Episode 8 - Gordon Griffin - Audio book Legend and National Treasure.

Gordon Griffin comes from Newcastle-upon-Tyne, though he was actually born at Gilsland in Northumberland, where his family temporarily located in wartime. He trained at Rose Bruford College.

Career:
As a stage actor, he has half a century's experience of working in theatres up and down the British Isles, and in English-speaking productions overseas. He took part in the first national tour of Godspell, and played in Julius Caesar and in Murder in the Cathedral at Chichester Festival Theatre. Other UK regional theatres where he has performed include Derby Playhouse and the Octagon Theatre, Bolton.

For twenty years he was the Casting Director for The English Theatre of Hamburg and has cast over fifty plays, including The Importance of Being Earnest, Twelfth Night, As You Like It, Arms and the Man, Candida, Blithe Spirit, The Caretaker, Private Lives and The Circle, as well as the plays of LaBute and David Mamet.

As a cabaret singer he has performed with his singing partner Francoise Geller in the UK and elsewhere. He has composed music and lyrics for productions such as The Circle, Educating Rita, When the Reaper Calls, Over the River, Through the Woods and April in Paris.[4]

His first film job, in Arabesque, required him to play a scene with Gregory Peck and Sophia Loren.

On television he has been a presenter on Play School, he played Inky in two series of Chips' Comic for Channel 4 and he spoke the first line in the first episode of Byker Grove.

Griffin has worked as a dialogue coach on Byker Grove and Kavanagh QC.

Through doing radio drama he realised that he could display great versatility with his voice alone, accessing a greater range of parts than would otherwise be possible. (For instance, in the late 'sixties when well into his twenties he took over the part of Billy the eldest grandson in The Dales, formerly Mrs Dale's Diary, who had previously been played as a boy with an unbroken voice, and played him till the serial ended.)

He 'got in on the ground floor' when audiobooks started to be recorded. For many years he has been a voiceover specialist and has recorded nearly eight hundred audiobooks, mostly unabridged.[9] The subjects have been as varied as Homer's Odyssey, Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four and novels by H. G. Wells and Jules Verne, as well as more modern writers like Hilary Mantel and Melvyn Bragg. Also many titles in the Golden Age of Murder series for the British Library, and non-fiction titles such as Elegy: The First Day on the Somme, and Breakfast is a Dangerous Meal by Terence Kealey, among many others. AudioFile Magazine wrote: "Griffin is not just a narrator, but an artist of the Spoken Word. He is in the top five of the most borrowed audiobook narrators in the world."[10] In 2015-2016 his 2015 reading of Kate Ellis 's The Death Season was the sixth most borrowed adult audiobook from UK public libraries, as reported by the Public Lending Right office.

His more unusual audio recordings include having been the courteous voice advising alighting passengers to "Mind the gap, please" on the London Underground.

In 2017, Griffin was appointed MBE in the Queen's Birthday Honours List "For services to People with Sight Impairment".

Publication
In 2020, Griffin published his memoir Speaking Volumes.

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Gordons Details:

Website: www.gordongriffin.com
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Today we have Gordon Griffin on the podcast. It's lovely to have you on, Gordon. How are you? I'm good, I think. Yeah. I'm fine. You're absolutely fine. How are you? I'm very well. Very well, thank you. Yeah. Enjoying uh all these wonderful Zoom chats that I'm having at the moment. It's uh it's brilliant. So um yeah, so it's absolutely wonderful to have you on today, Gordon. Uh Gordon is um an incredible person, he's achieved so much. Uh he's uh he's an MBE, he's he's been uh recording audiobooks for for so many years now, uh 921 and counting according to his website, which is phenomenal. Back in 2017, uh he he received an MBE, and we're gonna talk more about that a little bit later on. Um, it's fabulous to have you here today. Uh and but let's let's start by by telling everyone how we actually got to know each other. So we yeah, you you can go for it if you want.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

Well, um it's a it's a kind of complicated story, but I uh amongst all the other things that I did and do, uh I was the casting director for the English Theatre of Hamburg, which is a fantastic organization that does plays in English using English actors or um UK actors. And um I worked there, I'd been in a lot of television, and I wanted to do a theatre job. I wanted to play a big part, uh, the kind of part where you have to carry the play. And I said to anybody who would listen, um, offer me a part, I'll go anywhere, I'll go and rep. I want to have a really big part on the stage with an audience. And um, the English theatre of Hamburg was casting, and I rather liked the idea of doing a play in another country, getting to know another country and another another city. And uh so I accepted this part, it was a terrific part. Um, and I went to Hamburg for it was about three and a half months over the winter period in the 80s, and I got on well with the guys who ran the theatre. And when I came back to London, um I got a call from them to say um they were casting a children's play, and they didn't have time to come over to the UK because they were so busy with the evening shows. And uh, would I cast it? Uh, which was a bit daunting at first. But then, of course, I thought, well, I do know a lot of people. And so the longer, the short of it was that I sent these actors off to Hamburg that the directors had never met at this point, and uh they they went off to do the play. And not only were they very good actors, but they were very nice people, they all got on very well with each other, and so um, it was a success. So they eventually asked me if I'd like to be the permanent casting director for the English Theatre of Hamburg, and um that was casting four plays a year, and it what was miraculous over these 30 years that I that I did this, um, was the was that I was able to um carry on doing my other work, my voice work, my theater work, my television work, and fit in the casting as well. So the reason the answer to the question about how I met you was we were casting, and I auditioned you and you went to Hamburg. That was the connection.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

And that was that was um a fabulous time for me. That was back in 2010, and uh which is 11 years ago now. That's quite staggering. I can't I can't I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Oh, that that really is surprised. Did you just do the one play?

