Maxim Jago FUTURIST

Imagine a future where technology and creativity intersect seamlessly, shaping our world in ways we've only dreamed of. Join us as we sit down with futurist Maxim Jago, the mastermind behind the Creativity Conference, who shares his remarkable journey from aspiring indie filmmaker to a leading tech expert and consultant. Learn how his experiences have made him a distinguished voice in media technology and futurism, and gain exclusive insights into his extensive contributions to Adobe Premiere Pro. This conversation is packed with fascinating anecdotes and profound reflections on the evolution of technology and its human-centric potential.

Get ready to explore transformative ideas that promise to revolutionize education, mobility, and architecture. Hear Maxim's visionary thoughts on personalized AI-driven tutors that could forever change how we nurture each child's unique intelligence, along with the impact of autonomous vehicles and electric vertical takeoff and landing vehicles on transportation. Discover the exciting future of architecture with 3D printed buildings and wellness-oriented designs that prioritize human well-being. From personalized education to autonomous construction, this episode is a treasure trove of forward-thinking concepts that highlight the endless possibilities of our tech-driven future.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:27

Hi everyone, welcome to the Future Construct podcast. I am your host, amy Peck, and we're still in our Futurist series with talking with a lot of people who are spending a lot of time thinking about technology and our collective future, and today I have a good friend and colleague, maxim Jago. Welcome, maxim, nice to see you.

Speaker 2 0:53

Thank you, very happy to be here.

Speaker 1 0:55

So, maxim, you are a futurist. You're the founder and CEO of the Creativity Conference, which I just attended in New York, which is fantastic, and you'll be doing another virtual version soon. You're a film director, and something that you don't share a lot, which I'm going to just out. You is that you are one of the world's foremost experts on Adobe Premiere Pro.

Speaker 1 1:18

Oh yeah on Adobe Premiere Pro. Oh yeah, Adobe flies you all over the world to teach people and you've written their books and trained. And I mean, how many people do you think you've actually trained in Adobe Premiere Pro? I?

Speaker 2 1:29

mean, is it in the thousands? Literally?

Speaker 2 1:33

all of them. I write the official book on Premiere Pro, which is the classroom in a book, and the official book on Adobe Audition, which is their audio software, and I recorded 2,300 tutorials on post-production, also for Avid and Grass Valley, for EDIUS, but for Adobe. Actually, if you open up Premiere Pro, you'll find me inside it and a lot of people. They don't see my face, so if I use my radio voice and say something like now let's open up the file menu and add some clips to the timeline, people start freaking out because I've been in the- I know this guy.

Speaker 2 2:07

While they learned Premiere Pro. So I've been working with Adobe for quite a few years on that stuff and so, yeah, yeah, I know it pretty well. I wrote some of the exam questions that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 2:16

Oh good, that's amazing. So, you know, I like to start out by just, you know, the talking about everyone's which it's always the case, this circuitous journey to get sort of where they are today. So so you know, how did you first of all get into? You know, filmmaking and the evolution into tech, and then you know, really being focused on the future, and then the Creativity Conference.

Speaker 2 2:45

Well, I got lucky really. When I was a kid I decided I was going to be a film director. When I was 30. I won't go that far back, but when I was 13, I thought, yeah, film director, sure, and I had no idea what that meant. But I was wise enough to think I'd better get some other skills too. So I got some IT skills and then I ended up paying my way through film school, paying my rent by doing tech support for Microsoft, actually in a call center, and that just taught me an enormous amount of technology.

Speaker 2 3:12

And I began a dual career where I was making films as an indie filmmaker and increasingly doing more and more advanced high-level technology work. I ended up European tech support trainer for 3Com big tech company at the time, and doing third-level support, which was quite an experience. And then I decided, you know, I really need to focus on filmmaking and I did that for a long time. But I increasingly would be consulting on future technology for media and doing keynotes and speaking, and I kind of got, you know, I ended up writing the book on Premiere Pro, which is a long, boring story, and then I was known for media tech and post-production and then that, gradually. I'd be talking about future and emerging technology like XR and AI and that sort of thing, and I had a friend at NASA who would always introduce me to people as a futurist, and after about a year I was saying why do you keep doing that? And he said, well, look, I work at NASA. In my opinion, you're a futurist. So okay, fine, I'm a futurist, and so you shall, and so you shall Cake for everybody.

