Future Construct: Thought Leaders Discuss BIM and Construction Solutions for the AEC Industry
The Future Construct podcast features thought leaders from around the world working on innovative technology solutions for the construction (AEC) industry. This podcast is hosted by Amy Peck, CEO of EndeavorVR, and Mark Oden, CEO of BIM Designs, Inc., and is produced by the team at BIM Designs, Inc. Amy is a recognized thought-leader and speaks globally on the future of VR, AR and emerging technologies including AI, blockchain, robotics and autonomy. Mark leads the growth, strategy and execution of BIM Designs, Inc.; his acute ability to develop and implement strategic processes that scale the company's capabilities, drives efficient service delivery, increases client satisfaction, and builds cross-functional teams. The podcast has already featured industry experts from Fortune 500 companies, venture capital firms, and construction startups. To suggest a guest or to be featured as a guest, visit https://www.bimdesigns.net/futureconstruct.
Future Construct: Thought Leaders Discuss BIM and Construction Solutions for the AEC Industry
From Legos to Leadership: Graham Condit's Journey in Construction Technology
Can childhood hobbies really shape a successful career in construction technology? Join us as we sit down with Graham Condit, Director of Emerging Technology at Skanska USA, who shares his unique journey from building Dungeons and Dragons castles and playing with Legos to leading a cutting-edge construction tech team. Discover how these early creative activities spurred Graham's passion for architecture and engineering, laying the foundation for a career where creativity meets practical problem-solving.
Transitioning from a fascination with architecture to hands-on construction management, Graham recounts the pivotal moments and family influences that guided his career choices. From learning artistic techniques and working with rubberized molds to the inspiring legacy of his electrical engineer grandfather, Graham’s story is a testament to how early experiences and strong mentorship can profoundly impact career trajectories. This episode sheds light on the rewarding shift from theoretical design to the tangible world of construction, where every blueprint becomes a reality.
Looking towards the future, Graham offers an insider's perspective on the evolving role of technology in construction. At Skanska, advanced tools and processes are revolutionizing workflows, with AI and other emerging technologies playing a significant role. Gain insights into Skanska’s strategic approach to tech integration, emphasizing sustainability, diversity, and inclusion. But it doesn’t stop there—Graham also shares his personal passions, from 3D printing to furniture building, and imagines a world where AI enhances both his professional and personal creative projects. This episode is a must-listen for anyone curious about the fusion of personal interests and cutting-edge technology in shaping the future of construction.
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Welcome to the Future Construct podcast, where we explore the latest innovations and trends shaping the construction industry. I'm your guest host, mark Oden, the CEO of BIM Designs Inc. Today we have a very special guest, graham Condit, the Director of Emerging Technology at Skanska, usa. Graham has always had a passion for building and now he's at the forefront of integrating technology into the construction process. We're excited to dive into his journey and insights. Welcome, graham, and thank you for making the time to join me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Graham, your childhood fascination with construction is completely evident and starting from your days in construction, I understand that you were building Dungeons and Dragons castles out of plaster and spending time designing with Legos. Can you tell me more about those early experiences and how they shaped your career path?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean, I guess growing up I've always had a fascination towards making things, and so it kind of took root in, I guess, my parents engaging me in differentnd. They had friends over a lot and they had like fun kind of going through campaigns and doing kind of the the dnd thing. Um, and one of the things I was fascinated about it was scale models that they would use to help kind of uh introduce the space of how you're interacting in this role-playing environment, and so that that kind of like sparked the creativity in me and, like, I've always kind of like gathered back to that as like one of the early things that really interested me in um, like creation and and and making things and and doing things like that. Because, like I've always drawn but never like uh, at that point I hadn't built models and done a lot of things around that space. So that got me into model building, which then sparked my interest into like architecture and engineering and and all that, and it's weird kind of the rabbit holes that you go down to try and kind of find some of those things.
