Krista Kim

Ever wondered how a traditional painter transitions into a trailblazer in digital art? Join us as we chat with Krista Kim, an internationally renowned digital artist, who recounts her incredible journey from the serene Roenji Temple Garden in Kyoto to pioneering digital Zen experiences. Krista reveals the paradigm shift she observed in 2012 that led her to abandon traditional mediums in favor of exploring light and color through digital art. Learn how her work, infused with meditative and healing qualities, is dedicated to serving humanity and future generations.

We'll also discuss the vital role creativity plays in embracing emerging technologies, especially AI. Krista shares her thoughts on the shortcomings of current educational systems that stifle innovation by funneling students into conventional corporate roles. She champions the transformative potential of AI in accelerating learning and enhancing artistic expression. We examine how industries, notably architecture and engineering, can innovate through collaboration with creative minds, comparing the innovation strategies of tech giants like Meta and Apple.

Finally, discover the revolutionary potential of the Metaverse, NFTs, AI, and blockchain identity in fostering human well-being and secure personal identities. Krista's Mars House, a virtual Zen space born during the COVID-19 lockdowns, exemplifies the healing possibilities of digital environments. We explore the future of personal avatars connected to the blockchain, preserving our legacy for future generations and drawing wisdom from past generations to shape a better future. Join us for an inspiring conversation that bridges art, technology, and human connection.

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Chapters

• 0:19 Art, Technology, and the Future
• 13:15 Innovation Through Collaboration
• 22:24 Future of Metaverse and NFTs
• 33:30 Future of AI and Blockchain Identity
• 40:42 Preserving Family Legacy Through Technology

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:19

Hi everyone. Welcome to the Future Construct podcast. I am your host, Amy Peck, and this is the new series that we're doing with our Futurist series, and our guest today is Krista Kim, who is pretty much remarkable in every way. She's a celebrated international digital artist. She is founder of the Techism Movement, creator of Mars House and co-founder of Xero Studio. Welcome, Krista.

Speaker 2: 0:50

Thank you, Amy. And Amy is an advisor to Xero Studio as well, might I mention?

Speaker 1: 0:55

Indeed, indeed, indeed, and the reason being that when I first met you, I was absolutely blown away by just the breadth with which you sort of approach not only your art but just life and humanity. And that's really what we want to tackle with this Futurism series, and it's not just being aspirational, it's really about how do we fundamentally use technology to change outcomes, change our lives, solve some of the challenges that we're facing. And so, before we kind of dive into the really nitty-gritty, I'd love for you to just kind of talk a little bit about your history how did you come to be a digital artist? And then we'll get into all of your accomplishments.

Speaker 2: 1:51

Well, digital art I started in 2012. I was painting. Basically, I was practicing abstract painting. Basically, I was practicing abstract painting. I was very much influenced by Japanese abstract painting, modern style painting using traditional pigments, a technique that I learned in Tokyo when I lived in Japan between 2005 to 2008. But when I landed in Singapore in 2010, I really started painting in acrylics and oils, and it was in 2012 when I decided to leave painting altogether and pursue digital, because I was enrolled in the Masters of Fine Art program at La Salle College of the Arts and when I was thinking about you know how much I was using this thing and not writing even. I wasn't even writing notes anymore. I was note-taking in my phone.

Speaker 2: 2:44

That's when I knew there was a major paradigm shift in the world where everything's going to become digital. So what's the point in creating art that is based on, you know, the medium of painting, when I should really be exploring light and color, as you can see in in my background? That's you know digital, that you can see the screen, cause I'm really fascinated by the physiological effects of looking at a screen. It's all light and stuff. You know messages and that's shining into your retina. But how can I use that as an art medium to create a sublime experience? And that was my thesis for for art school.

Speaker 1: 3:21

Well, I, you know, I didn't know that you had lived in Japan. We were there at the same time, so we're going to have to talk about that I used to live near Nishiyazabu Crossing.

Speaker 2: 3:31

I was in Akasaka Ichome beside Okura Hotel.

Speaker 1: 3:34

Oh, wow, so we must be. I'm sure we'll talk about that. Lexington Queen, you know the whole. Yeah, we'll have to chat offline about that. Very cool, so you know, actually. So even just watching your background, it is incredibly soothing and that seems to be one of the through lines, I think, in the art that I've seen of your work. There's just something very and I forget the quote that's on your website about the like, something about creating a sort of a Zen experience, but it is yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:14

You got it.

