Vishal Shah FUTURIST

Ready to catapult into the future? Join us as we navigate the enthralling realm of Extended Reality (XR) and Metaverse Tech with our esteemed guest, Vishal Shah, GM of XR and Metaverse at Lenovo. We're peeling back the layers of this cutting-edge technology, tracing its roots back to the simple but seismic shift of transition to color TV up to the riveting development of 3D movie experiences. We explore how the convergence of digital transformation, 3D technology, 5G, and AI is brewing a perfect storm for the surge of AR VR tech and the metaverse. Plus, we delve into how Lenovo is making it less complex for customers to harness these technologies.

Switching gears, we take a deep dive into the profound impact of technologies such as workstations, 3D tech, and AR/VR glasses on the architecture and engineering sectors. It's not just about crafting impressive 3D models; these innovations are revolutionizing worker productivity, safety, and even transforming marketing and sales strategies. We also shed light on the concept of digital twins and how companies are leveraging them to optimize operations. 

In the final segment, we grapple with the complex issue of consumer versus enterprise AR VR technology. Vishal shares his insights on how to make these applications more engaging, and how a device-as-a-service strategy can mitigate initial investment risks while offering an upgrade program for the latest technology. We wrap up by considering the potential role of technology in connecting us with loved ones and its contribution to mental health. Come along and glimpse the future through a fresh lens with us!

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:11

Hi, welcome everyone. Welcome to the Future Construct podcast. I am your host, Amy Peck. I am super excited to have one of my good friends on the show today, Vishal Shah, who is the GM of XR and Metaverse at Lenovo. Welcome, Vishal.

Speaker 2 0:26

Hello, amy, good to see you. Thank you for the invite. I was looking forward to be on this podcast for a while, so I'm glad we can make it happen. Always look forward to the podcast.

Speaker 1 0:35

Well, you're a busy person so I'm glad we have time today. So you know, I know a little bit of your history but it would be great to talk about you know, how did you get started? You had a long career in technology and really kind of bringing you know new technology to the forefront, so you've always kind of lived on the cutting edge. But how did that start? Like when you were a kid, did you really like I'm going to do like technology and I'm going to invent new things? Like what was the driver for you?

Speaker 2 1:05

Yeah, I think the driver was definitely the initial television right.

Speaker 2 1:10

Going from like a black and white to a color TV in my home and seeing the power of what it can do, like opening up things in like Technicolor, was like a big improvement.

Speaker 2 1:19

And then watching my first movie in actual 3D in a theater was, like you know, my first sort of drive into this whole 3D experience. Because humans, you know, think in 3D. I mean, we see in 3D, we interact in 3D, but our world is like restricted by 2D screens right now, even you know, 30 years later, right? So to me, it was always the promise of what can you do with 3D technology and being able to watch things in 3D and interact in 3D. And you know, over the last 10 years, I've been fortunate enough to work on digital engines, digital twins, all the way from the Qualcomm Vuforia platform to a theater which was doing 3D glasses way ahead of its time, and then now working at Lenovo, working on AR, vr technology and complete platforms that help, you know, change lives, you know, help increase efficiency and reduce downtime. So it's been a great journey, long journey, but it was always about digital transformation and, you know, having really impact on people's lives.

Speaker 1 2:20

I love it, I love it, I love it. I love thinking about digital twins as well. I mean, do you feel like this moment is the time when all of this now is converging? It's available, the technology, even though, you know, I think in the industry we kind of complain that it's not further along. It is sufficiently advanced to solve significant business problems.

Speaker 2 2:45

Absolutely yeah. Yeah, you know a lot of people talk about the metaverse as like five or 10 years in the future, but what we focus on is the enterprise metaverse in terms of what it can do today and what has it been doing for the last 18 months already, especially with AR VR technologies. When it comes to the enterprise, you know being able to do onboarding, remote assistance, being able to empower the digital worker. You know soft skills training, hard skills training and then converting data into, like I said, digital twins that are being used in by architectural engineering companies for BIM profiles, etc. So that's happening today already and it's a perfect Confluence of technologies that's coming around. First of all, of course, the AR VR glasses are getting smaller, lighter, cheaper for people to wear for 30 minutes or longer. The second thing that's coming around is low latency 5G networks, which are really helping people distribute the content. So now the content, the 5G digital twin, can actually live on the edge and can be put on the glasses, you know, on demand.

