A Show of Faith
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A Show of Faith
Episode 182: Money As A Spiritual Mirror
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Money can buy comfort, options, and time, but it can also expose the raw truth about what we worship. We sit down to talk about why money triggers so much guilt, anger, and confusion in religious life and in everyday family decisions.
We start by cleaning up a famous line that gets misquoted constantly: the problem is not money itself, but the lust for money, the disordered use of something that can be good. Father Mario connects it to a surprising place: how people confuse normal human desire with lust, and how “respect” can be a practical discipline of re-looking, seeing more clearly, and refusing to turn people or possessions into objects. From there, we apply the same moral framework to personal finance, charity, and the question of what responsible generosity actually looks like.
Rudy brings in the bigger picture: money, debt, and currency are built on trust and community obligation, from ancient ledgers to modern fiat currency after the gold standard. Then we tackle the myth that all clergy must be impoverished, the real difference between vows of poverty and ordinary clerical life, and why televangelist wealth and fundraising tactics spark such strong backlash. David frames it with Jesus’ warnings about wealth as a spiritual mirror: your financial choices reveal what you love, what you hope in, and what you think will save you.
If you care about the theology of money, Christian stewardship, religious giving, tithing debates, and the ethics of wealth, this conversation will challenge you without shaming you. Subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review that tells us: what do you think money is for?
Cold Open And Cast Intro
SPEAKER_15There's something happening here, but what it is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there. Tellin' me I got to beware. I think it's time we stop. Children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. Nobody's right if everybody's wrong.
SPEAKER_05Everybody's wrong. Welcome to KNT. Oh, you've been wrong ever since you were born. Hello.
SPEAKER_07You're blaming me when I was a baby? Yes, I am. Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_05Well, are you gonna do the introduction?
SPEAKER_07Well, you started it. Oh, I know. Welcome to a show of faith where Professor Priest Millennial Rambi discuss the theology, philosophy, morality, and anything else of interest to us. If you have any response to our topics or any comments regarding what we say, we would love to hear from you. Email us at ashow of faith1070 at gmail.com. Ashow of Faith1070 at gmail.com. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard. Our professor is David Capes, Protestant Minister, Director of Academic Programming for the Linear Theological Library. I hope he's not having problems getting on again tonight. Uh yes. Our priest is Father Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St. Cyril of Alexandria, the 10,000 block of Westheimer. Thank you. Live in studio. He is alive. He is he's come back to life. Rudy Kong is our millennial. He's a systems engineer, master's degree in theology from the University of St. Thomas, and in studio with us.
SPEAKER_02Let me tell you, you guys do not look any better. This is this is I don't know if I should even come back. It was just better to have this idea of y'all in my head. You know.
SPEAKER_07Well, we're we're thinner and we're am I not prettier?
SPEAKER_05I thought I was prettier. You told me I was prettier.
SPEAKER_07Uh I am Stuart Federo, uh retired rabbi of Congregation Char Shalom, the Clear Lake area of Houston, Texas. Crystal is our board operator, and she is the one who makes us sound fantastic. And guess what? I am the uh Show director. Show director, thank you, for tonight. And
Money And The Problem With Lust
SPEAKER_07my topic I have picked is money. M-O-N-E-Y.
SPEAKER_02Money, money, money, money. Money, money.
SPEAKER_07Is David here? He's still not on. Okay. Okay. Uh you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You cannot first say that uh what's it usually? Either the lust for money is the root of all evil or money is the root of all evil, and then turn around and say capitalism is the best form of social government and economic theory, and it's better than socialism, it's better than communism when the basis of capitalism is It's called regulated capitalism.
SPEAKER_05The lust for money. It's called regulated capitalism. Okay, regulated capitalism. It's not lust for money. It's called self-interest to some degree. You have to regulate that.
SPEAKER_07But you do, but you can't say that lust for money is bad when it is the lust for money that stimulates people to go into business and to have a job and to have a career and get food for their family and whatever they do with the money they earn.
SPEAKER_05Okay,
Desire Versus Misuse And Respect
SPEAKER_05okay. See, here's the problem. The problem with what you're saying is the word lust. Yes, the word lust. Exactly. The word lust implies a misuse of something. Like it sexual lust. Sex is in not in any way wrong. It's when you abuse sexuality that it becomes lust.
SPEAKER_07Okay. So it's when you abuse the desire for money that it becomes the lust for money. That's right. Interesting. Okay.
SPEAKER_05Because see, that's because I'm Catholic.
SPEAKER_07Right.
SPEAKER_05Yes. Reasonable. Reasonable, see? I'm reasonable.
