Welcome to the For the Gospel podcast, where we're all about providing sound doctrine for everyday people. I'm your host, Costi Hinn, and on today's episode, I have invited For the Gospel contributor and the newly announced, newly voted in senior pastor of Indian Hills Community Church in Lincoln, Nebraska, Jesse Randolph. Welcome to the For the Gospel podcast, brother.
SPEAKER_01Costi, it's great to be with you again. Thanks so much.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I want to get us caught up briefly. I know that a lot of people in our audience know you. Some do not know you. You're currently pastoring at Mission Bible Church. It's a church that we both know really well, and I know you really well. So thankful for you. And you've been so faithful. Now you're moving from Orange County to Lincoln, Nebraska. Even as we record this, I'm watching you on Zoom right now, and you're wearing a Nebraska pullover, and it's the forever opportunity that a lot of gifted young preachers and teachers desire, if the Lord would allow. You are stepping in to fill the pulpit of a man who has been preaching for 52 years, I think. And this opportunity for you is not a stepping stone. You're viewing it as a forever home. So Cornhusker Country, here you come. How are you feeling, brother?
SPEAKER_01Oh, brother, I am so excited, so overjoyed at the opportunity. Uh we've been praying for an opportunity like this to go serve a body to teach and preach God's word uh faithfully uh year over year until uh either he returns or takes me home. And it's just been neat to see the way the Lord has opened these doors uh to this specific church, to see the way that the elders out there have worked through their process of making sure that uh I'm the right man and we're the right fit as a family and making sure that they're the right church for us. And uh over and over, he has just been so good and so faithful to answer our prayers, to highlight what he is doing. And man, we are excited to get out to Husker Country. Um a lot of people have this uh this idea that when you go to Lincoln, Nebraska, you're going out to the middle of a cornfield, but but it you really couldn't get further from the truth. It's a it's a neat, uh thriving city, uh city of 300,000 people, it's the state capital, uh, it's the home of the University of Nebraska, go big red. Um and it's just got so, so many opportunities. Um I kind of like it in it in some ways to a city like like in Austin, Texas, where the state itself is red and surely has a lot of good Bible churches around the state, but you get to the city and it gets a little bit more purple, if not outright blue. And uh you got you know a state government there that's red, but you have a city government that's quite liberal. Uh you got a university that's of course gonna have a liberalizing influence. So what a wonderful opportunity to get out there and to preach the gospel, to preach the word and see the just watch the Lord turn hearts. That's what we're there for.
SPEAKER_00That is awesome. The church itself has got quite a history. Did I get the years right? That the pastor, Pastor Gill, I believe, is there was there 52 years?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, brother. So, you know, you and I look up so much to John MacArthur, who started in February of 1969. We're a part of that seminary and that that that uh that ministry, grace to you. Uh Indian Hills, uh Gill, the pastor that I'll be uh replacing, he started in September of 69, so about seven months after Dr. MacArthur. So uh just an amazing legacy, a super, super faithful legacy of expository preaching and shepherding the flock. And you talk about some big shoes to fill. Uh, I feel that feeling every day and have for a few months now as I think about the opportunity, but ultimately it's not about Gil or me. It's about the Lord Jesus Christ being proclaimed, his word being brought forth to the people as we uh I feed the flock. Um, and that's the thought I keep coming back to is I when I have those feelings of nervousness or unsettledness, or I could never do this. The reality is I could never do this, you could never do this. It's all the Lord and his work uh through his word.
SPEAKER_00Amen. You are a man with a book that is divine, and you're a clay pot, so is he, and so is J Mac, and everybody else for that matter, even the best of men are still men at best. We are all servants of Christ. And last little kind of side note here, just because we can. I think of how much press and publicity MacArthur has gotten for his 50 plus years, and rightfully so. We praise God and highly esteem those who have been that faithful in the pulpit. Uh, it is difficult now to go any stretch of time in ministry without public scandal or maligning the gospel or some other issue, and he's gone some 50 plus years, uh no stranger to controversy or different dust-ups, but overall, that man has been in the pulpit. Well, there's a lot of other men like Gil and others who may never uh you know have a medallion branded with their 50-year journey on it, or some other thing and a standing ovation at Shepherd's Conference, which again, it's all fine and well, but what a reminder that somewhere, someone, a man of God, is also preaching faithfully, moving through the New Testament, shepherding, raising up elders, guiding people in godliness, being an example to the flock, then growing old, dying, and entering the hall of heaven, along with so many others, as what Paul described as the the vessel, the earthen vessel, the the clay pot is what he's really referring to. Cheap, breakable, and replaceable. So by no means do I want to disrespect pastors and have people walk around saying, hey, cheapo every Sunday. But in general, uh, we take Paul seriously to highly esteem those that labor among us in that absolutely, and we have reverence. But how we view ourselves, it's not some revered king. We are very much replaceable. And one day you and I, my friend, will be replaced, and this clay pot will be no more, and some other young gun will be stepping in the pulpit, and he'll do the same thing. And so we pray to that end for you, and I'm really excited to watch the Lord use you. Really proud of you want to say that now, and grateful for how you're part of our FTG family, and now we expand as another great preacher of God's word. We'll go out, and people in the Lincoln, Nebraska area can be blessed by your ministry.