Speaker 2 3:45

Third is, of course, ai. Both predictive AI and generic AI are making these glasses a lot smarter, but at the same time, it's really empowering content creators, because when you look at VR content or AR content. The content is obviously the most expensive part of the value chain, right. But now, with Genitive AI, you're now seeing what used to take six months you can now ID it and do it in a month, right. So we're seeing that. You know AI is going to be a big force function for AR, vr and the metaverse. So those are the technologies that are coming together at the right time. It's sort of the perfect storm for this technology to really scale.

Speaker 1 4:23

And you know and some of the work that you're doing at Lenovo, there's a lot of focus on that. You have a brand new device that's just out with VRX. You've had the A3 on the market, so one is more kind of pure play AR glasses, and then VRX has the VR component with Pass Through to kind of get you to that mixed reality. And again, I think the goal is, you know, to be able to have cross-platform, to be able to go from device to a laptop, to an iPad, to a wearable. What's the adoption cycle of that and what are the best ways for companies to start? Really look, where should they plug in?

Speaker 2 5:05

Yeah, yeah. So I think one of the biggest things that has been missing in this industry, right, is the lack of a complete platform. What has been happening in this industry in a Euro veteran here is that people will buy the hardware from somewhere, they'll buy the software for somewhere else and you know the whole system integration, the cloud implementation, the conversion of 2D to 3D will be handled by a third party. So people are throwing things over the wall and hope it, like you know, as it's going to bring it together.

Speaker 2 5:31

What we've tried to do, and you know my strong belief, is that for AR VR to scale, you need to provide end-to-end solutions to the customers and increasingly, customers are demanding that.

Speaker 2 5:42

You know what's the end-to-end solution look like, all the way from hardware, the control of these devices you know MDM light.

Speaker 2 5:48

You know being able to like, control the content, being able to send out the right content at the right time and manage it, and then, of course, bringing a whole ecosystem of open-excel ecosystem of solution providers by vertical that can help these different you know these different industries, right. So we're trying to bring that together at Lenovo, both with AR glasses and VR glasses, and that's why we made a bet on Qualcomm spaces as well, which strives to work over layers like Unity and Unreal, but to provide an SDK that can work across multiple devices. So that's what we strive to do, and the other advantage that Lenovo brings is it's a true pocket-to-cloud company. We own brands like Motorola. We have the largest laptop market share in the world with our Think Brand, and then we have Edge. We are one of the largest Edge and data centers in the world, and now you know focusing heavily on AI as well, right, so we want to make sure that we bring that whole ecosystem together for both the IT and OT elements that are required for this technology to scale.

Speaker 1 6:48

Yeah, and you mentioned Qualcomm. I think the one thing that both Qualcomm and Lenovo have sort of displayed without being an ad for you guys, you know I'm a fan is that you're partnering and really working together, you know, kind of at the architecture level, to make it seamless for other legacy systems for companies to bring this in. And I think you're right. I think that's something we haven't seen. I think everybody's very busy kind of, you know competing with one another and I think this is an example of partnerships and then again with the software providers.

Speaker 2 7:25

Yes, yeah, and making it really easy yeah.

Speaker 2 7:27

Yeah, I think, once again, you know, for Web 3.0, for the metaverse, or what we call the Internet 3D, to succeed. You know, we strongly believe that we are at a fork in the road, right, even the developers and our customers are at a fork. They got to decide whether they want a complete closed ecosystem, like a complete siloed wall garden ecosystem, or do they want to work with a complete open ecosystem, right, like the whole Vintel model. So we have heavily bet, along with Qualcomm, on sort of an open XR open ecosystem, and we are just in the first innings of a very long game here, right. So, and as the technologies change, as the stack changes, there's no vendor lock-in, there's no cloud lock-in, there's no system integration lock-in right, so you have the ability to evolve your technology stack. As this technology evolves, it's going to evolve very, very fast. So that's why, you know, having an open ecosystem that's enterprise-grade, that has the right kind of security, the right kind of privacy, is very important in the space.

