Branding Matters

How to Curate Your Own Content with Shama Hyder

September 23, 2022 Branding Badass Episode 72
How to Curate Your Own Content with Shama Hyder
Branding Matters
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Branding Matters
How to Curate Your Own Content with Shama Hyder
Sep 23, 2022 Episode 72
Branding Badass

Send us a Text Message.

My guest today is Shama Hyder, the CEO of Zen Media – a global marketing and digital PR firm. 

Shama is known around the world as  “a visionary strategist for the digital age”.  She’s a web and TV personality, a bestselling author, and has been named the “Zen Master of Marketing” by Entrepreneur Magazine and the “Millennial Master of the Universe” by FastCompany.com. And as if that’s not impressive enough, Shama has also been honoured at both the White House and The United Nations as one of the top 100 young entrepreneurs in the U.S.

I invited Shama to be a guest on my show to talk about the NEW Generation of consumers - better known as “Gen-Z”. I wanted to learn how brands are building connections with this generation.  And I was curious to get her POV on the best way to curate content on social media.

𝗕𝗿𝗮𝗻𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗠𝗮𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗶𝘀 𝗯𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝘁𝗼 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗯𝘆 𝗚𝗲𝗻𝘂𝗺𝗮𝗿𝗸 - 𝗢𝗻𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗡𝗼𝗿𝘁𝗵 𝗔𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗰𝗮’𝘀 𝗺𝗼𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗿𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗰𝗵 𝗺𝗮𝗸𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝟰𝟬 𝘆𝗲𝗮𝗿𝘀.
From promotional products, custom uniforms, and clothing, to sports co-branding, web stores and warehousing - Genumark is your #1 partner for creating brand awareness. And being ISO certified – you can rest assured ethical sourcing and sustainability are front and centre. If you’re looking for help  with your next project, email brandingmatters@genumark.com

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a 5-star rating along with a brief review. And don't forget to order your BADASS T-shirt here.

About Me
Hey there, I'm Joelly - the Branding Badass. My badass superpower is helping you build a brand that matters. From branded merch to brand consulting, when you work with me, you get results!

Need help telling your brand story?
Learn more
here.

To advertise on the show
click here

Let's stay connected!
instagram - @Branding_Badass
linkedIn - Joelly Goodson
website - BrandingMatters.ca

Show Notes Transcript

Send us a Text Message.

My guest today is Shama Hyder, the CEO of Zen Media – a global marketing and digital PR firm. 

Shama is known around the world as  “a visionary strategist for the digital age”.  She’s a web and TV personality, a bestselling author, and has been named the “Zen Master of Marketing” by Entrepreneur Magazine and the “Millennial Master of the Universe” by FastCompany.com. And as if that’s not impressive enough, Shama has also been honoured at both the White House and The United Nations as one of the top 100 young entrepreneurs in the U.S.

I invited Shama to be a guest on my show to talk about the NEW Generation of consumers - better known as “Gen-Z”. I wanted to learn how brands are building connections with this generation.  And I was curious to get her POV on the best way to curate content on social media.

𝗕𝗿𝗮𝗻𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗠𝗮𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗶𝘀 𝗯𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝘁𝗼 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗯𝘆 𝗚𝗲𝗻𝘂𝗺𝗮𝗿𝗸 - 𝗢𝗻𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗡𝗼𝗿𝘁𝗵 𝗔𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗰𝗮’𝘀 𝗺𝗼𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗿𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗰𝗵 𝗺𝗮𝗸𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝟰𝟬 𝘆𝗲𝗮𝗿𝘀.
From promotional products, custom uniforms, and clothing, to sports co-branding, web stores and warehousing - Genumark is your #1 partner for creating brand awareness. And being ISO certified – you can rest assured ethical sourcing and sustainability are front and centre. If you’re looking for help  with your next project, email brandingmatters@genumark.com

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a 5-star rating along with a brief review. And don't forget to order your BADASS T-shirt here.

About Me
Hey there, I'm Joelly - the Branding Badass. My badass superpower is helping you build a brand that matters. From branded merch to brand consulting, when you work with me, you get results!

