A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
November 30, 2025 Why The Bible Still Speaks
A Star Trek parable sets the stage for a deeper question: why do these ancient pages still feel alive, and what exactly are we trusting when we call them Scripture? We open the Bible not as a single volume but as a library of voices—prophets, poets, evangelists, and apostles—each bearing witness to encounters with God. That shift reframes authority: not a magic object, but faithful testimony preserved by communities that tested, argued, and finally recognized which words carried living truth.
We dig into a sticky analogy—cup and water—to ask where divinity resides. Are words the vessel and meaning the water? If so, translation is holy and hazardous work. We weigh the clarity of the NRSV and ESV, the beauty of the King James, and the reality that every version loses something and gains something. From there, we move to inspiration and preservation, then to illumination—the Spirit’s work as readers engage the text. Without illumination, interpretation can become sterile; with it, head and heart meet, and wisdom becomes devotion that can actually shape a life.
Authority and interpretation take center stage as we compare models. The Catholic view looks to the hierarchy—Pope and bishops—as the final court when meanings collide. The Protestant approach blends rigorous exegesis, historic tradition, and a lived, Spirit-led reading across the global church. Along the way we look at Anglicanism’s tensions to show how doctrine, culture, and governance affect unity. Despite real differences, we keep returning to what draws us: words that resonate, correct, and comfort; texts that somehow read us back.
If this conversation sparks something in you, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a rating or review. Tell us: what do you trust most when you open the Bible—the cup, the water, or the Witness behind both?
There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there. Telling me I got to beware. I think it's time we stop, children.
SPEAKER_08:What's that sound? Everybody look what's going down.
unknown:I can't hear it at all.
SPEAKER_07:Welcome to a show of faith on AM107 the Answer, where minister, priest, millennial, and rabbi usually discuss events in the news with each other and discuss theology, philosophy, morality, ethics, and anything else we feel like discussing. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, we'd love to hear from you. Please email us at ashow of faith1070 at gmail.com. Ashow of Faith1070 at gmail.com. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard. Our priest is Father Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St. Cyril of Alexandria in the 10,000 block of Westheimer.
SPEAKER_08:Hello.
SPEAKER_07:Our professor is David Capes, Protestant Minister, and Director of Academic Programming for the Lanier Theological Library.
SPEAKER_11:Good to be with you guys tonight.
SPEAKER_07:Rudy Kong is our millennial systems engineer and has his master's degree in theology from the University of St. Thomas, but he couldn't be with us tonight. I'm Stuart Federal, retired rabbi of Congregation Sha'ar Hashalo in the Clear Lake area of Houston, Texas. And Crystal is our board operator, and she is the one who helps us sound fantastic. And tonight, lucky everybody, I am the show director. And our discussion tonight centers around the Bible. About, I don't know, a couple weeks ago, maybe, I was thinking about Star Trek. Um, Crystal, that's a TV show that was on. Crystal said she hasn't never watched that stuff. But there was a Star Trek episode. She's a baby. I know, I know. Either that or we're all just simply old men. But about a couple weeks ago, I was thinking about a Star Trek adventure uh episode, and the Enterprise, Captain Kirk, Spock, et cetera, go back to a planet that had been visited like a hundred years before, basically to see how well they were developing. And they come to find out that their society, their culture had completely turned into like the culture and society of Chicago in the 1920s, with gangsters and Tommy guns and exactly what you would expect. And they couldn't understand first why it would develop that fast, and second, why it would develop in that direction, and and why, exactly like Chicago in the 1920s, they found out that the previous ship, spaceship, had left a book on the planet that was a history of Chicago in the 1920s, and it had become their Bible. In other words, because this this book appeared from people from the heavens, they decided to they decided it was divine, and they decided that they should basically copy its culture and that's how they developed. So the clear implication of the writers of Star Trek is to cast aspersions on the Bible, and I guess to get people to ask the question Is our Bible the writings of people that we simply chose to turn into our Bible? Are we then therefore merely participating in the religion of men? So that's what got me to thinking about the Bible. So why the Bible? Why do the stories grab a hold of us? Why do the writings like Psalms grab a hold of our hearts and souls and express for us and with us when we recite them so deeply into the human character? What is it about the Bible that makes it our Bible?
SPEAKER_08:Well are you ready?
SPEAKER_07:Go ahead. Neither do I.
SPEAKER_08:First of all, the Bible is not a book.
SPEAKER_07:No. It's a collection of st of of writings.
SPEAKER_08:Spanning the Bi that's right.
SPEAKER_07:Well, yes.
SPEAKER_08:No, no, no.
SPEAKER_07:Crystal's not even listening. You would have loved those jokes, but okay. None. None that I met I can think of.