Speaker 1 8:26

Yeah, and well, you know that I've been reaching that and that's, of course, music to my ear and I think you know it's. The other interesting thing and I love your take is, you know, I think a lot of companies are, you know, working from this kind of quarter to quarter model and particularly in AEC. It's very difficult to bring new technology in at the field, you know, kind of worker level and the companies that are doing the best are the ones who are talking to their customers. I saw the quote with your colleague, jason McGuigan, who's on your team, who said no, we announced, but then we're listening to customers and we're listening to their specific needs. But how hard is it to enact that kind of workflow change Because the benefit is so high. But it's like, if you know how to do something, you've been doing something for 30 years you know you're out there, you've got your system and it works for you. How do you convince that person to say, look, this is a better way of doing, this is going to make your life easier.

Speaker 2 9:34

Yeah, you know, I was actually just at AWE. I was talking to one of the largest architecture and engineering companies in the world. They use the most sophisticated technologies, the highest compute powers. They use the Lenovo what we call a workstations like workhorses, to create these amazing 3D models of their buildings, their sites that they're going to go work at right. So the whole design process, the thinking process, is now in very sophisticated 3D, but as soon as you go to the floor site, everything is actually physical paper, not even like a laptop, right. So these construction workers, even the chief site officer, you got the blueprints?

Speaker 2 10:09

Yeah, it's actually still working off of both blueprints and they're, like you know, we got to put this on an AR glass, we got to put this on a VR glass, right, you could train them, like you know. Even if someone wants to look at and buy this property in Dubai or in Singapore, right, why can't they just put this on, like you know, sitting where they are? I'm just going to, instead of sending you a manual brochure, I'm going to send you a 3D glasses for like $500 and you take a look at it, you walk through it, see what the, what a balcony looks like, right In the heart of Singapore or in Dubai. So those are the kind of technologies I mean. They have to see the vision. You know. You got to like, show them the vision that there are a lot of folks who are now actually doing proof of concepts. They're actually, you know, making it look like what they want it to be like, right, so that's really helping.

Speaker 2 10:50

And then, and then doing a controlled experiment in terms of what? What is the worker productivity, what is the worker safety? The most important thing is worker safety, right? I mean, when I move to these 3D technologies, having glasses on, like these AR glasses on, you know, being able to just see what the warning is when I'm walking somewhere, or what the digital twin is. Is there a particular heater or something that's overheating, right? Or do I need to do a particular maintenance? Being able to have those anchors virtual anchors in space is very important as well, right? So there's a safety part, there's a whole efficiency part, and then there's a whole marketing and sales part. That can all be enabled using this technology.

Speaker 1 11:26

And even before that you know the training and so that's. I think that that's kind of a story that that needs to be told. It's, you know, especially around digital twin. I feel like digital twin is that kind of build it once and then you deploy it, you know, in sort of multiple business lines. You can train on it, you can sell to it, and they don't all have to be level five digital twins right For it's sort of whatever level for each purpose. And so are there examples that you've seen where a company has started with maybe even an offline digital twin and then kind of built that online capability for level one? I think Unity has a very good, you know, level one to level five grading where level five is like that highest level, like BMW manufacturing, for example, like they are simulating entire manufacturing lines to optimize their business. You don't always need that, depending on what the task is, and it doesn't all have to be built to level five at once. But do you have any examples also of companies that are moving forward in that slow way?

Speaker 2 12:31

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean we're already Lenovo is already working with Aston Martin, for example. We've, you know, anytime you go to a Lenovo conference, we have an Aston Martin car there where you can actually see the entire digital twin. You've got the actual car sitting there and it's an almost level five kind of digital twin of the car that can help you like optimize the leather selections, the steering wheel, the dashboard, what it looks like, and also like help you, you know, manufacture the car as well, right? So I mean we're seeing like significant sophistication in these digital twins and being able to manipulate them, being able to simulate, you know, them, multiple times, whether it's a nuclear reactor, whether it's a construction site, whether it's a wind tunnel for a particular car. So we're seeing, you know, the maturity of what can be done with these, like reach a, like an epic level as we speak. And then now with generative AI, I think it's just getting more and more with the compute power, with that increasing, it's just becoming a lot more compelling as well.

Speaker 1 13:27

All right. Well, you know, I'm gonna now need to get my hands on that Aston Martin and take that first.

Speaker 2 13:31

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 13:32

The real one, not the digital twin. I want the real one. Ha ha, ha, ha ha ha. And so what are some of the technologies I mean even outside Lenovo, because you know you're at these events, you have a really, really strong background in technology. What are some of the evolutions that are just exciting for you that you've seen?

