A Show of Faith
Millennial, Priest, Minister, and Rabbi walk into a radio station...
A Show of Faith
Episode 180: Can People Really Change
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
“People don’t change” is one of those lines that sounds wise until you follow it to its conclusion. If it’s true, then New Year’s resolutions are pointless, repentance is theater, and growth is just a personality makeover. We’re not buying it, and we spend this hour testing the claim from every angle.
We dig into psychological determinism and why it can become a seductive, simplified worldview that explains everything while excusing anything. Then we get practical: what actually makes change possible? We talk free will, the limits of willpower, the need for motivation, and why “hitting bottom” can become the turning point. We also explore how community can either lock you into old patterns or help you build new ones, and we wrestle with the idea of second chances and whether we should be judged by our weakest moments.
The heart of the conversation is repentance and conversion as lived processes, not slogans. We compare Jewish teachings on repentance and making amends with Christian language about ongoing conversion, mercy, and the struggle to change even when you sincerely want to. Father Mario shares a raw personal story of crisis, fear, and finding hope in God, which leads into a bigger question: what is the goal, the telos, that our lives are moving toward? We close with spiritual growth as daily renewal and with tikkun olam, the call to repair the world through faithful, ethical action.
Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with someone who’s trying to change, and leave a review so more people can find us. What’s one change you’re working on right now?
Cold Open And Introductions
SPEAKER_16Something happened. What it is exactly There's a man with a gun over there. Tellin' me I got to get away. I think it's time we stop the children. What's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. The saddle lines being wrong.
SPEAKER_08Nobody's right if everybody's wrong, except for me. What? Except for young people speaking their mind.
SPEAKER_04Welcome to a show of faith where professor, priests, millennial, and rabbi discuss theology, philosophy, morality, and ethics, and anything else we choose to talk about. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, we would love to hear from you. Email us at a show of faith1070 at gmail.com. That's ashow of faith1070 at gmail.com. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard. Professor David Capes is our Protestant minister, director of academic programming for the Lanier Theological Library.
SPEAKER_15Gentlemen, good to be with you tonight.
SPEAKER_04Good to have you here, of course. Our priest is Father Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St. Cyril of Alexandria in the 10,000 Block of Westheimer.
SPEAKER_06Hello, hello, hear myself.
SPEAKER_04What'd you say? I can't hear you.
SPEAKER_06I said I don't hear myself.
SPEAKER_04Rudy Kong is our millennial. He's in a systems engineer, has his master's degree in theology from the University of St. Thomas. I am Stuart Federal, retired rabbi of Congregation Sha'ar Hashalom, the Clear Lake area of Houston, Texas. And Crystal is our board operator. She is the one who makes us sound good.
SPEAKER_06Not only that, she looks pretty good to you.
SPEAKER_15She's very bright. Very bright. Which is a good thing. It's about spring, isn't it? Spring is sprung. That's all.
SPEAKER_06I still can't hear myself.
SPEAKER_15What'd you say? She's gonna she's gonna work on that. Yeah, she's gonna work on that.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_15Is Rudy Kong? Is Rudy on the show? Rudy, do we hear you? Did you introduce Rudy?
SPEAKER_04I did. I'm here.
SPEAKER_15I'm here. Okay. And we're glad you're here. We are. We are, we are, we
Why Change Feels So Hard
SPEAKER_15are. All right, tonight we're I'm his show director, so I am taking over the show. Good, good. We're gonna be talking about, you know, now we are about uh a little more, almost four months into the new year, and I have a feeling that all of the new year's resolutions made in 2026 are pretty much on the ash heap, right? So I I thought it would be interesting tonight, and part of the readings of our in our church this week had to do with the idea of transformation and conversion and change. So I thought about the question: do people really change? You know, there's a school of thought out there that the idea is that people really don't change, they can't change, uh, that they're that they as people are sort of set by genetics, they're set by uh conditioning, they are set by uh the culture around them, they are set by the traumas that they've experienced early on, and there's there's this this idea that we are determined and that once you are a narcissist, you are always a narcissist. Once you are a murderer, you are always a murderer. Once you are a this or that, you're always that. So I thought we would talk tonight about change. Can people really change?
SPEAKER_06All those are full of poo-poo.
SPEAKER_04Oh well, I mean, well, we're human beings and we eat, so we get from the No, it's uh uh of course we're gonna disagree with that all the way through.
SPEAKER_06Yes. I mean they're talking about what's called determinism.
SPEAKER_15Yeah. And there's different kinds of determinism, right? Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I thought there was another word you were using when we were talking uh determinism.
SPEAKER_15No, psychological determinism. That that that's a that's a particular kind. Okay. You know, that that we're sort of set, just like our eye color is set and our height is set and our build is set, so our character, our habits, our temperament, all of that is set from the very beginning, and that doesn't really change.
