Welcome to the For the Gospel Podcast where we provide sound doctrine for everyday people. I'm your host, Kosti Hinn, and I want to welcome our listeners on Apple and Spotify and those of you enjoying this on our YouTube video podcast format. If you're new to our ministry, be sure to click that subscribe button here on our YouTube channel. And if you'd like, you can go over to forthegospel.org and learn a great deal more about our ministry. Beyond that, if you're one of our regular listeners and you feel compelled to give to For the Gospel, you want to support this ministry, we are a nonprofit and above and beyond your local church, which always should be your priority with your giving. We would invite you to partner with us. We've got a big vision and a hardworking team, and we love producing free resources for people in need of the truth. And so you can go to forthegospel.org, click give. You can also check out our financial statements, which we disclose there. And we have a very high grade in our financial transparency. You can check all of that out on our website. As well, we have a gospel patron program for those of you who sign up for monthly partnership. And we would love to send you a gift as a way of saying thank you for supporting our ministry because we cannot do this without you, including my free book, Knowing the Spirit, which we are giving out to all of our gospel patrons, and that should be on the way if you haven't gotten it already. We're so grateful for your partnership and support. Okay, on today's episode, we're on the last official episode in the Holy Spirit series before the listener QA, which is going to be the next episode and really the final landing point. Dozens of you have sent in questions online, and I'll do my best to get through as many as I can in that episode. I'm excited. I've taken a peek at some of them. You ask great questions. I'm looking forward to answering them biblically. Okay, let's jump into our topic: how to experience the unity of the spirit or how to preserve the unity of the spirit. And with the release of Knowing the Spirit, I've been invited on podcasts and YouTube channels run by people that I don't necessarily agree with on things regarding the Holy Spirit's work. Nor do I think it's wrong to go on those YouTube channels and proclaim the truth. I think of all the different times that we see uh faithful men or women go on different media outlets to proclaim the truth. I've seen John MacArthur on TBN. I've seen him go on uh Ben Shapiro, who is not a believer, uh Vodi Bakum did the same thing. You see a lot of different Christian leaders or examples to us all go into whatever forums they can. Now, whether or not they're invited back is a whole other story. I think if you downplay the truth and you overlook things, or you just you shirk your responsibility to speak the truth, or you capitulate to what they're saying and just go, oh yeah, that's fine. Who cares what we all believe? I think that that is a major problem. Now, in going on some of these programs and in dialoguing with people who I or you maybe don't agree with, I'm finding that more and more and more in these conversations, no one's ripping each other to shreds though we don't agree. Uh we have all done different pieces of content or produced content that goes against what each other teaches. We all must teach and preach with conviction, but I'm finding more and more, and I think this is an ongoing life lesson for all of us, that the way we interact with one another can drastically improve if we follow scripture. I've not been perfect in this, uh, nor am I changing any of my doctrinal positions. I don't ever believe we should lay aside truth in the name of unity or some false sense of unity. I've often said unity at the expense of truth is not biblical unity. But I'm finding that there can be unity at least in the way we treat each other. And by that I mean a graciousness. Does that mean we should all go to the same church? No. We may hold to secondary but very important doctrinal positions, and that would negate us maybe being members of the same church. But perhaps graciousness can be more prevalent in our disagreements with others without sacrificing an inch of our doctrinal convictions. That would be my premise to this episode, and really the driving motivation is can we not give an inch on doctrine and yet not rip people in the family of God to shreds? And yet I still know that there'll be some people that say, well, you've said this or you've said that about so and so. You know, that's ripping your brother to shreds. And I would say, hold on a minute. I'm not talking about drawing hard lines on heretics. If people are preaching heresy or blasphemy, uh, there cannot be any unity. And I would even argue we don't necessarily need to do some sort of fake graciousness, like, well, we want to be really nice. Being nice is telling