SPEAKER_01Amen. Thanks, brother. FTG Midwest. Here we go.
SPEAKER_00Hey, let's go of all about that. Uh well, Jesse, we're gonna get down to business here on a really serious topic. You are a biblical counselor as well as a gifted preacher, and we're talking about how to fight porn in this episode. So I want to start with this question. May seem obvious, but I don't want to assume it. Why is porn a sin?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a question that um needs to be answered, but it's one that I think can get sort of glossed over. Um porn is a sin, in that any sin ultimately is a falling short of God's standards. Uh missing the mark is another way to put it. Uh, God is a righteous and holy God, he's a consuming fire. He uh has set in his word his standards for how we are to act and conduct ourselves. Uh in marriage, specifically, he's given guidelines and parameters as to uh how husbands and wives are to interact in various ways, including how they're to act in the marriage bed. And the design that God has given for um sex in in general is that it is to be done and performed and consummated in the marriage bed between a man and a woman. And pornography in in so many ways, whether it be its uh adulterous roots, its idolatrous roots, as we're gonna get into today, um, it is ultimately a corruption of God's pure and perfect design for man and woman and husband and wife in marriage. Um, we'll we'll get through that a little bit more today as we talk through some of the ins and the outs and the up, just the nuances of why pornography is such a plague on the church and on culture, but ultimately it is just one uh manifestation of missing the mark, missing uh short, falling short of God's perfect standard. I think of porn as like this sin that of uh like the sin of pride, for instance. Pride historically has been the sin that people uh say, well, we all do it, we all engage in it, so what's the big deal? Um and and it's almost like if there's more people doing it, then it must be okay before God. And now so much so, pride is something that's you know, a word that's thrown around and celebrated. Uh a word that is uh the the first sin in a way, the sin of Satan before his fall, uh is now celebrated and marched on and and flags are wo waved around to celebrate what is a sin. It's kind of similar now with porn. Porn has become so uh enculturated, part of what we just see and know and it just experienced in our world. We're we're in such a hornified society and culture that it's almost like, well, if the majority's okay with it, God must be okay with it. And that is just a complete corruption of what scripture reveals about God and his uh character.
SPEAKER_00Well said. Respond to these statistics off the cuff. I've not shown you these ahead of time. Every day in just the United States, thirty-seven new porn sites are created, twenty-five percent of all search engine entries are for porn. 116,000 inquiries go out for child porn, twenty-eight thousand people are watching porn every second, one point two million people have polluted their minds with uh demonic destruction, pornography after uh what barely thirty seconds to a minute of even this podcast. So uh it's racking up second over second, minutes over minute. Uh one national study uh showed that nearly fifty percent of families reported porn as a problem in their home. And as I would add, that's just the people who told the truth on the survey. Uh and multiple studies have shown that porn leads to adultery, divorce, misguided sexual development, the abuse of women, the abuse of children, anger, depression, laziness, concentration problems, anxiety, and then ultimately a loss of income. And then, as many report, a loss of God-given sex drive, the way God has designed the body to properly function gets impacted. Respond to those statistics and numbers.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, those those statistics are sad and staggering. Um, I saw something else not too long ago that said in the year 2019 alone, just to add what to what you read off Kosti, there were on on one website in 2019 alone, the equivalent of nearly 6,600 centuries worth of porn was consumed on one site in one year. Uh I saw another study that said as of May of 2021, porn sites were receiving more traffic in the U.S. than Twitter, Instagram, Netflix, Pinterest, and LinkedIn combined. Wow. And so, yeah, so my reaction is uh so much of what we've been talking about as a culture and a society over the past two years, two years has been about the idea of the pandemic. Uh well, we are at pandemic levels of consumption of pornography in our world. Porn truly is a plague. Uh it's a plague on the unbeliever, right? It sears the conscience, it rewires the brain, it demeans and degrades the image bearers that are being depicted. It destroys marriages, like you just pointed out through those stats. But it's not only a plague on unbelievers, we're we're seeing so much, sadly, that it's a plague on believers. It's taking people adrift from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. What Paul says in 2 Corinthians 11. It drags the name of Christ through the mud. It undermines assurance of salvation. It totally destroys somebody's credibility as a witness for Christ. It destroys not just marriages, but it destroys homes and families and children and ministries. It is just a plague across the board.
