Welcome to the For the Gospel podcast where we're all about providing sound doctrine for everyday people. I'm your host, Costi Hinn, and on today's episode, I've invited For the Gospel key contributor and pastor of Mission Bible Church in Costa Mesa, California, Anthony Wood, to talk about how to discern the times we're living in with wars, we got rumors of wars, we got theological and societal conflict, and as most of you know and are seeing a ton of compromise within the church. My brother, thank you for being with us today.
SPEAKER_01Hey, as always, it is good to be with you. Sure love you.
SPEAKER_00Love you too, man. And a lot of our listeners have been asking, and we want to provide clear biblical and balanced answers about the times we're living in. And before we jump into those questions and those answers, I want you to speak to the two unhealthy extremes or the caricatures that I think we see a lot when we talk about the end times and we talk about what's happening in culture. You got unhealthy extreme number one. Speak to this. Everything is the mark of the beast, and anyone trying to discern the times is like, you know, some John Haggy Pat Robertson fanatic who's predicting the date of the end of the world, and y'all need to go order your end of the world food supply from Jim Baker. Speak to the caricature there first.
SPEAKER_01Um, this would be that everything is mark of the beast, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um well, I mean, God hasn't given us all the details. That would be the simple answer to that. Uh, what we're doing when we study biblical prophecy is we are sinking, you know, modern and historic names. We're crossing a 2,500 or sometimes 3,000-year time bridge. And so we want to be careful. We want to be careful of fear tactics, we want to be careful, careful of extremes. I think we want to be careful of certainly creative license. Um, you know, I don't want to pick on anyone, but the last 20, 30 years in the evangelical world, uh, books and movies and Kirk Cameron running around has kind of become a something that a lot of kids picture. Um and I think creative license can sometimes lead to um difficulty for children who've been taught since they were young this is what the end's gonna look like. And when it doesn't happen, it kind of can burst a bubble. Um, I also think we want to be careful of date setting. And the news changes hourly, even right now with Ukraine and Russia. And so what happens is if we push fear tactics and we push creative license, we naturally will end up with um some form of a date setting. And that's where things really get difficult. So those would be some warnings, uh, probably just some guideposts for people that tend to the extreme of everything being the end of days.
SPEAKER_00That's super helpful. One other unhealthy extreme, then, is the pendulum swings the other way. When it comes to eschatology, Mr. Anthony Wood and Costi Hinn, I'm not pre-millennial, I'm not a millennial, hey, I'm a panel millennial. It's all gonna pan out. Who cares, you guys? Get over it or whatever. I speak to the caricature of whatever. It doesn't matter. Bring some wisdom there.
SPEAKER_01Well, listen, that's unbiblical. I mean, the reality is you know, God give us his word, and when God speaks, you don't just not listen. Prophecy is in the Bible, and it's in the Bible to stir holy living. First John 2.28, right? I want you to have boldness and no shame at his coming. The idea is I don't want you to be caught unawares. God wants you vigilant, he wants us motivated, he wants us holy. Uh, even more than that, this is something that comes to mind is prophecy is in the Bible to build confidence and to uh inspire our worship as well. Um, really, prophecy is history written by God in advance. Isaiah 46, 10, I am God, there is no one like me, declaring the end from the beginning from ancient times, things which have not yet been done. I mean, God is the God who's able to write and when he or speak, and when he speaks, men wrote it, and it was significant, and we want to obey and submit ourselves, uh, not say that there's a part of the Bible that I'll obey and a part of it that I'll choose to ignore.