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Uh no, I did too. I did uh I did the one. So I did Deadly Game, uh, and then that was 2010, and then Stone Cold Murder 2013. Um and uh that was a great time. Uh I love Hamburg, it's a it's a beautiful city, and um it was fun. Uh the the the the the directors are wonderful there at the English Theatre of Hamburg, Bob and Cliff. Um big shout out to those guys.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

And uh yeah, they do fabulous work and um uh every every struggling like like all like all theaters, they're struggling at the moment because of course they're not open. Yeah, and um you know they didn't have a massive budget or anything like that. So like all theaters, um we just have to hope that this pandemic ends sooner rather than later, and we can get back to work. And of course, Brexit hasn't helped at all.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

No, absolutely. No, it's been it's been tricky, and particularly for for actors who are um you know from from the UK, it's proving quite a challenge. And um, yeah, you were you were casting how how many years were you casting for at the English Theatre of Hamburg?

SPEAKER_03 4:59

I I think it was about I think I think my first one in 1990, and uh I finished, well, because of Brexit, I finished um last year um when they could no longer use uh um UK actors.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Uh I was I mean that was fine. I was thinking of giving it up anyway because I've been doing it for such a long time. And so um, and and and also my other work really was um, it was taking up quite a lot of my time. So, but it was a fantastic experience. I loved Hamburg, I loved the and I and I still will continue when we can to go back there, go and see the actors, still support the theater in every way that I can, and still, I'm still there to help with um you know casting advice and uh anything like that. So I haven't severed my connection at all. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Uh absolutely, and I I would love to go back at it myself, not necessarily to be in the show. I mean, that would be great, but uh, but I I I would like to go over and and watch a show and then go and enjoy the wonders of Hamburg as well. That would be that would be brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

And hopefully that's no, there's no reason why I don't I don't know what what is your passport status, because that's what it's down for.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

My passport status is is the UK at the moment, but uh as most or some people know I'm living in uh in Sweden now, so uh there's a possibility of of getting a Swedish passport at some point. We we we shall see how it all how it all pans out, and that that might work work in my favor in the in the long run. So we'll see. We'll see. But um yeah, good. So uh and you enjoyed casting, the the casting process, something you enjoyed. I did.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

I loved the casting process. I what I liked very much was after uh we cast uh cast the play. I think advantage I had as a casting director was I being an actor myself, um I was very much on the side of the actors, and so sometimes uh when an actor would walk in the room, I would think, no, they're not right. Uh, but I would still give them the full time and still so they would leave not thinking, oh, that was a bad because you you you know, as an actor yourself, you go into an audition and uh you know straight away they don't like you or you're wrong or whatever it is, and it's very frustrating. And do you think I've prepared for this? But you the moment you walk in the room, you can get from them that they're not interested in you. Absolutely. And I think what I hope that what I was able to do was be on their side and be sympathetic to them. And I I would like to think that nobody came into an audition for me that didn't have a good experience, even if they didn't get the absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

I mean, I I I had a I had a lovely experience, and uh it's it was such a relaxing environment to come into. Um, and you were a very generous casting director and very kind. And um uh yeah, I I mean going back to your point about walking into a room and and them not liking you, I uh I once went, I won't mention the name of the show, but I auditioned for a TV, quite a big TV project actually. Um, and I don't believe the casting director actually looked up from the page once. And uh it was just uh it was a painful experience. I I'd prepared for it a lot and I yeah I learned I'd learned a line.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

It's outrageous, and it's it's not how it should be. No, you know, really no, I can't think of any other uh job where you'd get such treatment and and just accept it. It's it's really, really bad.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

No. I uh it's staggering that that that can happen. I mean, I I hope it's that's not a regular thing, but um, yeah, that that was that was I've had a lot of enjoyable casting experiences, but that that was not not one of them for sure. But anyway, um let's let's let's move on. So uh um yeah, so Gordon is is uh you know a phenomenal uh actor and and uh and a voice uh artist and a narrator.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

And before the terrified housekeeper could interfere, he had fallen upon his knees and was rapidly scouring the floor with a small stick of what looked like a black cosmetic. In a few moments, no trace of the flight state could be seen. He exclaimed as he looked at his matter and family. A fearful field of standard made them all started to their feet. I guess the old country is overpopulated that they have not enough different weather for everybody. I have always been of opinion that immigration is the only thing for England. What can we do with the water? And in a few moments, Mr. Summit certainly came to no doubt, however, that he was extremely upset. Mr. Otis, however, and his wife was surprised on itself, but they were not afraid of ghosts. And after invoking the blessings of providence on her new master and mistress and making arrangements for an increase of salary, the old housekeeper tottered off to her own room.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

How is that for you as a as a as a narrator for audiobooks? Is that something that you really enjoy doing, or you just feel that it's something you're good at, or a combination of the two?