SPEAKER_00Oftentimes uh people don't understand what's happening maybe in their heart when it comes to pornography. They make excuses or they blame other people or they say, well, you know, if it was a man, he'd say, Well, my wife isn't doing what I want, or I'm not married, so you know, I what do you want me to do? What part of our heart does pornography appeal to?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I don't know if I'm not sure if it targets or appeals a specific segment or cross-section of the heart, as though our hearts could be so you know, precisely dissected or cross-sectioned. But what I can say is this pornography appeals to the human heart's greatest tendency as a whole, which is to create, erect, bow down to, and worship idols. A long time ago, John Calvin infamously stated that the human heart is is an idol factor. And and he was totally right. Um, because the Bible's testimony is is a hundred percent clear that the human heart's propensity is to worship false idols and images, um, which are really cheap substitutes or attempted replacements for worship of the true God. You know, you go back to the Old Testament and you have these continual references to all these pagan nations around Israel, and they're bowing down, and you can't bow down fast enough to worship idols and false gods. And that's why there's these continual warnings from God not to the Israelites, not to pursue those same idols or those same so-called gods. But we see if we read the Old Testament that Israel is stiff-necked and they keep on worshiping those false idols, false gods. And in the words of Jeremiah, they're on every high hill, every green tree, bowing down to those gods. And you go to the New Testament, it's the same issue. You know, Paul goes to uh to Athens in Acts 17, and it says his spirit's being provoked because it's a city full of idols. Uh Ephesus and Corinth are infamous for their idolatry, their false worship. You get to Thessalonica, and it was the same type of atmosphere. And that's why Paul, in that letter of 1 Thessalonians, uh, chapter 1, verse 9, says he's he's commending them for turning to God from idols to serve the living and true God. I bring all that up because today it's a new medium, but it's the same issue and it's the same problem. Instead of bowing down to Ashtaroth or Dagon or all the other false images or gods back in the day, people are bowing down to pixelated images on a screen. Um, instead of making their way to the, you know, to the cult temple prostitute in Corinth, they're they're navigating their way to a website or a page or a feed to have their most base, fleshly, carnal, lustful desires satisfied. It's modern-day paganism, is what it is costing. It's allowing something or someone other than the living God of the Bible to reign supreme in our hearts. You know, we we hear all about evolution and how you know humankind is advancing and advancing in various ways. The reality is the human race is no different than we were two or three thousand years ago. Uh we haven't evolved, uh, we haven't become better, our hearts haven't become more pure or refined. We're just as prone to idolatry as the Greeks, the Romans, the Amalekites, the Hivites, the Jebusites, all the other ice. And what the pornography plaguing in our society is proving and showing is that pagan idolatry is still running rampant and is a temptation to humankind today.
SPEAKER_00So the heart issue you're saying is idolatry. It's the worship of idols, basically.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that getting down to it, that's what I would say. Placing God in a lesser place than he truly is, and elevating self and your desires above uh true worship.
SPEAKER_00Well said. Can you speak to this statement? When I get married, I'll finally be able to have all the sex I want, and so I won't be addicted to pornography anymore. I won't need it, Jesse. You you just don't understand, man. I'm single and I I just do this because I don't have that outlet, but when I get married, I'll be fine.