SPEAKER_06You know, uh let me uh let me this is a serious thing. Um I have a definition, and I've said it here before, of
Determinism And A Lazy Excuse
SPEAKER_06of uh ideology or heresy, either way. But ideology in this case, I would call that uh determinism and ideology. And here is the definition, and this is my criticism of the whole thing you just said. A partial insight whose seductive simplicity is altogether more plausible than the whole truth.
SPEAKER_04Now translate that in simple terms.
SPEAKER_06In simple terms, that means a partial insight, okay? You've got a sliver of the truth. People are always going to be who they are, okay? But that doesn't mean it's a partial insight. Now the the insight the the partial insight gives you the think of, oh yeah, yeah, that's true. But it's a partial insight. You never get to the full insight that people are more than who they are at any given time, and they can develop. It's kind of like if you cook something, you put too much salt in it, it's gonna be salty, but that doesn't mean it has to remain salty. You can add more water, you can add some sugar, you can add things, and that will make it change. So all experiences make you change. And so it's a partial insight. The next part is a seductive simplicity. Anytime you have an insight that you are excited about, what you do is you tend to universalize that insight.
SPEAKER_15I see it everywhere.
SPEAKER_06I see it everywhere. Whose partial insight is so seductive that it's more plausible than the whole truth. Because you want to make your idea, for whatever reason, that thing that covers everything, and of course, you end up totally with an ideology which is really not the whole truth. It's really a lazy man's intellectual life. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
SPEAKER_04It's lazy man's excuse. Don't blame me, this is how I'm made. Don't blame me, it's not my fault.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. It's it's it's that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06So I I think people can change. The whole point of us being clergy is to be able to say we can change.
SPEAKER_15That's what I wanted to talk about tonight, because I think all of us would hold that human beings are not fixed. Human beings are not settled creatures. That we can change, we can be transformed, we can be renewed, we can be made better and better and better over time. Rudy, man, I think you've gotten better over the years. I'm just saying that. You've you've had a few good examples, right? I said, you've had a few good examples, haven't you?
SPEAKER_10Not many, but actually uh maybe digging into what you were saying, I think I think a lot of it has to do with the type of people that you surround yourself. Yeah, I can define the model. Okay, we can do more than I can start doing that, right? Then I start reshaping my character, I start reshaping my body, you know, that's a different level of commitment, right? So I think it's layered too, right? There's there's
Free Will, Motivation, Second Chances
SPEAKER_10kind of different segments of this thing.
SPEAKER_15Yeah, yeah, that's right. I mean and part of that, part of the question is what you know, free will. Do we have free will actually? Do we not have free will? Can we shape ourselves by this? And are there limits on our free will? So Stuart, let's start with you.
SPEAKER_04Well, the the issue with free will is that you can say that the person who exercises free will to change their to change themselves is also a product of outside forces forcing him to change.
SPEAKER_15So it's a circular it it's so free will doesn't solve it for you.
SPEAKER_04Well, no, it does for me, but somebody else could always say, you're not exercising free will, you're just responding to your environment, you know, if your environment makes you change, this kind of thing. But I think every single well, certainly every one of our religions, I would almost say, I don't know them all, but I would say almost every religion is based on the idea that people are capable of change, one way or the other. I think that every one of our religions, certainly, has the idea that being exposed to religion and internalizing it helps us to make the choice to change, and we change, and we can change. Because without that assumption, what are we doing here?
SPEAKER_15So so I mean, is is change a choice though? I b I believe it is. Okay. But but in addition to a choice, what else do you have to have to make a change?
SPEAKER_04Motivation. Because choosing isn't your motivation. Okay. Why you choose is the motivation. So I can choose because a alcohol isn't getting me where I want to go, or heroin is ruining my life, or gambling, or whatever. People can make the change make the choice to change, but they have to have the motivation. You know, have you people talk about you gotta hit bottom? Right. Okay, well, that kind of thing. Now, I I I think that there are parts of us that may not change. A person who is happy-go lucky is gonna remain happy-go-lucky. A person who, you know, uh I don't know, chooses sadness or chooses to be cynical or or negative may may not be able to change. But there p there are actions in our hands that are certainly changeable. That's all. I I and I I think that I think that every one of our religions believes as a matter of fact, I would say religion is the single greatest power that enables people to change.
SPEAKER_06I I I would I I don't remember where I read this. But change occurs when the uh the burden of rememb uh uh remaining where you are exceeds the effort that it would cause to change. Right.
SPEAKER_04When when the when the cost of change no, when the cost of not changing is greater than the cost of change, you'll change. Something like that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. One here, great quote. There's a television show called Ted Lasso, which is one of the most brilliant television shows I've ever seen.
SPEAKER_15I've heard about Ted Lasso, but I've never seen the show.
SPEAKER_04David Mario, if y'all ever get a chance to watch this show, go watch it. This is a quote from Ted Lasso. I hope that either all of us or none of us are judged by the actions of our weakest moments, but rather by the strength we show when and if we're ever given a second chance.
SPEAKER_06I'm gonna have to start watching that again. I watched season one, and season two I just couldn't get into it.