Speaker 2:But, um, I think the thing that fascinated me is like even in the building process of like building these scale models of of castles and going through that process, you start kind of venturing into the construction process, right. And so, like I had this, this set that was like this rubberized mold set, um, that allowed you to pour plaster of Paris into these forms and then build walls and build kind of elements that could make up the castle, and so like, looking back on it now it's like crazy to think, okay, like I had a production cycle going, I was planning out all the different things I needed to kind of build and went through a process of kind of basically constructing while I was kind of designing at the same time like what this structure or kind of environment would look like, and along with that, like engaging in painting and finishes and all the other stuff that you do to kind of make things like that work. And you know, I also had a strong kind of connection into using Lego growing up, had a strong kind of connection into using Lego growing up, and that was something that was like a little bit easier kind of process to get into, although, like Lego is an expensive kind of toy to where it's not like you had as much that you could do so I could control how much of the built environment I could create based off of how many bags of plaster of Paris I could buy and kind of that process.
Speaker 2:But yeah, no, that kind of opened my eyes up towards model making, which, like when I heard about careers, it's like you like back when I was growing up, like you heard about architects, building scale models of buildings and things, and so that kind of pushed me down that path towards engineering and architecture and got me to the point where that's what I kind of was gravitating towards even in high school and architecture and got me to the point where that's what I kind of was gravitating towards even in high school, like our high school program had.
Speaker 2:We had it was called century 21, which was like setting up the future, and they had an engineering drafting environment or a course that that was. That was there and I signed up for that, took those classes and really got even more kind of immersed in the idea of engineering and problem solving and figuring things out. And that's kind of the thing that I love most about something is like being creative and figuring things out and always kind of learning and kind of engaging with people in that process, and so that kind of you know sparked me on my career, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you so much, and I have a million questions, so I'll toss a few your way and then we'll transition, gracefully, to you know, speaking more about architecture and construction management. So you mentioned earlier the D&D thing and I have a cousin that's very much into D&D as well and um, uh, you know, I would love to be a part of that with him and see him, you know, see him in the role play and everything. I've not lived it yet with him. Um, so, you know, can you help me understand what, what would you say the dnd thing is?
Speaker 2:uh, I mean, I I feel it's like, uh, you know, a lot of role play, a lot of like opportunity to kind of um explore creativity beyond kind of your day-to-day like a. A lot of like opportunity to kind of explore creativity beyond kind of your day to day, like a lot, a lot of times you can kind of put on your own kind of persona of what you want to be to to where it gives you flexibility towards creativity and and kind of also working and kind of interact with other people in that space, right. So it's just fun from a standpoint. It's almost like a impromptu kind of acting or kind of working in a space where you're kind of riffing and working off of each other a little bit, and but it's, it is also a game and it's like something that is kind of planned out to to where it's just kind of a fun kind of experience along those lines.
Speaker 1:And how long? How long could a role play or a game last? Is it one night? Some?
Speaker 2:campaigns can last a really long time. It's been a long time, actually, since I've done D and D. Like like my childhood like we're talking like 30 years ago, is when when this I was like more into D and D and everything. But yeah, I mean, I've had things where it's even in high school. I did a little D and D back then and we would have it go on basically on the weekends and so we'd have multiple weekends that were still kind of going on the same campaign and it could take months to get some of the stuff done, depending on how big like the dungeon master set up their, their kind of quest or this the kind of experience that you were going on.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it can be a kind of a long event for sure that's awesome and so and so when you're getting into the, the model building or the creation of the physical models, right that the castles are objects, so is it that those would be? You know those could often be store bought, but instead you were working on the physical manifestation of them yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think there were kind of sets and things that you could get that were along those lines.
Speaker 2:I think I took it as a level of inspiration of, like you know, looking at something like that, how could you modularize and make certain things work for kind of an environment that is always kind of changing too, like tower sections and different villages and all sorts of stuff that you can can buy, and kind of modularize and kind of actually build kind of this experiential kind of thing that you can put in front of a group so that everyone can kind of visualize the experience?
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, I was kind of playing around with that, like trying to build my own things back then and and it also kind of sparked things beyond just using it. In dnt, like I I built like a cathedral out of out of plaster in paris. I, like you know, did some large castles and things that like would be kind of impractical to actually use from a standpoint of actually doing a campaign or something like that. But, um, it allowed me to kind of test out kind of the experience of building my own models and kind of like taking a vision through um, kind of a final kind of the experience of building my own models and kind of like taking a vision through um kind of a final kind of presentation of that.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's brilliant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it sounds incredible and it obviously, you know, it pulls you into that architecture component and probably, you know, put you ahead of the curve when you were in your class with your classmates and architecture class so, um, so when you're, when you're um, you know.
