A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
September 14, 2025 Faith, Violence, and the Permission to Kill
A week like this forces hard questions to the surface. A beloved public figure is killed from a rooftop in Utah, a young woman bleeds out on a train in North Carolina, and a familiar claim spreads online: maybe speech is violence.
We lean into the discomfort and ask what a faithful response to political violence really looks like—without surrendering either courage or charity.
We begin by defining political violence and then test that definition against the facts, not the feeds. From there, we examine the “permission structures” that heat the civic pot: when rhetoric treats disagreement as erasure, when leniency erodes public safety, and when televised horror makes the rare feel routine.
The conversation turns to Catholic moral reasoning—self-defense, just war, and Richard John Neuhaus’s stark line: “Violence, when justified, is not an option but a sad duty.” We revisit the Vatican’s clandestine choices during World War II to frame how moral agency can resist evil without performative outrage that costs lives.
The second half navigates the most delicate claim: did this killing bear the marks of martyrdom? We weigh the public witness of faith, the hatred that targets it, and the paradox that assassination often amplifies a message instead of silencing it. Along the way, we grapple with data showing long-term declines in violent crime, even as our screens deliver cruelty in real time, and we discuss practical changes—from event security to the way we argue on campus and online—that can temper the temperature without curbing free speech.
If you’re looking for tidy answers, you won’t find them here. What you will hear is a clear moral spine: forgive what feels unforgivable because grace reached us first; tell the truth without venom; defend the innocent without celebrating force; and keep the public square open to complex questions. If that resonates, follow the show, share this episode with a friend who thinks deeply, and leave a review to help others find the conversation.
Oh, I can hardly hear anything. Just listen. What it is pain and stack. I can't hear anything. There's a hand with a little up, a little more up. Perfect. Hello, people. I guess you're listening. Hello and welcome to the show of faith. We're a minister, priest, rabbi, and millennial. Uh what do we do here?
SPEAKER_05:Discuss philosophy.
SPEAKER_08:Discuss philosophy, theology, we discuss religion.
SPEAKER_05:I mean important stuff.
SPEAKER_08:Important stuff, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Right. We we leave we leave nothing to unimportant stuff to other people. Yes, yes, we do. But we do the important stuff.
SPEAKER_08:So Stuart Stewart, uh the rabbi, is not here tonight.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, he is traveling right now. He is traveling. He is uh uh seldom on vacation, but I think he's vacating. He's going to see family and uh and friends in California and Seattle, as I heard.
SPEAKER_08:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So and and you're actually here.
SPEAKER_08:What do you mean I'm actually here?
SPEAKER_05:I mean I mean you're you're here. You're not on vacation.
SPEAKER_08:No, I I'm I am probably out of the th the all of us the one who's here the most.
SPEAKER_05:You probably that's true, because you're the most faithful.
SPEAKER_08:I'm the most faithful. You're the most faithful. That's when when I go to Jesus and he says, Welcome, you are the most faithful.
SPEAKER_05:He says that too often, does he?
SPEAKER_08:I don't think so.
SPEAKER_05:So this is Father Mario Arroyo.
SPEAKER_08:I am Father Mario Arroyo.
SPEAKER_05:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_08:Uh I'm from Cuba, that's why rung. And I am the retired pastor of St. Cyril of Alexandria Catholic Church. And who are you?
SPEAKER_05:Well, I am David Capes. I am the director of academic programming at the Lanier Theological Library in Houston, Texas.
SPEAKER_08:And who is the guy, that young guy who's on the phone?
SPEAKER_05:He's a young guy. You know, we just picked him up last week. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:Uh I heard he was in the gutter.
SPEAKER_05:Um, yeah, he might have been. What now? Rudy.
SPEAKER_07:Off the street.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, in the gutter. You know? In the gutter.
SPEAKER_05:Rudy lives down in Guatemala and he joins us. He's got a master's degree in in theology from St. Thomas. And or St. Thomas, that's right. Yeah, St. Thomas. I almost said St. Mary's, but I don't know. St. Thomas.