the truth. And sometimes that needs to be firm and even sharp rebuke. But within the family of God here, I'm talking within orthodoxy, biblical orthodoxy, where we're all bringing scripture to the table and we get a little amped up and ramped up and we start ripping each other to shreds. Could we do better? I could. I think we all could. There's an old pastor joke that goes like this a man once put a dog and a cat in a cage together as an experiment to see if they could all get along. And they did. So we put a bird, a pig, and a goat. They too got along fine after a few adjustments, and he thought perhaps he was on to something, so he would try something to really shake things up. And so he put a Baptist, a Lutheran, a Presbyterian, and a Pentecostal inside. But after just several minutes, there was not a living thing left. I love that. It's an old dad joke, it's an old pastor joke, it's probably an old Baptist or Pentecostal joke. The truth is, unity can be achieved in many facets of life, but some things never seem to change. And if there's any subject that inevitably stirs up debate, it is the doctrine of the Holy Spirit. Christians across all sorts of denominational lines can be getting along splendidly as topics like the gospel, global missions, or the attributes of God bind us together, and then we explode into a full-scale theological war with cries of heresy when the Holy Spirit's work comes to the forefront. Again, there are many important things we should discuss. I think there are certainly people that go too far and like the church at Corinth, people that should be rebuked. But I don't think it ought to be the way it is consistently. We can have strong differences on secondary theological matters while taking care not to destroy the family of God in the process. Again, not at all encouraging you to downplay the truth. Scripture speaks to the kind of characteristics and principles that we ought to have in the midst of our walk with the Lord. And I think if we follow the biblical principles, we can see greater unity, not at the expense of truth. Recently I was fellowshipping with some friends, and they're faithful members of another local church. Their pastor is a close brother. We agree on most everything doctrinally, though we would slightly differ on maybe methodology, which is the way we do things in our local church. And as conversation unfolded, one of the men in the group asked for my thoughts about his grandmother. She had a private prayer language. He said she used to pray in tongues. She was a godly woman, deeply involved with the assemblies of God for years alongside her husband, who was widely respected for his decades of service in the assemblies of God denomination. These are Pentecostals. And he brought up the notion of speaking in tongues, and he did share his concerns for some of the way people in his own past had tried to make him do it after an altar call. And he never received the gift of tongues and wasn't convinced by the coercion at the altar, but he still didn't necessarily land on the same position as I did regarding the use of tongues today. And we enjoyed our fellowship and we dialogued like two men who were totally brothers in Christ. I think he's a great guy. I enjoy talking with him. And despite concerns about some excesses by others or maybe differences in the Pentecostal movement, he wasn't going to throw out his grandparents from the faith or even hint at the idea that their ministry was not legitimate, nor would I. And their ministry had been significant. They had helped a great deal of people, they preached the true gospel. And I came away from that conversation with a great deal of mutual respect, love, and unity with him as a family member in the faith, even though we don't agree on the use of tongues. But that's not always the experience that a lot of us have. I mean, we could have easily thrown a few more jabs at each other. He could accuse me of quenching quenching the spirit by not practicing tongues the way other people do. I could fire back and accuse him of throwing scripture out the window and just letting experience drive the bus. And neither one of us want to do those things. I don't believe that every Pentecostal is trying to toss scripture out the window, nor is every person calling for more self-control in charismatic practice quenching the Holy Spirit. That is a very important distinction to make. We tend to fly to the extremes. We can have differences. We need to be careful launching grenades of extremes at one another. I think strongly, I believe, that we can do better. And the subject matter in my book is not necessarily something that we'll all agree on. Certainly a lot of it should be agreed to. But we can worship in different congregations, we can have distinctives regarding secondary doctrines, but unity is possible across the body of Christ. So here's one principle I want to