SPEAKER_08:Um no, but the the see the the Bible we use the term the Bible, but it really is not a book. It's a collection of jokes. Right. And and I would venture to say there's no of course there's no one author.
SPEAKER_07:Right.
SPEAKER_08:But but the Bible is not a book that but uh but yeah, but God, if you don't if you talk about God. But what I'm saying is that the Bible is the statement of faith of individuals who had an encounter with God in a particular context. And so I when I read those those documents, that they're all from different people. Um what I am trusting is that the individual persons who wrote those books.
SPEAKER_07:Okay. But you're not talking Wellhausen, you're talking No, no. Okay, Jonah and right, okay. The prophets, right, right. The gospel writers, letters of okay. So for example, I'm just making sure you're not talking No, okay.
SPEAKER_08:I'm talking, like for example, when I read Paul's letters, I'm trusting Paul. I'm not trusting the Bible. I'm trusting Paul. Paul happens to be part of the book because the word Bible Biblia comes from the word Bibilos in Greek, which is actually the name of a town. Um the town of Bibelos is where papyrus was uh was chiefly manufactured. And then collections of collections of papyrus were given the name Bybilos, the name of the city. Okay. So it's it's it's just all all it means is the the book. But it's not a book. It's a it's a collection of individual books that happen to be for convenience put together. But I could have each one of those books individually and um without them being one single book, and I would have them all. I could have all kinds of different volumes. And so what I am trusting, for example, with Paul or with the gospel writers, and even with Isaiah, with other people, I'm trusting the individual's experience of their encounter with God. And I'm trusting that what they're trying to do is be a witness to the revelation that they had encountered in their experience of God. So I find that the the script the scriptures, I find them to be witnesses of individuals that I have come to trust. So I don't I'm not putting my trust in a book. Right. I'm putting my trust in the authors. In the author.
SPEAKER_07:Okay, but why? What what is it about the writings, for example, your example, of Paul, that leads you to say, I'm gonna trust Paul?
SPEAKER_08:Because when uh first of all, because they are witnesses to an experience, okay, to an experience of revelation that they had an encounter, okay. And when I listen to their encounter and I listen to the content, that content i um resonates inside of me. Thank you. It resonates inside me. And say I I say your experience is matching what mine is.
SPEAKER_07:See that that to me is the key to the authors of the Bible. Whatever you want to say about it, and and David, I'm I'm gonna I I know you know the analogy that I can't quote very perfectly, but there's an analogy of of a cup that has water in it, and how we view the holiness, authority, divine nature of the Bible. Do you know what I'm referring to? David?
SPEAKER_08:I don't think David's there.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah, I'm here. I'm just uh having a hard time understanding. Can you hear him? Yeah, your voice is very broken up. Father Mario's is clear, but for me, I'm having a really difficult time making out what you're saying.
SPEAKER_08:Well, you know, David, that's not a question of the hardware. It's a question of the clarity of my my thoughts.
SPEAKER_11:No, I I I mean I I think you're you're I think that was good.
SPEAKER_07:But but but David, do do you do you know what I'm referring to? Like, is the cup which means the text holding the divine, or is it the cup and the water is divine? Do you you do you know what I'm Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:The water is the the cup is the book, the paper, the language.
SPEAKER_07:Okay.
SPEAKER_08:Okay. The water is the meaning that is being transferred, and when you taste that meaning through the medium of words, that meaning is quenching something inside of you.
SPEAKER_07:But but the but the question becomes is the water independent of the cup? Yes. And it itself divine, or is it merely inspired? No.
SPEAKER_08:I forgot the what do you mean, is the water divine? Yeah, is the water No the water is a conduit for the divine.
SPEAKER_07:Okay.
SPEAKER_08:The words are themselves are not the words themselves are like um are like uh street signs that tell that point to somewhere. Okay. So the divine is not can never be anything uh that is created. It's it the the actual divinity is the the the grace which is invisible, which is it is Yes, but try changing the words to the 23rd Psalm and see how people react.
SPEAKER_07:They think it's one way and that's it.
SPEAKER_08:Um yeah, but that's but people can be wrong.
SPEAKER_07:People can be wrong. Be right, yes, that's true.
SPEAKER_08:David.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah, uh again, I'm I'm having I can't understand anything that Stuart is saying. It's it's very garbled and very broken up. I'm not sure what's happening. Um I I think I I got a sense of a little bit of a sense of the gist of what you were saying. Um I would I would argue that revelation has been happening now for thousands of years. And these revelations, um there's a passage in Paul, we talked about Paul earlier, where it says basically that God has entrusted Israel with the oracles of God, right? Now he's referring there to the Old Testament, what we call the Old Testament today or the Hebrew Bible. And and so the whole idea is that God has entrusted to us these these particular words, these amazing words, right? And these words do matter, uh I would I would argue. I think these words do communicate uh with without words that communicate and communicate clearly, we're we're not people clearly as we've seen tonight. We're not able to understand it. So it's not just it's not just noise, it's not just garble. There is a word with a message. And that word with a message can be uh rendered in in all sorts of different languages. In fact, every human language. Um it is a word of revelation, is a word of revelation that has come to particular individuals, and these particular individuals, being faithful, have written down those words, and that's where I think the Bible has this sense of authority and value. And with Mario, I think, um, and with you, Stuart too, from what I can I can discern, is that there is a a sense of of of our our witness, uh our our spirit bears witness with these words. They they agree. There's something in them that agrees. And so that agrees with what?
