A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
November 2, 2025 Perspectivism And The Limits Of Truth
A single claim can change a century: “God is dead.” We take that line out of the meme jar and set it on the table next to real lives, real laws, and the moral gridlock we feel every day. With a priest, a rabbi, and a millennial at the mics, we ask whether every viewpoint is “just perspective” or whether some claims truly align with reality better than others.
We start with Nietzsche’s perspectivism and the modern habit of flattening all views into equal truth. The panel separates what we observe from how we interpret, arguing that humility about bias shouldn’t end debate—it should sharpen it. From there we tackle “slave morality,” the charge that compassion, humility, and turning the other cheek are tactics of the powerless. Drawing from Jewish and Christian sources, we counter that the goal is never to sanctify weakness but to transform it—strength is meant to lift the poor, protect the vulnerable, and check the powerful. We also examine the prosperity gospel against the book of Job and the difference between poverty as deprivation and poverty of spirit as freedom from attachment.
Then we read “God is dead” as diagnosis: once transcendence is removed, power becomes its own justification. History answers with world wars, purges, and legal systems that excuse evil under orders. We discuss sovereignty without moral law, why relativism refutes itself, and how a participatory, living God anchors human dignity across tribes, markets, and states. Even in a fractured culture, there’s overlap worth defending—truth-telling, the value of life, care for the stranger—and those shared goods can still unite people who argue fiercely about everything else.
If you’re wrestling with moral relativism, faith and reason, or how to act when the ground feels shaky, this conversation offers clarity without clichés. Listen, share with a friend who loves philosophy or theology, and tell us where you still find common ground. If the episode moves you, subscribe, leave a review, and send your thoughts to ashooffaith1070@gmail.com so we can keep the conversation going.
There's something happening here. But what it is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there. Tellin me I got to beware. I think it's time we stop, children. What's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. Nobody's right if everybody's wrong. Young people speak in their minds. I get so much resistance. Don't be happy with stop. Hey, what's that sound? Everybody knows what's going down.
SPEAKER_11:Oh, there we go. Welcome to a show of faith, where professor, priest, millennial, and rabbi discuss theology, philosophy, morality, ethics, and anything else we feel like discussing. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, we would love to hear from you. Email us at ashooffaith1070 at gmail.com. That's ashooffaith1070 at gmail.com. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard. Our priest is Father Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St. Cyril of Alexandria, the 10,000 Block of West Timer.
SPEAKER_13:Hola, hola, cool, cool.
SPEAKER_11:Our professor David Capes is our Protestant minister. He's Director of Academic Program for the Learner Theological Library, but as we say every so often, we are real priest, real minister, real rabbi, and his duties as such took him away from our show tonight. Rudy Kong is our millennial, he's a systems engineer, master's degree in theology from University of St. Thomas. Howdy, howdy. I am Rabbi Stuart Federal, retired rabbi of Congregation Sha'ar Hashalom, the Clear Lake Area of Houston, Texas. And Crystal is our board operator, and she helps us sound fantastic. And tonight, Rudy, you are our show director.
