With growing momentum behind a shift to ‘regenerative’ agriculture, what does it mean, how can its impact be measured, and what are the benefits in terms of climate resilience and food production?
Join Intertek’s Global Innovations & Quality Manager Patrick McNamara, who meets with Intertek SAI Global’s UK Agri Relationship Manager Robin Levin and Arable & Fresh Produce Scheme Manager Marie Keyes to discuss.
Follow us on- Intertek's Assurance In Action || Twitter || LinkedIn.
With growing momentum behind a shift to ‘regenerative’ agriculture, what does it mean, how can its impact be measured, and what are the benefits in terms of climate resilience and food production?
Join Intertek’s Global Innovations & Quality Manager Patrick McNamara, who meets with Intertek SAI Global’s UK Agri Relationship Manager Robin Levin and Arable & Fresh Produce Scheme Manager Marie Keyes to discuss.
Follow us on- Intertek's Assurance In Action || Twitter || LinkedIn.
00;00;12;15 - 00;00;37;01
Speaker 1
Welcome everyone. My name is Rowena Curtis, UK Marketing Manager for Intertek Business Assurance. And I'm joined today by Intertek Global Innovations and Quality Manager Patrick McNamara. I agree. Relationship Manager Robyn Levin and our Fresh Produce Scheme manager, Marie Case. Regenerative agriculture is a term increasingly being used, but what does it mean and how can it help with us?
00;00;37;02 - 00;00;41;15
Speaker 1
I'll hand over to Patrick to facilitate the discussion.
00;00;41;21 - 00;01;03;03
Speaker 2
Thank you, Rowena. And hello to everyone and thank you for taking the time to join us today. Now, in this series, we've previously looked at new techniques in agriculture, and we know that the climate experts have, in a series of reports, cited the need for a less impactful form of food production as a key requirement in mitigate the effects of climate change.
00;01;04;04 - 00;01;36;00
Speaker 2
That's the term regenerative, and the phrase regenerative farming have more risks. They've become almost synonymous with the positive approach to agriculture, one which can not only provide sustainable food, but potentially reverse some of the negative effects of earlier agricultural methods. But what is regenerative farming and obviously different or even different at all? Is it following a set of agreed rules, or is it simply understanding the best option for the local environment in each case?
00;01;37;10 - 00;02;03;06
Speaker 2
Come those companies claiming to be regenerative justify decline. And if so, what metrics might we use to demonstrate the positive effects of their actions? Is regenerative farming actually just what our ancestors might call? Well, farming? Or is it embracing the best of new technology? So to help us wade through these issues this morning, I have with a Robin Levin and Mary case from Intertek.
00;02;03;06 - 00;02;30;26
Speaker 2
As I said, good morning to both of you. I know if we start with definition, which has been one of those things which seems to be quite difficult to to itemize. Is there a definition? If so, is it one that can be universally applied, or is it something that is so unique to its environment that it's going to be quite difficult to perhaps.
00;02;30;27 - 00;02;37;20
Speaker 2
Well, if I could turn to you first, Robin, in terms of is there a definition for regenerative agriculture?
00;02;39;14 - 00;03;08;12
Speaker 3
Thank you, Patrick. Yes, there is a definition, a growing definition. I'm going to let Marie come in with some of the detail, but it's what I will say is it's based on agroecology. And if you're not sure what that is, it's a it's a holistic approach that seeks to reconcile agriculture and local communities with natural processes for the common benefit of nature and livelihoods.
00;03;09;04 - 00;03;10;12
Speaker 3
You're not that, Marie.
00;03;11;22 - 00;03;44;28
Speaker 4
Yes. Thank you, Robin. Thank you, Patrick. And I think we touch on that slightly. It does mean many different things to many different people. But regenerative agriculture, as the word would imply, is is more than just sustainability, sustaining what we're doing now. It's more about an active rebuilding of systems within our agricultural landscapes, be it the biodiversity with which we farm in the landscape around us and recovering that or soil health and and building soil health within our farming soils that we have today.