give you. What you say matters and how you say it. What you say matters and how you say it. There is a statement widely attributed to Martin Luther that's often quoted around October 31st when many Protestant Christians celebrate the Reformation. I have a shirt that says this, my wife has a shirt that says this. It is peace if possible, truth at all costs. Meaning we want to have peace if we can, but I won't sacrifice the truth. And I agree with his sentiment. I'm sure you would want to. We seek peace whenever possible, but that doesn't mean we ever sacrifice the truth. I think of Romans 12 18, Paul writes this if it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. And all men means everyone. Sometimes people won't want to be at peace, okay, but so long as it depends on you, seek peace. At the same time, two people could speak the exact same truth, yet people resonate with one over the other because the other person seems more reasonable. Why is that? I believe that a lot of it has to do with not only what we say, but how we say it. Two people can say the exact same thing. One says it in a way that is gracious, the other a way that is more harsh, and who do we resonate with, or who might we be drawn to have a reasonable conversation with the person who is more gracious. Now, before you run me off the plank and presume that I mean to downplay the truth, I want to reiterate truth is truth no matter who says it or how it's said. Tone doesn't dictate truth, meaning the content could still be true. But we are Christians and we submit to Scripture. So the excuse, well, who cares how it sounds, it's the truth goes against biblical wisdom. The letter of Colossians is helpful here. I think of how Paul exhorts the Christians there to speak and conduct themselves with wisdom towards outsiders. Colossians 4 6 speaks very clearly about that. Our speech should be seasoned as it were. There should be a temperance to what we say and how we say it. And I think of Jesus and his perfect example of balance. There were times where he was sharp and clear. He needed to be. There were other times where he was gracious, gentle. His cadence in the majors is pretty inviting and warm and welcoming to sinners. His cadence in those moments with the Pharisees, though, oh, he let it fly. And I think he had all the reason in the world to do so. Of course he did. He's Christ. But in Luke 19, 5, we see him kindly invite himself over to Zacchaeus's house, even though he was a cheating tax collector. He didn't say, Hey, you cheater, you big scam artist. You're this, you're that. He said, Zacchaeus, I'm coming to your house today. He won him with a winsome love and a care. Why? Zacchaeus was a sinner, got up in the tree to see Jesus. Jesus went for the heart and reached him. I think of Matthew 8.26, a different approach here. The disciples are panicking during a storm. They fail to realize their leader was the creator who could calm the storm, and Jesus rebukes them firmly. Why? Because they knew better. So maybe there's times in your life or mine where we're a little stronger with someone because we know that they know, or we've already told them and we've taught them. This would be people maybe closer in the context of your local church, or they're just flat out being rebellious or blind, and you know that they know and you know they've heard. Matthew chapter five, all the way through chapter seven. You've got large crowds following Jesus' ministry. It's very early on. He's patiently teaching them, the Bible says, on and on and on. That's where you get the Beatitudes from. Still strong with the Pharisees, still clear as day, but so gentle, so patient. I think there's a model for us there in our conversations with people. Then you have Mark chapter 10, verses 17 to 27. You got the rich young ruler. He confidently tells Jesus how he kept all the commandments, only to be hit with very hard truth, as Jesus says, Sell everything, give it to the poor, and follow me. Jesus didn't coddle the rich. And then in Matthew 23, 33, Jesus aggressively and sharply rebukes the Pharisees. He calls them vipers and a lot of other things, by the way. What do we see there? Well, we see an example of balance, we see an example of contextual wisdom, meaning what context or who Jesus was dialoguing with dictated the way that he spoke. We see that it sometimes he was very strong. Sometimes it was rebuke, it was sharp, it was aggressive, and other times there's a bit more dialogue, some questions. So important to remember, Jesus could have blasted everyone he met with the hard truth. It would have all been true. He is the truth. All were sinners, all deserved it. And yet he tactfully and perfectly spoke unwavering truth with a variety of tones and temperaments, depending on the audience or person he was speaking to. Oh, that's so good. And there's one caveat here. Jesus could read minds and hearts. We