Episode 178: Proverbs For Real Life

Some Bible verses feel like they were written for comment sections, group chats, and the one friend who cannot stop “helping” other people’s arguments. We take a tour through the Book of Proverbs and let its blunt, practical wisdom confront how we fight, how we speak, and how we choose what kind of people to become.

We start with Proverbs 26:17, the line about grabbing a dog by the ears, and connect it to the temptation to meddle in conflicts that do not belong to us. From there we talk about what it takes to communicate wisdom well: sermon prep as mining and cooking, the difference between truth and delivery, and why stories can make moral teaching land without turning it into a lecture. One rescue-at-sea analogy opens up a bigger question about how people respond to God even when their understanding is incomplete.

Then we tackle relationships and character formation through Proverbs 31 and Proverbs 21:9, reframing the “virtuous woman” as a capable leader and business-minded manager, not a possession, and treating “brawling” as a warning sign about constant conflict at home. We also get into humility and pride, responsibility and repercussions, and what “fear of the Lord” means when it is closer to awe than terror, the kind of reverence that keeps appetite and ego in check.

If you care about biblical wisdom, theology and philosophy, marriage and commitment, moral realism, and living with integrity in a feelings-driven culture, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share this with a friend who loves Proverbs, and leave a review with the proverb you want us to unpack next.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

There's something happening here, but what it is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there. A telling me I got to beware. I think it's time we stop. Children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Welcome to a show of faith on AM107 the Answer, where millennial professor, priest, and rabbi discuss theology and philosophy, morality and ethics, and anything else we feel like talking about. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, and by the way, if you have any idea for topics you'd like us to cover, we would love to hear from you. Email us at ashow of faith1070 at gmail.com. That's a show of faith1070 at gmail.com. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard. Our priest is Father Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St. Cyril of Alexandria, the 10,000 Block of Westheimer.

SPEAKER_09 1:12

Mucho bueno to be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Uh yeah, right. Watch your language. Our professor is David Capes, Protestant Minister and Director of Academic Programming for the Lanier Theological Library, but he couldn't be here tonight. Rudy Kong is our millennial systems engineer and has his master's degree in theology for the University of St. Thomas. Are you here? He's not here yet. Oh, okay. I am Stuart Federer, retired rabbi of Congregation Shah's shalom, clear lake area of Houston, Texas. Crystal is our board operator, and she helps us sound fantastic. Tonight, I am show director. Our topic is the Proverbs. The book of Proverbs in the Bible. And I asked the hundred people who are going to be here tonight, looking like you and me. Uh to come with Proverbs that you enjoy, that you like, and you want to talk about. So, Mario, you're gonna lead us off. Okay.

SPEAKER_09 2:07

Do you want super serious or do you want somewhat humorous?

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Uh well, I'd like humorous, but you know.

SPEAKER_09 2:13

Okay, okay. Well, we'll start with that. Uh Proverbs 26, chapter 26, verse 17. Proverbs. Chapter 26. 26. Verse 17. Why don't you read it?

SPEAKER_03 2:29

Verse 17. He that passes by and meddles with strife belonging not to him is like one that takes a dog by the ears.

SPEAKER_09 2:40

It's funny, but but think about it.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Oh no, it's funny, but it's actually accurate.

SPEAKER_09 2:46

Imagine that you get involved in a quarrel that is not your own, and and you have two dogs fighting, or you and you take two one of them by the ears, you're not going to do what very well. No. Which the proverb to me has always meant stay out of other people's stay in your lane, stay out of other people's quarrels.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

And people do this all the time. Look at Facebook. People join in with arguments, they don't have the slightest idea what they're talking about.

SPEAKER_09 3:14

I have a friend who comments on everything, and she's got constantly getting into trouble. Constantly getting into trouble. She can comments on anything.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

I I've told you this one before, but my favorite cartoon regarding the internet is this it's clearly late, late, late at night. The wife comes in to tell her husband, come on, it's time to go to bed. And the caption is he's talking to his wife, and he says, I can't go to bed now. Someone on the internet is wrong. Yeah, and it's his wife. No, it it's anybody. He's got he can't let go. He sees something. Oh, somebody in the internet is a woman. Somebody on the internet is wrong. That that's kind of me too, by the way. I yeah.

SPEAKER_09 3:58

Do you get do you get into fights or I mean into comments with people?

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Oh yeah. Usually about religion.

SPEAKER_09 4:06

It's i i it's in I never have.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

And what do you are do you go to places like Facebook or TikTok or whatever?

SPEAKER_09 4:14

Yeah, but I usually may I everybody in everybody who's listening is exempted from a mad up I'm about to say.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 4:23

Most of the time I think people are just stupid.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_09 4:27

And so I just I just, you know, they're not worth my time.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Oh, I agree. And they actually, which is not one of the ones I've chosen, but there's a proverb about basically if you pick a fight with a fool, who's the fool?