SPEAKER_08:They resonate with the reader. With the with the the the the presence of God and truth inside of you.
SPEAKER_07:In in inside of the reader, though.
SPEAKER_08:Yes.
SPEAKER_07:Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Because I don't think they would survive in any form at all if they didn't. Why why quote the Psalms if they don't touch us? Why why why if there's no wisdom in the wisdom literature of the Proverbs, why mess around with it? So if it didn't have that.
SPEAKER_08:Well, let me let me tell you though, something that what really resonates in me, and that is that we need to go to a break. Yes. Okay, this is 1070 KNTH, and we will be right back.
SPEAKER_06:December 7th, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked.
SPEAKER_02:America went to war again.
SPEAKER_06:Between the United States and the Japanese Empire.
SPEAKER_02:Today and every day, we salute the members of the greatest generation who fought to protect our freedom. Remembering Pearl Harbor, AM 1070 and FM 1033, the answer.
SPEAKER_12:Let's do the twist.
SPEAKER_08:Oh, like this.
SPEAKER_07:There we go. Oh yeah. Whatever you memorize this. This is great. Okay. Welcome back to a show of faith on AMT7 the answer.
SPEAKER_08:David, can you understand uh dear rabbits too?
SPEAKER_11:David? No, I I mean I I can't uh I can't make out anything he's saying is so badly uh Yeah, he's never understood me, so you know. But yeah, I'm not sure. I I've heard distortion before, but never never says this.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah. Um but can you hear me?
SPEAKER_11:I can hear you pretty well, yeah. Okay. Yes. That's all you need. All right, David All I need is to is one of you to interpret the other.
SPEAKER_07:I have no idea what he meant what he means. David, what is your favorite translation besides besides the one you directed, you you headed up.
SPEAKER_11:Are you asking about my favorite translation?
SPEAKER_12:Yes.
SPEAKER_11:Oh, okay. Uh I my favorite is the original languages, which is Greek and Hebrew. Well, I mean, I do think every time we translate something into another language, we miss something. Uh but in the meantime, I I'm I'm using now the new revised standard version a lot. I'm using uh also the uh English Standard Version as well, although there are problems with both of those translations.
SPEAKER_07:There's always problems. It's like the Italian, which I'll mispronounce, is something like traditori tradutori, which means the translator is a traitor. And I think that that's pretty accurate. There's not a single translation, Jewish or otherwise, that I I like. Because I I like you, I go to the Hebrew. Well, you go to the Hebrew and the Greek, but I go to the Hebrew, and there's always something drastically lacking. When I when I was on the pulpit and I would want to point something out in that week's reading, that week's Torah portion, it wouldn't be in the translation. In invariably, every week. There's not a single translation I know of that I really enjoy that I really like.
SPEAKER_08:Well, for me, um being the least learned of the three of us. Well, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07:I disagree with you there, but go ahead.
SPEAKER_08:I do not speak or understand neither Greek nor Hebrew, but I do understand Spanish. And that's something you guys don't. So um so uh what?
SPEAKER_07:If Rudy were here, he would uh jump in there.
SPEAKER_08:Well yeah, you know, but he he's a kid. Uh but uh my favorite translation um is the NRSV.
SPEAKER_07:Is the newly revised standard version? Yeah. Yes. My NRSV. See, I I I like the revised standard version and the newly revised standard version. Yeah. Because sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes, if they've chosen a translation based on something other than the Hebrew, sometimes they'll tell you about it. And then they'll say, but the Hebrew says in the notes underneath. Yeah. That that's the RSV and the NRSV do that.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah. I I I really now the English, what David, what is the name of that? The English Bible? The English Standard V uh version of the Bible. That is very beautiful, too.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah, it's well done. I mean, you know, I as Stuart knows, uh, I was involved in a translation project a number of years ago, uh, and I found more and more times that I've agreed with what the King James Bible had said. Um the way it rendered things, the artful way. There was there was a beauty to it uh that that we don't see in a lot of translations as they're trying to uh in a way make them more understandable, more modern, et cetera. But uh it we sometimes you lose out, particularly on poetry, where you you you don't get this this poetic sense that you you have. Found in in other trans in other in the King James, that is.
