A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
July 6. 2025 Special: Ask Us Anything
What happens when ancient wisdom meets modern questions? When a rabbi, priest, professor, and millennial tackle your deepest spiritual curiosities, the result is a fascinating exploration of faith that transcends traditional boundaries.
Tonight's episode takes a different approach as our interfaith panel responds to listener questions about everything from biblical serpents to the limits of government authority. The conversation begins with a poignant acknowledgment of the devastating floods in Central Texas, reminding us that even amid theological discussions, real human suffering demands our attention and response.
Diving into Genesis 3, we discover striking differences between Jewish and Christian interpretations. Rabbi reads the serpent narrative literally—snakes are just snakes—while our Christian panelists see something more sinister lurking beneath the surface. This seemingly simple difference opens a window into how various faith traditions approach sacred texts and reveals the roots of theological divergence that has shaped centuries of religious thought.
The most provocative moments emerge when we grapple with the relationship between faith and governance. Can virtue be legislated? Our panel unanimously recognizes the limits of law in creating moral citizens while acknowledging its role in protecting shared values. "A society that doesn't recognize there is a law above the law becomes tyranny of majority will," quotes Rudy, capturing the delicate balance between religious conviction and civil authority.
Perhaps most relatable is our honest examination of religious practices across traditions. When a listener questions whether giving up meat on Fridays during Lent truly compares to the rigorous fasting of Ramadan, Father Mario candidly admits the criticism has merit. The conversation reveals how easily meaningful spiritual disciplines can devolve into empty rituals when divorced from their purpose.
Whether you're questioning the divine inspiration of scripture, wondering about religious conversion, or simply curious about how different faiths approach self-discipline, this episode offers thoughtful perspectives without easy answers. Join us in this candid interfaith dialogue where difficult questions lead to deeper understanding.
There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there Telling me I've got to beware. I think it's time we stop. Children, what's that sound? Everybody, look what's going down. There's battle lines being drawn. Nobody's right if everybody's wrong. Young people speak in their minds Are getting so much resistance from behind Every time we stop. Hey, what's that sound? Everybody, look what's going down.
Speaker 2:Hey, what's that sound Everybody. Look what's going down. Welcome to A Show of Faith where a professor, priest, millennial and rabbi discuss theology, philosophy, morality and ethics and anything else of interest in religion. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, or if you'd like to email us a question you'd like us to like us to answer on on the air, we would love to hear from you. Email us at ashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom. Ashowoffaith1070 at gmailcom. You can hear our shows again and again by listening. Pretty much everywhere podcasts are heard our professors, david capes, protestant minister and Director of Academic Programming for the Lanier Theological Library.
Speaker 3:Thank you, but I think you're supposed to go to Father Mario first, because he wanted to be the first one mentioned.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, forget I said that Our priest is Father Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St Cyril of Alexandria in the 10,000 block of Westheimer you?
Speaker 4:should have said the exalted Father Mario. Nope too far. Okay, I'm here.
Speaker 2:So if I made a mistake, do I have to introduce Dave a second time, or just let that go?
Speaker 3:No, let's just let that go.
Speaker 2:Rudy Kong is our millennial systems engineer. Has his master's degree in theology from the University of St Thomas.
Speaker 5:Howdy, howdy.
Speaker 3:Hey, rudy, good to hear you, hear you, good to see you.
Speaker 2:I'm Stuart Federer, retired rabbi of Congregation Char-Ar-Hush-Alone, the Clear Lake area of Houston, texas. Nikki and Miranda are board Miranda's our board operator and Nikki and Miranda help us sound fantastic.
Speaker 3:Yes, indeed, indeed Very good. Hey, listen, we got to start tonight with a recognition of the tragedy that is unfolding in.
Speaker 3:Central Texas. These floods, these have just ravaged Kirk County and other places. But you know, 80 people have been killed in these flash floods. Some of those, at least, have been children. They've been at this camp, Camp Mystic. Imagine sending your kids to a summer camp, thinking that's probably the safest place they could be, and then to have an event like this transpire and to see the devastation. So our prayers, our thoughts with those folks tonight as we begin the show, regardless of what we do, I mean it is a devastating, devastating event.
Speaker 4:I celebrated three Masses today and at each Mass I dedicated the celebration of the Mass and the prayers to all those people the parents and the children who died, the people who died. It's just an amazing go to bed and you think, oh, I'm going to get some rest tonight.