SPEAKER_03 11:03

Well, I certainly wasn't my plan to record 900 audiobooks. No. Uh it never was my plan for it to, I was an actor, I am an actor. Um and it the audiobook thing just kind of took over. I did, I started when the audiobooks, when they were called talking books, I got my first uh work then and just carried on doing and carried on doing and carried to such an extent that I was not able to do any other work. I was just booked up you know, weeks ahead to do audiobooks, and suddenly that took over. But it wasn't my plan to break records or to essentially the idea of recording nearly a thousand audiobooks was never part of my plan. However, um I done a lot of radio and I came into it via radio, which I liked very much. I like the idea that it's just your voice, and I like the idea that in radio it doesn't matter what you look like, uh, it's what you sound like. And my very first radio job was in the late 60s when I played a 16-year-old boy in a radio soap opera of the time called The Dales, or Mrs. Dales Diary, as it had been called. And I played a 16-year-old because I was able to sound like a 16-year-old. And um, in fact, I was in my early 20s or something at the time. So um that was it, that was amazing for me. The fact that it didn't matter what you looked like, it was what you sounded like. And if you were the person listening had no idea what you looked like, but they could imagine you in the character. And I think a very good example of how radio works uh in a completely different way from television, say, was there was a very popular series on television with Wendy Craig bringing up three of her teenage sons, and it was on television, very successful. And so they decided to do it on radio, and um the same, the same actors, the same scripts. And the boy who was playing the 15-year-old, when you watched him on television, there he was. He was a 15-year-old, you could see it. When it was when he did it on radio, he had it, he had a kind of his voice had broken, obviously, and he had a kind of gravelly voice and talk like that. And he sounded so much older, but he was the right age and didn't sound it. So here was me who was the wrong age but did sound it, and that was the kind of a revelation in a kind of way that you you could do anything in radio, it didn't matter. And I got because I could convincingly sound like a teenager, I got play, I I got to play loads and loads of teenagers, but it worked to my advantage when radio forwarded a huge production of Romeo and Julia, and um they wanted the Romeo and Julia to be the right ages, that is to say, 16 and 15. But of course, they weren't looking at the actors who were going to play it, they were listening to them. And uh aged whatever I was, 30 or 31 or 32, I played Romeo. So um that was the fascination for me of radio. It didn't mean that I only wanted to be on radio, but it was uh it meant that when audiobooks started to happen, then I was it was natural for me to go into that because when you're on the BBC rep, that is to say a group of actors who are contracted to do radio for the BBC, it means that you're not just in plays, but you you you're farmed off to do um a book about poetry, uh program about poetry, or I did an arts program called Kaleidoscope, and it meant that whenever they were reviewing the book, whatever the book was, I'd go to the studio, the director would say, uh, this is what the book we're going to be reviewing today. He'd tell me what the story was or what the book was about. I'd read extracts from it, and when they came into the studio, they would discuss the particular book by playing extracts that I'd read. So already the storytelling element was involved in re in the the work that I did in radio. And even in television, although I got played lots and lots of parts on television as a young actor, I was suddenly presenting play school, I was suddenly telling stories on rainbow. I'm not quite sure how that happened. So the storytelling element almost accidentally happened. So as I say, that all led me, uh, although I didn't know it at the time, to this new fangle thing called talking books. And I got my foot in the door and it's been there ever since. And as I say, eventually, there was more and more companies started up, I was recording for all these companies, and so suddenly I was just my diary was full of work, which was fantastic. But it did mean eventually that I had to give up doing the theater and the television work because I simply had no time. The only way I would could do that would be to give up completely the audiobook work. Uh, it was impossible to do both.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Yeah, I mean, you it's it is truly remarkable the the work that you've done. And and and the the audiobooks themselves, I'm they are a lot of the stories you're doing are huge, epic tales. Um, how how is that in terms of you're how long does it take to actually from start to finish to to create one of those stories? Because I presume you're doing a lot of the work. Um, I I mean we can talk about this a little bit as well. Like because I at some point you were you were working in studios, but obviously because of COVID and corona, you know, I know for myself I've done and I'm now doing a lot of work from home. And I I presume it's a similar, similar case for yourself. So how how long does that all take now for you to to create this?

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Yeah, well, if you're if you're if you're recording in a studio, of course you have a certain uh set of time when you you've got to record. So an or an ordinary sort of thriller or an ordinary novel would take you about a take me about a day, a day and a half, well, say a day and a half, two days at the most. If you're doing um what are the big classic books, uh, for example, Tale of Two Cities I've done, uh 1984, these books, uh or or something like Homer's Odyssey, I mean that's going to take an a very long time to record. It's not so much the recording that takes time, it's the preparation. And every book needs to be prepared. And if I'm doing Homer, or if I'm doing uh the biography of Alan Turing, for example, which I did, it's incredibly complicated, especially for somebody who's enumerate like I am. So the preparation takes ages. Every book, the most important thing you need to know as a narrator is preparation is everything. And you really have to prepare the book so that when you go to the studio, you know the book as pretty as well as you can uh do. And then you it makes the recording so much easier because when you turn the page, you know exactly what's going to happen next. I don't go with this thing where I've heard some narrators say, Oh, but I'm very, very good at sight reading. Uh I don't need to read the book thoroughly, I can skim read it. Or I've heard some narrators will go into the studio not having read the book. Well, I'm a good sight reader too. I could just take any book here uh that I've never read before, and the the producer could say, Okay, we're going to record this. Okay, page one, and some instinct would kick in, and uh I would probably be able to get through it, but it wouldn't be it wouldn't be anywhere near as good as if I prepared it. And there'd be lots of mistakes. And is this the right voice? Is that the right because you would but if you do all that preparation beforehand, it makes the job so much easier. And by preparation, I don't just mean reading the book once. I mean, funnily enough, the most common thing people say to me when they know what I do is, do you have to read the book first? Which seems to me incredible. What do they think? You just go in, open the book, and think, okay, here we go, let's record it. No, of course you do. And sometimes not you have to sometimes read the book more than once. When I was doing the Turing book, for example, I spent, I would say, days reading all the formulae and all the complicated uh it was quite a technical battle. And it was no good, someone who's absolutely useless to anything to do with figures, um, it was no good me going in busking it. I have to know what I was talking about, or else the people listening wouldn't know what I was talking about. So preparation is everything. And so something like the Homer, I think it took about eight days to record, because it's massive. But whenever the studio, say eight days in the studio, but about three or four weeks before that, preparing it, working it out, deciding how the characters are going to sound. So it's the preparation which is the most important thing. Um, my nephew once said to me, You've got a really cushy job because all you do is go into a studio and tell stories. And in one sense, he's he's right, because that is the easy bit. You've done all the work, you've done all the preparation. So that going into the studio should be you should be relaxed, you know what you're doing. And in one sense, he is right because that is the easy bit. You're just putting into practice all the work that you've done beforehand. Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Um, okay, so uh preparation uh in terms of uh of reading the book, in terms of thinking about the characters and how you're going to actually voice those characters. Um, how about in terms of your your physical and your vocal preparation for a job that can take you know hours, can take days? Um, because I know from from my own experience, uh, you know, it can start to take its toll on you if you're if you're talking for a long period of time, even if you do warm up and prepare. What is your process in terms of getting your voice and your breathing and your and your physicality ready to take on a job, a huge epic tale like that?