SPEAKER_07:Or it becomes so poetic that it loses its connection with the original. There are words that sneak in because they're poetic sounding, but there is no word in the entire v verse where that word used in the translation appears.
SPEAKER_08:Can you understand him at all, David?
SPEAKER_07:Can you hear me or not hear me? Understand me or hear me? Which one do you mean?
SPEAKER_08:Understand.
SPEAKER_07:Okay.
SPEAKER_08:I think David can hear you.
SPEAKER_07:Okay.
SPEAKER_08:But David, can you understand him?
SPEAKER_07:David? I think David just clicked off somehow. But what I'm for example, uh in a translation, they might, instead of saying, The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want, they might say, The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want food. But the word food doesn't appear in the Hebrew. But not that, that's a poor example. But what I'm trying to refer to is where they're trying to sound poetic and they will add words like that because they make it poetic sounding, but they're not in the original. Yeah. It's really taking liberties with the translation. And there are plenty of translations that do that. Drives me crazy.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, I think that the um the the NRSV and the English version are pretty good about the. No, they don't do that. But like for example, when you read the the expanded Bible.
SPEAKER_07:The what?
SPEAKER_08:The expanded Bible? Um documentary. No, it's not a tran is that a Catholic translation? No, it's Protestant. It's a Protestant.
SPEAKER_07:Expanded translation?
SPEAKER_08:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:I'll look it up.
SPEAKER_11:I've never I'm trying to remember the exact title of it, but but it does, it it takes and expands upon it doesn't expand the meaning, but it it takes uh rather than choosing a single singular meeting, uh meaning for a word, sometimes it'll show the range of meanings with that word.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah. It it it and it puts them in parentheses or something like that. But like a never heard of it. Yeah, a word and it'll i it's actually not bad, but it's kind of disruptive when you're trying to read the scriptures and all of a sudden they're giving you they're actually telling you, well, this word could be translated as this, this, this, this, and they put it inside the text.
SPEAKER_07:Okay. So i it's just uh But you wouldn't call it a paraphrase.
SPEAKER_08:No, it's not a paraphrase.
SPEAKER_07:Okay. So no It's just picking which translation which they want to use.
SPEAKER_08:They're actually going through verse by verse, and whenever there is a contention as to the translation, they'll give you all the words that it could possibly be being interpreted.
SPEAKER_12:Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_11:So yeah, I mean part of it's just the tr the challenge of doing translations, Stuart was talking about. Uh there are there are lots of difficulties with trying to create a translation. Um because words don't have a one-for-one kind of uh uh equality, there is a sense. Uh it may take four English words to create and say what we're doing.
SPEAKER_07:Right. From one language to another. Yep. That's true. Because to convey the meaning of the word, it might need more words in a different language.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. All right.
SPEAKER_11:One of the things Stuart, and we can come back to uh and talk about this a little bit later, but w one of the things Stuart talked about was that he didn't really want to get into interpretation. But I I don't know that we can talk about this effectively without re regarding how you know, just because uh um, let's say one of the things that Christians don't believe is that there's 700 different meanings to every text, you know, um that you can trans you can pretty much just say whatever it is you think or feel at that particular moment, and that's what the text means. There are there are reasonable uh ways of going after and interpreting a text and saying what the text means. So I think we'd want to avoid trying to give people the in the the idea that just go out there and uh read it and just whatever it means to you, that's what it means. But David, I hear that all the time.
SPEAKER_07:But I hear that all the time because people will say even today, by the way, I read people saying, Well, I you know, the Holy Spirit spoke to me and told me this is what it means, and one person said they even wrote a book about it because the Holy Spirit spoke directly to them about the meaning of something. So it happens.
SPEAKER_08:The Holy Spirit just talked to me.
SPEAKER_07:And said, let's go to a break.
SPEAKER_08:That's right. 1070, Candy A, and we'll be right back.
SPEAKER_03:AM 1070. The answer. Do you have Medicare and do you use a CPAP machine? This is a national health care alert regarding your CPAP supplies. Using a clean CPAP mask and clean supplies is important to staying healthy. The best way to make sure your CPAP equipment is clean is to get new supplies. If you have Medicare, we have great news. Medicare will pay for you to have new clean supplies every 90 days. We'll even do all the paperwork for you to make sure that there's little to no out-of-pocket cost to you. And you don't even have to leave your home. We provide free in-home delivery. So if you're a CPAP user and you have Medicare, staying healthy with new CPAP equipment is easy. Just make this free phone call right now to get started.
SPEAKER_09:Sponsored by Specialty Medical. 800-254-1421. 800-254-1421. 800-254-1421. That's 800-254-1421.
