A Show of Faith
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A Show of Faith
Episode 184: Why Culture Shapes Politics More Than Laws
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Something feels off in public life right now, and it is not just elections or headlines. We dig into a “conservative credo” as a way to name what many people sense: human beings are capable of good and evil, so concentrated power is always dangerous. From that starting point, we debate a sharp question: can you be politically conservative without belief in God, or do conservative ideals still require some grounding in human nature and objective moral limits?
We then move upstream to the primacy of culture. We define culture as the shared way of life we inherit and pass on, and we argue that politics follows what a society worships, celebrates, and excuses. That leads us into progressivism and expressive individualism, where identity is treated as self-made and “my truth” replaces objective truth. We connect those shifts to the pressures of modern technology, loneliness, and the growing evidence that people are not flourishing even when they are more “connected” than ever.
From there we unpack subsidiarity, why problems are often best solved by family, faith communities, and local associations instead of distant bureaucracy. We also talk virtue over ideology through the cardinal virtues (wisdom, fairness, courage, self-control), and we close with equality under the law paired with a realistic view of differences in talent and outcome. If you care about conservatism, culture, limited government, virtue ethics, and human flourishing, this one is for you. Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review, then tell us: which part of this credo do you agree with most?
Cold Open And Introductions
SPEAKER_12There's something happening here, but what it is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there. Telling me I got to beware. I think it's time we stop. Children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down.
SPEAKER_16Welcome to a show of faith on AM107 the answer. Where a professor, priest, millennial, and rabbi discuss theology, philosophy, morality, ethics, and anything else that we find interesting. If you have any response to our topics, to any comments regarding what we say, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at a show of faith1070 at gmail.com, ashooffaith1070 at gmail.com. You can hear our shows again and again by listening pretty much anywhere podcasts are heard. Our priest is Father Mario Arroyo, retired pastor of St. Cyril of Alexandria, the 10,000 block of Westheimer.
SPEAKER_09Hello.
SPEAKER_16Our professor is David Capes, Protestant minister and director of academic programming for the Lanier Theological Library. Gentlemen, hello, hello. Rudy Kong is our millennial systems engineer. Rudy Kong is our millennial systems engineer and has his master's degree in theology from the University of St. Thomas. I am Stuart Federal, retired rabbi of congregations to R Hello in the Clear Lake Area of Houston, Texas, and Crystal is our board operator. She is the one who helps us sound fantastic.
SPEAKER_08She makes us sound crystal clear.
SPEAKER_16Crystal clear crystal clear. That was good. That was very good.
Why A Conservative Credo
SPEAKER_16Well done. Well done. And tonight, Mario is our show director.
SPEAKER_08I am. Tonight I I read an article that I thought was very, very good. And I had uh ChatGPT uh summarize the article because, of course, our audience, 99.9% of the people who are listening to us have probably never heard of the article. Um the article is called the uh a conservative credo. And a credo is uh a a Latin word of saying creed. And we're going to be talking about um the four four um the five different things that conservatives stand for. That's one of the things that I wanted to do, mainly because of this. I think the four of us are on a fairly conservative.
SPEAKER_16I believe that's true.
SPEAKER_08And so um we are, of course, of different religions. Um I'm the right religion, but the rest of you are of correct religions. Oh, you're so kind to say that, thank you. Um and uh and so but uh what binds us in common is a philosophy uh uh that um really uh gives a puts us all in the same camp. And it's interesting because I'd like to, not majorly, but I'd like to compare it to whenever we talk about the principles of conservativism, conservatism. It's interesting. I thought it was conservativism, but it's conservatism. Uh uh so but I'd like then I'd like to just kind of mention what's the opposite. What is it?
SPEAKER_16In order to understand one, you have to talk about the opposite too.
SPEAKER_08Because and the other one, it's gotten the name of progressive. The the issue I I always have find it found out, I mean not figured found out, figured out, is you have to ask a question, if you're progressive, where are you progressing to? And sometimes uh where you're progressive is not where you're going is not a very good thing. So I'd I'd like to start out. David, did you get the second? David and Rudy, did you get the second one I sent out?
SPEAKER_03Um I've got one of them, but I'm not sure I've got the second.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, the second one should be further i i I sent it out.