Enterprise AR VR AI Trends

Speaker 2 14:01

Yeah, I mean I'm definitely seeing a lot of focus and R&D dollars being spent on AR VR, as opposed to some of the traditional technologies which are like flattening out, right. I mean there's a demand curve, there's a general demand curve in other areas. That's flattening out, but the R&D and AR VR in optics technologies, in chipsets, in sort of the battery life optimization, being able to create these digital twins using AI models, so that it's instead of like being in a rig with 100 cameras, you can now just have like one or two cameras and you can do a complete 3D avatar on a 3D conference, right. So those kind of technologies at scale are becoming very, very compelling in my view. And then the other thing I was at AWE last month and I really got to see the pivot from consumer to enterprise there as well.

Speaker 2 14:48

In the past everyone was talking to consumers and gaming, but now people understand that the metaverse for it to be here and now and people to be able to monetize it. Enterprise AR VR is what's already there. It's already got the right ROI, it's got the right use cases, it's got the right solution ecosystem, and seeing that was like very refreshing, where people are really talking about doing things now, as opposed to like having this crazy avatars and games and gimmicks which are, I just don't think, from a form factor. People are ready for that yet.

Speaker 1 15:19

Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think that the past will continue to evolve. I do think that's kind of consumer 3D realms, whether we want to call it. I don't even think it's going to end up being called the metaverse. We'll move, but I think they'll both be drivers for each other. I do think that it's important and I'd love to get your take. I know that it's a potentially competitive device, but everyone's talking about the Apple device coming in 2024. But I think it's important for the industry that consumers start to care about the technology, because then they can apply it at work.

Speaker 2 16:01

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, to me it's like you use your smartphone like five times a minute, right. I mean just from looking at the time to a notification to like, okay, how many calories did I burn today? So you've got to create use cases or applications where people are compelled to put on this device three to four times a day, right? Otherwise it's just going to sit in a drawer and never get used, right?

Speaker 2 16:23

So, every worker, how can I use this for safety? Or how can I use this technology to get home early? Right, so that I can do things the right time? If I'm running out of, like a information when I'm providing working on a machine, how can I just get a digital tune of that right on top of it and then being able to, like, go through the manual in the 3D space so I can be hands-free and work around it, right? So those are kind of compelling applications that if you don't have them on your device, I mean, they're bound to fail, right? So you got to make sure that what you're creating has a level of stickiness, has a level of ROI and the level of, like increasing people's return on time investment as well.

Speaker 1 17:05

Yeah, yeah. And I think the other thing that I hear a lot is that we're afraid to invest in these devices because the lifecycle changes, the form factor changes, but it feels a little short-sighted because we change our phones every couple of years and not because the old ones don't work, it's just because the new one is shinier and cooler and those aren't evolving necessarily dramatically.

Speaker 1 17:34

I'd say probably four or five years they start to really dramatically change or improve, but I don't think that that should be a blocker, but it is something we hear about. So what would be the strategy there in terms of implementing this?

Speaker 2 17:50

Yeah, very often we're very siloed and think about technology innovation, but what I like to think about is the business model innovation as well.

Speaker 2 17:59

So what we do at Lenovo is what we call device as a service. We want to make sure that when you do a deployment of 100 plus devices 500,000 devices you're not taking that burden upfront. We make it so that you can actually lease those devices, pay a monthly amount along with the software, so that when the stack changes in about 12 to 18 months, we're there to do an upgrade program for you and move you to the next level of devices and services that you want. So I think it's very important for players in this industry and giving away a secret here is to be flexible with their business models and look at how they can actually lease these devices. Do devices as a service, do upgrade programs with large players that will really de-risk, like you said, some of the initial investment that they need to make and if that changes, they can be there for the next round of innovation as well and could be a benefit because it's OpEx instead of Cat-Back.

Speaker 1 18:52

So everybody goes home happy.

Speaker 1 18:57

Yes, so, relative to AI and the advancements in AI, there's just so much controversy. I look at it in many, many different lanes, but in terms of also the way that companies should start thinking about AI and again, this is not necessarily in your day-to-day but I know it's something that you understand and you look at. There are some blind spots, but there's so many benefits. But what are some of the things they should be looking at? To really kind of shore up, like whether it's their strategy around ethics and guardrails around the deployments and making sure they have clean data and algorithms to the positive impacts and thinking about all right, what's the big picture on how to deploy, because I think everyone again is in those silos like here, here, here here but what's the big picture?