Speaker 2:One more kind of detailed question on this topic is is when you're working with the plaster, are you? Are you like scraping it away to form what you want to form, or using existing molds or both combination? Yeah, they're actually rubberized molds and so you would basically build all these panels and most of them are, like you know, masonry or roof panels or things like that, and they had like teeth that could kind of fit together, um, and so like, yeah, you could build all that. Some of them had doorways built in them or windows and other kind of features.
Speaker 2:In fact, like I took like the old remember, uh, back in the 90s there there weren't like projector displays of like computers computers weren't't a big thing when I was in school but we had the overhead projectors that had the plastic sheets that you'd put in to project up and the teachers would write on the plastic. And in that process, like I took some of those and then drew stained glass windows and drew things in them to then like paste on the inside of the, the opening for a window, to really kind of create that effect of having like glass or whatever. So it's like you start getting kind of creative things like that that would build into that to build more realism. And then you get into painting and dry brushing and all the other fun stuff to kind of make it look more and more real.
Speaker 1:That's so much fun. So how did you so, how did that directly translate over to the world of architecture and how did that stage you and prepare you for that world?
Speaker 2:you know, do all the projected lines and do all the things that you need to do to kind of relate different elevations and plans and views and stuff together. And that's where I got exposed to like AutoCAD and tools like that. So super early in my kind of educational career, in getting into like architecture and engineering, and in college, um, you start getting grounded a little bit on the reality of like how much model building and all that really happens. Like you don't really do a whole lot of that, and so like I started thinking like and this is where I made a pivot from architecture into construction is like after my first year of kind of really realizing, um, you know, the the actual makers and the builders of the actual tactile elements are actually the contractors, and so that's like when I made my shift from being an architecture student and going into construction management as the career or the degree that I was kind of going after after that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fantastic. Thanks for helping, yeah, thanks for helping me understand that transition. So so, yeah, I want to. How did the architecture start into college, impact your you know, your future career and you know how are you combining both of those concepts? You know, in some way, you know, maybe it's not official or not, but you probably got some level of a minor in architecture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I think I sympathize, I guess, a little bit more, or empathize more with how, the challenge of creating things right and being able to, you know, meet certain criteria, and the design aspect of it, based off of, like, how hard of a job that is. And it's like I've always told myself, like, after kind of making that transition, you know it's it's right that you made that move, cause I think people have told me I'm too practical to be an architect, I guess. So, like the, the factor of me like looking at things and and really scaling back some of my vision, based off of, um, well, does that really work? Um, and so, like, I guess, from an idea, uh, it's probably good I didn't get into architecture any further than I did, because, uh, yeah, I, I'm, I'm very much into like, uh, like, uh, making things work well for, for, uh, for how we build things.
Speaker 1:So the engineer bug almost bit you as well.
Speaker 2:Huh, yeah the engineer bug definitely took over. I probably am more engineer-driven than architecture-driven. And it actually runs in the family a little bit too. My grandfather was an electrical engineer.
Speaker 1:Oh fantastic, he probably had some influence. What's?
Speaker 2:that work on um, he actually worked for uh sparling for a long time. Um, he had worked on things like uh hydroelectric dams and other kind of uh technologies. In fact, like he shared with me like a book, um, from when he was getting his electrical engineering degree I'll remember this where it said and someday images will be able to be broadcast wirelessly. It's like in books, kind of thinking, and, like you know, today it's like everyone's kind of engaging in those images and it's just amazing to me, like you see, how much technology has changed from like his generation to kind of now and it, yeah, it's a, it's a. It's something that you could probably talk about for a long time on this podcast or whatever.
