A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
October 19, 2025 Gratitude Is Not Optional
What if gratitude isn’t a seasonal sentiment but a moral obligation that reshapes who we become? We take on a single line from the Eucharistic prayer—“It is right and just, our duty and our salvation, always and everywhere to give you thanks”—and follow it all the way from Sunday liturgy into everyday life. With a professor, a priest, a millennial engineer, and a rabbi at the table, we examine why failing to thank the Giver isn’t just impolite; it’s untrue, unjust, and spiritually dangerous.
We begin with the simple claim that gratitude is “right.” If every breath and moment is a gift, silence isn’t neutral—it’s wrong. From there we dig into “just,” drawing on the classical idea that justice gives each their due. If God is Creator, acknowledgment is due. We talk about the sting of ingratitude, the way entitlement blinds us like a goldfish that can’t see the water, and how the Eucharist itself is thanksgiving that trains our hearts to notice grace.
Then we tackle “duty,” pushing back on the modern impulse to ask, “What do I get out of it?” Commanded thanksgiving doesn’t drain love; it sustains it. Duty carries us to worship when feelings lag and, paradoxically, often returns the joy we thought we lacked.
Finally, we explore why thanksgiving is tied to “our salvation.” Ingratitude bends the soul inward and fractures the relationship with God and neighbor. Gratitude, practiced “always and everywhere,” isn’t about thanking God for evil; it’s about thanking God within every circumstance, naming mercies without romanticizing pain.
Along the way, we share morning prayers, stories about missed obligations, and practical ways to cultivate a habit of thanks that spills into justice, generosity, and hope.
If this conversation nudged you to notice even one overlooked gift today, share the episode with a friend, subscribe for more thoughtful dialogues, and leave a review telling us where you’re practicing “always and everywhere” gratitude this week.
There's something happening here, but what it is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there. Tellin me I got to beware. I think it's time we stop. Children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. But nobody's right if everybody's wrong, young people speak in their minds. I get so much resistance from behind every time we stop. Hey, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down.
SPEAKER_11:Welcome to a show of faith where a professor, priest, millennial, and rabbi discuss theology, philosophy, morality, and ethics, and anything else we feel like discussing. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at a show of faith1070 at gmail.com, a show of faith1070 at gmail.com. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard. Our priest is Father Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St. Cyril of Alexandria and then 10,000 Block of Westheimer. Hello. Our professor is David Capes, Protestant Minister and Director of Academic Programming for the Lanier Theological Library.
SPEAKER_09:Here at Accounted For.
SPEAKER_11:Rudy Kong is our millennial systems engineer and has his master's degree in theology from the University of St. Thomas.
SPEAKER_12:Howdy, howdy.
SPEAKER_11:I am Stuart Federal, retired rabbi of Congregation Sha'ar Hashaloon, the Clear Lake area of Houston, Texas. Miranda is our board operator, and she makes us sound fantastic. So welcome to a show of faith.
SPEAKER_09:I just want to make sure that the blasphemy laws are still in place.
SPEAKER_13:Is Rudy on the phone? Rudy?
unknown:I am.
SPEAKER_11:Ah, Rudy Kung, our millennial systems engineer and master's degree in theology from the University of St. Thomas.
SPEAKER_12:Howdy, howdy.
SPEAKER_11:Howdy, howdy.
SPEAKER_13:Rudy, how'd you like the joke?
SPEAKER_12:I mean, it's good, not your best word.
SPEAKER_13:Okay. Today I am the show director. And let me introduce the topic because there's no article to read. I will be providing the fodder.
SPEAKER_11:The fodder?
SPEAKER_13:The fodder.
SPEAKER_11:Because you're the fodder.
SPEAKER_13:I am the fodder.
SPEAKER_11:The fodder who's the federal federal federal federal five.
SPEAKER_13:I am providing the fodder who's the fodder.
SPEAKER_11:Right.