SPEAKER_00Well said, well said. Uh so speak to some necessary prophetic warnings, some disclaimers, anything you would front load this kind of conversation with.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely we want to we want to be careful. Um, I think the big one would be to understand the two things we just mentioned going into a prophecy conversation, but the other one would be we want to make sure to interpret the Bible literally and historically. Uh, that is so important. Uh, authorial intent is the big word that they use in scholastic circles. The idea that when an author wrote, inspired by the Holy Spirit, uh, he actually was writing for a specific audience in a specific time. And I want to make sure that when I'm reading the Bible, that I'm understanding that and that what God said then, he he meant then and he still means today. And God doesn't change his tune, God doesn't uh call audibles at the line of scrimmage per se. It's not like he wrote it and spoke it and then later on it changed and became allegory. Um I think that's important, consistent interpretation. Um, so that would be kind of an important reminder. Uh, and really to be honest, that's what sets up the backdrop of of eschatology or prophecy. Um, you know, the idea that you may have, you know, you're most of the listeners probably have heard of premillennialism. Uh, the idea that if you interpret the Bible literally all the way through, you end up pre-millennial, meaning before the coming 1,000-year reign of Christ. And that really is the backdrop to all good Bible prophecy. Um, it might even be good to just talk through some premillennial backs, you know, broad strokes just to make sure everyone has an understanding of that.
SPEAKER_00Um, I would.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, dude. I think the baseline text for getting our mind around premillennialism is Daniel's 70th week. In Daniel chapter 9, uh verse 25, 26, and 27, there's this little prediction, this prophecy that comes from an angel to Daniel, and it simply outlines what would be the advancement of the Gentile people until the return of Christ. Um, Daniel 9, 25, from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. So there'd be some big decree, and then they would, you know, rebuild Jerusalem, and then Messiah the Prince would come after 69 weeks. Really, it's units of seven, so 483,000 or 483 years. And then verse 26, he says, then after the 62 weeks, the Messiah will be cut off. We know he was crucified, that's happened. And the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city in the sanctuary. The prince to come, that's speaking of Rome, will destroy the city that happened in 70 AD. And then there's a gap in there between verse 26 and 27. And Daniel goes on and writes, and he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he'll put a stop to sacrifice, and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate. So there's going to be basically out of the 69 weeks, which turns into 483 years, Messiah would come. Then there would be a break, which we're in right now, the church age, or 2,000 years in, and then there would be one week left. That's the whole point of this prophecy. One week left, seven years left.
SPEAKER_00Seven years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So you just boil that prophecy down, and you turn out to the decree of Arta Xerxes, which was 444 BC. You've got 483 years to Messiah came. We know the date on that, and came in 30 AD.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01And then you have the people of the prince that would destroy the city. That was Rome. And then there's a break, 2,000 years for the church age. Then you got the firm covenant that's established in this final seven years, that's the world ruler or leader in the Antichrist with Israel. And then there's a midway break in that treaty. So that's kind of a uh maybe a little bit detailed. Um, but what you do is you take that baseline and then you take the rest of scripture. We call it the analogy of scripture, and we simply see how the progressive revelation as the Bible unfolded plugs into that. You know, Jesus talked in Matthew chapter 24, you remember, and talked about the abomination of desolation. That's from Daniel. Uh, Paul talks about the rapture and the return of the Lord in 2 Thessalonians 2. Uh, Peter talks about it in 2 Peter 3. Uh, in Revelation 5 to 19, John gives us the most detailed explanation of that season of world history. And it's pretty basic. The church is removed from the scene. There's a world leader who seeks to rule. There is a seven-year period of tribulation or judgment in the Old Testament called Jacob's Trouble. It culminates with the return of Christ and the 1,000-year reign of Christ, and then at the end, a new heaven and a new earth. And so, you know, all we're doing when you hear big words like premillennialism is saying, what does the Bible say literally and historically? And then how should that uh look as and when the Lord should return? Does that kind of make sense?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. So you're saying is these events take place pre-before the millennium, which is the literal thousand-year reign of Christ that we read about in Revelation chapter 20, that's where Satan is bound for a thousand years. All of this would take place prior to that. So the seven-year tribulation, those are things. So that would be a basic explanation.
SPEAKER_01Just a basic, honest, literal interpretation of the Bible. Yeah, taking God out his word. Yep.
SPEAKER_00So well said. So now I want to ask you, are we watching the world stage set for the return of Christ with all that's happening? Where people, even there were people some saying, like, well, the you know, forced vaccine passports, you can't buy or sell, you can't travel if you don't have this and don't have that. And a lot of people were saying, you know, is the is the vaccine the mark of the beast, and if is this is or that is. In the end, regardless of where people would land on certain things, do you see a pattern in which there is heightened government control, there's limitations on travel, like we've never seen. We grew up in this world, if you're 30, 35, 40, we have never seen limitations on travel if you don't have this thing. Do things like that, even if they're not the mark of the beast, do they set the stage for a moment where government can begin to dictate you can't buy or sell, or wars? I mean, talk about the setup here, maybe.
