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Speaker 2:All right. Welcome everyone. I am James Orr and tonight we're doing how Mr x graduated college, stopped renting and built a real estate empire. Let me get my little crazy advance slide thing. Yeah. So upcoming classes. Um, that's this week. Next week we're doing explaining rent to own tenant buyers. So, um, how many people are doing rent to own in here? Lease options, anything like that, Raise your hands high. Only, like four people. So next week we'll probably only have four people in the class because what I'm doing next week, I'm going to go over a little bit of the rent to own process, but then for the second half of the class I am going to teach you how to talk to the tenant buyers when you're talking to them on the phone. And we will pretend that the room magically transforms you are no longer real estate investors, you are actually the tenant buyers and I will explain to you how the presentation goes and the idea being that I will record it in such a way that you could use the recording to prescreen tenant buyers for yourself and save yourself a bunch of time because one of the things we find is that we have to talk to a ton of tenant buyers in order to find the right tenant buyer to do the deal. So I'm gonna try to save you some time. So that is next week. And then how many people are liking the interviews? We've done two interviews so far. Anyone not liking the interviews? Heard one mind today? Yes. We'll ask next week. It'll probably be very different. So, uh, we are trying to keep the interview theme going after this. I think I'm done. And uh, this one is going to be bankrupt. Homeless living in his car to$1,000,000 plus in real estate. Um, we're gonna have Mr. why? Because a person here tonight is Mr x, we're going to have them come for August 22nd and do another interview. That one's going to be really interesting. This guy actually was literally living in his car down by the river here in Fort Collins and now is crushing it real estate. So we're talking about how that happened and what he had to do for that. So, uh, then after that, actually this is going to be one of my most anticipated classes of the year. Um, the class that Brian's teaching, it's called the best decision making tool for evaluating real estate vestments. Brian, you want to tell us about what was in your class? Um, so if you were here last week, you heard me talk about, uh, playing poker professionally for three years and this class is basically taking poker and the way you appropriately make decisions in poker and apply it to real estate. Um, and so it's not going to be like this huge math lesson, but a rice and I had a discussion about this last night. So maybe you should ask race if he learned anything. And then he could heck is going on, why is this going wrong? How we handled it, what we learned from it, uh, and so forth. Yeah, I'd say a lot of times things don't go the way you think they're going to go. I mean, you could solve a lot of the problems, but sometimes it's really unusual that way. Alright. So we're going to do introductions. Who are you and what have you liked best about previous Craig interviews? Um, and based on what you say, we may slightly changed the questioning for tonight's class because we basically, we talk all the time so we have not preplanned it. It's not like we sat down and went over a list of questions or anything. I'm just going to ask him about his kind of investing and what his experience has been. Um, and so we'll talk about that, but if you have specific things that you liked about Mary's interview or that you liked about Brian's interview, then I'm happy to kind of manipulate the presentation site in order to do that. Um, is there anyone here who is the first time here? Okay. Did you guys get copies of the book? If you fill out your sheet in front of you, then we'll give you copies of the book. Anyone not received copies of the CD from Mary's interview? So everyone has received copies of the cds, is that correct? Brent needs one. If you would get about. Allison's going to hand out once view. I didn't get a copy of Sydney, let her know and she'll give you that. If you're this your first step here, if you fill out that other thing, the sheet. I'm allison will trade you for a book. Okay. So introductions. We're going to start over here with Mary. And who are you and what have you liked best about previous and Craig investments or interviews?
Speaker 3:As James said, I'm married. Um, I was the only interview I had was last week with Brian and I thought it was cool just to be able to ask them questions.
Speaker 4:Nice.
Speaker 2:I'm Brian Williams, a longterm buy and hold investor in the, uh, northern Colorado region. Um, I don't know what I liked best. I'm glad mine's over. That's what I liked best.
Speaker 4:A lot of prep.
Speaker 2:I'm Dan Smith and I just really liked it. I think it's inspirational just to hear other people's stories. I'm Brent and I have not seen an interview yet, so I'm looking excited to this one. Oh, okay. Better perform right. I'm Josh. I have not seen an interview either, so.
Speaker 4:Awesome. Yes,
Speaker 3:I'm Beth, I think and like the interviews because it gives you a clue and how to think better and how to maybe push yourself into thinking. Not like everybody else.
Speaker 4:Awesome.
Speaker 2:My name is brandon. I'm like, what I liked most about the interviews is they have been inspirational or motivational.
Speaker 4:Um, yeah.
Speaker 3:My name is caroline and I like how real they are. Um, the people start from nothing, just like many of us have come from nothing or little and have had the opportunity to see that you can actually build something from a right. Being a regular Joe.
Speaker 5:My name is Scott and I've not seen any interviews yet.
Speaker 4:Okay. Awesome. Thanks.
Speaker 5:My name is Bob and what I liked about Mary's interview is just that the American dream is possible if you work hard,
Speaker 4:you don't like anything about Brian.
Speaker 3:We don't have enough time to cover all those elements, so I'm Barbie and I liked how both people were real candidate. I'm Tammy and yeah, James is my husband and a lot of prompting there from the front row. I think the interviews are cool because it gives you guys insight into, you know, people's story instead of just seeing the end result. You get to see like the, how it happened. So
Speaker 6:I'm Denise Long term buy and hold in northern Colorado. Um, I really like west this interview, the appraiser. I think it'd be cool to get more professionals like that in different areas and see their side.
Speaker 7:I'm Austin and I think what I liked best is just a transparency and passion as well. Like tammy said, I liked seeing the process behind the methods versus just the end result. So thank you.
Speaker 4:Awesome.
Speaker 3:I concur. I'm Michelle. I'm a way. But yeah, just the openness and honesty and I think it just makes it a lot more real and relatable.
Speaker 4:I'm Alan
Speaker 5:and I agree. Just super inspirational and it's just A. I guess it's, it's cool air. It's interesting to see how, uh, the risks other people,
Speaker 4:well, I have taken and maybe you can apply it to your own future endeavors where you go to make sure that myself, is there a red dot then you're getting, is there? Oh, I love that.
Speaker 7:I have no idea if it was on or not, but I'm insurance Brian, and I think the best part about the interview so far is you take that one line of making a real estate icon and figure out exactly how they did it. And so it makes the sensational story a realistic attainable goal, whether it's Mary or I'm a professional like west or Brian or seem to be Royce here. Um, it just kinda breaks it down. It's, it makes it into manageable steps.
Speaker 3:I'm in this
Speaker 4:personality. What do you like Mike's Recording? It's not for amplifying your voice. Yeah, that's fine. Hi Paul. I'm cooper and I'm new. I haven't been here yet. So
Speaker 8:I've Elijah and I just like the others found, uh, especially like Mary's very inspirational and enjoyed being able to see the entire process and how it began and even the challenges that they've faced in how they'd worked through them.
Speaker 3:I'm Madison and this is my first time coming, so I'm looking forward to it. Hi, I'm Cheryl and I listened to Brian's interview is very interesting in all the different jobs Brian's had. Um, so it's just nice to see somebody move or what you've done. Look at a condo and then that started the ball rolling for you.
Speaker 8:I'm Bob. This is kind of non real estate I guess, but what I find interesting is to hear what people used to do before they got into real estate. You go to a lot of places and everybody sort of majored in the same kind of general stuff before they got into the thing you're working on now or worked at another company that's Kinda like opening your work part now. But real estate seems to have a lot of people that did other just unrelated stuff.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, hi, I'm Karen and I think what I liked best about Ryan's interview is the human interest aspects of it. It's more than, you know, there's a, there's a method to his madness. I know, but a lot of it also has to do with serendipity. You just happened to be at the right place at the right time and the, there's a lot to be said for that. So thank you. Hi, I'm Tina and um, I heard Brian's, uh, I was here for Brian's interview and full of insight and just little tidbits and gold nuggets. So yeah. Are we good? Thank you.
Speaker 4:My name is Munir and uh, what I liked, uh, but the interviews was the fact that it wasn't just all a eerie actually actual situations that uh, we can then use when either good things with strange things happen. It's happened to other people, so we already know it's not a surprise and no charge, no charge.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thank you very much. So a couple of other quick announcements for people that have just started a new fixture. That's you. I mean, so you look like, so, uh, the podcasts basically it, it's available on Itunes, spotify, stitcher in tune them and um, we have, I think 122 classes up at this point, so all the class recordings that are there are available and uh, we usually after the meeting, so if you guys are getting the emails from Holly, um, you can go ahead and click on the links for any of the resources there to get access to all this. All right, so let's get started with the interview. So before we jump into it, um, it is, it is incredibly difficult to get somebody who is willing to come up here and kind of share their situation, open up their finances, you know, talk about the challenges they had, what went right, what went wrong and kind of do that. So we're really, really fortunate to be able to have people like Mary and Brian and not now mr x is kind of come here and do that. So I do appreciate it. And, and I just want to let everyone know he has complete authority to say I'm not willing to share that much information so you know, if he's willing to answer, you know, what he makes or how many houses, that's totally up to him. It is not the end Craig policy. It's not the right culture to go around asking people how much you own. Um, I consider it rude. I think it's a little obnoxious if you go up to someone and say, you know, so how many houses do you own and you're in your head multiply and you know, okay, so 15 doors times$500 per door. That means you make this much money. And uh, I just, I don't think that's appropriate, so we don't do that here. But if he chooses to do that, it's up to him. Uh, so I just want it to do that and as a token of our gratitude for you coming and doing that. Um, I did get you a tiny little gift card for. Thank you very much. Thanks. So that's for you. So thank you again for doing it. Thank you. Yeah, you're very welcome. All right. So, uh, let's get started. The interview. So, um, do you want to introduce yourself? Did you do it yet? I have not introduced myself, so I'm gonna. Uh, Mr x has been revealed. I Dunno. Um, so yeah, let's start right there. So why did we, why don't we do mr x for you and not say your name. It can be what you want to just talk about that to begin with the kind of set the tone for where you're coming from. Yeah, I think, uh, I mean for me it was a combination of things. Part of it was a thumb, a non, an anonymity. There you go. Yeah. Yeah, that's a hard one to say. Um, you know, I don't mind sharing, I don't mind you knowing, you know a lot more about me, but the Internet is a huge place and when we start, you know, this will likely be uploaded and somebody can search my name and this comes up. It might be a different, uh, you know, my brain's some consequences with that I don't want to know about. And we actually talked about this earlier today that someone doing a search for Brian Williams. I mean, you're not going to find him, right? You know, if someone does a search for James or you're not going to find me a, but I don't know, Royce Katana's a relatively unique name. My name pops right up. So I think it's, he's like the right one, you know, this is why it's named Mr x and all the writing stuff and we won't actually put Rice's name on there, but I think he's fine actually sharing who he is and he's super, super open guy. I mean one time I was asking him about, um, you know, I'm making this new calculator thing and I want to kind of build it like what financial planners are doing. So he said, hey, I met with a financial planner recently and I said, you know, I'd love to be able to kind of just see the format of their reports and everything. And so the next day he sends over like his whole thing with like all of his numbers and stuff. I'm like, all right, I guess he's okay. Sharon. Stuff, and so he's definitely an open guy and willing to share. So how did you even find out about real estate? When did you decide you were in real estate
Speaker 9:stuff? Yeah, so I mean, uh, coming out of high school, one of the things I did growing up, I showed quarter horses. We traveled all over the US kind of showing horses, came from family work really hard. Um, but I was around a lot of people, a lot of people were show horses. There's people there that also have a lot of money and it seemed like there was always somebody who was, you know, you ask them about, you know, what, what they do, what was the best thing they did and it seemed to never failed that somebody would mention real estate. And so it's kind of something I was always kind of in the back of my mind, but, you know, I had to get through high school, go to college, you know, get my degree. I kind of did a very traditional path that way. And so when I actually graduated college and got my first job at Wago now broad Tom, um, you know, I set up my retirement account, got my 401k up and was like maybe made it two months of watching money go in and watch and it starts to grow and I, you know, you look at their calculators and everything and I'm like, I have much bigger like financial dreams and aspirations and I need something that has a multiplying factor to it. And you start looking down that road and you find real estate because you can leverage and, you know, at least for me, I, I believe that I can take additional risks and I've used the leverage as a, an additional risk and in many cases. And so that led me to that point. And I think the naturally, the very first thing I ran into was, you know, Rich Dad, poor dad seems like 99 percent of other people started. You find rich step word it. Um, how did I find rich Dad, poor dad. Someone recommended to you. You know, actually when I was looking at real estate, I came across a and it was mainly coming across financial, uh, you know, kind of freedom and there was a blog and I actually went back the other day to try to find it. It's called 7 million in seven years and it was the guy, his journey to try to make, you know, 7,000,007 years and uh, it was a really good blog and had, there's a big focus on finding your number, so he was, you know, focus, if you're going to go out 20 years you need to double that in 40 years, you know, do, you know, quadruple it type thing. And so he, uh, I think he mentioned in there talking about Rich Dad, poor dad and I started down that path or reading their. Okay. And so did you read the book and she'd do audio. I believe I did audio on that one. I do a big combination of both audio and just reading what made you have the bigger financial dreams when you were looking at your flora? What k, like where did that word, that seat start? Um, is it the people showing horses and stuff, is that sort of what it was? No. Well, yeah, I mean certainly there's, there's impressive. That's impressive when you see other people. I mean, it was bonkers. We showed horses with Kyle petty's granddaughter and they had, you know, these$300,000 horses that they had and we were self made, you know, trained our own horses and I think it was a lot of uh, you know, my family, I had a, my parents have always worked for everything that they've ever had, right. And so I know they provided a lot for me and it was, part of it was really this drive of wanting to do well by them. Right. And then, uh, the other part was knowing that in the future I would have a family and that I wanted to be able to provide bigger and better things for them. This is part of what pushed me down the career path that I had, things that really, you know, I was looking for a job that would pay well. I think the first big motivator was as like, I want to give back to my parents, like their dreams, right? I don't, they were very selfless and so I think my big thing was like I want them to be able to travel and go see the world in a way that they can say they never dreamed of being able to do. And so that kind of theme has always stuck and it's transformed over time. But I have this really, um, I feel like it's my duty to kind of to be the best version of myself and it's do, do as much as I can. And I think we've talked about that some, uh, in developing our why. Um, and for me it now you think that's really the roots of it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm going to make a comment about your kind of like young work ethic thing because I think when I look to hire people in business as a business owner, I think there are two things people did when they were younger that are miles above indicators of success and reliability and performance and stuff like that. And they are whether or not they worked on a farm, because whether you have, whether you feel like it or not, you're getting up and you're taking care of the animals and it doesn't matter if you feel sick or whatever it is. Christmas morning, it's like there's no break from that. It is a every single day, no matter what sort of job, which I think builds that sort of like grit and resilience and work ethic and to you. And the second one is whether or not you are employed in a family business. Ideally a family business, like a restaurant because I think it's the same sort of thing where you're hustling and you got to do stuff you don't like and you got to stay out late and you clean up and the non fun jobs and it's that sort of work ethic that I think builds up some kind of like really good skill. So it's really good to see that you kind of had that. I'm grown up there. So when you kind of read Rich Dad, poor dad, what was your next step for getting involved in investing?