SPEAKER_13:Okay. Now, there's going to be two parts. But the first part, I would like to quote to you part of a the prayer that we say at the beginning of the Eucharist. When you see the Eucharist has two parts. It has the liturgy of the Word, the Bible readings and the homily. And then the second part, the liturgy of the Eucharist, when the actual Lord's Supper is celebrated. Now, don't worry, this will be had a Well I have a lot of questions about that, but go ahead. Okay.
SPEAKER_11:Not germane to tonight.
SPEAKER_13:Okay. There's a sentence that occurs. See, in the Catholic Church, the priest has a choice on a regular Sunday basis of regularly four different what are called Eucharistic prayers. They're prayers that are already written down before we get to the point of on the night he was betrayed, Jesus took the okay. And the there's a sentence that has always fascinated me. And the sentence is is this it is right and just it is our duty and our salvation always and everywhere to give you thanks, Almighty and ever living God.
SPEAKER_11:That's reflected in Scripture.
SPEAKER_13:Okay. It is right and just. It is our duty and our salvation. I would like the reaction for the first 15, 20 minutes of the show, to those four words. Why have those words, what do those four words say to you about why we should be grateful thanking God? So, first of all, for example, why is it right? Why do we have to say it's right? Why why would we say that if we didn't, if we said it's right, it must mean that it's wrong not to do it. So why do we thank why do we say it is right and it would be wrong not to thank God?
SPEAKER_11:I kind of also think that there's another nuance to the word right.
SPEAKER_13:Okay.
SPEAKER_11:And it has to do with what is just.
SPEAKER_13:Okay, but let's let's go straight first. Why was it why would it be wrong not to do it?
SPEAKER_11:Mario, if I came over to your house or parsonage, whatever you call it, uh, and I gave you a wrapped present, what would be your first response?
SPEAKER_13:Thank you.
SPEAKER_11:As I give it to you.
SPEAKER_13:Right.
SPEAKER_11:Okay.
SPEAKER_13:Or I want you to go ahead. I could say you shouldn't have.
SPEAKER_11:Oh you you should have. Okay. Once I've given it to you and you take it into the house and you unwrap it and you look inside the box and you see that it's something you really, really like, wouldn't you also again say thank you? Yes. Here's the question. But but here's my question then. Yes. Which of the two thank yous, when I hand it to you and you don't know what's in it, and the second thank you when you've already opened the box and you know it's in it, which is the more uh no the more d truthful, for lack of a better term. Second one. Second one. When when we know, acknowledge, understand, feel the gifts from God, our natural instinct should be to say thank you. If we don't, no differently than if I gave you a present, no differently if you opened it up and saw that was something you needed and didn't say thank you, that would be something we would consider wrong.
SPEAKER_13:I would agree with you, but here's what I the reason I brought it up, and I brought it up in a in a couple of homilies already. I really f believe, and um judge actually, that we moderns, quote, in postmodern, whatever it is, that we're like children, children maybe say a six-year-old, seven-year-old child, who says to his parents, Mom, I'm leaving home. I don't want to live here anymore. He packs his suitcase and he leaves. And he doesn't take, he doesn't study it, he doesn't ask the questions, where am I gonna live? Who's gonna give me food? Right, who's gonna do anything? The other part, the other comparison is the teenager. You see these teenagers playing around and uh, you know, frolicking and everything and having a great time, and they have no sense. They think everything is just a given. They're given.
SPEAKER_11:Entitlement.
SPEAKER_13:Entitlement. Okay. I have a sense So do a lot of adults. Yeah. Well, I have a lot of sense that modern people think that the world that we live in is normal. If you ask many teenagers or m a lot of modern people, are you really thankful to God for life, for everything that you have? I think most people would say, well, kinda, but they don't really mean it, because they never really think about it. To the world, to them, the world as it is and our society as it is is normal is a given. So the whole issue com comes out to be we are not grateful as a society. We are not.
SPEAKER_11:Nope.