SPEAKER_09 4:43

Yeah. Because it's just there's just too much good things in the world in the world, and I don't need to go around. Right, chasing chasing drama. See, you know, see, like I will I I will spend a lot of time getting a sermon ready. A lot of time. Okay. Okay. But I have the ability I have the ability and also the desire to get up in front of people, and I for me, giving a sermon is like mining. Okay. I mine and I try to get the best out of the ground.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Mining.

SPEAKER_09 5:22

Mining.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Like a miner.

SPEAKER_09 5:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 5:24

Yeah. And I try to get the best out of the ground. Or the other the other image I have of of being a preacher is being a chef.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

Absolutely. You know? Absolutely. I'm not sure how you mean it, but I understand how I mean it.

SPEAKER_09 5:37

In other words, I know my kitchen.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

Right.

SPEAKER_09 5:40

And I know the spices, and I know the sauces, and I know what we've got. And so I I say, okay, what I have today, and I look at the gospel, look at the other readings, and I go, this is what I have to cook. Right. And so the question is, how do I cook it?

SPEAKER_03 5:58

And you also know the nutrition that your congregants need to consume.

SPEAKER_09 6:04

Because I have a good friend of mine who says that the church's teaching are meant for your growth, and it should be nutritious and delicious.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

And nutritious and delicious. And and delicious, yes, but what do you mean by nutritious?

SPEAKER_09 6:20

Well, good for you, good for your body, souls. Yeah, for your soul, nutritious, all of it.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

Right. You've got to feed your soul like you feed your body.

SPEAKER_09 6:29

But see, a lot of times people a priest may give a nutritious sermon, but he cooked it so badly that nobody wants to eat it.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Right.

SPEAKER_09 6:38

You know, so the guy may be saying something tremendously great and profound and meaningful, but nobody's listening. Nobody's listening because he did it so badly. And also not only that, presentation.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

How you say it.

SPEAKER_09 6:53

Yeah. I mean, think about well, think about this in the terms of food.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 6:57

Somebody serves you a tremendously great tasting, nutritious meal that looks like crap.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

Right.

SPEAKER_09 7:06

You don't feel like eating it.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

You don't want to eat it. No. It repulses you. It repulses you.

SPEAKER_09 7:11

And so it's not only got to be nutritious and delicious, it has to be well presented.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Mario, says it's just you and me and Crystal here. Let me ask you a question.

SPEAKER_09 7:21

Let's make believe Crystal's.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

I can't see her, so she's very funny. Mario. What are your techniques for sermonizing? Do that make sense? Yes. Some of my best sermons, I must say, in my opinion, my best, came from rock and roll songs. See, my technique science fiction stories.

SPEAKER_09 7:46

No, see, my technique is not quite that.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Well, I meant like like lesson plan.

SPEAKER_09 8:01

I I make up stories.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Oh, there we go.

SPEAKER_09 8:05

I make up stories. Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

You know, like uh uh I I I like even like two men walked to into a bar one, no, just kill me.

SPEAKER_09 8:15

No, I I for example, I have a story cut people, you know, Christians are a little weird about this, but can somebody who does not believe in Jesus say be saved?

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Thank you. Yes, absolutely the answer. Let's move it. No, go ahead.

SPEAKER_09 8:28

No, have have you heard my story about that?

SPEAKER_03 8:30

Uh yes.

SPEAKER_09 8:32

It's that two uh I say, let listen to this story. Two men are in a boat, and the boat blows up, right? And they're both in the water and they're c clinging to a piece of wood. One of them is blinded and the other one can see. The helicopter comes from the Coast Guard, and the guy who is and then I ask the people, can both men be saved? And they go, Well, yeah. And I say, even the blind man. Well, yeah. And so I say, Well, what advantage does the seeing guy have over the blind man? Well, he can see the coke and he can see the rope and he can see the coast guard. And uh the blind man he can't see the the Coast Guard, he can't see the helicopter. He just knows that there's a lot of wind and noise, and he thinks it's a thunderstorm. He thinks because there's wind and everything going on. And yen he feels an arm reaching out to him and he goes, Oh, my nephew has come to pick me up. He knows he knew that we were dis we exploded, and my nephew is rescuing me. He's wrong about the conditions, he's wrong about who's saving him, and he's wrong about his nephew.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

But he can still be saved.

SPEAKER_09 9:44

But he to the degree that he cooperates with the di the experience of the hand, whatever is reaching into his life that is experiencing.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

That's a great story. That's a great analogy. Yeah, and by the way, Mario, thank you.

SPEAKER_09 9:57

Oh, you're you're welcome. Because that's all you need to do, is you need to go be able to grasp whatever you sense is pulling you up. Right. That's what you need to do. Right. Because that is God's presence in your life.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Right. A relationship with God, however you may see him.