Speaker 9:Oh, I mean from that, right, it, it gets into the whole quarter of passive income and building these, these multiple income streams I think was we talked about you need to have, you know, millionaires have six to seven different income streams and so I viewed, you know, having rentals is, you know, that's my next one, my main job rentals. That was the very next thing for me. And so how do you reconcile having six or seven different passive income streams to like a warren buffet saying or whatever the saying is of focused, put everything in one basket and focus on that basket. How do you kind of like think about that difference in your mind? Yeah. So if I do not think you should spread yourself too thin, I think people will do that. They'll have 100 different things going on and while I have a lot going on, it's, I have made a very intentional, make sure that it's focused. And so for me real estate was and always has been. It's going to be a longterm play. It's going to be, I'll invest. And I, I came, I started talking to James about, you know, basically doing what is now nomad and so I knew that in all the common books you read, I think a millionaire real estate investor, basically the consensus is that as long as you have a long enough time horizon that it's, you know, it's a relatively safe and I'm no good investment to go into. And so I looked at that, knew it was going to be slow and so I knew I could start building that up and then I could start to learn the next thing, right. And start to bring that in and I can start focusing my time and energy on it. And then as you know, whatever came next, I would keep funneling money into real estate and just continue to grow that slowly because I was, you know, I have a ton of money, I don't have a ton of money to just throw in real estate and make it, you know, snap my fingers and have all this cash flow. I think a lot of people, especially here, right. I mean, trying to find cash flowing properties is hard. Yeah, so did you think about, you think about, I went to college, I got trained as a computer engineering and computer engineering, computer, computer, electrical, computer. What's the intellectual engineering, computer and electrical engineering. You kinda develop that skill and then you're at a job doing that training and then on the side you kind of learned how to do the real estate stuff and kind of built that up and once you got to a certain level that you've started other businesses, which we'll talk about later, but you're sort of like moving through different skills to kind of develop these multiple streams of income. Correct. Yeah. And so I think, you know, I take overtime, I've learned to take action faster on things that I think I'm starting to trust my blank a little bit more, but especially in real estate, right, there was a lot of just time I guess, and energy that went into learning. And so, uh, I think I just went to a course I was trying to remember, there was a big investor down in Denver. She does like huge multifamily but, but does a lot of coaching around like creative financing and those types of deals. And uh, I was fortunate enough here, I didn't come to him. Craig for state started going to icore, which is another community up here. And you find out about icore. Uh, I think they had a bigger social, like I don't know, they show up in seo results when you look for Fort Collins real estate investing, you went searching for them on the web and you found it there. Okay. And then did you go to a meeting first or? So? So I went to a meeting. Firstly, I think the first meeting you get to show up at for free and then after that you need to sign up and it's a relatively low fee to be part of their group. But, um, it was a great networking environment. I think. I'm trying to remember. It was like the very first or second meeting, one of the things they did is they stand everybody up at the front of the room and you stand across from everyone and you introduce yourself and what your needs are. And so I had mentioned, you know, I'm a young guy, I've got time hustle, but I want to figure out what I'm doing with real estate. And I met, uh, to local investors here, Jim and Zoe Matlock, super nice people and they kind of pulled me in and actually they were the reason I went to that conference, but they started me down the road of finding, you know, building up a, a, a deal analysis spreadsheet and doing all of all of these types of things. And I think the initial idea was that I would, uh, help buying deals for them and kind of bird dog in a way for, for them. Um, you know, and then ultimately, you know, the amount of work I was putting in and it wasn't necessarily at the same level. I think they're really wanting something that would build faster. But you know, I'm very grateful for the guidance they were able to provide early on. So you were looking to do more creative stuff like bird dog and find deals to wholesale or find deals to take out creatively at first. That was your initial model. Yeah, I thought that was. I mean I think you get online, you start researching it, like it leads you down that path. Right. And so I didn't think, I didn't think about the simple first move of just, Oh, maybe I'll go buy my first property, live in it, turn it into a rental. Like there were some, those are nice small steps that I just think it, uh, they're not big and flashy so they don't get a lot of attention I guess. Right. So like let's flash forward. So right now, knowing what you know today, and we're going to talk about where you are now, but are you anti creative deals or you just don't have the time for it or what's the, what's your thought process on them now? Would you do the same thing or. So? I. So I think creative deals are great. If you have the time and the energy to go do it, do it. But uh, for me I'm balancing having a full time job, a demanding engineering job and having the time to go find these creative deals. Right. And so it, it truly is. I mean, I looked into doing wholesaling because I mean as much as a, you know, pseudo passive as a rental is, there's another side of it that is 100 percent active and I view wholesale as that you need to be able to take phone calls and go talk to you know, potential sellers and you need to be able to do it very quick manner and you know, my job doesn't provide that level of flexibility. So that was for me to go out and do that didn't make sense and still hold the job that I have today. Right. And so what was the appeal of it originally? Was it low down? You know, not having to qualify for loans, but it means you've got a job. So it's not like you couldn't qualify for loans or anything. Yeah, I mean I was fresh out of college. Right. I don't have anything for savings, no extra.
Speaker 2:So this was like, you were literally just out of college, just starting your job. You did this
Speaker 9:three months. Three to six months after my job I started this. Yeah. It was literally watching my money going to 401k and watch it stack up. Just so. And you know, part of that's being, I don't know if it's inpatient or whatever, but it's what drives me. Right. I looked at him like I can do better than this and so spurred me forward to
Speaker 2:finding something else. Okay. So you were hooking up with Jim and zoe and they were trying to help you do some creative stuff and they brought it down to this meeting. They're going to bunch of icore meetings. How many micro you got it, man, I don't know. I'd probably six months worth of meetings or something to like six or something like that. Yeah, it's in that ballpark. Okay. And then it was that enough to get you where you need it to go or what happen?
Speaker 9:Yeah. So what was interesting is a icore. They have a mailing list, which is great. People send out their deals on it and at the time James was, I mean, it was not spam, it was good stuff. He was just smashing the email list with like stats and graphs and charts about what the current market was doing and the way he was analyzing data. Like that was exactly how I wanted to look at data. And he had, he clearly had access to the data that I was trying to get access to. And so, um, I think right at the time I, it, I mean that's what made me call him. So I called James and at the time, I don't know if you were, I think he had just transitioned over into being more of a traditional broker because the first, uh, first, you know, you get an email or his voicemail, which I left his voicemail initially and he said, I'll call you back when I had, when you can have my undivided attention. I'm like, okay, this guy is like serious about it. And the very first thing he's like, so are you looking to do one deal? Or like, because I really want to build a longterm relationships, I'm not interested in like a one and done type thing. Like this was my guy, so I knew it wasn't my intention. You won. I knew I was going to do more and multiple in the future. So that started me here. Coming in, we got together for lunch. Right. Got To get to the lunch at Qdoba.
Speaker 2:Do you have to buy lunch or live island? No, I, I, well I don't know if you bought lunch would probably is free. Lunch was not free. Just to be clear. He's Qdoba is listening. Was Not$2. Oh that's right. Yeah. Corporately paid for something. Alright. So we got together and you told me what you were hoping to do. What did I tell you at the time? I don't even remember it.
Speaker 9:I think you were asking me about what my goals were with real estate and I really didn't have. I knew I wanted to acquire, but I didn't know exactly what that looked like. And I think I, I think I had come to the conclusion that I wanted to buy my own property first because right as I was meeting you. So the first condo Brian ever bought, I lived in the same condo complex, almost bought my first property there. Um, so my landlord, um, call says, Hey, I'm looking to sell. I'd Kinda choose an agent or I think she had kids and so stopped, I don't know exactly. Um, but she was like, I can do the paperwork, no fees. And so I think I could have bought it back in 2013 for like$170,000. Should have bought that. I should have bought that, no doubt. So it was a, but it was good. I started going through that and then I passed on it. At that point I think was, I was in the process of talking with James and uh, I knew I, I constantly wonder if I go back to the same exact point, but I know I was dead set. I wanted to get a multifamily property. My ideal, my goal was to get a duplex or triplex and be able to move into one side, rent out the other side and I think James is like those they're few and far between. They were definitely more common back then than they were, but investors were snatching them up very fast and so we looked at a quite a few properties, single family homes and I don't know why we passed on some of them, but
Speaker 2:yeah. So for those of you that are kind of listening at home or are kind of listening here, you know, if you think to yourself, hey listen, I really want to duplex triplex, fourplex, I'm going to ask you. So knowing what you know now, would you hold out for the duplex? Would you hold out for the triplex? Would you hold that for the fourplex or what would you do if you were starting over and you knew now? No. Um, I mean it was no mean.
Speaker 9:I know I would not wait. I'm just, I think you will spend so much time trying to find that one perfect property and the action that you take, just jumping in, it answers so many questions, gets rid of so many fears for you and even if that one, even if that costs you money, you hear plenty of people, right? They go to, I think Mary mentioned went to Fortune Builders and spent a lot of money with them. You can really screw up on a deal and learn a lot.
Speaker 2:Did you, did you spend any money, unfortunate builders or equivalent? Did you go to any of those things besides a class in Denver? The one, the one class and then I think it was like I have 400 bucks or something, but no, nothing, nothing like that. So did you, when you bought your first property, do you feel like you knew everything you'd like had studied? Establish this. So in college, were you a good student? Yes. That was good. Were you a four zero seat?
Speaker 9:I was not a four zero in college, but I was Valedictorian of my high school and was definitely
Speaker 2:one of the top engineers out. Okay, so you're not like a stupid kid? I hope not. Okay. So now that we've established, you're not a stupid kid. Did you actually know everything you needed to know before you bought your house? No, not even close, but did you want to know everything? Oh yeah. I mean that's, that's natural. But could you have known, known everything? Would you have still be. Would you have even bought a house at this point if you waited to learn everything?
Speaker 9:No. No, no, no. There's no, no chance. I mean you have to jump in and go. And the fears that you have in your mind are most. I've met, most of them never even going to come to fruition. Right. And most of them are not. I mean, they're easy problems to solve. Like it's a.
Speaker 2:people don't believe me when I tell them that. It's like, you know, the early ones, your first couple of purchases, those are easy. I mean all those problems are super easy itself. It's when you start getting to the point where you're trying to buy your 14th property that it becomes like, man, what am I going to do? It's hard for me to get a loan debt service coverage ratio and where do I come up with down payments. It's already all invested in here and I don't want to go do cash out refi is because I'm over 10 loans and I can't do this. And there's all sorts of weird funky stuff that happened on the other end. So the early stuff's like super easy. You have all sorts of flexibility and lots of options.