SPEAKER_13:So something is wrong. Something is wrong because we are not grateful. David Rudy comments.
SPEAKER_09:Oh gosh, uh really thought that's a very thoughtful way of thinking about it. Um I think we we want to be thankful in a way. Um we we understand that there's benefits to being thankful is right to be thankful going back to the right. But I don't think we think I don't think we think much about these things. We we we take a breath of air and we expect that it should be there. We have a fine meal, we expect it to be there. Um we have a a roof over our heads, we expect it to be there. So I don't think we think a lot about the things that you're that you're we're thinking about here that we're talking about here. We just expect it to be as it is.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah, and I want to get something straight. We're not discussing here to come up with any kind of uh, you know, discovery. All I want to do is for those who are listening to us, I want to bring back our attention to gratitude. Because I don't think we as a country and we as a culture and we as individuals and we as individuals are really grateful.
SPEAKER_11:I would agree.
SPEAKER_13:And so we're not I I don't intend to make any controversial points. The whole point is for us to kind of look at the need to reaffirm our gratefulness.
SPEAKER_11:Isn't that also what the psalmist was talking about when he wrote that knowledge of God is the beginning of wisdom? Can you really be wise? Can you really Can you be wise if you don't begin with the acknowledgement of God and express gratefulness? No, you can't.
SPEAKER_13:You can't re because we you we think that the reality that we live in is a given. It is a given.
SPEAKER_11:Right.
SPEAKER_13:And so that makes us entitled. We're kind of like I love the the the the comparison that um uh the I I'm forgetting the guy's name, the guy who wrote um the air we breathe. And uh he he he wrote we are like goldfish in in an aquarium. We take for granted the water.
SPEAKER_11:If we even know it's there.
SPEAKER_13:We yeah, but we take it for granted, we take for granted that everybody in the world has water. Everybody is like this, and we don't realize the amount of work that it takes to maintain the aquarium. Rudy.
SPEAKER_12:I think you're quite following reality. That's correct.
SPEAKER_13:And you forget and we forget the fact that we are contingent beings, meaning we don't have to exist. We don't have to exist. Now let's go to the second one. It is right and just meaning that being ungrateful is an injustice. Why would you say that that's important?
SPEAKER_11:Wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_13:That not being grateful is injustice.
SPEAKER_11:It goes back to my first analogy, in my opinion, that's when we're given a gift the there are a lot of synonyms. Justice, fair, right, fitting, appropriate is to say thank you. And if you've ever given somebody something, a gift, and they don't, you feel slighted, you feel insulted, you feel hurt. But that's the injustice. So what is an injustice?
SPEAKER_13:What is it what is justice?
SPEAKER_11:What's right and fair and what do you I'm not sure what you mean?
SPEAKER_13:In other words, what why would you say what would you say something is just? But think about that, because I know it takes your brain a little bit.
SPEAKER_11:And it's only right and fair and just that we have corruption.
SPEAKER_13:That's right because yes. We will be right back.
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SPEAKER_13:And together we will see Welcome back to the show of Well, yeah. Okay, let's go on to the next word. It is right, and the next word is just.
SPEAKER_11:Yes. So when I made my comment about right is justice, I that's erroneous.
SPEAKER_13:No, no, I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_11:No, because what it's right is doing the right thing. Justice is actually something else. But if the word's already there, then the word's already there.
SPEAKER_13:The interesting part is that the Vatican, when they put out this Eucharistic prayer, all the Eucharistic prayers that are said every single Sunday at Mass, every single Sunday, all of them have it is right and just. It is our duty and our salvation, always and everywhere, to give you Almighty God thanks. Now notice the amount of emphasis they're putting on there.
SPEAKER_11:Right.
SPEAKER_13:And and I want to discuss the whole idea of why would anyone feel the need to pound that in using those words and not only Well, the reason they have to pound it in is because we take things so much for granted. I agree with you.