SPEAKER_10:Oh my goodness. I always get kind of nervous picking the subject, and I think I um I try to relate things in a way that I don't know. I I try to make it something personal, something that that I read or that I look at, um, and then in a very real sense bring it to the table, right? Because believe it or not, I have much to learn. And don't we all? It with and within this group, there is a great wealth of experience. So I always find it quite interesting to to balance ideas, right? I mean, even to check my own ideas and biases, whether they might be right or wrong, which most of the time I tend to be right, but that's okay. Well, that's just your perspective. Yes. Um so I wanted to talk, I I I I don't know if you guys are familiar with Reddit. Mario, are you on the lot that's a lot of stuff on there? And I follow a couple of uh forums, if you will. And uh some Catholic ones, uh some uh funny enough, uh uh there's a there's a um there's an interesting forum that's called Debate an Atheist. And every and I just get on there and it's not I don't really like to get on and and and really argue with people, but I just kind of like to see what people are really talking about there. Now, of course, uh Reddit is very left-leaning, so the majority of the population there are not to say that there's not religious people, there are, there are conservative people, but most of them are left-leaning, if you will. So this this subject comes from a lot of posts recently that I've been reading about Frederick Nietzsche. And uh, of course, we've talked about Nietzsche before, we've talked about some of these principles, and and I don't want to essentially um make this a show about him, but I think as as a philosopher, of course, he's a German philosopher for those who don't know, um uh born in 1844, died in the 1900s. The last 10 years of his life, he suffered horribly, he had a mental collapse, he I mean, allegedly died of pneumonia, some say he died of syphilis. Um he was the son of a Lutheran pastor, and he essentially lost his faith. And this loss of faith that he went through is something that he wrote extensively, which he in a in a roundabout way, I would say, he he tried to relate to the civilization, the culture around him, what he was seeing, um, and and and really kind of extrapolated this out to to the rest of what was happening in Europe at the time, right? And and what he wrote about. So one of the concepts that I wanted to talk to, because I I really think that there's probably, I mean, I don't know, Father Marion and Rabbi, from your experience, but uh to me, Nietzsche is Nietzsche is kind of one of like, he's like an anti-Aquinas, Thomas Aquinas. You know, he's he's kind of one of these thinkers and prolific writers who's just very well known, right? There's a lot of people on the left, there's a lot of people um that read him, that get confused by him. Um he he was misquoted a lot um later in his life by his sister. I mean, uh it's just and and and I want to talk about that a little bit further on, but I want to talk about really essentially two two concepts. And the first concept is perspectivism. And and I know Rabbi already gave me the the the mean angry nod to give me a lot of people.
SPEAKER_11:What is that giving you the reminder?
SPEAKER_10:Reminder not everybody knows these vocabulary. Not everybody and and to be fair, I think it's it's important to to define these things, right? So so let me give you let me give you an example. Um Perspectivism is a shift is essentially what we find a lot in our culture today. So for example, I could go to you and say, abortion is wrong, okay? And you could say, well, that's just your religious perspective. And I could say, no, that's human life, it's a biological fact, things happen in conception, and that person would answer back, well, you're interpreting that fact through you know your perceived moral framework, and somebody else interprets it differently. Somebody else has a different um understanding of something, right? So perspectivism is is essentially that knowledge always comes from a particular standpoint. So it could be from upbringing, from psychological conditions, from even biologicals. One, whether you're man or male, your your experiences are different, right? So this is, I think, one of the things that that especially critical theory um has really latched onto. It's what I would argue in a very modern sense, what a lot of what we saw in 2020, 2021, 22, 23 is a sort of resurgence and reinterpretation of what uh uh Frederick Nietzsche was talking about almost 150, 170, 150 years ago. So what I want to ask is, of course, Nietzsche, he argues that knowledge doesn't come, uh that it's not necessarily objective, right? And he and he makes this quote there are many kinds of eyes, even the sphinx has eyes, and consequently, there are many kinds of truths, and consequently, there is no truth. So to him, these these truths were based on different persons and perspectives, and it was this kind of amalgamation of different people's perspective that would kind of culturally uh create a glue, if you will, and that's what would become true in a sense. So I I know I've talked on and I want to I don't want to bring you guys in, but what I want to do is I want to ask you about that.
SPEAKER_11:In other words, uh Rudy, do you really believe that his perspectivism or whatever it's called is 100% absolutely, totally, completely, and utterly wrong? In other words, isn't there an element of Noah? So my so then so my question is how much is he right and what are the limitations on his being right? In other words, if if it's only perspective, well, that's gonna lead you to the goddess dead.
SPEAKER_13:No, it's gonna lead you to the fact that that's his perspective. Right Oh, right.
SPEAKER_11:Right, but that has that has limitations. There's g well, from our perspective, i we're gonna say it's limitations. In other words, in other words, there's an element I think that he's right, but I think it's got limitations to his to to the application of being right. Does that even make sense? Yes.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, so so here's an example. Whether you're a Greek living in Greece 2,500 years ago, or you're a modern man, if I tell you, if I see uh uh uh a rock tumbling down uh a mountain, I can make an observation and say, hey, that that rock is subject to to some sort of pull, right? There's something that's dragging that faster and faster. And what I would be observing is some sort of some sort of gravitational pull, right?