SPEAKER_03 21:04

I I think I wish that I was able to say this is the technique that you have to use. With me, it's always been instinctive. I think I must have been very well trained at drama school, breathing and how to produce the voice. Because people often ask, you know, how do you do it? How do how is it that every single day you're recording from say nine to five or ten to five, whatever the studio is? How is it that your voice survives all that? Um, and my answer was always, I don't know. It just does. And how you still have the same vocal energy at four o'clock in the afternoon that you have when you started at nine o'clock. And I I don't know the answer. And I still really don't know the answer. Uh, as you said before, I'm now recording from home, which is something I never planned to do. And that is um I'm that's made me much more conscious of of the voice, and so I do do warm-ups, I do drink a lot of water, but I don't think there's a magic, I don't think there's a magic um formula to say this will keep your voice going. So it's it's a question I can't really um answer because I don't analyze it. But I do I look after the voice. I don't I don't smoke, for example, I don't go to noisy places, I don't overuse it. And when I'm doing a really long, complicated book, then I really relax. In the evenings, I don't go out, I don't, I take it very seriously. I will talk in the evenings I won't talk at all if I don't have to. I mean I mean I what I mean is I won't phone people up and I'll just you know and I won't go to restaurants. That's only when I'm working. Otherwise I'm just social as anybody else. But that's the only way I look after my voice. I try not to worry about it too much. I I know some some people have potions and lotions and gargling and which which works which works for them. But I have to say that it's let me put it this well and no I'm not going to temptate I was going to say I've never so far had to abandon a book because but I'm not going to say that anymore touch wood. And of course as you get older the voice gets older too yeah um but I don't have any magical technique about this is what you have to do, not at all.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Okay. Um what about in terms of because I know in a small amount of narration that I've done it's nothing compared to to you but um pronunciation of a certain word it could be named it could be plated it could be a particular act or a dialect any details around that in terms of how how you you know when you read a script and then you you you come across a word that you you have no idea how it's how it's going to be pronounced or um how do you come around that kind of because I find that very difficult having to sort of say it's it's it's certainly a lot easier.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