SPEAKER_02He's reasonable, Rabbi. No.
SPEAKER_05No, because see, i i it it it struck me because uh you know when I when I hear confessions in uh in I'm a Catholic priest. When I hear confessions, I hear people referring to confessing sins about sexuality that are not, that are just normal human experiences of sexuality.
SPEAKER_07Right.
SPEAKER_05And so I'm constantly having to correct them and I've had to make uh distinctions between normal human sexuality, the feelings, and also what it when Jesus said anyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery. And so what's the difference between a normal human experience of sexuality and handsome guy or you know, or seeing a a a naked person and you're sexually attracted, that is still normal.
SPEAKER_07Okay.
SPEAKER_05When you what happens is when you allow the experience of the sexual to become twisted for your own pleasure, forgetting in in what way? For example, let me let me let me give you an example. Um I I like to use this example. If I go down and this happens to me, I I sometimes I'll go down to Galveston just to walk next to the beach. Okay, I see a beautiful lady wearing a very tiny bikini. Okay, I'm still a man, I'm still attracted. I see her, I am sexually attracted to her. Now, at that moment that I experience the sexual attraction, am I committing a sin? The answer is no.
SPEAKER_07But then what I have- I have never, never heard any Christian minister of any denomination say that.
SPEAKER_05Okay, now watch, here's where I go. You guys can criticize, I feel like the moment I experience that sexual attraction that to that person, I have a decision to make. And so what I the decision is how am I going to handle the sexual attraction? Then what I have always enjoyed is the word respect. Here's the word now, if you've thought every f if you think about etymologically, the word respect, re means do it again. Spec is look. So what you're being now told to do is re-look. So what I've gotten in the habit of doing is I don't look away. I keep experiencing my sexual attraction, but then I say, wait a minute. She's a daughter of God. So allow me, I will continue to enjoy the way she looks and I'm attracted, but I refuse to abuse her in my mind, even in my mind, for my own pleasure. And that is when you reject the lust. Lust would be taking the experience, the abuse of the sexual attraction. That's the lust. And you have a decision to make. Sin is never in the emotion, sin is in the decisions of what you do with your emotions or your desires.
SPEAKER_07Praising God for putting such beauty in our world. That's basically. So you are you are uh what's the word sublimating.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_07And you are redirecting the energy into a praise of God. That's that you're basically doing a respect. Right, exactly. Basically doing that.
SPEAKER_05Respect for God and respect for the now take that and apply it to money.
SPEAKER_07Okay.
Money As A Moral Tool
SPEAKER_02Respect. So and and and well, go ahead. Well, I was gonna say so money to to a real degree has um moral obligations.
SPEAKER_07Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Just just like any any use of any equipment or any experience that we have in this world, and I think the way Father Maher explains it is spot on. It's what we do with that, right? There's a lot of people that don't know how to money manage money and are very rich and and experience many, many things, and can pursue many, many pleasures, but there's also a lot of people that do not have any money that are just as disoriented in their use of that money. Do you know what I mean? So it's it's rich or poor, sure. I think there's a conversation there to be had as well about the utility and how much to use it and and to use it for good.
SPEAKER_07And the requirement for charity, taking care of other people. Exactly. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02But there I think there's a deeper question there about do we r respect the tools that God has put in our path, right? Do we do we take advantage for good to use the things that He has put in our path for our family, for our community, for the people around us? And I think that's a bigger that's a big regardless of how much money, whether I have five dollars or five million dollars, right? I mean it's it's at the end of the day, I think it starts with with what's inside, right?
SPEAKER_05With well I got this, by the way, from Victor Frankel. Because Victor Frankel basically says, he says in his um in his uh Man Search for Meaning.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, man search for meaning.
SPEAKER_05He says the ultimate human freedom is the ability to decide the attitude you will have towards your experiences.
SPEAKER_08Right.
SPEAKER_05And so if you have a respectful attitude towards the experience of sexual attraction, you are actually doing something that is beautiful.
SPEAKER_02Because and you're and so when people Well, you could say aligned to h to to our natural law.
SPEAKER_05And the way God created us.