SPEAKER_11:So and Rudy, I I would say that there's gravity to your remarks. Oh God. It carries weight. How's that?
SPEAKER_10:That carries, yes. So so even though you and I can perceive something differently, um, or this person in ancient Greece could perceive something, we could perceive the same objective action, if you will, because we're both seeing the same collapse of that rock or the same fall of that infamous apple from the tree that caused, you know, this this illumination of consciousness from from uh Newton, right? Um then how we interpret it becomes more subjective to our understanding, right? So we talked um we talked two weeks ago about conversion, right? And our different experiences. Father Mario, you talked about um your upbringing, I talked about my upbringing. Rabbi, you talked about your upbringing, and these things matter, right? They they impact the way that we see that we see our worldview. So my question is, do you think do you think that within this this framework, right? And and I know what you're getting at, Rabbi, is there's always some perspective, right? Because there's always there's always some interpretation that's done through my own mind, through my brain, through my biology, but there are things that are immutable, if you will. So I guess my question, my initial question is do you guys do you guys find this to be a problem, right? Because I I think that what we're falling into a lot of culturally today is is no, that's just your perspective, or that's just how your religion raised you, right? And it and it's we're not really getting to to the root of the moral issues that that we're claiming, right? When I tell you that I don't think abortion is right because life begins at conception, that is a human life, or when I tell you that every human being But but yeah, but aren't you heavily influenced by your Roman Catholic perspective?
SPEAKER_13:Isn't there an element of perspective that you see, here's where I here's where I have the the uh the issue. Perspectivism is okay. The problem is the ism. The ism the ism implies that a perspective, therefore, is is j is limited in value because all perspectives are equal. And that is wrong.
SPEAKER_11:Exactly.
SPEAKER_13:Okay. So the problem the situation is that all perspectives are perspectives, but m many perspectives, some perspectives at least, contain truth. And some are not lies are based on faulty assumptions. That's right. So what Nietzsche is doing, which I I disagree with, is he is presuming that just because it is a perspective, that therefore it is relative to uh to any it's equally true to any other perspective, and that is wrong. So how do we determine which one is correct?
SPEAKER_11:My perspective, your perspective.
SPEAKER_13:The one that that makes the closest argument to being a reflection of reality as it is.
SPEAKER_11:Whose reality is circular?
SPEAKER_13:No, not circular. I mean, you could uh if you're going to the get good to the point that that you're not going to say that there is any nothing exists in the real world, it all exists in your mind, then yeah, there but we can't argue anymore. But there is there is something about reality.
SPEAKER_11:This is what necessitates of the existence and belief in God.
SPEAKER_13:Okay, let's we we could continue this when we come back. This is KMT with KMTH 1070. And from our perspective, it's time to go to a commercial.
SPEAKER_01:They try to create a narrative that has something to do with it when there's not a credit evidence that he ever did. But they also have wandered into a problem here with some of their own people getting caught up in this web check show.
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SPEAKER_11:Welcome back to a show of faith on the intensity of the answer.
SPEAKER_13:So what I was trying to say is that his argument that everything is perfect perspective destroys itself.
SPEAKER_11:Which means everything is relative.
SPEAKER_13:Which means that his that's his own perspective. And so we can discount him from the very beginning because of that. The problem is that his his thought makes an an ill an illogical jump. And the illogical jump is that just because most things are perspectives, that all perspectives are equal, and that therefore no perspective has more uh congruence with reality than others.
SPEAKER_11:When you say congruence with you mean truth.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah. Well in other words, you you some some perspectives are much more accurate when compared to reality than others.
SPEAKER_11:Okay.
SPEAKER_13:I'm I'm I'm uh in other words, uh uh is the word congruent meaning in uh linked to reality? What does the word congruent then mean?
SPEAKER_11:Congruent would mean uh same wavelength. Yeah. Aligning what is it? Say it again, Ruth. Aligning. Aligning.