SPEAKER_16More recent.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. But anyway, it doesn't matter. I will read it. I think I have it.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, I think I have it.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. Okay. So there are five of these things, five main parts, and I'm gonna try and do um one each second. Quarter. One one each quarter, and then try to f fluck uh, you know, put squeeze the last one in. The first one, and I just I'm gonna read it for our audience so that you can hear it, and then I'm gonna ask you guys to comment on it and what what's valuable about
God, Fallibility, And Limited Power
SPEAKER_08that. The first one is a conservative moral and spiritual rooting, R-O-O-T-I-N-G, the roots of morality and spirituality. Conservatism acknowledges God as creator and recognizes human fallibility. Because humans are flawed, the conservative seeks to limit the concentration of power to prevent abuse. Comment, Raiby.
SPEAKER_16I'm not quite sure I like the way it's stated because I think that a person can actually believe I'm sorry, an a a person can actually be an atheist and still be politically conservative. I think that saying that uh the moral and spiritual rooting of conservative conservatism acknowledges God as creator and recognizes human fallibility. I still I just think you can be conservative without necessarily believe acknowledging God, but you have to recognize that people can make mistakes either by accident or by intent. And therefore you have to build bulwarks against their It's interesting.
SPEAKER_08Uh I won't I don't want to go into this right now, but I I would argue with you that yes, you can be conservative and be an atheist, but not a very secure one. Well, no, but that's a that's a different issue, I think. It's a different issue. It's a different issue.
SPEAKER_16The political approach still has to be rooted in a moral. The problem is there is no place to root. Absolutely. But they can still have a kind of weaker conservatism. Right. Okay. And that's where it says the conservative seeks to limit the concentration of power to prevent abuse. Yes. What's the line? I now I can't think of the line. Uh power corrupts and absolute power corrupts. Corrupts absolute. Thank you. Yeah. And I and I I think conservativism directly responds to that. I'm not sure that liberalism does. No. David.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh first of all, uh, thanks for sending us along. I I may not have the the more recent. I have eight uh sort of statements, and uh which is fine. I can I can piece it. I'm glad that uh I'm a little I was a little concerned when I heard the conservative Credo because I was afraid that it would it was gonna sound like a creed. I believe this, that, or the other, which would be a cultural appropriation of Christian creeds, which was would not be good, I don't suppose. But but it strikes me that that statement that you just read is is is a religious statement, but it's not really sectarian. In other words, you could be Muslim and hold to very much uh many of those kind of things. You could be Jewish, you could be uh you could be various sundry Christians, you could be other things. So there is a religious aspect, but it's not an sectarian one. Um where I would I would agree with each one of them, where it seems like it's distinctively Christian to me, is the idea that human beings are fallible or flawed. And um which which I mean I I think you can demonstrate both religiously, but also I think you could demonstrate that just by observation, um, that that human beings are are deeply flawed and really capable of of great evil and great good. We we've seen that historically. And I like the idea that that we seek to limit the concentration of power. I think that's very important. That's why oligarchies are so dangerous, that's why socialism and certain kinds of communism is so dangerous, that's why the Islamic Republic of Iran is so dangerous. Um it's not dangerous because it's Islamic, I don't, I don't, I wouldn't think, because there's a lot of other Islamic uh governments, but it's because of the kind of Islamic government that it is, where it concentrates power in just a few people who could take the countries in in just terrible situations. Yeah. But I do think that I do I do think that this is a this is a very strong statement of kind of what conservative ideology is is beginning with.
SPEAKER_08By the way, David, I just sent you a copy of the newer one just to you. Okay. Rudy, are you there? Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'm here. Comment. Um I I I I think that to be an atheist that is also conservative, I have to I think you have to be an authentic student of history. Um I don't think you can you know what I mean? Like I I I I don't think you can look at history, World War I, II communist regimes in in the light of, you know, I don't even know how you grapple with communism to begin with as an atheist, but regardless, right? I think you have to really understand how unchecked power misguided can lead to just extreme suffering and pain and destruction. So I think once you understand that, and I think once you acknowledge that, um, and of course as a Catholic, um, right, I would say like this this this original thing, right? Um, but that we understand that we all are capable of great evil, then you need to absolutely look at limits to these concentrations of power, right? To prevent abusers, as uncomfortable as they may seem or or as how would you say uh as invasive sometimes too, right? Because uh you think of like a police officer, right? And and and uh and I've been pulled over and I've done things and and at a fundamental level. There's a there's a saying in Spanish. Um you'll help me translate this, but like, you know, if you don't um that's interesting.