Speaker 3:You're going to get some sleep tonight, right?
Speaker 4:Man, so we commend them to God.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's about the best thing we can do really now stewart?
Speaker 2:I couldn't find it, but there is a charity that's has a title, something like central texas charities, and I don't have it. Yeah, but there are plenty of charities in the area to which you should donate and support all the needs of all the families and the people there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, salvation Army of Texas is one of those organizations that is taking out money and trying to help as they can. Obviously, there's a lot of property lost, things like that, but the main thing is the death of these people, these wonderful salt-of-the-earth people, these children who were just going to camp and having a great time at this time. So I mean my heart breaks, having lost a son a few years ago. My heart breaks, having lost a son, you know, a few years ago. I can almost imagine what these parents are going through. I mean, I know, but I mean our son was a long sickness, but to have it happen so quickly and unexpectedly, just devastating, yeah. So our prayers for these people. May God have mercy. May God have mercy.
Speaker 3:Amen and may a lot of the people who are out there right now searching and searching and searching have strength and energy beyond their normal capacity, because there's a lot of first responders, there's a lot of just people who live up in that area that have boats, that have certain kinds of vehicles, you know those kind of things, four-wheel drives that can get into some of those places. So that's going to be really crucial and helicopters are up there, you know, doing the same thing, People with drones are out there looking right.
Speaker 3:Um, so we hope that. We hope that it would be a miracle to find anybody at this point, it seems. But uh, we we believe in miracles. Anyway, tonight's gonna be a little different kind of show, right?
Speaker 2:uh, yes, uh, yeah. I got the bright idea a month ago to ask people to email us questions that they like one or all of us to answer. Right, and you know, got to tell you that what's the first question that somebody comes up to you to ask a question? Can I ask you a question?
Speaker 2:Yes, which is a question yes, and my answer is always the same. You can ask me anything you'd like, but you're not gonna like my answers, so that might be true for all three of us, maybe well, I hey we have seldom uh gone through a whole show where I didn't like your, all of your answers well thank you no, no, I'm no I.
Speaker 3:I think I said that the wrong way.
Speaker 8:I know what you meant.
Speaker 3:We have seldom gone through a show where I didn't agree With at least one answer yes, thank you With most of your answers. Didn't agree with most. Anyway, so we have. We've got a number of really good questions, I think. We've got a lot of of this yeah yeah, I mean we can come back to some of them later on too as well. All right.
Speaker 2:So taking this in order, okay, okay. This first is from the gentleman who calls himself Presbyterian Mark.
Speaker 3:Presbyterian Mark.
Speaker 2:Presbyterian Mark. Okay, all right. And he writes guys, how do your traditions interpret Genesis, chapter 3, verse 1 to 15, particularly verses 14 and 15,? And he is using the NIV translation who or what is the serpent? Who or what are the serpent's offspring? Who is the he who will crush the serpent's head and will be struck by the serpent? And, of course, what is the tree that is in the middle of the garden? Grace and peace, presbyterian Mark.
Speaker 3:All right, a lot of people probably totally lost by that question. So, stuart, give us a rundown of chapter three of the book of Genesis. All right.
Speaker 2:Well, the three is what some people call the fall.
Speaker 3:No, no commentary. Just tell us what happens in Genesis 3 alright.
Speaker 2:So, basically, the snake, the serpent, gets Eve to taste the forbidden fruit, the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and she takes the fruit first, gives tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and she takes the fruit first, gives it to her husband. They both eat of it. Their eyes are opened and God is not happy. So, coming down to verse 14, 15, this is the statement that God makes to the snake, and the eternal God said to the serpent because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle and above every beast of the field. Upon your belly shall you go and dust shall you eat all the days of your life, and I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. It shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his or its heel. So that's the operative verse that he wants us to speak on.
Speaker 3:Okay, yes, All right. So that's the. And different translations or different traditions take that according to. So, from a Jewish perspective, let's talk about how you read that particular text.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a snake. It never says anything in the text about the snake being satanic or the devil. It's a snake. And to answer his question, the next question who or what are the serpent's offspring, baby snakes? That's what it is. Who is the he who will crush the serpent's head and will be struck by the serpent?