SPEAKER_09 10:12

That's right. Because now ultimately, that that means that that uh it because people say, well, then what's the purpose of preaching? What's the purpose of of teaching? And I said, because you can refine your ability to cooperate. The man who sees is able to cooperate more. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

And by telling stories, the fact that the hand is there becomes clearer.

SPEAKER_09 10:34

Aaron Powell That's right. That's right. And so for uh for for me, that's that's what what I do I do. I make up stories, you know.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

And that's a great uh I like that. I've stolen it. I mean, I'm I've I've played your. I mean, uh I've I've used that's the word I've used other stories you've told.

SPEAKER_09 10:51

Please. You like in the yours. Yeah, thank you. Do it do it, do it. Right. Take it. Now, what's your proverb? Well well, we gotta go to no, we're not yet. What time is it? No uh we got three minutes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Okay. Well, this is an important proverb to me because I think it's completely misunderstood.

SPEAKER_09 11:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

And it's misunderstood because of our uh highly influenced by feminism uh viewpoint. Okay. And it's the 31st Psalm pr 31st proverb about the virtuous woman. Okay, good. Because uh I think it's misunderstood. But it says, and it's a long one, who can find a virtuous woman for her price is far above rubies, the heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. She seeks wool and flax and works willingly with her hands. She is like the merchant's ships, she brings her food from afar. She rises also while it is yet night, and gives meat to her household and a portion to her maidens. She considers the field and buys it. With the fruit of her hand, she plants a vineyard. She girds her loins with strength and strengths her, strengthens her arms. She perceives that her merchandise is good, her candle goes out not at night. She lays her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. She stretches out her hand to the poor. Yea, she reaches forth her hands to the needy. She's not afraid of the snow for her household, for all her household are clothed with scarlet. She makes herself coverings in tapestry, her clothing is silk and purple, her husband is known in the gates, when he sits among the elders of the land. She makes fine linen and sells it, and delivers girdles unto the merchant. Strength and honor are her clothing, and she shall rejoice in time to come. She opens her mouth with wisdom, and her tongue is the law of kindness. She looks well to the ways of her household, and eats not the bread of idleness. Her children rise up and call her blessed, her husband also, and he praises her. Many daughters have done virtuously, but you excel them all. Favor is deceitful and beauty is vain, but a woman that respects the eternal, she shall be praised. Give her the fruit of her hands, let her own works praise her in the gates. People hear the first line. Her price is far above rubies. And they think chattel, they think ownership, they think and what this is saying is that she's more valuable than material wealth. She's more important to you. And psychologists, sociologists have said that who you choose for a spouse can be the single most important decision a person makes. But Mario, there's an aspect to this that I wanted to point out to people, and they miss it. They don't realize it. She's a businesswoman. She's she's she's running the business of the family. And in the ancient world, in the ancient Jewish world, the woman ran the home and the man studied to be able to teach the kids. Bible, Torah, Judaism. He learned while she ran the household. But the household is where the business was run out of. That's right. Go, go, go, go watch fiddler on the roof or something. Okay. That means that she's running the business. She's a businesswoman. That's what this is talking about. Not some chattel or or or something you equate with jewelry like a pretty little thing. No. She's running the house. She's a businesswoman.

SPEAKER_09 14:28

When we come back, I want to point you to another proverb that is the sister of that proverb.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_09 14:35

Okay. This is KMTH 1070, and we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_06 14:40

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unknown 15:11

Johnny Angel.

SPEAKER_07 15:23

Johnny Angel, how I love him. How I tingle when he passes.

SPEAKER_09 15:41

Okay, welcome back. Welcome back, I'm gonna have you look up another proverb that is a sister to this proverb you just said.

SPEAKER_11 15:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 15:49

This one's a shorty. I want you to look up Proverb number chapter 21, number nine.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Twenty-one verse nine? Yes. It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop than with a brawling woman in a wide house. That's not exactly what I would call a sister to the No, I mean it's antithesis. Housetop? Is that like roof? Than with a brawling woman in a wide house.

SPEAKER_09 16:20

I meant the antithesis.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Oh, oh, okay. Well you're meant the antithesis. And that is That's why you have to choose your spouse's. You have to.

SPEAKER_09 16:29

That's why to me, when people see, I I have a particular bugaboo in my for me. I hate it. I hate it when I hear people say I fell in love.

SPEAKER_11 16:44

Falling in love again.

SPEAKER_09 16:46

I hate it because the what bothers me is the verb to fall. Because it's involuntary. Yeah, that's something you're not supposed to do. And what happens Especially at our age. But what happens is you're not making a decision. You're following your feelings. Feelings. Well, because you can't control your feelings. Right. And you you fall in. That's why you hear people say, Well, I fell out of love with you. Now think about that. I fell in and I fell out.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Yeah, like a boat. You fall into the boat and you fall out of the boat.