SPEAKER_11:Yes.
SPEAKER_13:But why now let's let's go in a different order now. Rudy, you were gonna get first crack at it. Why is it just? It is right and just. Would then that imply that not giving thanks to God is an injustice.
SPEAKER_12:You know, I think if if you look at the classical arithmetic meaning of justice, it means surrender to each what is to do. Surrender to each what is to do. What is when you think about it? It's not necessarily about you know what we think of the world, but it's more about giving the creator a proper acknowledgement because he gives you that acknowledgement being the creator.
SPEAKER_13:Okay.
SPEAKER_09:Yeah, I I I think I think part of it, I mean, I think I'll think all these are overlapping ideas, overlapping metaphors. I don't think anyone stands alone.
SPEAKER_13:No, really.
SPEAKER_09:Which is also a word that is sometimes translated grace. But eukari means to give thanks. So it is a recognition, and going back to what uh Rudy said, it is a recognition of the gift. And the recognition of a gift, a recognition of a gift is a just thing. It is unjust not to recognize a gift. It is unjust.
SPEAKER_13:You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_09:So I think I think yeah.
SPEAKER_13:Go ahead.
SPEAKER_09:No, I I just think it's unjust when you receive a gift to and and and not right to recognize the gift and to say thank you for it. And if we understand it properly, as as Christian, Christianity looks at Thanksgiving as a practice, not necessarily as an attitude that you have. But it's a practice, it's a practice that you cultivate. So you it you you we don't always feel thanks thanksgiving, you know. Um, but it's not so much a uh feeling as it is a command.
SPEAKER_13:You know, that's going to be it's going to be very, very apropos. I want to follow that up when we come back, because the next word, it is right and just it is our duty. Notice, we're gonna be talking about our duty. So uh Rabbi?
SPEAKER_11:What?
SPEAKER_13:Well, uh you're just. Yeah, in about one minute.
SPEAKER_11:All right. So I think of the word just so is right and just. Right. Okay. And to me, there's a relationship between the word justice and the word judgment. In other words, there is a process that we have to go through that takes a look at what we have, what we know, uh all the things that we're talking about for which we need to be grateful and make a judgment of it. So I think that when it says it's right and just, that there has to be not just the knowledge that it's the right thing to do, a good thing to do, but also there's a judgment of the situation you're in. And I think that it it requires acknowledgement of it.
SPEAKER_13:You know, it's interesting, and we'll get into this. I want to get into this when we come back to the next word duty.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_13:But here's the interesting part. Do you realize that in the Catholic Church, a willful decision not to go to Mass is considered a mortal sin?
SPEAKER_11:The willful decision not to go to Mass.
SPEAKER_13:Is considered a mortal sin. So we'll come come back because that's the Catholic Church saying something very interesting. Okay. Some people we we talk about going to church these days, and going to church these days, they say, Oh, yeah, did you go to church? Yeah, no, no. But in the Catholic Church, the willful understanding of not going to church, I'm not going to do it, is a mortal sin.
SPEAKER_11:It's not just a sin, but a mortal sin. Yes, correct.
SPEAKER_13:This is 1070 KNTH, and we'll be right back.
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SPEAKER_13:In the Catholic Church, the definition of a mortal sin is three things. One, it has to be something serious. Two, it has to it has to be serious matter. Second, sufficient reflection. Third, full consent of the will.
SPEAKER_11:Sufficient deflection.
SPEAKER_13:Reflection.
SPEAKER_11:Sufficient reflection.
SPEAKER_13:Full consent of the will.
unknown:Okay?
SPEAKER_11:So in order to be held culpable for it.
SPEAKER_13:Yes, to be cultivated. So if you under I think most people are not culpable of mortal sin when they don't go to church. But if they reflected, which is what the Catholic Church is trying to say, if you understand that is right and just, it is our duty and our salvation. Notice our salvation there.
SPEAKER_11:It's telling when we get to it.