Speaker 2:Here we have a problem with translation In Hebrew. You don't have an it's, even though the same verses I read from the king james uh says uh upon your belly, shall you go wait a minute, uh, verse 15 I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your seat and her seat. It shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel. Well, there's no it in the Hebrew language. So the generic unknown is his. So the Hebrew would read he shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel. But what it's referring to from the Jewish perspective is the seed. From the Jewish perspective is the seed Preceding it. It says I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. It meaning the snake shall bruise your head, meaning the seed's head, and you shall bruise his or its heel. And that's also the seed the children, the descendants. It explains the enmity between human beings and snakes.
Speaker 2:Cannot speak for anybody else here, but I think snakes are gross. I don't want to come anywhere. I don't care if they're cutesy little garden snakes. I don't want to come anywhere near them. Okay, unless it's maybe a dog or a cat. I'm not particularly fond of non-humans. It's not that I'm not fond of them, it's just that I'd rather not. So that's and what's the tree that's in the middle of the garden. I assume that's a reference. I'm not sure what verse you're referring to, but that's the tree of life. I'm sorry, that's the tree of the, the fruit of the tree of the difference between good and evil. It's the fruit of the tree of the difference between good and evil. It's not the fruit of the tree.
Speaker 3:It's the tree. The tree, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Right, that's what I said. You're not listening.
Speaker 4:Right, so I think we should do two suggestions. Okay, one I think that there's three Christians here, and the three Christians probably are going to have fairly similar interpretations. I think that's true, so I don't think we should spend time.
Speaker 2:Unless there's a difference between Protestant and Catholic.
Speaker 3:Not a lot on this.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't think no.
Speaker 3:So, Mario, you want to give us a Catholic perspective on this.
Speaker 4:Catholic Christian, I think.
Speaker 3:Catholic Christian yeah.
Speaker 4:I think the whole issue is interpreted from the well, no, let me do this. You do it because you're better at when it comes to the Scripture interpretation.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, all right, I can do that, rudy, are you in agreement with that?
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, all right, I can do that. Rudy, are you in agreement with that? Yeah, give it a go Okay. I mean we're kind of in the same page, it's just the serpent.
Speaker 3:I think the identity of the serpent ends up being interesting and important. Here we have the text begins with the serpent in chapter 3. Now remember that God has created as kind of a setup. God has created humanity, and God has created everything light and darkness, and land and dry land and such the seas and then God has created Genesis, chapter 2. It is not good that man should be alone. So God creates the animals in the same manner that he's going to be creating others, and then none of those were found to be helpmates I'm not sure that's a great translation of that but a companion for Adam. So God made we've got to take a break here. God made, then the woman who comes out of man, and man has just this wonderful poetic response she is now bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh. She shall be called Eshah because she was taken out of.
Speaker 3:Esh. So, at any rate, it's great poetry in its day, and so that sets us up for chapter three. In chapter three, though, we see that they are in the Garden of Eden, and then something happens in the Garden of Eden, and we're going to talk about that. I guess, father Mario, when we come back from the break.
Speaker 4:Yep, can we do that? Yep, this is 1070 KNTH and we will be right back.
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Speaker 2:Welcome back to A Show of Faith on AM 1070. The answer we are answering emails.
Speaker 3:Right tonight from Mark Presbyterian Mark, yes Asked the question of and from Genesis, chapter 3, who or what is the servant Now here? I think I would disagree with my friend Rabbi Stuart Svetter.
Speaker 7:You're wrong, you're wrong.
Speaker 3:I think, yeah, he's is represented as a serpent, and yet there is more to him than that. He's not just a regular run of the mill snake. First of all, he's a talking snake, and and there aren't too many talking snakes they, they, they didn't. Most people would have understood Don't, don't, just interrupt me. Did I say don't? I didn't say that, Just interrupt me.
Speaker 2:Did I say a word? I didn't say a word.
Speaker 3:You went. Anyway, I think we're to understand. There's something different about this snake. Now. In the ancient world he would have been understood probably as some sort of an angelic or divine being of some sort, not a divine being over against God, superior to God, but someone maybe is a part. Some would say the heavenly council, or some would say different kinds of things. So I take him as for more than just a serpent, because he's a talking serpent and he ends up tripping up Eve and Adam along the way, but it's a talking serpent with nefarious intentions.
Speaker 4:Exactly, yeah, with malevolent intentions. Mischievous.
Speaker 3:Mischievous yeah, mischievous is another way of putting it. And so a great book on this Presbyterian Mark is a book by Michael Heiser, who's written a book called the Unseen Realm. I'd recommend that book to you, michael Heiser, the Unseen Realm, because he ends up going in a lot of different directions from the history and traditions of the times of the ancient world and how these things might have been taken or understood. The tree that's in the middle of the garden, yes, is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which I take to be not just knowledge, knowing about something but having experiential knowledge of and such.