SPEAKER_04Really?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. But I'll I'll start it again. I'll start season two.
SPEAKER_04But that quote about change, that we shouldn't that that we should not be measured or or judged by our worst moments. You know, because we are more than our worst moments.
SPEAKER_15Well, that's exactly true. That's exactly true. And I I certainly don't be judged by the by my biggest mistakes, right? But in fact, sort of the the compilation of of all that we have.
SPEAKER_06I don't I only uh in my whole life I've only made one mistake.
SPEAKER_15Only one. Yep. And that's uh being on the radio with us. No, no, no.
SPEAKER_06It's it's the time that I thought I was wrong and I really wasn't.
SPEAKER_15Well, I want to I want to talk about Father Mary, I know you have been through a profound change in your own life. And and Stuart talked about earlier hitting rock bottom. And I don't know, in addition to having uh make making a choice and motivation, I want to talk about the community around you that you have to have, the people around you that you have to have in order to um to to to make a change. Okay. You know, to become a better this or that. That's the whole idea to me of the Day of Atonement. Absolutely. Right. It's not necessarily just me by myself uh pledging to do better, right? Right. Um these guys.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, we got thirty sec less than thirty seconds. But you have to surround yourself by people who are not like you were. Because you're just going to fall back into the same habits. And that's what Rudy was talking about earlier. Right, right. But at least once a year, you can do it any time. We set aside a time where you can look at our behavior to change it.
SPEAKER_15Yeah. Make those changes. Father Morgan. That's what we call Lent. That's true. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04What do you mean, Lent? I you I borrowed nothing. You lent me.
unknownForget it.
SPEAKER_15Neither a borrower nor a lender.
SPEAKER_06To our listeners, I wish I wish to apologize.
SPEAKER_15Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Okay, this is 1070K and TH, and we're gonna make a change here for a few minutes to go to our commercials.
First Break And Reset
SPEAKER_05You aren't the only one who enjoys listening to Salem Media Group.
SPEAKER_09Everybody at Salem Media Group, you've been incredible. You really are, and you're very popular. More popular than you would even know.
SPEAKER_05We'd say you're pretty good company.
SPEAKER_07And in Salem, what the job you do is great. I'm telling you, Salem has really done a fantastic job. I just want to thank you. You have courage, you have really courage, because I know it's not easy. Congratulations.
SPEAKER_05Hey, 1070 and FM 1033, the answer.
SPEAKER_17You're an angel to shame. Johnny Angel, how I love him, how I tingle when he passes. But every time he says hello, my heart begins to flush. Johnny Angel, how I want him. He's got something that I can't resist, but he doesn't even know that I shall dream of him and me, and how it's gonna be. But I just sit and wait. I'd rather concentrate on Johnny Angel, 'cause I love him, and I pray that someday Welcome back to a show of faith on AM107 the answer.
Judaism On Repentance And Repair
SPEAKER_15This is Father Mario's favorite song. It was, yes. Yeah. Still is.
SPEAKER_06To a degree. To a degree it is. Yes. Yeah. Well, do you want me to comment on that?
SPEAKER_15No, no, no. No comment necessary, thank you. Hey, we were talking tonight the about the question do people, can people really change? What does Judaism say about change?
SPEAKER_04It clearly we can change, and it comes from recognizing our relationship to our Creator who could who gave us explicit commandments on how to behave. And it's I like I said, I think it's central to all religions and explicitly our our religions here. But at as I said this as we were going off the air, we have a holy day season that emphasizes change. Okay. Uh the high holy day season, middle late September, sometimes as late as late in the year as early October, uh, which emphasizes the idea of change. Recognize you've done something bad. Uh uh feel sorry for the fact that you've done something wrong, make amends as best you can within certain limitations, and but and here's the important part when given the opportunity to do it again, you don't. You choose not to. That's when change is really taking place.
SPEAKER_15Is that repentance? Yes.
SPEAKER_04That's that's actually this the process of repentance.
SPEAKER_15Okay. Repentance isn't just a decision that you make then.
SPEAKER_04It is also what comes from that decision. I can decide to repent and not feel sorry for what I did, don't recognize I did anything wrong, don't try to don't care about the person against whom I've hurt. That's not repentance. But that may be a decision. I'll I'll I'll repent, but there's no real repentance there.
SPEAKER_15So the it's it's it's a you talked about the pro a process that you enter into. It is a process. It's interesting, Father Mario, that in the New Testament, when when the gospel writers talk about repentance, it's the idea, it's not just that repentance is uh something you do once in your
Sincere Change With Real Relapses
SPEAKER_15life at the very beginning of your conversion. It's an ongoing change that you make.
SPEAKER_06But it's interesting because uh what Stuart said I would I would almost like 80% agree with.
SPEAKER_04What don't you agree with?
SPEAKER_06Uh what I don't agree with is the uh the inability to call something authentic repentance if you fall again into it.
SPEAKER_04No, no, no. That's not what I said.