SPEAKER_07:I did go to uh St. Mary's, actually, in San Antonio for two years. You did?
SPEAKER_05:But your your your real job is as a kind of an engineer type, right?
SPEAKER_07:I I am. I am a systems engineer by trade. And I am uh essentially doing uh oh Lord, I don't even know what I do. We're we're building a residential building down here in Guatemala, and I'm also starting a new business, which I can tell you guys about later, but that's what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_05:Wow, starting a new business. Fantastic. Well, I'd love to know more and more about that. Um at some at some point down the road. Now see, Father Mario keeps pointing to Miranda who's on the board.
SPEAKER_08:Because I like it. Oh, and now it's getting just a little bit more, Miranda.
SPEAKER_05:See, earlier I told her to turn it down because there we go.
SPEAKER_08:Now that's fine.
SPEAKER_05:But I'm gonna tell her to turn it down. No, yes, it's too loud. No, you're hurting my ears. I you don't care, do you?
SPEAKER_08:You hurt my ears by what you say. Okay, David is our show director.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I'm the show director, and you know, I I got back from from Eastern Europe, and uh one of the big events of the week was the the shooting, the shooting death of Charlie Kirk. Some people are saying assassination.
SPEAKER_08:No, it's an assassination.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I think it probably is.
SPEAKER_08:What else could it be?
SPEAKER_05:Well, I know people are pushing back on that.
SPEAKER_08:What are they what else? What's the alternative?
SPEAKER_05:It's just uh random show. I I don't know. No, it it really was intentional. It was targeted.
SPEAKER_08:It's an assassination.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So the assassination of uh Charlie Kirk this past week in Utah, and uh it just it it triggered in me the desire to talk about political violence tonight. And and we could we could broaden that to say violence in general, because right before that this event, this this horrible event in Utah, there was another horrible event in North Carolina.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, the stabbing of that young girl.
SPEAKER_05:There was a young girl from uh Yana? Uh I'm I have her name here in a minute. I'll I'll pick it up.
SPEAKER_07:But um wonderful Irina Zarutska. Stabbed in uh in a rail, in a light rail.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, on a light rail train, and the fellow was sitting behind her and uh got up. You know, she just she was going to work, she came home. I mean, she was coming home from work, just minding her own business, sat down on the train, and here he was, um, sitting behind her, and for reasons not even God knows, I don't think, you know, he he he stabbed her in the neck and she bled out right there, and uh there was no no chance for her. So a random act of violence. She just happened to be in the wrong place at the sitting in front of the wrong person who had who had uh a lot of prior convictions, prior prior arrests and prior convictions, and who had been let out, let out, let out. Um and and then, you know, there were questions of mental health. There's all at any rate, the p the point is that there this seems to be a season that we're in of a lot of violence. And we had two assassination attempts on President Trump uh w when he was candidate Trump in this last last election. And I yeah, I'm I'm just wondering what kind of moment that we're living through and what is to be a Christian response to political violence in particular tonight. Let me give you let me give you a kind of a working definition. What is I I guess we could we could begin by saying what is political violence? And here's a definition. It's the use of force or coercion by groups or by states to achieve a political aim.
SPEAKER_08:But what about individuals?
SPEAKER_05:Well, the individual could well belong to a group, not necessarily coordinated group, but has been radicalized by a group, has been uh trained by m clearly that that he seems to have been a loan shooter, but that may may not prove to be the case. It might have been several people who were involved, who knows down the road. We don't we don't have enough information yet. But the fact is that this fellow who came up in a in a Republican home, apparently, his parents were Republican, had begun to change. He he was he was he he had made he had made the decision to get the rifle, put the rifle in space in the in the place, and then to to go and assassinate or to attempt to assassinate Charlie Kirk. And and and he he he had a he had he had the shot. And it and it killed him, and it was a w one hit one shot, which is all it takes with for the 30 aught six. That's a big caliber weapon. And a 30 aught six at a hundred yards velocity is incredible. Any s any sort of shot to the head and it's pretty much over at that point.