Speaker 9:That's funny. You know, I remember thinking back, wondering if I can even qualify to buy a house. It was, I mean all the,
Speaker 2:all of the fear that you could qualify to buy a house. So you got out of college, you got a really good job at Wago at the time. I'm not going to ask you how much you make unless you want to volunteer, but what does a typical engineer at a college make?
Speaker 9:Yeah, so I mean I was in the. I made around$80,000 when I came out of college, but I think a typical compare Martin
Speaker 2:that's right, per month. I wish I probably wouldn't have worked there anymore. And you're. And you're thinking to yourself, I don't know if I can qualify for a house. Yeah, no, it's definitely a fear. Did you listen to Mary's interview? No, she's, she's working at the post office. I forget what her numbers. They don't remember. It was at 32 or 30, 32 after taxes and she's able to acquire a million plus in real estate. So have, you could listen to that. In retrospect, would you have the same doubts?
Speaker 9:Probably, but no. I mean I know, I know it's possible, but I don't think it removed that level of fear. I mean, when you see a quarter of a million dollars as your first home, right? It makes you like, it's a lot of money,
Speaker 2:like sticker shock, fear. No doubt. And so would you like, like looking at it now, are you still afraid when you buy stuff or is it like if you overcome that fear, how do you look at the fear part of it?
Speaker 9:Uh, it's, uh, so I think generally fear is like you should have some fear and like just about everything because it means you care. Um, so I do believe that yes, I still have fear and the deals I go in today, but the one thing I do is I do my research and I. So I viewed taking risks and I try to minimize the downside as much as possible. That is, that is our job as investors is in everything that you do is you're going to go take a risk. I mean, stuff can fall apart tomorrow, but you're really trying to minimize that downside if you can do that effectively. I think recently it's kind of a theme that I've come across as a, you know, you might fail at some point, but your, your entire goal is not just don't fail out of the game, right? If you fail so big that you fail out of the game, right? You can't, you can't get started again, but I what I know now I know I can get started again and keep moving forward and so that's what you need to do. But man, taking that action and getting out there and does definitely huge.
Speaker 2:All right, so you, you and I met for lunch and you decided you were going to start looking for a home to live in. Ideally duplexes, right. I heard you just say. Right. And then did you start coming to class here or what'd you. What'd you do after that?
Speaker 9:Yeah, I think you've told me there's a real estate class and I think I showed up like it was at Red Robin at the time.
Speaker 2:Okay. So we're to eat at Red Robin at the time, which was a horrible venue to meet yet by the way. It was rough. And how many times did you come to like Red Robin? What is it like one or two times? Did you come for a long time?
Speaker 9:Oh, I was there a while. I don't. I mean, you guys were there longer, but I mean, I don't think I missed that first year. I don't think I missed a class. Right? I was coming here constantly. I was either here or I was, you know, in my spare time I was on like bigger pockets. I'm reading blogs which is like an amazing resource. So you guys should take advantage of the information that's on that website.
Speaker 2:So let's talk about that for a minute. So you were reading a lot of bigger pockets now knowing what you know now and what you read back then and maybe you still read on there today, um, are you concerned about everything being on there? Everything on the website being 100 percent true and believing everything you read.
Speaker 9:I mean you should have, you should have a, have a chunk of a skepticism, but the, the majority of the content is good.
Speaker 2:So like when you read about people saying, hey listen, you need to buy a property where a two percent of the monthly rent or two percent of the property value you can collect in rent. What do you think about that? Rule?
Speaker 9:It doesn't work in this market, but somebody does that mean you don't invest in this market? No, you, we have different each eye. So I believe when you're getting started you should start in your local market. It's somewhere that is very tangible, real that you can go see your property. You, I mean, you are directly connected to it, you know, if like stuff's going bad here, like you can make adjustments quickly. Um, and uh, there's no other market you're going to know better than where you're at currently. So, um, while there are rules, because I think, I mean the millionaire real estate investor I think is a phenomenal book, but what did they talk about the one percent rule in there as like they're hard and fast, you know, um, way to go, but there are still ways and still wealth building components to, uh, that are outside of those immediate factors.
Speaker 2:I mean, James is being a little silly asking you if the two percent rule works and I understand his point, but like bigger pockets. So the way I think about it, do you think, do you think it helped you expand your breadth of knowledge faster or slower?
Speaker 9:Faster. Much faster. So I, and that's definitely the thing.
Speaker 7:It's like big picture bought, expanding. I mean that's how I view Rich Dad, poor dad. Like I mean there's plenty of people who are not fans of Robert Kiyosaki and like what he represents and, but that book was phenomenal and I love that book. I have recommended a bunch. I'm so it's worth the, I mean anything that can get you to think a little bit differently or get your mind just, you know, churning away at it is worthwhile. And even Kiyosaki says about himself, you know, a third of the people are going to love you no matter what you do, people are going to hate you no matter what you do. And there's a third that are undecided and it's your job to convince them either to love you or hate you. Right? And so that's sort of your role there. So, so basically you started coming to class. At what point did you buy your property? Do you remember? Like how far after we met that you bought your first one? I think I met you in August of 2014 and I think um, I think we went under contract in November of 2014. No, no, no, we were earlier than that. I think it was like, it must have been like at still need. It might've been August but we were under contract in. We are early. We were, it must've, I don't know, September, October. We under a contract because the place I moved into the House I bought was a duplex, had tenants in both sides. So you know, I'm going to own or occupy this house. It's not, you know, I'm not doing. So let's talk about that. So when you do a, when you buy a property in your owner occupied are getting order occupant financing, the lender requires that you have to move in within 60 days of closing in order to be able to get one rocket and financing. Otherwise it's loan fraud, a occupancy fraud specifically. So if you're buying a duplex and there are two leases on the duplex and the leases are longer than 60 days remaining on them, you've got a problem buying that as an owner occupant. So most of the time if somebody were looking at a duplex and they saw that there were two leases on it that were beyond the 60 days after you plan on closing, a lot of owner occupant investors would pass. Did you pass on that deal? I did not pass on that. So did you want to pass on the deal or who came up with that idea? I can remember at this point. I mean, so I found the deal. Yeah. Let's talk about that. Let's finish up the owner occupancy and let's talk about how you found that. Uh, so the owner occupant thing, um, I think James right away we went and looked at it and it was like, okay, how do we buy this? And then how do I live in it? And so, I mean, the solution was to, all right, we're going to pay off one of the tenants get out. Right? So wait, did I hear you correctly? James suggested you bribe one of the tenants to move out of the. Exactly right. Brian just asked, have I ever done that any other time? James seemed like he was a pro at it, so we're not going to go there. I know this was a very, uh, I got, I got lucky.
Speaker 9:So the owners of the property, um, it was a partnership. One of the owners happen to be an agent. Like one of her favorite things was she was telling us this, it was, that she loves helping first time home buyers. Like that was really the thing she loved and so happening to me my first home and they were, I got lucky. I mean this was the time like, like I said, investors are buying duplexes like crazy. This hit the market. It was going to get bid up, it was going to get bought, probably cash close out the door. Brian probably would have bought it. Um, and so
Speaker 2:actually, uh, we'll, we'll cover this again. Like you, there's another house even before this one or maybe right after they looked at. Were you in Brian went head to head.
Speaker 9:That's true. Um, so this one was a, they were willing to be flexible and so they understood that I, we needed one of the tenants to move out. Well, one of the tenants happen to want to go buy their own home. Well that comes with its own timeline, right? They've got to go find a home, get it under contract, actually close on it. And so they were willing to keep pushing, closing out as far as needed. And I was lucky because the landlord I had at the timbers condo was just, they had. So the house had sold to a new landlord. So I'm lucky I got two awesome landlord at the time and I told her what I was doing and she's like, Yep, just give me 30 days notice. Thirty days notice, 30 days notice. So my timeline, it was just nothing else other than being very nice to people and luck.
Speaker 2:And so what did you need to have in order to have them move on? I really don't remember. I think it was, I think we paid him$2,000. So is there anyone here who would say to themselves, I'm not willing to pay$2,000 in addition to the purchase price to be able to owner occupant a duplex in this marketplace? Anyone not willing to do that? Maybe do a different way. Who is willing to pay$2,000 to buy a duplex? It's marketplace. Yeah. See? Yeah, I think Brian says he paid more. Right? And so, I mean this was, this is my first property. I had a little idea of like creative financing and was getting some portions of that, but this was like, holy cow. It wasn't a creative financing, not traditional financing. The purchase. And what'd you, what kind of loan did you do?
Speaker 9:Uh, so I, this was one of the reasons I was looking at doing a duplex was because I can take advantage of an Fha loan, three and a half percent down with horrible PMI, but man, three and a half percent down versus having to go 20 percent down looked amazing.
Speaker 2:Even with the PMI, it's not that bad. No, it wasn't that bad. Rates on Fha are usually pretty low,
Speaker 9:correct? Yeah. Rates were good, but you know, the PMI is lifetime of the loan, that type of thing. So I, I mean if it were me, there's like if I'm buying a single family home, there's very few circumstances that I'm using an Fha loan grief. Right. So this happened to be, it was a multifamily and it fit this and it was the right loan and was good. So let's back up and say how did you find this deal? Because you said I did not find it for you. That's correct. Although I don't know how because I think you are. Maybe you didn't have. Maybe you weren't running a, you know, a little thing that identified a duplexes triplexes on craigslist. But I got, again, this is timing and showing up and I happened to be on Craig's list looking at deals that were on there. They, I guess they must've done a horrible job like what their key words or something because when I'm looking at duplex or something like that, like it was like on the fifth page and they just listed it. So I don't know what happened, but doug enough and looked at enough properties, you know, scan and through everything and this one was there and said, Hey James, let's go look at it. He was like, let's go now. So it was, it was a property that was listed and was not getting a lot of action. It was a super hot market at the time. I was always second one, second one second. Tammy has comments and she needs to be. I'm like the two people own the duplex. One was a lender who was not retired, the other was a realtor had retired and so it wasn't listed in the mls. Has to advertise it on craigslist. But even still, I like, if you look at the, I've spent a lot of time looking at properties that popped up on craigslist and duplex triplex. Like they were getting snatched up even over there quickly. Yeah. Uh, do you remember what you paid for it? Yeah. So it was my final, I think it was like 250, 3000 or something like that. So a 250,$3,000 duplex. That's not for half. That's the full duplex by the way guys. I'm in our marketplace in Fort Collins. Correct. Sort of. Not directly by CSU, but CSU ish area. Definitely within that range of student housing type area. And you thought we were going to get how much for it or what did I tell you that I thought you're going to get for rent? What are they low ball you with? I think we said put a thousand, a thousand dollars a month in there. And then for the one side. Other side, correct. Yeah, this was one side I'm occupying the other but you know, when I'm running numbers of how the it'll perform because I am not staying. They're moving out in a year's time. That was the plan. Um, but yeah, I think we said conservatively, conservatively we thought we would hit a thousand dollars a month and then I think uh, I mean we're already under contract and everything but uh, James called me a little later and he was okay. So go put like 1150 and they're look at it once and then close it and pretend you never saw those numbers. But this is what somebody told me they were getting in the same area and so it was like, okay, this feels good, but it, it'll, that, that property allowed me to really. I mean, I saved a lot of money that year. Well it's like I don't think I saved any money, but it saved me a lot of money on a mortgage because the other side was paying a huge chunk of it. But both sides were rough. What was the condition of the property?