Speaker 3:And control and a wishing of control, right, yeah, yeah, when you talk about 14 to 15, let me read those verses one more time. The Lord said to the serpent he said because you've done this, cursed are you. Above all, the livestock On your belly shall go dust. You shall eat all the days of your life. I'll put enmity between you and the woman, between your offspring and her offspring. I'll put enmity between you and the woman, between your offspring and her offspring. He shall bruise, that is, the offspring of Eve, will bruise your head. You shall bruise his heel, which is understood historically as an early vision of the gospel. Yes, proto-evangelium is what it's often referred to.
Speaker 4:And Father Mario, you may have kind of. No, that's basically it. I mean, it's a prophetic understanding of the conflict that is about to occur Right and, from our perspective as Christians, it's what's called the proto-evangelium, in other words, it's forecasting the conflict that Jesus will come in and Jesus will— An offspring of the woman, that's right.
Speaker 3:Not all offspring, but offspring meaning a singular. That's correct Offspring will be the one who ultimately crushes the head of the opposition at that point, and it's understood in that sense, in between a contest, as it were, between jesus and the devil and basically all of this is big difference between judaism, the interpretation that judaism enormous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and operative term is interpretation, yeah interpretation for us?
Speaker 4:uh, beginning with saint augustine in the fourth century, uh, this was interpreted as the beginning of what's called the fall, and the fall is that human beings broke with God and they lost their sense of who they are. I always like to enjoy asking people when Adam and Eve eat of this, they find they're naked. And I've always found it very interesting that God is walking in the garden and he says Adam Eve, where are you? And Adam says I was naked, so we were naked and so we hid. And I love the next sentence who told you you were naked? In other words, when you're in the bathroom taking a shower, do you need anybody to tell you you're naked? Well, of course not. Why would God ask that unless the whole concept of nakedness not enter the human consciousness? And for me it's very interesting that the human, for all this evolution that we talk about in secular culture, it's interesting that the human person, the human being, is the only one who wears clothes. I always tell people go home, tell your dog you're naked.
Speaker 2:Yesterday. Yesterday was it Sunday. Today we saw a dog with a little skirt on.
Speaker 5:Rudy Rudy, yeah, sorry about that no, no, I just wanted to add that, as Catholics and this is probably where we differ from you guys, and this is from the catechism, right but the Christian tradition, at least the Catholic tradition in this case sees this particular passage too as the announcement of the New Eid. So Mary, the mother of Christ because you know, this is one of the things that is quite divisive of many Protestants and Catholics, of many Protestants and Catholics, is the Immaculate Conception and Mary's role or veneration, if you will. So this is quite an important passage, right, and it kind of foreshadows Revelations 2, but I know we've got to go to it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so almost a premonition of Eve at this point. A premonition of Eve at this point, that this A premonition of Mary. Sorry, sorry. A premonition of Mary out of Eve, of Mary, yeah, yeah, good right.
Speaker 4:Okay, this is TANTH 1070, the Answer, and we will be right back.
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Speaker 1:The Answer. There is a season and a time to every purpose A time to be born, a time to die, a time to plant, a time to reap, a time to kill, a time to heal, a time to read, a time to kill, a time to heal, a time to laugh, a time to weep.
Speaker 2:Well, welcome back to a show of 35 and 10-7. The Answer.
Speaker 3:All right, stuart. Who's next?
Speaker 2:Now we're turning to Debbie in Spring, and she asked the following. First question, the medical assistance in death law in New York, which we discussed a few weeks ago.
Speaker 3:Well, we talked about that last week. Yeah, last week.
Speaker 2:Okay. Ben Franklin's famous response was a republic if you can keep it. Maintaining a republic and liberty requires virtue. How do we maintain a virtuous society if the government is legalizing sin?
Speaker 4:well, it all depends on what kind of sin I mean you can legalize. For example, we tried prohibition. Okay, and depends on whose concept of sin and prohibition brought even worse and which sin they're not all the same, yeah so. So I mean, the government cannot legalize, cannot legalize. How should I say this enforce virtue by law. You can't, you can't, yeah, you can no. I mean, you can't do it, totally no, but you can push people in the right direction.
Speaker 2:That is correct. The laws of desegregation.