SPEAKER_01:Non-attorney paid spokesperson. Could your house go into foreclosure? Are you behind on your mortgage payments? Foreclosure protection services can help save your home as they specialize in foreclosure assistance. If you're behind on your mortgage payments, being threatened with foreclosure, have been denied a loan modification, or been the victim of a predatory loan, call foreclosure protection services now at 800-978-0930. Their network of attorneys and their agents are available to speak to you now. Call foreclosure protection services now at 800-978-0930. That's 800-978-0930.
SPEAKER_02:It's no secret. The social media giants are silencing and censoring the conservative message. But you can be a part of the answer when you like and follow AM 1070 the answer. On Facebook, our Facebook page has the news and opinions you can trust, just like you hear from us each day. Go to facebook.com slash the answerhouston and click like. Stay in touch, stay informed. That's facebook.com slash the answerhouston. This is AM 1070 The Answer.
unknown:Johnny Angel.
SPEAKER_05:Johnny Angel Johnny Angel. You're an angel to shake. Johnny Angel, how I love him. How I tingle when he passes by every time he says hello, my heartbeat begins to fly.
SPEAKER_07:You scared me.
SPEAKER_08:He's got something that I can't say. You know, I've often wondered. But what I know to be love is so different from falling in love.
SPEAKER_07:Yes, we talked about that last week.
SPEAKER_08:I know.
SPEAKER_07:I just find it so you just wanted to remind people what we said.
SPEAKER_08:You know, no, I I when she when she said Johnny Angel, he's got something that I can't resist. And what is it that what is it that is occurring inside of us when you fall in love that you can't resist something in the other? There's something of God there, but I don't know what of God because it doesn't it's the yearning. Yeah, something like that.
SPEAKER_07:There's a it's a parallel of yearning. I'm yearning for the other and yearning for the other.
SPEAKER_08:I am constantly I am obsessed with figuring out what it means to be human.
SPEAKER_07:To be human. That's what religion's all about.
SPEAKER_08:So anyway, it's not much.
SPEAKER_07:As a matter of fact, I always say that in the same way that a computer is applied mathematics, religion is applied psychology.
SPEAKER_08:Well, actually, that's you know who would agree with you? A gentleman by the name of Carl Rahner. Great theologian Carl Carl Rahner.
SPEAKER_07:Oh, of course, yes.
SPEAKER_08:He would say he would say theology is anthropology amplified.
SPEAKER_07:Right. Well, speaking of anthropology, okay. Mario, uh we when we began our conversation, you said that you put your faith in Paul.
SPEAKER_08:No, I put my faith in God speaking through Paul.
SPEAKER_07:But what did you then what did you say about Paul's writing?
SPEAKER_08:That Paul's writing. You trust Paul. I trust him.
SPEAKER_07:Okay. And every book of the Bible has an author, okay, or or a transcriber, if you prefer. Okay, so God speaks speech with a God's speech came through humans.
SPEAKER_08:That's right.
SPEAKER_07:Humans wrote it down, humans tr uh you know, kept it going, handed it down to a generation, which handed it down to another generation. There is a trust there, a faith there. But doesn't that mean that all religion becomes the religion of men?
SPEAKER_08:Well, all religion is received by men. So it's not of men, but all isn't it?
SPEAKER_07:No. But if we're trusting a translation of men.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, but we believe that those translations are inspired.
SPEAKER_07:Well, that's what led me to the cup analogy I couldn't explain very well.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Because is it inspired of God? Is it not inspired, but the actual word of God? No. There's an analogy somebody wrote with a cup of water. I just don't remember what it is.
SPEAKER_08:See, the me it's the meaning. So I always like to compare this to the Quran. Because in the Quran, God is actually dictating the words of the Quran to Mohammed. So there is a one-to-one relationship of God speaking to Mohammed. There is no translation that can be done. It is God's word.
SPEAKER_07:Now in the Arabic. In Arabic God speaking to Moses and creating the five books of Moses.
SPEAKER_08:I know, but see, for example, i i i it's it's i it's uh in the Quran it is a dictation. And in the Bible, it is communication, not dictation. Communication meaning God may be using the context, the the meaning, the customs of the time, and all of that to the the people that are being so it's what we you and I call understand as progressive revelation, that God is not God is accommodating himself to the culture of the people so that he can make himself understood. But just like you would talk, baby talk to a baby, you and then as the Right, you have to speak the language of the person to whom you're talking.
SPEAKER_07:That's right.
SPEAKER_08:Right. But you know, the Quran, that's not the case. That's not the case.
SPEAKER_07:There is no dictation, those words came from God.
SPEAKER_08:And they are not culturally in the R.
SPEAKER_07:There's kind of a feeling like that with the Torah, with the five books of Moses and mo and receiving it from God.
SPEAKER_08:Yes, if we would not.
