Welcome to the For the Gospel podcast where we provide sound doctrine for everyday people. I'm your host, Costi Hinn, and on today's episode, we're continuing our series on biblical manhood to kick off this new year. I've got Pastor Travis Allen with me. He has just been a well of wisdom. I know he has blessed you as you've been listening to these episodes. Whether you're a mom who is raising boys and shaping the future of men, or your father who's doing the same, or maybe you're a young man and you need biblical wisdom, or an older man that needs to be refreshed and renewed and sharpened. I know on this side of the microphone and the camera, I've selfishly been enjoying this. It's been discipling me and sharpening me and filling my sails with wind as a man. And so, Travis, thanks for coming back. I'm excited for this episode.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and me too, Gossi. It's been a pleasure already, and I know we got more to talk about. So let's do it.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Title of this episode: What is the role of men in the home? And we're coming at all of this from a biblical perspective. Uh let me just uh hit you with the first question. How should men, Christian men at that, view the home, marriage, and family? Are they a drag on our time? Are they a drain on the finances? Is the wife, you know, the old ball and chain? What should our our mindset be on home, marriage, and family?
SPEAKER_01Uh we've got to see the home, marriage, and family as God intends us to see it as another of his good and perfect gifts that come from above. Um, and so that whole anything about a drag, a ball and chain, all that stuff is worldly and evil, and let's just cast it aside and not even use that language at all. The the the the home, marriage, family, these are a blessing in in our life. I mean, young men, um, and you know, I was a young man once, not married, not not nailed down, and and I acted like it. And uh, and my my all my energy went into, you know, I was I was all over the place, you know, stupid stuff. When when the Lord granted me the gift of a marriage, the gift of a wife, um all of a sudden something snapped in me to where it's like I've got to get on the ball, I've got a I've got a wife to provide for, I've got a I've got a wife to love and care for. There's another there's another human being, uh, an image bearer of God who now looks to me for for shaping up, for for acting with self-control and discipline and being productive with my time and being productive with my life and providing for her. And then as children started to come into the picture, she's she's nurturing and she's caring for them, and she's doing all the things that just by God's design, she snapped into shape and said, I'm giving myself these children. But now they they need food and uh clothing and provision and shelter, and man, it just it just brought out the best in me, brought out the best in her. Um, certainly challenges there because of our sin and our sinfulness, and we're young and needing to learn and grow, but at the same time, the institution of the family that is the very first institution of creation. You know, God God granted this institution for the shaping and the forming of the individual. When he created the individual man and the individual woman on the sixth day, the same time he created those individuals, he created the institution, marriage, that would shape them, form them, give them uh give them structure, give them meaning, purpose. That's how we need to see the home, marriage, and the family. And I'll just add this that when you go to Paul's letter to the Ephesians, you see Ephesians chapter 4, the uh the role of the local church, he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds, and the teachers to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. That's Ephesians 4, 11, and 12, to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. So gifted men given to the church, they equip the saints because the saints are the ones who are doing the work of the ministry, and the word the ministry then is to build up the body of Christ until we all attain to the unity of the faith, the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature manhood. And the goal is the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. Man, if we spend time unpacking that, it's gonna take it's gonna take longer than you and I have right now. But that's that's the that's the local church. And out of the local church, as we're instructed and equipped and as we become the strong, healthy body that's that's that's demonstrating the wisdom of God in the church and the fullness of Christ, out of that comes the extension of our ministry outside the local church, and the very first place that our ministry is extended is into the family. As you go into Ephesians 5, uh this is what Luther calls the Haustaffel, the house table. The you start with wives and husbands in the marriage, and then you get into children and parents in chapter six, and then you get into slaves and masters, which is really the workplace or the marketplace, or you could even talk about the body politic, you can talk about politics, and that's all out outside the family. But the very first institution where you know, outside the local church was in which is an institution, the very first institution this enters into is the home life. And the home life is any any stable society is gonna be as stable or as unstable as the homes in that society. So when the when the homes are strong, when the when the marriages are strong and the families are strong, the society is going to be strong as well. All its institutions are gonna be strong. When those are weak and coming apart, well, as we're watching in our own time, that's what's coming apart in our age too. So I think we need to see the the home, marriage, family as the gift that God designed them to be, to see them as another example, another demonstration of the goodness, the kindness, the wisdom of God, a place for us to have the joy of intimacy and relationships, uh, an outlet then for um for our own love and joy. But we also see it as an institution that shapes us, forms us, um, that that is shaping every individual with that participates in an institution. So husbands and wives are shaped by by interaction with each other, relation, relational marital intimacy with one another, they're shaped through that, and the giving of one of themselves to one another. And then, as parents then give to the children, that's that's also shaping those children and shaping the parents as well. That institution then is the first uh extension of the ministry of the local church, it goes into the family and then out from the family into the world. So, man, it's so significant, and I think we underestimate the uh the place the family has in our own lives for the individual, but also for the entire culture as well. It is a massively important institution.