Speaker 4:That is correct. Yes but you can't totally turn society.
Speaker 2:No you can't, because you can't by law change a person's heart. No, you can't. But you can control their behavior, that's right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do think that our founding fathers expected that the people who would be ruling and the people who would be making decisions and those kind of things would be virtuous people, that they would be people, not necessarily perfect people, but people who knew what the virtues are and pursued the virtues significantly in their life, whether religious or not. Not all virtues are religious virtues.
Speaker 4:The problem is that you don't know where the line of virtue is. For example, can you make a law limiting the amount of, say, alcohol that you can drink?
Speaker 2:We tried that, as you said earlier.
Speaker 4:The more you try to control some things, the worse you make it. So I don't know that that line can be drawn, that you can say that the government can only legalize virtue. You can push people in that direction, but you can't outlaw sin in all things.
Speaker 2:But I think that what we can do is use the law to make statements about our values. That's correct. In other words, we can say that there's a law for the past 20, 30 years about a hate crime Right the past 20, 30 years about a hate crime Right that if a person does something, it's one kind of law, but if they do it as a result of prejudice, If it becomes, yeah. Because we are making a value judgment that one act is worse than another act. Yeah, and we're putting it in law.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's the effectiveness of law. I think, yeah, I think law does expect a certain amount of virtue of people, but it doesn't necessarily, it doesn't guarantee it. But the government should not be I don't think saying that suicide is A-OK.
Speaker 4:Let's go to Rudy. Rudy, do you have anything to comment on this?
Speaker 5:Yeah, I was going to say no. No, that there's a good saying by St Pope, john Paul II it's a society that does not recognize that there is a law above the law, a moral law that, in human nature and divine reason, becomes tyranny of majority will. Right, but the church clearly teaches that civil law must be rooted in natural law. But they're not the same thing, right, that's right. It's supposed to reflect a moral order. If you will and you can—I think we have an easier time dealing with the negatives. Right, like thou shalt not murder, like that's a.
Speaker 2:The big ones.
Speaker 5:That's a very kind of right and thou shalt not steal. We can granularly get down to okay, but what about land? What about your car? What about you know, breaking somebody's property? So you can from these main laws. That's where we kind of have extracted a lot of our human law, if you will, or civil law. I mean, I think that I agree with Salt and Mara. I can't tell you, david, be humble, or David, be giving with your things and think about others. You can't root that into a sort of civil code. Now, there are certain things that you can do for if you see a crime, to report it, or if you know it to not become an accomplice, but again, I think it's always in the negative fashion, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think too. You know, by generosity you can put initiatives in the tax code to encourage people to be giving. But that's not the. That is a law, but it's a different sort of law. I know we got to get on to the next question.
Speaker 2:And it doesn't make them generous.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It merely entices them to give. It's not the same thing.
Speaker 3:No, that's true.
Speaker 2:Generosity is a character, is part of a character, but the act you can legislate and that is hey, you want a tax break. Give, charity, Give to charity.
Speaker 3:What's the next?
Speaker 2:question. Well, the next question— it's sort of related about—.
Speaker 3:It is related. Yes, stuart, you want me to read it. Go ahead. Yeah, has the Catholic Church changed its views on suicides, people who have committed suicide being buried in sanctified ground?
Speaker 4:Yes, of course, the whole issue with suicides. In the Catholic Church we've deepened our understanding. When a person commits suicide, they really don't want to die, they want to stop suffering, and so when you lose, suicide is still a sin. It's a mortal sin. But the whole issue is remember. For a mortal sin in the Catholic Church, you have to have serious matter. Which suicide is sufficient reflection and full consent of the will. When you are in a state of intense suffering, you can't give full consent of the will because you can't have clarity.
Speaker 2:Right, it's the same thing in Judaism. You can't be for lack of a better term insane, and you can assume that they were not in their right mind when they killed themselves.
Speaker 4:Yes, so anybody can be buried in holy ground.
Speaker 3:Okay, and is that true in Judaism too, Stuart? That anybody can be buried Not anybody but a Jewish person who's committed a mortal Right.
Speaker 2:There are certain things that they will recommend in Jewish laws and traditions. For example, they're not going to get a glorified eulogy. Okay, they're not going to be. I've seen bunches of cemeteries and I've never really understood the idea of a better area of the cemetery. It's a cemetery, but you don't put them in a place of honor in the cemetery if they've committed suicide. But yes, they still get all the rights and services for suicide.
