hold Jesus down. But death could not hold Jesus down. Nothing could hold him down. He rose from the grave. The victory is now his and heaven and earth. Rejoice and give praise, and it's just a fantastic hymn. As I read those words, I imagine there were a lot of Protestants out there. Maybe others who could hum along with it as well. I wasn't going to sing and upset.
Speaker 4:Darrell Bock yeah, you're the one who can sing.
Speaker 2:I wasn't going to do that tonight, but I wanted to read that fantastic poem upon which the hymn is based. Many of our ancient hymns, or older hymns, were based upon poems written by great theologians in their own right, in their own day, who were deeply immersed in Scripture and theology. So I don't know if Miranda can find the other one.
Speaker 4:She's got it already. She's got it. Had it within 10 seconds.
Speaker 2:Let's go to Rudy before we go to break. When he comes back, I'd love to hear that song.
Speaker 4:You don't want to play the song and then go to the break.
Speaker 2:Well, we could do that now, but I want to give Rudy some time we will when we come back.
Speaker 5:Play the song. Yeah, and then we'll come back. Right, buddy, play the song. Okay, let's play the song.
Speaker 2:Let's go Play the song.
Speaker 6:Okay, let's play the song. Hear the bells ringing. They're singing that we can be born again. I think you're going to have to sing that again. Hear the bells ringing. They're singing. Christ is risen from the dead. The angel upon the tombstone said he is risen, just as he said. Quickly, now go tell his disciples that Jesus Christ is the Lord and joy to the world. He is risen. Hallelujah, he's risen. Hallelujah, he's risen. Hallelujah, hallelujah. Hear the bells ringing. They're singing that we can be born again. Hear the bells ringing. They're singing. Christ is risen from the dead. The angel up on the tombstone he is risen, just as he said. Quickly, now, go tell his disciples that Jesus Christ is no longer dead. Joy to the world, he is risen. Hallelujah, he's risen. Hallelujah, he's risen. Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah.
Speaker 4:David, before we go to the break, that was the hymn that was based on the poem you read.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, this was the newer song. I said I had something old and something new.
Speaker 4:Okay, then when we come back, you're going to have to help me understand the words. I couldn't hear the lyrics. Okay, gotcha, all right.
Speaker 7:Okay, this is 1070 KNTH and we shall be right back.
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Speaker 4:The Answer All right, welcome back to A Show of Faith on AM 107,. The Answer David, just could you quickly go over the lyrics or at least tell me what it was, because I really couldn't hear them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let me just say that there are two songs there that I had. The first was Something Old from 1739, written by Charles Wesley.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 2:The second one that Miranda. Thank you, miranda, for finding that and playing that. The second one that she played was from 1974. Okay, so it was brand new. It was a part of the Jesus Music Movement knew it was a part of the Jesus music movement back in with a group called the second chapter of Acts. The person who wrote it was Annie Herring, h-e-r-r-i-n-g, and they made up this vocal band that was fantastic, called the second chapter of Acts. So here's the words very quickly. It's fantastic, paul, the second chapter of Acts. So here's the words very quickly. Hear the bells ringing. They're singing that you can be born again. Hear the bells ringing. They're singing. Christ is risen from the dead. The angel up on the tombstone said he had risen, just as he said Quickly, now go tell his disciples that Jesus Christ is no longer dead. Joy to the world. He is risen, alleluia. He is risen, alleluia. I don't know, father Mario, in your tradition, but in a number of traditions when.
Speaker 2:Easter arrives, there's a lot of bells that are rung.
Speaker 7:Yes.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that happens in Catholic.
Speaker 7:It does.
Speaker 2:At the Easter vigil.
Speaker 7:No, just Easter, Sunday mostly.
Speaker 2:Easter Sunday. Well, depending upon the church, sometimes at the Easter vigil on Saturday night, these great bells are rung, and it's beautiful, it's noisy, it's glorious. And so the ringing of the bells and announcing of the fact that Christ has risen from the dead, that's what Easter is all about, and the fact that, too, we can be born again and that we can be made right with God through that. So it's a great song, but it's a song that represents the sensibilities of the 1970s, whereas the other one was sensibilities of the 1739.
Speaker 4:I noticed that the second song well, there was no music to the first one, but the second one was a lot more upbeat, a lot more well, it was modern, so it sounded more modern.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, because you're saying, I mean, it's the ringing of the bells, it's rejoicing, it's announcing that Christ is risen from the dead and that he's risen just like he said. That Christ is risen from the dead and that he's risen just like he said. And now it's up to the disciples to get the word out basically so it's very much upbeat.
Speaker 4:I want to go to Rudy real soon. But when you talk about the bells, are you talking about like bells in a tower or are you talking about like at the front of the sanctuary?
Speaker 2:It could be both, oh okay, bells in the, in the, in the, at the church, you know, because I remember bell tower, or it can be, uh, the bells that are like handbells.
Speaker 4:You know, right, that's. I see that okay, because I remember hearing bells in a church tower, but I don't think I've heard those for a long time anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Hmm, Okay.
Speaker 6:Rudy.
Speaker 4:David, again I want to ask you, like I asked Mario Did you fully explain what it means to you, why those two songs were important to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 5:But also kind of the theology behind okay, all right, rudy, you're up open, let us sing to the lord, let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.