SPEAKER_02Right, exactly. Exactly right. And I think the same thing applies to uh to to the use of money. And I think
Debt History And Trust In Currency
SPEAKER_02I think what's important is um when we look at history, I think a lot of people, there's a there's a famous book here. I don't know if you guys ever read, it's by uh an anthropologist, David Graeber. No? It's called Debt, the first five thousand years. Did you guys ever read about this one? Debt. Debt. D-E-B-T, Deb. And so what he explains is that people many people make the assumption that before in the old world it was just this kind of barter system, right? Like you would make shoes and I made hats and you made coats, and we would all switch. Not the case. Not the case. So that there was always somewhere written in an acceptable means of exchange, let's call it in that in the olden times. Before coins, we would use the value of grains, for example. Oh, yes. And we would jot down. Salt. That's a good one, metals, right? And so when you go back in history, the those where debts were obligations and moral obligations, right? So if you perform a service for me and I perform a service to you, and I can't pay you, but I need that to serve, that would be jotted down. So that has a communal implication as well, right? That I have to now produce something to pay you back. So what I'm saying is with debt came this legal and very real moral obligation to either pay back to the person that you owed it or be paid forward, right, too. If somebody owed you money. So what I'm saying is for a long time in history, this concept of money, currency, has I think evolved in some capacity, but it's always been about community. And it's always been about exchanging value within us. And and in a way to kind of make sense of that. I mean, famously, Nixon, I mean, you guys were alive for this in the 70s. In the 70s, we did away with the gold standard. So he completely um disassociated the U.S. dollar with our gold reserve. So it just became something that the public trusted, right? The people trust in the U.S. economy. The people trust in its leadership. They trust that the dollar is worth whatever, this amount, and I can buy an apple with it and I can do that, right? So that's what I mean. It's when you talk about trust of something, it implies a moral there's like a moral understanding of this, right? That that the country is.
SPEAKER_07There's a morality that comes that accompanies the idea of money.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So there's a lot of I know there's a lot of things that we I don't know that do you want to go into anything else, Robert?
Should Clergy Be Poor
SPEAKER_07Well, yes. I there's I was hoping that David would be able to be in on this because uh it's a question for both David and Mario. And Rudy, if you can chip in, please. But why is there this I think it's a myth. There's a myth about priests, but there's an idea also about uh uh ministers that were supposed to be poor. Everybody who's a minister or who has a church or has a flock, and then if a person is a minister like those on TV and happen to have wealth, it's they're sinners. Well, and I think it's a myth.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it is it is a myth, but uh it's a myth that we're not gonna be able to explain in 30 seconds. Oh, because we're all oh we are in we are we are the 29 second 20 seconds before we need to go. So we will talk about that when we come back. This is 1070 KTH. You are listening to the show of faith, and we will be right back.
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Vows Of Poverty And Stewardship
SPEAKER_07I think David's on. Mario's Johnny Angel I am Johnny David.
SPEAKER_09Am I on now? Yay. Yay, thanks to Crystal. She is the one who saved me for the night.
SPEAKER_07Yes. Saved our show, so you can be on. David, the the question I had just asked before going to the break has to do with this myth, this idea that ministers, priests, rabbis, anybody who deals with a religion is supposed to be impoverished. Like every like every priest has a has a vow of poverty. Oh, and every but that of course it's not true, but I think it's a myth out there.
SPEAKER_05No, but we don't have a vow of poverty. Okay. What is it? See, okay, okay, you gotta you gotta get you gotta get this right. In Catholic tradition, and probably in in uh in Protestant different traditions, and David can talk about that. But in Catholic traditions, the word poverty is a has two meanings.
SPEAKER_07The word poverty?
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_07Okay.
SPEAKER_05Poverty can be something evil and poverty can be something good.
SPEAKER_07Like anything.
SPEAKER_05Okay. So for example, when Jesus says, Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of God. When what poverty means positively is using money for good but not attachment. So you can, for example, I use this example.
SPEAKER_04No.
SPEAKER_05And the answer is no. However, it can be. Because if I own a yacht and I use it exclusively for me, and I don't let anybody else touch it, I don't do anything like that.
SPEAKER_07It's a greed.
SPEAKER_05It's a greed. But what if I uh I have a yacht and when I'm not using it, I use it to take doctors to uh places, I let I I give people rides in it, I tip bring children, uh you know, all kinds of fundraising, something like that. So all of a sudden, the you know, you are managing what looks like a very expensive and and you know, possession and it is, but you're using it for the good of the people that are around you. That is poor in spirit. You don't hoard it. You use the money for good.
SPEAKER_07Okay. But there's still this idea that priests, ministers, rabbis, clergy, any clergy is supposed to be poor.
SPEAKER_05What's interesting is that for us as Catholics, I as a Catholic priest, I'm a diocesan priest. I am not a religious order. A religious order would be like like the Franciscans or the Jesuits or tons. But uh they take vows of poverty, meaning they don't own anything, but it's really they own things in common.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_05They own it in common.
SPEAKER_07They don't I'm not sure what that means. That means, for example, like one car, but everybody uses it? That's right. Okay.