SPEAKER_08I don't know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's so pretty much it's it's I don't fear what I don't owe. And if I'm confident that I haven't committed any wrong, then then there's a this kind of fundament fundamental belief that whatever's gonna happen, it's in God's hands. You know, so I'm not scared of uh uh of this of of this sort of uh communal agreement that we all have of of turning over certain yeah um privileges, right?
SPEAKER_16Okay, d you're yes, I I a couple of things, Rudy. The uh I first of all, in the description I prefer the word fallible to the word flawed. I don't believe they're the same. Whatever. But uh I well, I I'll I'll leave it at that. I know you want to have a lot of things.
SPEAKER_08I just wanted to say something because I want to I want to take a turn. I want to take a turn too. Why? I'm just not the referee. No, uh it's interesting because uh I, you know, your comment about the the fact of being a conservative atheist, even though I do think it is possible, I think the problem is going to be that uh any time that you seek to uphold conservative principles, um you're going to be accused of being somewhat tyrannical. Because you you you have no you you c see if there is no God, there is no such thing as human nature, because uh there's no uh di there's no uh creator to delimit the the nate the human nature.
SPEAKER_16Aaron Ross Powell And I understand that. And I basically agree with you, but I don't want to exclude somebody who's gonna say, oh, well, they're saying to be conservative, you have to believe in their God, or you have to believe in their approach to humanity.
SPEAKER_08No, but you have to believe in some you have to believe, you have to argue, and I'm saying let them argue for it, a basis for your conservative ideals.
SPEAKER_16If you have you have to have a You know, maybe a better word that I'm saying you don't have to be is religious, is belonging to a specific religion. Maybe that would be a better approach.
SPEAKER_08Because you know, there's uh quite a few people these days that are uh uh very much uh as affirming Christian culture, which are saying, I don't believe in Jesus, I don't believe in the you know the resurrection, I'm not religious, but I affirm the benefits of Christian culture. And that's that's been happening.
SPEAKER_16I meant that they don't belong to a church, they don't go regularly. Yeah, that's true. But they still might say, well, I believe in God, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_08Right. Okay. Okay. So for for me, it it's just uh it's super important to uh you know that belief in a creator, because whatever your creator is, mainly because even if it's not the the Jewish Christian tradition, a creator, because you have to have someone setting up.
SPEAKER_16That's right, human humanity.
SPEAKER_08But otherwise, uh you know, you can say, well, I you may be believe in human dignity, but uh I don't. And I and you go in.
SPEAKER_16Well, you might say that I I can dox you and and I can uh what's it called? Zero you out. Uh uh forgot the word. Yeah. Uh cancel. Cancel. I can cancel you. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_08Because because there's no there's no guardrails, according to me. So anyway, this is KMTH, and we'll be back with point number two in just a minute.
SPEAKER_05For those who have served our nation, reminds us of why we salute our flag, why we put our hands on our hearts for the Pledge of Allegiance, and why we proudly stand for the national anthem. All of us, together, as one team, one people, and one American family can do anything. We all share the same home, the same heart, the same destiny, and the same great American flag.
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Culture Comes Before Politics
SPEAKER_16Welcome back to a show of faith on AM107 the answer.
SPEAKER_08Well, we are now going to go to point number two. Um let me ask uh Chad TPT, could you just ask me something that I'm I want to get at something very quick? Um what is culture?
SPEAKER_16And I think it's important, Mario, because when people hear culture, they think Italian food. They think I like Italian culture, or you know, Swiss cheese, or and that's not really what we mean by culture. Here is like a culture of a business or a culture of the PR.
SPEAKER_08Let me read the the principle. The primacy of culture. The essay argues that culture is more fundamental than politics. Political challenges are often reflections of underlying moral and spiritual crises, implying that true societal change must be rooted in a cultural and personal renewal. Now, the c the the definition of culture that I got from Chat GPT is culture is the shared way of life of a group of people. It includes beliefs, values, customs, behavior, and traditions that people learn and pass on from one generation to another.