Need help telling your brand story?
Learn more
here.

To advertise on the show
click here

Let's stay connected!
instagram - @Branding_Badass
linkedIn - Joelly Goodson
website - BrandingMatters.ca

Joelly Goodson :

Hi I'm Joelly the Branding Badass. Welcome to Branding Matters - a podcast I created and host to help you create brand equity. Branding Matters is brought to you by Genumark - one of of North America's most trusted branded merch makers for over 40 years. Do you know branded merchandise is one of the best ways to create brand awareness? It's true. Whether with your team or your fans, there's no better way to show your appreciation, connect with your audience and build community, than by combining thoughtful design with great products that tell your brand story. When you partner with Genumark you get more! More personalized service, more creativity, more innovative solutions. And more importantly, you get it all from a talented team of branding experts who have the experience and know how to make your job easier and best of all more fun. From promotional products, custom uniforms and clothing to sports co branding, web stores and warehousing, Genumark makes it happen. And being ISO certified, you can rest assured knowing ethical sourcing and sustainability are front and center. Genumark is big enough to matter, but small enough to care. So if you're looking for the right partner to help you create brand awareness, email brandingmatters@genumark.com to start your next project today. That's branding matters at g e n u m a r k.com. My guest today is Shama Hyder, the CEO of Zen Media - a global marketing and digital PR firm. Shama is known around the world as a visionary strategist for the digital age. She's a web and TV personality, a best-selling author. And she's been named the Zen Master of Marketing by Entrepreneur Magazine, and Millennial Master of the Universe by fast company.com. And as if that's not impressive enough, Shama has also been honored at both the White House and the United Nations as one of the top 100 young entrepreneurs in the US. I invited Shama to be a guest on my show today to talk about the new generation of consumers, known as Gen Z. I want to learn how brands are building connections with this new generation. And I was curious to get your point of view on the role media plays and building a brand. Sharma. Welcome to Branding Matters!

Shama Hyder:

Thank you so much. Joelly. I'm excited to finally get to do this with you.

Joelly Goodson :

Oh, I know. Me too. I know we've had a quite a few hiccups, but we finally made it. Well, let's get right into it. Because we have tons to cover. And I'm really excited to have you here. Is it fair to say that you're a millennial? I am? Yeah. Okay. For whatever reasons, sometimes I think millennials get a bad rap for I don't know why. Why do you think millennials get a bad rap or used to get a bad rap?

Shama Hyder:

I don't know. I mean, everybody knows Gen Z is

Joelly Goodson :

I just I just, I know, I just threw everybody the worst. because everybody thinks the next generation is the worst. I'm Gen X, FYI. So let's talk about millennials and people between the ages of 1980 are born between 1980 and 1996. So I know that they were described as the Uber generation, right, that's one term. That's a positive term. I know there's been some other terms, let's talk because we want to I want to focus on business and on branding, specifically. So what did brands have to do differently when millennials entered into the workforce? I know you you're a lot of your specialty is about millennials and helping brands appeal to that generation. So what did they have to do differently when the millennial started to become the main consumers?

Shama Hyder:

Millennials is an interesting group, because they were the first group that were, you know, also considered digital natives. So group, which generation grew up with technology, I mean, Gen Z even more, but it was really Millennials so that entering the workplace did create the first I would say, first layer of conflict, first layer of kind of wanting to do things a different way. Again, every generation has its own way of doing things. But here, you have often a war between a generation that is very just even tech savvy, but has a different expectation of how the world works too often in workplaces, where things were very status quo, or this is how we've always done it. So you would hear from Millennials things like I just want to stapler but I have to fill out 10 forms to get a stapler, like that kind of bureaucracy and red tape. You saw a lot of bucking against if you will, right. But here's the interesting thing. What starts as a quote unquote, millennial trend or a Gen Z trend, it really becomes mainstream culture very quickly. You look at tick tock, you look at Facebook, these platforms all started out for a subgroup. You know, Facebook started when I was in college and was only open to college students. So and then eventually opened up Tik Tok. Of course, we were like, oh, it's all young people. No, not really. But that's how it started. It started out for a younger culture a younger audience speak. But all of that is eventually becomes mainstream. You know that that comes into where we are.