Speaker 2 4:14

So I just started consulting more and more and more on future and emerging tech, and I've always had a fascination for the way everything works, you know, and whether it's novel materials for construction or autonomous vehicles or cooking methods, you name it, I just I'm a fan of the universe, I just love the fact that we're here and I want to understand it. I'm an appreciator of reality, and so you know, more recently I wrote a practical philosophy book and I created a teaching system, wrote a book on that, about the way learning occurs. But I think that for me, it's always the most fascinating aspects of technology are the human ones, because ultimately, if someone doesn't experience it, what's the point? And so the technologies that I get really excited about are the ones that change what it means to be alive, and now I'm consulting for a bunch of organizations on that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 5:05

So if generative AI occurs in the woods but no one's there to see?

Speaker 2 5:11

it To see the generated art. Does it exist?

Speaker 1 5:16

I'm sure there's going to be a lawsuit irrespective, but yeah, we'll get there, we'll get there. So you know, in in. Let's talk a little bit about the creativity conference, cause you founded that a couple of years ago now and I think there's a great ethos behind it which I love for you to share.

Speaker 2 5:34

Well, thank you for for asking. So I you know, I've been a keynote around the world for about 20 years and I was asking myself this question one day. I was speaking in Pittsburgh, I think, and I was thinking what kind of conference would I pay to go to? Rather than being paid, it'd been quite a while since I'd actually just decided to go to a conference and I just created that right. I just created the event I would pay money to go to, and what sets the conference apart is what we ask the speakers not to do so.

Speaker 2 6:07

Ordinarily, when you speak at a conference, there's an agenda, there's a theme for the conference, there's something they want to sell, or it's education right, it's tutorials and it's really an education event, but it's dressed up as a conference. Then I thought, no, we're not going to have any of that. So my brief for the speakers and I'm blessed with incredible friends in all sorts of different industries that come and offer to speak and introduce speakers but the brief is do not please speak about technology, techniques, workflows, business skills, branding, business development or marketing or branding, or social issues or legal issues or anything that you could put on. A numbered list of steps is all out and a lot of the speakers will say well, what's left? And what's left is your joy, it's what inspires you so profoundly that you have no choice but to create something that never existed before. And then, crucially, we describe it as a sort of wisdom exchange event. We ask our speakers to talk about what they've achieved, with practical, actionable, specific advice on doing the same, empowering the audience, so you really come away transformed.

Speaker 2 7:15

And part of that inspiration was my favorite author, richard Bach. He wrote Illusions my favorite book in the world, I think and after he wrote Jonathan Livingston, seagull, which was a very, very famous, popular book, he hated writing it and he swore he would never write another book. But he described in an interview being woken up in the night, thrown out of his bed and the ceiling being torn off of his bedroom by the idea for the next book. And he resisted and resisted. In the end, the idea shook him awake and demanded to be written, and that's Illusions. It's a fantastic book, and so that's what we asked the speakers to speak about. What do you wish you had known when you started your career? And if we gave you a time telephone, what would you say to yourself? And it's working out pretty well.

Speaker 2 8:04

Nice, nice Well we gave you a time telephone. What would you say to yourself? And it's working out pretty well, nice, nice. So I would say buy apple stock.

Speaker 1 8:09

But bitcoin I did, do I bought bitcoin I did. I have lost, like my son, a couple of wallets. Though that's going to be a great business is just helping people recover their wallets once quantum computing is rentable and you can hack the, yeah you can actually just yeah, you can just keep poking at it until you know your 12 works actually come up.

Speaker 2 8:27

It's like the infinite number of monkeys. How many quantum computers would it take to unlock your wallet? I'm sure there's a.

Speaker 1 8:34

Exactly, exactly. I think we should actually visualize it as monkeys like you know playing with monkeys.

Speaker 2 8:40

Seventy four Monkey 71 found your past.

Speaker 1 8:44

Exactly, Exactly, More bananas for you. So you know you have had this really fascinating journey. You know we have you and I have in many conversations about what we think the future holds. I really enjoyed the creativityivity Conference in New York and enjoyed the other speakers, and I do think that's right. I think it was this sort of mind-melding experience and I thought what we got out of it also were very personal stories.

Speaker 2 9:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1 9:15

And personal journeys, and it's sort of why we start this podcast with, like what's your personal story? Like how did you even get here? Like what was the driver?