cannot. So we should be even more careful because we aren't perfect like him. We will speak the truth the wrong way sometimes. But if we aim to follow the example of Jesus, I believe we can minimize how often we miss the mark. Perhaps more importantly, we will not be tempted to excuse ourselves when sinful antics in the midst of speaking the truth are flying everywhere and we have sinned. I've certainly been guilty of this a time or four. Maybe you have, I would imagine we all have. I love what my friend Johnny Artavanis said recently. He said, Truth disseminators disqualify themselves when the wisdom they offer is divorced from gentleness and humility. Oh, that pierces my heart with conviction. He says, You can be doctrinally right, but be way wrong. When you present truth in a snarky and slanderous and maligning manner, God is dishonored. That's so good. It tempers us and helps us remember the model of Christ before firing off the truth. I think of James 3 13 here. He writes, Who is wise and understanding among you, let them show it by their good life, their deeds done in humility, and those come from wisdom. Hasty and aggressive reactions are not wise. Typically, when that's our first response, we're going to be wrong. And that is not how the Holy Spirit would have us dealing with every issue. The wisdom from above in James 3.17 is first of all pure, then peaceable, considerate, submissive. It's it's unwavering, it's full of mercy and good fruit, it's impartial and it's sincere. That kind of wisdom leads to explosive unity rather than explosive arguments. You and I will have less regrets from using our words unwisely, even when we're on a crusade for the truth. I want to give you four principles that can help us foster more unity in the true body of Christ. And I'm talking about true believers here. I'm not talking about just uh shoving a bunch of heresy under the rug or overlooking people that are damaging the body of Christ. No, I'm talking about principles that guide genuine unity with the true believer. Four principles that I'm trying to apply better and better in my life. I'm hoping for the Holy Spirit's help in that. I need it. You could add more to these and you could maybe edit them yourself, but they'll provide a healthy starting point. The first one is doctrine definitely matters. Number one, doctrine definitely matters. Protecting unity is a noble cause. We ought to preserve it with those who may hold different secondary views that don't lead people to hell. But remember this, not essential, meaning non-essential for salvation, does not mean not important. Secondary doctrines matter. Doctrine matters. And we do well to remain prudent and balanced in this. We can experience beautiful unity with those whom we have doctrinal differences with, but that doesn't mean we throw doctrine out the window. So you may want to worship at a different local church. You may need to have spirited, strong discussion. You may learn or get wisdom or encouragement or advice from somebody who holds different views than you on, let's say, eschatology, but maybe you would worship differently or be members of a different church. You certainly would preach and teach differently. I have a dear friend. This is no secret, named Owen Strand. He has been an encouragement to me. My weary soul during seasons of trial, major life decisions, at times of just mutual encouragement, not to mention uh playing basketball. I love my dear brother Owen. He holds to a completely different view of eschatology than I do. That's the study of the end times. We might differ on some finer points of theology, but we have exceptional unity. He is my friend. We'd call each other my boy or my man. How are you doing? I mean, there's a brotherhood. Grant Castleberry, you look at men around the body of Christ. I could name one or two finer points. How about R.C. Sproul and John MacArthur? What about theologians and scholars who differ on things that they find to be important? They think through these matters. They've poured over books. They've done exegetical work and they've still come to different conclusions. And yet exceptional unity, deep and lasting friendship, and a bond in the gospel is present. What's happening there? Well, doctrine still matters, and yet they've come to a point where they understand that we need one another. And we're able to maintain gospel unity at large. This is helpful. In today's kind of culture of Twitter wars and just canceling people, I think we need to rediscover and recover the glorious tension of declaring doctrine definitely matters, but I can find common ground in the gospel with you. And most certainly philosophy of ministry, a passion for the truth, and some guts is going to help us speak each other's language a little more because especially with guys that you differ with on secondary things, as long as they're willing to stand for the gospel, oh, you