Joelly Goodson :

Do you have you heard the term challenger brands? Do you know about challenger brands, I had Adam Morgan actually who he didn't coined the term, but he actually popularized right to term challenger brand. And he gave a really great story, which I think is basically what you were talking about as well where talked about a millennial who challenged it. And when I when I order pizza, instead of having to dial up a pizza place and give my information, I wish there was something that I could just click on my phone and tap, tap. And then next thing I know, my pizza shows up, right? And I mean, look at the app, I mean, apps exploded, and it was the millennials that created all these apps. So I think in my observation, where brands really change was with millennials is appealing to them in that sort of ease and speed of things. And you know, keeping it simple. And that's why the Uber generation Yeah,

Shama Hyder:

but think about this right now. It doesn't take long for challenger to become the status quo. So yes, what started as millennials with apps, we all use apps now.

Joelly Goodson :

Well, that's what happens when you talk about going to a restaurant,

Shama Hyder:

that's what happens. But now it's no longer a millennial thing that this is what I find fascinating is all brands. You know, we see this a lot in b2b, which is they think like, Oh, we're competing with other b2b companies and like, are the other competitors are snooze. So as having a website is like a huge thumbs up, like step up. It's like, Yeah, but your buyers now whether they're buying for a business, like whether it's you know, they're they're at the enterprise level, and they're stopping shopping for software or for personal stuff, their bar is not other b2b companies. They're not. They're saying like, Oh, well, thank God, you're you don't just have a catalogue, like, that's not their bar, their bars, the Apple Store, their Sephora app, they're like, Amazon, that is the level, right? That's the level of ease of feed of agility that is expected today, not just like, as a nice to have, but that is the new the new bar, if you will. And so I think from a branding perspective, yes, I mean, ease of business, absolutely. Part of it comes down to asking your customers, I always think that's fascinating. You know, one of the things that when we do PR, we're looking at ROI and whatnot, we tell our clients ask on your contact form, when you get leads, ask them, how did they hear about you, nine out of 10 times, it's not going to match what analytics shows you because there's no way to track that you can only ask them, because so much of it happens in dark social, where people are researching and whatnot, but they're not sharing it publicly. Think about people listening to this podcast right now, shortly after this, someone's gonna go to your site, they're gonna Google it, or they might Google my name, or they might go to the company website. If I look at Google Analytics, it's going to say, okay, they came through search, but they didn't actually come to search. If I asked them, they're gonna say, Oh, I heard you on Julie's podcast, huh? Yeah. There's no way for Julie's podcast to track that there's like I so part of, I think what brands have to get really good at. And I hope it's, I don't know why this is so hard, maybe because it's a simple answer. And we just expect it to be like complicated and fancy or whatnot. But asking your customers ask them, Where did you hear about us? And that's how you know if something's working or not,

Joelly Goodson :

I, you know, I love that you said that. And even on a personal level, because every time I have someone who will reach out to me on LinkedIn, let's say, or send me a request, I always reply, and I say that I go, Hey, thanks so much for connecting with me. I'm just curious, you know, what inspired you to reach out? How did you find me or five, someone who sends me an email with my podcasts, I get a lot of people who want to have me on their platform or whatever. And I and I just got one this morning, funnily enough, and there's this platform for podcasts. And I reached back and I said, Oh, thanks for reaching out. I'm just curious, how did you find me that may not be very technical or whatever, but I keep track of that. So I know, like, where? How are people finding me? And where are they finding me? Right? Yeah,