SPEAKER_08:I heard a distinction that I think that I found very useful. Uh the one who gave me this distinction was Ben Shapiro. But he said, Imagine that uh that the um uh the pol the body politic is a cauldron or uh you know a pot. And underneath that pot there is a small fire. The more you stoke that fire, and the bigger it gets, the hotter the pot gets, and the more it bubbles. And the more it the more the fire goes up, the hotter the the the bubbles the the more of the boiling in the water. And sooner or later the water the water will boil over. The the the fire itself did not um make any any part of that or any bubble of that water fall over. But the ones who stoked it did hit heat the water enough for the b water to boil and to come over. Uh Charlie I mean uh um Ben Shapiro called the the the the fire underneath the body politic and especially the left wing. Not all Democrats but the left wing. And he says that what they did is they maybe they didn't pull the trigger, but they did everything they could to create the permission structures for in other words they increased the heat by their their um rhetoric that they the the water in the body body politic began to bubble and some of it began to spill over. I found that the uh understanding of the whole idea of creating permission structures because in society you have permission structures that uh are um that are established by all kinds of different things. And also um a what what's the opposite of permission?
SPEAKER_05:Um, forbidding structures.
SPEAKER_08:And I think he uh Ben Ben Shapiro is correct on that. That uh if you look at the at the violence, the political violence that has been created, also maybe not directly political, but it for example, i it is the left that is responsible. The man who killed that girl in him. Why would I blame the left? Because they refuse to convict people and they refuse to put them in jail. And that is a left-wing understanding of permission that establishes the permission permission structure. Okay, the assassination attempts on on President Trump, the killing of Charlie Kirk. And if you go back to all the different um attempts or violences, that they are um they are and have been persons who have been benefited or have reacted to the left-wing permission structures that have been foisted on society. There's quite a few, for example, um uh uh shootings that have been done by the trans community. That doesn't mean that because you're trans, you're going to commit violence. But that does mean that a lot of people who are troubled and have other problems think that, oh, they can blame it on trans and they can try they can try and trans, and then they find out they're disappointed because it didn't fix anything, and they begin blaming society because you are still oppressing me since the trans thing didn't work. Okay, and so they blame society and enough enough to the point that they become become angry and they wish to kill the people because they blame. Because this whole idea of violent that speech is now violence because you are erasing me. So having an opinion that is contrary to yours, especially on on much of the left, is to have an opinion that erases my being. It's not just an opinion now, it's my self-identity. And that means you're attacking me. And if you're attacking me, I have a right to defend myself. And so if you look at all the policies of the left, they encourage, not that, not that they go and say kill, but they establish the environment that gives rise to the permission structure that has the bubbling over that is the murders that are going on.
SPEAKER_05:And I think about that the murder of that uh the executive with United Health.
SPEAKER_08:The same thing.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and and the response to that, which surprised the heck out of me.
SPEAKER_08:That's right.
SPEAKER_05:That that that kind even even though people might really have issues with insurance companies, the fact that they would be celebrating.
SPEAKER_08:And not only that, it's right now 70 over 70 percent of people on the left agree with that the the the proposition that it is okay periodically that you kill the uh the the members uh that are obstructing you. Uh 25 percent of right wing do that, but 70 percent of the left does it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. As a Christian, what would you say? What percentage allows you to have the right to do that?
SPEAKER_08:I I I I would rather say what circumstances would allow you to have the the right. And let me tell you why I'm saying that. Because during World War II uh there was a whole uh the Vatican was involved in quite a bit of espionage with um members of the English government. Okay, uh I'll I'll talk a bit more.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, let's come back to this because I think that the because that's this is a a longer story, I think, than that. And Rudy, we're gonna come back to you two at the big bottom of the hour as well in just a few minutes.
SPEAKER_08:No, no, Rudy's not here to talk, he's just here to listen.
SPEAKER_05:He's just here to Okay. All right.