SPEAKER_05That's right. Now, I as a diocesan priest do not have a vow. Okay.
SPEAKER_07So there is a vow of poverty.
SPEAKER_05Yes, but I don't have it. I don't make that vow.
SPEAKER_07Not all priests have it.
SPEAKER_05No. If your diocesan means I belong to this area I'm under directly under the bishop, then I have, for example, I own my own condominium. I own it. I own my own retirement money. That's my own.
SPEAKER_07Is there a and David, I'm asking you the same thing. Is there a concept in Catholicism or Protestantism, Christianity in general? Where does our money come from? We get it because of God. And we there's a concept in Judaism that you're that God gives it to you to give to other people. That you become the conduit, the hands of God, the feet of I mean, there's different we we would call it stewardship. Stewardship.
SPEAKER_09Say it again, David. Yeah, it's called generosity, right? I mean, generosity is you receive with one hand and you give with the next. But you don't give to the point that you the you yourself become impoverished. Right. And therefore become a burden, burden or a problem for somebody else. I mean, I mean, the very nature of being human means that whatever we possess, we only possess temporarily.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_09If if we if we think that we are, you know, as a friend of mine says, you've never seen a hearse pulling a U-Haul, right? Nobody's taking it with them at all. So we what God is the one who owns uh the earth is the wards of all that's in it, which is all the 24 ships. So everything that's here is his. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, exactly. And it could be it could be a a whole lot of different things. But the problem for us, I think, is and I'm not sure where that myth comes from, Stuart, because I don't know that I've heard it that much. Um what I do think the idea, the myth that all Catholic priests are poor, all Protestant ministers are poor all radical.
SPEAKER_07Are supposed to be poor, maintain their poverty. I okay, then David, why do people get so upset when the the people on TV seem to be so wealthy? It it seems to me like their reaction against that is, well, you're not supposed to be wealthy. You're not supposed to have good things. You're not supposed to be a big thing.
SPEAKER_02Is whenever the priest you would see maybe, oh, he got a new car, or maybe he got a different watch, or maybe he got a well, why does the priest have a different you know, or why so Rudy, I've I've seen it when uh uh one of these TV preachers, he's got an airplane, he's got his own jet.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so I think the the issue comes with with what David's saying, generosity, and and I'm reminded of this uh very famous Joel Joel Olstein. Um and I'm thinking after after Katrina, right, he was criticized a lot for not opening the church um initially to house some of the uh yes the the homeless, right, that that the city was experiencing. So and I think that's kind of where, and I'm not picking at him, I don't know all the details what was going on, but going back to the point, it's it's having something and then not using that something when there is a for the for when the community could need it. Right. Not depriving you of that something, right? So if I need a car, I need my car to work. But if you were to call me one day, he's like, hey, do you think I could borrow it for a day? Sure. If my brother calls me and says, Hey, can I borrow I need to go there? Sure. Now, that doesn't mean I'm gonna give him the car. I still need the car.
SPEAKER_05You're not gonna give him a Rolls Royce.
SPEAKER_02I'm not gonna give him a Rolls-Royce. No, sorry, Rabbi.
SPEAKER_05But but you have to understand that what you said about the the some pre preachers. They're they're you w if they have a lot of money, the question is how did they get it? Okay. Because the problem is their only income is the donation of the congregation, probably. Now if they have independent wealth, they need to declare it. But you people presume that your salary is coming from the congregation. And so if you have an airplane, if you have a huge mansion, they're gonna say, Did you use any of our money that we gave for the for that? And and and you should not have, because people are not donating that money with the intention of you using it personally for your luxuries.
SPEAKER_07Why are they giving it? What else is it supposed to be used for?
SPEAKER_05For the for the eat, he's gotta live. No, no, but that's way beyond eating. That's way beyond it's it's called for the common good. You you should be doing things for the common good.
SPEAKER_07So and I am about I don't know enough about these ministers if they do or don't. But they might.
SPEAKER_05But the yeah, but the their percentage of the money that they're taking is exorbitant if their lifestyle is exorbitant. It's the same thing as Nancy Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi didn't have any money, and now she's worked several more hundred million. Same thing with uh they're politicians, that's what they do. Well, that's but that's basically the same, the same, the same dynamism in the in the uh in the preachers. All right. And now we've gotta go.
SPEAKER_07Okay.
SPEAKER_02We gotta go.
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SPEAKER_07David,
Camel And Needle Wealth Warning
SPEAKER_07can you explain? Can you explain? Because I, again, I think there's a billion misunderstandings out there, and I think a misunderstanding I have heard repeatedly has to do, and you're gonna have to give me the correct quote uh uh rich man, camel, eye of needle. You know what I'm referring to?