SPEAKER_06You said you you're not not gonna do it again.
SPEAKER_15And and I was given the chance to do it, you don't do it again.
SPEAKER_04But if you do it again, you didn't really think it was wrong. You now have somebody else to apologize to and make amends to.
SPEAKER_06See, that's where I would disagree.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_06Mainly because we in the in the Christian or the Catholic Christian tradition believe in in a word called concupiscence. And concupiscence is the the uh the the leaning, the leaning of a human being towards doing what is destructive. I have met a lot of uh a lot of people, for example, uh let's let's go with the most obvious example, an addict.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_06Okay, an addict cannot just apologize one time and says, I'm never gonna do it again. They're probably gonna fall again. And and that doesn't mean that they weren't sincere. They're addicted.
SPEAKER_04No, no, no, but it's still a process, it's still a process they're in the middle of.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but it it doesn't mean that they are that that they wasn't sincere at the f very first time. That's why I think Jesus says says, uh, if my b if your brother forgives you, I mean if your fret sins against you, do I have to forgive him 70 times? It's 70 times, seven times. So I think it's I think it's a process of internal change that does not occur just with one act.
SPEAKER_04And I would agree with that because it's a process. Okay, I agree. Okay, but at the end of the process, okay, you know this there there's a thing about making it a habit if you do it for something like three weeks. I forgot what, but it's something like that. Yeah. So if you are in the process, involve the process, internalize the process, eventually you should get to a point. I agree. I agree. I would hope you would get to a point. Rudy, what do you think?
SPEAKER_10I think that although I agree with what you're saying, I think there is a critical moment in every person's life where they realize that they need to be on a process. Okay? Whether it's hitting rough bottom, whether um you know, you never wear your feet belt, and then until you get into an accident like I do agree with you. I need to go left. Sometimes I might go right, but I know that left is good. So being convinced of that, I think it does boil down to to kind of a moment where you just like this is it. And then you know, you might fall and stumble across the way, but I think that's kind of
Setting Up A Conversion Story
SPEAKER_10yeah.
SPEAKER_15I I mean we we gotta go to break here in just a second, but when we come back from that, Father Mari, I'd love for you to sort of tell in detail your own story to some degree about you coming to a point of change. That was a long time ago. Yeah, but it's it's a change that has actually meant something. It's a change that stuck with you. You haven't gone back.
SPEAKER_06No.
SPEAKER_04Right. And from which you've influenced a lot of other people.
SPEAKER_06Okay, well. Can we go to break early?
SPEAKER_15I don't know. We can ask Crystal.
SPEAKER_06Crystal?
unknownGo ahead.
SPEAKER_15She gives a thumbs up.
SPEAKER_06A thumbs up. Okay, this is KNTH, and we're going to change a little bit again, but we'll be right back.
SPEAKER_05AM 1070, the answer.
SPEAKER_11Hey y'all, this is Post Malone. Back in 86, Stevie Ray Vaughn inspired Texans to take pride in ending roadside litter. That spirit lives on. Let's keep it going and do our part to keep Texas looking its best. I'm proud to take part in keeping Texas roads free from trash. Because don't mess with Texas stands for one thing: keeping our state litter free. Let's keep it up.
SPEAKER_07Brought to you by the Texas Department of Transportation.
SPEAKER_02Hey, it's Mike Gallagher, hoping you'll join me on the unforgettable Gulf of America cruise happening in November of 2026. Imagine this turquoise waters, white sand beaches, incredible food, insightful conversations about the future of America. Scott Jennings and I will be your hosts. We'll dive into the issues shaping America as we cruise through some of the most stunning destinations while honoring the 250th anniversary of our nation. Book your cabin today. Text the word cruise to 94878. Text Cruise to 94878 or visit MikeOnline.com.
SPEAKER_00Our brave military men and women make tremendous sacrifices for our freedom. Patriotic Hearts is dedicated to supporting these heroes. By donating your unwanted card to Patriotic Hearts, you'll be supporting job transition and job fare programs, veteran entrepreneurship, counseling, and retreats for combat veterans and their spouses. Call 800-851-6067. You'll receive a tax deduction and we'll arrange a free pickup at your convenience. Call 800-851-6067 to donate your unwanted car.
SPEAKER_18Hey, it's Andy Hoosier with the Voice of Reason. You know, your favorite conservative talk radio show, where we cover the latest current events, recap your week, have some deeper discussions, and have some fun, sarcastic, witty, and original perspectives to the issues that matter to you. Yeah, you know the show. Be sure to join me every Saturday right here and enjoy the most energetic, fast-paced, intense couple hours of conservatism on the radio. It's the voice of reason and it's all right here. Join me Saturdays at 7 p.m. right here on AM 1070 and FM 1033 The Answer.
SPEAKER_03I'm wondering if you are still strong.
SPEAKER_04I'm gone. Welcome back to a show of Faith on AM107 the answer.