SPEAKER_13:Well that's correct. Okay. Most perspective don't align with reality. And some do align, meaning that they're some align better than others. That's correct.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_13:And some have partial truth, but don't have the full truth. Um I have a a definition of an ideology that uh I always use, and that is ideology. Uh a partial insight whose seductive simplicity is altogether more plausible than the whole truth.
SPEAKER_11:Uh, you have to be more plausible.
SPEAKER_13:Well, it's no, it's it's more plausible to the individual. Oh, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_11:Translate that to English.
SPEAKER_13:In other words, when you when you get excited about an insight, you are so excited that you think that unlocks the whole thing. Because you get excited and your desire to solve all of your to to to remove all doubt overtakes your uh your logic and you begin to think that that perspective, that that insight covers it all. Covers it all. And it does.
SPEAKER_11:But but the problem is that one little part of it uh sounds so perfect that you think it uh covers it all.
SPEAKER_13:That's right.
SPEAKER_11:That one little part does have it.
SPEAKER_13:That is why the heard the the definition ideology, a partial insight whose seductive The word seductive simplicity is there because it implies that you get so excited about the insight that you forget that it's only partial.
SPEAKER_11:Right.
SPEAKER_13:That you want to make your yourself enjoyable.
SPEAKER_11:In other words, somebody comes up with a simplistic answer to a problem and ignores the whole thing.
SPEAKER_10:You see, and and I think fundamentally, I think what what Nietzsche was and a lot of our culture struggles with on a daily basis is this concept of of evil, of injustice, of death, of destruction, of suffering. And and I think this is where where it kind of gets lost because there's all these isms, right? And and and explanations, but the problem is that these explanations, they don't they don't reach the real root of the cause, right? And and they don't, how do I say, they stay in just the material realm of the things that are going on. So I think one of the issues that that Nietzsche had is um is this this concept of of resent resentiment, which which is which is another word that I I wanted to bring in, but um it essentially what he's arguing is that our highest moral values don't come from reason or divine revelation from psychological need.
SPEAKER_11:And well, no, go ahead. Fill this out okay. We're coming up to the next slide.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, so so what I mean specifically is is across history and for all of humanity, there's been I mean, if you want to boil it down to it, but there's been the uh the oppressor and the oppressed. There's been a tribe that's more powerful and a tribe that's less powerful. There's been an empire that has more wealth and an empire that has less wealth. There's been uh a free person and there's been a slave, right? In a very real sense. So these concepts of evil, of injustice, um bring up real, real, how would you say, emotional perturbances or emotional, how would you say it, um happens. Like they they they they somehow manifest themselves right in the world. And we say, no, this is absolutely wrong, right? When when when you're treated unfairly, when you're when you're stuck um somewhere that you don't want to be, or or when you're, let's say, in a in a relationship that's abusive, there's there's something about those actions that that within your spirit you reject at a very fundamental level. And I think this is kind of one of the things that Nietzsche was was coming at. Now, I also think that he was also kind of playing off of Karl Marx's his rhetoric as well, because all these guys are kind of coming off at the same time, right? And and and there's this kind of bourgeoisie and proletariat, the oppressed, the unoppressed. And so he he grabs these concepts, and these concepts he tries to boil them down to very material humanistic needs. So the the reason that we have uh a religion or the reason that we have um these value systems, if you will, come from this this this sort of oppression. And so I think this is where he kind of goes fundamentally wrong.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah, we'll talk about it a little bit more, but he he's talking about the issue of slave morality. You know, that that uh that we are that the whole idea of being partial to the weak and to the poor is comes from the fact that those who are at the those who are at the bottom of the power scale are trying to make those who are powerful feel guilty. And so the slaves are are trying to take over by by manipulating the strong. And and Nietzsche is trying to say the strong are the real ones, they're they're swallowing a lie because it's you need to be strong. We need to re we know we need to call weakness what it is, weakness. And the strong should override the weak the weak. And right now I'm really the strong one because I'm in charge. I'm in charge of g taking us to commercial. So I hereby proclaim that but it creates resentment.
SPEAKER_11:No, unless you resentment.
SPEAKER_13:I am I am exercising my power over you. You are the weakness now, right now, because we are going to be able to do that. Rabbi, cut them off. Rabbi, cut them off. We are going to commercial. This is KNTH 1070, and we'll be right back.