SPEAKER_01Well, that sounds to me, Kosky, like somebody saying, I'm gonna put a band-aid on my thumb when cancer is spreading throughout my internal organs, or I'm gonna jump out of an airplane, but I'm not gonna use a parachute, I'm gonna use an umbrella. And and what do I mean by that? I mean that if your heart is not right, uh, if your heart is adrift from God, if you've been enslaved to pornography pre-marriage, marriage is not going to be the ultimate solution to your looking at porn uh before your marriage. Uh and let's just get real at the outset, as we kind of think about that that sort of mindset or question, there isn't a perfect marriage in a post-fall world. Uh there aren't two perfect people in any given marriage. So inevitably, yeah, amen. In any marriage, there will be wants and expectations and desires that are not going to be entirely and perfectly fulfilled, whether those are sexual wants or desires or any other wants or desires. So to just assume with that question that that someone who is married is going to have all the sex they want, that's already making quite the leap. Let's just let's just let that be said. But separate from that, let's just say that the Lord has paired you with a person who has the exact same matching wants, expectations, desires sexually as you do. The reality is your heart issues still remain because whatever lusts or desires that were causing you to look at pornography pre-marriage, there was still those same lusts and desires, if not repented of, or if they were never repented of, are still going to be there post-marriage. Those are those are heart issues, not physical issues. Those heart issues need to be taken to the Lord and repented of. And I've just got to say, with that kind of statement, what what pride ultimately undergirds that that type of statement? Because what it ultimately comes down to, it seems like it follows this logic. My greatest need is not God. Instead, my greatest need is to be physically gratified. So before I'm married, I get a pass for looking at all the pornography I want because I'm not married. Um I don't have a physical outlet for my lusts. God knows my heart. He gets me, he'll be cool with it. So just like the Israelites who in in the days of Moses, who he passed over, uh he'll pass over my sin of lust and pornography until he decides to bring me a spouse. And then when my spouse comes, uh he or he or she, they'll be my source of physical connection. They'll be my outlet for all my you know innate sexual needs and desires. They'll be the one I've been looking for. But what is this person ultimately saying if you drill down deeper? I know we're trying to get into heart-level issues in this podcast. That type of person is saying it's not God who is their savior. It's not Christ who is their savior, it's their spouse, dreamed up or real, who is savior. And specifically, it's their spouse's ability to meet their basis sexual cravings that is their savior. So again, we're asking the question, what or who is king in their heart? Is it the Lord or is it themselves, their lusts, and their idolatrous misconceptions of who God truly is? All that to say, I would I would say if you're asking that question, if you think the issue is finding a spouse, you're wrong. Um if you're if you have unrepented of history with pornography, and you think the issue is I just need a spouse, you're wrong. Uh the issue is trusting the Lord, repenting of your sin, and committing to walking in holiness and purity as you wait for the Lord to bring you that spouse.
SPEAKER_00So good. Uh it can be hard to quantify this, but what would you say qualifies as addicted to pornography if people were to say, Well, how do I know if I'm addicted to this? You know, I what if I only looked at it once a year or once a month, or every every so often I people use the word struggle to describe something that's a repeated sin that they've not really been dealing with, or you more brought into the light. So they say, I just struggle, and they kind of keep it veiled and understandably so. Some people are really embarrassed, and so they say, you know, I'm just struggling right now. And you're like, What's the struggle? Well, just personal struggles. You're like, okay, you know, help somebody understand what is addicted to pornography. And then maybe is there a deeper question they should be asking to where, yeah, we're taking care not to create two categories like, oh, I'm not addicted. I just, you know. Every once in a while, speak to that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I y you you helpfully as you phrased it in that second part of the question, I think you sort of answered the question because people often just want to know, you know, how close to the line can I get? If it is it is it four times and then I'm not addicted, or or four times I'm addicted, three times I'm not, is it ten times I'm addicted, nine times I'm not? What is that doing? But helping expose the heart's desire to get as close as they want to toy with sin without paying the price for sin. Uh so first of all, I I don't I think a better word for that, that word addiction is enslaved or give given over is what I would uh the word I would use as I'm talking with somebody about a pornography problem. Uh see to say that somebody is addicted to pornography, I think it feeds the modern notion that a person can be addicted to sex. Uh and we hear that all the time, right? When we see all the scandalous news reports, uh Harvey Weinstein seeks a lesser plea deal on a sexual assault charge because he has an incurable sex addiction. Uh Tiger Woods uh blames his adultery and his divorce a decade ago on his sex addiction. Uh disqualified ministers play the blame game saying it was their sex addiction that led to their problem and their trouble. People aren't addicted to pornography any more than they're addicted to sex. Um I would say that the proper way to think about this again is that people are enslaved to their basest, most carnal, fleshly desires. They have a lustful thought or desire, and rather than taking that thought captive, they log on, they click, they swipe, they scroll, and they're off to the races. And they're committing virtual adultery with that nameless, faceless character, often a victim, uh, on the other side of their screen. So how do I think of and and how would I help somebody think through? Am I enslaved to pornography? Um I'm not going to use that it's this many times metric versus that many times. Instead, I'm going to set out a scenario for them. Here's the picture I want you to paint in your mind. It's 11 o'clock at night. No one is around. Uh your chances of getting caught this time are virtually zero. Uh, you have total ability to delete your search history. You have total ability to cover your tracks. You have you know you have absolute license freedom ability to look at at pornography if you so choose in that moment. Uh, you know that no one will know that you've looked at pornography in that moment. Basically, you can get off scot-free if you look at it in that moment. Here's the test of whether you're enslaved. What's your next move? Do you have thought of God in that moment? Uh do you have any conception of the biblical truth that nothing is hidden from his sight and that there is not a dark corner of this world, including the dark corner in which you're now looking at porn or thinking about looking at porn, that he doesn't see or have sovereignty over? So once you have you've had those sorts of thoughts, thoughts about God, what do you do? Uh, do you go ahead and look at pornography anyway? If so, I would say you are enslaved, no matter how many times you're looking at it. See, enslavement isn't quantified by how many times you look at porn in a given week. Enslavement is referring to the fact that pornography has a grip on you, a hold on you. So if you have either no thought of God in that 11 o'clock moment, or you openly defy God in that 11 o'clock moment as you navigate your way to some porn site, it's evident that you are not worshiping God. You're back to worshiping idols, showing yourself not to be a slave of righteousness, Romans chapter 6, but instead still a slave to sin.