SPEAKER_00Well, then a follow-up question is what is the role of a man in setting a spiritual example for his home? Since the home is a primary and it's such a high emphasis, and out of it flows so much in our society. So goes the home, so goes uh the the church and society, but undergirding a lot of that is God's calling on men. What's our role?
SPEAKER_01Well, uh, you know, I think that um it's it it's it's it's no, you know, it's not incidental, it's not coincidental that God sets up, Christ sets up within his church gifted men to pastor, elder, shepherd, oversee the church. Men, fathers, husbands, are to look to those shepherds as examples. They're to look at their leadership, their love for the church, their giving of themselves continually for the church, their example of meekness, humility, the fruits of the spirit. They're to look at those men as role models, because Paul said, imitate me as I also do Christ. You know, so in the same way that we, you know, any pastor looks to Paul, well, men in the church should be looking to that pastor as well and seeing in him an example. Paul told Timothy, watch your life and doctrine closely. Because in so doing, you'll you'll win salvation both for yourself and for your hearers. It's so vital to watch those two categories in your life life or your uh your watch your life and doctrine, watch your character and your competency and doctrine. So character and competency, that that's how you set an example for all those who look to you. Just as every man ought to look to, every pastor ought to look to Paul, every every pastor ought to look to Christ, every pastor ought to look to Peter, and and these examples in Scripture. Every man in the church ought to look to his pastors and elders. So vital for an elder to, I mean, look at the qualifications for an elder in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. So many character qualifications in there that have to do with managing the household well, and and the the way he conducts himself with dignity and restraint and self-control. And uh he's he's just an exemplary Christian. He's to model that. So as men then look to the elders and overseers and shepherds, they they take that example, they imitate those men, and then they they set an example for the people who look to them for leadership and instruction. So character competency, so vital in setting an example in their home.
SPEAKER_00And such a good summation. That's easy to remember. What Paul said to Timothy, I gotta watch my character, and I gotta watch my competency of doctrine. Can we get practical here for uh a bit? You have five kids, right? You and Melinda have raised five. They're what are their ages?
SPEAKER_01Uh so let's see, 29, 27, 20, almost 20 uh 23, uh, 22, and then uh 17.
SPEAKER_00So you're not a rookie. You're not a rookie. That's that's really the point here. Okay. So you've been doing and you and Melinda have been married 32 years? 30 or 32. Um could you uh frame up, and I know every home's different. I I don't need to nuance this ad nauseum, just every home's different. There'll be different versions of of what have you, but so I'll just tell the tell the audience ahead of time. Men, you plagiarize and customize this. You you take the concept or the principle and you customize it for your home or your location wherever you are. But in general, could you provide some examples? What are some of the ways? Some of this is just a direct uh correlation. We should just copy it. How did you disciple Melinda and the kids? Like, did you I had a brother once who said this, he's like, How do you I just can't get them to sit still for 40 minutes? I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, Well, family worship, right? So I we sing through songs, and then I teach uh a sermon. I'm like, oh, bless your heart, man. I as a pastor, I'm in the phase of life where we we get like half a hymn and and we're working our way up to the you know two hymns, but I'm not preaching sermons. I mean, but in general, there are some practical things. What are some things you did to disciple your home?