Speaker 3:Here's the question for you, stuart. I can't answer this for you. Is being a Jew based on bloodline or race?
Speaker 2:No, If it was, you can't convert to become a Jew.
Speaker 3:Well, that's the next part of the question. It's not bloodline, it's not race, right, right? So, since it is, you can convert.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:A person can convert and become a Jew.
Speaker 2:So a non-Jew In the book of Esther, 8th chapter. Okay.
Speaker 3:Okay, so are they fully Jewish? A non-Jew? You have that in the book of Esther, eighth chapter. Okay. Okay, so are they fully Jewish? Yes, are they treated fully?
Speaker 2:Jewish. Well, jews have creeps too, but, yes, they're supposed to be fully Jewish and treated completely and utterly as a Jew, and the fact that they converted is never supposed to even be spoken about them.
Speaker 3:Oh really.
Speaker 2:Okay, you know people are still people, right, but it's really that explicitly stated in Jewish laws and traditions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, right, really.
Speaker 2:If someone who is Asian or black converts to Judaism, they are still obviously Asian or black, but they're also Jews now because they've converted. But a person can't convert to become black. A person can't convert to become Asian. So being a Jew is not race, it's not bloodline. Let's see, yeah, it's not bloodline. Those are the two words she used bloodline or race. So it's neither. We are a nation, and every nation has its rights of defining who's a citizen and defining the process of naturalization to become a citizen. And for the Jewish nation and I don't mean the state of Israel- I'm talking about Jews as a nation or people.
Speaker 2:The act of naturalization is the process of conversion to the religion. So we're a nation defined by our religion. What did God say to Abraham? I will make you a great culture. No, I'll make you a great ethnic group. No, I will make you a great nation, because that's what we are.
Speaker 3:Interesting Mario.
Speaker 2:No, anything there.
Speaker 4:No, okay.
Speaker 2:What's the next question? All of these questions have been great. Many of you, most of you, the five people who responded, have multiple questions in every email and we can't get to all of them this week.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what about Tom of Alvin? Tom of Alvin has kind of an interesting thing. I would love our millennial to chime in on this one Right, yes.
Speaker 4:What's the?
Speaker 2:question the first one or second one?
Speaker 3:Do the first one.
Speaker 2:Okay, Rudy, this is for you. I saw something recently that at first glance was inspirational. Later I thought it might be inappropriate in its context. There was a celebration of a soccer championship immediately following the final match in England. All the team members were wearing special champions shirts, except one. He wore a shirt that read something like Jesus, the way, the truth and the light. What are your thoughts on expressing a religious message at this type of celebration, when the rest of the team is wearing a specific uniform?
Speaker 4:Rudy.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I don't know, I don't think I care too much, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you don't care too much about that. You mean you don't like it?
Speaker 2:No, you don't care what he wears. We're not sure what you mean.
Speaker 5:I mean, what's that right?
Speaker 2:I said we don't know if you meant you were you don't care about it or you were upset by it.
Speaker 5:You weren't clear on what you said. No, no, I don't care. I guess what I'm saying is I don't really care for it, you know. Oh okay, I think it's just. I don't know. I have a weird situation. Maybe I'm sort of a weird millennial in that sense well, we know that about you.
Speaker 2:Anyway, let me ask Father Mario do you have any thoughts?
Speaker 3:about it.
Speaker 4:I know you're not a sports guy the team owner or the team captain has the right to set the dress code. If the team owner or the team captain does not set a dress code, then you can wear whatever you want. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I would say a person can wear whatever they want. However, there is appropriate dress and there's inappropriate dress and, like you said, the king tapping or the owner of the team or whoever would be able to set that. That's it, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that there was not something said that everybody wears this T-shirt the championship T-shirt when the game is over, if we win the thing.
Speaker 2:I probably did you know there's been this.
Speaker 3:We got to take a break. Let's come back.
Speaker 4:Come back and talk about this. This is come time. This is a comeback.
Speaker 2:You sounded like me 10 minutes ago.
Speaker 4:This is KNTH 1070, and we'll be right back.
Speaker 9:AM 1070, the answer.
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Speaker 7:The answer Mr Sandman, bring me a dream. Make him the cutest that I've ever seen.
Speaker 2:I didn't mean to give you a heart attack with my singing.
Speaker 7:Like roses and clover, I'm beating my chest in protest. I didn't mean to give you a heart attack with my singing.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to our show of faith.