SPEAKER_09Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jesus, Jesus is speaking, and he says, uh, you know, it's harder for rich man to go through the eye of a needle. Uh it's it it's sorry, it's it's harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into the kingdom of heaven, something like that.
SPEAKER_07Okay, but um what's that really mean?
SPEAKER_09Well, it it just means it's hard. I mean, it's very difficult. It's not impossible. But a lot of times, and this is part of the challenge, uh, a part of what Jesus talks about is that that wealth happens to be a spiritual mirror to how to our lives and how our person handles their wealth reveals what they really love, what they really trust, what they really hope in. And the rich man, uh, the example, uh, with there's there's a there's a rich young ruler described, and a guy named Zacchaeus, who is also rich, the rich young ruler went away sad because Jesus told him to sell all of his goods and give the money to the poor, and then follow Jesus, and he wouldn't do it.
SPEAKER_07But wouldn't wouldn't that make him just as poor as the people he needs to help?
SPEAKER_09Well, it depends upon you know how. You said that earlier. Yeah, it it does. I mean, that is not the ideal, is to give everything away so that you yourself become impoverished. But but what he meant was when come when he comes to follow Jesus, his needs would be cared for. That is a spiritual mirror. You stand up in front of that and that reveals what's on the inside. You your financial choices ultimately are spiritual choices. Yeah. They're not just sort of anything, any kind of random things out there. What we do to make our money, to preserve our money, to spend our money, to give our money, etc. Those are spiritual realities, spiritual choices that we make.
SPEAKER_07There's a Jewish Oh, go ahead.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, and so and so I think the the story of the rich rich man and and rich young ruler, the rich man and Lazarus, all those are given by Jesus to say, here is an example of holding wealth in such a high place and worshiping wealth, giving it your ultimate worth that you end up losing your soul in the process. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05It's interesting. I remembered a little bit of uh Mahatma Gandhi quote. He says, My rich friends never cease reminding me how much it costs them to keep me in poverty.
SPEAKER_07That's very funny, actually. David, there's a there's a uh going along with what you were just now saying, there's a saying uh in in in uh I think it's Talmudic, but it's a rabbinic writing, but it says that you can tell a person's character by kiso, koso, and ka'aso. And the three words mean pocketbook, uh, uh their cup, which means how they handle liquor, uh, and their anger. But the number one, the first one is how they handle their own money. You can tell their character, it's exactly what you were saying.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, it's a spiritual mirror. I mean, you know, God, uh, and I think this is what we see, you know, that where your Jesus makes a statement very plain, where your treasure is, there is your heart. There is your heart. And if you have if you have made material things your ultimate treasure, ultimate treasure. That's where your heart is. It it's in that particular spot.
SPEAKER_05That's why I love the word worship, you know, David. Ever since I I I did the etymology of the word worship, it's it's actually the just the two parts. The ship is the art or practice of anything. So for example, penmanship, authorship, sportsmanship. And the WOR is just a shortened version of the word worth. Worth how much you're worth? Yeah. Okay. So worth. But things that are worthwhile. Right.
SPEAKER_09So worth I actually uh Father Mario, I actually quoted you today at Sunday. Oh my god, the world's coming out. I did, I did, I I I quoted you, but I didn't give you credit.
SPEAKER_05Ah, that's okay. I've I've stolen my my half of the stuff from other people anyway.
SPEAKER_07I've stolen a lot more than half. So what was the quote, David? About worship. Oh, oh, oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_09That the word worship, you're right. Our word worship is a shortened version of the word worship from the Middle Ages.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And and it's really what you're doing when you go to Sunday worship is you're saying, I'm here to reaffirm to myself and to God that he is the highest worth of my life.
SPEAKER_07Right. Ultimate concern.
SPEAKER_05He's my ultimate concern. That's right. That's that's it.
SPEAKER_09Right. But there's there's a lot of people, seriously, there's a lot of people for whom their wealth is their ultimate concern.
SPEAKER_07Right, right. Right. Money.
SPEAKER_09Their money and preserving their money. Yep. And, you know, uh making more money and you know, keeping more of their money, you know, uh, you know, that is their ultimate worth. And and that's what they they value the most. That's they put more time, they put more energy, they put more conversation, that's what they talk about, that's what they read about every day, or you know, whatever they read, I guess. But the problem is uh of all of that, and this is Jesus again, your money can be stolen, it can be lost, I mean, it can be devalued to nothing in times of inflation. Um if you have if you have things like precious metals uh or something, uh not precious metals necessarily, but if you have things that are valuable, those things can tarnish and rust and could be corrupted. So the only things that last are things that are eternal, and the only eternal one is God Himself. Right.