SPEAKER_01Well, the very first thing I did, and I think all men need to take this you know very seriously. The very first thing I did with my family is to make sure and get them in a good, sound, healthy local church. I wanted to I wanted to expose them to the best ministries, the best preaching, the best examples that I could find. Uh, because a church is going to be shaped by the by the character and the competency of the men who are shepherding that church. They're to be our role models, but their ministry and the impact of their preaching and their their teaching, uh, their discipleship, that's that's gonna that's gonna trickle down through the entire church, which then helps as my wife and my it looks to other women as as you know, Titus II. They're gonna look to the those older women who are going to help them to know how to love their husbands and love their children. And and frankly, I'm such a knucklehead that my wife needed a lot of instruction on how to learn to love this difficult man. Uh, and that's that's no joke. She really had to look to a lot of examples to learn how to love and learn how to love them. Children for women, easier to love husband. Uh that's that's that's a little more challenging. So yeah. Um, amen, or oh me, you know. But uh get them into a good sound local church where the pattern of preaching, the instruction, the depth of doctrine and theology is going to shape that church and shape the members of that church so that your wife, your children are exposed to good, sound, healthy, mature Christians. That do not underestimate the power and the impact of a good sound local church on your family. That's that's step number one in being uh being a you know, discipling your wife, discipling your children is don't do it all yourself. You know, I I I um I can I can appreciate the brother who wants to preach sermons to his family as they sit there dutifully, you know, uh lined up. I mean, you know, I mean, you know, you gotta maybe you could practice taking offering and uh you know administering the elements as well. But I think uh I think you want to back off that a little bit, you know. Let the church do what the church does. When you come into your home, you know, just you gotta be age appropriate. Those little ones are a little squirrely and stuff, and so it's a challenge for them to sit there for 40 minutes or an hour or whatever. But I'll tell you that 40 minutes or or an hour or beyond, that'll actually grow as the health of your family life develops. So when they're younger, you're just teach teaching them very basic things and maybe maybe setting a goal for 10 minutes, 15 minutes of of trying to help your your little ones sit still with their hands folded, and and maybe five minutes is all you can manage. And maybe maybe you're gonna go through a little Bible storybook with little pictures, and you're gonna you're gonna, you know, when you read it, uh maybe use different voices and little characters and kind of work that out and just let the kids enjoy you as a as a father or enjoy the mom as a mother and and kind of instill that. Let let let it be a fun time, an enjoyable time with with biblical truth, but but make it age appropriate. So Bible story book, maybe when they're in their threes to fives, but as you get a little older, start to actually open the big Bible, you know, and open up the Bible and start to read. We would do um we'd read through the proverbs as the kids got a little older, um, you know, a proverb a day. And so we do just kind of have us go around the circle when they became readers, we had them each read a proverb, and then um, and then when uh you know we would go through basically read a proverb as they got a little older, then we'd have an old testament passage and a new testament passage. We'd do on one night we'd do Old Testament and on another night do New Testament. So we're kind of varying it up during the week. We didn't really, you know, our our family didn't we're not really singers, so we would sometimes sing songs, but not not all the time doing that in family worship. But we would definitely get into the word of God. And and I would I'm a teacher, and so I'd like to teach and help them to understand theology and understand God. I just draw out like a big idea and help them to enjoy that. So we would do that for a half hour or something like that as they got a little older. Man, if we do that now, our our kids will sit there for three hours, you know, just asking questions and interacting, and it you know, it's that's the joy. As you get into the into the middle years and the teen years, though those little minds are exploding with questions, and and the more you can take them back to scripture, they they ground their understanding in the word of God, and that the word of God becomes a very practical tool in your family life and raising your children. So I'd say your uh that your discipleship and your family, those family Bible times are so precious. And I know I sound like an old man when I say this, but man, enjoy those younger years because the time it just goes back by like that. It is it goes by so fast. When you're in the middle of it, it doesn't feel like that. I know that. But as you as you look back and reflect, you're like, why I just wish I could get some of that time back and spend time. But enjoy those kids and enjoy, you know, wrestle with the boys and play play dolls with the girls or whatever, just enjoy the family on their level. There are going to be times though, and a time and place for that Bible time. We get a little bit more serious, sit still, pay attention, sit up straight, you know, don't lounge around and teach them to discipline their bodies and to exercise self-control and then ask questions that are age appropriate and draw them into the conversation. They can see that this Bible really is, these are not just idle words to you, but they are your life. You just want your kids to understand that. So, so I'd say big picture, get them into a good, sound, healthy local church. Small, intimate family picture, man, invest yourself into them, love them, enjoy them, and let them feel your love and enjoyment. Uh, and you will you will rejoice in what you've instilled to them, uh instilled in them uh for a long time to come.