SPEAKER_00What steps should someone take if they are addicted to pornography? Or based on yes, let's I I put that word in there because I wanted you to speak to enslavement now enslaved.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um if somebody is saying, okay, fine, Jesse Costi, I I'm with you. I I I think I'm enslaved to pornography. Uh there there are gonna be spiritual steps that that I would counsel, but then there'll be some practical steps, um, and a few of each, I'll I'll just roll off right here. For the spiritual steps, uh getting right down to the heart of the matter, I they're gonna need to really evaluate their Christianity uh to examine their faith. Uh 2 Corinthians 13, 5 to see whether they truly are in the faith. If they have for not just a single event at 11 o'clock, but for a season of their life been enslaved to this sin, they really have to evaluate are they truly, am I truly in the faith? Am I truly a slave to righteousness as a follower of Christ is or a slave to sin? And they would really have to grapple with the idea of identity. Um, you know, I always ask people in my office counseling-wise, you know, gun to the head, is your identity in Jesus Christ or is your identity in anything else, including your indulgence of some lustful passion, including looking at pornography. If you got really honest with a gun to your head, how would you answer that question? And uh somebody who's enslaved to pornography would have to say, I'm an I'm a slave of pornography, of lust. So I would I would be counseling that person to evaluate, am I even truly a believer? And then another one would be to simply repent of that sin, confess that sin, seek forgiveness from God for that sin. You know, James 3.2 does say that we do stumble in in many ways, but then you get to places like 1 John 1.8 through 10, and 1 John 1.9 is super clear that when we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us that sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So if we've had that 11 o'clock moment where we did fail, well, confess it to the Lord, seek his forgiveness and know that he is faithful and just to forgive. And then I would also counsel that person to be praying, praying fervently for spiritual strength, for endurance, for the for the next occasion where that temptation arises. As far as practical steps beyond those, I would say accountability is certainly huge when it comes to this particular sin and temptation. So having accountability partners, there's accountability software that's out there. You know, I've worked with so many people, specifically young men, to uh in terms of another practical step to get off the smartphone and move to a dumb device. I used to have a drawer in my old office of of iPads and iPhones that I collected from men as they went to the flip phone. That's what you got to do. That's what you gotta do. And then if you're in ministry, here's another one if you're in ministry and you're enslaved to this sin, well, you need to withdraw. Uh there's no place for you. Uh you are, I I think it was Steve Lawson who used this reference before, but you're a rusty pipe. You're not putting out clean water as you're teaching and leaving preaching. You're giving off rusty sewage. So what you need to do is not just hang in and be two-faced, you need to withdraw um uh you're disqualified, plain and simple. So those are some of the spiritual practical solutions to that issue.