Speaker 2 19:53

Yeah, I think I know AI is the especially generative. Ai is the buzzword of the year, this year, right, but we've been using AI in XR for a very long time, as you know, right, there's the predictive AI around being able to do spatial mapping, being able to like bringing the right content for the worker and learning how a particular worker, what he's good at, what they're not good at, and being able to pipe in the right kind of data from the digital twin, from the edge to the worker. Right, people are already using those AI modules today to like train, to onboard and to help a remote worker right now. And then now, as I mentioned earlier, with generative AI, the applications in terms of being able to have ready chatbots available to these end users, to these workers, in terms of how they can actually help them navigate a tough situation or help them, you know, train them for a tough conversation, hr conversation at work or a feedback session, is something that people are already putting in these AI VR models. Then the whole thing around content generation, right. So I think, as I mentioned earlier, content generation is one of the most expensive parts of a VR deployment or an AR deployment, because you can kind of convert things in 3D, you need sophisticated tools. You know you got to pay these designers who are, you know, pretty expensive and very good at what they do, so but these same designers are now using tools like Mid Journey or Dahli to like really bring down the time in terms of what they, you know how they can imagine, imagine something right, or how they can picture something and then using that and converting that into 3D models. So you were already seeing that form, that being a force function for AR VR.

Speaker 2 21:30

And then, when it comes to ethics, you know I think you know that's something that with every technology iteration, whether it's 5G or cloud, you know there's always things around. You know there's the bad actors that will always be there and we always obviously have to have the guardrails around that. And then the right kind of data, like you said, right, the integrity and the hygiene of the data is super important and that's why I think, having you know, we at Lenovo strongly believe in some of these private models, having some of these LLMs that we optimize for our customers and use internally as well, so that it's sort of your data never leaves and you can actually control the outcomes and make sure that it's not a black box that you're sending this the LLMs into.

Speaker 1 22:13

Yeah, and that makes perfect sense, and we are seeing a lot more of those private LLMs. And then there's processes in place in advance to make sure that both the algorithms and the data are both clean.

Speaker 2 22:26

Yeah, I mean I think of it as the cloud journey, right? Everyone thought that the virtual cloud just put things in the cloud and your life is good. But more and more companies now, like we, did a survey of CEOs and CIOs and they said most of the deployments and investments are gonna be in private clouds going forward and not public clouds, right? So because they wanna keep that data secured, they wanna have the right kind of backups, they wanna have the right kind of control. So I think you're gonna see the initial consumer attraction to go to these public LLMs, which are great. For you know what I wanna trap plan a trip to Dubai for five days, tell me something and you can live with a few errors. But when it comes to creating a digital brain for your company and guiding billion dollar decisions or a marketing program, you wanna make sure that the data has the right kind of hygiene and you can trust it.

Speaker 1 23:14

Yeah, yeah, absolutely All amazingly good advice. And so you know, I wanna ask the last question that I ask everyone, which is you know, if you could, just from a personal standpoint, if you could just project yourself 20, 25 years in the future and you could bring with you any product or service that just makes you know your life Vishal, makes it better, makes you happy, what would it be and what would it do?

Speaker 2 23:41

Oh, great, great question, amy. Definitely you know the quintessential flying and self-driving cars, so I can get more from your time, you know. And then just the ability to be, teleport myself, be in multiple places at the same time, right, with kids and life being so busy, right. Being able to like, or at least have a 3D view of what my kids are doing, the sport they're playing, and being able to be there at the same time would be something quite compelling.

Future Technology and Mental Health

Speaker 1 24:08

I love that. I love that. I think you know it's interesting too. When everyone talks about the future, it's a lot of times it's about connecting with family and being closer to the people you care about, and that, to me, is the key to how we should approach technology.

Speaker 2 24:25

Yeah, and I strongly feel that some of the technologies we are working on today, especially around digital twins and ARVR, are going to go a long way in terms of providing mental health assistance you know, ptsd assistance to our veterans. So I'm hoping that in 20 years from now, like you know, there's going to be a lot of technology burden, technology debt, but there will also be a lot of technology incentives that we get from some of these, what we can do with these technologies.

Speaker 1 24:50

Yeah, no, I agree. I think we are definitely going to get there and I bet it's not even in the 20 years. Yeah absolutely, absolutely Well, Vishal, it's always a pleasure chatting with you. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker 2 25:01

Glad it was my name. Thank you so much, really appreciate it.