Speaker 7:Was it like ready to go? Everything was really pimped out or was it bad or what now? So the lower unit was worse and that's where he, we moved into first you moved into the lower unit because that was the one where the person you could bribe those was ready to leave. Correct. Yep. And so, and I, I wanted to get them out so we can fix up that side. Um, but it was, I mean it was nasty carpet and so it was, you know, ripping out carpet the walls had, and this was looking back, it was probably silly thing that I even cared about it like looking back, I probably don't do this, but I mean we did a lot of work, um, a lot of manual labor and that property a lot of manually, which if you listen to asset protection, do we recommend that? No. So knowing what you know now, would you do it again? No, but I also made sure I did. I didn't do the flooring, I didn't do electrical, I was doing very cosmetic things, but I mean there was a lot of deferred maintenance. I think I was like, I have an awesome family. I think we don't know. We spent probably a good month or more working on the property and just outside. I remember my cousin and my brother, the leaves that had piled up out there from like, I don't know, five years of just people never removing leaves. We literally, my parents have a big dump trailer and we filled that thing up like three times and we were just hauling tarps and I dumping them in there. That was just to get rid of the leaves and inside. Right. We like floated out the walls so they were nice and smooth again, like oh my gosh, I never want to do dry wall work ever. But you know, laying down texture and or yeah, the mud and then smoothing that all out and then sanding at all. And do you think flooding the walls got you more rent? I don't know, made me happier at the time but no. So when you bought it, the lower unit was bad though cause they had like these, it's like they took a broom, right. And they'd have these stripes down the wall and then they have like a patch in the wall that was just smooth. So then it was just like, ah. So I, I'm like a little OCD that way. So when we looked at it did you feel it was rough? I thought so, but it was not, it was not something I couldn't work with. So it was like habitable but rough. Yes. Okay. You were willing to move in and its as is condition. I knew I was not moving in and its as is condition. You didn't move in and it says did you move in or do you do stuff before? And we did stuff before we moved in. So how long did you have it vacant before you actually occupied it? I think I had 60 days or whatever I had to be in and we were in like 45 days. Okay. So it wasn't immediate? No. Did you, how much money do you think you put into the property when you bought it? Like in addition to your deputy? I was trying to think about this the other day. I was probably, I probably put like, I don't know, 10 to$15,000 total on both sides are so, so 15th day and high end total everything. So you're basically all in for like two 65 and a lot of manual labor and a lot of manual labor and so. So here's the question, when you bought it, what are the praise for it? When you it, you bought it for 2:50? One of the principles? I don't remember. Was it, was it below appraised value? No, no, no. It was above. Is above appraise value, like your purchase price was higher than it was a place for it? No, no, no, no, no. The other way. Whatever. So the appraised value is higher? Correct. Okay. So you were basically buying that a little bit under market. Correct. When you put the 15 k in, did you think you were going over appraised value where you think you were just bringing it up to appraise value? I think it would have been close. It would have been bringing it to appraise value can get like a screaming deal. This was not like a$300,000 duplex. You picked up for 2:50, you thought? No, I didn't think so. Because you're paying retail plus needed some work. Oh yeah. I mean we'd definitely. We're not trying to low ball. I think we came in above what they were asking at least initially. And not, not a lot. I mean it was a two to five k or something, but yeah. Okay. This is in 2014? Yeah. Okay. So you bought the property, uh, took 45 days to move in. What did you see the top unit was rented already? You remember what they were getting? They were at, what were they at? I think there were like 8:50 or$900 a month or something. So they were at$900 and when we bought it we thought maybe a thousand if you had to rewrite it. Right. So you were basically only getting 900 from upstairs. When they did that, did they stay when they read it with you? They know they did not, they did not renew him. When you had to renew it, what'd you get for a while? So I, so I lived in one side for six months and then knew I was going to move upstairs and picks that up as well. She lived downstairs until they moved out. And then you went upstairs after you fixed it up and switched. Okay. Okay. So you moved twice? Yes. Okay. Which I'm sure it's not fun, especially since you just carried upstairs. Yeah. But you know, you. So when you're coming out of college, like you should just do this nomad move every year because you do not have a lot of stuff. Like every year since then becomes more and more painful because you get into bigger properties and you have more furniture. So that like whole minimalism lifestyle, like live that hard early and don't acquire stuff. Okay. So you moved from downstairs to upstairs, right? What'd you rent downstairs now that it's fixed up because you were living there for six months. This is funny. I think I put my brother and his roommate were our first tenants downstairs. Okay. So you have family in their family and their. They paid 11$50 a month. So the family rate was 1115? It was, it was at that time it was, that was cheaper than a, it was like$100 a month cheaper than what I thought I could actually get at that time for the market. So that was what, six months later. What happened? The first I gave him some kind of deal initially, but yeah, when I was out in gone later it was at that rate. Okay. Alright. So your brother and his roommate lived downstairs at 1150 for a year. Ish Year? Yeah, they were there a year. And then did you move out of the upstairs unit like six months later? I did. So it was just a year from when you bought it to, to do it? It was, we really close. Um, I think I was maybe 13 months or something. Okay. And where'd you buy your next property to the next property? I bought in north Fort Collins. If you guys are familiar like the dry creek neighborhood over there. Um, I bought a, like a single family home there. Okay. So let me ask you this question. You had mentioned, you know the state lean when you get to college and do the nomad thing. Did we, do we know about nomad when you bought your duplex? No. So we didn't have any idea about this idea of seriously buying properties and doing that. How did, how did you determine that you were going to move out after a year? Yeah, well I think maybe I'm trying to remember if we did at that time or not when I was in the duplex, but uh, I don't remember the exact timeline, but I was having lunch was having regularly regular weekly lunches with Bryan and James and I remember the lunch we had, I had been thinking about this for whatever reason was looking at numbers. I think you start looking at the burger model, the buy rent or buy, Rehab, rent refinance or some of the other switched. But uh, I started looking at those numbers and then I thought, okay, well I can do that. And that's basically what I did with the duplex was like, okay, turn that into a rental, go onto the next one. And I knew I wanted to get at least the duplex as its own standalone, you know, income source. But yes, I think James and James and I were talking at Brian's house that afternoon and James like, whoa. I think the, I think the numbers look awesome on that. I'm going to go run like some crazy numbers and we're like four years later and he's still running crazy numbers on it. So we're thousand billion calculations later. Right. So backing up just to complete the duplex, when your brother and his roommate moved out, what did you rent the bottom four or what's it rented for now? A rented for now it's at 13.$20. And what's the top 13? 40 a month. So close to 2,700. Twenty 6:50. Somewhere in there on a purchase price of 2:50 with 15 k to two 65. So you're actually at one percent right? Right. It looks crazy. So I actually happen to know the date we had that lunch. Okay. So I remember the story slightly different than you do. Um, so as, as I remember we were in Brian's house and we were having this discussion and you told me I didn't come up with this idea. You told me, hey, I'm thinking about moving out and using my five percent down payments owner occupants to buy my next property and sort of repeating that every year. And I started just doing some really rough math in my head and I told you those numbers are going to be freaking awesome. Right. And so then I went home and I recently, I know that days because I emailed you the spreadsheet later that day because I went home and that's all I did all afternoon. It was right this spreadsheet. I wrote the first nomad spreadsheet where I basically said, okay, if you're buying a house, you're one year, two year, three year, four year five and year stopping at 10, you're putting five percent down for each of them. What does that look like? And it was insane. And that happened to be may 20, first 2015. Okay. So when did you buy your property? Yeah, so it would've been in November. So I bought it November 2014 and then I bought my next one in like January 20, whatever. So like six months later when you're about to move upstairs, it seems like then you basically said, hey, this is going to be my plan, that we'd be buying these other properties and you're not the only one that sequentially bought properties. It just never occurred me to systematize that. I thought it was sort of like just all these different anomalies that people buying a property, moving in and keeping it and doing the rental thing. So it's not like we didn't invent buying property cereal. Okay. Uh, you know, I named it, I said, so you're going to basically be like a nomad movement, Cape The Cape, the cave, the cave, the cave and doing that. And then we did more math than anyone would ever want to do in that lifetime on the model so that we can tell you that stuff. But basically he said this is the model I want to do and I'm not sure where you got it from. Do you get it from bigger pockets or did you get it? I think so. I can say it was long. The Burger model and people rent and refinance and they'd go onto their next one and I was like, I can definitely do that. Yeah. And so we did the spreadsheet on it and I told you the math looks amazing, you should do this. And so we went and looked at another property and if I remember, I remember a little bit about the next purchase it was, there's a strategy for when to, for you guys when you're buying, if you can buy around a holiday, you tend to get it where people are not looking at. The theory is, you know, Labor Day, weekend, Memorial Day, weekend and Christmas and Thanksgiving, people don't want to be out looking at properties. And so anyone who is silly enough to put their house up for sale like the weekend, the Friday of Memorial Day weekend or something like that, they're just asking, excuse me. They're asking for trouble because there's not a lot of people actually willing to go look at properties Memorial Day, weekend or Labor Day weekend. The pool of buyers as much smaller because they all want to go on vacation or go do something fun or whatever they wanted to do. And so if I remember correctly, for your one and dry creek, it was like around the thanksgiving. Christmas ish time. Yup. Right before Thanksgiving someone decided to put a house on the market or something like that. Actually fell out of contract right after. Yep. Right there. So one of the contract and then fell out. Right. And we were, we, I think you were at work and you said to me, hey, would you go run by this one and see if it's worthwhile? And so I went and I looked at that property and since there were a bunch of other ones for sale in that neighborhood, I said, hey, why don't I go look at all of them for you and I'll tell you how it compares and, and kind of give you an idea of what I thought about that particular property. Yep. And then I don't remember. Did you come out and see it before you make up? For some reason? I didn't have the reason you went around and looked at it and I didn't have my car. I don't know why I didn't have my car, but Adelina actually drove me over to that house that day and the driveway was ridiculous. Is the steepest driveway like if like. And it folds over and so I didn't have a low profile car and it would just, it was, it was crazy. And so that's why the health a bond out of contract the first time as the guy had like a sports car and it was like I can't get in the garage. That was the excuse. That was his excuse. Some pretty valid one if you have a nice sports car and what a parked in the garage. So I feel like you're gonna want to tell the story and this is probably an appropriate time is ever. So we go in and see the property and what's sitting on the kitchen counter. Oh, radon. A box. Radon tests. Radon Tech. Okay. So basically someone, the old inspector was still in the middle of testing for radon. When they terminated, they put it back on the market. So the radon tests is sitting there. So what do you do? Take a picture of that test and then a and take note of it. And so did you see the results of the radon? Uh, yeah. We knew what it was. He didn't have to do a radon test because he happened to run into the box from the previous buyer. Yeah, it was over. And so yeah, I mean this is, this is right around Thanksgiving timeframe and so get it under contract, move into the inspection period and I'm just like, I'm not, I'm not getting into inspection. I'm just going to call the old inspector up and see if I can get him to tell me if there's anything that really should concern me. So I did. I called and was like, Hey, I saw the box. I know that you were. I think I got permission or at least the name from the previous agent or something. I don't remember. They called him and he was like, well, I can't really disclose because I don't have permission, but there's not really anything you need to be concerned with. So inspection on your offer? Or did you? Joe? I still had it but I just chose not to get it, but I. part of the offer was like I did talk to the owners and was like, Hey, when we walked in here there was a radon test and you are over so we can either pay to go have this done or are you can go have it done and then install it later. We can just go install it now. And if the test is like as expensive as the install was or something. Yeah. So. Okay. So did you have to pay both? Asking pressure that one. I think again we're, we're close. We're like right at market or five k over or something. And so you went and bought that property. Did you buy any properties between the duplex and the other one? I was trying to remember the timeline on that or not. When was riverview built or wonder if we buy those could have been 2014, 2015, probably 2015 I put. Yeah, it must have been. It was definitely 2015. I remember this now. So it was before this one? Yeah, before the super. Interesting. So basically you bought your first owner occupied property. It's a duplex. And then even before you bought your next owner occupant property, you decided to buy another one as an investment with partners. That is correct. So let's talk about the partnership stuff while Brian is verifying dates. Just tell me and I'll say that I'm like, so what, what did you do you had you even know where that you were going to buy these other properties with partners May, May, 2015, may of 2015. Yep. So, uh, I, I think, I think part of that conversation we had about doing nomad mad was that I believed that if I wanted to keep building my rental portfolio, one of the things I could do was, or
Speaker 9:take five percent, put it towards a down payment. I have 15 percent, you know, that I could, that I have leftover basically to go buy another property. I did not have that extra 15 percent, you know, I just got done remodeling half of a duplex and um, I knew of these new construction homes that were coming up. Um, thanks. So let me talk for a second. So you were not independently wealthy, you didn't inherit money from your parents, you didn't have like this huge amount of money that you had when you graduated college, you were starting off really tight. Yes. Okay. And were you saving pretty much to get to the three and a half percent down for the Fha loan at that time? Yes, very much so. Really, really living below your means to try to get up to that. It's pretty close after college graduation, right? Correct. Yeah, very, very close. And I know one thing, you know, I didn't, I haven't, you know, didn't receive money from my parents, don't come from a wealthy background, but again, work ethic was a huge part of it and I definitely have this like perfection and this competitive desire. And so I was telling them this the other day that, you know, I'd walked in the door as freshman year, didn't even know really what a Valedictorian was, found out what that was. And I'm like, there's no way anybody else is going to be valued for any except me. And it's just because I can, like I believed I could do that. And so part of that came, I remember my parents telling me or my dad, I either could go get a, so I worked in the summers, but my senior year especially, he said, well, you can go get a summer job or you can apply for scholarships. It must have been doing junior summer because those were all early. But anyways, one of those summers, um, he's like, imagine what does it take you like a couple of hours or whatever to get your first scholarship together. And so you end up with like a handful of these essays and then suddenly you can just like blanket the earth and scholarship applications. And that is what I did. And so that advice and guidance and like telling me to go that route. I did not pay for a dime of college. It was all scholarship scholarships and grants. And so I was part of what allowed me to come out of college and start looking at properties that early was that I did not have any debt. I was just going straight into it. And I felt like that was a really. Um, I'm very fortunate for that because I do believe that compounding is, you know, it's, this was the eighth wonder of the world and the sooner you can start the better. And that was like where my mind was at the new student loan debt. No credit card debt? No credit card. You buy a new car when you got out of college? No,
Speaker 2:Brian wants to say something, but where he's been denied for the record, I bought it while I was in college. Even better they'll play. All right. So, so basically you set yourself, hey listen, I'm gonna have a hard time saving up this five percent for November. Whenever I'm ready to buy my next property, um, I want
Speaker 7:to buy another property because we tell you about that. How'd you find out about the deal? So one of the two of you I'm sure told me about those. Oh wait, Brian Remembers this story. I mean this was like February of Twenty 15 because that's when they started like doing construction. And like we saw, we were talking to journey because I had bought a journey home somewhere else and so they were like, oh, we're also building out in riverview. And we drove out there and looked at it. It was like the last time you'll ever see the sign, like houses from the one nineties, right? Yeah. Well, it's one, yeah, yeah. High one hundreds. And you're like, well, now you're never going to see that sign again. And so yeah. Then you went out and took a look. And I went out and took a look and everybody and their dog went out and took a look. And that starts the beginning of James's Jerry Journey
Speaker 9:realtor. But, but there's one thing I knew, right? I didn't have the funds. Um, I, I knew I had a good job and that I, at this point I was sure I could get another loan, um, because I've now done my homework on what, you know, borrowing power really was. And so, and there was no lack of hustle. Right. I was like, nobody else is going to go out there and find the deal. So I'm going to, I found a deal, I ran the numbers, I mean I was definitely educated by James and Brian very quickly on what lease options were and like I ran with it. I was going to go put together or not was I did go put together partnerships, found money, sign on the loan, I'm managing it. And so my portion of that deal was, came from signing all alone and being willing to manage it and I still manage
Speaker 7:partnership till this day. So let's slow down on that. A couple of things. So, uh, finding the partner that you tie up the deal or were you finding partners in advance so that when you had a deal you were ready to go? Yeah. So I was under contract before I found partners. So basically you didn't know you were going to do a partnership. You went there, you saw the property, you're like, let's write one up. Well I think the conversation was, I think you can find money, put it under contract with me, you said. I said, well, I thought it was kind of along those lines like I had. I had some pretty strong belief that I would be able to find it somehow. Okay. So basically you said you went in and I could buy an llc and I was going like burst bank route and yeah, she basically went, you found the deal, put the deal under contract and then you went and started hustling to find partners. Did you go to and create to find partners? What'd you do?