SPEAKER_00So good. So good. Do you uh remember the the transition from young age appropriate to they started sitting around lingering? Like, do you remember even in your mind now, like you said, you know, your your kids now all grown up, they just you guys could sit around and talk for hours. Do you remember as you facilitated conversation, did that set the tone in the home? So now they're older, it's like it's just what we do. Like we're the Allen family. When we're around, we just talk like dad is approachable and mom. What because I bet you there's families listening going, oh man, what I would do, I know for me personally, what I would do to sit around in my living room one day or just be with my kids and and and them just want to talk. What do you think paved the way for that? Was it this?
SPEAKER_01Definitely, yeah. It was definitely this family Bible time was was uh was like that. I you know, we we heard a lot when we were younger, hey, watch out for the teen years, those are terrible, or watch out for the twos and threes, those are terrible. Listen, we we enjoyed every single stage, and we did not we didn't recoil from uh oh they're getting into their teen years, uh-oh, they're a teenager. We didn't look at anything with any kind of uh trepidation. We looked at it as a as a challenge, an opportunity. And and and frankly, every single every single one of our kids is different, every single one of our kids as they got into different stages, kind of reacted differently, but it was just it was just a it created variety and enjoyment. And uh, you know, I heard an Arab say this once to me. He said uh he said variety is the spice of life, and then he also said at the same time, war is the spice of life. I think he I think he saw the same the same things.
SPEAKER_00Are those from your navy seal from your navy SEAL days?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was. He uh but I I kind of have the like four C's in mind as I think about the stages of development, and really from a parent perspective, I think about controller, corrector, coach, and counselor. So when you're when when the kids are really young, you're really controlling a lot. You know, you're you're not gonna let them put screwdrivers into the into the light socket or or into the outlet because you need to control their behavior and keep screw screwdrivers out of their hands and knives out of their hands. And so you're controlling a lot. You're you're controlling their little impulses, you're putting them in car seats and strapping them in. They're under control and under restraint because they don't have the maturity or the the knowledge or of the dangers in the world to keep themselves safe. So you've got to control that. Part of controlling that is to teach them, though, from a very young age, um, how to restrain their own impulses, sit still and listen. Because your long-term goal is for them to be hearers and doers of the word of God. They can't do what they don't understand, and they can't understand what they won't listen well to. So, in order to believe, you have to understand and then believe and do. So, we're keeping that long-term goal in mind, and we're gonna start when they're really young, because with the long-term goal of making them good listeners to the word of God, exposed to the word listeners to the word of God, uh, asking good questions of the text and interrogating the text. Uh, we want to teach that from a very young age with you've got to sit still, and you've got to be disciplined your little, you know, your little mind to think, and you have to discipline your body and so you know, exercise self control of your body to sit still. So, we're gonna, as parents, be kind of controllers when they're young, you know, helping them to sit still and making sure their hands are folded so they're not wiggling all over the place. And all that stuff. So that's when they're really young. As they get a little bit older, you release the restraints a little bit. So think about a funnel, you know. The funnel, it's it's when they're young, it's very tight and controlled. As they start to get a little older, you're opening up the funnel a little bit. So now you're a corrector. You're teaching them things, you're instructing them, telling them this is good, this is bad, this is right, this is wrong. And you're when they then you let them, you test them, you let them have some freedom to go out and either do what you said or not. And when they don't do it, you correct it. You know, sometimes that correcting correction comes through, you know, a board of knowledge to the seat of instruction. Um, you know, sometimes that's a restriction of privileges and those kind of things, but you're you're correcting bad behavior and you're rewarding good behavior. But you're a controller, then your corrector, as you kind of go up in age and open up the funnel a little bit. Now you're a coach. You're you're as they get into those middle years and start transitioning into the teen years, they're kind of coaching them on the principles you've instilled in them when they're young. Um, they're gonna get out into school and neighborhood and all those kind of things and start to expand their social uh awareness and their social experience, get into church life and expose to more and more people. Uh, and you're kind of coaching them through those relationships, through the triumphs and the tragedies and all the things that they go through in life. Um, and uh, you know, with the long-term goal though, is that you kind of open up the funnel and let them out into the world as they go into college or trade school or get into life and business and work life and all those kind of things. Now you're now you're a wise counselor in their life. So um, and that's kind of the stage the Melinda are in that right now, is just this joyful time of being a counselor to them and now helping them to go back with their kids and then you know be controller and and and uh corrector and things like that. So yeah, it's just a joyful time, and that that counselor stages, man, that's that's awesome. That's a lot of fun because but uh along the way, as they're as you are the coach and then the counselor in their life, they are their minds are popping with questions as they're experiencing the world and asking you for help, you know. So you take them back to the word of God and you shape by your own, you know, your understanding of the word of God and your own experiences and how you've lived that out, that all gets passed on to them.