I well first of all the thing is to say is that as I say before preparation is everything and preparation does involve checking out all the pronunciations of any words that uh you don't know. I always say that if you're 90% certain this is how you pronounce a word, it's not enough. You've got to check to make sure you're absolutely right. And if you are absolutely right it's with it you haven't wasted any time but you might just be wrong. And so if if in the book you're recording there's a uh uh say a village in North Wales uh or if there's a town in Uzbekistan you might think nobody's gonna know exactly how that's pronounced somebody will yeah so you've got to check it out you really have to check it out it's it's really difficult and in the days when I was recording um before the internet uh that was really hard because it sometimes meant go to the local library and going through all the big volumes of dictionaries to find the pronunciation of the word you wanted because it didn't come into just an ordinary dictionary or you'd phone up the tourist office of say, I don't know Vietnam to get a certain pronunciation you had to do that sort of thing. I remember I did a book um which had lots of Icelandic words in it and I phoned up this Icelandic tourist office and this woman was incredibly generous with her time and went through everything. And luckily one of the great things I learned at drama school was phonetics. So I can write down what someone pronounces and uh and then I can reproduce it myself. But it is tough and it is very difficult. And um I once did a book that had Cornish in it and I don't mean the accent I mean the the actual language which is a dead language you know and so I what do I do? And this is again before the internet. So I had this brain wave and I I found the number of the Penzance Public Library and I just said to this lovely lady at the other end of the phone do you know anyone who speaks Cornish? And she said well I'm learning it's hooray so she was able to give me the pronunciation but also tell me what the words meant. And this was as I say it then now of course you'd go on the internet and you'd find out not always very reliable but you'd find out you put in the word and say how do you pronounce this and someone will probably tell you um but it's much better to get it from the horse's mouth as it were so if I'm doing a Norwegian book it's much better. It's a book that's got Norwegian in it at least it's better to talk to someone who's Norwegian or Hungarian or whatever it happens to be. I came across a only once I think really when I was really stuck and I was doing a book a lovely series of books about a Mallorcan detective called Alvarez and um a lovely character beautifully written books by someone called Roderick Graham who's English but lives in Mallorca and this was ages ago before I before I really understood that in Mallorca they don't speak Spanish mostly well they speak Spanish but it's not their main language. And in one of the books they talk about a very rare fungus which is it's like a mushroom and it only grows in Mallorca and it has this incredibly long name and I thought I don't know how to pronounce this I've got to check this because they in the story they were chopping up this mushroom like uh fungus and putting it into people's salads the the the the murderer and uh making people very ill and even killing them. So it was important this word came all the way through the book. So I phoned the Spanish tourist office and said how do you pronounce this they were very snooty and said this is not a Spanish word this is this is Catalan this this is what they speak in Mallorca Mallorquin which is a kind of Catalan which has nothing to do with Spanish. Okay okay fine sorry sorry I disturbed you um then I phoned a friend of mine who lives in Mallorca he's Spanish but he lives in Mallorca and he works in the catering industry so I phoned him and as I say this is before the internet I phoned him and I said you know this word have you come across this word before no he did he didn't but he said I know someone who probably will know and he is he works in the tourist office in Parma and he is a Catalan speaker. So I phoned yet again phoned Majorca phoned this guy who was very nice I don't know this word I've never come across it before so I thought there's only one thing I can do to sort out my problem I needed this problem solved I couldn't guess um so I phoned up I got from his publisher Roderick Jeffries's telephone number the guy who wrote the book and I phoned Roderick Jeffries very nice guy and I said you know we I've recorded your books I really enjoy them very much he said oh yes I enjoy listening to your record so we're gonna we're on we're on to a good start here so I said to him okay this is the book this is the word I spelled it out for him I said okay so how do how do you pronounce it and he said I've no idea I made it up so that wasn't very helpful but at least I knew that so together we worked out how it probably he based it on real words so we could work out how it might have been pronounced but it was a made up word and I wouldn't have known that but I had to check to make sure that it wasn't I was recording a book by Melvin Bragg and um it's set in Cumberland where he comes from and there was they talk about a river and the the word there's only one way it could be pronounced so I thought and I was preparing the book and I thought well I don't need to check this is I looked at the word and I thought can it been but it worried me it mingled me. So um I phoned up the late the the the nearest town uh Wigton or where it was I can't remember and I phoned um the the council officers I think and I said to the lady just want to check how do you pronounce this um river and I said can you say that again because I can't it didn't sound like anything like the word I said I spelt the word again she said no that's how we pronounced it here. So just in time I checked that out so it's it was a an object lesson to check everything out. You really must check everything out because you may not be right and if it is difficult and it does it is time consuming but it's absolutely worth it. And I did a book with had tons of Russian in it great long lists of Russian names and um I I did a crash course in Russian but at least when I came to the studio the names tripped off the tongue and I and I was pretty fluent. And that's why you have to do it yourself. I know that there are some people who say I'll get my producer to do that for me. And then the producer will phone up and get the Russian pronunciations then will phone you up to give you the Russian pronunciations or even worse you go to the studio and the woman and they'll say oh by the way here are the Russian pronunciations and you get this piece of paper and think oh my God you've got to do all this preparation first. It can't you can't read and then along came Nikolai can't do that. You have to know it. But it means a lot of work um beforehand but it's it makes the recording so much easier. Another thing to say about that is that it's not a good narrator is someone who gets really involved in the story and tells the story. It's not about not making mistakes I think a lot of people think that the good narrator is somebody who doesn't make mistakes and who's really fluent. And I I've heard producers say we've got this fantastic new narrator who absolutely never makes mistakes that's not what it's about at all. You're gonna make mistakes you get involved in something and you make mistakes the only thing I would say about that is that if you keep on making mistakes then you you lose the rhythm. All the books all books have their own kind of rhythm to them. And once you lose the rhythm what's what happens is if you stumble make a mistake you'll find that you'll make about three or four mistakes around about the same time and then get back into the rhythm of again again but it's not so it's better not to make mistakes but it's not the end of the world if you do and I I know it throws a lot of people you've just got to forget that just carry on and and get back into the into the swing of things and then it works um keeping the flow going. So that's the the secret about narrating is the preparation but also and this I think is very important you have to have acting skills. When I used to go and do my talk around the countryside about recording audiobooks so many people afterwards would come up to me and say I've been told I have a nice voice I'd like to do what you do. And there's no reason why they shouldn't except I do say the question have you got good ears? Doesn't matter both ears for preference both ears should be pretty good. So you can pick up nuances about the way people speak and also be good at doing accents because you're going to be getting every single accent under the sun. You don't get phased by that um and you don't have to overdo it. I mean if you're playing a Scottish character he doesn't have to sound like Billy Connolly you it's all subtle and I think this is the point. It's a subtle skill it's um somebody once described it it's painting in watercolours not great oil paints and actors it's very actors are probably the best people to root to because they've because it uses your acting skills but also sometimes actors come across because they want to perform they want to act they've got an audience and it's about here's a great opportunity for me to show off all the voices I can do. That's not it at all. It's very very much more subtle than that. It's not this here is this the wonderful story I want to tell you it's much more come here listen I've got this incredible story to tell you it's really interesting. Come on this journey with me it's much more that it's much more subtle and it's not about doing clever voices. It's not about that at all. I say that if somebody's listening to one of my books and they say oh I love the way he does that voice then I failed they shouldn't be listening to how I'm telling the story they should be listening to the story itself. So I think that's another important thing to say that it's it's not about me. It's not about the narrator it's about all I'm doing is interpreting what you've got the writer on the one hand and you've got the listener on the other hand. In the middle is you which is a big responsibility but your responsibility is to the writer and it doesn't matter what people say to me sometimes what happens if you've got a book that you don't enjoy and I say it's absolutely irrelevant what I think about the book it's nothing to do with me. I've got to interpret the book whatever I think of it in the best way that I can I've got to give it um all my all the conviction and if the dialogue is not particularly convincing I've got to make it convincing if the leading character is this handsome hero and I think he's objectionable it's irrelevant. I've got to make him the handsome hero and so whether it's Dickens or or or some little romance set in the hospital they still have to have the same they still have to be real yeah they have to be real and that applies also to nonfiction books as well tell the story bring the people in even if it's some dry boring stuff it hasn't got to be dry.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

You've got to make it not dry and um and bring in the audience what bring in the listeners whatever the subject of the book and and and understanding that under getting into the story getting into the characters and sort of almost forgetting that it's you know it's you Gordon Griffin voicing the story but but it you know they they they completely forget that and they get totally immersed in into what you're you're you're delivering.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

I think I think Warren that's exactly what happens to the narrator too when it's it's it's a very strange thing. What is great about recording audiobooks is it's just you in a studio at a microphone in another place somewhere else as the producer or the engineer and if it goes well and you can you've got no distractions then magic happens you're telling the story you're bringing and you get so involved in it that sometimes there's this extraordinary feeling it sounds a bit fanciful but it's true and I think other narrators agree with this that it it just the characters come alive and it's almost like you can sit back and let them get on with it. Oh they're having this lovely conversation oh they're getting very dramatic here oh and it's amazing you'd almost sit back you're involved of course because you're telling it this can only happen of course if you really know the book backwards but I've talked about this to other narrators and they have the same experience. So it does mean that when you're involved in a story and you're really getting into it and suppose you you make a say the wrong word and you don't realize it and your producer somewhere else clicks the button and says oh Gordon you jump out of your skill it's for a minute you don't know where you are and you oh oh yes yes calm down okay back to the story. It's it's if you get so involved in it um and it's it is great.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