SPEAKER_07All right.
How Churches Raise And Track Money
SPEAKER_07I want to move to something else. Mario, you brought this up, but I want to expand on it.
SPEAKER_05All right.
SPEAKER_07Because you were talking about how the uh people on TV get their money.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_07But how does any church, synagogue, mosque, temple, how does any of them get their money? It's by donations. It's by a misconception, I think, called tithing.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but see, uh the the well, for in a Catholic situation, okay uh we are receiv we receive a salary and it is controlled by the diocese. And ultimately that's controlled by the Vatican.
SPEAKER_07Okay, but how but they have to get their money somehow. Exactly. It's donations.
SPEAKER_05But it's the abuse of the donations that's wrong.
SPEAKER_07Oh no, no, I am yes, I know that. But I I'm m moving to something else and that has to do with the the the system of obtaining money. Yeah. Okay. For example, in Judaism, we're not supposed to handle money on the Sabbath. So the only way to do that is I guess in the Christian f format it would be called pledges or something like that. Yeah. So we call it dues, like a membership.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_07But they have to send that in. They can't there's no passing the plate at a j at a synagogue. Yeah. Okay, because you don't handle money on s on the Sabbath. So what's the system? Like do people sign up or it's just random whatever they get that in the plate or Yeah, most of the time, well, we have in the Catholic Church, we have uh all kinds of different we have electronic giving that you can do with that computer.
SPEAKER_08Right.
SPEAKER_05Uh that we don't have that electronic world, huh, Rudy? We we don't we don't have the uh thing of not handling, you know, not uh handling money on the Sabbath.
SPEAKER_07Well of course.
SPEAKER_05So, you know, uh sometimes you know we pass the plate twice, like second collections and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, whenever um depend depends on what, for example, when we when we um uh I'm reminded of uh Wham. West West Houston West Houston area ministries, right? So sometimes Father Mara would do hey, today's second collection is going for Wham. And the entire second collection went to Wham, right, right? So um there's a couple of distinctions. Depends at how um for different parishes, Reverend. So for example, uh take take the Vatican. The Vatican is a historical place, so there's art there. Right. Well, what I mean is that some of their income also comes from, for example, people visiting there. There's a museum, there's of course so there's there's some property that's owned there too, that's rented, and so but that's at different levels. Normal parishes within the church.
SPEAKER_07I'm not talking about the veteran, I'm talking about the local church. Right.
SPEAKER_02It's donations, we do banquets, we do fundraising events. Absolutely. There's different like uh the Knights of Columbus that also do fundraising, fish fries and that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_07I think the Presbyterians were involved with it, uh Sportsman year banquet, which they don't do anymore. But it was a fundraiser with the Knights of Columbus.
SPEAKER_02And we do fundraising and then and they answer to the pastor of that church. So if the priority is, hey guys, we have a leaky roof, we need to change the roof, we need $20,000 to change the roof, that's what we need to do.
SPEAKER_07Okay, but but how but i in the Jewish community, a memberized synagogue will tell us what they think they can give, and we hope to get it. There's very little monitoring, if you know what I mean. So is this monitored what comes in the plate, or is it just whatever you get, you get and that's it?
SPEAKER_02No, not at all. Yeah. It's I mean, the the uh sometimes when it's maybe an emergency, we would do a special. No, I'm talking about No, no, but even what I mean is even in an emergency, you never know.
SPEAKER_07Okay, right?
SPEAKER_02Because we can come up there and say, look, the building's on fire, nothing's working. We need them. We need what we need uh well, for example, when when they started breaking glasses and stuff at at the church, right? Like these are things that happen. Yeah, they started throwing rocks and vandalism. It's unexpected things, right? But you don't you can't talk about the regular monthly bills of the We can't pay the bills unless we go to a break.
SPEAKER_07Yes, speaking of which, David, when we come back, I I want to know your response to this is TNTH 1070, and we'll be right back.
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SPEAKER_07David,
Protestant Pledges And Budget Reality
SPEAKER_07in the in the in the Protestant churches, like everything from snake handlers to uh to the Queen of England, I think is your line, uh how how do they do they monitor?