SPEAKER_13:When we get to it, but notice what you're saying, you're you're actually building the case for a serious separation from God when you fail to give thanks. But let's go to the third one. It is right and just it is our duty. David, you go first this time, and then to you.
SPEAKER_09:David? Okay, let me think. Let me yeah, let me think let me think through this. I I think I think duty, duty. Um I think I do think that there is an obligation. We we're commanded to thank. To give thanks. Uh a part of our Christian uh responsibility, a part of what we are to do as Christians, is to give thanks. And so I I see it as a response to God's command. And when we uh the d the do the duty part, the the obligation, responsibility means that we are following in the commands and walking according to the teachings of Jesus. So I I would I would see it in that the obligation, uh duty, uh responsibility, those kinds of things categorize for me the same sort of a notion.
SPEAKER_13:Okay, Dave. I mean uh Rabbi?
SPEAKER_11:I see, we were talking in in the uh break here in the studio, and uh I I think that there is a relationship with the word duty with the word due. It's their due, it's God's due. And picking up on what David said, there's an obligation. That we are obligated to acknowledge the gifts of God.
SPEAKER_13:Why? Why are we obligated?
SPEAKER_11:What harm does it cause us? I don't think it's the issue of harm. I think it's the issue of benefit. I think that when a person acknowledges and recognizes that they have a gift, they've received a gift, then the acknowledgement is a benefit to the person who acknowledges it.
SPEAKER_13:Here's what the Catholic Church is saying to you that if you consciously reject giving thanks, that you are committing a sin that has imperiled your soul.
SPEAKER_11:And you've committed that sin against God, who is the one whose due as in duty to receive it. It'll make you worse.
SPEAKER_13:It will make you worse.
SPEAKER_11:Right. So but I I think that there is, like David was saying, a responsibility that we are given to acknowledge what we've what we've been given. Okay.
SPEAKER_09:But what we were saying in the I would go even further to say that we are we are definitely harmed by not getting things. Right. We are we are misshapen, we are malformed when we are instead of being formed correctly, we are being malformed by that. And I think we see that around us when you have so many people who are just taking for granted uh the good gifts that they receive, and and whatever genuflection they give towards toward Thanksgiving is very much surface and not uh soulish.
SPEAKER_13:It's pro forma.
SPEAKER_11:See, one of the things that we were talking about in the break also is the aughts. We don't have aughts. We don't have aughts. There's oblig people talk about their rights, their privileges, but they don't talk about their obligations and their responsibilities. You go to a we've said this before on the air, but you go to a hospital and the big side of the elevator, patient rights. But there's no sign that I've ever seen that says patient obligations.
SPEAKER_13:I have a friend of mine who's constantly saying we need, you know, we have the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast. We need another statue on the on the on the Pacific Coast Pacific Coast that's a statue of responsibility.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah, what would that look like?
SPEAKER_13:I don't know, but it's interesting. But it's true. We are true. We're constantly our right, our right, our right.
SPEAKER_11:It's my right, it's my privilege, this is what I have, I'm entitled. Yeah. But where's the obligations that come with that? You know, the the Spider-Man saying power has responsibilities. Yeah. Well, we are given power by God, we're given power by the gifts. Yeah. Where the r there cut there comes with that a responsibility. Yeah.
SPEAKER_13:Rudy?
SPEAKER_12:I I think it's a it's sort of a modern thing to think that duty cancels an authentic demonstration of love. And I was thinking of this thing that you say all the time, uh, Falvar about marriage, right? It's the decision to unite yourself with another regardless of how I feel.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah, the decision to unite yourself with God, to care about the good of another no matter how you feel.
SPEAKER_12:No matter how I feel. And and I think duty transcends being, right? And it's not about it's not about how you know how do I feel today, or I don't feel like really loving my wife today. I don't really feel like taking care of or going to work or providing or anything about that. It's it's about it's about a transcendent calling that we have. I mean, right? Honoring and thanksgiving. Uh an act of injustice and and what he calls a virtue, right? And and when we render to God that that worship and service that is due to him, we are participating in something that we are called to.