Speaker 9:No, actually the first place I reached out to was my personal, you know, family and friends and that was where I reached out to and I will tell you that, that was, those were the people. I mean, partnerships really are, you know, I've, I've not been married but you know,
Speaker 7:term relationship. You've not been mad women,
Speaker 9:but uh, you know, it's definitely a, an intimate relationship and it, the plan is to be longer term and you got to get along with people and so families a good place to start. But I will tell you that the, and this is all of my partnerships to date, is I hold a personal responsibility that I am you, I know they're investing. They know they have risks, but man, I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that I do not lose my partner's money and that they're going to want to come back over and over again for future deals. And so, um, you know, knowing that I had that conviction made it easier for me to go ask, you know, my, my dad's a partner on that and then another friend brought the rest of the money. So.
Speaker 7:So you went in and you found the deal and you're managing the deal, you're going to find the tenant buyer and you sign for the loan and you had someone else come in with downpayment? Correct. Okay. So that's basically the three parts of the deal. Basically money partner, loan partner, and kind of like deal maker. That's how we normally separated if you go to our partnership classes. So you basically took on loan partner and loan partner, loan partner and deal maker. Right. And Are you willing to share how you divided that up? So for those two roles, I, I ended up with a 36 percent of the deal. Okay. So 36 percent for managing and signing antelope. Okay. And you went and you found a tenant buyer? Yep. And was that hard or easy? It's not easy. It's not easy. Okay. It's a lot. It's also not fun. Brian says is a lot of phone calls. So like how many are we talking? Five, 10, 15, 2000. Over 100. It was over 100 calls in to find your tenant buyer. So. And I'm doing this deer like working full time. I would get like, I don't know how many phone calls in the morning I would leave for lunch, like eat whatever I had that I brought with me sitting in my car, like just calling and talking to people as fast as possible so I could get back to people because I knew other people were also taking phone calls, locking people up like significantly faster than I was late to enter. So many nights I would watch him and he's in his car talking to tenant buyers after work. Eh, it's probably true. That is the hustle. It is so totally the hustle, which we commend you for doing that. I think it's actually impressive. So you think it was over a hundred? Oh yeah. Easily over a hundred. Easily over 100 people that you talk to and explain to your program to 100 calls. 100 people I talked and explained it to. Well there I probably filtered out a good chunk of people really quickly. Yeah. Yeah. But I would still say I don't know. Okay. I probably, I was not good at. I was not good at pitching. Lease options are probably still. I definitely am still horrible at it, but it's a skill you need to develop and get better. Yes, I'm much better now. I can get on and off the phone much quicker. I think I spent way too many times on the phone where it should've been a one minute and out conversation and it was more like 10 minutes on the phone. Right. So those dragon. So they got good value. Your partner's got good value. They put up money, they took you know, two thirds of the deal. And you did all this work. I mean you basically found it and you were managing. It wasn't just finding the tenant buyer, you're doing ongoing management of the property and everything as well. Right. And I will say something about your calls with, with tenant buyers and while your time is super valuable, if you get somebody on the phone and you're explaining your program and they are like genuinely in my goal. I remember when I started this, my goal was to leave like everyone a little better off than when they called me before. Right. And what is crazy is that attended. I have in another property called me on that one and remembered he was like you. I talked to you like a year ago about this and I remember him because his voice was very like unique, super deep southern. I was like, I talked to you. Yes you did. And he's now my tenant and it's awesome. So don't be a jerk on the phone. So. So basically you went and you put this deal together, you found your partners. How long it take you to find partners? Somewhere between February and May of 2015. Was it less phone calls for tenant buyers or less phone calls for partners, a less phone calls for partners. So it was easier to find partners than it was to find tenant buyers. So if you think about that, do you. Because you know, people complain to me, they say listed with the tenant buyers now how many people really don't have great credit and that's why they want to do a lease option. What's been your experience with putting up, you know, a couple ads essentially to find your potential partners? There are a lot of people that are interested in there. So there's not a shortage of tenant buyers know the shortage is whether they're qualified. That's correct. Yeah, I think it's a function of whether they're qualified and a lot of that is definitely whether they. The option amount you're asking for. And how much were you asking for in this? Uh, this one was five k. So basically you had, you bought a property for, I think it was like 200, right? Two. Oh, five. I think two to 10. I think it was two. 10 total to 10. And what was your, what were you selling it for on your lease option? You ever, what was it like to 35 or something in year one? So 2:35 in year one. Yes. I was aggressive. And by the way, that may also contribute to the numbers. I mean if you're, if you're much more reasonable on pricing, you're much more reasonable and friends. You get people that are qualified and get people that are more anxious earlier. Right? Yeah, I was totally, I was new at this. And so like the numbers I was going, I think I've probably heard James mentioned a number, Brian mentioned number and I think I even got the feedback, uh, from somebody saying, Ahhh, that's a little low. Someone's saying, I think you'd asked for more. And I was just like, who told you you were low? Huh? Who told you you were alone? Remember? I do remember that it was a, you know, don't Brian told me I was high. Yeah. I don't remember what, uh, how we landed there. But I mean, oh, I think it really. What it was was this was my first one and now my, I totally am trying to hit nothing but like three percent appreciation. So before you picked some arbitrarily large, big jump number in order to get it was like five percent in year one instead of three and now you're using more of like a three percent appreciation over what you paid for it all in everything, all your expenses above that for a year one to. Because I remember back, I remember going through the thought process of like I want this to be a home run for my tenants and I truly believed that this was also going to be great for the tenant buyer because we are seeing like eight percent plus appreciation more. I think it ended up being in Greeley at that time and so I really thought it's like even if they executed here, like they're going to be fine. So I was being aggressive with it. I would not be that aggressive now. Okay. So you'd be less part. Yeah. It was going to be a homerun for your partners and a home run for your tenant buyer steps, correct? Yes, both. Good questionnaire. I'm going to ask you something about this to a one to a one was the purchase price as well I think. I think after I rolled in whatever concessions plus a landscaping and whatever, so I'm a little high. I'll tell you another part of the story if I remember correctly. So I had um, other clients buy properties in that neighborhood as well. And if I recall, you were buying an exact same model exactly across the street. Yeah, it comes in under a. So you had a property that the people that my other clients who were buying it across the street, and if I remember correctly, it was the same lender. Oh, same lender. Everything. Everything was the same. You're, my other client's property came in totally above asking. We're both purchase price on the appraisal and years actually came in below. Yes. So you had to come in and make up the difference on a new construction purchase. Yup. I was glad I raised more money than I needed. So that actually is a really interesting lesson. So you didn't just raise the minimum amount that you needed from your partners know? So it was a, at the very least I wanted to have five k as just backup reserves that we had there. And then in addition to that was a, I don't remember how much more, but I figured I could always return it back if we didn't need it right away, but I didn't want to. I was trying to be, I didn't want to lose this or some stupid non-conservative, you know, could play it and try to just get just the little amount of money that was needed. Did you have to put any money into the deal yourself at all? No, just no, no, no, that's not true. I think I paid for like a operating agreement and stuff like that myself, but I always assumed I was going to use that over and over again in the future. So that was my cost. So you hired an attorney to prepare your agreements for dual partnerships. You were thinking, I'm going to do more than one of these. I'll reuse that. It's a sunk cost for me. I'm not going to charge the partners exactly. You ever, it cost you approximately a thousand. Two thousand I think. Something like that. Okay. And Are you happy with your agreement because you've been using it for a little while. Do. Although the second one was my second operating agreement. Is the holy smokes too different? It's a lot different than the first one to use. And that's the one you'd use in the future? Correct. Okay. Yeah. Alright. So yeah, we're not going to go there. That's good to know. I'm aware of that. Okay. So basically you, you bought this partnership deal and then six months later you bought your owner occupants type deal where you moved into the property and you lived there for how long? How long did you live in the second owner occupant property? Single family home. That one was longer. I think I would probably push like, I don't know, 16 months or something. Why'd you wait so long to get married or something like that in between there? No, none of those. Uh, I think for me it was, I felt step was tightening up and it was trying to figure out what I was going to buy it because I was not, I was, I, my own rock was going to be in Fort Collins. I knew that much. And so, um, it was hard finding something that was meeting the criteria that I had set at the time. So I was busy. He was, yes. That's the other huge component. So part of it was a third sort of like side hustle thing that you started that you were putting in an immense amount of our work. We're, oh, regular work was, was taking the time, regular work was crazy. So at this point I'm going to a regular weekly mastermind with a bigger group of people and like it got to a point where like work was just bonkers. I was missing. I just wasn't, I wasn't going to mastermind anymore, which was a huge priority for me and I felt I even dropped out like the next day, the whole next year because I just didn't feel like I was. If I was gonna work was going to continue to be that level of commitment that I was doing a disservice to the mastermind group because part of that is being fair and being accountable, but yeah, work was extremely difficult. It's funny, you look back and you're, I think your mind just kind of like hides how busy stuff really was. But uh, it was, I think that was a huge component of it too, is just not allocating brain resource to actually getting out there and wanting to see properties and whatever else. Okay. And was your realtor like andyou calling you every day saying, hey, how come you're not buying a house? No, only subtle hints. I drop subtle hints of. I mean I'm, I'm always present. So it probably, I don't remember. Tammy says true. I get more and more hints about, uh, you know, asked me what I'm going to be engaged. So this is why I always ask you is every time I talked to my mother and I mentioned your name, she's like, has that guy married that girl yet? It's true. Gigi is all over it. She is totally right. I did get a lot of that. Oh, that's right. He'd lost his friend named Tex. I only, I only earn that back like I don't know, probably three months ago or something. So in case you guys don't know green name tags means that you're doing no matte black name tags mean that you're just a regular craig member. We appreciate you. And then read name tags are people that are expected to do work and Craig. So when you don't come to anchorage you lose your red name tag. That is true. Yeah. You don't show up at all and yeah, he lives there. Brian's taking off his name and he's like, oh, I don't have to do any more work. This is great. Okay. So, um, you basically bought your second owner occupant property. Did you buy any more partnerships or what was your next purchase? Partnership or. So in between moving to my next own rock aid, put together another partnership. So you did two partnerships after your first purchase, but before your second. No, no, no. So after the second I did my second partner duplex partnership. Your next single family home owner occupant. And then he did another partnership? Correct. Okay. And what did you do for that partnership? It looked remarkably similar to the first one. St People? Nope. Not seeing people. Um, I actually, I brought money to this one. So you were a money partner and this one I was a money partner and manager and the other person was a money partner loan. Okay. So you basically split money. It wasn't even a. no, I was not. Will you liked the majority? Are you the minority? I was the minority by a small amount. Okay. So it was like a 60 slash 40 ish sort of split. Okay. And then someone else sign for the loan? Yup. And you actually put the deal together, you found the deal, put it under contract? Correct. Do you remember where the deal was and how he found this? Yeah, I mean this was another journey. New Construction property was the plan was to do an exact replica of what I had done one year prior. So the other one must have been working out pretty well if you want it to go do another one so far. Yup. Yeah. The numbers seemed to suggest that things were going to go good and I, a lot of my questions and fears were answered.