00;03;45;27 - 00;03;48;24
Speaker 4
But again, many different things to many different people.
00;03;49;18 - 00;04;15;07
Speaker 3
And it's true as well that we're we're not just using old techniques that probably we haven't used more recently, but we're actually using a lot of really great technology to get the best state of using revisiting some of the old practices. And it's that technology that makes this unique and is going to drive us forward.
00;04;15;21 - 00;04;49;17
Speaker 4
When we talk about technology, I mean, we are very much based here in the UK, quite advanced in those sort of opportunities. But when we talk about regenerative agriculture globally, not everybody has access or the same type of access to that technology. And even farmers within the UK here, whether it be the demographic of farmer that we have or the the option to have access to that technology, you know, it it does vary depending on the background of the farm, the country and the background of the farmer as well.
00;04;50;15 - 00;05;25;02
Speaker 3
I think when we talk about the technology and understanding that we have now, if you say in the picture behind me, you probably can't if you just listen to this. But we've got a field here that's been under grass for a very long period of time and it's had animals grazing upon it. And we know that the weight of bacteria and fungi in the topsoil beneath it weighs far more than the life above it equivalent of 2000 sheep per hectare.
00;05;25;27 - 00;05;54;26
Speaker 3
Just the weight of life, material, life and organic material in the soil. And what we're trying to find out now and what we are doing is harnessing that natural process to the benefit of everybody, the soil itself, the livestock and crops and people above it. And it's it's utilizing it and keeping it sustained as well that we're now doing.
00;05;54;26 - 00;06;22;10
Speaker 3
We can identify various types of bacteria and how they coexist in the soil and the fungi. And and these are the techniques we're using along with bigger industry manufacturers, who are also working to improve what they're doing with nutrition and fertilizers and cultivation and so on. So we can all combine to create a much more modern vision of regenerative farming.
00;06;23;29 - 00;06;48;02
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that that's really interesting, Robin, and thank you both for the comments there. And I think this is one of the reasons why it's so difficult to define it. One or two lines. And there's some amazing work being done in the Sahel and in West Africa in terms of regenerating impoverished land that has been impoverished by the mono cropping for many, many years.
00;06;48;11 - 00;07;15;12
Speaker 2
So I think it is about local food environments, and that's something that's been reinforced by the IPCC, by the World Health Organization and by the United Nations as well. So that's really interesting in terms of if we can't define it, is it possible then to have a set of standards or a set of metrics that we can use to actually measure people's contributions to this?
00;07;15;21 - 00;07;41;07
Speaker 2
Because as people start to claim being regenerative, there is perhaps a commercial advantage that they gain by telling so. So if I could come back to you perhaps on is the possibility of a standard. Is there a possibility of grouping a number of standards in order that we might have some reasonable metrics by which to measure regeneration?
00;07;42;17 - 00;08;14;23
Speaker 3
Yes. I'll start the ball rolling. I think certainly we need to understand the techniques so that they can be employed and deployed. So in a number of situations, we've also got to understand why farmers would actually want to engage in regenerative farming. Is it the public that wants it? Is it the supermarkets, the retailers that want it? Is it the politicians?
00;08;15;03 - 00;08;48;23
Speaker 3
You know, where is the benefit? And I think what is emerging is that creating a bigger carbon capacity in the soil, which we need to improve our farming. And then that's one reason for doing it, but it does require investment from the farmer. And so so to be to deploy that investment, the farmer really needs to have a pretty cool, strict, if you like, guideline about what they want to do.
00;08;48;23 - 00;09;22;28
Speaker 3
So a standard would really help. But whether it would be a standard allowed a standard that on its own for regenerative farming, the standard or whether it would be one particular technique or one particular farming type and therefore whether it should sit alongside existing standards that farmers are using anyway. And we shouldn't forget that most of the standards we have already have some quite good pedigree with sustainability and improving.