SPEAKER_13:You know, Rudy, uh here's what I want to say, here's another an angle at it. Most people say, I don't go to church because I don't get anything out of it. Now, listen to that. Now, here's we're talking about it is right and just right, obligations on the part of the person. But what we say is I don't get anything.
SPEAKER_11:The focus is on my right.
SPEAKER_13:David?
SPEAKER_12:Yeah. Yeah, I I I mean, I understand why people say that, and it's because they're so disconnected with an authentic understanding of what happens at math. I mean, I go there for for, of course, the community and sharing with people, but the main thing is to receive that spiritual nourishment. And if I go there, it's an act of beauty. We're gonna do something that I don't want to go to math. I don't feel like it, maybe I'm tired or whatever, whatever. But I I I get my buttons and I go there, and every single time I come out of math, I'm thankful I went. I'm thankful I went. I come out and I don't even think about feelings, but I feel better. It's a strange thing, but I also would say that it comes with it comes with that with that beauty, right? It allows God's grace to work within you, and that's sort of the unspoken or unseen I would call it miracle that happens every Sunday, right?
SPEAKER_13:David David.
SPEAKER_09:Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry about that. Sorry about that. I I had put because I was coughing a moment ago. I put it on mute. Um I was talking a minute ago about the idea that we are misshaping, mis malformed people. And I think we have a malformed society, and and a part of the evidence of that is that that statement is I I don't go to church because I don't get anything out of it, as if that is the true measure of everything that we do. Uh it shouldn't be the true measure. There are some things that we do regardless of what we get out of anything, because it is our right, it is our duty, it is our obligation, in a sense, to do that. But but Rudy's exactly right. Even when you pull yourself up out of bed, go when you don't feel like it, uh something usually happens that is uh spiritual, that is beneficial, that is uh unexpected, that is uplifting. And um so if you say, Well, I've gotta go get something out of it every time, and it's gotta be for me, for me, for me, for me, uh that just shows how misshapen we are as people, that it's all about me. You know, I I see it's gotta be about me.
SPEAKER_13:I have there's a uh uh something I read, a story I read about a young man who's getting married. A young man who's getting married, and uh he's having doubts, and he goes to have a talk with his dad, and he says, excuse me, he says to his dad, you know, dad, I I just don't know if this marriage is for me. And his dad looks at him and he says, It's not. It's not for you, it's for your wife. You are there to help her get to heaven. You it's not about you. It's about loving her. And loving her is not about you, it's about caring for her first. And I've always, you know, come found that true extremely interesting. Okay, let's go. We know we're gonna go to a break, and last boy, we're gonna get into this one.
SPEAKER_11:Well, I there I want to say something go ahead. Go ahead about duty when we come back.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah, okay. This is KNTH 1070, and we'll be right back.
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SPEAKER_13:Okay, we're coming, we're coming back. Right.
SPEAKER_11:Just real quick, because what we need to move on to the salvation part. But along with the duty, that it and it was again something that that David mentioned, and that is the aughts and the obligations and and the Bible speaks in terms of commandments. Not good deeds, not because it's a nice thing to do, but we are commanded to do. And these are gifts by God. As a matter of fact, the formula, you were talking about the formula of this prayer in the Mass. The formula we don't which is a contrast, we've talked about it before. That's not our point, not my point. But we we don't bless things, we bless God for things in Judaism. So the formula is praised our you, oh God, who has commanded us to do whatever it is that we're that we're reciting the blessing for. Okay. In other words, we're saying, thank you, God, for giving this commandment because ultimately the commandment makes me better off.
SPEAKER_13:It's interesting that we don't even think of the word commandment.