Speaker 9:I mean the mechanics, right. I saw how it functioned and how it worked. Had an early start, rough idea. Even though I took, I think I took even more phone calls trying to land that tenant buyer. It was just crazy. But I think it was also because there are more people in the neighborhood and trying to rent and buying tenant buyers as well.
Speaker 7:So let's talk about that. So you thought that there was competition for the rent to own model in that neighborhood at the same time for you? Correct. How do you, how do you know that? How do you feel that? I mean, yeah, I think they came to class. They so they came to and Greg and you said, hey, I got a rent to own deal and blah blah blah. And they're like, I do too. And then like nine other people in the room said I do two or whatever dimension. James sells journey home's A. Yeah, I mean, yeah, they're all friends and clients so, so, so the interesting question comes up, you know, because there's some sure fear people listening, if you're in a room, did that limit your ability to do it where you were someone in the room not able to actually find their tenant buyer or find their tenant? Was there any hurt done by you competing against however many people there were? I don't even remember how many there were. I don't believe so. I don't think there was any hurt. I definitely, I did not end up putting a tenant buyer in there, so I was communicating well with my partner in that deal,
Speaker 9:but we ended up putting just normal tenants in there and it's working great. But it was, it was a tradeoff if I was, if I couldn't get a tenant buyer in there and I was advertising it for both just because I had a tighter timeline on that one. And so it was if I get too close and I don't have a tenant buyer, I'm just going to put a renter in there. So I minimize vacancy and I can go back and, you know, try again the next year if I need to.
Speaker 7:So I mean the competition thing is interesting. Right? So like if you back up to the one in riverview, right? You know, I'm doing multiple. You're doing one, it's your first partnership deal. Like what makes you not afraid in that circumstance? Because we're closing at the same time. I'm running, you know, four ads, you're running one that I'm taking 400 phone calls to find for people. Like what is it that, you know, what is it in you that goes on? It's going to be fine because I think a lot of people in the room are like, if they're like, oh my gosh, you know, if I knew that James is buying 10 houses in this neighborhood, I'm not going to go buy one that closes at the same time because then I'm competing with him on trying to find tenant buyers or tenants or whatever. Like what makes that okay
Speaker 9:in your mind for me. And I mean if, if my back's against the wall and betting on myself. Right. And so that's always been the case, I believe in what I can do and so there is no lack of just drive, like stuff will go bad, but I just push forward. Right. And it might be, I might not get somebody in there right away or I might have to take a little bit less, but it was, I was just going forward and it was, I mean, it might be blind competence, I don't know, but it's just, I don't know, that's kind of my resolve.
Speaker 7:I think that's super commendable. Right? It's like that's the grit that gets you through anything that comes your way. Right. It's like I see and you day in and day out from this and other stuff and it's awesome. Right? It's, it, it's hard to come by. So it's racist version of it.
Speaker 9:Grit interview too. And I will say that I'm not, like I view myself as lazy. I view myself as like I'm constantly on myself. I'm hard on myself about things. And you know, Jamie's always the other side saying like slow it down. But I, you know, that's part of probably a flaw. Definitely a flaw of mine, but it's insecurity more than a flaw actually. Sure. Insecurity. But I will tell you that I know how, you know, what I can get done and how much more I believe I can get done and I just, you can do it like people have more time and more energy if you just take action. And I remember, I guess I did go to one other, um, real estate kind of coaching thing. It was a very small one. Like I think we met in an office in home depot or something down in Westminster, I don't remember, but the guys, his name was like Augie by a lot was his name and I don't remember it was teaching a creative financing class and I don't know that I took any more away from it then the one I'd gone before, but he said one thing and he said, um, if you take one effective action a day, you will surprise yourself at where you're at in one year. And that like, just been always something that sticks in the back of my mind. Yeah. I think that's important.
Speaker 2:And I'll make one more comment about what you said about going to classes and only taken away one thing. You get to a point where the majority of you go into these things is just hearing Brian explained something slightly differently than what you already know or hearing someone say something about setting up a partnership that no one thought of. For example, in your partnerships moving forward, would you now tell your partners that we're not automatically going to do a lease option and that ideally we'll try and do a lease option, but if we can't find one we're going to do the backup position. Would you lead with that now and then kind of.
Speaker 9:Oh definitely, yeah, definitely pitch a different. I think I would show both, you know, more conservative and you know, aggressive estimates that way I kind of highlight the whole spectrum of where things are at. But I think that's part of it is no one, no more experience.
Speaker 2:So you did about 40 percent of the cash and you did the deal maker part of it. Do you remember what percentage of that partnership you were again?
Speaker 9:Yeah, I think that one's just a straight up 50 slash 50 split.
Speaker 2:Okay. So that's like a halfsies sort of deal when your brain in some of the money and you're basically doing the deal. Okay. Uh, what was your next purchase?
Speaker 9:So my next purchase was just a straight up owner occupant, um, se Fort Collins and at this point it was a, I am done no matting. I'm moving in, at least for now. I'm still, I still believe I can be convinced to move again, but I don't think Jamie would be convinced. So I live in really great proximity to James and Brian. Like I think I just throw a rock and hit Brian's house, like if I throw it really hard, maybe a potato, but I looked at it and you know, this was definitely a house my alright gonna lock in, stay here for a little while and then just go out and do more traditional, um, you know, 20 percent down investments and probably more partnerships.
Speaker 2:And so was it like when you were thinking about this, was it a rental property that you bought or was it a, probably that you knew you're never going to rent this one problem?
Speaker 9:Yeah, it definitely at right now it doesn't look like it would be a good rental, but five years from now might be amazing.
Speaker 2:Here's actually I'll get back to you if you want to. So here's, here's kind of my thought process. You know, you are premus nomadness, you know, you are basically the person we were meeting with talking about doing this nomad model and you sort of quasi and vet today. We've been telling people, you know, you could do this for 10 properties and we've been modeling for 10. How does primis. Nomadness ended up only doing three owner occupants and saying I'm done. I mean how does that happen and why? And should other people say, oh, maybe we should only model three or. I mean, what do you have to say about that?
Speaker 9:Yeah, I mean it's a, Hey, I'd love to keep moving. I think moving and buying the numbers make sense. It gets harder and I think we'll, we'll talk about some other stuff that I'm doing as well, but um, yeah, I mean we'll be moving forward and I think the other thing too is in combination with that, doing five percent down, I'm owner rock and then carrying loan that you have like cash flow starts to look really not fun to have to carry and uh, I think that was kind of a combination of where it's at now. So um, or I could have moved to Greeley and done something and I wasn't doing that.
Speaker 2:You will need to just add a check box in your blueprint and your calculator that says, will I be in proximity to more than one of my close friends? And that's the real nomad end. That's like, yeah, you were, you were mentioning cashflow is bad. I think that's a fear of a lot of people with nomad. Do you want to comment on that? I mean, you're putting only five percent down or three nine percent down, which I think you've refinanced a duplex. So I don't know if that's. Yeah, so the
Speaker 9:time that I, all those picks ups and stuff that I had done, I didn't think I would, you know, I was making those fixes no matter what, but I was fortunate enough that market was crazy hot and I was able to take it, refinance it, get out of that loan, take a higher interest rate, but my, you know, overall payment is now, you know,$200 a month better because I don't have pmi and you know, whatever else. So it, uh, yeah, it worked out well.
Speaker 2:So what about cash flow? I mean you were talking about five percent down. So cashflow, I mean, so if you had to choose between not doing anything
Speaker 9:thing and, and, and slash or taken some negative cash flow, I think the negative cashflow and most, most scenarios it makes sense because there are other components where you are, you know, making money. I think we talked about the four different quadrants, so you're still getting your debt pay down and really the right now we're at a point where the tax benefits really make it look awfully close to, uh, to break even. And so
Speaker 2:break even from a cashflow perspective, from a cashflow perspective. So the other, you basically are getting appreciation with what is it true cashflow, cashflow, cashflow, trademark. Um, so basically your appreciation, you're getting that, which if you're only putting five percent down and the market's going up, you know, 10 percent a year, it's ridiculous. But let's say it only goes up three percent a year. It looked prettier, getting 20 times three percent or 60 percent. If my math is correct, per year in appreciation, benefit, return on investment. And then you're getting debt, pay down debt, pay down, it's like 11 percent per year when you're only putting five percent down on the left, right? And then the, you set basically with the cashflow and the depreciation, the tax benefits are. But you're about break even there.
Speaker 9:Yeah. So the numbers still look better than what you could certainly do in the stock market.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you're comparing this to, hey listen, I've got all this money in my 401k or whatever you're doing, you're trying to maximize that. Which by the way, we, we recommend your lawyer does that.
Speaker 9:I do that, like go get the match to go open an IRA like max it out. That's what I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then this is in addition, you're basically owner occupied properties until you get tired of moving in. And even with that, even with break even or slightly negative cashflow because basically you're, you're funding it because you didn't come up with 20 percent down the other way of looking at it. Right? And then your, your return from the other two areas, the appreciation and the
Speaker 9:debt pay down our, you know, 70 percent or something ridiculous like that. And that's, I mean, that's the reality, right? And I think James, I always think when James says that you're financing your down payment, I, I really do view it like that. And I think again, getting out there, getting a property that you control, that you manage, um, it just made you're prepared and you're actually doing it. You're not just theorizing what it is and it's going to be that much better in the future. And you happen to have this benefit of, you know, catching the appreciation debt, pay down tax benefits. All of the things, you actually out there doing it and so I think it, uh, you know, it's certainly still makes sense now for myself. I'm fortunate enough that, you know, I'll wait a little bit, I'll either go start, do partnerships or I'll go put 20 percent down and try to lock some stuff up myself in the short term. Um, but man, it's still, I mean, Jamie's done with moving, but I, like I said, show me the numbers. I could probably be convinced and I, and James and Brian might like actually say no. You have to stay. Yeah. Did you run into any a loan or problems get troubles getting alone when you're. Or your second and your third rock a as you had the, you know, the other, the, uh, the, uh, other investment and the one. Yeah. So I've always been after the second property, it's been closer. But, uh, one of the things of getting started is that lenders will take your, you know, your tax returns that have rental income on them and that starts to start counting that towards your earned income. Right? And so it offsets the, you know, that debt that you have. And so I've found, I was fortunate with the duplex, right my very first year I had rental income and so when I showed him a signed the lease on the second one, it just went straight to it. And so getting loans became much easier because I was never saddled with the full chunk. Um, now I know there's a new property I have and I was like real close so it definitely becomes a problem and you have to make sure you do the math and have just work with your lenders. I mean, I think people, uh, I don't think people take that seriously enough, but like a good lender and somebody who can keep you on track and make sure you're not screwing up doing things, um, that will take you off this path is really important. And I think we're very lucky. I think Patrick does a great job. Um, I recommend Patrick, but I've, I've never actually closed a loan with them. I've recommended my own family to him, but he just has a aligned so far, but he does a really good job and I recommended I sent tenant potential tenant buyers to them to make sure that they are going to be able to qualify for like a tenant buyer deal. So He's been really good too. So what was your next deal? Uh, so next deal is a single family home. I'm not great looking. Cashflow mainly found, you know, got a good deal. I'm kind of at the current deal. Okay. So let's talk about that. So you had, you find this one, you should have really good, uh, show up to class every week and go out to dinner with James every now and then and you know, being present ultimately in James brought, brought the deal on a very quick phone call and I had to make a decision faster than I was. This was the kind of the. It was one of those moments where I realized that like years of experience finally clicked. And so I get on the phone with James says, Hey, I think the first thing he said, do you like money? And I went, yeah,
Speaker 7:that is the first thing I said yesterday, how's it going? Do you like money? Yeah. And I was like, yeah. And so he tells me about deal and I go, I hang up the phone and I'm like walking back and forth trying to figure out like how am I going to get this, what I, what I told you was this is probably going to go pretty quickly and that you should make a decision. Whatever you decide is fine with me, but you should make a decision and then call me back and if I'm on the other line, call Tammy and tell her you want it so that it's gone.