Speaker 2 9:24

Sleep deprivation and coffee.

Speaker 1 9:26

Well, exactly, you know, we go through, we work with people and we don't really know their own kind of origin story, and I think that those are things that are really impactful and interesting and color the way that you know, the experience that you bring into any work situation. And you know, though, we're in the midst of this futurist series and, you know, my hope is really to be much more expansive in the way we think about the future in technology.

Speaker 1 9:55

You know I do want to talk about ways that you know our existing audience, who are squarely in the AEC industry, can start thinking about digital twin end-to-end optimization, and I know it's not the thing you think about a lot, but I know you come across it in your work in general. So are there any things that you're seeing and trends we should be made aware of or look at?

Speaker 2 10:22

Oh, my goodness, it's such an exciting time for that in that whole industry. It's a couple of things that I think are just mind blowing and are right here right now and being built. You know, one is obvious. You know, you and I have had debates about what. What is the metaverse? And I'm not going to dive into that rabbit hole, but I would say one of the aspects of the metaverse is these multiple data layers.

Speaker 2 10:45

So, just as we've got multiple radio frequencies around us all the time, with signals that we're not particularly tuned into, I think everybody's anticipating these multiple layers in physical spaces that are a one-to-one twin, a one-to-one match for the environment. I heard just the other day I need to check if this is real but somebody said they put the whole of Earth in Unreal Engine. The whole of it, like the whole thing, is in Unreal Engine now, and so we've got this capacity to do things like add data layers that are specific to where and when you are. So we're geolocating and we're temporarily locating and, of course, one of the creepy aspects of modern life is that if you have a cell phone, which is everybody, your phone number is unique to you within that country code, which means it's unique in the world. And there are technologies to allow applications to track you and to track your interests within the environment that you're navigating, and this with the right how can you say, with the right permissions. This allows you to have an enriched experience wherever you go.

Speaker 2 11:56

And I think that extra data layer is really interesting, especially if the environment is designed to respond to you being there.

Speaker 2 12:04

That's fascinating.

Speaker 2 12:05

So let's say, for example, you're walking down the street and you happen to prefer yellow light street lamps to white, and the system knows, and it knows you're there and there's a data layer and then all of the street light if you're the only person there all the street lights go amber so that you have that nice evening light, just because it knows.

Speaker 2 12:24

And the second thing that I think is fascinating connects to this idea that we're developing technologies that give a nervous system to buildings and environments. So there are these postage stamp sized compute devices now that are so low power. The wifi signal itself drives them and they create a mesh network so they don't need lots of power to send the data. They're passing the data between themselves and they have detectors so they can detect heat changes, light changes, weight pressure. There's a bunch of things they can pick up, and that's providing a whole set of senses for the building, so it can feel where people are in a building and respond to them, and I just think this is a very exciting opportunity for the technology to create an environment that's even more comfortable for human beings. Right, it's a human experience.

Speaker 1 13:14

I love that. I want to continue on that thread, but we're going to take a little moment to hear from our sponsors and we will be right back. All right, and we are back with Maxim Jago and I really want to continue this conversation. I love that. I love that you liken the building and the technology to this sort of human aspect, because I think we forget that the technology is supposed to be in service of us and that may change over time.

Speaker 1 13:56

I read an article and I didn't read the whole thing, but the headline it was solid clickbait said I'm really looking forward to our AI overlords.

Speaker 2 14:07

Yeah, or we become the pets of the AI. That's what Iain M Banks says.

Revolutionizing Education and Technology

Speaker 1 14:12

But we're sort of adorable right, so hopefully they'll take good care of us and they'll feed us, like look how much we love our pets. So hopefully there'll be like a human co right when they can go and like get us all our fuzzy animals and things we like to chase around, you know, like expensive shoes and cars and expensive shoes and cars, and if they pay for everything, I'm down, like I will happily be. Yeah, yeah, why not.

Speaker 2 14:34

Yeah, take my money or give it to me, whichever way.

Speaker 1 14:36

Right, let me take more, yeah exactly, exactly and so in your day to day. So you know you're, you're a filmmaker, you are an amazing speaker.

Speaker 2 14:57

Thank you. You know what, what excites you Like? What's next? What's driving you man? You know Ken Robinson.