SPEAKER_11:No, not anymore. Our modern society changes that to good deed.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah, but because we're not giving a command. We have been commanded by God. That's right. Okay, let's go to the last one. And David, you already began to when you said it, I about jumped out of my skin. Because you already said that when we are ungrateful, it begins to warp us. You want to expand on that and then we'll react.
SPEAKER_09:I think we've seen, we've all met people who um who have been ungrateful in life and who seem to go through life ungrateful. And I think I think something has happened in their development, or they've had arrested development or something along the way. And from a Christian point of view, that becomes very uh different than than the kind of persons that we are designed and and destined to be. And so I think that if we don't cultivate that sense of gratitude, if we don't develop that through spiritual practices of gratitude, then uh uh we end up we could possibly end up being the kind of person that just expects, expects, expects, uh takes for granted, takes for granted, takes for granted. And nobody, uh not even God, wants to be taken for granted, I don't think. I think it's just part of of making us uh an unsavory, an un uh unlikable uh kind of person.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah, I I was saying this to uh our dear rabbi. I was saying it's the front door, ungratefulness is the front door to hell.
SPEAKER_11:Because you refuse to acknowledge and it's the separation is the beginning. Yes. Okay, and it goes back to the biblical verse I am me. Knowledge of God is the beginning of wisdom.
SPEAKER_13:That's great. Rudy?
SPEAKER_11:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12:I mean, from a Christian perspective, it's it's you're essentially continually rupturing the relationship of love, if you will, with the Creator. So when when we when we can't even be thankful for the basic things, I mean I don't know about you guys, but in the morning, the second I open my eyes I get another day, right? I get every every single breath that you take yours. It's not mine. It belongs to you to God in a very real time. So when we when we step away from that gratefulness, we're stepping away from from what what what the rabbit would think. We are specifically commanded, right? And so we fail in this obligation and and it's grateful to become very real things to God. And of course we can't harm God. So what we end up doing is what you were talking about, Father Mario, is paving paving the way to heaven, some real path, right? That continual separation from God. It really does start with ungratefulness.
SPEAKER_13:Ungrateful and now to rabbi.
SPEAKER_11:And this picks up from something that Rudy said about when you wake up. In Jewish tradition, when you open your eyes and you're awake, before your feet have touched the ground out of bed, there's a prayer that we recite that is thanking God. For the moment you wake up, there's gratitude. And the the text is I give thanks before you, living and eternal ruler, for you have returned my soul within me with compassion. Abundant is your faithless. Quick, but it's acknowledging God as soon as you're truly awake, but before you've actually gotten out of bed, before your feet have touched the ground. There's acknowledgement of God.
SPEAKER_13:Notice that we have been talking about our salvation. Okay, what's the opposite of salvation?
SPEAKER_11:Condemnation.
SPEAKER_13:Condemnation. So we're saying it is right and just. Yes.
SPEAKER_11:By their lack of gratefulness.
SPEAKER_13:That's right. It's always interesting because one of the ways that I imagine hell is uh this is just an analogy, that when you die, uh God will show you the you that you have become by your decisions. And he will say to you, and he will say to you, do you wish for me to finish to try to finish your transformation, what you failed to to do? And if you say you're free, if you say yes, that begins that's that's the Catholic teaching of purgatory.
SPEAKER_11:Don't say you're free.
SPEAKER_13:No, no, I'm sorry. If if you say yes, that is the beginning of your tra your what we call purgatory. But here's the point. If you say, No, I I don't want you to change me in what to what you want me to be, that's the beginning of hell.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah, but who would say that?
SPEAKER_13:Well, because if you are so used to your own self being who you want to be. Like a lot of people we run into every day. Then g you know get what you get to be for all eternity? A spiritual Frankenstein. What is a Frankenstein what is Frankenstein? Frankenstein is a human being human-built. Human being a human-built human being. That's Frankenstein.
SPEAKER_11:Right.