Speaker 9:Yeah. And I don't think when he said that, I don't think I registered, you know, go quick. Like I don't know how much time, what's quick, like a daze, like could be the quick. And so I'm sitting in my living room, like thinking about. And I have family in town, they're sitting in the other room and I'm trying, I'm like, how am I going to get this deal done? And then I'm like, what am I doing? I can get the deal done. Call James Back and said, you know, put it under contract now because somebody out there that he's calling next is probably buying them all
Speaker 7:so that, that wasn't what happened. You called, you tried to call me. I was on the other one and you called Tammy and instead of telling Tammy, I want the deal. What'd you say to her? Have James Call me back. Right? Which really what I meant by that was I'm putting under contract. Hey Tammy, read my mind and go do that. Hurry. By the way, we don't automatically assume you say you mean put it under contract. When you say, call me back back.
Speaker 9:Yeah. I knew what my intention was, but I knew that I was just going to talk to you. And then uh, yeah, Tammy's, my first call from now on, James was on the phone. So you call me back. What do I tell you? It's gone. I'll tell you, the deal is gone. And so when somebody, somebody work magic and found another. So you're under contract on that deal. Under contract. Okay. So, so that's the last one. And Are you bringing in partners for that one? I'm not going to buy that one solo. You're not going to own or occupy not going to owner occupies 20 percent down. Twenty percent down. Okay. Uh, any of your lease option tenant buyers cash you out yet? No. So the first one, um, when oil kind of dipped slightly out in Greeley and 2016, um, he lost his job and ended up moving to Las Vegas. Um, was a super great tenant. Um, you know, and he did he an option
Speaker 2:fee. How much was the option fee is 5,000. So it wasn't, you know, huge amounts, but it was significant. How long have you lived there? A year. So he basically forfeited$400 a month in cashflow idiots. Right. So, so if you guys are worried about whether or not properties cashflow and somebody is willing to walk away from a$5,000 option fee, that's like getting$400 more in cash flow. Right. And we're not trying to go and put people in there that can't succeed, we're not doing that. That is not the intention. But people's situations change and they will voluntarily say I don't want to buy. And could they buy? And actually there would have been enough equity in there for them to make money. Yes. So they could have closed on it and actually resold it and made money, but opted not to do that. I don't think that's true. So didn't have. You didn't have enough equity that would not have had enough equity for them to have bought it. And then have paid a realtor their fees and everything. We'll put all this money. So you're, you're really aggressive pricing basically prohibited them from doing that. If it had been three percent, would they have been able to make money? No, we break even close. Yeah, something like that with the realtor fees and everything. Like if they were not going to use realtor fees, they could've made money. Brian says they would made money money, they would have bought it immediately. Resolve even with an agent. Brian says that they would have made 14,000 if they in the year I bought it and immediately resold it even if they had to pay an agent. And Brian is very familiar with this deal. Yeah, it's been a while since I looked through the numbers. So anyways, apparently yes. Okay. And so did the other one. Did you have a. You have a regular tenant in there, right? Correct. Yeah. Regular. No other tenant buyers that had he been a possibility of, of cashing out now did you replace the tenant buyer with another tenant of buyer? I do not put tenants in there for the last two years, the third year now. So how much money did you invest on all of your investments in real estate to date? Do you remember? Like approximately, right? I don't know. A couple of three and a half. Three and a half percent. Down to five percent downs and then like maybe 40 percent of it. And then you're going to do another 20 percent down. Yeah. So of probably be somewhere in the 150,000 range or something. So all in everything combined, saving over the last whatever years with engineering type income, you're able to put in about 150 into your investments. What do you think you have in just total real estate value? And then we'll do equity next real estate value. Like what are the, if you add all the properties you own up, what do you think they're worth? Brian? Uh, and by the way, if these are uncomfortable, you don't have to answer. I just, we went through your property. So I thought it was inappropriate thing. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Probably one point five. Somewhere in there. Yes. With that one in there. So Brian seems to think having done the math and Brian is familiar with all these deals, so he thinks it's about one point five in total real estate value. And what do you think you have in equity? Right? I'll be honest, I haven't been
Speaker 9:and done the math on that, but I would guess uh,
Speaker 10:don't know another thing
Speaker 2:Brian just asked if you had the Smith of real estate owned sheet to the lender that he's using for the current one.
Speaker 9:Yeah, but I guess I. Okay. So are you asking total equity from, from like what I believe after values have gone up and every.
Speaker 2:Sure. Yeah, I mean basically what's basically one point five. What do you know that, what do you owe approximately? And we can kind of figure it out. You don't know?
Speaker 9:I don't have to think about that.
Speaker 2:Brian is going to actually do some math. I mean we know all the down payments and he knows what the kind of the values are. Brian will actually figure it out and he'll tell us in a minute. Right. So, so what do you think, like looking back now, someone who wants to sort of be the next mr x, coming in, going to college, kind of doing this, would you recommend your path? Would you recommend differences? What do you think?
Speaker 9:I always thought even my brother, I have trouble giving him this answer like a, you know, big brother trying to give them advice and I struggled to tell him like this is what you should go do because I think we all have our own paths and you know, I truly believe like the math suggests that you should do this, but time give me 30 years and I'll tell you other, this is the path that you should take
Speaker 2:and that's really fair, right? Because you don't have 30 years of experience looking back and even if you did the 30 years' experience that you have could be very different than the 30 years' experience moving forward that someone else who was young would have. Right? Because I mean the market could be very different than your previous 30 years. So it's, it's really hard to give advice like that going forward and I think that's a really fair response,
Speaker 9:right? Yeah, right. I think that is the case, but the things I will tell you is invest in educating yourself. Figure out where you can take action and find a if find areas where you can be like you, you feel like you have control of the deck I guess. And if you have a way to minimize your down, then you should take the bed.
Speaker 2:Where are the. Brian and I are having a side conversation about his number of equity and I don't think it's possible. Oh, okay. That actually may be. It's close to that. So based on Brian's really rough math and go nuts. These are, I don't even know the number. He doesn't. They were telling him stuff basically become hot seat first bag needs to talk to me, let them know. So I mean let's really, really rough math. We can do this. Just average your down payment. So you know, to 50 for the first one, 200 for the second one. That's for 50. Well you don't own the whole thing on that one. So you rough that number?
Speaker 10:Yeah, I basically said that is because there's other money down and he doesn't own the whole thing, but I didn't take that into account to ignore the partners and discuss.
Speaker 2:Okay. So 2:50 on the first one, I think the other one is like 300 I think we said. So that's 50 slash 50 there. And then the new one you own is the new owner occupants. Like my little whatever it is for ish or something, right. He really the owner one. Oh on a rocky. Yeah. So that's like, you know there and then you have a couple of partnership ones
Speaker 10:for equity.
Speaker 2:Okay. So based on, based on that, Brian is estimating, it's probably around 600 k inequity and that 1:50 of it was something that you put in. So that's since when February, I'm sorry, a 2014. So it's now 2018 at almost halfway through the year. A little bit more than halfway through the year. So over four years you were able to triple your money
Speaker 10:and honestly the biggest investment is still happening. There's no growth in that. So you could take the one that he's about to do out of that and I mean that in itself is 60 1:50 that he's talking about. So it's really 90 k to get the majority of that equity because there's only 60 gain equity.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that's a good point. So Brian was saying off Mike was the one who is buying now solo. The investment you're riding now with 20 percent down is like$70,000 or whatever it is. That is it. But that's yeah, that's all the. That's largely all the equity in the property and so really you've only got like$90,000 from all of your other investments combined and you've got probably 500,000 or so, probably a little bit more than that. Inequity from there. So you really went for more like 100 in to 500 hours, which is like almost five times or four times your investment by attempts you investment something like that in for you in four years. So if you use that and you're, you know, you're doing your stock market stuff or your, you know, your company things as well, that's a pretty good supplement to it. And you know, it could go the other way. Markets have been going up for a while. The next one you buy could be a down year, two or three or whatever it is. And so if the market goes down, are you concerned about that
Speaker 7:on the properties that I own? One, you're concerned about the property going down in value on one of them. If the market all wind down? Yeah, sure. Who wouldn't feel good? Which one? Which one is the current one I'm buying.
Speaker 2:Wonder you're buying if the market goes down. Sure. Because it's the most. Is it the most recent one or what makes that one so hard?
Speaker 7:Most recent flow. More expensive than what I would typically buy. Like 20 percent down. Yeah, totally different deal. Like it is. It is a naughty cashflow play. I made a decision so I, I use the property managers on all the ones that I own. One hundred percent myself. My partnerships are mine.
Speaker 2:So with your property management, I didn't realize this with your property management, the numbers you gave us before we. You said it's about break even with depreciation editing. Is that before or after property management? That's before property. So basically you're saying you are way negative when you calculate it and that you're paying a property manager. Correct. Okay. So all the numbers you told us before we were about break even, you're saying that is if I've managed to myself, which you are not correct. So you're willing because I'm assuming you have other things to do that you think are higher dollar per hour. Correct. You're willing to pay a property manager that fee and be way negative. Yup. Because you think you can do something else. Well, yeah, it is pretty when negative. Right? Yeah. Okay. That's pretty interesting. Yeah. So, uh, I don't know where I was going with making that initial comment, but uh, yeah. Okay. Uh, any questions for, for Royce? I think we've kind of covered most of what I intended to cover. Was there anything that you thought we should covered? Let's talk about side hustle or anything like that. Oh yeah. So basically I'm one of the, shortly after I think the, uh, owner occupant purchase your, your second owner occupant purchase. There was a fourplex that came up on the market. I think it might've been before my second owner rock because I was considering moving in there. Okay. So it was before your second owner occupant purchase and so there was a fourplex in loveland.
Speaker 9:I came on the market. I just, I went down to Pueblo to feed my family. I'm Jamie brother with me. I think my brother was out like super late that night and I james calls me or no, I think it came on the market. Saw this fourplex and this was in 2015. August 2014.
Speaker 2:Oh, this would've been my first one I was looking at ever taken down. So this was your first deal? It was even before the duplex. That's what it, yeah. If it was August 2014. So wait a minute. So did I call you or did you look at email?
Speaker 9:I'm pretty sure I got a, I think I was driving down to Pueblo and I saw a, you know, my site alert and I'm like I don't even have to have this. I've analyzed a lot of deals already by this point and trying to figure out what looks good and it pops up in flight. I might be buying a fourplex, but it was at the time way more expensive than like I thought 250,000 was a lot and I think like fourplex was at the time like 335,000 or something.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I didn't call you and any other clients in the room, do I normally call you? Is it normal for me to pick up the phone and call know what is the majority of the way that you find the us? My sight. You look at emails that you get yourself right and they're not like personally males for me where it says, Hey Royce, you missed this one. It's the automated emails that you're finding the lawsuit. Is that correct? That's
Speaker 9:correct. And I, and I'll be honest, I mean James get the copy of every one of these emails and it really boosts his email count stats. So he's always happy to do this. So I constantly have alerts coming from him, whether I'm in the market to buy or not because you don't know when something is going to come on, that is a deal that fits your criteria and you need to figure out a way to take action and I always am ready to pull the trigger if need be and I will figure out how to make it happen. And so I think that was the, that was definitely a much. That was a bigger deal and I was going to try to owner occupied owner occupy it and it was, it's not a bad area when I look at it now, but it was definitely would have been harder to want to own or on.
Speaker 2:It's an unusual property when you approach it. I mean when you're there you're like, this is kind of weird. This of setup and stuff like that.
Speaker 9:Property itself was Nice. It was like the surrounding neighborhood where you're just like, I don't know if I want to live here. Not turns out it's fine. I just was new and not, you know, I live in Lily White, port collins.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So basically you decided to contact me and say, hey look, I'm interested in seeing this. Can I see it that I've seen it already?
Speaker 9:I don't think you had made. We probably had somewhere in between that time. I think I was in the car on the way to see it with him. Well voice was calling me. It was tight, right? I mean it was. And I think your comment was that I think they wanted offers in quickly and so I think we literally went down, saw my family for a little bit, like turned back around, drove all the way back up in loveland. I remember this I, my tyler, I'll tell you this story. He was out that night. My brother is like the one of the most responsible kid ever. He's taken care of all of his drunk friends and stuff. They were at the state fair and he gets thrown up on it. So he meets James for the very first time, like, because I picked him up that morning. I'm like knocking on his door like we gotta go and he, he shows up, meets James with like coupon his leg. And he's like, I didn't go to sleep until like six this morning and it's 7:15. So that was kind of commitment to try to find out what.