SPEAKER_07:But it's only the Torah, it's only the five books of Moses. You can't you cannot read the book of Psalms and think that the all the sentiments in there came from God.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, no. The Catholic understanding would be the whole scripture is is culturally isn't culturally conditioned.
SPEAKER_07:But if it's culturally conditioned, it's culturally conditioned according to what men write, that's correct, transcribe, transmit, translate.
SPEAKER_08:Which is ultimately for us, okay? That's why ultimately what? For us, ultimately, it cannot be interpreted by us without the insights of the Holy Spirit, without God helping us to interpret it.
SPEAKER_07:Okay, David, do you have a comment?
SPEAKER_11:Yeah, uh I I I think I'm following what you're saying. Yeah, the the the whole idea that I think you're you're aiming at here is is the the notion that yeah, in one form there's dictation, in the other there is just, as you said, communication or communication event in which God has inspired somebody to write something. And then it's inspired both it's not only inspired to be written, but it's also preserved. Yes, right in a way. Right. And so a part of a part of the preservation, a part of inspiration, is that God has chosen to preserve certain of these texts and not other texts. Most texts from the ancient world have been lost. You know, they they just go away because that there they didn't seem to have any value, I think, both from the community standpoint, but also from the standpoint of the uh of God. God there were a lot of books written, he said no to these particular books. But there was a process, a very rigorous process for choosing which books were included uh in the the the Christian Bible. Same thing with the Jewish Bible, too. Absolutely. Anything in is you know, the Genesis Apocryphon is not there. Uh the book of Jubilees is not in the Hebrew Bible, for example. Uh although these are dealing with Hebrew characters and times and those kind of things. The other thing is when you think about it, all of this is culturally conditioned.
SPEAKER_12:Right.
SPEAKER_11:I mean, even the language something comes in is culturally conditioned. That's great. Absolutely. You know, or some other, you know, in Chinese. Uh the language itself, the culture itself is reflective of these things. So good interpretation takes all of these contexts into consideration as we read them in the modern times against the ancient cultures.
SPEAKER_08:But if you were David, you would you would you say though, that um without bringing in God Himself, the Holy Spirit, um, to help us to get the correct interpretation, it without including that in the guarantee of of the transfer of meaning, I don't think we could actually uh be sure of anything. That's why to me, uh a person who has no faith, no no sense of of uh communion with God, I would not trust them to be able to uh interpret the scriptures correctly. Would you?
SPEAKER_11:Oh, that's that's exactly right. I I refer to that particular element is illumination. Um inspiration is the process of creating and preserving these texts. When the Holy Spirit, when we encounter these texts through the power of the Spirit, then uh we are illuminated in the same way that the ancients were. Uh our culture is different, our times are different, our language is different, but we still face this uh wonderful gift on our side of illumination from each things, and they speak to us in in various and sundry ways. And people all across the globe testify to this idea at some point when they come to faith in Jesus and and and are reading the text that as Father Mario said, there's something in their spirit that agrees with that, that speaks to them, and and these texts are a way of correcting us when we're wrong, of encouraging us when we're right, of of teaching us when we need to be taught. So they are they are fundamentally useful to us, um, and they are helpful to us in shaping our lives and and leading us to to God and and to salvation.
SPEAKER_07:See, David, Mario said something that it sh that you are lucky because you had the best of both worlds. You could be an academician, you could have an academic viewpoint of religion in general, the Bible specifically, but because you were teaching in a Christian environment, you didn't have to lose your uh I don't know what to call it.
SPEAKER_08:Illumination, by the way.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. But but my impression of academic study, of pure academic study of the Bible, of religion in general, of of anything in religion, is that they they have no they have no respect. No, that's not the right word. They have no connection to the divine. And so they're so academic that and they're so deeply trying to maintain this level of objectivity that there's something to be lost. That's why I never wanted to be a professor on a college campus.
SPEAKER_08:It's interesting because what's happening too is that they are excluding the um the the the deeper understanding in terms that a person who has faith can can have. And since they are limiting themselves to historical, to uh uh linguistic analysis and stuff like that, they cannot for at all interpret the deeper.
SPEAKER_07:Exactly. See that that's that's see David can do that because he's on a religious canvas.
SPEAKER_08:For me, I just want to say one last thing for us, for me as a Catholic, this would be excluding David a little bit, and that is that for us, the ultimate interpretation of any text is uh uh reserved to the hierarchy uh of the church. Because we don't we we don't believe any w any that we believe that the full interpretation of any text has to be done m especially by the Pope and the well and the bishops, because ultimately you can interpret the you can say, God told me that this, God told me that.
SPEAKER_07:Right, anybody can, but if you're outside the the chain, that's what you mean by hierarchy. You can come up with anything.