Speaker 1: 4:15

So you know how does all of this mesh with your vision for the future.

Speaker 2: 4:22

Yeah, oh my gosh. Thank you. It's a great question. You know, my artistic epiphany came in Japan. Actually is a very formative period of my life as a human being, as an artist, and it was in Kyoto. Kyoto, for me, was so impactful, it actually was the place where I had my aha moment as an artist. It was at the Roenji Temple Garden. I don't know if you've been there, but it's one of the most sacred Zen gardens in Japan, and when you go there, you sit in front of the garden and you realize that your mind becomes automatically immersed in a Zen experience. And then I thought, oh my gosh, after an hour or two of meditating in the space I didn't want to leave right, I discovered that it was the Zen monks, over a thousand years ago, who created this immersive experience out of a garden. And that's when I discovered that art can create a meditative experience in the viewer, and therefore it is a service to humanity, to future generations. Experience in the viewer, and therefore it is a service to humanity, to future generations, to the future of civilization itself.

Speaker 2: 5:30

I was so inspired by that concept that when I started to really delve into what kind of artist I wanted to be, during my master's degree program. That's when I realized I wanted to create a digital Zen experience, that I want to really pursue the sublime, the healing, the same Zen beautiful experience that I had at the Zen garden in the digital realm. So this is, in fact, isn't a good example of a digital garden, a Zen garden, if you will. That's the digital reinterpretation of what I had experienced in Kyoto. And so, and when you fast forward, though, when you're when, when now, whatever medium I'm doing very interdisciplinary, whether it's the metaverse or whatever medium I I I encounter or I want to work with, that is the fundamental core of everything that I do. So that's it's it's about, it's a blessing that I was there at the same time as you.

Speaker 1: 6:22

I love that. I love that. Hold on, I have to. I'm going to pause. I just inhaled some sort of floating dust situation. Let me drink this, okay, good, good, yeah, let's take a quick sip. We're going to cut away to you anyway during that whole situation. That is so funny that we were there at the same time.

Speaker 1: 6:45

That's amazing, okay six volumes yes, yes, all right, so let me do this for jamil and so, but there's a, there's a, there's a real.

Speaker 1: 6:59

So there's the Zen quality, but there's I mean, I guess let me speak to the experience I have when I, when I have experienced your artwork there's an architectural component, like the NFTs that you shared with everyone, which I treasure over over the holidays. There's the Zen zen component, but there's an, there's an intellect and there's a. You know, there's a vision that is more uh, I don't even know how, what the quite, quite the word is. I think we think of zen garden, we think, oh, it's just all kind of flowery and meditative, but there's like this very powerful intellectual, visceral vision that is powering all of this and I think it's why it's so touching for people. And again, I you know, do you find that the time now is really ripe for this convergence of, and it's, mental wellness? Right, art and mental wellness now, I think are inextricably aligned, and then this vision of using art and technology to solve problems, I think also are connected.

Speaker 2: 8:13

I love that question, amy, and thank you so much for the compliment. I really do approach my practice as a philosophy and you know my background is in political science. That's what I studied at university, so I learned a lot from reading. You know political philosophy. You know and also like how is it that these ideas that were shared, you know pen on paper the pen is mightier than the sword. How did these ideas shift the world and the way people think and therefore change the world, like democracy itself, voltaire, diderot, the French Revolution that actually led to the formation of America, and democracy, and so all of these sort of like incredible seismic shifts throughout history, I learned a lot from, and so, when I approached my art and I looked at the current state of the world with, especially with the technological disruption, you know where social media back then in 2012, when I was really thinking about this, you know it really became the dominant new communication medium and you know the medium is the message right? I'm very much a student of Marshall McLuhan, who I'm a big fan of. I really love his work Understanding Media. The Medium is a Message. I just feel.

Speaker 2: 9:35

I felt like, hey, if we're moving on from TV media, electronic media, into the internet age, into the information age and now into the age of acceleration and AI and blockchain. What are those changes and paradigm shifts going to bring to our society and how can I impart, you know, a vision for the future of humanity in this new paradigm? So I really wanted to contribute in a way that really keeps humanity at the core and the ethos of a philosophy of how we pursue the advancement of technology, and that's why I wrote the Tech is a Manifesto in 2014, because I saw the silo of art, the silo of technology. You know completely different worlds and yet these two worlds are pushing culture forward, and it was so. It was very schizophrenic, right?