That's how it should be I think well there we go for all those young uh narrators out there um Gordon speaks with so much experience and knowledge on the subject and preparation preparation preparation that's the key read the story multiple times if you need to until you know it back to front inside out and um and then you're in the job I would say I would say I would say uh to to anybody who's offered an audiobook they may look in their diary and think oh I've got these three days when I can record it it's not those three days are important of course but the you must factor in the preparation time.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

I won't take a book uh even if I've got days free to record it if I haven't got days free to prep prepare it and I say to people if they if they've got a book and they don't have time to do the preparation then it's better it really is better not to do the book because your first book may be your last book you may never get another book again. I've heard many examples of this which I won't go into detail who of people who've got hooray I've got my first book and they phone me up and say I'm really excited I've got my first book and I've got it and I said well you know now you must work out your schedule for practicing for for preparing and they say one guy said well I oh no no I've got the I w I won't have it in no I won't be able to have have read it before I go to the studio.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

He told me afterwards I said let me know how it goes he had it was booked for three days and he said uh we did it in five and I thought he said I don't think they minded I thought I think they mind it's probably quite a lot because five days to do a little novel is no so you've got you know I think I think people underestimate uh how how much work is involved all right let's let's let's uh it's fascinating stuff and um we there's so much more that we need to talk about because uh your life is pretty incredible Gordon um so in 2017 as I mentioned at the beginning Gordon received an MV for his audio called an incredible achievement um can you talk about that experience of meeting the queen of actually receiving this award for for all the work that you've done um I mean it I can only imagine it would have felt incredible but it would be nice to hear from you as to how it works.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

It was unbelievable. I mean I got the I I got it I got a letter in the post which looked very very ominous very very formal and I to be honest I was sitting here at my desk and I put it to one side and I thought I'm not gonna read I'm not gonna open that yet it looked I didn't I couldn't imagine what it would be but it looked very very formal and made it made me a bit scared. So a couple of days later it was still on my desk I thought I've got to open this I made myself a coffee thought okay prepare for the worst I opened the envelope and looked at the this message and it was saying we'd like you if you'd like to accept the NMBE and it was completely uh unexpected a completely um well a mind blowing I couldn't believe it I read it I've read the first sentence about three or four times and what what but um you know how when you're you when you're younger you think of course if I was offered a something like a knighthood or an MBE or something I would I would turn it down you know I don't believe it all but of course um it took me about two seconds to say I will accept it I accepted it of course partly for a little boy growing up on Tyne side in Fishmonger's son from Biker uh in Newcastle um who wanted to be an actor from the time he was before he even knew what an actor was what he just knew as soon as he went into a theater aged about five or six this is what I want to do without even knowing what that meant. And everybody at that time growing up in the 50s with a Geordie accent me of course I'm talking about everybody was saying you've got me an actor you know with your voice because in those days uh you could it was impossible this is before Albert Finney and Tom Courtney made northern accents popular but long before anybody even knew what a Geordie accent was outside of Newcastle. And so I accepted it for that little boy who was so determined he was going to do it he was so convinced and he listened he didn't listen to any of these people who say you can't do this you can't this is not this is not going to be what you're going to be able to do. And he went he went for it and I thought this is for him this is why I'm accepting this but I also accepted it for the industry because when I first started people were rather disparaging about recording audiobooks they didn't think it was a proper job. Many many people said to me you know oh you you record books for the blind don't you in a very disparaging way um and and a lot of actors wouldn't do it they didn't think it was as I say proper job or they would do it between other proper jobs in a fill-in now of course it's so different everybody wants to the the uh the things that most actors say to me more than anything is how do I get into this into this world that you're you inhabit and um the answer is um it's really hard now uh I got in early and I wasn't I was very happy to it was another job for me and I loved it. But you were asking about the queen well um I've been told by very good authority that I wouldn't get the queen by that time she wasn't doing it very much almost not at all it's an hour and a half uh no yeah about an hour and a half two hours but she's got to stand there and see all these people one after the other and um so the person I knew who worked at Buckingham Palace said it'll be obviously Prince Charles or uh Prince William and maybe Princess Anne but it won't be the queen. So that was okay because well I'd like to of course be nice to have the queen but I thought that's okay because you have to learn all the protocols. You have to say there's you have to say Your Majesty when she first speaks to you then ma'am to rhyme with jam It says in the boat. That's what you've got to do. Not mom, not ma'am. All these things, walk backwards, incredible. You know, all this stuff. And I thought, well, I don't have to worry about that. I was Dr. Louis the Queen. So I arrived on the day, we're in this incredible gallery. All of us who are going to get the awards, various awards, drinking water and um, very nice water, royal water. Royal water, yeah. Yes. And I saw this guy with lots of medals standing there, some sort of usher. And I just said to him, you know, who actually is doing the ceremony today? Because I didn't know. And he said, It's the queen. And I almost said to him, No, it's not the queen. I have very good authority that it's not the queen. And he showed me the the program, the of the uh all the people who are going to be given it. And on the front, it said it mentioned Her Majesty the Queen. Incredible. So that suddenly made me terrified. What have I got to remember? I've got to say your majesty, I've got to say, ma'am, I've got to walk backwards. I every I hadn't rehearsed all that in my head. And it was, I'm not someone who gets nervous about uh performing. I've learned it, you know, I as long as I can rehearse, I'm absolutely fine. Whatever it is, as long as I even it's a best man speech, as long as I can rehearse it, I'm fine. But of course, you can't rehearse this. You can't say, Come here, do it again. So I was I was so nervous. But we had she was lovely, and um I talked about audiobooks, of course, and she listened, she looked at me with those beautiful eyes of hers, and she didn't take her eyes off me for a moment, and I made her laugh. Um, and it but I have but mind you, I I think she had no idea what an audiobook was. Uh, because uh I said to her, um, I think it's fantastic that uh you know it's it's something that's natural. People, when they're very, very small, like to have stories told to them. And it was a very long pause, and she said, Yes, yes, I suppose they do. Because I don't think she'd even, I think it suddenly, really, suddenly hit me that probably when she was very little, nobody had read stories to her. But it was an incredible event, um, extraordinary. It didn't mean anything. I mean, the fact that I'm an MBE means nothing at all. I mean, what does it mean? But it it, as I said before, it was something that was, it was not in a kind of way, it wasn't it wasn't something that I think, oh great, great, great, I've got, I mean, shoved away in a drawer somewhere. I'm not going to be able to use it. But it was just, I just think for the whole of all of us that all record audiobooks, all of us to recognize that actually being a narrator of audiobooks is part of this great profession that we belong to. It's not something peripheral, but it's part of it, I think. And I think that MBA, I was the first person to be given uh such an award just for audiobooks. A lot of people, a lot of actors have got it who are who do who are well known for doing audiobooks, but they get it for the whole body of work. I didn't get it for anything except my audiobooks. My other, all the other work that I did, it might have been significant or interesting or fascinating or wonderful, but I wouldn't have got an MBE for it. It was just because of my audiobook work. And so I thought that was something. That was something, something of an achievement, not just for me, but for all of us who work in the industry.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