SPEAKER_08:That's right. That's why the the the the ultimate interpretation for us is okay, when you have ten to ten different people saying it means ten different things, you say, What does the hierarchy say? Because we believe that the hierarchy is is being guided by the Holy Spirit for that.
SPEAKER_07:Ultimately Judaism is not the religion of the of the Hebrew scriptures. It's not the religion of the Old Testament. It's the religion of the 4,000 year history of the relationship of the Jewish people to the Hebrew scriptures. And how they've looked at it and analyzed it and made it current and Catholicism, Protestantism is the same thing. It's not the religion of the New Testament. It's the religion of the interpretation of the New Testament over 2,000 years.
SPEAKER_08:Okay, I wouldn't disagree with that, but you know what I would disagree with?
SPEAKER_07:Then we have to go to a break. How can I read you so well?
SPEAKER_08:Because we've been on each other for a long time and we look at the clock. That's right, this is AMTH 1070 and we'll be right back.
SPEAKER_04:AM 1070 the answer. Hey there fellow travelers it's me, the Hotel Wiz. Before you go anywhere, call me day or night for hotel rates too low to publish. I'll save you up to 75% on over 500,000 hotels across the globe. You see, I've already done the research so you don't have to spend time online trying to find the best deal. That's up to 75% off. Just call me the Hotel Wiz. It's a free call and you get instant access to rates too low to publish with no cancellation fees.
SPEAKER_03:Make a free call now and save up to 75% off your hotel rooms the next time you're going somewhere for business or pleasure. Call the Hotel Wiz Now and get instant access to rates to low to publish.
SPEAKER_09:800 61917 8006198917. 8006198917 call the Hotel Wiz right now at 800 61917.
SPEAKER_00:Our brave military men and women make tremendous sacrifices for our freedom patriotic Hearts is dedicated to supporting these heroes by donating your unwanted card to Patriotic Hearts you'll be supporting job transition and job fair programs, veteran entrepreneurship, counseling and retreats for combat veterans and their spouses. Call 800-851-6067 you'll receive a tax deduction and we'll arrange a free pickup at your convenience. Call 800-851-6067 to donate your unwanted car.
SPEAKER_02:After all communism is the next step after socialism both know they can change America by dismantling or neutering the Second Amendment. Without it they know they can control Americans that's why Armed American Radio is here. Join Mark Walters as he keeps you up to date on your right to own arms armed American Radio the three hour monster show.
SPEAKER_11:Sunday night at 9 1 a.m let me say I I would a couple of things uh number one one of the things Protestants try to do is try to avoid a interpretation and a value of scripture that is just for the head only that is just for the academic we we think that human being being human beings going back to Father Mario's question about anthropology we are both heads and hearts uh people of of I wouldn't say emotion is as much as devotion uh people of devotion so we we join together as often as we can the the academic the head reading with the heart reading I think that's that's important to say we don't have a hierarchy who can interpret the text the way that Father Mario uh described but we do have a 2,000 years of Christian tradition. We have the early church fathers who were individuals that were within the same roughly the same culture, the same time, the same language and we look to them very often as kind of for clarity and in trying to understand what uh what these people of the first century at the time of Jesus were were saying. So we we do hold high in our consideration and interpretation not only the the the the kind of the academic the head stuff but also the devotion and the tradition self that that has been reading these texts now for the last two thousand years. But basically Christian text basically David you would be I would say that uh uh Protestants do not have a supreme court we don't no we don't yeah that's and and there are a lot of different versions of Protestantism too I mean there are bishops within certain ranks and and church and denominations.
SPEAKER_08:No because he go ahead.
SPEAKER_07:Well I was just gonna say but David there's still some people's writings that are going to be much much more influential than others and I'm gonna get the name wrong but there's a William Henry commentary that I've looked at a lot you know it's been a while.
SPEAKER_11:William Henry is that the name Yeah I I mean there's certain there are certain resources that we look to uh exactly as being more more valuable and more helpful than others uh we're always sort of looking for the the better commentary the better resource the better uh contextual references to help us get a sense of what the text are so we're constantly in that sort of search for and dealing with the ancient cultures, the ancient languages and such in order to try to read these texts for all their work.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah but you know David I I I I I I still find it uh hard um to um to see how Protestantism and granted that's not even okay it's it's it's um almost a word that doesn't mean anything but it it's I I I was watching this weekend a a a chronology on YouTube of the destruction of the Episcopal church and the Anglican church. The destruction of it Oh god yes I mean uh they were they were uh analyzing the membership of the Anglican and the Episcopal church from the nineteen fifties all the way up to today. You mean like over issues and splitting individual churches kind of thing or yeah and and the fact that uh I think that uh they have gone down by sixty some percent uh in terms of attendance and the the whole idea of of female now which you w with what you have with the Archbishop of Canterbury uh being a woman you know now and uh gay uh gay unions and gay priesthood and normalizing that and it's both Anglican which is uh England and the Episcopal which is very interesting because the you could see that there was no uh ultimate Supreme Court. And when there was a real dist uh a real difference of opinion um there the only the only ability to do that to resolve that was to split and uh it's interesting because I I was listening to a commentator uh on that and he was used the example of the United States and he's saying imagine that a group in the United States doesn't agree with uh the interpretation of the Constitution and so what they do is they try and secede which is what basically the Civil War was. So if you know without if you don't have a Supreme Court in some way or another you're in danger of uh constantly splitting.