SPEAKER_04:AM 1070, the answer. Salem News Channel. It's America's fastest growing conservative TV network. It's an absolute crazy day. Home to the largest lineup of free speech champions anywhere, delivering in-depth insight and unapologetic opinion on today's biggest news stories. Americans aren't gonna put up with this anymore. SNC brings you the news that matters, told with integrity and clarity. Watch Salem News Channel free, 24-7 on your television. Stream now on Samsung TV Plus channel 1177.
SPEAKER_02:This is David Santrella, CEO of Salem Media. It is with profound sorrow that we mourn the tragic passing of Charlie Kirk following the horrific assassination attack at Utah Valley University. It was a cowardly and vile act of violence carried out to silence one of America's boldest Christian conservative voices. Our hearts are shattered for Charlie's wife, family, friends, colleagues, and the countless people whose lives he touched through his words, his work, and his unwavering commitment to faith and country. Charlie was more than a broadcaster. He was a fearless defender of truth and a faithful servant of God. His assassination was not just an attack on Charlie. It was an attack on free speech and on the values Charlie championed every day. Salem Media extends its most heartfelt condolences to the Kirk family, Charlie's friends, and the millions of Americans and people across the world who are grieving this senseless loss. I'm Dave Central.
SPEAKER_04:The Second Amendment does not apply to semi-autorifles, nor does it apply to bolt action rifles, pistols, or revolvers. Hey, the Second Amendment restricts government. The technology of the firearm is irrelevant. The restrictions on government remain the same, regardless of the firearm. The Second Amendment was not written to grant permission to citizens to own and bear firearms. It forbids government's interference and the right to keep and bear arms. Period. Supporting the Second Amendment. This is the big Ten 70, the answer.
SPEAKER_05:Priestminister Rabbi normally, but the rabbi's not here, but instead we've just replaced him with a millennial. So I'm just kidding. Just kidding. Now you were talking earlier before we left. We're talking about political violence tonight. We're talking about a kind of a Christian response, Christian thinks, uh thinking about political violence. And um given given the events of this past week. And you were mentioning what was happening at the end, or not at the end, at the beginning of the Second World War, I suppose. In the middle of the world, okay. Yeah. With uh with the Vatican. The Vatican, yeah.
SPEAKER_08:Well, uh by the way, if any of you want to read an excellent, excellent, excellent, excellent book about the World World War II and the Vatican and Pope Pius XII. Get yourself the book called Church of Spies. I can't remember who it's by. I have it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I've got it too as well. It's it's a great book. I agree with you. I read it about four or five years ago.
SPEAKER_08:Church of Spies. Uh it almost reads like a novel, but it's actually a real uh uh real event. Uh no, what I was saying is that, you know, the the Vatican gets accused of a lot of uh, you know, allowing Hitler to, you know, to uh um operate the way he was operating without necessarily uh saying something. But the Vatican uh I'm not gonna get into it too much, but the Vatican decided early on that since the Vatican has no army, has no ability, the only thing we have is moral agency. And and Hitler was looking for a reason to uh invade the Vatican. And uh the Vatican and Pope Pius the Twelfth made the decision that it was better for them to go underneath the table, and they were helping Jews all over the place. Um they were giving out they were giving out b fake baptism certificates, they were doing all kinds of stuff to try and hide Jews. There were many Jews that were hidden in the Vatican. And uh Pius the Twelfth understood that the more he spoke against Hitler publicly, the more people died. And that was he he sa he experienced that happening. But one of the things that they were doing, that the Vatican was doing, was ask acting as intermediaries between um people of generals, especially people in the German army who were already against Hitler, and they were uh uh dealing with them uh and with spies from the uh from the from England and the United States. And there was a lot of planning on how to um get take out the people who were doing the war. And there was a lot of discussion about killing Hitler. And uh that in by the way, in in theology that's called regicide. Uh regicide regist means king. And so the killing of a of a uh of a uh reigning king. Reigning king or something like that. So the question then became became well, is it even appropriate for the Pope to be uh dealing passing secrets and giving quarter to people who were who were going to do that. Uh and uh there was really a lot of a lot of um how should I say uh per tra discussion about what was just. But I think ultimately the question is justice. There's a s a d there's a definition that I like to use because see in the Catholic tradition we are not ultimately against violence. Um as a matter of fact, the Ten Commandments do not say do not kill, they say do not murder. Uh and the issue is uh the innocence of the person that you are killing is murder. Um killing in self-defense, for example, is not against uh church uh teaching. But I I like this example, I mean this this definition that I I read somewhere, but uh um and it's this violence when justified is not an option but a sad duty.