can lock arms any day of the week. Why? Because truth matters. Doctrine matters. Essential doctrines matter. Number two, presumption is unwise. Now this one starts to ripple out a bit. Past just guys that agree on the gospel and philosophy and ministry is pretty similar. We just differ on eschatology. Presumption is unwise when we start to get into dialogue or conversations with people who differ with us more strongly. And this principle protects our unity because it ensures we do our due diligence before presuming that just because someone holds to a different view than us, they are malicious or their intent or their agenda is dark or divisive, or we might say, Oh, I know why you believe that. Oh, you just this and you just that. We must be so careful with presumption. Perhaps uh most of all, we must be sensitive and gentle and kind and patient with people who hold to different views than us, especially church members and people who maybe aren't uh loaded with degrees from a seminary. They haven't read a lot, they just heard what they heard and they believed it, and we go and hammer them. And they've never even been asked, hey, why do you believe that? Or have you ever thought about that? They've never Been given a book or even had coffee with someone who would just walk with them or ask them, hey, help me understand why you hold that view. And so we presume often, oh, they just love that heretic. Oh, they must just enjoy that. Oh, typical blind following the blind. Take it easy now and slow down. People come into our churches all the time. We just quick snap judgments fire away. Here's the five things you need to do. Here's the eight things you need to say, here's this, here's that. Take this class, do this, go on your track, boom, boom, boom, discipleship. All right, what's wrong with you? Why aren't you serving, giving, and doing it all right? Where's your parenting classes? Where's your parenting books? What's wrong with you? Why aren't you Ted Trip yet? All of that, poor people are just going, I'm just trying to get the basics here. And you're presuming like something's wrong with me, or I'm not saved because I'm not getting it fast enough. I want to learn. Would you slow down? Presumption is so dangerous. A lot of people get hurt. They don't feel a sense of unity or bond with us because we're just off to the races and we can come off very much like the Pharisees, the know-it-alls, the do-it-alls. We got it all put together, but just because someone else doesn't agree or doesn't know, we presume that they actually have some position to say, yeah, I don't agree with you, or oh, I know, they just want to learn. Many times we also don't slow down to think they've been in this for a long time. Or they've been confused, and maybe somebody else in their life didn't answer these questions, and they've come to me for answers, and I could slow down and ask some questions too. Presumption is so unwise. We must be careful with it. That principle helps us protect our unity. And don't we know this in marriage or other relationships? When we presume on a spouse or we presume on a friend, what does it cause them to do? They go on the defensive, and what if we've misread their motives? What if we said, you know, I know what you're up to? Or I know, oh, you're just people just immediately put up walls. That creates division, not unity. Number three, another principle. So we got doctrine matters, doctrine still matters. We've got uh presumption is unwise. And how about this one? Broad brushing stirs up strife. How much trouble could be avoided if we took great care with broad brush statements? All sides of Christendom do this. It leads to strife. Some of the more reformed or Baptist traditions like me may make comments like, you know, Pentecostalism is nothing more than emotionalism and a bunch of people dancing up and down the aisles, you know, these crazy people don't even believe the Bible. Pentecostals or charismatics may say, oh, those reformed folks, those cessationists, they don't even believe the gospel, bunch of false teachers, bunch of stuffy Pharisees, they just quench the spirit and insist that any expression of passion is unbiblical charismatic chaos. Round and round and round the broad brushing statements go. Each side attempting to categorize and label the other in a way that wins the theological war. None of that is helpful. Now, do all those statements contain a kernel of truth? Yeah. Us reformed types, we are real sticklers about doctrine. It matters, and you charismatics can get a little crazy. And, you know, honestly, are the charismatics just uh poking at us when they say, you know, you guys need to this or that or be nice or whatever? No, we can be a little harsh. So I really think that there's a kernel of truth in some of it. Of course there is. We don't make up blatant lies, but then we add to it with the broad brush