Speaker 2: 10:33

So I felt that there needs to be a bridge, that artists have to get out of the classical, you know, paradigm of creating art. You know the way that we're taught in school and I went through the school system, so I know that there was this hesitancy to pursue the new. You know, as a medium, that a lot of people weren't interested in digital art at all. In fact, it was still it still is very outlier to this day and so I felt that art was not really communicating the zeitgeist and I felt that artists need to do that. Artists need to ring an alarm if there are any human rights issues that are being violated. Artists need to create the tech that is humane, to collaborate, co-create, have a dialogue with the tech world, have a dialogue with businessmen and have a seat at the table really to be valuable in terms of our input in making the tech human, making it humane, so we're not alienating people with the technology.

Speaker 1: 12:01

So there, and it's funny, I'm so transfixed by your background because it just is evocative of this idea of like volumetric thinking right and taking, connecting disparate ideas and being fluid and being present. And we talk so much about STEM, stem, stem. You mentioned education, stem. So I fundamentally do not believe it's STEM education. I think it's STEAM. And if we forget that, art on two paths? One is that we are, as humans, able to create something from nothing, which, yes, we can train AI to do that, but there is an organic element to the way that humans do it that is fundamentally different. And then the second piece is that kind of, you know, practical element of being able to see around the corners and exercising the artistic part of our minds, I think, allows us to do that and yet, ironically, through the school system, those are the programs that are under fire. How do we move past that and convince the world that this is important?

Speaker 2: 13:07

AI is so fascinating. And what I love about you, amy, is that you truly are a visionary yourself. I mean, you are very creative and I love how you're truly right at the bleeding edge and you get it and you're fearless, creative. And I love how you're truly right at the bleeding edge and you get it and you're fearless. And I believe that fearlessness comes from, yes, the creativity of your mind, that you know how to create something new out of nothing. So you're not looking at a new technology as something that is scary, that brings instability and you know people don't like instability, but you and I are the types of people that like disruption, that welcome it and can create beauty out of it. Right, the better systems out of it. And that's the thing.

Speaker 2: 13:50

Most people in the world are not creative. Most people in the world are fed through a school system that does not support a creative mind, but rather supports you to be an employee for a company, to listen and integrate into a hierarchical corporate system, which is fine. It's been working for a long time, but these are very disruptive times times, and I think the school system is where it has to start, where we are actually teaching children to be unique and expressive and creative, and harness AI and learn how to be prompting engineers, learn how to tap into their natural talents and passions, and how can you use AI to really showcase that, to make that a powerful production medium of what you want to see, right? I just think that AI is so interesting and it is so exciting, but I'm definitely for it because I can see how incredible ideas can spread faster and that how production can be faster and, if anything, it's going to eliminate the need for, you know, decorative pieces created by people. I think that anyone can create beautiful things now with AI.

Speaker 2: 15:19

But if you really want to be an artist, as we have spoken about before, it's about the philosophy and the ideas and where you come from, and if that's unique and if people resonate with that, then you have an audience and then you have art right that lives on for the rest of humanity and into the future. Ai is very, very exciting and we should not disparage AI. We should not tell our kids to be fearful of it. In fact, I'm telling my kids hey, man, as soon as I learned about ChachiPT on my kids, here's ChachiPT4. Learn how to use it, be smarter, study better, learn more faster, get more done and, hey, you have more free time to pursue and think about what you love to do, right? I mean, what better manner is there for kids to learn than to use it as a tool to accelerate who they are, how they learn, how they form Right?

Speaker 1: 16:22

It's so true, and I think you know we also can't actually identify the influences we have, you know. So artists are ingesting the world as well, just in the same way that we're feeding AI data and inputs and inputs. We do that as well. I'm all for. You know, we can solve the digital asset management piece and you know what was the provenance of this. You know this and that piece of art. But I agree with you, I think artists are. They take the tools that we democratize and they elevate them.