Shama Hyder:

you know, what's working with me as to how many companies refuse to do that, like, they'll spend hundreds and 1000s of dollars on analytics on on all this stuff? And I'm like, just ask, yeah, just ask your customers. And they'll tell you, you know, they keep spending money on stuff that doesn't have any return. Same thing we're talking about how do your customers even find information to get from reading your catalog? So I think it's really interesting. If you think about it as a triangle, the top two thirds of the triangle prospects are doing research and the bottom 1/3 Is their sales, right? They're talking to sales and whatnot. Now, if you flip that triangle, so the pointy so the smaller piece of the triangle is up top, the 1/3 part of it is spent in marketing, maybe, and the rest of it companies focus on sales, not branding. So it's a very inverted approach. And it has nothing to do with millennials or Gen Z. It's just like, people don't want to talk to sales until they're already sure what they want. You know, and I see that all the time. When people come in media, nine out of 10 times it's because they want to know Hey, can you know can you guys help us with this situation? They're not looking for like, are you guys the right shot? Like they already know, you already know, like, you know, so they've already done their homework they're not looking

Joelly Goodson :

at before you walk into buy a car, you've already you already know the maker already know what you're not going to pay and what you should pay. We all know that because we have things like TripAdvisor and Google and the consumer is more savvy than ever before. So you touched briefly on Gen Z, I want to now explore that because that millennial those millennials now are in their 40s, believe it or not, and now Gen Z's are entering the workforce. And I work with a lot of my clients that are Gen z's, and they have a whole different set of values and things that are important to them when they're looking at choosing brands. So I'd like you to touch a little bit on that and how the Gen Z's differ from millennials and how brands now need to or have hopefully learned how to pivot and change to appeal to this new generation coming up.

Shama Hyder:

Yeah, so it's really interesting. So if you think about millennials as like the Harry Potter generation, right, everything's magic, there's possibility. There's maybe one villain, there's a power struggle. It's very traditional. And at its core, you could think of Gen Z as the Hunger Games generation. I've never heard that before different construct different mindset, they've come up in an era where for millennials were a certain aesthetic was important. Even like Instagram is a great example, how you project your brand to the world mattered. Gen Z is the opposite where the more authentic, it's like the Olivia Rodrigo, there's the artists that they embody the things that they like Billy Eilish, like it's so very much more about being authentic and yourself and varying things on your sleeve versus the millennial generation was very like buttoned up. It's about a curated image. And Gen Z is much more about the anti curated image, the authentic, even if it's ugly, heck, we embrace that, right? So it's a very different ethos. There's also the reason I say Hunger Games. And Harry Potter as an example, is because in Hunger Games, whether you read the book or not, the sense is that there's really no way to win in the world. So there's a general sense of like you against the world, but also a sort of nihilistic spirit, which I mean, you see that and Gen Z, which is like, what's the point of even saving up for old age when the planet may not even be here by the time we get there. Now, whether that's accurate or not, obviously, plants been here for millions of years. It's just the ethos, where that's coming from. And so they do hold brands to a different level of a higher level, think about all the things that have come to the forefront in the last few years, much of it driven by Gen Z's insistence, some of it you know, very good to move the world forward, much more focused on climate change, and what it's doing to the world. A much greater focus on mental health. I think that's been really awesome to watch where that's the I think Gen Z has really been a key driver in D, stigmatizing mental health and making that okay, holding even employers to a higher level, right? Diversity being very important to them, not just lip service, but what are you actually doing about it? Now? Do I think there's a shadow side to it? Sure. But I think, you know, eventually, all things come back to the pendulum has to swing hard one way to come back and settle in the middle. So what we see right now, is the pendulum swinging all the way, which does mean a lot of times the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater, where it's like, yeah, but where, where do we draw the line? And this is where they get accused of being snowflakes or overly woke or whatnot. And so what do you think about the cancer?