SPEAKER_05:Richard John Newhouse.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, Richard John Newhouse. Now now let me say it again. Okay Violence when justified is not an option, but a sad duty. The question is when is it justified? That is the whole thing that has the where it hangs. Um because when I'm sure that this guy who killed uh Charlie Kirk was making up some way or another where it was justified for him to do that. Okay. The question is, can the whole idea of the decision for justice be perverted? And of course, in his case, it was definitely pervented.
SPEAKER_05:And and in other cases it can be as well. That's right.
SPEAKER_08:That's right. So when when um when Charlie Kirk was killed, um that was political violence. But the political violence at that moment was not justified because in no way was Charlie in any way um fomenting violence or trying to get people killed. He was arguing on principles. Charlie I mean Charlie. Rudy?
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, uh I know we have to go to a break here in a second, but I I think that's kind of the problem though. Even though Charlie was very healthy focused, because of the uh ideology that you were talking about earlier, really we call him. I mean for a very long time, for about three years, really. I was finishing uh financial degree in the turning point chapters all over the US enough. And it was because of this, because of this type of rhetoric, because it was it was kind of a throwback to what universities should be about. Open dialogue of ideas.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah. We gotta go to a break. Um and Rudy wants you to continue when we come back to the case. This is K N T H 1070 and we'll be right back.
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SPEAKER_05:Hey, welcome back to a show of faith here on AM ten seventy The Answer. Our colleague um this past week, Charlie Kirk was sh shot to death in Utah. And in an act of really what is political violence, political assassination. Let me before you you you could go on, Rudy, how did you're you're in Guatemala? How how is this reported in Guatemala? What kind of response was that was with that?
SPEAKER_07:Uh you know, there's a couple, it's been uh um there's some conservatives here in Guatemala that are quite patriotic, and I think you kind of find it really country. Similar to the to the to the kind of response you've seen in the States? Just not as personable, maybe I would say as as you would see in the States, just because of kind of the impact Charlie did have on on the politics of the United States. I mean, his his it's just it's just horrible.
SPEAKER_05:Really, it was it was really broader, you know, it's really broader than um than the United States. I mean, it recently he was over in the UK and did uh in a sense the same sort of debate structure, conversation structure with people who are professors at I think it was Cambridge, one of those places like that. And and even though they didn't agree with him, they still admired his ability that this 31-year-old guy had for with no college. With no college, yeah.
SPEAKER_07:No college.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, this guy this guy was smart as a smart as a whipper. Uh I remember hearing that growing up. I I have no idea what a whipper is.
SPEAKER_08:No, smart as a whip.
SPEAKER_05:A smart as a whip.
unknown:A whipper, a whipper snapper.
SPEAKER_05:Whipper snapper, okay. That's what it is. All right. So okay.