SPEAKER_00So well said. I I'm jotting down, I was jotting down some notes just in my in my phone here to remember those four C's are really helpful, and we'll drop those in the show notes and and post them as well on socials so people can can kind of hear that quoted and and take that with them. I want to talk briefly about a man and his role as provider in the home. What is a a man's role in in providing? How does that play out? Uh you you hear a lot of debates today on on this because some will say, well, my wife can make more money than me. We prefer, I'm not being cheeky when I say this, just kind of the not the stay-at-home mom approach, but the daddy daycare, just to put it in a kind of an alliterated approach in that sense, because my wife can go make way more. Or you've got like husband can make something, but man, if my wife goes to work, we could have more. Um, what are the principles that homes should be thinking about? And then what role does a man play in providing even being sensitive to the nuances of some young men? Like I remember uh you to be honest, you walked with me and my wife during this season, where when I first got saved and I started to get an understanding of a biblical home, and you were walking with me. Man, I wanted nothing more than for my wife to be home. We're gonna have a baby, and I was like, we gotta get I she wants to be and she wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. And man, bridging that gap took time. I had to get two jobs. I ended up working for a a country club at some point, and it was like phasing out, but it was hard. Like it wasn't like overnight Travis Allen told me what a biblical home should look like, and I went home and my wife quit, and now we had no money, and nothing worked, but we were obedient. It's like, will you still and then we were getting uh calls from the collectors and like I was a pastor in training? Um, no one was was like throwing a big paycheck my way either. So all of those things can you shepherd all of us almost the way that you supported and encouraged us in those early years, and yet remembering men need to be getting after it, maybe.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, I yeah, I I uh I do sympathize. It's a it's a um it's a it's there it's a tough world, it's always gonna be a tough world, it's always gonna be a challenge. But I think that uh we just got to go back to the blueprint and the design. And what did God design men for? What did God design a woman for? And you know, her her nurturing, you know, her nurt her nurturing nature, uh, just that especially as those children come into the picture and those those kind of motherly instincts that come out, she is you know beautifully designed by God, wisely designed to attend to those kids and really shape them, give herself to them. And there's nothing there there is no better picture sometimes I can see of self-sacrifice, giving up the self, denying the self than a than a young mother who's who's just she's not getting sleep, she's you know, her her body's you know bent out of shape just having children, and she's recovering from all that, but she is still giving herself to that baby. And as those as those little babies start to grow up and she continues to give, and you know, you you you threaten that little baby, you're gonna see that mother's wrath come out, and you just you just see some really, really good things in her uh that are admirable qualities. But uh, you know, she she's compromised in her effectiveness in doing that when you have her in the workplace, when you have her earning a paycheck. Is is money what's needed for those little kids? Not really. It's it's really her and what God gave and put into her and kind of hardwired into her that will come out as those little kids uh are in her life. I mean, obviously, her character, just like ours, needs to be shaped by the word of God, her her understanding, and all that ought to be happening through the local church and those family Bible times and things like that. But man, it's the more she's shaped and formed by the word of God and the teaching and preaching of the word of God and the other examples in her life, the best comes out of her as she's then shaping those kids. Don't compromise that by putting her in the workforce. So, you know, if another paycheck is what's needed, you go do that, you know, as a man. We're built for utility, we're built for uh the world, we're built to take the knocks of the world, not just with our bodies being you know bigger and stronger, you know, on a general sense, but also just with our our makeup, our disposition, our nature is it's not as nurturing, it's much more um you know, goal-oriented, and you know, we'll take the knocks of life