SPEAKER_11:Would would you would you agree with that David Yeah I I I would I would I think that that is one of the challenges Protestants do have um in terms of the record let me just say that that Anglicanism the Anglican church consists of a of a lot of different communions groups and only in the United States or in the West is it receding at that rate at that 60% rate Anglicanism in in China Anglicanism in in Europe uh I'm sorry in in Africa uh South America it's very very strong David um vocabulary lesson you said the Anglican church had different communions and I'm not clear on the meaning um well let me there's there's the Anglican Church of North America which is on the conservative side socially and theologically is that the same as Episcopalian the Episcopal church is the Anglican communion in the United States Episcopal church. So that's the one that uh he uh Father Mara was referring to that is the people who think that they've gone too far to the left yeah um in the social and and and theological sense.
SPEAKER_08:David could you say that the Anglican that that the Anglican church in itself does not exist anymore that it exists as a bunch of different denominations I wouldn't say that at all.
SPEAKER_11:I would I would say that it's changing it's evolving it's shaping this is this is post Vatican uh two kind of uh uh changes you know that that have gone on and uh it it's it's fairly extreme and there are going to be some people that that have their trouble finding their foothold in in that in both of those but but the worldwide Anglican communion the larger sense is on the more conservative side of the but wouldn't you say that that that the only thing that's holding them a not all of them but hold a lot of them together is just the name because it's I don't think so because if you uh the there's a there's a document called the thirty nine articles which is in the Book of Common Prayer which is thirty nine doctrinal elements basically and I would say that uh every Anglican um communion every Anglican group will um look to those statements as being authoritative as being you know a kind of a guide to faith it is in a way it's it's it analogy wise it's kind of like the uh the hierarchy yeah it's it's a document that that nobody I don't think people are contesting that they're contesting other things about it necessarily uh uh that that are more social these days theologi the liberalism etc yeah and conservativism but I but I I think there's a whole lot holding Anglicans together.
SPEAKER_07:Okay I don't think it's just a bunch of disparate uh congregations that are that are coming it's coming to be also when you talk about the Anglican which is England which is Europe they're having all sorts of problems with the Christian community or you know because of other pressures. So not I'm not convinced that that's related to the internal denominationalism but rather just simply the European culture and takeover. Yeah so all right we're uh almost out of time but very interesting topic I I have a another question but we may not have time for any real dealing with it and that is you know that I've said that the book of Ecclesiastes is my favorite book of the Bible that's not what I'm asking the book of the Bible but in the Bible there are individual stories or narratives I I would say that my favorite narrative would probably be Poro that would probably be the book of Esther. Do you all have a favorite narrative favorite singular story like a section of a book or just John chapter one okay but that's not a narrative that's not a story.
SPEAKER_08:In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and well that's my favorite.
SPEAKER_11:But that's still your favorite okay David um you know I refuse to answer that question is on the grounds that it might increase incriminate you okay um no look whatever well honestly whatever I'm working on at that moment is kind of my favorite I'm I'm writing now my a second book on the book of Matthew so I continue to uh find that book exhilarating interesting but challenging my one of my next projects is going to be writing a commentary on the book of Philippians and when I get to that in a few years a couple of years down the road I'm gonna I'm just gonna be eating drinking and thinking Philippians all the time.
SPEAKER_02:So it's sort of it it just you know I don't have any favorites honestly I find them all interesting and and elevating and uh all boats rise uh when it comes to scripture all right that's actually pretty good I think so I still my still John is my still my favorite button say it again John is still my favorite right yeah well but do you trust do you trust John I do trust John okay all right good good for you faithful witnesses who's in charge next week um gosh I think Rudy no I think it's David that may be me so God willing I'll be better I'll be feeling better have gotten over COVID and I will be ready David Mario mead David then Rudy so David you're next you're next right there we go and hopefully we'll have Rudy back yes yes yes he got an invitation to go watch a uh children's choir concert for Christmas ah yes yes the children's choir right that's a big big draw thank you for listening to us here on the show of faith please join this week keep us in your prayers because you are going to be finding at AM107 eveanswer.com download our apps stream us twenty four seven K N T H and K two seventy seven D E F M Houston