SPEAKER_01Well, absolutely they they do. I mean, we're seeing massive government overreach um on so many levels, and we're seeing things that, like you said, in our timeline line are current in short lifespan we couldn't have fathomed. You know, the best way to, I think, to understand, and this is again going back to our two warnings at the beginning, is we want to always be careful um not to worry too much about when it's all going to happen, as opposed to understanding the players that are on the stage. It's kind of like a theater. The stage is set, and then the actors are ready. We just don't know quite when God is going to ignite or trigger the timeline. Um, and that world stage is now set. Everything that we just talked about there briefly, uh, the Daniel 70th week, Jacob's Trouble, the tribulation, the stage is set for that to happen at any time. And really, it's the first time in history that we could say that. In 1948, we had the restoration of Israel. That's unique. There's never been uh a nation that's been gone for 2,000 years and then revived. Around the same time in 1948, we saw the underpinnings of the European Union set, which is a self-described Roman Empire. That's the terminology they use. Since that time, we've seen massive globalization, which you just referred to. Uh, the one world communication system, the idea of the internet and the world wide web. I mean, just three days ago, we saw Elon Musk, and you know, he's personally making trajectory changes for nations in warfare based on his ownership of satellites. And so key key privateers are able to make worldwide global calls. Uh, there's a one world government, we saw that with sanctions. We're having an Eastern and a Western front right now set up where the entire world is turning the target on Russia. There's a one world economy. During COVID, Bill Gates was pressing that, especially in third world nations, saying, you know, let's move to crypto, let's move online with all of our banking. And now we're seeing the last two years one world medicine. And so, regardless of your eschatological framework, everybody has to admit that a lot of the things that a premillennial understanding of scripture said had to be true are now possible. And when we zero in on Russia and Ukraine, uh, what happened the last six days is fascinating prophetically, simply because of the big tech censoring of Russia right off the world grid. Meta and TikTok both banned Russia's state organizations from even using their platforms. Uh, Ukraine asked YouTube to turn off Russia entirely. The EU labeled Russia a geopolitical terrorist. Uh the Olympics blocked Russia, Russian athletes. Uh, I looked on on uh WION, it's called the World Is One News, which is fascinating, by the way. If you want to get kind of a 360 understanding of what's going on in the world, which is hard through our American media, left and right, and 14 hours behind, um, there's WION. You just go on YouTube, you type in foreign news, and you can just literally watch the world unfold via each country uh on real time. And what we're seeing is privateers and individuals now who have money that's bigger than many of the GDP of most of these nations are able to move the world with statements. And there's never been anything like that before in history. And so absolutely the stage is set.
SPEAKER_00So good. The uh developments that are taking place right now in Russia and Ukraine are obviously significant for a lot of the reasons that you just laid out. How should American Christians be viewing that situation with respect to like right now, today? What would be some of the next steps, or how would you talk to someone who's driving home right now from work or soccer mom? These people are very far removed from this and they love Jesus. They just have been untaught, or they always thought studying the end times meant you're crazy watching, you know, midnight television. So speak to that.