SPEAKER_00That speaks to the next question I have for you. Many pastors have reported their own issues with pornography. What systems should we all have in place to help prevent being an easy target? And again, we've talked about the heart issue here. You could put all the systems in place, I get it. And on a deeper level, you know, guys are gonna just do what they're gonna do. But what should pastors then and leaders be actively on guard against in the midst of um systems? But I want to add one more layer. We live in a culture that makes being above reproach really important. And you talk to men and you ask, hey, have did you ever talk to anyone about this? Or did you did you take any steps to guard your heart, to guard your eyes? What systems? And well, I don't know, and there's just not an effort. So I do want to live carefully between both behavior modification and heart transformation. Obviously, systems aren't going to solve the problem of sin, but can you speak to both sides?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, we we hit it before. I mean, practical and spiritual counsel is needed here. Both, both are important. So on the yeah, on the practical side, you know, putting systems in place, there are all kinds of things you can do. Um, a couple that come to mind are, you know, give your wife full and unfettered access to your browsing history and searching history. That's an easy one, right? You know, my my wife can't look at every text I send all the time, especially in ministry and some of the confidential things we have to deal with, but she can anytime look at what I've searched and looked up. It's all there and there for her to see. Um, another thought I've had, and I've talked to a couple of men about this, is making sure, or if there's an opportunity, use a church-issued computer. Um, if that's something that's the church can do and you can swing, um, as opposed to your personal laptop. It's just it's one more layer of accountability, or a church-issued phone for that matter. Um, because the church has access to it, the church owns it, the church can dig up whatever you've been looking at as just one more layer of protection and accountability.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And of course, just as in terms of support, enlisting fellow brother pastors out there to serve as true accountability partners. You know, one of the things I I love about this ministry and FTG is all the friendships and relationships uh guys like you and I and many others across this family have. We're we're we're shepherding different flocks and facing different issues in our churches, but we have a genuine love for each other and we're checking in on each other and seeing how we're doing. Um, and we need that. We're we're men, we're called men and we're we're called to a high standard, but we're men. And uh it's so important to have that accountability. And then on that, you already flagged it, but that that deeper heart level issue, we have to remember that as we talked about earlier, pornography is the it's the uh fruit, it's not the root. And so at the root are these lusts and desires that that anybody battles with, uh, any Christian is is going to be battling against. So as men, we need to make sure that we're uh one area to protect our heart and protect ourselves from lustful thoughts is is exercising caution in what kind of media we take in, you know, what kind of shows we're watching, things we're listening to, images we're allowing our eyes to go to that may not be overtly pornographic, but but can rev up the engine, so to speak, to where suddenly what there's that temptation. Um, you know, caution about the kind of women that we're working with or around, or or averting our eyes when you know the the months get warmer and and less clothing is being worn, and making sure that we're being very cautious there. Because any of that could be just kindling to set off a much bigger blaze. So that's that's huge. Another thing on the ministry side for pastors specifically, I think pastors need to be super on guard against pride. Pride against uh pride associated with the belief that you could never fall.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01Uh pride associated with the belief that God somehow doesn't see or overlooks wherever your eyes are taking you. Uh pride associated with that belief that as long as your homiletics are on point on Sunday, God's going to give you a pass for how carnal you act during the week. Or or even that false idea that we are forever qualified for ministry. You know, we're not the Roman Catholic Church, we aren't uh papal, we're not cardinals, we're pastors. And those first Timothy III, Titus I standards are they don't give you a lifetime appointment, but they do set a lifetime standard that we are called to make sure we are staying on top of and living in light of for our whole ministry.
SPEAKER_00That's really helpful. I was thinking as you were talking about motivation and affection, and I find that maybe what you were talking about with church devices, whether it's a laptop or a phone, could even serve as a reminder. Let's say this is not an issue for a pastor, and obviously it shouldn't be unless you've confessed it and now you're out of ministry and certainly being restored in fellowship, but not to your role as a pastor and an elder. But you know, the reminder that even the devices that are provided for us are agents of gospel proclamation. They are not agents of the flesh, of lust, of sin. And so um it can be helpful when churches provide you with devices not to, again, operate in pride like this is mine, like it's just some court corporate business, and you kind of do what you want with your devices. You're literally being given a stewardship. Everything provided by the church for the use of ministry belongs to God. And there's that element. I also think you've touched on something really special in the way that we uh uh structure staffed and teams for some reason. I don't know where this got to be a thing, but the pastor with the young assistant, and I'm gonna go there, this is coffee in preference and opinion, so take it for what it's worth. But uh it's my podcast, so I get to