SPEAKER_16And uh and yes. Okay. See, I think that's I think it's important to say that because people use the word culture that way, but they also use it in a different way. That's problematic.
SPEAKER_08But the primacy of culture, do you believe that culture is that that politics is down downriver from culture? And I do.
SPEAKER_16I believe that wholeheartedly in so many different aspects of life. And let me quickly tell you of an experience I had. There was a friend of mine who was a police officer and he was working with gangs. And he said that more important than anything is the culture of each community that had the gang. So, for example, because the white man had stolen the dignity and the power of the black men's for so long that if you wanted to talk to a black gang, you have to recognize and acknowledge their power. When you talk to an Asian gang, you had to recognize and acknowledge their business acumen. Because that for the for the Asian community in gangs, I'm quoting him, don't blame me, I'm only the messenger. He said that it was all about the business. So if you respond to their business, you can talk to them. Okay. Uh but you get the idea of what I'm saying. And the culture creates the values, and the values creates their behavior. That is correct. Right.
SPEAKER_08David.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I think culture is prior to politics. I mean, culture gives birth to politics, basically. And uh I would say that we do have, and we've used this term before, and some people don't like it, and it creates a little discomfort, but we have a Judeo-Christian culture that we have inherited that goes goes way back. And it has customs, beliefs, values, all those kinds of things, habits. Um that doesn't mean Judaism and Christianity is the same, it's they're very different in in any ways. But there's an inherited culture from both of those. And I think that has chosen or that has given birth to a kind of political animal that we have, you know, here with a republic in the United States, constitutional republic, and with the constitutional ideals that we see represented in the rights, declaration of independence are founding documents.
SPEAKER_08Okay. Rudy? Rudy?
SPEAKER_04Sorry, I was on mute. Um I I don't think I uh to me this is this is uh this is kind of a no-brainer, right? Is when we talk about the culture, it's how we decide the transcendentals, and then these transcendentals are then what guide activity, and then more importantly, communal activity, and how we then put boundaries around those activities in essentially politics, right? Discussing those boundaries. So it's it's the sort of logical root, if you will, of politics is a healthy culture, right? From like David was saying from a Judeo-Christian perspective, which is why, in my strong opinion, America is what it is today. I mean, for for better or for worse, or hard many people you know, care to criticize it. It it lacked at the test it it I would say, uh lack of the test of time for so long because of these transcendent that we have embedded within our culture. And the closer we get to eradicating that, you know, within our culture, it's gonna reflect that in our politics, which is what you see with abortion, with sex change, with all these kind of destructions of Let me let me ask uh let me ask a question for all of the three of you.
SPEAKER_08Um tell me a little bit about um how progressivism has influenced this, because for example, the trans movement, the abortion movement, how has culture changed our laws there? Are we much more um the culture? Has become much more what's called expressive individualism, that I am my feelings and my ultimate happiness is the primary thing. So the culture seems to be changing the laws that we used to base our society on. Progressivism. Yeah. So so progressivism has influenced the culture because we have become more expressive individualists. That means your feelings are the main thing and your own happiness and your own internal feelings are most important. And so that is be making its way into law.
SPEAKER_16Because it was in culture.
SPEAKER_08Because it is in the culture.
SPEAKER_16And you have to ask the question where did that come into the culture from? Yep.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_16And that's that could be a complicated issue.
SPEAKER_08Yep. Rudy, you were going to say something?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I was going to say I think a lot of it is directly rooted to the the sort of extreme connectivity, quote unquote connectivity in technology that we face. The more uh I mean, if you look at statistics, it's like people we're we're more alone now, we spend more time in solitude. We may think we're more connected, but I think there's uh a correlation between these quote unquote progressive ideological breakthroughs that are happening culturally with the advent of of misguided and misused technology, you know.
SPEAKER_08Okay.
SPEAKER_04Uh because technology is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's but misuse, right?