It really is. It's uh it's amazing. And and on top of that, uh, you also have an autobiography, which is incredible. And it's called speaking volumes. And uh and and also you've got to narrate your own audiobook version of that. It's it's incredible. So please tell us more about that.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

One of the companies I record for asked me quite a few years ago if I'd go around to libraries and readers' groups talking about audiobooks and reading extracts from books I'd recorded for that particular company. And to make it more interesting, I talked about my journey. Uh, how I, as this guy from Newcastle, became the person who recorded all these books. And I it was full of anecdotes about working in rep and about my, you know, it was it was quite funny, and it was wonderful for me because having doing recording wall-to-wall audiobooks, the downside is you don't have an audience, or at least you don't have an instant audience, you don't have any reaction coming back to you straight away. And so doing these talks was great. I didn't have any script. Um, I was performing in a sense, playing the part of me, uh talking to an audience, and it was great, great fun. I loved it. And I loved the laugh. I loved when I was reading an extract from a book. I chose one extract, which is very dramatic, but a boy called Kurt, who comes back to his flat and finds the flat is um empty, and he knows his partners, he doesn't know what's gone on, and I describe him going into his partner's room where it's his office, and and I take the audience with me on this journey, and he's very getting more and more nervous, and eventually he goes into the room, and on his desk is an envelope, uh, and he knows that's significant, and I just and I take you know he puts off uh reading the envelope, and I just take the audience with me, and it's great feeling because they're waiting to know what's in that envelope. And he opens the envelope, he picks out the piece of paper, and he reads, My dearest Kurt, and then I stop, and the audience is going, What? What happened? What's happened? What's and of course that's exactly what it's about. It's taking them on a journey and then taking the carpet from under them. They want to know what happens next. That's the essence of telling the story. So but uh that so so I love doing those. And after the talk, sometimes people would come up to me and say, Um, you know, these are these are fascinating uh anecdotes. This is really interesting, you should make it into a book. And I thought I never thought anything of it. And then about three or four years ago now, um this lady came up and said the usual things. I think you should make this into a book. It's fascinating, it's informative, because you're talking about recording books as well as how you got into it. And um, the lady, the librarian, said, I said that lady was very nice, that who was saying very nice things about, you know, I should make it into a book. And she said, Oh, but do you not know who that lady is? She said, Well, no writer from lives in this area. And I thought, well, if a writer thinks I should make it into a book, and so I thought, maybe I'll try. So I expanded it, wrote it. The writing wasn't difficult. I found that quite easy because based on my, you know, the stories were the same stories, and I think I can write pretty well. Um, the time, finding the time to do it was aged, took me months to write it. And I sent it off to about three different publishers, and eventually one came back and said, Yeah, let's do it. And the company that organized the talks that I record for, they were the ones that came through and said, Um, I think this is a story that should be told, and people would be interested to who listen to audiobooks to hear about the process. And so they negotiated to do the audiobook version of it. Um, and who's going to record the audiobook? Uh, let's think who would be the best duration for this book. So, of course, of course, it was me, and I recorded it, and that was a strange experience, not particularly easy to say my own words.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

No, I can imagine that would be slightly odd, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 51:33

But I I think I haven't actually it it only came out um a couple of months ago, and I haven't actually I've listened to a bit of it, but um, I I tend not to listen to my own stuff, but at some point I I I will listen and hear listen to the whole story. The trouble is I'm working on the book and doing all the various versions and rewriting and so on. I got I thought I don't want to, I know the story so well, I don't want to hear it yet again. Um I I I've got to at some point let this book go and let other people uh read it and listen to it. And um, no, it was a great achievement, and I I I'm very happy that it makes other people, it's had some very nice reviews. The reaction has been really, really good. Um and so that that was very satisfying. It was um it was a kind of an ending in a sort of way. Uh, but it just shows that you have to learn new things, new tricks all the time. I never thought I'd be recording from home. I'm not technically clever enough, and yet uh I recorded last year during the first lockdown, I started my very first book from home in my little studio here at home. And um, I've done loads of books since then, so I've got used to that. But I must say that I miss the studio experience going to a studio, going to work and um and having somebody else there, somebody else to talk to, somebody else, you know. Um I I miss that very much.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

No, I can imagine. Yeah, right, right. Where is the best place for people to reach out to you if they want to listen to your autobiography, if they want to uh listen to some of your stories that you've been talking about, um, if they just want to say hello. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Yeah, please do, please do. Um my web my website's got everything you need to know, and it's also got a link so you can contact me uh by my email. Uh my website is just simply gordongriffin.com. Okay. Easy. Which is also my Wikipedia page, too.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

Amazing. Nice and simple. Great. Um, okay, good. So before we finish up, Gordon, uh, because I know you're a very busy man, you're probably in the middle of uh recording as we speak, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_03 53:49

Well, when we when we finish when we finish this, absolutely, I'll be going to my my my booth to record. There we go. Can't have a day off.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

We're gonna play a little game. Um, it's would you rather? And I play it with all of my guests. I'm gonna ask you five questions. And uh if you can don't give it too much thought, the first thing that pops to your mind. Uh, are you ready? Yep. Wonderful. All right, number one, would you rather live in Antarctica or the Sahara Desert?