00;09;22;28 - 00;10;12;16
Speaker 3
So maybe for me maybe regeneration could sit alongside those standards. There are some already some initial thoughts and ideas about standards that are emerging, but I think for some to take them up, they could be techniques they could fit alongside existing standards that might be easier. So for them to to be successfully understood and marketed. There's also another area of this, which is the effect on carbon capture and the fact that it could be worth carbon credits and therefore it could be worth paying either by government or individual companies who are wishing to invest in carbon credits for farmers.
00;10;12;16 - 00;10;31;12
Speaker 3
And so we have some examples from one or two companies are involved in this where they can trade those carbon credits to the benefit of the farmer. And the standard behind that would really help make that clear to people exactly how those carbon savings have been made.
00;10;32;24 - 00;11;06;09
Speaker 4
I think it's worth noting when we talk about the possibility of the standards is the the already we have an audit burden upon farms especially here in the UK several audits that they had to do things that they have to do to reach or to meet retailer demands. So we've got the audit burden of doing that. It also comes with a financial burden as well because they have to pay for just the audit and not let alone all the other things that they have to get involved with in terms of that building their regenerative agricultural portfolio.
00;11;06;21 - 00;11;37;24
Speaker 4
So at the moment, farmers are expected to take all of those financial risks. And when we talk about carbon credits and things being available through a type of audit, those financials need to be accessible to all farmers, not just those who have the technical function within a business. There are a lot of smaller farmers out there. So when we're talking about standards, as Walk In said, there are already a lot of schemes out there that do already encompass this.
00;11;39;01 - 00;12;05;02
Speaker 4
There is obviously still a financial burden associated to that, but it does need to be very much accessible for everybody. And different things are within different companies. So within different countries, sorry to say, not in just different technologies but different outcomes. Now we've got to measure these things to be able to monitor the outcomes and and get that financial reward.
00;12;05;24 - 00;12;15;26
Speaker 4
So it's it's difficult to get a standard that would cover everybody across every global farming business.
00;12;15;26 - 00;12;35;02
Speaker 3
But it could be that the financial reward will come for us in the UK and in the form of the environment, land management, a subsidy system proposed by government. But it's not clear how that will really operate yet.
00;12;36;25 - 00;13;06;04
Speaker 2
That's interesting and there are some very good points there about the number of standards that already exist and I think your points about the burden of cost in terms of an already financially stricken sector, I think is really, really pertinent. But there is also the burden of risk to farmers in changing techniques that they're familiar with. And the burden of risk is entirely on the farmer, not the beneficiaries from their actions.
00;13;06;16 - 00;13;34;28
Speaker 2
And perhaps that's something that we can think about and moving on. And Rob, in your last point is quite pertinent. Is there a particular type of farming that lends itself to regenerative practices, livestock farming, arable farming combination or maybe something completely different? Is there a way of broadly applying the principles, or is it best served by a particular type of farming?
00;13;35;03 - 00;14;12;13
Speaker 3
I think I think some farmers might listen to this and actually feel slightly insulted because they're probably employing what we might call regenerative techniques anyway. For example, there might be many people, particularly in the northern part of the country, who are under sowing their spring barley, for example, with grass, and thereby saving at least one series of cultivations, probably reducing disease risk, you know, maximizing the production of the field.
00;14;13;17 - 00;14;41;20
Speaker 3
Other examples, you know, that people will graze land with livestock over a period of time, which will restore fertility. They'll let and grow a crop for a year or two. And we're already talking about practices that organic farmers are doing. You know, it's organic farming, regenerative, yet probably it is the principally regenerative. And a lot of people already doing this.
00;14;43;10 - 00;15;21;21
Speaker 3
It's getting people to do more. We've seen some great examples of mob grazing, introducing livestock into an arable situation, even just like a brief, temporary basis which can help the livestock supplier by extending the feeding period, the grazing forage period, an outlay. Arable farmer by simply proving fertility and so on. So there there's some great examples of what we're doing and already it might encourage people to look back on.