SPEAKER_07:Well yeah. No, I wanted I wanted to I wanted to mention something because I think it's something that that um I'm gonna give some facts and some some some statistics, if you will. Um our our let's call them um violent deaths globally average about six or one hundred thousand people today. Okay? If you go back two, three, four hundred years, this goes up to about fifty, and in some cases up to about five hundred when there was just major, major engagements. To give you some perspective, even during the 20th century, when you look at the two world wars, only about three percent of the people um died in warfare, right? And so there's this giant world war going on, um, and only about three percent of people actually died during that warfare. So it was as much as of course it was affecting regions, but um the death told per se, I'm not saying that uh that they weren't high, of course they were, um, but they weren't as high in other times of of of history. Now, having said that, violent crimes and I would even say political crimes are declining in most developed nations, which they have been uh for some time now, right? Now I'm saying developed nations, right? Um what we would maybe consider the first world today. And there was an interesting peer study done just this year, actually, that tracks uh the last couple of years, and it says that most Americans have actually zero willingness to endorse or participate in political violence. Okay, so they really don't have an appetite. So I guess what I'm seeing is that there's this of course there's deaths and there's murders and and you know, there's all these things do happen, but they're they're a definite decline. Now, when we have this type of event, something called televised, I think this is why these types of things so it's it's kind of twofold. I think there's there's lots of these types of violent crimes happening. As much as the media wants to tell you that there isn't, that there is, and everything's so in a how do I say hell in a time basket, right? Um the the less frequent violent acts seem to be more heinously violent, if that makes any sense. And they seem to be because of their technology captured in real time. So so they seem quite violent, right? I mean, if you see the video of this of this young lady getting stabbed in the uh in um in the transit line, it's just absolutely horrific. And what's even worse, nobody does anything. Right? It's just she's just sitting there bleeding out to death, and it's just absolutely horrific. So so we're being bombarded with these images that are just absolutely inhumane. And I think that's what that's what's kind of being how do I say it? It's what's kind of being fed more towards, right? So so it's an interesting thing, and and and I want to end it, and I know I've I'm kind of jumping up and down, but this is something you asked earlier, um, David, about what it is to be a Christian during these times, and and this is something that Charlie Kirk said. He said, to be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you. So I think for for us and as Christians, even though one in seven Christians globally is in direct line of persecution, there's way more persecutions just in Africa. Thirty-five Christians are killed a day. A day. Okay, there's a lot of violence that isn't really talked about, which is what Charlie really did speak out about. Um but I think it's it still means it still means learning to forgive in a in a way that that's peaceful. But there will be times and as we see now, right, where where this what is Bateman, what did you call it? This this sad the sad act that we have to do.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, right?
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, that's about those men.
SPEAKER_08:The definition is violence when justified is not an option but a sad duty.
SPEAKER_07:It's a sad duty. So uh as a Christian, I we don't want to engage in that sad duty. You know, it's not something that we look forward to. Nobody wants to I mean, this man leaves behind two kids and a wife. This is just absolutely a horrendous thing, but the reality is that it happens all over the girl world in Ukraine, in Gaza. And so it's just the impact of these images, too. So I think it's there's a there's a lot of things going on at play here, right? It's it's technology.
SPEAKER_05:Um well the other thing, too, is that Charlie Kirk became a household name through the means of technology. I mean, it's it's YouTube, it's it's uh social media, these kind of things. So people got to know him, not because he was on nightly television or he was a sports hero, but because he was really good at what he did, and that was engaging people to think and to think deeply and to ask questions and to and to be clear about what you're you're saying.
SPEAKER_08:He was kind of like a modern-day Socrates. You know, yeah, in ways, yeah. Because he would he would go around asking, well, what do you mean by that? And and he asked people to defend what they were doing, and that's what it just made them angry. Remember what they did to Socrates.
SPEAKER_05:Well, that's right. Put him to death.
SPEAKER_08:Put him to death.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:So it's not surprising. And uh any anybody who has who has stood up and done what they thought was right, and they're in a moment in which the permission structure is saying you are you are authentically have permission to kill this person, is it's got to be aware that they're risking their lives. And those are the heroes of today. Yeah. The ones who've risked their lives.
SPEAKER_05:And and and here there's a great commercial in this station that describes him as an American hero. One of our listeners, uh uh, Tom, said in this. He said, one thing I realized when I thought about the left's absurd claim that Kirk was hateful, he wanted to impose his values on everyone, is that people on the right generally speak somewhere and invite other people to show up. People on the left generally go into the streets and screen their values to people who mostly just want to go to do their jobs or go to their appointments. So which of these he says is an imposition? Interesting question. He goes on to say, I do miss Dennis Prager in times like this. Yeah. As do I. Dennis Prager just had such has such great wisdom, and he's not able to be on the air right now because of his tragic fall fall last year. Well, I know we have to go to break here in just a minute. When we come back, what I'd like to do is transition a little bit away from the kind of idea of political uh violence away to toward what I hear other people saying, and that Charlie Kirk himself is actually a martyr. And sometimes there's this whole idea is that the seed of the blood of the martyrs is the seat of the church. That in fact what he did and what he said he was what we cared about, he wanted to be known as a man who was who stood up for his faith, which is what he did. And he tried to bring the Christian faith into conversations every day with people.