Speaker 1: 17:03

I mean, everyone now is a photographer. They have advanced filters, they have the best cameras in the world and they can take amazing photographs, but there are still photographers out there taking amazing and really pushing the boundaries of what photography is. And if you see an amazing photograph that tells a story that touches you, is that, you know, somehow different from this new realm of art? No, it still touches you from within and I think this is this is leading me into, you know, my question, which, which I think will be more relative to our, you know, more relevant to our existing audiences.

Speaker 1: 17:43

We have a lot of business, people and AEC architecture engineering and and what am I? People and AEC architecture engineering and what am I doing? Aec let's do that one again. And our audience is very focused on business and the AEC industry architecture, engineering and construction and I'm sure they're listening saying what does this have to do with me? And I think the way also you talk about business is that you have, you know, you're using art in in an application, right You're? You're moving into this web three realm, you're moving into this 3d realm. What are some of the ways that you know people and companies can start to think about innovation? Because it's artists that are the key to unlocking this. I believe.

Speaker 2: 18:27

Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think that the creativity aspect is key and collaboration is definitely going to be an incredible bonus and it's going to add strength to your brand, strength to your products. If you look at how Facebook changed to meta and how they approached the metaverse without collaborating in a meaningful way with the creative community, like they basically were using, applying the same you know business model of trying to acquire IP and you know, and really controlling it when really it should be about collaboration, so that that's how you can really create the most interesting and meaningful new work and new ideas. I think that if only they had collaborated more and if they did a better job in understanding that culture, then they would have been much more successful in creating beautiful, compelling spaces. Because I think that in a company right now, there's so much focus on, like, marketing and strategy and let's get the product out there, product development what about the actual human connection and the beauty of your products and the beauty of what your services are? I mean, there's something there that art can actually impart and I completely agree with you and I think meta is a very good example of that versus Apple. I mean the way that Apple approaches their design ethos and everything is like an artist, and that's why I really like look at Apple. I'm like really fascinated and amazed. But you know what's really interesting about Apple, too.

Speaker 2: 20:05

When I spoke with James Higa, who was the number two of products under Steve Jobs, we spoke about the Roengi Temple Garden, right, and you know we're he's actually I adore this man, and and when we spoke about it, you know I'm working. I'm basically working on my MacBook Pro, or I love my MacBook. I use Mac all the time and I don't know why I have this amazing fascination with the products. Everybody loves their Mac. It's like a cult, right. And when I talked about Roe and G Temple Garden, you know what he told me. He said oh, my goodness, like I would go to Roe and G Temple Garden on many occasions, and you know Steve has been there as well and we would actually discuss how can we impart this experience in Apple products.

Speaker 1: 20:52

I love that.

Speaker 2: 20:53

Right. So that's an artist mind, and if you can apply that to anything, any company, any industry, it will totally transform that product into something that's beloved.

Speaker 1: 21:06

Yeah, I think you're right and I think you know I hadn't really drawn that connection and that makes total sense. And the challenge I have with companies is that is and you touched on it it's everything is this economics first, and we are at the precipice of really being able to unlock completely different economic models, different ways of engaging. The jobs of the future, I think, are all going to have some art-related basis or craftsmanship or mindset, and if we can start to weave these artistic endeavors and these creative endeavors into everything we do If you look at healthcare or sort of post-pandemic, we saw how much the digital landscape was both a hindrance and a help, and so how do we take those learnings and move forward? But that can be, I believe can be really infused into sort of the products and services of the future. But I'd love to also talk about just some of the other work that you're doing and Mars House and what you're doing with Zero Studio. You're doing so many fascinating I mean so many amazing projects.

Speaker 2: 22:17

Thank you. Well, you know, first of all, you know everything I'm doing with Metaverse. I really want the Metaverse and these powerful technologies, which are only going to get more and more accelerated, more and more powerful and more and more ubiquitous. I want these technologies to, first and foremost, serve humanity and make us healthy, healthier, right and be good for us, because I think Web 2.0 has really proven, because of our mental health crisis that we're actually experiencing globally, social media has a lot to do with that, and I witnessed this and I knew that in 2014, that if I'm experiencing these you know yicky feelings, fomo and anxiety, and you know this narcissism on social media platforms then you know it's, that's universal, and billions of people around the world are feeling that too, and there will be a crisis and, lo and behold, here we are. So how can we make a change? How can the new technology that we're introducing into the world actually make us better and solve those problems that were created from web two, including loneliness, which is a huge epidemic, and I mean it's universal. Let's start from square one. Let's create spaces of healing and bring people together, and I think those are two things that we need desperately right now.