Speaker 4:I thought you weren't supposed to curse on me. Who cursed? She keeps on saying bum bum, bum, bum.
Speaker 3:That's it, yeah, no, no, all right, we have another question from Tom of Alvin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes. His second question how important is the practice of self-discipline or self-sacrifice to Judaism and Christianity? It always impresses me when a devout Muslim goes through Ramadan without eating or drinking during daylight hours. I know a Hindu woman who uses vacation time so she can spend nine days in total silence. It seems to me the most Catholics, like me, spend our Lenten season of sacrifice by eating tons of fried fish every Friday at the KC Hall, or we give up our Friday night meatloaf in favor of a rather gluttonous seafood feast at Papa Do's. This hardly seems parallel to the sacrifice and discipline of other religions.
Speaker 3:Father Mario.
Speaker 4:That is correct.
Speaker 3:What does that mean?
Speaker 4:It means it's a very good criticism, because many Catholics are not holding to the principle of self-denial in that sense.
Speaker 2:For what?
Speaker 4:Yes, but the problem is, of course, that if you don't have the spirituality of self-denial and why you're doing it, thedenial and why you're doing it, the whole point of why you're doing it, then it just becomes some silly rule that you say, okay, I'm not going to eat meat on Friday, on Good Friday, but I'm going to go out and spend $300 on lobster. You know so it's just stupid. So there's some things if you do it with the right reason, you know that's great.
Speaker 4:Right, the carbonbalah intention? That's right. Or, like me, what I used to do in Lent. I used to give up chocolate and I would spend the entire Lenten season going oh I need chocolate. Look, god, what I'm doing for you. I'm suffering for chocolate, god, I give up chocolate and then on Easter Sunday I'd buy the biggest chocolate bar I could buy and I'd get sick eating. That was stupid, as if God was enjoying my suffering.
Speaker 3:That's just dumb Rudy, let me get Rudy the millennial, let's get the millennial in here on that.
Speaker 5:I mean it's without understanding the purpose of it. So to what point I'm always. I was just reading earlier this morning the story, the rebellion of the Maccabees, and it's like the sacrifice right there that the brothers go through, and To me it's that essentially right. If you have an understanding of what it is that you're doing and for what it is that you're doing, then you're doing it out of what I would like to call some sort of love, right? Whether you know, as a parent, you know, if you tell your child something, you know, go clean your room. You know whether they do it because they know they're going to get in trouble or they do it because they love you and they don't want to see. You know, here comes dad or here comes mom. He's going to do it for me, right, and I shouldn't put him through that.
Speaker 5:There's still kind of grades to that which I think lead to spiritual growth and are sort of part of the maturity of the soul, if you will. Um, but, but it starts. Sometimes it starts with with um, with a little bit of humility, just listening and and, and maybe not understanding exactly as to the entire extent of why it is that I'm doing this, right. I mean I think it kind of plays into our faith. I mean as much as I would say you guys I mean Rabbi, mario and David you guys studied the Bible and led these religious lives for longer than I've been alive.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's indeed true. Thanks for pointing that out, right.
Speaker 5:But did you really say that you understand all aspects of the faith?
Speaker 3:Oh, no, no, no no.
Speaker 5:Your faith particularly.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 5:Right. But there's a desire within you, even now, right, to, maybe, I would say, learn to grow, to share, to love. And I think, if you understand that part of sacrifice, I think God can kind of use all aspects of that to let you grow, but it's always with, what would you say, a participation from us, a willing participation from us even though we may not understand it fully.
Speaker 3:Let's let Stuart talk about Judaism for a second, because it was about Judaism and Christianity.
Speaker 2:Of course, but all religions, I believe, have some form of self-denial as a spiritual tool. You know, the Bible is filled with people fasting For the Day of Atonement, yom Kippur, which comes in September, october. It's a fall holiday, holy day, and it's the Day of Atonement. It's a day spent in prayer, and part of that observance of the day is neither eating or drinking for what amounts to about 25 hours. And the purpose is manifold. First, the Bible says on that day you will afflict yourself. And there's biblical interpretation and other interpretation that has always understood afflict yourself to mean fasting, not eating or drinking.