00;15;22;13 - 00;16;00;16
Speaker 3
We used to graze crops, particularly winter crops that are grown proud with sheep, in particular sometimes with livestock, depending on the soil type. And it would reduce disease, it would improve fertility, tread around the roots, press it down, is fantastic. And those general things can be done everywhere with those broadacre style crops. We've got some of the types of farming that already lend themselves to biodiversity itself with few change in techniques fruit growing fruit, particularly tree fruit.
00;16;01;16 - 00;16;23;14
Speaker 3
Bush fruit. You can have a large amount of biodiversity and even livestock being involved, particularly trees, I hasten say. So yeah, I think it's, it's choosing the type of regenerative technique to fit your particular farm. That's the key.
00;16;25;16 - 00;16;28;05
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;16;28;05 - 00;16;50;16
Speaker 4
Actually agree with Robin wholeheartedly on that. There are so many different farms, but if we just look at the UK alone, so many different cell types, so many different areas of the country with different climatic conditions, whether you are on the east east coast of this country and you know, very, very dry to the west where we're having much higher rainfall periods, very different soil types.
00;16;50;23 - 00;17;13;09
Speaker 4
Every farm is facing its own individual challenges and some of those won't be suitable to having livestock on it. And again, I think we come back to this definition of what is regenerative. I don't think we can necessarily narrow it down to types of farming. I think it must include all types of farming in its own individual way.
00;17;13;19 - 00;17;34;14
Speaker 4
And I think most farmers not all, but most farms do have that sort of one thing in common, and that is the soil in which they farm upon. And I think if we start from the ground up and we start looking at the soil health and working our way from there, everybody can look at the soil health. We can do it without huge amounts of cost input.
00;17;35;00 - 00;18;01;16
Speaker 4
We've got the government elms at the moment where they're looking at things like organic matter. They can do visual assessments, we can do earthworm counts, we can do various assessments, HDB to a really good soil health card scorecard that people can use. And once we start monitoring, I think no matter what farming system that you've got, if you're working from the soil up, we can start measuring and then we can start monitoring.
00;18;01;16 - 00;18;28;01
Speaker 4
And then you can look, even if it's small steps at a time you can look at those improvements or possibly even a particular farming practice that sets you back. We can learn from those and we can work our way forward and and look to regenerative farming in in smaller, easy steps, potentially reducing the risks. And then it can be applicable to all all farmers, I think be my take there.
00;18;28;02 - 00;19;00;11
Speaker 2
That's fantastic. Thank you both so much for that. And I think both of your points speak directly to the United Nations and the IPCC. His take on this, which is there is a best solution for every single local environment and you're quite right, Gary, and in some cases that is crazy cow. And anybody who ever used the phrase, it's not the car, it's the whole bill understands that there are cases in which you cannot grow anything.
00;19;00;11 - 00;19;30;18
Speaker 2
But the best environment for that particular environment is by grazing cattle. So it is about the local food environment and the best environment, local for your own particular area. And unfortunately, I think that's all we have time for today. I guarantee you we could talk a great length on this subject. I have that i thank you both Robin Levin and breaks taking part in today's session that was genuinely interesting and insightful.
00;19;31;02 - 00;19;54;09
Speaker 2
While there are challenges in scaling up regenerative agriculture and there's definitely some way to go in terms of increasing consumer understanding, I think one thing is clear that there are some benefits and a lot of money positive aspects of the approach to consider. And I'm sure as the scope and number of regenerative practices increases, your expertize will be very valuable and calls on a lot more.
00;19;54;09 - 00;20;00;00
Speaker 2
I think. Thank you both again that I'll hand back to ruin to close today's session.
00;20;01;01 - 00;20;26;24
Speaker 1
Thanks, Patrick. That sums up the topic perfectly and thanks to everyone for listening to this episode. If you would like details of our services for the ag receptor, please get in touch via intertek dot com. Have a great rest of your day.