SPEAKER_09 17:21

You can't make any you can't make any commitments because you're It's feelings.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Because it's all feelings-based. It's all feelings. It's not intellectually based.

SPEAKER_09 17:31

Commitment is intellectual. Oh, well, actually, it's me would you say intellectual? I always say mental or mental intellectuals.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

That's what to me that's the same thing. Okay. It's what I meant.

SPEAKER_09 17:41

It's it's a decision.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Right.

SPEAKER_09 17:43

You know where the word decision comes from?

SPEAKER_03 17:46

It's very something cut. Yes.

SPEAKER_09 17:50

Yeah. C day. C day, C I D E means to cut. Right. So that's why you have homie C day.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

Right. Cutting. The same.

SPEAKER_09 18:00

No, homicide, homicide. Right. Insecticide. Right. Suicide. Right. You know? So all uh it means so to decide to make means to make a cut. And cuts are permanent. When you make a decision, you are you can repair the cut a little bit, but it will always look like it's been cut. Like a like a scar. A scar. Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

That's right. Although I'm not sure I want marriage to be equated to a scar.

SPEAKER_09 18:28

No, I mean some people no, if you if you if what I'm talking about, a scar is if you made the wrong decision and you get a divorce, you'll find you are gonna bear that scar.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

There's a tuneudic saying that Yeah, I'm pretty sure I can say this on the air. That a couple in love can make their bed on a razor blade, but a couple who f no longer love each other, no bed is wide enough.

SPEAKER_09 18:57

Whoa.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

Right. Yes.

SPEAKER_09 19:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_09 19:03

That's also and I see that all the time. And we are in such a feeling-based society. I can't stand it. Even the news, you know. Everything. Everything you everything. A news person will go up, go up. How do you feel about and then going, I don't give a crap.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Yeah. You just lost every person you've ever loved. How do you feel about I feel bad. Yeah. Right. Because feelings sell time on the air. Feelings sell newspapers. Feelings that's why if it bleeds, it leads. Because it evokes feelings. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_09 19:37

Yep. Okay, let me my I'm gonna do one. Go ahead. Okay. My next one is um this is a uh I'll I'll do a serious one. Um you're no fun. Uh chapter 26, verse 12.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 19:57

Let's see your translation.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

Chapter 26, 12.

SPEAKER_09 20:02

My translation is do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Right. And that's true.

SPEAKER_09 20:11

You know, it's it's very interesting.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Isn't it interesting how wise the authors of Proverbs have been?

SPEAKER_09 20:20

Yeah. It's interesting because today, I had this experience today. I gave a a homily that I w worked hard on, and um I felt I felt good about it. But as I was feeling good about it, I that's when I started, you know, I wonder if people like it. And immediately I had to look at look up at God and say, Lord, help me not to believe my own bull uh poo-poo. Say that again. Help me not to believe my own poop bull poo-poo.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Bull poop bull poop, yes.

SPEAKER_09 21:00

Because because because we can't say the word for excrement.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Right. Yes. The word the word that we would both prefer sometimes to use. Or I use I usually say bull pucking. But we would never use that in public. Oh no, no. Never.

SPEAKER_09 21:17

Every once in a while I it slips out of my head. Yes. And people, oh Father said this.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Rabbi said this. Yes, I know. But a lot of times it doesn't stop me.

SPEAKER_09 21:30

But but you know, it is do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hopeful fool than for him. Right. The moment that you start believing your own press, you're in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

And you know why? Because a fool can wise up, but a conceited person never recognizes their own flaws. That's correct. Right.

SPEAKER_09 21:49

They can't they can't even see. They they are so high on themselves that they can't see themselves.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Right.

unknown 21:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 21:55

I've always maintained that humility is not looking down. On yourself. Humility is knowing the truth of yourself in all of its warts and all of its normal normalcy. The truth of yourself. And the truth of yourself is humbling. If your the truth of yourself is andgrandizing, you're lying to yourself.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Right. And if you feel the need to have to, that's right.

SPEAKER_09 22:22

The truth of yourself. Because you can't tell a lot of people think humility means putting yourself down. Oh, I'm no good. I'm no, no, no, no. You're average, maybe you sometimes you have good points, sometimes you have bad points, sometimes you're wonderful, sometimes you're a pain in the butt. You know, all kinds of stuff. Because we're human. That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Mario, we are both retired. I cannot speak for you, but I know you pretty well. I bet it's the same. When I retired, I wasn't thinking uh I know me, and I wasn't thinking of my successes.

SPEAKER_09 22:56

I wasn't either.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

I was th exactly. I I was thinking of my failures. I was thinking of the mistakes, the real mistakes that I made. Things that I said that I shouldn't have said and things that I could have said but chose not to.