Joelly Goodson :

What do you think about sorry, I want to I don't mean to interrupt you, but I want to just touch on one thing you said one thing that I think is very topical, and there's a lot of debate over is the whole cancer culture. And so I want to touch on that because a lot of people think that's gotten way too far and ridiculous and what's going on? So I want to get your opinion on that. It's very

Shama Hyder:

caustic. And it's not that much different than burning people at the stake, right. Like our version of of doing that digitally. And look, do I think there are people like Weinstein that really needed to face their crimes? Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. So there are has there been a lot a reckoning of sorts? Sure. Do. I think it's gone too far? Absolutely. Because here's the thing. We're all human beings, we all make mistakes. A good culture, allows for the atonement of those mistakes, and gives people a chance to do better. And I think canceled culture doesn't allow for that because much of it is driven by mob mentality, rather than a genuine. Why are we doing this? What's the you know, like? I think it hasn't been taken very far, I think things get taken out of context, I think careers and lives have been ruined over it. And that makes me sad because I think it is unfair. I think it's very unfair. Well, you talked about

Joelly Goodson :

the pendulum swinging too far. And my personal opinion is I think it has swung very far. I mean, we talked about movies, I'm talking about comedy. I've talked to a lot of people. I've read a lot of things about comedy, how comedy isn't what it used to be, because they can't say anything anymore. Because everyone's getting cold. Everybody's getting canceled. So comedians are either not as good as they were like, everyone's like, there's no good comedians anymore. It's because they're all feeling like they can't say anything or the entertainer, Ricky Gervais,

Shama Hyder:

and you don't care.

Joelly Goodson :

Right? Yeah, no, you know what I mean? So I just, it just triggered me that question when you talked about the pendulum swinging with the Generation Z, because I think that is one thing that is definitely needs to come back, hopefully, because it's gone way too far. And it's, I think, in a negative

Shama Hyder:

way. Yeah. And I'm interested. So this is gonna be interesting. I'm very interested to see Jen alphas. Take wary because every app kind of happens, where there's this culture, there's a counter culture, and then we find your balance and snack. Yeah, I think there's a lot of pent up anger, honestly, which we see directed in a lot of these ways. But yes, I think that the internet has given mob mentality, which is a very true phenomena, rather than pitchforks and torches. It's digital pitchforks. No one. I mean, it's the equivalent of just that. And, you know, they say the lie is halfway around the world before the truth has, it's time to put its pants on. And we see a lot of that too, for sure. So, you know, I do think I think all brands are going to make some mistakes, because there's no foolproof way to navigate everything. But I think how you respond to that is going to make a world of difference. Right? So now in PR, we deal with crisis, calm situations where we deal with getting ahead of things sometimes. And part of that is again, the more authentic you can be, the more you can be genuine about how you feel either way that goes by the ways. And believe it or not, I think Gen Z respects more companies that take a stance that companies that just don't have anything to say about

Joelly Goodson :

it. Yeah, and I think you know, absolutely, and when brands are or companies or businesses, I think there we talked earlier about being more authentic and being transparent as well, like, This is who we are, this is what our values are. And this is what we believe in. And you know what, at the end of the day, they're going to have their audience and their consumer that is going to buy into their brand. And that's going to share the same values and is going to be loyal to them. And you know, you talk a lot about niching when it comes to your brand and branding and finding who your niche is finding your tribe and connecting with them. And so if they have their values and their audience that connects with them, for whatever reason, then that's great. And I think what I was going to ask you actually, that's a great segue into my next question is now that Gen Z's are becoming you know, the growing they're not there yet, but they're definitely now in the in the marketplace and earning money, and they're eventually gonna have more power and more consumed more consumers are going to be in that generation. So how do you think brands are gonna have to now shift again, to connect with this new generation? What are some things you know, for businesses, especially my audience, I have a lot of CEOs and business leaders that are listeners, what are some things that they can do to make sure that they stay relevant with this new generation?