say this. I think that one of the ways the enemy fosters, nurtures, or even tries to tempt men into and women into emotional affairs and the steps that long precede adultery. The adultery is one of those sins where people say, oh, it just happened in a moment of passion. Well, not really, because you had to send the text, you had to park the car, you had to go through the steps, you had to think about where your other spouse is, you had to think about who speeds you, you had to call, you had to connive, you had to premeditate. There's a lot of steps before adultery. Not saying that it's a it's a greater sin than lying, but it I'm just saying that the pre-meditation elements make it a very interesting process and difficult to say, oh, it was just in a moment of passion. That's a really difficult case to make. Well, you see this a lot in the corporate world. You've got the sharp dressed all in business tycoon and then the caricature of the young female assistant. And guys carry that over into ministry. And we are to be raising men up in the church. And I'm not saying that women have no place. Don't hear what I'm not saying. I'm not saying that no one could ever have a woman on their staff. That's crazy. I'm not saying that God doesn't call women into great opportunities of ministry. Jesus was surrounded by women, they were ministering women, so pleased with all that. What I am saying is that the world creates an automatic system in which it's like normal that you're a man in a high power position and your assistant is automatically a young female. That's not even a fake caricature I'm creating. Everybody listening already knows, oh yeah, that, oh that, oh yeah, that's me. Maybe that's even you listening. I would propose for men, whether it's a struggle with you or not, to build in systems of discipleship with your assistants. So either have a matriarchal Titus II assistant who's raised her children and is godly. Um I'm thankful to have one of those, a wonderful 63-year-old woman who said, Hey, for the third and fourth quarter of my life, I'm gonna serve the church. I'm grateful for that. Or some young guys, some guys. Uh Mark Dever's done a great job with this. You talk to guys that are in ministry today from, you know, I was talking to Owen Strand recently, and I came to find he was an intern with Dever. I talk to guys all the time. It's like, oh, it's an intern with this, that's a pastoral assistant with this guy, that guy. What about taking some 19, 20, 21-year-old, 24-year-old guy who is filled with potential but just needs guidance and raising up a disciple and then deploying him into ministry one day, and now there's this pastor who served as a young man. Instead of the low-hanging fruit of, oh, I'm a guy, I just need this young female assistant to do admin work for me. And again, you want to call that a Costa Hinnism, that's my conviction, it doesn't have to be everybody's command, fine. But it's one of the coaching mechanisms of mentors in my life who have said, hey, this doesn't have to be a hard and fast rule, but what if more pastors put more energy into pouring into young men as their assistant or their close helper, like Paul with Timothy? And that's really what we're given. Paul didn't write a letter to Chloe. He mentions Chloe, Chloe's helpful. We all have godly women in our lives and ministries that without them certain things didn't happen. Praise God. But Paul to Timothy, Paul to Titus, Paul to Philemon, they're called the pastorals for a reason, young proteges, and that model can be really helpful. So stoatbox rant over. You're the uh the guest here, and your wisdom is helpful, but I needed to rant on that for a moment um to to maybe help some guys think a new angle at the assistant caricature.
SPEAKER_01Consider me a happy co-signer to that rant, Costhy.
SPEAKER_00Hey, young guns in Lincoln, get ready because Jesse's gonna put you to work. Uh, couple couple more really quick questions here to finish off. Um I want to deal with this one. I literally heard this from a pastor. I'm not even making this up, I wish I was. He includes pornography in the bedroom to spice things up. Why is this unbiblical? Why is it sinful for anyone, but obviously for a pastor, for people of all walks of life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, despite whatever that pastor said, you have to reckon with what scripture says, any any one of us does. And one of the places I immediately go is Ephesians 5, 8 through 11. Ephesians 5 on that topic, and it's not written specifically that topic, but it has a principle that certainly applies. It says, You were formerly darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light, for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth, trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. And then it says, Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness. So as Christians, that's saying we're to call we're called to walk as children of light, and we're called not to participate in unfruitful deeds of darkness. I would argue, and I think on that the basis of that text, I'm in a good position, to say that when you're bringing sinful pornographic content, which we are established as sin at the beginning of the podcast, into the bedroom, you are participating in unfruitful deeds of darkness. So there's the general principle. But now God is so good in giving us his word and giving us specific, going from the general to the specific. Then you get to Hebrews 13.4. And Hebrews 13.4 says the marriage bed is to be undefiled. And then it says, for fornicators and adulterers, God will judge. So a couple who's bringing pornography into their marriage bed is defiling it. Uh though the the the married couple, by definition, they're not committing adultery or fornication when they're in having sex with each other, they are bringing into their marriage fornicators and adulterers, namely those being portrayed in the porn they are watching into their marriage bed. You don't honor the marriage bed by bringing filth into it. Um, you know, like for instance, drunkenness is a sin, but it's been known to loosen lips and make certain people sound a lot funnier than they otherwise would be in normal life. So