SPEAKER_08David, you got a couple minutes. What do you want to say?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I would say that there's just been a kind of a basic hint of a loss of the idea of what what is true. That there are objective truths that are prior to our existence. Two plus two equals four was in play before I ever existed. So how I feel about it doesn't really uh change things. It'll it'll be in play after after I so some things are just true objectively. And I think those kind of uh sophisticated that's not a sophisticated example, obviously, but those kind of arguments about the idea of truth and and what's interior to me being my truth. And that's part of the part of the assistance my truth is this, my truth is that. But but there is such a thing, and I think most uh decent philosophers would would would look at it, and other other uh political theorists as well, is that there are certain things that are just true regardless of how we feel, and regardless of how we see the world. And I think there's been a loss of that, and and I think there's an attempt to reclaim this, because uh just for example, Harvard University has started this human flourishing project where they are looking at you know the the the challenges of in this modern progressive culture that people are not flourishing, that people are not doing well, that people are not happy, people are are more isolated, people are more disconnected, you know, despite all the abilities that we have to connect and such. So I I I think that that those kinds of things are at play in culture that are technological but that are also extremes and and and a kind of an individualism.
SPEAKER_08Okay. Uh expressive individualism.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_08By the way, uh if I may just take one second, I'm going to highlight and recommend a book for every one of our listeners by one of my favorite theologians, Presbyterian minister by the name of Carl Truman. And the brand new book, which I promise you will really enjoy, is called The Desecration of Man, How the Rejection of God Degrades Our Humanity. The Desecration of Man, How the Rejection of God Degrades Our Humanity by Carl R. True Man, T-R-U-E, M-A-N. This is T A M T H 1070, and we'll be right back.
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Subsidiarity And Local Responsibility
SPEAKER_08Let me read the quick explanation there. The author of the article emphasizes the importance of addressing human needs at the most local level possible. The family, the house of worship, and community associations are viewed as the essential building blocks of civilization, capable of providing the kind of personal care and accountability that a government cannot.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, but the problem is that the liberal community wants daddy to take over and to protect them and to make them feel safe. And so they want government, not the local level, but the ethereal government to come down from on high and make things all better.
SPEAKER_03David You know, I think uh I have to to give my Catholic friends uh credit. I don't think I had ever heard the term subsidiarity. Until I I saw it in relationship, maybe it's Pope John Paul II.
SPEAKER_09I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_03But I think there is something very fundamental about this that can be demonstrated um both in in a social sciences as well as in you know the some political realm. And I do think that we we are bet we are best loved, cared for by people who are close to us. And I don't think a person who never met me in Washington really gives a fig about me, you know, as a person, as a human being. No, and and um they might they might have a job to do and that they provide me aid in a in a disaster, let's say.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But the people that are really gonna love and care for me and do what is best for me um in times of need, human need, and there are those. Are those people who are closest to me at my level, right? They're they're gonna be my friends, they're gonna be my family, they're gonna be people that that know me, that know my name, know you know my family, etc. And I think this is this is the kind of thing, and uh, and but you're you're right, there are some people that was just one big, strong federal government that'll just take care of the body from cradle to grave.
SPEAKER_08It's it's very interesting. I heard that it's kind of a humorous thing, but what is the worst thing that you can hear in a civil society?
SPEAKER_16We're from the government and we're here to help. That was Ronald Reagan's line. Oh, right. And we're here to help. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Rudy very frightening, frightening word.
SPEAKER_08Rudy.
SPEAKER_04There's an interesting quote. Um subsidiarity without solidarity becomes libertarianism, and solidarity without subsidiarity becomes saintism.
SPEAKER_16Say that both again, please.
SPEAKER_04Subsidiarity without solidarity becomes libertarianism.
SPEAKER_08And then everybody doesn't solidity.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly. Everybody exactly. And then solidarity without subsidiarity becomes safetyism, which is okay to think that everything, right?
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Got it. So and I think I think this is kind of where um most Americans I I think when we talk about political leaning, right? And I I think the issue is uh I don't know if you were talking about earlier, when we talk about progressivism, right you know, how far is too far? Because here we are in California and and I mean we're literally changing and having sex change operations for children.
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And here we are redefining and you progress what a family means.
SPEAKER_08You progress right right over you progress right over a cliff.
SPEAKER_04Well, right, and then you progress right over basic things like first do no harm.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so and then how do you define how oh well it it harms your your individuality or your psychology, or you think you're depri you know, and so we start kind of personalizing things.