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SPEAKER_11:Yes. Third segment.
SPEAKER_10:So Father Mar, I think I think you were you were summing up pretty well there at the end. And I think it it's it's w what he argues is that the oppressed class has and needs a site, there's a psychological necessity to make sense and to justify their their suffering in some way. And so these this weakness is in some way flipped to a square. Right. So they become uh it becomes the strong against the weak, the rich against the poor, and and so this thought process is is really what what gets to me because it's it's something that that in today's culture is being very much brought brought back to life, especially um that it goes back to the rooted that goes back to the oppressed and the the the oppressors, the proletariat bourgeoisie.
SPEAKER_13:Right. I I I I think that the uh the the the the interesting sentence that you sent says Nietzsche argues that the root of morality of compassion, humility, turning the other cheek emerged not from divine wisdom, but from the powerless redefining their weakness as virtue. It's an interesting thing because I I don't think uh Christianity or Judaism um says that weakness is a virtue. I think that when we see somebody who is who is weak, uh we always encourage them to reach out to God who will make them strong.
SPEAKER_11:In other words, strength is the is the strength of that's right.
SPEAKER_13:The issue is not that we want everybody to be weak, uh we want everybody to choose the sort of strength that is correct, which is the strength that comes from God. I mean, we don't want we want uh people who uh uh I mean Jesus was not weak. He was uh and and Moses was not weak. Now they they take compassion on the weak, but we don't want the weak to remain weak. We want the weak and the poor to be able to m move forward.
SPEAKER_11:But but isn't there a sentiment uh not necessarily with the weak, but with being poor that the that poverty is almost a good thing?
SPEAKER_13:Yeah, there is there is a sense in which see the word poverty can be used in two different senses. Uh uh Financial poverty. Well, poverty as as something that uh is hurting the dignity of the human person is wrong, is is an evil. It's a bad thing. But letting go of material things and knowing that your value does not come from what you own, and you take a vow of poverty, you don't take a vow of poverty so you can be weak and poor.
SPEAKER_11:But I don't mean a vow of poverty. That's a very special thing. Well, I mean not not. I mean like the idea, and I know how this is misrepresented, so I'm asking you to re-represent it. The rich can't go through the eye of a needle.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_11:Thank you. But so isn't that reflective of a sentiment that is pro-poor, pro-anti-rich.
SPEAKER_13:No, no, it is it is not because the the if you were we use the word poor in spirit. Poor in spirit means you're you're free from attachment to your richness, so you're free to use them in a in a good way, in a way that is positive for your growth and for the growth of other people.
SPEAKER_11:And if that material wealth comes with an attitude against the poor, then that's another evil.
SPEAKER_13:That's another evil. But but the the the poor that the Christian is is is saying is is is uh elevating is we we want people to be elevated so that they don't experience the evil poverty, but they are bec we don't want them to become t uh identified with avarice. We want them to have enough for human existence. Okay, so we don't want people to be uh um accumulating things for the sake of things. We want the goods of the earth for you to have enough and for you to use what you have to help bring other people up. Right.
SPEAKER_11:So it's and Mario, again, David is not here to defend himself because he has the task of defending all Protestantism. But see, that's but isn't this the root of the um uh what's it called? The uh the movement within Protestantism of you're supposed to be rich.
SPEAKER_13:You know, well, yeah, but I can't think of what it's called. No, no, that that that's the gospel of uh of prosperity. Right.
SPEAKER_11:Isn't that the basis of it, this idea?
SPEAKER_13:Yeah, but see that that's the problem is that and you may have to correct me here because maybe David would be. No, I know, but I'm gonna go into the into the Hebrew scriptures. Okay. And the in the Hebrew scriptures there is a point at which there is that a sense of that if you are something if something bad happens to you, it's because you did something evil. That's the whole thing of Job.
SPEAKER_11:That's what the friends, quarter book friends say to him, but the book make them look stupid.
SPEAKER_13:Right. So so what what's happening, I think, in the prosperity gospel is saying is they're ignoring Job.
SPEAKER_11:Right.