SPEAKER_09 23:10

Yeah, I have one addition to it. Because see, for me it's a little different than for you. I'm uh as a priest, I'm in pretty high demand. That's true. I am in very high demand. Like this past weekend, I did four services.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

Two in I don't have it in me. I don't have the ability to do that anymore. I I'm I'm back to work with my synagogue, filling in where I can, you know. And it's I'm older now, it's exhausting.

SPEAKER_09 23:43

I did two in Texas City Saturday night. So it was an hour there. I heard confessions for an hour, and the service for an hour and a half? And an hour and a fifteen minutes. Same thing. Two of them. And then I came back from Texas City, and then I got up this morning and I did one service in North Houston at Our Lady of St. John, and I did another service at um St. John Viani Catholic Church. And I spoke on the just war theory.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Wow. We've talked about that. Yeah, I've spoken. Probably a couple of times.

SPEAKER_09 24:18

Because I had a I had a uh my cousin came and tr called me and he said, I don't know how to pray with all the the wars going on, with Maduro being blocked out of the rain and Iran. And so I went through the process because the Catholic Church is not pacifist. And whenever we say the peace of the Lord be with you, I'm not talking about peace at any cost. It's not peace at Rome. You know, that's it's peace with people.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

And pacifists, all they're doing is letting somebody else fight their battle.

SPEAKER_09 24:48

That's right. I tell people you can't if you're a pacifist, you can't call the police.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

Right. Because all you're doing is a true pacifist.

SPEAKER_09 24:54

Yeah, because you're do all you're doing is delegating your violence. You're saying, I'm not going to dirty my hands.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

But let somebody else do it. Right.

SPEAKER_09 25:00

And right now I have to dirty mine.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

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President Trump on AN 1070, the answer.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

That was easy for me to say. So our discussion has to do with Proverbs, the book of Proverbs. And once upon a time long ago, there was a movie. I think it's been made a few times actually, maybe. I know it's been it was a play before it was a movie. Uh and it's based on the scopes trial. So 1920s, 1930s, a man in Tennessee is teaching a science class and is talking about evolution. And because he was teaching evolution, he got uh either arrested or they fired him. Yeah. And I think he was arrested actually for teaching evolution. And this was the court case over his teaching evolution in a public school. Yes. And it's a it's based on the when he when they wrote the play, it's actually a it's lifted right out of the dialogue. They lifted the dialogue right out of the court trial. That's correct. Okay. A lot of it, you know, is fiction, but a lot of it is fact also. The name of that is Inherit the Wind.

SPEAKER_09 28:58

That is a movie, and I if you have not seen it.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Frederick March and I don't know, but it's uh what's his name?

SPEAKER_09 29:05

If you haven't seen it, go get it.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 29:08

It's excellent.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_09 29:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_09 29:11

Although the picture of faith that they present there is not a great one.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Uh I'm not sure I agree with you, and here's why.

SPEAKER_09 29:24

Uh normally when you say why, you dance.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

What was the name of the not Fred Astaire, but the other dancer, I can't think of his name. Uh he plays a very cynical um newspaper reporter. And the the defense attorney, the guy who's defending the teacher for teaching about evolution, okay, comes across as not very religious. And when the newspaper reporter attacks the the prosecuting attorney, who's a very famous uh in the movies called uh Drummond, but in reality he was uh oh now I forgot his name, but he was a politician who ran for president like three times and used this to try to get back into politics and everything. And the defense attorney defends the prosecuting attorney and his religiosity. And the newspaper reporter says, wait a minute, you're supposed to be the atheist, you're supposed to be the one who does not like religion. And he responds basically with a defense of religion as an atheist. He's defending religion. So it's a it's a very interesting play on all sorts of but it's the title is based on a proverb. And the proverb is chapter eleven, and uh let's see. Uh wait a minute. The proverb is uh Oh, that's why. The Proverb is 1129. It's Proverbs chapter 11, verse 29. He that troubles his own house shall inherit the wind. The play's title is inherit the wind. He that troubles his own house shall inherit the wind.

SPEAKER_09 31:25

I think I know what inherit the wind means, but what connotations do you give that?

SPEAKER_03 31:32

That when you make trouble for people, you have to expect there to be repercussions and responsibility for what you've done. And Mario, one of the reasons why I chose this proverb is because so many people, again, going back to what we said about being online, they say things and do things, but don't want to have any responsibility for what they've said or what they've done. They they want to trouble their house, but they get angry that they inherit only the wind. They don't inherit anything. Because they gave trouble and problems to people.

SPEAKER_09 32:11

Yeah. And and it's so you inherit emptiness.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

They they inherit nothing. Yes. They don't get you you you you'd be a pain in the neck to your parents. They're gonna leave you, you're at the house.