SPEAKER_08Ultimately, Rudy, the problem is of that that since w you remove the fact that there is a God or there is a creator and that there are an intelligent designer that gives us a human nature, then you you you have no guardrails anymore. But listen, I would like to I would like to continue, because there's actually five of these. And so since we have about six minutes, I want to go on to the next
Virtue Over Ideology
SPEAKER_08one. Okay, and principle number four is virtue over ideology. Virtue over ideology. I'm gonna read the little paragraph. The conservative life is defined by the practice of the cardinal virtues prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, and a dedication to the true, the good, and the beautiful. What do you think? You're gonna have to run that again because the conservative life is defined by practice of the virtues, too. Forget the cardinal, the virtues prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance, and a dedication to the true, the good, and the beautiful.
SPEAKER_16Absolutely, and I'll tell you why. Just personal experience listening to those who are conservative and comparing it to those who are liberal. The liberals tend to only see the negative. It's like you want to shout out them. Is there anything in the world that's good? Because they're so busy critiquing and what's their fancy term now? Uh uh d d deconstructing. Yes. Okay. They're so busy doing that, it's like I I I have to tear down the the trees because I need this to look for the forest. It self-defeating proves your point.
SPEAKER_08It's interesting because in the desecration of men, which I'm currently reading, um, Carl Truman says that we have now belong to a society that revels in transgression.
SPEAKER_16Revels in transgression.
SPEAKER_08In other words, that transgression of the traditional norms has become exciting, and that's how you define yourself as an independent person by rejecting whatever is traditional.
SPEAKER_16I'm going to show how independent and and powerful I am because I'm going to reject everything that came before me.
SPEAKER_08That is correct.
SPEAKER_16That makes sense.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, that is correct. David?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I think it'd be helpful for people if we uh sort of gave a different word to each of the four virtues, because we don't use the term prudence much and fortitude, and you know, what would be some synonyms to those? I mean, I agree.
SPEAKER_08That's a good idea. Good idea. Yeah. Like uh Rudy, what's a good other word for prudence or justice, fortitude or temperance? Um prudence.
SPEAKER_04Like having maybe self-control, right?
SPEAKER_08Okay, discernment? Um David, do you have anyone?
SPEAKER_03Well, I I would I mean, I've just penciled in here. I think prudence is another way of speaking about wisdom.
SPEAKER_08That's another thing just discernment.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's is just seeking what is right.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. I I think what is right. I would say prudence is about choosing what is right for a particular situation. You're being prudent. Okay.
SPEAKER_03But what about what about and and then fortitude is courage.
SPEAKER_08It's courage.
SPEAKER_03Is another word saying courage. And temperance is about self-control.
SPEAKER_08Yes, self-control.
SPEAKER_16Okay. I hear temperance, I think alcoholic beverages.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, and and then you have justice. Right. And and justice is an interesting one because justice is giving to a person what is the right their right to have.
SPEAKER_16Their right or what is right?
SPEAKER_08No, their right. In other words, uh you have a right to life. Okay? You you can if I take your right to life away, I'm being unjust. You you have to be you have to be owed something in order for it to be taken away to be called unjust.
SPEAKER_03Okay. But it's not necessarily a person saying, Well, I have a right to uh eat all the milkshake, something like that.
SPEAKER_16No, no. Right. That's uh you know, it can be it can be it can be silly and to me there's a relationship between rightness and having a right. That's correct. And so to me, justice has more to do with what is right and fair. And to use the word in the same definition, what is right, fair, and just it's all it's a bit for me, uh these days I'm very much enjoying a part of our Eucharistic liturgy that uh it goes like this, it's just in one sentence.
SPEAKER_08It says, It is right and just, it is our duty and our salvation always and everywhere to give you thanks, Almighty and ever living God. It is right and just it is our duty and our salvation to give you thanks. And I say to people, why is it unjust not to give thanks to God? Because he is owed that. Because what he is owed that.
SPEAKER_16Gratitude.
SPEAKER_08We owe gratitude.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, let me back up a little bit to say that those four virtues are um not distinctly religious.
SPEAKER_16No, correct.
SPEAKER_03They they go they go back to as I recall Aristotle, and so they are pre-Christian in origin. They come alongside roughly at the same time Judaism is as uh moving back, and people are coming back to the land and such of Israel. And so so it's not distinctly religious. These are these are virtues that are recognized by secularists and by moralists throughout the ages. And uh this is this is uh even though I think they're they're seconded and appreciated in both Christianity and Judaism as well.