Speaker 1:So yeah, for sure. And um, uh, you know, just on the small topic of hydroelectric dams, I'm just not knowing much about them. I'm just so personally in awe in the longevity of those devices, those dams. So, yeah, that's just something that's always been impressive to me, and it's cool to hear that your grandfather worked on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. No, it definitely took a lot from from those experiences and and we I remember as a child going in and visiting a lot of dams too. So I guess I never really thought of why we're we're going in like doing tours, but maybe, maybe that had a factor in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it sounds like there was a. There was a pretty direct influence there, awesome. Well, this has been a great conversation so far. Um really loved hearing about your, your background and and how, how you know dnd, and and and legos and creativity as a kid pulled you into you know the architecture background and that pulled you into construction management and then learning more about your grandfather. Um really exciting and um look forward to continuing the conversation, especially learning more about the evolution of your career and what emerging technologies are piquing your interest for the future. And before we continue that conversation, Graham, let's take a moment to hear from our sponsors, who helped make this podcast possible. Stay with us.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for tuning in. This is an episode of the Future Construct podcast. Let's take a moment to hear from our sponsors.
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Speaker 1:Welcome back to the Future Construct podcast. Prior to the break, graham shared his early childhood hobbies and how that influenced his direction into architecture and construction. I'm now excited to shift gears to his current role at Skanska and look into the future of technology with Graham. So, graham, you've had a remarkable journey at Skanska, progressing from engineering roles to your current position as Director of Emerging Technology. What factors motivated your transition and how has your role evolved over the years?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I guess even before I came to Skanska, I had spent a lot of time in the project management, project engineering space and like learned in operations kind of the needs of how teams kind of operate and how to deliver projects. And I think one thing that I guess tying back to some of my experiences, to, like my my dad had always been kind of dabbling in computers and working for in technology, where his occupation and so like I, always had kind of this idea of like can we make things better? And so I think one of the things that like Skanska, just like all the companies I've worked with, there's like opportunities towards really trying to present alternate ideas of how to do something and trying to figure out how to do it better and looking for value in that effort. And so that's kind of what pushed me into technology and pushed me into, you know, different methodologies to, to, to help us build projects more efficiently. Some of the first projects that I worked on, like before BIM, you spent time modeling, figuring out the buildings, before you had the tools that you have now. And I think what you see is like this evolution the industry slowly kind of trends into a space to be able to kind of manage some of those new methodologies and things and so like. Through my career I've seen it go from you know, more simplified tools to like what we see now, tools tailored to kind of you know, help you communicate, design through BIM and the integration of how teams can work and so like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like Skanska was a great opportunity for me because I had previously worked for the company that was just a regional contractor, limited in what I could kind of really impact from not only kind of the types of projects and efforts that were going on to the kind of scale of the different kinds of projects that you'd have.
Speaker 2:And the beautiful thing about working for a company like Skanska is that, as a national and even a global company, there are so many other people you can collaborate, work with and kind of start looking through a different lens of how you can approach problems or issues in the industry and really try and solve those and not only look at them through the lens of things that are challenging for the industry, but also looking towards the other things that kind of impact the environment that we're in, whether it's like sustainability, diversity, inclusion, like things that are going to really, you know, resonate not only with the building environment that you're working in but also with the community that you're around, and the beautiful thing about like how Skanska is is that, yeah, that's the space that they kind of hone into right, and those like-minded kind of perspectives really help create a good culture for you to collaborate and figure out better approaches on how you can build.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks for sharing that, Graham. One of the things you mentioned is a lot of the benefits of working with a very large organization like Skanska, and what I really appreciate about large organizations like Skanska and what I really appreciate about large organizations like Skanska is the access to subject matter experts and the ability to tap into a lot of different knowledge sets. I've had a number of conversations about that recently and I'm just so impressed with companies like Skanska that are constantly making sure that the right subject matter expert is available to the right project.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean going back to the role that, like I have in Sk, easier to kind of direct teams towards the answer that they're looking for quicker. And yeah, it's a great network to kind of get involved with because you learn constantly and everyone's got great ideas and different perspectives and that always helps.