SPEAKER_08:That's right.
SPEAKER_05:And so I want to talk about the idea of moving from political to from assassination to to martyrdom at that point.
SPEAKER_08:Okay, this is 1070 KNTH, and we will be right back.
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SPEAKER_12:Johnny. He's got something like he's home. Let's come to the big But I just sit in the way. Concentrate on dramatic. And I pray that somebody loves me. And together we will see how lovely heaven will be. And together we will see how lovely heaven will be.
SPEAKER_05:Hey, welcome back to a show of faith here on AMTN70. The answer. Our own Johnny Angel is sitting here. Um just enjoying that song.
SPEAKER_08:That's my favorite song from the 60s. I was in love with her.
SPEAKER_05:Not with Carpenter. Not with Karen Carpenter.
SPEAKER_08:Shelly Fabre.
SPEAKER_05:Shelly Fabre.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah. When she sang that in my My Three Sons. No, was it My Three Sons? No, it wasn't My Three Sons. I can't remember when what show Shelly Fabre was. The Donna Reed Show.
SPEAKER_05:Donna Reed.
SPEAKER_08:The Donna Reed Show, that's what it was. She sang that, and I I watched her singing, and I had to imagine that I was Johnny Angel.
SPEAKER_05:You were Johnny Angel. Yeah. Because I was in love with her. Okay.
SPEAKER_08:So for marry me, that's why I became a priest, you know.
SPEAKER_05:The church's gain is her loss, for sure. We're talking about political violence tonight. We're talking about the death of Charlie Kirk. One of the things that I've heard this week is uh description, and I'm curious what you guys think about this, the description of of Kirk's killing, silencing as one of martyrdom. And I think one of the reasons that they do this, that they said this, is uh not that we live at a time of a lot of martyr modern martyrs in our country, but there are martyrs in the world. I think we always have to accept that. But the fact is that he was very bold for his faith. He talked about a lot. He wore Jesus saves t-shirts, you know, to his rallies. I mean, it was it was very much a part of his message. Uh he he didn't just do politics. He did he did faith, he did values, he did his own faith, and he urged other people to find faith in Christ as well. And to some degree to shut that up to shut that off is an act of martyrdom, it seems to me.
SPEAKER_08:I think you're correct. I think you're correct. Because he was not only talking about the politics, he was also talking about Christian politics. He was approaching politics as a Christian. Okay, as a Christian. So I I would say and he knew that he was in danger. And he had a lot of security, actually, but they the security wasn't covering the rooftops. Yeah. So that's Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:He was he was uh v very vulnerable in in that particular kind of setting. Um but probably didn't think about the fact that he had to worry about any kind of attack coming like pre but like at Butler, Pennsylvania, with President Trump coming from the rooftop and having Secret Service.
SPEAKER_08:Well this guy I mean this guy shot at Charlie from the rooftop also. So I think they're gonna have to all uh anybody who duh uh does any speaking from now on has to cover rooftops. You know, because that's where all the assassinations have been coming. Well not all, but uh the two two of the great significant ones have been coming from that.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah. So Rudy, what do you think about m the idea of martyrdom?
SPEAKER_07:So within Catholic tradition, it's like the the formal recognition of of martyrdom normally ends up in the process of canonization which is when we the Catholic Church recognizes them officially and declares them a faint. Um so now when I when I look at the so a martyr strictly speaking, right, it's somebody who suffers death because of hatred of their faith. Uh hated for their faith. So when when I when I think about that, I would I think I would call Charlie Kirk a martyr. He was very open about Christianity. He was very open about Jesus, speaking about Jesus, dialoguing about Jesus, his wife was Catholic, um his kids were Catholic Sorry, his wife is Catholic because she's so happy. Um and their marriage had actually just been onto the process where it's accepted within the Catholic Church. I'm not he was actually canceled to go on bishop uh Robert Bishop Barry Podcast in uh in like a few days. So who knows? Uh um part of me thinks that Charlie Kirk probably would have even converted to uh Catholicism.