Speaker 2 15:05

He was the secretary of education in the UK for years and he gave what's possibly the most famous TED talk ever. And he opens the TED talk by saying look, we need about seven of the time, 7 billion definitions for intelligence, because everybody has this unique intelligence and the school system simply cannot support that. So we have this regimented system of schooling and you know I think it was Einstein said something like if you, if you measure intelligence based on how well you climb a tree, are not going to do very well. And so what if we had the makings of technologies that would support the realization of each individual's potential? Well, what if that would be my moonshot right? What if we could do that? So I actually I gave a keynote in dubai recently on um for hct they're a big uh like mit in dubai and we were talking about the changing the education system to prepare children and young adults for a symbiotic relationship with artificial intelligence. And then what do you do with that right? Let's say we're all on universal basic income, we're all chilling in the park, we're all doing amazing things together, but how do you work with the technology? So we spoke about that and what I'm seeing in the future.

Speaker 2 16:18

You've heard me speak for years about PPAs what I call PPAs private personal assistants and these are natural language interaction assistants. Nothing like the Siri or whatever, nothing like that. This is a technology that knows you and you know it. It knows your voice and it runs your life for you. And just think what you could do with a PA that completely knows you and everything about you and can run things. But then I was thinking recently well, what if we could give every child a private one-to-one tutor? So by the time the child was old enough to speak, it would have a tutor that would use language that was appropriate for the child, where the child could uh, could learn and grow over time and it knows everything the child has ever learned. It can do interval uh training exercises so it can say, hey, we haven't done the three times table in a while because it knows to the second how long it's been since they did the three times table.

Speaker 2 17:12

And it could completely reshape education so that children go to school for socializing, they go to school to learn about teamwork and collaboration and working with people and they go home and work, or even at school. They work with their personal tutor. That gives them exactly the education they need for their type of intelligence, whether it's visual or auditory, or literary or kinesthetic. That child learns in a way that maximizes their potential and it can guide them towards things that will give them the most joy. I recently learned this word, ikigai, the Japanese word. That means your life purpose expressed as joy. I love this concept. What if we had a technology that could provide that for every child and it's so cheap. It's software and that lifts everybody up. I think that's really exciting.

Speaker 1 17:59

Yeah, yeah, and we're, you know, and this notion of adaptive learning has been around for a very long time, but at scale, without technology, it's virtually impossible. I mean, you know, class sizes get larger and larger, teachers are stretched thin, and so the only thing that really works, especially with younger children, is to kind of herd them, like cattle, into this sort of central lane, because managing kids that just get to, you know, live their, you know, dreamy imagination is really challenging. But the problem is those kids who then, you know, end up in the principal's office. Those are the ones we want leading us into the future, because they're the ones that are always saying why, why, why, why, why, why, why, right, and those are the questions we need to keep asking.

Advancements in Architecture and Wellness

Speaker 2 18:47

Actually, the word why was banned in my house when I was a kid for about three months. Really, yeah, it was just like, okay, you cannot use that word for a while, because I always was doing that. And, ironically, everyone gets boxed in at school and then you get to work and the bosses are saying why are you not more imaginative, why are you not taking more risks? Why are you not trying more things out? So I, anyway, I'm very optimistic. You know about that and there's a bunch I mean, you're asking about the stuff I'm excited by, my goodness, autonomous vehicles bring it. I may be working soon with a company called VRCO. They have an amazing electric vertical takeoff and landing vehicle. That is just amazing. So transportation is really interesting.

Speaker 2 19:30

I'm really interested in the development of molded or 3D printed buildings. I'm also really interested in autonomous robots designed to work in a human environment. So construction, for example, we're talking about buildings. I heard for years ago from an architect that the expensive part of building things is the on the ground, putting together of the pieces, and that's why so many buildings today are glass and steel, because it hits all those health and safety standards. You just ship it in and bolt it together. But what if you had a hundred or a thousand autonomous robots that would come in and apply real artisan skills and, before you know it, we could have Venetian palaces popping up instead of glass and steel citadels. We could be on the brink of an architectural revolution, because it becomes cost effective to do this work and safe because it's a toaster. Right, it's a moving talking toaster, and if a wall falls on a toaster, that's a shame.

Speaker 1 20:29

But we've got another toaster.