SPEAKER_16David, just I'm I'm forgetting what word you had for fortitude. You had a great per courage, courage, right?
SPEAKER_03Another way of saying is cur courage, you know, standing firm, right, being courageous, uh that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_16Wisdom, fairness, courage, and self-control. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Okay. Okay, this is 1070 KMTH, and we'll be right back.
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SPEAKER_06Jimmy doesn't see the joke. Jimmy Kimmel gave this mock dinner speech.
SPEAKER_13Our first lady Melania is here. Look at what's so beautiful. Mr. Trump, you have a glow like an expectant widow.
SPEAKER_06Laughing. Laughing is that they were. Do you get it? Folks, they aren't hiding it and they aren't sorry about it either. This got genetic job.
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Equality Under Law And Talent
SPEAKER_16Oh, maniac. Welcome back to a show of things.
SPEAKER_08Okay, now we're in the last segment, and we're going to go to the last one, which is equality and individualism. While affirming that all individuals possess equal dignity before the law, the essay celebrates natural differences in talents, outcomes, rejecting the idea of leveling to eliminate variations.
SPEAKER_16There's a phenomenal short story by Kurt Vonnegut, where everybody has to wear devices so that everybody is exactly the same. So if you are exceptionally handsome, you are wearing a mask to make you ugly. If you have a great singing voice, then you wear a device to prevent you from singing.
SPEAKER_07Oh my god.
SPEAKER_16So that every the everybody in society, and it's about breaking out of the mold that what amounts to the government wants to make everybody by making everybody level.
SPEAKER_08Right. Okay. David Ross. Okay, equality and individualism. While affirming that all individuals possess equal dignity before the law, the essay celebrates natural differences in talents, in outcomes, rejecting the idea of leveling to eliminate these variations.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the equality of opportunities. Um I I really don't want to see Father Mario playing basketball for the uh Atlanta Hawks, please. I really don't want to see that. Um I don't want to see Stuart Federal, you know, behind the plate catching uh an Astros pitcher.
SPEAKER_16No, I was first base in center field.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, you know, the first base was was first base. Um, you know, that kind of thing. I mean you know, the the the idea that we're somehow um um all sort of intended to be blended in that I I I think there we we should celebrate beauty, we should celebrate great singing voices, we should uh celebrate people who are tall and can run fast and shoot baskets and and and score all those kind of things and not just sort of try to just homogenize everything. Um that just makes uh life extremely boring. That certainly just compromises everything that human beings are made to do. My my skills and my talents aren't aren't don't run around the same tracks as other people's.
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I I shouldn't be out there demanding, you know, that I have uh an op I should have an opportunity to play center for the 12 LP 70 sixties or something. That that makes sense, right? That makes no sense. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I think it's important when when we talk about Catholic social teaching, it's it's important to note that personalism, right? That there's uh there's an important distinction that a person is constituted in relation. Right? So within Catholic tradition, right, we believe in the Trinity. So this concept of of commu of community of communal is something of natural law, right? So that means that of course it's important to have equality, but in what, right? And and this is kind of where it gets interesting because we can have and and live in a society where you know, regardless of race, religion, belief, or whatever, we all have an equal right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right? And that's beautiful. Now, exercising that becomes now a little tricky. Now, within Catholicism, there's the sort of like making everybody equal of social economic, I mean, it does talk about sort of putting guardrails, right? Because due to injustices and due to corruption, there is inequality, right? And there is suffering and there is hunger. So we have to fight that type of inequality. But when we talk about um an individual and possessing that dignity, I think it's important to kind of distinguish that as much as I am my own person, right, and I have a soul, and and this kind of human condition is me, right? And I am responsible for my salvation and and and whatnot. But we are also part of this body, this human race, this community. And and I was talking to my wife, um Natalia earlier about this, and it if you think about it, it's this notion of community that has allowed us to, for example, I'm an engineer. Okay, great. So that means I'm good with symptoms, I can run, okay, but I'm not a doctor. But guess what? Another guy or another girl is or is is a doctor. So now I have an individual that can help me treat a disease. And now I have another individual that can look and maybe I can do physical therapy, or she can recommend better diets, or there's a better cook. You know, so this communal living properly ordered allows us to live a life that is less in suffering, less allows us to live longer, right? So these are all good things, right? That we we we if we harmonize and we order correctly, we can we can do. But when we focus on quote unquote this equality, disorder of equality, I guess I would call it, which is radically unequal, right? Because not we know this clearly, but um not everybody as much as we think we live in America meritocracy, we know that that it's not. I mean, there's a lot of people that live uh on the margin, but there's also a lot of people that that don't want to put in the same effort. And I think that's kind of one of the things that we need to guard against is that is that there's a lot of people that do get up every morning, do go to work, do care about their families, do want to be better persons. And some people really don't, you know, for whatever reason, misguided principles. So it's you can't expect an equal result out of that.