SPEAKER_13:Because what they're saying is is if you're right with God, God will give you blessings and you will be material blessings, and you will be that's not the way the world works.
SPEAKER_11:No, it isn't.
SPEAKER_13:So in my opinion, that that they are reaching back into the Hebrew scriptures and grabbing the wrong part.
SPEAKER_11:Right, okay.
SPEAKER_13:The wrong part of the Hebrew scriptures.
SPEAKER_11:But it's still based on this idea of uh of uh that you were saying before about uh we we want you to have wealth, we want you to you know uh access the strength from God to elevate yourself. Yes.
SPEAKER_13:But that that's a mis That's a to elevate just yourself.
SPEAKER_11:Right.
SPEAKER_13:Because if you do are if you are given uh power and wealth, okay.
SPEAKER_11:That's only God's gift so you can give it to other humans.
SPEAKER_13:So you can share it with other humans. But that's why, you know, I disagree with his basic thing where he says that the rule of morality, compassion, humility, and turning the other cheek, it emerged not from divine wisdom. It is from divine wisdom. But notice what he says, it but from the powerless redefining their weakness as virtue. We have never said that weakness in and of itself is virtue as virtue, right. Weakness is only an opening for you to be able to connect to the power and the courage that God gives you.
SPEAKER_11:And the and the Bible goes out of its way to look at the powerless, the poor, the widow, the orphan, and the stranger. Yeah. These are requirements, they're commandments to help them.
SPEAKER_13:That's right.
SPEAKER_11:Elevate them so they're not poor. Elevate them so they're not weak.
SPEAKER_13:That's correct. But Nietzsche, Nietzsche fails to see that.
SPEAKER_10:I think I think, Father Warner, I think the the issue is that I think what he fails to understand is that both things can be true. So there can be a psychological need, a cultural condition, and all these things, but then God can use those things to instill or to reveal his divine knowledge to us at the same time.
SPEAKER_13:That is correct, yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_10:Our scripture was written down, inspired, if you will, um, and it was inspired to particular individuals. And those particular individuals have their own conditioning, their own psychological needs, their own personal history, right? That they played particular roles. So I think this is this is where in in and I think to Nietzsche's sort of detriment, he kind of he kind of puts God into this this sort of ethereal sort of, and he calls it the the the the the knowing eye is this kind of term that he uses, but it's just kind of this thing that just kind of sits out there in the in the ether and is just kind of observing and looking, but that's not that's not the God that I understand him as I understand him to be. I mean, his his concept of a God is is a God that's that's really or or a being or or a thing, if you will, that's just kind of uh uh watching uh a creative sort of uh experiment happening.
SPEAKER_12:Yeah.
SPEAKER_10:Whereas in in our understanding of this God, it's it's a participatory God. It's a God that lives, that that exists, that participates in all aspects of our lives.
SPEAKER_13:That's right. And he and he came, of course, us Christians would say that God came to liberate us from the from the the negative aspects of weakness, the negative aspects of poverty, the negative aspects of all of those, and to redeem us and to give us strength, and to, you know, because if you look at, for example, some of the heroes uh i in terms of God's God's uh realm, like for example, the angels. Oh the angels are not weak.
SPEAKER_11:Major misconception about, you know, like the that angels are not weak. Right, like like the cherubs are little fat baby angels.
SPEAKER_13:And but he so calm so Christianity and Judaism lifts up the weak so that they can stop being weak, but they n they don't go to the other extreme of being selfish. They they gain strength so that that all of us can can gain strength together. Right. And he misses that. He misses that. His the Christianity he's and Judaism he's criticizing is not real. It's his own perception of Christianity and the perspective of the Judeo-Christian Christian, which is equally erroneous. That's right. Okay, we have to go to a break because we are not going to be erroneous when it comes down to who's paying the bills for us to be on the air. So this is KNTH 1070 the answer, and we will be right back.
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SPEAKER_12:Oh yes, final minute, Mr. Bowman.
SPEAKER_11:Welcome back to a show of faith on Am Tensivity Answer. I think it's working now. I hope it's working now. It definitely sounds like it is.
SPEAKER_13:I hear you.