SPEAKER_09 32:22

Well, I I thought at first you were talking about did you inherit blowback?

SPEAKER_03 32:25

Oh, no, no. No. To me, what that means is if you cause problems with your own household, they're not gonna leave you're gonna inherit nothing. You're gonna get nothing. Because this you're a pain in the neck to them, you're horrible to them, you're mean to them. Yeah. You know, how many times have we seen movies where you have a family and the child who took care of the grandparent, you know, is is not really expecting or wanting anything at the reading of the will. And all the greedy people who did nothing to help the grandparent is, oh, I'm gonna get this, I'm gonna, and then they get disappointed because they've inherited nothing or little or less than they thought they should get. Yep. A lot of movies like that. There's a great Michael J. Fox movie about like that, by the way. But that's what people do. They they they say things and expect no repercussions. They do things and expect no responsibility, they they take no responsibility for their behavior. You inherit the wind. Yeah. And then they why am I I don't understand why they're treating me this way. I don't understand why you're you're so mean to me. It's kind of related a little bit to karma. It is. And people, you know, karma is a not my thinking. No, it's a BIT. Yes, you know what I'm saying. But people don't expect it. They don't understand that there are repercussions for their behavior. They don't take responsibility of what they've said or done or thought.

SPEAKER_09 33:56

I am about to give you my most interesting proverb.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 34:02

The most interesting one, and I'd like your comment on it.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 34:06

Okay. Uh it is Chapter and verse. Chapter 23, verse 1. Let me read it.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Oh, thank you. Let me read it. Wait a minute, just to let you know, uh uh Sharon, our one of our past uh board operators and good friend. Uh you sound fantastic. Your mic's at great levels. Thank you, Crystal. Gene Kelly was the one playing the reporter. Yeah, and Spencer Tracy was the defense attorney for the teacher of evolution in the 1920s. Okay.

SPEAKER_09 34:43

You ready for this one? Yes. Okay, fair. Um verse uh chapter 23, verse one. Here's my transcript.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

Chapter 23, verse one. Okay.

SPEAKER_09 34:52

When you sit down to dine with a ruler, consider carefully what is before you. And put a knife to your throat if you are a man of great appetite.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

Okay, it goes on. Do not be desirous of his No no, but just that part. Okay. When you sit to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before you. Put a knife to your own throat if you are a man given to appetite. Um Okay. In other words, self-control?

SPEAKER_09 35:30

No, uh there's all kinds of different ways. Yeah, really. Um when you sit down to dine with a ruler, consider carefully what is before you. Now, what is before you? All good food, plenty of it. Yeah, but at the same time, see, notice, notice that what's before you, a ruler, if if you give in to your appetite, okay, and you're hungry and you give in to your appetite, you're if you give into your appetite, you're making yourself a target for a ruler who has the ability to cut you, to slice you up. In other words, don't be overly uh don't show your deck. Don't show me a glutton. Yeah, but it's more than food. Oh. It's it's also what you say. Um so that when because notice, when you sit down to dine with a ruler, consider what is before you. So what is before you? A tremendous amount of food, but the ruler. The ruler is before you. Okay, and he has power over you. Okay, and so if you if you reveal too much of your appetite, be them physical appetites or your opinions, that you're that that your opinions seem to be important, you're you're putting yourself out there. And what he says says, he says, um, put a knife to your own throat if you are a man of great appetite. Meaning, if you have a lot that will compete with the ruler, right, if you have a lot that you are can reveal about yourself, that that in other words, it's the old thing of never ask a question that you don't already know the answer to. Okay? Or um i it so to me I always want to consider not only what is before me, but who is before me.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

But Mario, don't we always eat in front of the ruler?

SPEAKER_09 37:41

Yes, but uh ultimately God, yes, but ultimately most people do not consider him the ruler.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

Unfortunately.

SPEAKER_09 37:49

Unfortunately, but true. Yes. That most people are not scared enough of God. I'm scared, very scared of God. Okay, in a good way. In a good way.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

I uh I see this is why I don't translate the word that's usually translated as fear. It's a horrible translation. It means to hold in awe, to have enormous respect for.

SPEAKER_09 38:12

Let me give you a story that I made up. Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 38:15

Imagine that you have a friend of yours that works at a zoo. A zoo.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

A zoo.

SPEAKER_09 38:22

And you go visit him, and they've gotten a brand new lion, and he's alone in the cage, and uh your friend says, It's that's the friendliest lion I have ever met. He's beautiful and he is friendly. Go on in. You can go in and you can pet him. And the lion is lying at the other end of the cage, and uh you walk in, and the lion is looking at you with those cat eyes, and you approach the lion. The question I have for you is do you tease the lion? Why not? He told you it was a good lion, he was a friendly lion. Do you tease it?

SPEAKER_03 39:02

And he'll stake friendly if you don't tease it.