Speaker 2:Okay, it also reminds us that there are people who are not choosing to fast, but whose situation in life makes them not able to eat because they're poor. And it creates not just sympathy oh, the poor little poor person. It creates not just sympathy oh, the poor little poor person. It creates empathy. You now know what they feel, but they're not feeling it by choice, you are. That should make us more empathetic. Okay, so, multiple reasons. But every religion also has its martyrs, where a person is sacrificing their own life for a greater cause. So I think that self-discipline or self-sacrifice is very much a part of really all religions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's true. You talk about Islam and people not eating during Ramadan for a month eating or drinking during daylight hours and having then minimal food the other times.
Speaker 3:You know, the word disciple comes from a root that means discipline and disciples themselves. If you're a student, then you discipline yourself. If you're a student of Jesus, if you're a follower of Jesus, you're going to discipline yourself. And you're a follower of Jesus you're going to discipline yourself, and you're going to do so out of a desire to please him, and you're going to do so out of a desire to know him and know him better. And it takes all kinds of manifestations. I mean, you've talked, Stuart, about the discipline of not eating a cheeseburger, Right.
Speaker 2:Or keeping kosher.
Speaker 3:Or keeping kosher right.
Speaker 2:Keeping the Sabbath.
Speaker 3:We have all of our faiths have that, and I do think that, as Rudy has said, father Mario has said that we do our best. Well, we are at our best when we are exercising these disciplines knowingly and intentionally, not just sort of accidentally along the way, stuart, yeah.
Speaker 5:Well we're running out of time. We should go to the next question.
Speaker 2:This is from Clay and all of his questions have been great questions. I wish we could get to all of them. But Clay writes Are the Torah and the Holy Bible divine words of God or collections of documents written by inspired and well-intentioned men? Both see, because the Torah is the first section of the Bible and the whole of the Bible has different kinds of literature and different, different expressions of the human spirit but I think that he's making a kind of a false dichotomy between the Word of God or men inspired.
Speaker 3:A lot of people have made that case. It's either the Word of God or it's the Word of man. Can't be both. That's a very common sort of attack.
Speaker 4:I always like to use this again. If I invite you to come and see a gold mine that I have and you walk in and you think, where's the gold? You are expecting all the walls to be made out of gold. Well, that's not the way it is. There's veins of gold. You have to dig it out and you have to separate made out of gold.
Speaker 2:Well, that's not the way it is. There's veins of gold. You have to dig it out.
Speaker 4:You have to dig it out and you have to separate it from the ore. Okay, so to my way of thinking, the Bible is the Word of God embedded in the Word of man, progressing in deeper understanding in the future.
Speaker 2:And I would agree with that. But I think there are also explicitly passages that I really don't think come from god, like I agree the psalms are written from the human heart, yes, and expression and expression of experiences, yes. So I forgot which psalm it is. David, you'll help me.
Speaker 3:137 I think is one year further dash, my dash.
Speaker 2:The children on the rocks, I don't think comes from god. I think that comes from somebody who had it happen to them yeah, okay, yeah, these are people who had seen their children destroyed and killed right on the journey to babylon right so.
Speaker 2:So if you're talking about the torah, the five books of moses, the first section of the bible, yes, I would call that from god. One way or other you have to say it's from God, because otherwise, if a human said thou shalt not murder, then another human can say thou shalt murder. And who's to say which is the better statement except another human opinion? So I believe that you really have to say there's a lot of God in it. Oh yeah, like the vain lady we were talking about. Yeah, that's right, you're so vain.
Speaker 4:This is opposed, of course, to the Muslim understanding of the Quran, because the Muslim understanding of the Quran is that every single word was dictated by God to Muhammad. Muhammad, yeah, it's like walking into a gold mine and saying, no, all of the walls are made of gold. The Quran is basically not the word of man, it's the word of God, a hundred percent, every single word. The Quran is not equal to our Bible. The Quran is not equal to our Bible.
Speaker 3:It's different. It's a different understanding of it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, but you know most of the Bible I would kind of look at that way, the Torah, the five books of Moses, I would say.
Speaker 3:The difference is, and we've got to go. How did God do this right? Is it let down out of heaven into a person's mind, or did they, through their experiences, write these things?
Speaker 2:out Was it dictated to Moses and Sinai. We're going to have to go.
Speaker 3:We can come back to this.
Speaker 4:We can come back to it next week, but, yes, both and both and both. And I just want to do a shout-out to Summer, who is a Jewish nurse who treated me, who knows you? Her name is.
Speaker 2:Summer Hi Sharon, who is a Jewish nurse who treated me. Who knows you? Her name is Summer Hi Sharon, who was listening.
Speaker 4:That's right, so this is 1070.