Father Mario On Fear And Faith
SPEAKER_15Hey, we're talking tonight about change. Can people really change? Do people change? Why do they change? What what forces, what what impacts do they have to have upon their lives in order to make them change? Father Marlowe, you you had a change in your life. Well bad.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it was uh I won't take too long because uh I don't I just don't want to take too long. Um I I when I was a teenager, I grew up in the 60s. And uh right when we were when I was growing up, I mean uh I was in high school 15, 16, 17, it was, you know, the beginning of the drug culture, but it wasn't too bad on drugs. It was mostly marijuana marijuana and stuff like that. And as soon as I graduated from high school, I got into the wrong crowd. And um I I went to junior college and I spent uh four years in junior college. How many, how many years are you supposed to spend in junior college?
SPEAKER_15Uh about six weeks.
SPEAKER_06Well, I spent four years because I was jacking around doing not much of anything chasing women. And uh uh and anyway, um one day I had uh the the stupid decision, although I'll say that later. The stupid decision a friend of mine said, Do you want to try LSD? And uh I did. I tried LSD, and I must have been a very, very insecure and very um brittle young man because it literally just exploded my head. And it was such a tremendous change. The trip, the the trip wasn't all that bad, but I think it's the first time that I landed outside living in my own story. Now that may sound weird, but you live in your own story, and then all of a sudden something happens that makes you look at reality instead of living in your own story. And I was horrified at reality, at death, at everything, and and and because I was no longer uh I was not no longer at the center of my own story. And it that made me go into a a year-long uh thing about the I was I was really tempted to commit suicide. Uh yeah, because and and what happened was that I was so scared of committing suicide. Because see, suicide, at least from my experience of it, it was just I don't want to suffer anymore. I want to end it all.
SPEAKER_15Right.
SPEAKER_06What you want to end is not pleasurable. You want to end suffering.
SPEAKER_15Yeah, yeah. And so it's not that you want to die.
SPEAKER_06No, you just wanted to end it.
SPEAKER_15You want to you want to end the suffering.
SPEAKER_06And so I was I was so afraid that in one moment of stupidity I would actually do it. You know, I would jump off a bridge or I would throw myself in front of a car or something like that, because I kept on having all kinds of uh promptings to do it. Do it, do it. It was like something was inside of me was saying, do it, do it. And uh that's when I started, I went to Catholic schools all my life and I started looking up at God because up until then I was Catholic, but I didn't want to be Catholic. I used to argue with my mother why she'd make me Catholic because I wanted to do whatever I wanted to do without feeling guilty. And she had given me a moral core, and I was angry at her for having given me a moral core.
SPEAKER_15Oh, that darn mother of you.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that darn mother. So anyway, I just I I was afraid I was gonna do it. And uh I, thanks be to God, I started asking God, don't let me go. I started saying, Are you up there? Because I hadn't believed in him. Are you up there? Let me come let don't let me go, don't let me go, because I was afraid I was gonna do it. It got to the point, and this was not uh a very quick, you know, oh I'm in nirvana, everything was good. It was a struggle every day to get through the day and through the night. But it it came to the point after about eight months to nine months that I didn't know how to live, except hanging on to God. I just didn't know how to live anymore. And by then I had uh I had moved to Houston and I was uh I was my aunt and uncle got me a job at uh I had been four years in junior college. My aunt and uncle got me a job in Houston at St. Thomas High School, but not the way you think. I was an assistant to the janitor at St. That's what four years of junior college. You want fries with that? Yeah, yeah. And so and I worked at St. Thomas High School. If anybody's listening to me from St. Thomas, I I'm glad I'm grateful to you all. But I worked at St. Thomas High School for two days. I was fired because I was after two days, because I was a really horrible janitor. And I and I went to the seminary where I had met a friend who was in his way out of the seminary. He was secretly dating, and he just wanted to complete the this the semester so he wouldn't lose his semester credits, and he was staying in the seminary for all the wrong reasons. So I went to visit him there because I didn't want to go back to my uncle's house. And he said, you know, I think they're looking for an assistant at the janitorial crew at the seminary. So he told me over there, and I was I think the seminary had lower standards for channel. And I was uh hired as the assistant janitor. And I worked at the adjustment manager for three months, and I started using the library, I started learning, I started talking to seminarians, and I started understanding the spiritual side of what was happening to me and how to cling to God and who what what it meant to be a Christian. And then at the end, and this is where it ends, um, I still remember it was like December and uh of 1970 uh and or 71, and my my mom and dad said, Well, what are you gonna do now? Because I was feeling a little better. And I said, You know, I want to spend the rest of my life proclaiming the only thing that stood when the rest of my life went to hell. And that's uh I wanted to proclaim the gospel. And uh I did and I'm Catholic, I'm not gonna be anything else, so I said, Okay. And I think they were hard up for processing.
SPEAKER_15We'll take you over in the Protestant side.
SPEAKER_04And what did your parents say when you told them that?
SPEAKER_06Well, everybody in my family thought I was running away. Run away? Yeah, in other words, they go get thee to the nunnery, you know, and g you go into the uh you go into the seminary to hide from the world, you know, and that's what they thought.