Speaker 1:So, um. So how did your role, um, you know, uh, evolve into the role that you're in today at Skanska?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, like I had previously been in a role where I'm like uh in, uh, like you know, project management, all that I was using tools that were getting me into um, uh, bim and vdc practices and everything, and then, like, for a long time, the industry is focused around bim and vdc as being kind of the hub for the spokes of technology that kind of come out from there, and so that got me kind of engaged in a bunch of other kind of technologies, whether it be wearables, robotics, drones, other kind of content that really interacts with that same kind of ecosystem, and kind of evolve into the role that I'm in right now, where making sure that there's adequate representation for our teams or adequate support for our teams. But yeah, it's been a fun adventure getting into that role. I think you have to be flexible and knowledgeable and kind of engaged in that space to do that.
Speaker 1:So, being so embedded into the process, can you help me understand Skanska's approach to integrating technology into its projects and your role in that as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we've got a very value-based approach, like we're looking at technologies as making sure that to get them successfully executed, as making sure that to get them successfully executed, we don't want technologies to kind of fall because the team wasn't prepped to do it or weren't kind of engaged in the process. So we got to make sure that the team is right. We got to make sure that the support is there, like from a documentation and IT and all of the other kind of facets that kind of tie into it. We've also got like and I think you've talked to Danielle, but like a tech enablement process to kind of carry that technology through a process of comparing it against other technologies and really kind of you know, pilot and understand what that looks like. And so, yeah, our process of dealing with that is connecting those teams together, recording the information from that process and really then advocating and sharing that. And sometimes technologies don't work and we've got to be frank about kind of you know, identifying that and maybe revisiting it in the future identifying that and maybe revisiting it in the future. But we need to make sure that the teams aren't stuck in a situation where project job sites get busy.
Speaker 2:I've been on project job sites for a long time in my career and the focus is always building the building and so sometimes if the focus is trending away from the technology, that may make the technology fail and so we need to make sure that we have those conversations. So then we're enabling those teams, so that doesn't happen, to support them when they can't support those activities and so making sure that we have an eye on that and that we've got kind of a team of people that kind of can interact with that kind of a team of people that kind of can interact with that. We basically have a setup where that SME kind of environment we have them set up also as kind of a concierge network, so a group of people that kind of work with project teams to kind of help enable technologies on projects and so that allows kind of this greater kind of space that allows that connection to happen.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. You mentioned Danielle earlier, so I was fortunate to be on a panel with her at GeoWeek earlier this year and she talked a little bit about the process that, as Ganska does decide, if you know, technology should move forward with the investment or the integration. Are you able to speak a little bit about that process?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think she's probably the better person to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no problem, see, this is when we look and we just transition out to a different question. No problem, cool. I also didn't mean to put you so much on the spot. I knew that I wish I was recalling what she had a name to that process, so I was. I was hoping yeah, it's a tech enablement process. Oh, is it? Yeah, okay, cool, cool. So you are familiar with that. Okay, I'm familiar.
Speaker 2:But like I think that's another thing Like, if you want to talk to like what we're doing, like we all have different focuses and my focus is more on BIM VDC. Also, I've worked a bit in pre-con and planning, so that's an area that I support our pre-con planning teams. So, yeah, it's like we can't. We can't do everything, I guess, is the thing.
Speaker 1:So Cool, no, that's, that's where the SMEs come into play. Well, fantastic. So what we'll do is just for edit notes when Graham wrapped up and right before I started talking about you know that next thing, we'll just sort of cut that out and transition to the next engagement. Cool, okay, so we'll move to. With emerging technologies continuously reshaping the construction industry, what upcoming advancement are you most excited about? And then, how do you envision them impacting project workflows? Does that sound fun?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that sounds fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, cool, okay, so we'll come back in five, four, three, two, one Fantastic, Graham, thank you so much for sharing how Skanska approaches integrating technology. I'd like to step outside of the fold here and look a little bit more at emerging technologies around the world. So they're constantly reshaping the construction industry and the world itself. So what upcoming advancements are you most excited about and how do you envision them impacting project workflows?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's hard to kind of narrow in on just one, but I'll try.
Speaker 2:Obviously there's a lot of focus, even beyond the construction industry, around AI.
Speaker 2:I think the thing that I find kind of fascinating about something like that is like we're not like short of a lot of information in construction, and using AI to help boil that information down or take like you know, taking advantage like large language models and things like that to really be able to kind of hone in on things is amazing.