Speaker 2 20:33

And, of course, even the identity of the thing is backed up in the cloud. And get another robot, put the memories of the first robot in it and you're good to go. So I think we could be on the brink of something really spectacular in terms of remodeling our environments. I'm a big fan of Christopher Alexander, who famously wrote the Timeless Way of Building, which is a book on architecture, and coders use this book to inspire them to write better code. But essentially he was thinking why is it that some environments make you feel alive and peaceful and some environments make you feel dead? What is that? Human nature seems to be universal, and he studied it, and the book is phenomenal because he talks about creating environments that allow us to be our most human, not the other way around, and again, I think that's right. I think we're learning about human nature now to such a depth that we can begin to create these environments and create life journeys that are really fulfilling Well.

Speaker 1 21:31

I think it's interesting too because you know one of the things that the kerfuffle taught us because we're not allowed to say the actual term is that you know we recognized it caused so many wellness and kind of emotional challenges that really came to light and in some ways progressed more rapidly or appeared more rapidly than they might otherwise have done.

Speaker 1 22:00

But what that really has shined a light on is also just wellness in general. And so when you start thinking about, you know like, you know a building lifecycle, for example, you know using sensors to really optimize for the humans who are interacting in that space, and there's value also, you know, just you know, because we have to sell everything backed up with ROI, right. So here's the expense which can be significant in building a, you know, a fully functional, you know wired up digital twin. But then these are the tangible, measurable benefits. But there's a plethora of of other benefits, wellness benefits that maybe you know are a little bit harder to measure in the short term but will have incredible benefit in the long term. And so are you seeing evidence of that just in industry in general, where there is either a focus on wellness or the, you know, byproduct of new technology is wellness.

Speaker 2 23:24

Yeah, I mean, this is fascinating, right?

Speaker 2 23:26

So when we started to get biofeedback devices in the consumer space so you've got a smartwatch and it's measuring your heart rate, it'll let you know.

Speaker 2 23:34

You know those of us that got it right you get the watch that does the cardiogram and you think this is awesome. You do it three times and you're like okay, I have a heartbeat. This is nothing. I don't know what I should be thinking. But one of the things that I think is a feature of human nature is we become what we think about. So it's like that old shamanic tale if you think about all the things that make you unhappy, you tend to live a more unhappy life, and if you think about the things that make you happy, you tend to live a more happy life. And so what you focus on becomes your reality. And as we're increasingly getting access to low-cost, consumer grade but still very good biofeedback devices, our awareness of our physical well-being naturally attracts our attention, and then we tend to be more well. And so you know, we're starting to see goodness. I think Apple said originally they were forecasting up to 15 sensors on the Apple Watch. I think it's like three currently, and they're obviously taking their time implementing them. But I think that that awareness they just sold out of weights, right. When everyone was on lockdown, everybody bought weights because they figured right, I'm going to lift because I've got time, I'm at home, everybody sold out and bicycles all sold out. But I think that what we're seeing is twofold, right. On the one hand, we've got these consumer grade technologies that are just telling you what's going on. We've got, I mean, look at the like, ios has a sleep system where you say, ideally, I want to go to bed at this time, I want to get up at this time, and it just annoys you until you go to bed. Right, it just says hey, just so you know. And this feedback. I think we'll get more and more and more of this from AI. That will guide us towards health, and that focus means we will tend to choose the salad a little more often rather than the burger. That will happen, well, I believe it'll happen one day, but maybe.

Speaker 2 25:31

But the second thing that's happening is that we are daily we're deepening our understanding of human well-being. You know, back in the Victorian era, they had this concept of the homeostat, which is this internal system for balancing body temperature, heart rate, breathing your whole endocrine system, and it went out of favor and came back into favor. It went out of favor because no one could find it. It came back into favor because it kind of seems to be a thing and so. But then again, astrology is like that, so I'm not going to get into that rabbit hole.

Speaker 2 26:00

But now, for example, look at the microbiome. So I had a meeting yesterday with someone that was talking about the development of a microbiome development system where you go through stages of taking tablets that give you the right microbiome and people are identifying correlations between what's your gut bacteria and your emotional state. And a perfect example of that is this famous psychologist was saying that that clients that have anxiety, he just effectively prescribes for them a high-protein, high-fat breakfast and something like 70% of his clients stop having anxiety and they're all looking for reasons in their lives like, oh, I had that argument with that person and my mother was rude once. But you just need more protein and fat in your diet, more like the keto diet. So I think, as we learn, as we as a species, collectively, with our collective understanding, work this stuff out.