SPEAKER_11:And so do I. I hear me too, for once. Rudy, go ahead.
SPEAKER_10:I hear you.
SPEAKER_11:So this is the last uh set uh section.
SPEAKER_10:Last section, yeah. So I I want I wanted to I wanted to kind of um where where all this is is kind of going is so of course Nietzsche dies in in the 1900s, okay? And from this, it's interesting because he has, and and Rabbi, you mentioned in the beginning, he has this famous, famous, famous quote um where it's this, it's this the story of the madman, right? And it's this madman, he's got his lantern, and it's during the day, and he's looking. And um he says, God is dead, God remains dead, and we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves? The murderers of all murderers, what was holiest and mightiest of all the world has yet owned, has cut to death under our knives, who will wipe this blood off us? Now, I think uh he's kind of criticizing that that there's these isms, right? There's perspectivism, relativism, scientism, all these isms, and in a very real sense, the this kind of new world that he finds himself in and where we find ourselves in, I I would say there's there's there's less piety, there's less there's less focus on religion, there's less focus on God. Exactly, exactly. And so uh when when I when I read what he was seeing, and then we we turn the century, right, and we get to World War I, we get to World War II, um, and it's just uh of course the the the the purges of of um Soviet Russia, then you get Mao Tetong's Red China, and my goodness, it's it's just absolutely uh just the most abhorrent, evil, death-ridden century we could ever imagine. I mean, not right. It's it's just absolutely horrendous, right? And and so to the point where I mean uh what's crazy is there's this, and then and I wrote it down here, but there's this very very um uh very famous Nazi uh um uh the Nuremberg trials where they say we were just following orders, we were following the law. Yeah, Carl Schmidt Schmidt is and and he argued from this kind of same morality, right? That it's determined by the sovereign power, that there is no universal moral law, that only the will of the strong is really what matters, and to heck with the weak, right? Because the strong are are the ones that need to be.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah, the you know, I I was really paying attention, Rudy, to this last uh couple of sentences uh of the paragraph where he said that God is dead and God remains dead and we have killed him. But listen to the last listen to the last two sentences. Is not the greatness of this deed, in other words, the murder of God is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? Because you see, what he is actually I think what he's saying is that now that there are no gods, the only ones that can be God is us.
SPEAKER_11:Right. How convenient.
SPEAKER_13:That's us. It's us who ca and that's why we must become the mighty and the poor are to be cr crushed. Right. Because somebody has to be and that justifies the oppressors. Yeah, that well that's what he's saying. We are justified because if if if the if the poor and the and the oppressed take over and there is no God, all all of us will sink uh in the in the mud. And so what we need is must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? And he's basically saying that. So that human beings to me whenever I read all this, Rudy, I I I keep on going back to something that Rabbi doesn't agree with, but well you're wrong. I know, I know. But the whole idea of what Catholic understanding and Christian understanding of the original sin. In other words, that we cut ourselves off from dependence on God so that we could become God. We want to become God. And and and you know, I always think of uh things like uh you know, um slogans that you see in cars, my body, my choice. Meaning I don't have to answer to anybody, and and we are humans and we are in charge of ourselves and we Because God's dead anyway. That's right. And and actually, we have bought into a lot of Nietzsche. We don't use it, we don't use his name, but we have to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_11:Some of us don't know the name, but we follow this philosophy anyway. That's right. Right.
SPEAKER_10:And and I think that's that's kind of the problem that we find ourselves in. And I know that we've talked about there's kind of been a resurgence of of uh a lot of people kind of trying to re find their religious roots or or find this back to the transcendent, but the reality is is that a lot of us no longer share a similar moral vocabulary. No, we don't. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_11:I mean, yes, and I think it's really I think it's even worse than that. Well, because I don't it's not that we just don't share the same values, it's that the choice, the values that we've chosen are diametrically opposed to other people's values. It's that we're in a conflict. It's not that you have yours, I'm but I'm right, everybody else is evil. Yeah. It's it's it's it's a conflict, it's a battle. It's not just merely that we don't agree, it's that we are in conflict with each other as a result. And I think it's getting worse. I think it's getting worse.