SPEAKER_09Do they have pledges or dues like Yeah, well, yeah, I mean it look uh Protestant churches are all over the place. A lot of churches ask for pledges and and they build a budget based upon the pledges that they get. So if you get pledges to a million dollars, you don't say, well, let's do a budget for two million. You know, you might you might push that and say, well, let's do a budget for 1.2 million, something like that. But but again, you you have all sorts of different models that you have. I I've been in churches before where a pastor will get up and say, uh, you know, we need $20,000 today in order to do X, Y, and Z. Right. And so and so they'll they'll spend, they'll spend some time in the service saying, Now, brother so-and-so, can you give five thousand dollars today for this cause? And the person will say, Well, yeah, maybe that's been prearranged out of the stuff. Of course. Sometimes it is. And then but then they'll go down and say, Brother, who can give us two thousand dollars? Brother so and so, can you give me two thousand dollars? Yeah, I can give you that. So that I mean there are churches that sometimes raise money that way. Okay. But all of that is monitored. There are there are people that watch that. There are people to make sure that that if $20,000 is given to to put a new air conditioner in, uh, that that money is really spent for that. The financial committee. Yeah, yeah. And then also people who give money, because churches are 501c free organizations, we have to answer to the government. So a person that gives a $5,000 gift to for the air conditioning, uh, that person will have a tax deduction at the end of the year for that $5,000 plus whatever else he or she is given at that point. But yeah, there are these these things are monitored. But nobody's gonna show up at your door and say, you pledge ten thousand dollars this year out of your income, and you've only given four thousand. What's up with that? I don't know of any church where that happens. Oh, okay. So they're they're not monitored. Not monitored in that way. But I mean, yeah, I get a when I give, I get a receipt at the end of the year that says I've given this amount of money, but nobody's gonna come to me and say, you pledged X dollars and you only given one half X.
SPEAKER_08Right.
SPEAKER_09Therefore what is what's going on here.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, they're not gonna get a little bit of no where's our money. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_09Go go
Televangelist Tactics And Manipulation
SPEAKER_09let me let me let me transition back just for a second to the to the the uh the the TV preachers and such that you thought you were talking about. We we spent a lot of time talking about that. I I don't think that's as significant as as someone might say, but uh there are all sorts of opinions on those things, but there have been times and there have been elements of that that have been abusive to the donation, and where where they would say to people, you know, God will give you a special blessing and promise certain things. I will send you this prayer match that uh that has that has you know the face of Jesus on it if you will send me this donation. Right. And and those kind of things. And and they use they use they use um they use methods that I think are are unwise, unkind, and probably uh abusive in order to get more and more money out of poorer and poorer people. And a lot of times it's it's the poorest people who watch these shows. It's the poorest people who give the most and and give a lot because there's more of them. And they give sacrificially thinking they're gonna give a blessing, get a blessing somehow or not. And they may, they may get some sort of blessing. I I'm sure they do. I'm sure many people do, but they use tactics that I think are unchristian in order to manipulate people in the game.
SPEAKER_07There's psychological tricks and and yes. Yeah, but but anything can be abused.
SPEAKER_02Anything good That's what going back to what you were saying in the beginning, the lust. The lust yes, right? So it's it's the disordered use of something natural, right? And I think that's kind of circling back to what we were talking about.
SPEAKER_07Disordered use of something natural of something natural given by God.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So it's uh the example that that he was giving, right? It's and I think it applies to all things, right? Especially especially as something so polarizing as money. Because
Inequality Modern Wealth And Meaning
SPEAKER_02I mean, culturally today we see it everywhere, right? Seems like that's because the distance between the rich and the poor is getting bigger. But we're also much everybody's also much, much richer. I agree with what you're saying. That's also it's a good statistic, but also way more people are way more richer. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_07More millionaires have been making it.
SPEAKER_02There's more millionaires, there's more billionaires. Yes, and you're right. There is uh there might even be a trillionaire within our lifetime, you know, but but that just gives you a how would you say uh a KPI, a key performance indicator, if you will, of how our economy is going, right? If you think about it, that's how much wealth we're producing. We're extracting minerals way more efficiently. We're finding things, we're inventing things. Of course it's gonna, especially if that thing that you do brings value to your community.
SPEAKER_07Because there's politics is going to be a good thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or heck, Chad GPT. Right. Right? I mean, this guy's worth what, like a hundred billion over in two, three years? It's it's like an imaginable amount of wealth in a short period of time. The thing about that was a thousand years ago that was unconceivable, right? Unless you were like Emperor of Rome.
SPEAKER_07That amount of money still is inconceivable. Rabbi, we're gonna invent the next JGPT don't worry. What a movie makes. Yeah. What a movie makes to the Marvel movies.