SPEAKER_04Really?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that's what they thought. And and even my brother, Fernando, my brother, he had a pool going on about how long I would last in the seminary. And uh so anyway, that's I went into the seminary, and even today I still am I'm still functioning out of the decision that I made to cling to God and to spend my the rest of my life doing that.
SPEAKER_04When was the decision?
SPEAKER_06The day of your for lack of a better term, day was where conversion or my conversion was it my conversion was an act of fear. An act of fear of losing my control and committing suicide. And it was I didn't want to, but I was afraid of losing my control.
SPEAKER_04But when but when was your choice? When your choice was, when do you proclaim when would you say your choice was to live?
SPEAKER_06The moment I wanted to kill myself. In other words, I never I I I had these compulsions to kill myself. Right. And I didn't want to. So there was it there was no one moment in which there was no one moment. It was just I don't want to do it. But I kept on something inside of me said you could just end this suffering all the uh immediately. And I had to ask, is there any hope that I'll be better at any time in the future? And the only the only news that gave me hope of being better in the future was Jesus and the resurrection, so that I could at least look at the end of my life and know that there was some chance of happiness.
SPEAKER_15So would you say you were converted at that point? Yes. Is that a conversion?
SPEAKER_06That's a conversion.
SPEAKER_15Okay.
SPEAKER_06Yes. But that point lasted almost a year. It was not a point. There was no specific point.
SPEAKER_04Okay. All right. Because when the when in all of that process, when did you say I'm going to give my life and do nine months afterwards? It was nine months. Okay, that was Yeah.
SPEAKER_06I always I always say something that people don't understand. I didn't become a priest because I wanted to be the what the cultural image of a priest is. I I I I I had never known a single priest that I admired. Not ever. And so for me, my conversion was that I had found in my relationship with God hope. And I wanted to spend that the rest of my life giving the hope, proclaiming the hope of the resurrection of Jesus for the rest of my life. And that's your conversion. That's my that was my conversion.
SPEAKER_15Yeah, yeah. And and the idea and uh in conversion in Judaism is is distinct, I know.
SPEAKER_04Because because the term the way it's used is people converting to Judaism. It's not because Judaism is being a citizen, so to speak, of a nation. God said to Abraham, I will make you a great nation.
Conversion As Ongoing Transformation
SPEAKER_04Not a great culture, not a great ethnicity, not a great family, but a great nation. Because it's being a part of a nation, you don't have a you don't have a revelation one day to become an American. You are an American. You may have a revelation someday to promote democracy or uh you know the constitution or whatever, but uh the the your state of being an American is never so when we use the term conversion, it usually means b c becoming a Jew, converting to Judaism, or a Jew converting to become another religion. So we we don't use it like a like you're using it as a uh a theological experience of the divine.
SPEAKER_15Yeah. A lot of Protestants will take the term conversion as a point of decision. Have you made this decision? And I think what I'm hearing is the idea, and I think it's true in the Christian faith as well, the Protestant Christian faith, is that the idea is that conversion itself is not something that happens in in the moment in the twinkling of an eye. It is something that is an ongoing transformation of the person that it really does last throughout your whole life. You know, that it it lasts through your whole life that you have converted, or the process is all the process of conversion is something uh you're always in the process of being and becoming. You know, you're you've never arrived, right? You've never arrived at the person that you're going to be. You're in the process of becoming that person.
SPEAKER_06I would ask you, Stuart, are you a deeper Jew today? Is your Judaism deeper than it was thirty years ago?
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. It's deeper years before I a couple years ago before I retired, it's deeper than that's what conversion is for us.
SPEAKER_06Yes.
SPEAKER_04Okay. That that's just not the vocabulary word that we use.
SPEAKER_15Yeah, I mean I mean we all use words a little differently and we load them with with different meaning. But but the idea for us, and and I know we gotta go to break here in in just a second, but is the idea that there is an ongoing work that God is that that even before there's this idea in Protestantism called prevenient grace. Prevenient grace. And that means that before we even are born, as it were, God's grace is calling us. God's grace is ahead of us.
SPEAKER_04David, no joke. Is that like the word convenient?
SPEAKER_15Probably prevenient means it it has it comes early, it comes before, in a sense. And convenient is with uh convenient. It means it means it arrives.
SPEAKER_06It's coming to the word venir means to come. To come. Okay, pre means before. Right. So it's be it came to you before.
SPEAKER_15Right. And convenient comes to you.
SPEAKER_06It's with right.
SPEAKER_15So so before you're even born, it goes back to that Psalm 139. While you while I was in the womb, you knew me, right? And you were calling me in a sense. Jeremiah talks about God calling him when he was in his mother's womb. We're not aware of that. We don't we don't take note of that.
SPEAKER_04But God knows the future and knows who will be. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Well, right now we have a prevenient call to a commercial.
SPEAKER_15Prevenient. Yeah, it's convenient.