Speaker 2:Like I feel like that's like gonna, you know, the more this evolves and the more that the kind of engineering behind it really kind of grows, like we're seeing tremendous value in that and like thinking like, if we're getting to a future state where I'm trying to kind of like selfishly look at, look at some of the space that I engage in, which is like BIM and VDC, can we use AI to help drive the information quality that's in the model?
Speaker 2:Are we able to kind of make it easier to interact with the model and make it something more user-friendly for people that aren't maybe technically focused around that space? That's where I see a lot of potential in how we can kind of interact and being able to query everything from our disconnected environments of like scheduling and plans and all the documentation for changes and the costing information and all this stuff. There's so many different places you can go for it and that information is not always as connected as it could potentially be. But having an engine that can go out and find that and be able to connect that stuff together for you, I see there's a lot of opportunity in that space, I guess, and really could empower our teams to do better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I completely agree with you in terms of the. You know you saying not short of data right, the construction industry not being short of data, and I'm super excited to see what gets distilled there and how that becomes. You know, much easier to digest information so that decisions could be made faster, lives saved, money saved, increased safety on the job site. I'm very excited about all the possibilities that exist, just from the concept of how do we analyze this in super rapid time and allow for those real-time decisions or even suggestions of decisions. Yeah, very exciting. So, personal note, before we head to the last question of the podcast we talked about your hobbies, maybe 30 years ago, and how those influenced your career. Tell me a little bit about where you are today and your hobbies and interests and family life and your hobbies and interests and family life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so now I've got a daughter who's in high school and so and I think one of the things when I was growing up that I didn't talk about at all, but, like our family, like growing up in the Northwest, there's a strong like football for for us, but soccer to most Americans there's like that kind of presence in in people's lives, and so like I've I've always kind of been like a Sounders fan Like so like I remember like there's pictures of me when I was little with my parents going to like old NASL soccer games with my parents.
Speaker 2:But we're still huge soccer fans. We go to all the games that we can go to as season ticket holders and so our family and even my mom and sister share tickets with us. But that's one of our big hobbies. It's a good escape from kind of the realities of, like you know, a construction kind of career. That's like demanding, like there's a lot of time you spend working. So it's good to have kind of those distractions that happen and gives you time to connect back with your family and focus on other things. And sometimes those can be frustrating when they don't score or they don't do what you're hoping them to do, but it's a fun distraction.
Speaker 1:Well, cool, well, to come to close and always ending with this final question of our show and a tradition of Future Construct, if you could project yourself out 25 years and wanted to have any device or technology that would benefit you personally, what would it be and what would it do?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean this is another really hard question. But knowing, just like, with the way my joints are, like I wrote in college, so my joints are starting to feel it now and going through that effort, so I'm imagining 25 years from now I'm going to probably be even, like, in less great shape. So I really like one of the things that I really is a kind of a passion of mine is making stuff. I have 3D printers and I carve and I and I build furniture and I do all sorts of things and I draw and I, you know, laser cut things and I just like love to make stuff. That you know.
Speaker 2:Knowing that I will probably be less mobile and less kind of active when I get older is like, you know, if AI is really kind of trending down that path of really helping people, kind of enable things, well, who's to say you can't have your own personal Jarvis like from Iron man? Right, have someone, something that you can interact with, talk with and basically have it. Do the big lift, Like I mean you see it, with large language models now being able to kind of take in stuff through like Copilot and actually code something for you, Well, who's to say in the future is like you just tell it to do something and like you don't have to know Revit anymore, it can model the building for you. But yeah, having something like that, where there's, like this, digital assistant that really is an assistant and not just someone that will say you know, I found this on a web page.
Speaker 1:Right, right. Help you in the co-creation of the making that you want to make.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fantastic. Well, an amazing conversation. Graham, I really loved speaking with you today. Thank you so much for sharing your journey and insights into the intersection of construction and technology. Thank you for everything you do as the director of emerging technology at Skanska and to our listeners. Stay tuned for a more captivating discussion on future, future construct podcasts. Until next time, thank you all. Thank you all. Yeah, thank you.