SPEAKER_01I think we're all feeling that right now um because of those things that we just we just mentioned. I mean, the reality is we're all for the first time in history, you know, real time watching developments um with fated breath in other nations as they happen. And um, I would say to the soccer mom or to anybody who's who's watching, it's an exciting time to be alive. Number one, we want to be praying for our brothers and sisters in these nations, uh, that they would be bold with the gospel. You know, I know people who literally are in Ukraine, men that are on the ground, they're not running, they're not fleeing, they're turning their pews into cots, and they're saying, you know what, if this is it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go out swinging. And so we want to be praying for them. I also think that for the, you know, this is important to understand is that in Ezekiel 38 and 39, uh, for many years, Biblicists have kind of pondered, what do you do with Gog and Magog? And that's what makes this moment so fascinating when we see Russia, this army from the north, kind of coming south and beginning to invade. Because Ezekiel prophesied in 36 and 37 that there would be a restoration of Israel. That happened in 1948, but then also in chapter 38 and 39, that there would be an invasion from the north by Gog and Magog, Gog being the leader of Magog, this invading nation. And really what it turns out to be is kind of a north versus south, almost World War III type event. And it seems to have a nuclear ending. We don't know for sure, uh, which is fascinating that 2,500 years ago Ezekiel would be able to write that. Oh my God. And it takes about seven years to bury the bodies. And interpreters wrestle, is this kind of a pre-trib, pre-rapture, World War III, or is it something that happens within the tribulation uh season? Um, and it's most likely, I think Fruchtenbaum was did the best work on this, it's most likely that it happens early. So it's something that we would be able to witness and be a part of before the taking up of God's people and the initiation of the of the seven-year tribulation. And what happens is these armies from the north come. There's a there is a coalescing of nations in the south, and really Israel is the navel in the middle, and God protects them miraculously. And so you have he delivers them via earthquake, via disease, via hail and fire, this miraculous deliverance of Israel as this army from the north comes to invade. Now, what's important based on the last six days is that Magog and Meshech and Tubal were the sons of Japheth. Remember, Noah had the three sons, and so Japheth goes north, that's Europe, and then you have Ham who goes south into Africa, and then you have Shem who goes east, and then eventually Abraham, and out of that comes the Semites. But basically, Magog who goes north, that is literally Prince of Rosh, or the root word for Russia and Ukraine, and Meshach is the old name for Moscow. And so there in Ezekiel 38 and 39, you have literally God saying at the end there's going to be this cataclysmic war by armies from the north with the root name of Russia. And we want to be careful with that because of the time bridge, but it is there. And then God also says that many of the Muslim nations are going to jump in. So Persia, which is modern-day Iran, Libya is northern Africa, Gomer is Germany, Sheba is Saudi Arabia, and then Beth, you know, or Bet Tegarma is Turkey. And so just in summary, I don't want to bore everyone, but literally you have a Russian leader who's kind of an empirical hard-head bully who starts invading South and he gains Islamic traction, and and they surround Israel. And when you watch everything that's happening, you go, whoa, how could someone 2,500 years ago be able to forthell outside of supernatural revelation, the fact there would be a revived Israel, that all these nations would still be on the world scene, and that there would be this massive nation, literally directly north of Israel, that would start invading south. And so when you see it happen as a Biblicist, you just pull back and you go, only God, only God. And I I wouldn't take that any further. I'll just say the component pieces are in place. The 70th week, the day of the Lord, eventually Armageddon, Armageddon, the Mount of Olives and the Return of Christ, you know, the the stage is set.
SPEAKER_00Powerful. I won't push you any further, but I do I I will pick on two things really quick. Number one, yeah, I get it, and you've mentioned well the caricatures and some of the silliness that gets taken too far with creative license, but it it is very uh uh interesting how people have watched Russia for decades. People who understand modern-day prophecy since 1948. It's also interesting how laughable a literal Israel as a nation was pre-1948. I think back to uh some of the statements made. If you read some church history literature, you might find at different points, you know, the Pope was the Antichrist, and then this guy was the Antichrist, and then that thing, and that other thing, and there was really no concept for a literal Israel. And 1948 comes, and then now with the events taking place today, you see a lot of memes and funny stuff online, and I get it, you know, people put the little chalkboard up and they're all going, you know, dispensationalists right now, or whatever, and there's like a million different equations and they're teasing, you know. I I don't even if you just take a literal historical grammatical approach to scripture, I think you'll land on not necessarily a lot of big terms and big words and Hollywood movies, but just a really clear picture that what we're seeing is not some random thing, it's not some conspiracy theory, it's just real simple. God is unfolding his plan before our eyes, and at some point we're gonna see more and more prophecy come to pass. I want to ask you a practical question to finish.