SPEAKER_08No, you can't.
Classical Self Versus Self-Creation
SPEAKER_08I want to go one last, we have five minutes left, and I want to just spend the last five minutes comparing uh this self as the uh the classical understanding of the self as I'm compared to the modern understanding of the self, which is what is called expressive individualism. So I'm gonna be comparing um classical the classical self with expressive individualism. Listen to this. Listen to this. The classical self. Identity is received from family, God, and nature. Expressive individualism, identity is constructed and discovered by the individual within. Classical moral order is outside the self. Expressive individualism, moral authority, it's inside me. Three fulfillment through conformity to truth. You fulfill your life by conforming yourself to truth. The expressive individual fulfillment is ex is achieved through self-expression. Now, this is uh to me that the the last one. The first one is important. The identity, your identity is uh primarily received from your family, your country, your religion. In expressive individualism, you construct your own identity and you discover it within. I have to be myself. Okay? And the last one is uh fulfillment of the person is conformity to truth. And then the expressive individualism is fulfillment is a construction of self-expression, self-contract. So that to me, that's exactly the distinction between conservative and liberal.
SPEAKER_16And I agree with the distinctions, but I don't like the title of the individualism because the liberalism is exactly the opposite of individualism. It's whatever the community believes, you have to believe it. And if you don't conform to the community, you're you are you're evil and you're horrible and you're a Nazi and you're terrible and all that stuff. Everything else they said, by defining that, I agree with. I just wouldn't use the word individualism.
SPEAKER_08Well, it's expressive individualism, that your feelings, your feelings are primary.
SPEAKER_16And they are in the liberal community. Yeah, and and it's individual. But only if that expression conforms to everybody else's feelings. That's correct. Or emotions.
SPEAKER_08But your feelings are first.
SPEAKER_16Right. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_08But see, the interesting is that for the for the uh classical, the the fulfillment of you as a person is conforming to the truth. That's very different. David Ross B.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, I think yeah. Yeah, I think the term expressive individualism is is extinct, is very distinct from uh uh sort of a western just a western idea of individualism. Um we are fairly uh you know, in our modern thinking, we we we are identified. I'm identified as I as I am traveling, I'm identified as an American. I'm identified by the language that I speak, I'm identified by the the the job that I do, not not necessarily the individual of the job, but I'm identified as a professor, you know, and of theological studies, let's say. So people people will constru in a way uh understand my identity. I know what an American is, I know what an English-speaking person is, I know what a a professor might be, something that like that. So we share those kind of cultural markers, but uh I'm just not creating myself as I as I go along, right? I'm not just sort of making things up, you know, identifying as this or that. I'm identifying based upon some very basic shared ideas about what an American is, what an English speaker is, what a person from, in my case, being from the southern part of the United States, all those are identity markers and that that go along with the person that I am. Not more than that, of course, but I'm not certainly not less than that.
Love, Meaning, And Final Takeaways
SPEAKER_08Okay, we have reached almost the end. Let me just read the final thing here where it says the ultimate goal, uh, the conclusion of the article is that the purpose of life, and we may disagree with it, but we don't have time, to know and love God and to serve one's neighbor. Ultimately, the conservative worldview is driven by the conviction that love is the highest motivation for the human person and that our societal structures should support that.
SPEAKER_16See, I I would word it differently with conclusion. Okay, I I think that the No real quickly, that the purpose of life is to find our meaning within the limitations of our of our ethics and morals, and the best way to do that is through loving God and helping God.
SPEAKER_08I agree with that. So you've been listening to a show of faith, uh, guided by Father Mario. Next week we will be back with you, and Stuart will be in charge. This is KNTH, Show of Faith.
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