Shama Hyder:

Yeah, so we think the big thing is to realize advertising is wonderful, and it has its place, but the trust and advertising has declined tremendously. So if you're still putting all your eggs in that basket, you're really shooting yourself in the foot because I mean, forget about all the terrible fraud that happens in advertising in general, but this generation cares more about third party credibility than any other generation. I've never seen PR plays such a crucial role in anything because they do trust third party sources, they trust their peers, they trust influencers. I'll give you a great example which might be a good way to showcase this LinkedIn recently announced their a new emoji so the the announced like they're funny, they added like a haha emoji, which I think is also interesting, and shows their own catering to the Gen Z world because you think of like a ha ha emoji on a professional network. And, you know, five years ago on LinkedIn that might have just been laughed at, literally. But

Joelly Goodson :

LinkedIn has changed so much in the last, especially since COVID. I mean, it's, I actually love it more now than ever, because it's a lot more than just people you should just post like resumes right? That was their resume. Now it's Yeah, social media, right?

Shama Hyder:

It's really social. And you see the pendulum swinging there to see like very personal stuff or perhaps borderline inappropriate and then you know, people like wait, this is not LinkedIn appropriate. So as a culture we're also deciding that now what I thought was really cool was LinkedIn obviously peed Mindy Kaling and she did a post about the funny emoji and said, Let's get down to funny business and so I just thought it was such a brilliant way to introduce their emoji in tied into someone who was relevant and made sense with money, right? It's funny, but business worlds lot are very cool. So I thought that was a great example. And I think these are the types of thing businesses are gonna have to look at in terms of their marketing their brand, is, look, creativity is no longer optional, or like, Oh, that's nice. That's a little creative. I think it's going to have to be the cornerstone of everything a brand does. Because the one other thing we know whether it's Gen Z, millennials, whatever, is that the world is only getting noisier. Like the amount of content that is created. Oh, yeah, it's definitely so for your brand to stand out. I think that is it gonna be harder? Yeah. Do I think it's getting any easier? Nope. I think you should start yesterday he?

Joelly Goodson :

Or last week or six months ago or a year ago? Yeah, absolutely. And so what are some brands? Can you name brands that are doing it right as of now that are getting it? You

Shama Hyder:

know, before I answer that question to Julie also see this, I think brand loyalty is a fool's errand. Oh, interesting. Because LinkedIn has great research on this brand loyalty goes to the person who has the most customers. If you focus on acquisition, you will win the loyalty game. But if you focus on loyalty, you may or may not win the loyalty game, the more market share that you have, the more loyalty you get, it goes hand in hand. But so many brands focused on like loyalty, not realizing like, if you just focus on getting more market share, you will eventually get more loyalty.

Joelly Goodson :

Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Because I want to make sure I'm following you exactly.

Shama Hyder:

So people focus on loyalty, right? How do we keep our customers loyal, you can focus on all you want. But it's actually just better to go after newer customers like Yes, keep your customers happy, obviously. But there is a there is a point of diminishing returns, you really want loyalty, get more market share, the more market share the more trust in your brand, the more loyalty you'll have.

Joelly Goodson :

Okay, but you don't want to dismiss your current clients. I mean, you want them to

Shama Hyder:

think she gives a baseline right? The customer marketing is a real thing. Like, obviously, your customers need to feel good about doing business with you. What I'm saying is, though, they will feel good about doing business with you, as more people choose you to do business with,

Joelly Goodson :

I see, okay, because then you become more popular. And so they're thinking more

Shama Hyder:

popular, you're more trusted. If everyone's doing business with you, of course, I should do business with you. Yeah,

Joelly Goodson :

no, that makes total sense. And then there's also a distinction about, you know, customer loyalty, and the loyalty programs because right, you know, how there's like, those are huge, older loyalty programs. But I don't necessarily believe that a loyalty program equals a loyal customer. What do you think about that?

Shama Hyder:

Absolutely agreed. I think that most loyalty programs are done badly or wrong, like the people realized that quickly when they kept people, you know, forcing them to download apps, and then they would just not use them again, like, so many companies spend so much money on their apps that nobody uses, or they use it once for that promo, and they never came back. And so I think it's about understanding your customer base. Now, lush, I think is a very smart brand. They no longer have a presence on Facebook, I believe, or Instagram, they said that they do not appreciate, you know, they took a stance on it. So they, they cut their Facebook ads, this, they were no longer going to do Instagram. They do work with influencers, though, who are on those platforms, but for their audience that really resonated and the amount of press and you know, the sheer voice that went up for them and the visibility, they got more than made up for a few years worth of loss, Facebook ad sales, you know what I mean? So it's a very smart brand. And I thought that was a very savvy decision. Even though you know, the the official verbiage was like, Oh, we're doing this for political reasons, or we're taking a stance or whatnot. I thought it was a brand that was very shrewd about how they, you know, because they're still on Pinterest, they're still on other platforms. They still work with influencers. But yeah, I just thought it was a very shrewd decision, the way the approach that so there are brands that are doing smart, good, was a statement for them. Right. Sure. was a statement. Do I think the statement helped them more than hurt them? Absolutely. Yeah. Because the statement was we're willing to take this hit but wasn't really ahead. Yeah, exactly. That's so much visibility from that. And it's very smart. So I don't deny them that and I'm not even saying it was a you know, it was sneaky. That's not I'm just saying that the good outweighed

Joelly Goodson :

the outcome via it was a positive outcome. And, you know,

Shama Hyder:

they're and they're very Gen Z, you know, Gen Z is a big customer base for them. So it resonated with their audience.

Joelly Goodson :

Yeah. And it goes back to what you just said earlier about how you know, Gen Z's want businesses and brands to stand for something and then so when these businesses are standing for whatever they believe in, I mean, you can look at a huge brand like Patagonia who's could be very controversial, but you know, they have very strong stance on things and then they're gonna have their consumer that aligns with their same values and is gonna stick with them. So when lash made this statement for their own part purpose and their own reason, it actually probably grew out of that because more people saw what they were doing. And again, that's that generation who is more interested in getting behind the curtain and seeing what brands are actually doing and standing for. And then they're making their decisions as far as who they're going to align with. Yeah, absolutely. For sure.

Shama Hyder:

Do I think it's the right strategy for every brand? No. I also think it was a good lesson in picking your platforms and doubling down not trying to do everything. I think there's a sense of like, we need to be doing everything. No, you need to be doing a few things right. And consistently, yeah,

Joelly Goodson :

no, absolutely. So I've heard you say people are now the media. Can you elaborate on what that means? Yeah, Joey, it's

Shama Hyder:

you book your podcast, right. And everybody who tweets this and shares this people are the media, I think that's the sense of how information spreads is amazing. And just a little mind boggling to how quickly things can go quote unquote, viral, I mean, look at, you know, something that starts as a tweet has millions of views by, you know, an end of the day or whatever is happening. So, I think in that way, people are the media, you look at the power reviews play, how we share information, you know, like when you want to find a good new restaurant, and how many people look at Yelp or TripAdvisor versus anything else. And so this is what I mean by people are the media, even in the media, things are changing, we approach PR very differently. Traditionally, PR is been the audience's public like it's journalists, traditional journalists, but who is a traditional journalist today, that is very much a changing, you know, for some of our clients being on your podcast is going to be a lot better than being on the front page of like, let's see, even the Wall Street Journal.

Joelly Goodson :

Do you hear that everybody? Yeah, right, the

Shama Hyder:

audience, getting a job. And so understanding your influencers, understanding your audience and realizing that, yes, that media is like being on the cover of anything used to be such a big deal, I can honestly tell you, it's not today, that big of a deal, because of how fragmented the media landscape is,

Joelly Goodson :

well, especially with magazines, people can pay to get into any magazine as well, too. So how authentic is it?

Shama Hyder:

Well, there's a lot of overlap between paid and earned as well. Now, I don't dismiss that, because I'm like, there may be some PD opportunities that make a lot of sense. But again, third party credibility is always going to go a lot further than any advertising, anything someone else says about you is going to be 10x more powerful than what you say about yourself.