SPEAKER_06It's convenient.
Second Break And Return
SPEAKER_06Okay. This is 1070 KNTH, we are preveniently and conveniently going to a commercial.
SPEAKER_05AM 1070 and FM 1033, the answer.
SPEAKER_01If you're between the ages of 55 and 63, disabled and unable to work, you may be eligible for disability benefits from Social Security. The average is about $1,300 a month. It's a benefit you are entitled to from working. Use it to pay your normal living expenses. This free call only takes 10 minutes, and it could provide you the necessary financial relief you need. Plus, our services cost you nothing until you receive your benefit check. Save yourself time and aggravation. We know how to get the job done for you as quickly as possible. So if you are physically or mentally disabled and can't return to work, and you're between the ages of 55 and 63, learn if you qualify for your $1,300 a month check. Make this free call right now to the Social Security Disability Helpline.
SPEAKER_12800-368-0123. 800-368-0123. 800-368-0123. That's $800-368-0123.
SPEAKER_13Investors trying to make sense of the markets, looking to diversify out of this craziness. Listen to the Gold Show with Kenny Michaels on AM 1070 The Answer. Sundays at 1 p.m. Tune in for Kenny's Insights and the Gold Show. This Sunday at 1 on AM 1070 at FM 1033 The Answer.
SPEAKER_14Hi, my name is Annie Clark, owner of Collector's Firearms. I would like to invite you to see our collection of over 10,000 brand new, used, and collectible guns. Come see us on the corner of Westhammer and Boss or visit us at CollectorsFirearms.com.
SPEAKER_08For those who have served our nation, reminds us of why we salute our flag, why we put our hands on our hearts for the Pledge of Allegiance, and why we proudly stand for the national anthem. All of us, together, as one team, one people, and one American family, can do anything. We all share the same home, the same heart, the same destiny, and the same great American flag.
SPEAKER_05President Trump on AM 1070, the answer.
SPEAKER_17Oh, yes, final minute, Mr. Bowsman.
Rudy On Gradual Growth
SPEAKER_04Welcome back to a show of faith on AM 1070 answer.
SPEAKER_15Yeah, we need to uh Rudy, we want to hear from you, man. Uh we Father Mario a moment ago. Has he had a conversion? Have you? I was gonna do that, Stuart. Stuart's trying to coach me here how to do this show.
SPEAKER_04Well, I have to because you know you're so I need so much help, I know.
SPEAKER_15Um, Rudy, uh Father Mario has detailed here at least part of his conversion story. Have you had kind of a change like that yourself?
SPEAKER_10I think absolutely a little bit more gradually. Um a little piece of heaven, right? Hey, that's not a good hey that's not a good thing. Hey, these are good people. Hey, this is good, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_10I think for me I just I think I guess I think going back to that from Thomas Murray say this all the time, but doing something clean to God when my life has been with with the most joy, with the most passion. And it doesn't mean that I'm not cleaning or not going through something, but I always need to kind of find a way to kind of get through it. So I think I can relate a lot, and I think I think we all have thought religions, right? I think a lot of these things are um I think all the great minds and all the people that are contained through their religion, I think I think it's normal for us to really struggle with it. You know, because there's there's difficult things in the Bible, there's difficult things uh to contend with, and you really have to kind of think about it, right? For the faith of heart, like to believe the thing, to believe in in God and to live according to those principles, man, it really takes a day. Unapologetically. So it takes character, a constant conversion, if you want, to kind of to really be cemented in that faith. And every day I'm learning, every day you know I find out that I'm not perfect and and that I screw up all the time. And thanks be to God, there is a God that is merciful because oh my goodness, do I screw up a lot?
SPEAKER_15Well, we well we all do, right? I mean, we we all we all fall into these patterns and such.
Telos, Renewal, And Daily Practice
SPEAKER_15But I mean, my sense is and and I know that there's some there's some teenage stuff going on right back in the 18 when you, as you said, your your full frontal lobe was not uh fully developed or uh completely developed. But at the same time, we are moving as people of faith toward a telos, toward a goal. What is that goal? What is that goal that we are becoming? What is that who is that man that we are becoming? Who is that woman that we are becoming, right? What what kind of behavior do we have? Who who what is our identity? Who are we? Both who are we, what do we want, and how do we act? All of those things are in the process of changing, not only because we're getting older, but because we're getting and becoming more like that tell us, that goal. That goal that is set before us. In Judaism, there's a goal that you're you're to be, and in Christianity there's a goal. We would call it Christ-likeness, to be conformed to the image of Christ. Yeah, exactly. And and there's a constant sense in which our minds are being renewed. We are to seek the renewal of our mind. We're seek the renewal of our hearts. Our minds need to be made new every day. Our hearts need to be made new every day. And that's a part of the disciplines that we take on when we take on the Christian faith.
SPEAKER_04Right, in Judaism, there's a a few times throughout the Bible the term is circumcising your heart. So taking on a new uh a new heart. You know, you're you're getting rid of the bad and going on with the good. You're circumcising your heart.