is it a is it okay uh to be drunk to be more funny or more entertaining for your spouse? Right. Of course not. Or or or stealing is a sin, right? Um, but is it okay to make your wife happy who's been wanting that diamond encrusted necklace to go ahead and steal it for her to make her happy because she has you know had her eye on it? No, of course not. So why would pornography be the any different? Uh it shouldn't be, and it can't be. Uh the the fact that a husband and wife are in agreement to even bring it into their bed is that that that's not the question. You know, the idea of consenting adults is a modern you know buzzword, but it doesn't excuse the biblical um violation that's happening when you're bringing immorality and and filth into the marriage bed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, such evidence of pride in humanity today that because of my consent, I somehow supersede God's word and his definition of sin. Um most certainly we would be all for consent in respecting people's boundaries, yes, of course, but you Know what we're talking about, our listeners know what we're talking about, the idea that, well, I consented to we're just two consenting adults. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine for the world standard, sure, not God's. Um, last question. What are some Bible passages to meditate on to combat this temptation? It is a normal and natural thing to be tempted. First Corinthians 10 13 says that no temptation has overtaken you, but such as is common to man. And by normal and natural, I mean we are in a sinful broken world and temptation is coming. So it you're not extra special if you get tempted, like, oh, nobody's tempted like me, Jesse. Nope, nope. All f all people are tempted. Um we're also in a in a broken world, and so it it it's reality that temptation's coming, and we've been given though God's word to combat this. So when you're dealing with all the things that are normal in today's world, sin, brokenness. You brought up earlier when the weather warms up, the you know, the clothing comes off, or less clothing, all that stuff, we're in uh we're on planet Earth. And so you're gonna be constantly guarding the eyes, guarding the heart. Where does God's word come in? What are some passages for people?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that the one you just mentioned is at the top of my list, 1 Corinthians 10 13. And it has other aspects to it too. It it that same text mentions that God is faithful, remembering that he is the one who will take us and and and secure us and lead us out of whatever that temptation is. It says that he will not allow us to be tempted beyond uh what we are able, and but then it also says that with the temptation, he will provide the means of escape so that we'll be able to endure it. So the highlight there is really God's faithfulness. So let's continually be reminded when we're when any of us are battling temptation of whatever kind, whether it's be it's temptation of pornography or any other sin, that God is faithful to deliver us from that temptation and he'll allow us to endure and he'll provide the means of escape. So 1 Corinthians 10, 13 is right at the top of the list. Um, I'd also um think about Matthew 5, 27 and 28. Jesus, the words of our Lord there is saying, You've heard it said that it was you've heard it said, you shall not commit adultery, and then the infamous, but I say that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Uh those are jarring words. He he has raised the bar and made um adultery, uh, which in his days did not involve a pixelated screen. Um he just got so much more clear and specific and made it such a uh a heightened command there that it's these these are words that we have to reckon with in our day, especially. And we know exactly what he's referring to uh as it applies to pornography. One one capstone passage that I would throw out there is 1 Thessalonians 4, 3 through 5, where Paul there says, For this is the will of God, your sanctification. And then he gets even more specific. He says, That is, that you abstain from sexual immorality. The Greek word there is pornea, from which we get our term porn or pornography. And he says, that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God. I love that passage. It it brings out the meaning of sexual immorality, it brings in the concepts of holiness and honor, which ought to mark the life of any follower of Christ. And then it also suggests there that if you're not living in holiness and honor in this way, you're just like the Gentiles, just like the pagans. You say you're not of this world, but you you really are. So it's just a stern warning and reminder about the importance of uh pursuing holiness and pursuing Christ.
SPEAKER_00Brother, thank you so much for the conversation, the wisdom, and those clear biblical answers. Honest, honestly, really excited for more people to benefit from your ministry in the pulpit each week and they're in Lincoln, Nebraska very soon.
SPEAKER_01Amen. Kosky, thanks so much, brother. We'll talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_00You got it. Well, our prayer is this episode will help you fight the good fight against pornography and understand the heart issues behind it. Thank you so much for your ongoing support and for listening to the For the Gospel podcast. If this podcast has been a blessing to you, I want to encourage you to uh subscribe or to drop a review on Apple or like it on Spotify. It's one of the ways that visibility increases for us because of the algorithms and the way that podcast podcast platforms work. And so thank you for doing that. To learn more about all that we're doing and our team, go to forthegospel.org as well. You could subscribe on YouTube, follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter as we seek to redeem those spaces with gospel truth to give or to learn about awesome contributors and where they do ministry. Again, go to forthegospel.org. Pastors like Jesse are in different places around the country, and you can go and be a part of those great ministries if you are in need of a biblical church. I'll be back next Monday with another episode. Keep on living for the gospel.