SPEAKER_13:You get to be a human-built human being. Not what God wanted you to be, but a human being human-built. A human-built human being. Now, last week, we've only had five minutes. So I want to finish, just get about five minutes to the last part of the prayer. It is right and just. It is our duty and our salvation. The next two words, always and everywhere to give you to give you thanks, Almighty and ever living God. Why always and everywhere is it possible to be grateful always and everywhere?
SPEAKER_11:Yes. Because it's a conscientious choice to be grateful no matter where you are, and not only physically where you are, but mentally, emotionally, spiritually. What am I missing? Mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically where you are. Okay. So it it is it's a it's a choice and a state of being to be grateful. So yes, I think it actually is. Okay, David?
SPEAKER_09:Yeah. Uh let me let me um let me I'm thinking about this. I I think it's uh and I went back to the idea of commandment because it seems to me that Paul, the apostle, is te teaches that thanksgiving and praise to God is is all always to be done. But you you don't give thanks to God for something that is bad. I think we don't say, God thank you, uh, you know, that I have cancer. Or God thank you. I think what you we say is God, I I want to give you thanks even though I I have cancer. So we can give thanks to God, but we don't give thanks for to uh we don't give thanks to God for bad things.
SPEAKER_11:Didn't Job do that?
SPEAKER_09:I I I don't know that he did. I'd have to go back.
SPEAKER_11:I don't know that he I thought there was a line where he says, Shall we not thank God for the Yeah.
SPEAKER_09:I I think there's a difference between giving thanks to to God in the midst of every situation, as opposed to giving thanks to God for the situation.
SPEAKER_11:Right.
SPEAKER_09:And and I'd have to give that some thought. Me too.
SPEAKER_11:Interesting.
SPEAKER_09:Yeah, I um yeah, that seems to me to to to be our right, our duty, our etc. As you were saying, that for it to be everywhere and at all times. Uh, because not all times are great times, and but we can still find things in the midst of that to give thanks to God for.
SPEAKER_13:Rudy, you're got about thirty or forty seconds.
SPEAKER_12:I I think it's it's an interesting thing because it's difficult for us to think about, but when we enact our duty continually, we step further into that grape, and heaven in some real sense is a perfect manifestation of that grape, continual duty in worship, in thanksgiving. So existing outside of time and faith, in perfect union, in perfect gratitude. I mean it's it's hard for us to think about it in just for real terms, but in a real real sense, it's the infinite presence of God, an infinite grace that we that we want, right or that we should strive to achieve.
SPEAKER_13:Because yeah. Now, David, doesn't Paul talk about always giving thanks to God at all times and all places.
SPEAKER_09:I think he does, but I don't think I think the proviso is not that you you give thanks to God for the blessings that God has, but not necessarily for the persecutions or for yeah, I I I can't I think there's a distinction between but but that means we we take the time to look for those moments of grace in the midst of of real hard times. And those those moments do come. Those moments do come. And that may be what Job was on about, I think. I'd have to go back and rethink that.
SPEAKER_13:Okay, any final words from any of you? Any wisdom, final wisdom?
SPEAKER_09:Thanksgiving, November 27th or whatever it is, 28th.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah, it is. Yes, good timing. But do we actually give thanks or do we just eat turkey?
SPEAKER_11:I think most people, because of the ritual nature of Thanksgiving, sitting around and give thanks. And and the TV shows about everybody go around the room and say what you're thankful for. Yeah. I think there's an element of it. There's at least an attempt. I'd like to believe there is.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah, at least an attempt. Okay. Thank you very much, guys. It's been an interesting topic to deal with.
SPEAKER_11:And next week, who is I was supposed to be, but I cannot be on next week.
SPEAKER_13:Okay. Uh David, are you going to be able to be here? I think so.
SPEAKER_09:So let me let me uh let me take it up.
SPEAKER_13:Okay. Great. This is KNTH 1070. We thank you for listening to us. Please, during this week, keep us in your prayers because you are going to be in ours.
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