and and uh brush it off and get back in the fight, get back in the game. And I think that we, you know, it's just important for men to do what men are designed to do. Get out there in the world, provide, protect, and uh bring home paychecks. And so, I mean, we Lynn and I, you know, I I kind of had the view when I when I first got married to her. Um, you know, we both we both worked, and and I don't say there's any problem with her working as we're young, married, and she doesn't have anything to do at home. And so she was trying to, we came to the same place. I was going to school, she was we're both working at the school at the campus, and she had one job, I had a different job. We're both you know, kind of trying to make ends meet through that. She got pregnant, and um, you know, as she's as she's with child and growing, the child's growing within her. Uh, she's still at that job, and and she was she was starting to say things like, Hey, so you know, can I just you know, I'm thinking about when the baby's born, I'll just stay home. And I'm like, why? You know, how you hell are you gonna need a like week or two to you know get through that phase and get back to work? And I didn't I didn't know, and um, and I can't remember why I thought this, but at some point, you know, I think she I think it was her praying. Um but I I came to this realization, wait a minute, you can't go back to work. You'll be a mom. And uh, and and from then on, I mean, we had she had the baby, she got out of the workplace, was in the home, and we were poor. We had no, we had no money. But I just I was going to school full time and I was working full-time, and then some, but the Lord provided. There were there were some very lean years in there, but we never went without a meal. We never we never had to live in our car. Uh, we always had a place to live. We just believed that if we are trying to pursue obedience to the Lord, you know, sticking with his purpose in our design, trying to follow the blueprint, we just believed that he was going to provide. We just kind of trusted him to take care of us, and lo and behold, he took care of us. There were it didn't always come through even the paychecks, you know, what it looked like on paper. I remember one time we had a a family of four, and we're in North Carolina, and I'm going to school and um you know working full-time, and it just didn't, it just didn't provide a lot of money. There was one year that we looked at our taxes, and we only made somewhere around $12,000 per year. I thought, how is this how is this possible? We looked back though and saw other people would say, Hey, could you guys use some groceries? And they'd bring groceries, or some people would provide little things. So it it all of a sudden we could see the Lord providing for us, not just through a paycheck, but then through the generosity of Christians who just wanted to love us and care for us. We didn't want to be a burden on anybody, we didn't go, you know, kind of leaning on them and say, Hey, wouldn't you like to help a poor student? You know, we didn't we didn't uh play on their emotions or anything like that. They just maybe they just saw us and thought, that's a family with some needs, and so they provide, you know, tried to help us out. And there had to be a for us is a humility that came along with that just to receive help and to to realize that we we had needs and and this is God's way of helping us. So anyway, that the Lord just continued to take care of us, and we get into positions where you know maybe I need to get some extra work, or or maybe maybe scale down my education at the at that point and get a get a better paying job, and whatever it was, uh we just had we just kind of flexed with what the Lord was leading, you know, revealing his providence. We took whatever we could, I worked hard, and you know, sometimes I had to go without a little sleep, but the Lord has always taken care of us. So I just want to encourage, I want to encourage people to think like Christians to think to think as as a child would of his father trusting him, realizing that that father, you know, that that two-year-old looks up at the father and he's the biggest thing in the world. You know, he's like strong and competent and useful. We're the children of a heavenly father who is who's who so eternally, infinitely outpaces any human father. And his heart is always good, always kind. His his power is limitless, his his care, his love is without measure. Can we trust him if he if we're trying to be obedient to the design that he put into our life and into this world and the institution of the family? Can we trust him to take care of us through that? I believe we can. We've tested that and found him to be faithful.