SPEAKER_09 39:05

But notice what it is. That to me is fear of the Lord. You are God is good, but don't mess with him. God is good, but don't mess with him. He is the Lion of Judah.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

Right.

SPEAKER_09 39:19

And you don't mess with the lion.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Right. Don't tempt the eternal.

SPEAKER_09 39:23

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

Right.

SPEAKER_09 39:25

That's right. So to me, when I sit down before God, yes, before God, I look at what's before me, but I don't give in to my appetites. I put a knife before my throat and I say, listen, look carefully.

SPEAKER_03 39:40

Right. Be very careful how you act.

SPEAKER_09 39:43

How you act and what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Right.

SPEAKER_09 39:45

Because the knife to your own throat.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

It reminds me of a couple of scenes from The Godfather.

SPEAKER_09 39:51

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

Okay, where either they're not even eating, but they know exactly who's in front of them.

SPEAKER_09 39:56

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

And what they're capable of doing.

SPEAKER_09 39:58

And that's why that's why it's one of my favorite proverbs.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Right.

SPEAKER_09 40:02

Okay. This is 1070. And you know what, people? We have a knife to our throat. It's called commercials, and we have to go there. Bye. Bye. We'll see you on the next one.

SPEAKER_10 40:14

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SPEAKER_03 42:37

Welcome back to A Show of Faith on AM107 the Answer. Tonight we're talking about the Book of Proverbs in the Bible. And now it's my turn. And Mario, I chose these just for you. You know how we're always talking about philosophy, okay, theology, but with a philosophical viewpoint. We've also touched, I believe, on the main topic of the following. I have a collection. Okay. So Proverbs chapter 4, verse 7. Wisdom is the principal thing. Therefore, get wisdom, and with all your getting, get understanding. Proverbs 19, verse 8. He that obtains wisdom loves life. He that keeps understanding will find goodness. Okay. Let's see. Where was the other one? Wisdom is the he that gets wisdom. Okay, well, this is tangibly tangentially related. Proverbs chapter one, verse seven. The fear of the eternal is the beginning of wisdom. It is true. Why is it true? Why why does real real wisdom begin with acknowledging and understanding there is God.

SPEAKER_09 44:06

Because uh because your appetites um can lead you urges urges appetites and if you don't think there is any judgment anybody above you then uh you can uh get yourself in a real pickle if you follow your heart.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

That's a whole thing about the newest book by Dennis Prager is is I can't remember the exact title it's basically What if there is no God? Yeah I've seen that basic theme is exactly what you just said. If you don't understand there's a God above you and outside of you and one who ordains the moral and ethical truths then you're gonna really and it's a i I I I haven't bought it yet. I haven't read it yet obviously but I know what Dennis Prager well enough that I know exactly what he said because I've been following him since 83.

SPEAKER_09 45:04

You know the the thing about it is that uh that people a lot of people don't want there to be a God.

SPEAKER_03 45:11

Absolutely one of the one of the reasons given for anti-Semitism is that Jews brought God into the world and the rest of the world has never forgiven the Jews for it.

SPEAKER_09 45:22

I you know I that's very good.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

No that's not me that's actually uh a father who wrote a book on anti-Semitism a Catholic priest who wrote a book on anti-Semitism I can't think of his name right now. The the Flannery flannery uh I can't remember there's a flannery O'Connor No no there's his last name okay well it's like 1950s is you know not in not but I mean that's really true.

SPEAKER_09 45:52

Right. Because people there the people the moment that you understand that there is someone above you above you and outside of you that then determines what is good and what is bad, what is right and what is wrong. You're no longer able.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

Right.

SPEAKER_09 46:08

See that's why even though you and I disagree on the Well because I'm right in your but you and I disagree on the whole issue of regional sin. But the but that the issue is is this that that the tree of uh my understanding of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the symbol of g that in the ancient world knowledge meant power. And in the ancient world meaning if you had the knowledge of good and evil you could determine what is good and what was evil which is what the Catholic understanding is of these uh of the serpent the serpent says you don't have to be like you could you can be like God you don't have to follow him. You can determine for yourself what is good or for his evil.

SPEAKER_03 46:54

So if God says definitely not how we read it.

SPEAKER_09 46:56

That's right but if God says that's evil you can say no no I disagree with you that is good. Now what we're talking about is not original sin here. We're talking about the fact that the big temptation of humanity is there's nobody above me I get decide by whatever I want.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

And whatever I what and whatever I see is right and wrong is I'm right for me.

SPEAKER_09 47:15

That's right you can do you that's right because there is no objective right or wrong.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

Right. And as soon as there's no objective right or wrong there is no right or wrong. That's right.