SPEAKER_01There's a funny story on that. I'll just I'll just share real quick. Um, please do. You know, yeah, one time in class, this was towards the end of R. C. Sproul's life, and we were in class with Dr. uh Pastor John MacArthur, and he was talking about sprawl, and he said, you know, he said, My my buddy R. C. is coming around. And we all thought, What do you what do you mean? And he said, Well, he's coming around to the fact that we he he might want to be premillennial. And everyone's like, What do you what do you what do you mean? And so he said, You were talking on the phone the other night, and he said, Johnny, Johnny, I'm coming around. And MacArthur said, What do you mean? He said, Oh, on this whole end times thing. Pastor John said, Well, well, why? And these are sprawl's words, and we'll have to find out in heaven if it was true. I believe it was. Is Sproul said, he said, Israel, Johnny, Israel. I've got to do something with Israel. So I don't think it's a matter of, you know, the reality is, is all of us, all of us agree on, you know, so many parts of our theology. There's always been for some this tension on eschatology, right? But the reality is, is that all of us, no matter what part of the camp we're from, have to look at what's happening now and go, man, this sounds a lot like a literal historical um hermeneutic where God is in fact planning to use Israel in a very special way.
SPEAKER_00I love it. Well said. And uh I got one more question for you. We know that God is sovereign, nothing will stop his plan, his kingdom will come. We believe that will be a literal thousand year reign kingdom. Uh right now, sort of a a now but not yet, as the quote unquote kingdom of God is gathered, his sheep are brought into the fold, and he's saving others, the Gentiles. And Yes, a literal kingdom to come. We believe he wins. What are the practical now applications while we await the Lord's return? The Lord, the the word Maranatha, you know, the idea of Jesus come quickly, come, Lord Jesus, while we awaited Yeah, that's that's important because there's a young generation right now that I think is is um doesn't want um to believe that things are gonna grow bad to worse because then they go, well, why even try?
SPEAKER_01And that's the wrong that's the wrong answer. Because even as the world will grow bad to worse, the reality is Jesus promised to build his church and he's gonna do mighty and miraculous things through the calling of his people, even in the difficulty. And if you go to other parts of the world, even because of the difficulty. And so, number one is share the gospel, step out in faith and be bold and take great faith steps for the kingdom of God. Right now, you want to be talking to your kids about all this stuff, you want to be talking to your neighbors. The flat, simple reality is that everyone's nervous and anxious, and you have the hope. You have the answer. And so give it give it to them. The other thing that I would say, this is just real practical, is support Ukraine. These brothers are literally, I mean, last I heard it, they were telling me four or five hundred thousand people have moved to Poland and to Georgia. But a lot of the pastors are saying, I'm gonna wait until the last man's out. I'm here to serve the people. Wow. And they're not running. And so, like, you know, Bree and I support SGA. uh Slavic Gospelassociation.org. All the money goes right to them. Um, there's no there's no middleman, there's no banking, so that way you don't have to worry about fraud. So I think it's a matter of saying, if I'm a Christian and one day I'm gonna go through a hard time and I want my brothers and sisters to help me. Um, if you're a first world American, right now is the time where you show the love of Christ, step out and you help them.
SPEAKER_00Amen. Well said. I'm gonna just tack on one thing. So SGA Slavic Gospel Association, we know some of those guys, right? And then if you're looking for, you know, if you just said, well, what's one other? What are a couple? Uh there's one other one we know pretty well. I'm not gonna name a bunch of guys right now just so we don't hose anyone, but uh GMI or TMAI, the Masters Academy International, they've got some people on the ground there, a dear brother I'm thinking of by name right now. So I would go to SGA, Slavic Gospel Association, I would go to the Masters Academy International and reach out to them and ask for ways that your church can partner, your church can support. And these are two I think of more the reliable direct fund to mission approaches. Um, brother, thank you. I love this. We got to do this more on this topic.
SPEAKER_01I love it. My privilege and honor.
SPEAKER_00Such a joy. Well, our prayers this episode will give you the right theological foundation and perspective during the season that we are in. We'll have more videos, more questions answered, and some articles coming on this this year as things unfold. Thank you so much to listening to the For the Gospel podcast. To learn more about how we're providing sound doctrine for everyday people, go to forthegospel.org. The best way to get our content directly to your devices is to subscribe to the podcast, subscribe on YouTube, and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter to make a tax-free donation and help us continue to produce free content and for articles and more about our ministry. You can do that all at our website. I'll be back next Monday with another episode. Keep on living for the gospel.