SPEAKER_02What billion, billions, and billions of dollars? Yeah, it's it's but think about it. How many families were brought together, how many producers were were uh were put to jobs, how many filmmakers, editors, designers. I mean, the amount of jobs that creates is and look, yeah, we can sit here and and argue about really how much of a cultural good that's doing, right? I think that's a separate concept. Right. So I mean if we can talk about you know Shawshank Redemption versus Iron Man to the United States.
SPEAKER_07So but it's that was a great movie and a terrible movie at the same time. Which one? The American President.
SPEAKER_02Oh, the one with uh Michael Douglas. Michael Douglas I like that movie.
SPEAKER_07I like it, but oh that's really the leftist movie. It was. It really was.
SPEAKER_02It's like that other show. Um Did you ever see West Wing? No. You didn't like it? I've never watched it. I don't I don't even think I've seen it.
SPEAKER_05Father Mario made a lot of left-leaning.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Well, that's what I mean. I mean So was the American president. The drama and what was going on was interesting because it gave you a peek into kind of how but yeah, I mean it was he was clearly written by the Democrat.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Yeah, the Democrat, exactly. All right.
Rich And Poor Plus Closing Jokes
SPEAKER_05Well, we have about a minute, two minutes left. So what do you mean? So why does God move?
SPEAKER_09Let me just say, you know, if anybody wants a blessing, they can send cards and letters to this radio station and uh and rabbi Rabbi is gonna bless them.
SPEAKER_02No, Rabbi and Mario are gonna give you a personal blessing. Right. In Judaism, we don't bless things. We're also things. Can we also sell stuff? Can we sell crosses or something? I don't know. Can we can we go ahead?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, send us some money and uh please don't advertise a cross blessed by a rabbi.
SPEAKER_05Ooh, that would be good. No, not gonna happen.
SPEAKER_07Oh sorry. That would be funny.
SPEAKER_05Wouldn't that be an interesting raffle?
SPEAKER_07That would be no. We don't bless things, we bless God for things. Oh Lord. Okay. Yeah. All right. So why does God make some people rich and some people poor?
SPEAKER_05Because he loves pu poorer people so he makes them poor.
SPEAKER_07So he loves people so he makes them.
SPEAKER_05Actually, you know, let me let me tell you, let me tell you, there's not not so so far off. Think about uh uh the the way that lives sometimes have been ruined by the uh uh the entrance of wealth into their lives.
SPEAKER_07Read all about people winning lotteries.
SPEAKER_05That's right. So you know the the the I I was thinking about that because uh even today I went to you know, I I I serve a mass at a a very poor parish and at a very rich parish every other week. And uh I was thinking, you know, I I I don't I don't I don't see the level of happiness being tremendously different just because people have money. I see the uh and and I've always and I've always enjoyed um like St. Cyril's wasn't a rich parish, but I enjoyed it because especially sometimes if you have overly rich people, what happens is when they give you money it has strings attached.
SPEAKER_07Right. So uh you know they say there's a real quick way to there's a real quick way to get every member of your family to sue you, win a large lot of money.
SPEAKER_02Uh uh from a Catholic perspective, Rabbi, to answer your question, it's tied to our fallen condition that inequality. What is the question I have? The question. So I know this is obviously there's a lot of disagreement, but from our perspective, there's a lot of you're wrong. Well, I'm the newest one here.
SPEAKER_07But you're here. You're here, Rudy. Glad you came back.
SPEAKER_05So who's gonna do show director next week? Um Is it me?
SPEAKER_07Uh we'll tell you in a minute.
SPEAKER_05Uh uh Rabbi has this.
SPEAKER_07Uh me, Rudy.
SPEAKER_05Rudy.
SPEAKER_07Uh Mario, me, Rudy, David. So I just did tonight. Rudy, you're up next week. We are up next week.
SPEAKER_02Are you here? I I fly back. I fly back on Friday, but I will be coming back here eventually. More often. Please, God. We'll look forward to it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07In real life.
SPEAKER_02Bring your wife with you.
SPEAKER_05Bring your wife with you next week.
SPEAKER_02Oh, she's much better than I am.
SPEAKER_05Let me tell you, do you know height? One joke. Quick. What what is the name what did the drummer name his two daughters? Anna one, Anna two. Anna one and Anna two. Anna one. Hey, but you know.
SPEAKER_02This is a good one.
SPEAKER_05You know, I I I was dating two women at the same time until I find out. One of them their names was Kate and the other one was Edith. Until I found out you can't have your Kate and Edith, too. This is KNTH 1070. And we will be right back next week. Next week. Next week. And we look forward to see to having you in our audience. Please, during this week, keep us in your prayers because you're going to be in ours.
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