Joelly Goodson :

Yeah, I love that. And going back to the traditional media, I also think that we're living in a time, you know, the whole fake news where there's been a huge loss of trust in the media, right? I mean, back when I was younger, and people like Walter Cronkite, and Dan, rather, I mean, the we what they said, we believed, and we knew that it was true, and we didn't question it. But now what's gone on and everything. I think there's been a lot of lost trust with the media. And so who are you going to trust you're going to trust some talking head that you're seeing on TV, or you're going to trust your friend, or you talk about the influencer, who you've already now created that relationship and build that trust with right trust is a huge part of connecting and adding value to Why talk about brands and you know, trying to connect with their audience. And when you talk about third party think that's the way it's done is through that trust? Absolutely.

Shama Hyder:

And so this is what I was trying to say is the people are the media money. It's not the traditional journalist anymore. It's not the Walter Cronkite or the dean rather, but the Tiktok influencer, who's creating content or creator, if you will, I think that's the more appropriate is their communities, people who have trust that you can leverage that trust to build your audience and get in front of the right people. And that's why I said, you sometimes getting our clients on the right podcast is worth a lot more than a traditional quote unquote, placement because it's who their audience is listening to, it's who they trust in. So part of that is creating trust at all those levels. And so yeah, look, I think the last few years have been rough for the media, a lot has changed. The other thing that's changes most journalists today are contributors who wear multiple hats. And they're not just like, the other day, I talked to a prospect and he said, we really want someone with retail connections, you know, retail media, and I'm like, great, but just so you know, most people who write for retail outlets also write for eight other outlets like they're not they're sitting in like people imagine like old school editor rooms with that had and like people clicking away, you know, there's one editor like, it doesn't work that way anymore, right? Like contributors who have four other publications they write for. And so I think even that the media landscape in general has changed dramatically.

Joelly Goodson :

Absolutely. For sure. Well, you know, it's funny, I just looked at the time and I can't believe how fast it's gone by. I love talking to you. I think we've touched on so many different topics. And I know we went off a little bit but I just found you know, you picked a lot of questions in me and so if people want to learn more about you and all that you do, what's the best way for them to connect with you?

Shama Hyder:

Thanks, Julie. I am on social so no, pick your poison. LinkedIn is probably where I'm most active and where I publish tons. So certainly if you connect with me there do put Julie's name in the note because otherwise, I will never see. But yeah, certainly. And then, you know, if you go to show my hydro.com, you can see and learn more. And there's tons of you're interested in like marketing and PR, there's so much content on Zed media.com. The team does an amazing job keeping that updated. And there's just a lot of how tos and understanding how to approach some of these things. So yeah, thanks so much for having me on. Joey. This was a lot of fun.

Joelly Goodson :

Amazing. Well, congrats to you and your business and all your speaking engagements. I'd love to see you live one day, I don't know if you ever do ever make it up to Canada or even,

Shama Hyder:

you know, I will let you know when I have my next public engagement there for sure.

Joelly Goodson :

Okay, that would be great. Do you have any parting words for everyone before we sign off?

Shama Hyder:

Yes, get in the arena, do these things. Try that. I think it's very easy. You know, look, I love podcasts. I listen to things too. But just do one thing, like learn something and then just enact it, even if it's as simple as writing a post or like doing something or talking to someone on your team about starting an initiative. But take action. I think it's so easy these days to become a consumer of information. But really what's going to move the needle for anybody in any brand is actually doing things and trying them.

Joelly Goodson :

Yeah, great advice. Well, thank you again. And hopefully we'll stay in touch.

Shama Hyder:

I'd like that. That was wonderful. Your great hosting. Oh,

Joelly Goodson :

you're amazing. We had a lot. I kept going off because you would say something like, oh, I want to know more about that. And so I hope I didn't go too much all over the place for you know, you were totally fine. Okay, cool. Talk to you soon. Hi. And there you have it. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed the conversation and maybe learned a few things to help you with your branding. This show is a work in progress. So please remember to rate and review on whatever platform you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like help creating brand awareness for your business, please reach out to me on any of the social platforms under you guessed it - Branding Badass, I promise you I reply to all my messages. Branding Matters was produced, edited and hosted by Joelly Goodson, also me. So thank you again and until next time, here's to all you badasses out there!