SPEAKER_03 54:23

Um, I'm somebody who dashes around all the time. I'm always uh dashing here and there. And I think in the Sahara and in the Antarctic, you wouldn't be able to do that much. I think I'd I think I'd go for um Antarctic. I come from the northeast anyway, the weather's rubbish. Uh no, I'd be very cold up there, but probably it'd be colder in Antarctic. Probably not. So I would I would probably I'd choose that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Okay, very good. Number two, uh, would you rather be poor and work at a job you love or rich and work at a job you hate?

SPEAKER_03 54:58

Well, I I riches don't mean much to me anyway. I would certainly hate to do a job I hated, so I'd go, I'd do, I'd do the job I love, um, which um isn't particularly well paid anyway. But yeah, that's what I think.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Very good, very good. Uh, number three, this is another money-based question. Uh, would you rather be filthy rich and live 400 years ago or be poor and live today?

SPEAKER_03 55:28

Oh, I don't think I'd want to live 400 years ago. Uh, but I do I'd also not be interested in being rich anyway. Uh that's not not priority with me. I mean, today, I mean, the the times we're going through now are not particularly great. How are they? But 400 years ago, I'm trying to think what will be happening then. No, I'll go for I'll go for now. Okay. I don't want the money.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

Don't want the money. Okay. Uh, number four, would you rather spend two weeks stuck in a psychiatric hospital or at an airport?

SPEAKER_03 56:03

Oh goodness. Um, I well, I don't mind air. I don't I've had really bad experiences at airports, but um have once in a Porto, a Porto airport, being there for about 13 hours overnight. Oh, terrible. But I don't mind airports. Um, as long as you've got something to do, as long as you've got your laptop, as long as you've got some books. Um, no, I would choose that.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Choose the airport, okay. And last but not least, for five, would you rather babysit a crying infant for a day or have an unwanted house guest for a week?

SPEAKER_03 56:38

Uh I'll choose the baby.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 56:40

A crying baby. Um I don't think I've experienced a baby crying for a whole day. I have.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

And it's painful.

SPEAKER_03 56:51

Well, um, I think I'd choose that. Um uh yeah, I'd probably choose that.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Choose the baby. All right, very good. Okay, we're wrapping up now, Gordon. Thank you so much for today. Uh, before you leave, could you give us your final thoughts for today? Gordon Griffin's final thoughts for all of our listeners out there who have been inspired by our conversation. And um, yeah, something uplifting and positive about life, about attitudes. Uh, that will be true. Big one. Big one to end. Is that all?

SPEAKER_03 57:22

Is that all nothing major, nothing major. You haven't given me time to prepare for this. Okay, I'll go back to I'll I'll go back to that little boy um who uh that was me. And all the time, all through my life, uh when I was 13, uh uh I heard about a local rep in in Northeast Timeout, a weekly rep, and they were looking for schoolboys to be in a play uh set in a public school during the school holidays, a professional company. I also always wanted, I always envied um the actor Jeremy Spencer, and he was in the West End doing a play about a boy king called The Sleeping Prince. And I auditioned for uh an amateur production, one of the very good amateur company in Newcastle for that part, the part that I'd always wanted to play. And here was the choice. I was also offered a part, a very good part, as a schoolboy in a boy with a professional company. My instinct, even then, age 13, was to do the professional job. Not because I got paid, but because this was the where I did, you know, not an amateur production, even though it was a wonderful part. So I say, follow your instinct. My instinct's always been pretty sound. Listen to advice from other people, but follow your instinct. I've always done that. And sometimes it's taken me, I've accepted some jobs that have taken me on strange journeys, but I've never ever regretted that. And so that's what I would say. People will give you advice, but you have to be true to yourself and do what you think is right. You may be wrong, but that's the best way to do it. And for me anyway, it's worked. Well, thank you so much for that.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

Well that dude, that is uh a stunning, a stunning final thought. Thank you so much, Gordon. I really appreciate your time and uh for coming on today. Uh, and I will uh I can't wait for this episode to come out. It's gonna be amazing, and I hope everyone enjoys it as much as I have.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

When I was recording the autobiography of Chris Bonington, uh I was daunted by the massive list of words to Snowdonian villages, uh Gaelic ridges, Tibetan pastors. Amazingly, with my producer's help, we found most of them online. I've watched loads of YouTube films of Bonnington's expeditions, hoping that someone would say the name I walked a topic. I recorded the books that have two characters speaking corners. I don't mean the corporate action but the actual language I have a lot of telephone numbers of the public and the numbers. It turned out to be the logo but also. I cut now a code name. So I remember picking the main and pronounced fungus to find the points. And we're being chopped up and used into the words. It was a critical part of the process. It was a title, I got the pronunciation correct. And therefore nothing to do with Spanish. I never phone a Spanish friend who worked in the catering industry in Mallorca. He didn't know the word either. But he gave me the phone number of a friend of his who was from Parma and who worked for a travel company. Another call to Mallorca. The friend was charming and apologetic. He couldn't help. He'd not heard of this rare founder now. Well, there was only one more thing I could think of. I needed to speak to the writer of the book, Roderick Jeffreys. Although English Jeffries lived in Mallorca, so it involved yet another call to the island. I explained who I was and then I recorded his book. I was able to say truthfully how much I enjoyed them. He was very courteous. He'd enjoyed my recordings. So we were off a good start. I reminded him of the part of the book that I was about to record and then spelled out the word I needed to pronounce. How do you say it? I asked I have no idea. I made it up.