SPEAKER_15Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's a biblical image.
SPEAKER_15Yeah, yeah. So that that's that's the end goal. So Father Father Mario, what is the end goal for the Catholic?
SPEAKER_06Well, I think uh the end goal for the Catholic, uh remember, uh I'm not only speaking for the Catholic, I would speak for you too. Uh because I think you know we shared a vast amount of belief in terms of Christianity.
SPEAKER_15Yeah.
SPEAKER_06I always really like to remind people that the word Catholic is an adjective. It's it's not a proper name. Um I am a Christian first. I am the kind of Christian that is called Catholic.
SPEAKER_15Uh which means universal. Right? In in uh in accordance with the whole.
SPEAKER_06In accordance with the whole, but it's got a very deep meaning. Yeah. So what was your question?
SPEAKER_15The question was w what's the goal? What's the tellos of being Catholic?
SPEAKER_06To me, uh it it is the hope of overcoming death and to be able to m to to live in eternity with the people with the God and the people that I love. That I think St. Paul said it. If Christ has not been raised from the dead, we're really up the creek. He didn't say that way, but he just bet he'd say we're to be the most pitied of all people. Because because if he's not been raised from the dead, then we're just here.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_06And we've d I've dedicated my entire life to a lie. Right. If that's the case. So anyway, so that's what the ultimate.
SPEAKER_15But the whole idea of growth, and we talk about spiritual growth. We talk about uh uh of at least we do in the Christian faith. I don't know if you use that term necessarily in in in Judaism or not, spiritual growth. But but the whole idea of growth is about change. You know, I I went to the garden the other day. We've been planting potatoes, and we planted them um a few, maybe a month ago, something like that. White potatoes. We have sweet potatoes this summer. But at any rate, what I I was surprised at how large those plants had gotten. Just doing the thing, the natural thing, and how much they had changed over that. And then that spiritual growth itself is a daily thing. Our changes in the Christian faith are understood as daily changes.
SPEAKER_04I mean minor, small, or meaning well, it's every day you have to make the same change, or I'm not sure what you mean by that.
SPEAKER_15If I if I had gone out to the garden every day at nine o'clock in the morning, I may not have noticed the radicality of it, but when you go a whole week or two weeks without going to the garden and seeing the difference, right? You realize, wow, that the the these these things have really taken off, right? So I think that that's a part of the challenge that we have is that we we want to grow fast. We want everything to be fast, we want to we want to solve our problems quickly, we want to be different people tomorrow. I want to lose 40 pounds, you know, in a week, that kind of stuff. Those things don't really happen, right? Um but what happens is slow, steady, purposeful growth. And it is growing toward a telos, toward an end. Uh not not not that we're done, but that that we've reached, we're moving toward a goal.
SPEAKER_04Because it's a process.
SPEAKER_15Because it's a process.
SPEAKER_04That may have a goal, but it's a process to get the biggest thing.
SPEAKER_15It does have a goal, does it?
SPEAKER_04But yes, but it ha but it's a process to get to the goal.
SPEAKER_15It's a process to get to the goal, basically.
SPEAKER_04But it's an ongoing
Tikkun Olam And Final Blessing
SPEAKER_04process. In Judaism, I would not say that the goal is to be in heaven with our the with our uh loved ones. The goal is to make this world a better place by our having been here through the obedience of God's laws and the expression of God through our behavior, morality, and ethics, etc. etc.
SPEAKER_15Yeah. So where does heaven fit in? Does heaven fit in?
SPEAKER_04Heaven is like is like two drops of gasoline talking to each other about about trying to find out what they're what they're I can't even think of in a good example. That's a bad example. But it's the natural process of the world is an afterlife. Okay, there is an afterlife, but it's it's it's the mechanics of the universe as God set it up. Okay.
SPEAKER_15So it's gonna be there regardless.
SPEAKER_04It's gonna be there. So the importance in Judaism, the the afterlife takes care of itself. Okay, you do what you're supposed to do, you you're gonna get your reward or your punishment, okay? But it's not eternal. The point is that it's the important thing is what we do in the here and now because we have the here and the now. We're in the here and the now. And so in Judaism, it's it's living the word of God, being a role model to the world, and changing the world. That's the the phrase, the ongoing phrase is tikkun olamba malhut shaddai, repairing or fixing the world through using the rule of God. That so that that's the goal.
SPEAKER_06Well, ultimately we have less than 30 seconds left.
SPEAKER_15Our goal.
SPEAKER_06Our goal is to get this show finished before the testation takes us off.
SPEAKER_15Before Crystal says, What are you guys doing?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So next week I am the show director. All right. So um we want to thank you for listening to us this week. Uh please understand that you will you will be in our prayer. So you keep you keep us in yours. Have a great week. Take care.
SPEAKER_05Find us at am 1070 the answer.com. Download our apps. Stream us 247, K N T H and K277 D E F M, Houston.