Speaker 5:That's from psalm 95, and I'm reminded of this thing that Augustine of Hippo used to say St Augustine, singing belongs to one who loves, or singing is for one who loves, and within this kind of like oral tradition we hold that he who sings while praying is like praying twice, right, and so music is sort of a especially sacred music, musika sakura, right, it's kind of you were kind of alluding to it in the beginning and it's interesting, the song or the one that you picked, because fundamentally it's also. It's interesting the song or the one that you pick because, like, fundamentally, it's also supposed to teach, right, it's supposed to transmit tradition, doctrine, what we've learned, what are what our ancestors to, to some large degree, the revelation right just through through song. And so one of the songs that I think I also picked, also picked two, it's this sort of old Spanish, vilán siso. It's called Rio Rio Chiu. Now, rio Rio Chiu doesn't really mean anything, it's I don't know how to say this word, but it's onomatopoeic, onomatopoeic, onomatopoeic it's kind of like when a sound represents some words.
Speaker 4:It's not an actual meaning, but it's just kind of like Like chirp-chirp for a bird. It's spelled out the way it sounds when an animal Like woof-woof Exactly. Okay, it's called an on way it sounds when like an animal like woof, woof Exactly. Okay, it's called an onomatopoeia. Onomatopoeia right.
Speaker 2:Onomatopoeia.
Speaker 5:Okay, onomatopoeia, you spell it. No, that's all. So the words go like this, and I'm not going to read the whole thing. But so it starts Rio Rio Chiu, and I'm of course translating because this is kind of like old Spanish. This was actually written in the 16th century and it goes Rio Rio Chiu.
Speaker 5:The riverbank protector. God has protected our lamb from the wolf. Riverbank protector god has protected our lamb from the wolf. Uh, this one who is born is the great monarch, christ, the patriarch clothed in flesh, flesh. He has redeemed us by becoming small. Though he was infinite, he has made himself finite. Real, real cheer.
Speaker 5:The riverbank protector. God protected our land from the wolf. Many prophecies have foretold it and now, in our days, we have attained it. We see, god made human on earth and man in heaven because he desired it. Um, I saw a thousand angels who were singing, flying around, making a thousand sounds, saying to the shepherd glory in heaven and peace on earth, for jesus is born, and it kind of it continues, but it's a Christmas sort of carol that was being sung at that time, right.
Speaker 5:So the words are interesting because it kind of captures, and this is something that I think Father Mario was alluding to as well. It's just life, and I don't think we really realize how bad life used to be compared to how and I'm not saying we live in a perfect world, but sort of how safe we are now right. So a lot of these songs and a lot of the hymns are sort of geared towards kind of giving us this assurance, this sort of feeling of protection from our creator. And this is kind of one of the main things that it's trying to do. And sacred music and music in general, it activates what's interesting to me. It activates multiple sort of parts of the brain simultaneously those responsible for language, for processing emotional response, memory, and so when we hear a familiar song and Father Mario used the song oh Holy Night, literally our brain, the way that our brain lights up is something like we can't find really in anything else. It's just the depth of that neurological impact that it has literally transcends across memory, across time, like we're quite physically and genetically tapping into something ancient, right, something that reminds us.
Speaker 5:And so it kind of goes above just listening to something, because really, if you think about music and sacred music, it isn't just, oh, we're gonna hear something, at least within the Catholic tradition, to and rather, of course, within, within the right there's and even in Protestant churches, I mean, you have this sort of control of the breath. Right, there's a physical resonance that happens. Right, there's a sort of a communal thing that's happening. It kind of ties you in to the people around you. There's an integration that happens and this transmission that occurs of these hymns. You're tapping into something that has been going on for possibly thousands of years, and I use thousands of years because of and, of course, within Jewish tradition.
Speaker 5:Right, but, rabbi, the other example I was going to bring and I know we have about a minute left was the Salve Regina. The Salve Regina was written in the 11th century and the way that we sing it now in Latin, you can still hear it in the same exact way as it was written a thousand years ago. Beautiful thing to be able to think that man, people have been participating and sitting this in liturgy for en masse across a thousand years. I mean, it's something that ties you, it has roots, it kind of gives you something to even feel that you belong.
Speaker 4:Right, right. When everybody sings it together, it's unifying.
Speaker 5:Yeah, across time. Except when Mario does it, then it's just penitence. It unifies us in penitence.
Speaker 4:Rudy, is there the two songs that you mentioned? Why? Why do they mean so much to you?
Speaker 5:And you've got about 30 seconds. Well, the first song I actually heard it sang by the Monkees. You guys know who the Monkees are. I mean, you guys are a bunch of old guys.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thanks.
Speaker 5:Okay, so I just heard it, and it's a great rhythm. The first thing that captured me is the rhythm, and then it was the message of the Redemptor and Jesus.
Speaker 4:You're up five seconds.
Speaker 5:Taking on the flesh. Yeah, go ahead, rabbi, it's okay All right, yeah, we are there.
Speaker 7:Well, thank you for listening to the Show of Faith. Please, during this week, keep us in your prayer, because you're going to be in ours. Keep singing.
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