Speaker 2:Okay. So you like, you go and look at the property and I'll tell you it's probably going to be multiple offers because it's a multifamily property. And so did I tell you, hey look, this is the number you need to be because I've got other clients doing that or what, that's not what I do. No, I don't think you need to disclose those. That's what I want people to hear from you because they don't believe me all the time. No, definitely not. I think we,
Speaker 9:I'm trying to remember whether it was, you know, I don't, I, I doubt at this point I said, yeah, sure. Tell whoever your client is. This was very early on and so it was just had to try to figure it out. And if for me this was a stretch, right? It was like, I think I said 250,000 was like mindblowing, go into 3:35 was like I am pushing my budget and one of the things I am pretty set on right as I have an idea of where I'm at with my comfort level is. And I really try to stick to those bounds as much as possible. And so this was like really pushing it, but it was so good to go look at the deal and analyze it and figure out what the, you know, what it would take to really take down a property like this. And uh, I think Brian always talks about stretching your comfort zone and that totally did that. I think we went through all the steps as if we were going to submit an offer anyways on this one. Yeah, on this one. Okay. And then we, I don't think we submitted it, but
Speaker 2:do you happen to remember what it was listed for him when it. So far? Yeah. So I figured you were doing was listed
Speaker 7:at three, 25, all brick fourplex in loveland where you need to do better one bat to a garden level. If so, these sac all details. You don't need to know what was the price? Three, 25. And so it was listed for three, 25. It's still for three 65. Did I know who bought it? Who bought it?
Speaker 9:I think uh, when we looked at or when I was looking at, I knew it was under and so I'm trying to remember. I think I was trying to like gauge James and I was like, is it 30 k over? And I think it was like, I think it's going to take more than that and I was just like, I can't
Speaker 7:possibly go there. So I don't remember saying it. I don't think I don't, it's not how I say things, but yes, I don't need to be aggressive because I think that's, that was a known thing with multiple offers.
Speaker 9:Right. And I think we, I think I had already at that point and been like, this is already a lot. And then how am I going to bring 30 or$40,000 over? And I think it was, I can't remember if I was already pushing up on Fha limits at the time and everything else. And it was just like, I can't remember if I did or not.
Speaker 7:I know we went through the whole process. Yeah. Tammy, you can go find out. I may have submitted an offer. One other question that came up in my mind is how many offers have you made that you did not get it
Speaker 9:property? Not a lot.
Speaker 7:Not a lot. So you've had a really high success rate. You're not doing what they teach about making 100 offers and getting one except.
Speaker 9:No, I mean A. we're in a hot hot market, right? So the discounts are you really getting are slim. And when you are looking at the numbers, right? Like five K, if you're trying to come under five k or five k like that amounts in the noise. They go when and go put in an aggressive offer and get the deal. Because if you come in, break even and then you lose the deal. And then you are, I mean, you're going to spend more time threatened about that and like regretting that decision versus just coming in and saying, I can afford this deal, can afford it. Go right. I mean, don't be dumb about it. I mean, make sure you are doing your homework and know what the deal can support, but then go play aggressive. That's fair.
Speaker 7:Any final questions for wasted as uh, it's been about two hours, so definitely appreciate you, uh, answering those questions. Anyone have anything final they'd like to ask him?
Speaker 9:He an open book.
Speaker 7:What's my, what was, what was the question? What was the question? Oh, so the question is, are you going to marry the girl? That is correct. We heard it here first. If you're not here, so I can, you know, save whatever she's gonna to listen to the recording. Hey, she, she'd have to go find it. She's not going to do that. She's like, Oh, send it back this time. Holly, just cut out that section and send it to the wrong. Oh, we got. Well we got a question again.
Speaker 9:Back go nuts. I think Brian said
Speaker 7:side hustle, so I'll talk about that too.
Speaker 8:Uh, well, two questions really. I didn't quite understand the deal where you didn't have the partner financing but you still got the property under contract. I was wondering what happens then if you don't get your partners signed up and then kind of the easier question. Have you ever tried to sell the house to a regular tenant who was just interested in buying but had moved in? It's regular. Yeah.
Speaker 7:All uh, so to answer your first question, um, as far as I mean it dope. If I didn't close it I couldn't get the financing in place. I was going to lose earnest money. Right. How much money was, I think it was like 3000 or something. So it wasn't like a huge amount. Um, but it, we didn't want to. I didn't want to lose it, that's for sure. Don't like don't discount that. But I, I believed I would be able to do it. Right. If for some reason you couldn't find partners, could you stretch yourself and make that deal happen? Did you have like, cashed out of, you know, your 401k or whatever you needed to do to come up with that money? I think I believed that that was, that was the case. So if I had to take it down I could have figured it out yet, like a fallback position should. He really needed to do it, but it would have been painful. Um, yeah. And then as far as the second, I've never tried to sell to a current tenant. Um, I mean I, it looks a whole lot like exiting a lease option essentially or selling a for sale by owner type thing. So I haven't done it though. So we had one question. We had one discussion last week with Brian's interview, uh, were Brian talked about being heavily invested in Microsoft stock, seeing the stock run up really high and being like almost ready to retire and then like, you know, over the next six months or whatever, the stock declined to whatever it was, half or a third or quarter or whatever it was for those that have, you know, stock options or you know, company stock that they're buying and they are heavily invested in that, you know, what is your thought process as someone who's young and this sort of seeing this, about the risk you see with that or the not the risk that you see with it of doing it? I mean, what is your thinking on that? I mean, I've written a wave up very nicely, a broad comment at Wago that stock has gone up a lot, but, uh, I mean I have Brian just like always like, hey, you sell some stock, you sell some stock, you sell from stock. So, you know, I'm now coming to a point where I'm like nearing expiration of options and stuff like that. And that's now my tax tax situation looks ugly because it's like, oh, I need to get out of these and you know, in the next couple of years, which isn't a, the funnest thing in the world to do. But I wrote it up. I probably, I mean pretty much ever. I think the fidelity called and talked to me one day and they're like, even the bullish of bowls are out at this point, like to get out. So.
Speaker 2:So if you happen to get married, the tax implications of some of this stuff actually improves just a hypothetical hypothetical situation. Right. Any other final question? Jamie? I think Jamie has tried to use that as a leverage point before your question.
Speaker 3:No, it's a comment about the marriage. So Zack and I dated for 11 years now. I'm at 11 years. We got married last month and I was the one that was badgering him about it, but I don't think we would have had it any other way. And most of I think why he proposed was because I got into the real estate stuff with him. So I say ignore all of these people.
Speaker 9:Oh yeah, no, it's uh, it's fun, a fun badgering at this point, but yeah, I get it. I'd love to discuss that with you someday.
Speaker 2:Okay. Another question. Oh, here's another recently married person commenting about the waiting 11 years.
Speaker 3:Um, so it sounds like you're still working full time. Is that
Speaker 9:very much fulltime working plan to stay there, do a great job there for at least a a while, but I think Brian, now, Brian, I'm happy to discuss this. So part of what I think I started mentioned like putting properties under property management and doing those things is uh, you know, I definitely am, it's tight on time and I talked about maybe wholesaling earlier on and I thought about how can I generate more income to ultimately supplement my ability to buy additional properties and I ended up running across Amazon Fba. Um, so I think I can't, must be, it was like late. Yeah, this happened early 2016. I think I finally actually got going. I'm like mid 2016, um, and started up an Amazon business. Um, and luckily, you know, I, I was the one who introduced Brian to it. He took action sooner than I did and laid out like a nice roadmap of where to get started essentially because I had a different plan when I initially went into it, but that has turned into, you know, a great side hustle. It keeps me very busy. It keeps myself busy, keeps Jamie busy. We're going to hire our first full time virtual assistant. I'm literally in like a week, she'll go full time. Um, and that is now a very viable stream of income for us that we're going all in on. So I think I mentioned early earlier that, you know, I have a lot of things going on, but when I go into each one I invest heavily in drive into it and that's. And I'm doing that part of the reason I said I couldn't wholesales having that full time job. This enables me to work. I get up in the morning, I worked the first few hours before work, go to work, come home in the evening, hammer out, you know, everything until 11, 12:00 at night, rinse, repeat, do it over again, working off.
Speaker 2:And this is the stuff that people don't see, right? This is the, Oh, I have an Amazon has Amazon business and it makes this much money, but they don't see that you get up at five or six and do three hours of work at home than go work a full time job and then come home and work four or five more hours on the business six or seven days a week. Right. That's the missing piece that I think it's super important to understand. It doesn't just happen. You put the effort and you put the time and work into it.
Speaker 9:Definitely. I think, uh, I think having hustle in like a sense of urgency matters. And I, for me, it comes down to, you know, we're going to want to have kids sometime in the future and everybody I see, it's like kids are a major time suck and it's like I want to try to get as much established and going before that time so I can have more time to spend with them. You know, in the future.
Speaker 2:Yeah, life is hard at some point. It's either hard early and you can actually take it a little bit easier later or it's hard for a very long period of time later. Right. So you can decide not to do your hustle now and just pay for it for the rest of your life or you can work really, really hard now. Get up early, stay up late, do all this stuff you're supposed to do so that it's a little bit easier later on for a longer period of time. Yeah. On the reverse of that, do you get as much enjoyment out of your side hustle is that other people seem to get from there.
Speaker 9:I love it. I think Brian and I were just talking about this. Jamie asked me the other day if I had all the money that I ever wanted when I retire and the answer to that is no for me. Right. I'm, I might be, I think Tim ferriss talks about taking, you know, little mini mini vacations or many retirements and you take a little bit of time off and then you're back at it and that is totally me if I, I'm not the person who can go to the beach and kick back and relax like couple hours of that and I'm already like, come on God to do something
Speaker 2:or else I know you go to Mexico, go to the beach.
Speaker 9:That was fun. I didn't sit at the beach either. I wanted to go explore Jamie or James thought he was gonna lose his kidneys in the middle of a causal now like the safest island ever
Speaker 2:because you brought us into this really sketchy part of town. Took us to the Barrio. He called it the body. Oh yeah. Even the taxi drivers, like what do you do and go in here.
Speaker 9:Yeah. But no. So I mean, I do enjoy it and I think, um, I think so. I think people, I guess there's a couple things I want to touch on. People try to like avoid stress and hard work and I, I loved that. I think, I think humans as humans, we were designed to be in a stressful scenario, right? We are one of the few systems that's antifragile, right? You get stronger under more stress and I think that allows you, if you put yourself through that you grow, you teach yourself, you a lot about yourself
Speaker 7:and it makes you better for the future. And I think I, there's like a movie or something. I remember it was like a, I think, I can't remember what movie was it. He was like Angelina Jolie, you are. She's like training an assassin. But on the gun it was inscribed in Latin, but it said victory loves preparation and it's, I remember seeing that like in high school, I don't know why that stuck so much, but I wanted, wanted probably that seems right. I watch a lot of TV every, a lot of books. Yeah, that's right. I do, I've already admitted it. This is not a surprise. I've probably read 50 plus books a year and I have for 20 years, but I probably watch that many movies if not more like way more. There was a time when I had the Netflix subscription were getting in the mail. My goal was to turn the desk every night so that I always had something. Yeah. But you know, I. So I do enjoy it. I think that doing hard things is important to. And I find enjoyment in that and I think I've done cold showers and if you've never done that, that's a really good test of willpower everyday. Wake up, crank that showers cold. It goes, get in there for 10 minutes. It sucks. But man it does. It trains some like mental resiliency and making yourself do things that you don't like, but it's type of person. I am. I'm always trying to work on improve myself, learn. I'm always reading some type of book that it's given me new ideas of things to do and test and try. Um, but just be hungry, be excited for change, embrace it, and lean in. How do you think about the one thing we didn't talk about, I don't want to end on this note, but how do you think about failure and setbacks and like where, like where have those occurred because I think that's important that like what your mindset is about failure, right? Right. Yeah. So this is, have you had failure too? I think so. Part of what drives me is, is fear there. There's no doubt about it. Right? And so, um, I think you should have a healthy amount of fear and failure does scare me, but, um, the actions I take today, I do believe whether I fail or not will lead to a better me in the future and that taking the bet makes sense. Right? Um, and so failure isn't a, I'm going to do everything I can not to fail, just period to talk about this. We talked about the idea of you can fail but just don't fail out of the gate. Don't fail out of it. I think he did address that earlier and you know, I think we're going to cover that a lot. That classroom you teach on eve and and things like that, so we'll, we'll kind of cover a lot of that, but I will tell you that the fear of failure does not stop me from taking action. If I believe in what I'm doing, I'm going to go after it and it might. It will be. That sounds very like bold and brash way. I'm just going to run in. There's going to be like a lot of reading and then you just go right at some point it's not. I mean you either can choose to sit back and do nothing and you're going to learn nothing from it. And so I mean, the reason you're thinking about so much as probably believe it is going to work. Right? And if it makes you uncomfortable, it's probably the right thing to do. And I've tried to rely on that instinct. Just lean into that a little bit. Awesome. Well thanks again for coming. I do appreciate everyone and feel free to stick around for the class after class. Let's give a to that roundup process.
Speaker 4:Thank you very much for coming.