Speaker 2: 23:42

So, mars House I created during the height of the COVID crisis, and it was in response to the lockdowns, and it was me and my two kids under lockdown. I mean, that lasted for a year and a half. Right, it was insane, wasn't it? And I really wanted to create a space that was zen of the 21st century, a house that integrates my gradient, meditative artwork into the architecture. And that's what Mars House became, and so I was so proud of this project. It was such a passion project of mine, and I never used Unreal Engine 4 before. It was my first introduction into creating 3D spatial spaces architecture, but I was really inspired to do it, and so I designed the house, designed the furniture, installed my work, and it was such an incredible experience. Then I parked it because what I really? I didn't know what it was going to be, what it would become.

Speaker 2: 24:36

I didn't know that it would become an NFT until December of 2020, when I discovered Bitcoin and Ethereum and I was doing some research on blockchain art on the blockchain, and then NFTs popped up. And I was doing some research on blockchain art on the blockchain, and then NFTs popped up and I was like whoa and I went down that rabbit hole. And then I ended up signing up for super rare and I was accepted artist in February, and that was the time when they were just onboarding artists because they had upgraded their platform platform. And then in March, after a month of studying the NFT market, studying NFTs and art in general, I thought, wow, these platforms are very early and I knew that the potential of NFTs and going into the future would be that they would be 3D digital assets powered by AI.

Speaker 2: 25:26

Knew that, I don't know how I knew that, but I just knew that that was the future and that was also the future for a 3D spatialized metaverse, that they would be the building blocks building economies and economies of experiences and creative economies on top of a virtual space. So I thought, oh my gosh, I actually have a house that I can offer for sale as an NFT. And I was like, oh my God, I just have to do this, I have to mint the Mars house. And I was ready to ask the world the question whether or not the world is ready for a 3D digital asset of real estate, which is also presented as an artwork on SuperRare real estate, and as the, which is also presented as an artwork on super rare. And that was March 14th that I minted the piece. And, um lo and behold, aoi, a real visionary collector, collected the piece.

Speaker 2: 26:14

He actually came in and swooped all of my entire catalog that was available and uh, we had a phone call and he's uh, um, uh, based in Asia, and um. So we had a call and he's like you know, chris, I just wanted to know, I want to double check, if this is really a house for the metaverse the way that you intended. Am I getting the 3D files and everything I'm like? Yes, this is a house that you can actually install in a metaverse platform of your choice and it's yours to, you know, enjoy in virtual reality however way you wish. Right? And that was a revolutionary sort of like moment when he said, okay, I'll buy it. And then it was, you know, amazing. It just the world just responded very, let's just say, I was on Squawk Box the following week.

Speaker 1: 27:04

Oh, no, no, yes, I saw that. I saw that on your website. It's like now, everyone's paying attention. There's like, oh, there's money here. And it's like, oh, man, are you just missing? You're just missing the point.

Speaker 2: 27:21

Exactly. And then, of course, you know, everybody was like, hey, krista, when you you going to sell more houses? Or people come to me like, oh, I had all kinds of propositions to sell more houses, get behind virtual real estate development projects, at that early stage, without even a proper metaverse world built, everything was walled gardens. You've got CryptoVox Central Land Sandbox was walled gardens. You've got CryptoVox Central Land Sandbox. Yeah, okay, but those are gaming platforms and I did not consider that the true metaverse, the open metaverse, is what I was imagining in my mind, where everyone will basically be able to access an open metaverse. Different realms have interoperable assets, not like your home. Like you know, your home is in a video game.

Speaker 2: 28:07

That that's not what I wanted and I didn't want to create this um, you know this, this false bubble, right? I didn't believe in in, uh, in in the state of the market for real estate in the metaverse. Yet because, uh, we, we need to build out, um, out a greater foundation, engineering, right behind it, the architecture, so that we can all be there at scale right, offering services, creating experiences and, through that, creating value on top of these spaces, right, like the Mars House, for example. So I was really, really cautious and I knew that I had to take my time on this, and that's when I was inspired to create the studio, because I thought, okay, so instead of like selling all these houses, right, what I should be doing is creating experiences that add value, so that people understand the value being in the metaverse and we could build a metaverse together through these experiences.