SPEAKER_08:But by the trick is spoken like a true Catholic.
SPEAKER_07:The rabbi might be a lost cause, but um yeah, but I would I would say he I mean if if you think about somebody dying for what they believe and trying to live the values in which they believe, of course we're not privy to every single thing he said, or that's just between him and God, right? And frankly, I think I train uh with with like with all people, but what he tried to do, he really tried to spread this concept of open dialogue, non-violent open dialogue, and and in a world full of hate, in a world that hate the truth. I don't know. I mean they did it to Jesus, right? And he came down and followed truth, and he was killed in the most important manner, so I thought it was expected, right? I think I thought um the other day sometimes we think we finally avoid right when I think about your thing. And of course he wasn't the most perfect human being, there's a lot of things that he did wrong, but if you think if you think about the effect that his words and his words had after his death his examination. I mean I don't I don't think he could have thought about it, or maybe he only dreamed of it. And I just hope that the thinking and taking the Charlie for it, that people grab the good and just roll with it as much as they can, right? To kind of bring into that light that the truth which he was trying to speak, which he was murdered for, which I consider I mean he was accascinated. He was he was killed. He was fascinated.
SPEAKER_05:Like Charlie Kirk, like uh MLK or Luther King Jr. Uh the p people people like that, when they are assassinated, when they're taken out, as it were, their their message somehow i i is not silenced. In other words, I wonder how many future Charlie Kirks there will be. And I don't mean I mean I think I think it will I think it will amplify his voice in a way. And I I think that there are a lot of people who are who were were were not necessarily in Charlie's camp, but who saw what happened to him and will be drawn now to him as a person and perhaps maybe persuaded, persuaded by his his arguments, and they'll go back on YouTube and they'll watch these things over and over and they'll begin thinking about he always said he he really wanted to talk about reality, you know, not subjectivity, you know. He wanted to talk about these things.
SPEAKER_08:You know, I I'm gonna look forward to seeing what Trump does, because Trump was a good friend of Charlie Kirk.
SPEAKER_15:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:And uh he's gonna do something, he's gonna name something after him, or he's gonna um make it uh a holiday or something like that. Something's gonna happen because there's a there's a a way they he he will be looking for a way to uh kind of immortalize Charlie Kirk.
SPEAKER_05:To honor him. And and and there are people who've made the case, I don't know how credible it is, that Trump may not have been able to be um re-elected had it not been for the work of Charlie Kirk among the young people, because a lot of the young people are those who helped turn the this last election around.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, I I d I don't know how much he influenced, but he certainly has. And I've been hearing quite a few people and on uh on YouTube and on on different m media that are um are leaving the left after this.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:Um now please understand when I say leading the left, uh I uh I think that the Democratic Party is um not all Democrats are left, but I think all left are Democrats. So I think that that that's something that I I don't know the future of the effects of this thing, but I think there that the left is going to lose a lot, and I think the Democrats are going to get a heavy duty blame, mainly because of the the whole idea of permission structures, that the Democratic Party has at least been highly complicit in establishing the permission structures that allow some crazy individuals to take that all the way to a political assassination.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. Well, it'll it'll be interesting to see what happens next. I know we gotta go tonight.
SPEAKER_08:Next week it's me.
SPEAKER_05:That's you're the man.
SPEAKER_08:I'm the man next week. So you've been listening to KNTH 1070, uh, where minister, priest, and rabbi talk about events in the news with you and with each other. So during this week, keep us, please, in your prayers because during this whole week, you and all of you are going to be constantly in hours.
SPEAKER_04:Find us at am 1070 the answer.com. Download our apps, stream us 247, K N T H and K277 D E F M, Houston.