statements. We start indicting people. We haven't asked questions, or we haven't studied the scriptures and presented our position biblically. We just kind of fly off and go at them, make broad brush statements because it's easy, it's pithy, and it shoves them into a category that makes sense in our mind, but we haven't slowed down to think. I think that social media rewards this, by the way. We reward the mobs that make inflammatory statements. Uh we drop the truth bombs, we bait people into quick one-liners, we don't add a lot of nuance, and we get a lot of attention for it, but nuance matters. I don't know that Christ is pleased all the time with that approach when there's no nuance or no fairness, and it takes harder work, it takes more time, it takes more words to prudently categorize people and to uh put their teaching in the appropriate genre. And maybe not everyone is a heretic. Maybe people are just off, maybe we don't agree on things, but to broad brush is unwise. I remember a statement not long ago by a brother who differed on some things with eschatology with another brother and uh basically accused the one brother of throwing out the Bible, even though both positions were held by reputable reformed scholars. Uh the one gentleman said, Yeah, well, it's easy to hold that position when you just throw out the Bible. Those kind of broad brush statements, friends, are not helpful. And I'm gonna say this to myself, the mirror's up on me. They're lazy. They're a lazy attempt to deal with an issue that may be troubling, but it required more careful and more critical thinking, and we didn't want to do the work. It's way easier to broad brush. And number four, a great principle pleasing Jesus is most important. The Christian landscape can sometimes look like a series of camps. And in each camp, there are leaders who have commonly held beliefs, and there's written and unwritten rules, and there's a sense of identity. And, you know, camps can be helpful with bringing like-minded people together. They establish schools, seminaries, there's an ecosystem of support, and you are together in uh the gospel battle and the battle for truth. No doubt helpful. We can also clarify our doctrinal distinctives within camps, and we can kind of know who's who and what's what. But camps can also be problematic because, like a tribe, they can foster secrecy, cover up sin, and destroy those who stand up for truth at the cost of key leaders that we need to protect in the camp. And when it comes to unity, I think nothing is more important than unity with Christ. He's the one that we ought to be most concerned about pleasing. If you're a charismatic and you're concerned about some abuses, don't be afraid to speak up. Please Jesus, even if it means you're going to walk the plank alone. If you're a Baptist or more reformed type who's concerned about boundaries and rules and traditions made by men and not scripture, don't be afraid to lead your ministry in a way that pleases Jesus no matter the cost. In life and in ministry, there will be those who expect you to fly their flag and be loyal to their camp or be a company man or company woman. Those types are usually the most frustrated when they find out you're only loyal to Christ. When attacked, when misunderstood, or even when you're ostracized, root your confidence in the fact that you have upset some people but you've pleased the Lord. When you've done right in God's eyes, it doesn't matter what people say. They're wrong, you're right, but only because you've done what is right in God's eyes. If you have done well for the camp but not pleased the Lord, you need to repent. And if you've upset some folks, but you've pleased the Lord, hey, rejoice. So let's recap our points. Number one, doctrine still matters. Number two, presumption is unwise. Number three, broad brushing is definitely not helpful. Number four, pleasing Jesus is what matters. That is most important for you and for me. In the next episode, I'm going to answer as many questions as possible based on what you've sent in. I hope the book Knowing the Spirit is a blessing to you. And I pray that you and I are encouraged to walk in the truth, not give an inch when it comes to essential doctrine and the gospel, and yet hopefully we can find more unity than we ever have because it's a unity rooted in the truth and the Holy Spirit's work in the body of Christ. If you've been blessed by the book or by this podcast, if you'd be willing to leave a review online somewhere, whether that be Amazon or Apple or Spotify or somewhere else that you purchase resources or listen to these resources, we would be so grateful. Thanks as always for listening, for watching, for sharing, and for supporting. I hope this series is used by the Lord to help you rejoice in the true work of the Holy Spirit. I'll be back next Monday with another episode. For now, keep on living for the gospel.