Speaker 2: 29:10

And for me, I believe that you know, as a mom, right, I've got two teenagers and I think, well, what do I want for my kids? I want them to be smarter, I want education and I also want them to be healthier. I want mental health offerings in the metaverse, and I think that's what would attract mothers, women, society into the metaverse and the mainstream en masse as a mainstream, you know, selling point, and that's what I wanted to focus on. So you build a more robust reason and experience economy, which therefore supports the assets.

Speaker 1: 29:49

Yeah, that makes sense and you know this is your of course. You know we know we are in violent agreement on all of these things, because it's again, it's how do we? You know the interoperability, you know that's a problem, hopefully we will solve, but it's the economy of scarcity that we're trying to replicate in this virtual realm. That doesn't make any sense and that's why I agree with you that virtual real estate, it will have its place. There will be a reason for you to be in, you know, certain quadrant with a certain group, and but to me it's around community and it's not around the financial wherewithal just to be in. That you know, because again, you mentioned hierarchical structure. That's what we're like. Why would we build that again?

Speaker 2: 30:37

You know what you know. It's so cool. I actually learned a lot about this from Kyoto. Yeah, you know, kyoto is beauty, of all of their beautiful ancient buildings and Zen gardens over all of these millennia, you know, and it's the beauty of the space that brings people back, and it's this X factor that brings you back, and that's what I think is the only thing that's going to be a sticky point for the metaverse as well. So, yes, we are in total agreement there Create beautiful experiences and people will want to come back, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:23

And then you know the NFT craze and crypto, because they're going through. There's not only hype cycle, there's been so much kind of you know criminal activity that it's really sullying the elegance of the blockchain and really what we can accomplish. And this idea that we have to, like, wrestle cryptocurrency to the ground and make it behave like fiat currency Again. What is, you know, an exchange of?

Speaker 1: 31:55

just a transparent exchange of value, right and value can come in any form right, it can be art, it can be experience, it can be data, it can be cryptocurrency. But what are the mechanics of this new economy? And with microtransactions now, which have been, you know, sort of the bane of the regulatory existence, and trying to figure out you know how to, how to control it? But but out of that, you know, could, can we collectively divine a better economy, one where, you know, people in the remotest areas of the world can actually participate in a global economy? And you know what? What is the vision to to kind of allow that to happen?

Speaker 2: 32:38

oh yeah, totally, and I, you know, I, I for one, am all about foundational. You know the foundations right uh, when you're building something that will last, and I, I think that, especially when we're looking right now at the, the age where ai, metaverse and blockchain will converge, right, they're not siloed and I think a lot of people discuss these technologies as if they're separate, but they're really going to converge in a major way, what we have to do, and especially when you're touching upon and I think it's about digital identity, right, and being able to be recognized in the blockchain for what you contribute to an economy, a creator's economy, and be remunerated for the blockchain, we need to really focus on the digital identity part, don't we? I mean, that's the foundational structure we need right now, and I actually think that we're going to move toward a blockchain system that's powered and facilitated through AI. You know that will allow us to connect our true identity, our one identity. That is, you know, proof of who we are. That is our passport, that's our everything birth certificate, marriage certificate everything is connected to that true identity of who we are, and I think that, if it's immutable in the blockchain, it's accessible for everybody in the world to do because it's cheap to mint, and I think that this accessible technology will also be for everyone.

Speaker 2: 34:06

It's actually technology and I know about through our common friend, teddy Bahagbia, called Tenbeo, friend Teddy Pahagbia, called Tenbeo. It's a very exciting technology that basically attaches your unique heartbeat algorithm to the blockchain, which identifies you as a unique individual in the world. All of your bio data is fed into the blockchain. It is a wallet, it's a vault, if you will. This vault in the blockchain also facilitates the storage of your own data, so we can all self-custody our data and then, of course, self-custody of all of our assets and then, of course, our IP. So, as an artist and for anyone who basically is participating in the world economy in the future economy in the future, I think it's very important that it is clearly authenticated what we create and how we contribute to, whatever projects we participate in and we're fairly remunerated for that. And those microtransactions are. I mean, that's all AI and blockchain that will allow that to happen. That's a scalable model that anyone can participate in there and I think that's going to be the way forward.

Speaker 1: 35:20

Yeah, yeah, I agree with you.