SPEAKER_00Amen. I'll never forget that season. And you had sent me some books, and we had talked a ton, and I was reading and reading, and I remember um you know, I ended up having somebody who was kind of in our relational orbit, had some poll at a a country club and in the restaurant kind of food industry and uh just privately came and said, Hey, if you know, if you wanted a second job, I'd be happy to to make that happen for you. And I I think I hear you talking and I think, man, the issue is our own hearts. My heart issues at that point were well then like why do I have to take all this on, slash uh I'm not gonna sleep a lot, uh, slash pride, slash, you know, man, this kind of stinks. Like the prosperity gospel, you never worry about money. I'm not asking for that on this side, but okay, but I have to do this now? Like we're gonna work till 2 a.m. And it all those those just pride and frustration and expectations and also just the flat out challenge of just being a man, take the hit, take the sacrifice. And I remember stepping, I'll say, out in faith, if you will, in that season, meaning just trusting the Lord, like, okay, I'm gonna do this. And brother, I just remember being enough in the black, and I was like, it's it's working like this, okay. And you just now it's hard, but my wife, I remember those seasons and the tears of joy. And so I think what you're saying is so helpful. Can I get your insight now on how a man should be involved in the financial health and management of his home? Perhaps, well, not even perhaps, for sure. There's uh men who are listening or families that are listening to this, and they're they're like, Yeah, you know, I he's takes care of the finances, he does everything. Maybe wife's not in the loop, or just kind of like whatever. She spends whatever as long as there's more coming in than what gets spent. I think uh one of those financial guys online called that out earning our stupidity on one on one end of the spectrum. Uh on the other side, there there may be men that are like, look, I make the money, whatever. Like she she's in charge of that. I don't I don't want to be involved in that. Um whatever all the different views are, biblically, what should anchor every home and how should a man be involved in the financial health and planning and management as a steward?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, um, great question. I think you know, once again, I kind of go back to the paradigm of the local church and how how the structure of the local church and the leadership and authority of the local church is is is really um paradigmatic for our our families. Each of the individual families kind of looks to the structure and the leadership and authority of the local church and how it's handled. We want to follow that example. You know, you wouldn't you would you would see any group of elders in a church that just that just kind of sloughed off their responsibility to oversee the finances of the church and said, Ah, I just don't really get into the whole numbers thing, and I'm just gonna have I don't care that that guy can take care of it. You would see that as an as a serious neglect of his stewardship and his responsibilities. That is, that's the Lord's people bringing their offerings before the elders and saying, invest this wisely. Let's let's be good stewards of this. I mean, I've earned this out there in the working world, and I'm bringing a portion of that to you, and because I want to be involved in the stewardship and partnership of the gospel in our community, and I'm trusting you as elders to manage this wisely and use it purposefully. And any elder that then would just kind of slough that off to some, you know, somebody else and just not even pay attention to it. You'd say, fire that guy and get somebody in there who actually sees stewardship as a good responsibility. So I don't say that elders, you know, don't they don't need to be experts in finances, but they have they have responsibility and oversight over that. Take that now into the family. A man, he may have a wife who's really competent with with finance, and that, you know, God bless him, that's awesome. You know, let her let her uh let her serve in that way, let her be helpful, uh a suitable helper to you in that way. But that doesn't mean you just pass it off. You need to be, you need to bring yourself up to speed in in principles of budget and finance enough that you can understand um what comes in needs to be more than what goes out, and you need to understand some basic, you know, some basic principles of budgeting and where category should be and how much percentages should be, and just be overseeing that as your wife handles maybe some of the details of that. I know that not all wives are good at that, and don't make them be, you know, let them let them do what they're really good at. I mean, certainly they're gonna be better mothers than you are because that's how God designed them to be. So you you don't burden their motherly responsibility and their home keep homekeeping responsibility with the things that are really your job. So I just say you gotta you gotta take take that on, and especially it, you know, it's not it's not just how we spend money, it's it's the mentality of stewardship, and all of life is a stewardship. Certainly money, but my time, my energy, my imagination, my private life, my um, you know, my relationships, church life, work life, everything is given to us by God so that we can invest it and use it for kingdom purposes. If we think about entire life as a gift from God and he expects a return on his investment in us, we're gonna think differently about the finances in our home too. And the man needs to be have exercise oversight responsibility there and not just not just hand it off to his wife and pay no attention to it. That would be that would be a uh neglect of his responsibility, a serious dereliction of duty.