Speaker 2 26:58

I just saw today there's a company where they've created contact lenses that you wear at night in your sleep to reshape your lens, in the same way that people are wearing trainers for their teeth, and it gradually reshapes your lens so that you don't need glasses. It's a it's glasses, it's contact lenses you wear while you're asleep to reshape your vision. We're gradually learning, learning, learning about this stuff, and every day we it gets easier for us to like. We're learning. Now, some of the oils we use in our cooking is probably not that great for us and it was very convenient, but, yeah, it's probably better to stick with different kinds of oil. So, overall, where our deepening understanding makes it easier and easier for us to be healthy, happy and well, and it's just effortless for the consumer.

Speaker 1 27:47

Well, but we have to. It's effortless, but we have to pay attention, right? You know? Like my thing, you know, says oh, it's time to wind down for bed, and I'm like you're not the boss of me, like that is my first reaction.

Speaker 2 27:58

Amy, I would never risk telling you what to do. I would. They should rewrite that. So it says. Madam, may I please put before you the idea?

Speaker 1 28:06

Would it please you to start wrestling now? All right, that's more like it.

Speaker 2 28:09

All right.

Speaker 1 28:13

So, before I let you go, I am going to ask you the question that I ask everyone, which is if you could project yourself, which you do, I think, on a daily basis, 20, 25 years into the future. You could project yourself, which you do, I think, on a daily basis, 20, 25 years into the future, and you could bring with you, you know, any gadget or thing or service or magic that would just make you personally happy or make your life better in some way. What would it be and what would it do?

Speaker 2 28:42

This is not a fair question to ask a futurist, but I have one, I have an answer. This is not a fair question to ask a futurist, but I have one, I have an answer. I'm thinking 25 years in the future, so that's like 2048, right? I mean? You know, one of the things that we're anticipating from AI is that it will serve us by developing technologies. We couldn't work out how to do so. There's a lot of stuff that will just be. You know, the AI one day will say oh hey, by the way, interstellar travel turns out that you just eat extra toffee or something and then you know whatever. So there's a lot of stuff that I think is in the works. That will just be done, but there's.

Speaker 2 29:16

I've spent decades trying to understand gravity and I think I've cracked it. I think I've worked it out. I think I've worked it out. I think gravity may be a property of quantum entanglement, because it's a projected energy. Every particle is entangled, but entanglement flips the direction. When particles are entangled at a quantum level, the movement of one flips in the opposite direction for the other particle. So what if the gravity is actually emitted from both particles at the same time? And where they meet because they're inverted they pull together instead of pushing apart. There you go. That's my magic solution for gravity and the device I've always wanted is an anti-gravity belt. And you know we all want to be able to fly. And you know there's that question like if you could have any superpower, what would it be? And when I ask people that question because I do quite a lot of mentorship and it's one of the questions I quite like to ask to get a feel for the person I always say you get to fly automatically, like flying like a superhero, whichever one you prefer you get that.

Speaker 1 30:20

That's already, that's already part of the deal.

Speaker 2 30:23

That's like when you order fluid on the airplane, it comes with the cake, like it's the same cake, so, but you're choosing your main. So what's the main course that you would want in addition to flying? And then you get a much more interesting answer from the person.

Speaker 1 30:35

Mine's called Invisibility, and then a mute button for everyone.

Speaker 2 30:41

Yeah, actually I want to develop a just leave me alone mode for the internet. But Actually I want to develop a just leave me alone mode for the internet.

Speaker 1 30:46

But we can talk about that another day.

Speaker 2 30:47

No ads no, nothing, no pop-ups.

Speaker 1 31:06

I literally have one of those for LinkedIn. The endless messages for video explainers, offshore development, lead gen all the nonsense that nobody cares about.

Speaker 2 31:12

Yeah, I actually. I got to say it'd be a toss up for me between the anti-gravity belt and they just go away. That's a close call.

Speaker 1 31:19

I'm saying it's like it's worth considering as we're constructing this imaginary future Like that you know.

Speaker 2 31:25

Yeah, but I think all of these things will come. So you know, it's not two pie in the sky. I think we'll work it out.

Speaker 1 31:31

Exactly, exactly. Well, maxim, as always, it's been a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker 2 31:38

Well, likewise, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Bye.