Speaker 1: 35:22

I think it's going to take some time and I think we also have to agree, you know, kind of collectively as individuals, to do the work to actually start to manage our own data and manage our identities.

Speaker 1: 35:35

But to your point, you know, it kind of becomes a database query where, as long as, because we're going to present in multiple different types of personas, we might have one digital persona in one environment, a different one for a game, a different one for a collaboration setting and a different one for business, but that at a core they're all tied to that same vault or wallet or date, you know personal database, and there will just be a sort of a you know KYC mechanism and know your customer mechanism, which already exists, to allow you to prove that you are who you say you are, that you're not an AI, because that's going to start to matter soon, and that you're not an imposter, because that's going to matter, and you know you're not some sort of nefarious being and it's a little hard to imagine how to get there.

Speaker 1: 36:24

But this is where I also think that artists are so valuable, because you're able to draw people in in a way that is soothing and meaningful and human, in in a way that is soothing and meaningful and human, and then that's where we can start to educate and just bring people along like bit by bit by bit.

Speaker 2: 36:43

So I hope this is exactly Thank you, and and, and. So basically, the what I would love to do in my you know how Xero would like to strategize and bringing people in is to use this technology for mental health and wellness. So I mean AI technology and metaverse. What we want to do is we want to create the digital intelligent avatar of Deepak Chopra and other great icons and teachers that can really impart one-on-one information in a human conversation style, like what we're having right now with the AI. If you need guidance on something, I would love to sit with Deepak. Wouldn't you love to sit with Deepak and just ask him questions if you're going through something or if you need some advice? I mean, that's the kind of scalable service that Metaverse as a service can provide, if it's open, it's interoperable and that you know you can actually communicate with his, his intelligent avatar.

Speaker 2: 38:00

And then you think about how art like this can also be. You know, with science, ai generated generative art that can scientifically soothe your mind or give you energy. You know, have different effects on the brain and they're all sort of like. You know, all the biomarkers are, all the data is there and it's also stored in the blockchain, so the art responds to you, it's customized, and then, of course, you have all kinds of incredible wellness services that can be distributed to you. You know, through knowing you and your AI agents can facilitate whatever information you need, what you want, curated for you, bringing the right help, bringing you know, and I think the future is bright, if only we can use a technology that's you know, beyond economics first, that it's humanity first, but it can be a winning combination, right first, but it can be a winning combination, right?

Speaker 1: 38:56

Yeah, yeah, it's so, so true. So without? I know you already live in the future, but I'm going to ask you the question that I ask everyone at the end, which is normally 20, 25 years in the future, but let's go a hundred years in the future, cause I know that you can easily step into 25 years from now in your imagination. So, 100 years from now, you can bring with you any gadget, any service, just just any technology that makes you personally happy or makes you just better in some way. What would it be and what would it do?

Speaker 2: 39:35

in some way. What would it be and what would it do? Wow, so I would. I would love the um. I basically I would love to have my own avatar, um, connected to the blockchain, as I had mentioned, with my heartbeat that records everything I've done, and I'd love for after I, after I die, I would love for that avatar to live on.

Speaker 2: 39:55

For you know, my future great, great, great grandkids to know me and I can actually have conversations with them and share stories with them, and even just anyone really is that we can talk about what everyone talk about, whether it's my art or what. I think that that would be incredible to be able to live forever and just leave a legacy for future generations to learn from, because I find that we have so much ADD and such short tension spans. I think that people would really benefit from wisdom right, and gaining that wisdom, and I think this would be a really valuable kind of new thing that we can do, and we should do one of you too, amy, like we should just be living in the metaverse, you know.

Speaker 1: 40:36

Let's do it, I'll upload. I'll upload tomorrow. No, I love that and I think it's a way. It's a way it's, you know, it's a way forward, by kind of reaching back into the future, but in a really, you know, kind of positive and compelling human way, because it's someone you know was part of your family, like they're in your DNA, and they get to kind of live on a little bit through you and then you get to make better decisions through the knowledge that they impart, and I think I'm with you there. Let's do it, let's make it happen. Yeah, Wonderful project. Well, it has been amazing getting to chat with you. Thank you so much for joining us today amazing getting to chat with you.

Speaker 2: 41:17

Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you, my dear friend. You also inspire me. You're so eloquent and beautiful and my fellow futurist, always a pleasure.