SPEAKER_00That's so balanced. That's so balanced and and such a helpful framework. So everyone's listening, you could just summarize that saying uh no know your role and know your home. Or if you're a man, know thy wife. What how is she wired? And in that, you still got to fulfill your role. Okay, last question, and then we'll land the plane on this episode on the home. What would you say to encourage a man who's trying to balance, working to provide discipleship like you talked about earlier, the stress of life, the pressures? He's got the weight of the world he feels at times, trials as well, and then the internal deep dark feelings that men don't often share that we feel inadequate and we feel ill-equipped. Could you speak uh a word of encouragement into that man's life and his thinking?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And you're right to say that these are things that all men feel, but don't feel real comfortable sharing. You know, there's a there's a sense, and I get it. You know, you're not gonna you're not gonna run around whining about all the things that are difficult for you. Um, I get that, I understand that. But at the same time, we do have these thoughts and feelings. You know, you call them inadequacy, uh, you know, a sense of uh insecurity, I'm not measuring up, I'm not doing enough, or whatever. Those kind of those can haunt our thoughts. I think that uh when we have those thoughts and concerns, first of all, we need to recognize that we are limited. You know, we're limited by design, we're creatures. Every creature is limited. You know, birds don't don't uh are not able to fly underwater, and fish are not able to fly outside the water. So you know, animals are land animals, they don't they don't dwell in either of those spaces well. Um they have limitations, we have limitations. We live within the limitations of space and time that we have. We live within the limitations of of what we each of us are, our our dispositions, our natures, our experiences. I I don't have the experience of being a Harvard grad. I have the experience of being a graduate of the different institutions I've been to, which are not Harvard level. Um I have limitations in my understanding of things, my exposure to things. It's okay for me to live within those limitations and accept God's providence in my life and say, God, God's given me this life, not that life, not that life, but this life. And I'm just gonna do the best and bloom where I'm planted and be give glory to God in the stewardship of the life that He's given to me. Um, live within that and and accept the limitations that God's given to you, uh, even though we're we're always kind of pushing the boundaries of those limitations, and that's part of our ambition and drive and desire, right? But the other thing that happens is we think about inadequacy and those pressures and things like that. Those are all really good because they drive us to our knees to go to the one who has no limitations whatsoever. He has no he has no uh weakness, no lack of energy, he's got all power, all strength. He's he's he's got all wisdom. I mean, I find that's sometimes the most difficult things as a leader, as a whether it's in my home or whether it's in the church. I've I face situations that are pretty perplexing. And and uh, you know, sometimes sometimes they're way beyond my wisdom. And so that drives me to my knees and asking the Lord for great help and wisdom. It's amazing how He will answer those prayers and give us what we need for the moment and help us to make the first decision well that opens up another another vistas of other things that we could not have foreseen, and all of a sudden now we're walking in clarity. But God does that, he wants us to come to him and pray to him. He's a he's the giver of all good things, he's the giver of the wisdom to those who ask. And and we're not meant to handle everything on our own. We we are meant to be team players, and the the the one that's on the team who has the who has who swings the biggest bat is the Lord God Himself. Let's go to him.
SPEAKER_00Amen. Amen. Look to Christ, brother. Thank you for your kindness, your time, your seasoned wisdom, and most of all for staying anchored in biblical truth, the role of men in the home, so helpful. Thank you for that.
SPEAKER_01Enjoyed it, Costi. Really good spending time with you again. And going down memory lane a little bit, too, of uh what we both walked through together. That's funny.
SPEAKER_00Oh, beyond grateful. My wife, uh, probably no more than her. She's the most grateful. I because she had to marry me and deal with me. And I needed brothers like you in my corner. Uh, for those of you listening, next episode, we're gonna answer the big question: how should men protect their family? We're gonna talk about the practical questions that men often have. Might I even add the imaginations and and really the God-given desire within us. I think as men, many times we think, man, if someone ever tried to do this to my family, I would this, or what would you do? There's something that God has put in us as protectors and as providers and as men, but as Travis has helped us see over these episodes, that has to be shaped by the Holy Spirit, by Christ, to bear his fruit. So we're gonna answer that question. And then uh to finish this series, we're gonna talk about the role of men in the church and how God has called men and shaped men to be on the front lines of his plan A, the church, to reach the lost and to equip saints. Travis, thanks again, brother.
SPEAKER_01Enjoyed it, man. See ya, have a good one.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Uh, thanks again for everyone for listening, for watching, for supporting. We'll be back next Monday with another episode. Keep on living for the gospel.