SPEAKER_10:It I th I think it is too, and and I was very taken back, and one of the things that I was thinking a lot about is is I don't know if you guys read in in Nigeria children that were that were kidnapped.
SPEAKER_11:Right.
SPEAKER_10:Um they escaped. They escaped, right, and and one of the priests was killed, and it it's just it's just these continual, continual violent, violent acts based on just completely diametrically opposed ideologies, right? I mean and and it's it's like we're not even in the same dimension, right? I mean, uh Rambo, I could fundamentally we disagree on a lot of things, right?
SPEAKER_11:But but that's a big but, but they're overlaps of agreement.
SPEAKER_10:Right. And but there's fundamental things that you and I can look at and say, hey, we are both images of God, including with human dignity.
SPEAKER_11:And you know, the last part, the very, very last part of what you sent us, okay, is that ideas have consequences. And it's not just it's not just the idea that there's overlap in our morality and ethics, but that leads to acts that we both can join with each other and work on together. And that's that's a that is something that gets lost in the argument, too. And I think that as people disagree so deeply and in and call the other side evil, that they lose sight of the fact that where we do agree, we can work together to improve the world. For lack of a better way to word it.
SPEAKER_10:And I I think there's some people, and and I think this population segment is getting larger or more radicalized, but I just as much as there are people that are converting, if you will, or coming back to the faith or stepping into the faith, there are there are millions and millions of people that are just not, you know, we can't sit down and have a conversation. We can't sit down and look at each other in the eye and and agree on these basic human principles. So to me, it's excuse me, it's it's critical because it's not about you don't want to make it into an argument of weak and strong, but at the end of the day, I I you know, we we can't sit here as a culture either and just be allow ourselves to be massacred just because there's some kind of perception of, oh, uh, you know, we're we're we all just need to um we all just need to not perform violence or we all need to not uh kill another person, right? It's it's just I think it's gonna come down to to these kind of fundamental belief systems, and and there's gonna be a lot of there's gonna be a lot of hard decisions that are that are gonna be made here and I think in the not too distant future that are that are really gonna put a lot of our our faith in in turmoil, if you will, or or to the test.
SPEAKER_11:Rudy, there are there are more and more people talking about the i inevitability of civil war in the United States, a second civil war. And I think that's my goodness, the scariest thing I think I've ever heard.
SPEAKER_13:It won't happen.
SPEAKER_11:I hope you're right.
SPEAKER_13:No, I it can't. Mainly because you you don't have concentrations um you know i in uh uh of enough people in different states to go against in other words you have a state that may be liberal, but the liberal may be sixty-forty.
SPEAKER_11:You know, th so you don't know and you don't see the forty fighting against the sixty or the sixty fighting against the forty?
SPEAKER_13:No, I don't.
SPEAKER_11:I hope you're right, Oreo.
SPEAKER_13:I don't I don't see it. I don't see it. Okay, who's in charge next week?
SPEAKER_11:Um You are.
SPEAKER_13:I am. Yes, I am.
SPEAKER_11:You are right.
SPEAKER_13:I am. I am so I I will make a determination of a wise topic for us to be able to uh to follow. So Rudy, thank you very much. That was very good. I I really enjoyed that. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Really enjoyed that. Um and uh I hope David will be back next week if he hadn't.
SPEAKER_11:I hope I believe so, yes.
SPEAKER_13:Okay. Um okay. Well, um what time is it? Oh, it's 8 59. We have less than a minute left.
SPEAKER_11:Right. Well uh Sharon, by the way, I know you're listening.
SPEAKER_13:Yes, Sharon.
SPEAKER_11:Miss you.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah. Sharon was our our previous producer what a couple years a year ago.
SPEAKER_11:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_13:But we we really w got attached to her for a long time.
SPEAKER_11:So it's crystal too.
SPEAKER_13:Well, this to Crystal, we will become attached to Crystal very quickly. So you've listened, you've been listening to the show of faith here on Kn TH 1070 the answer, where you know, us we are priest, minister, millennial, and rabbi uh doing what we can here to in understand. Keep us in your prayers, you're gonna be in hours.
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