SPEAKER_09 47:24

Therefore I can do what I want to do it's interesting it's interesting because when people say to me you know um evil I don't believe in God because there's evil in the world and I go wait a minute if there is no God there is no evil if there is no God everything is whatever uh there's no evil because evil presumes that there is some that there is a rule of the good and if there is no evil there there's no there's I mean there if there is no God there is no evil because everything loses its value.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

Nothing is up Mario I I'm can't rem can't remember her name all of a sudden but in the 1920s the prohibition movement had a woman who used to go to bars with a hatchet oh yeah I've seen I've seen her name or I don't remember her name but blaming God for evil in the world is like blaming that woman for a drunk driver. She's the one who says don't drink. God is the one who says be moral and ethical be good. Yeah. Blaming God for the evil in the world is blaming God for the people who don't listen to God. Like blaming this woman whose name I can't remember for a drunk driver but she's the one who tells them don't drink that that's my analogy. Yeah because God is the one who says oh I don't know thou shalt not murder and God is the one who says oh I don't know thou shall not steal don't stand idle while your neighbor bleeds in justice justice shall you pursue but the moment you say that there is a God that there then you're saying there's somebody over you. Right. And people don't want that no no the the the the job of being Jewish I would venture to say the job for the religious but the raison de etra is that the Jews bring morality and ethics into the world. We're reminders to the rest of the world that God exists and God demands moral ethical behavior from God's creatures.

SPEAKER_09 49:37

Well that's what you said because the Jews brought God into the world and they've never been forgiven for it.

SPEAKER_03 49:43

Right. Flannery I'll get the name I can't remember his name. But yes.

SPEAKER_09 49:50

Yeah it's it's sad but that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

Exactly right it's easier to live my life the way I want to than to have to tow somebody's line. Yeah I I it's really is amazing that that whenever I've met real people who really want to be atheists, they really just want to do what they want to do I have had many conversations with people who profess to be an atheist but when they say I'm an atheist I don't believe in God when you ask them about the God they don't believe in the world they describe a God that nobody believes in. Nobody believes in okay old man with a white beard sitting on a golden throne with angels flying around come on. It's funny because what is that there's a there the the first cosmonaut that ex that went into space he the one of the few things he said from space back is I'm out here in space there's no God here and my answer to that is look you blind that you may see because the stars and the planets it's just that sometimes atheists are haven't taken theology 101 it's they their understanding of God is so stupid that that's you know something yes on some levels it really is stupid because they've maintained their ignorance okay but on a real basis or not real on another level okay it it's not that they're stupid it's that they're ignorant they haven't done anything they they they have a they have a child's viewpoint of religion because they stopped learning when they were a child so what they learned about religion was a child's religion and as adults they reject the child's religion because they're not a child anymore. Yep. Mario I've met people in the Jewish community who stop their Jewish education at their bar bot mitzvah they have a 13 year old's viewpoint. I see that all the time it's like stopping with confirmation. Yeah okay I see that all the time and then they get angry at religion because they're approaching it like a 12 or 13 year old. That's right.

SPEAKER_09 52:18

You have a 13 year old and you're criticizing a 13 year old understanding of God and then you're wondering you know you think you're right but you only have 13 year old understanding so no wonder you're wrong.

SPEAKER_03 52:31

Mario there's I brought it up before there's quickly I know we're coming on to an end but there's a great movie Rudy called O God. Oh yeah I've seen it O God book two they're in an abandoned railroad uh uh uh depot and the little girl who's the star of the show asks George Burns playing God why is there evil in the world? What's the answer? He says you know I just had a hard time inventing a one-sided coin. Ooh that's interesting. I find that to be brilliant how do you know bad if you don't know good how do you know good if you don't know bad if all you know you know the the rich man who's never had a problem gets upset because he gets a cold kind of like I got right now okay it's the same kind of thing.

SPEAKER_09 53:24

Yep. Rudy just texted us a proverb the fear of the Lord it's Proverbs 17 of course this is one of the great ones a good one to to end in the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge fools despise wisdom and instruction. And that was another one that I had ahead see Psalm 17 yep and I know people bless their hearts God I know people who don't want to be taught who want to stay in a l elemental level of religion.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

All right Mario I know this is not what we were talking about but did you have any favorite proverbs that's not biblical? Yeah but I can't remember neither can I right now but I I wanted to at least ask you about that. Yeah no I think that's we need we should say some proverbs just real quick iron sharpens iron so a man sharpens the countenance of his friends Proverbs 2717 that's what we do here.

SPEAKER_09 54:24

Amen that's why we enjoy iron sharp iron iron sharpens iron yep that's why rocks are smooth because they bump into each other on the sea.

SPEAKER_10 54:34

Well you've been listening to KNTH and you've been listening to the show of faith and next week who's our show director we don't know but right now we have a goodbye have a good week seventy the answer.com download our apps stream us 247 KNTH and K277 D E F M Houston