Welcome to the For the Gospel Podcast, where we provide sound doctrine for everyday people. I'm your host, Kasti Hinn, and today I have a special interview with you. It's gonna be a wonderful bonus episode that you can enjoy. It is with a friend of mine, Easy, who serves as the president of Living Waters Ministries, a wonderful brother, but an incredible voice on issues of pornography, sexual sin, purity, waging war against temptation. And we talked recently for upwards of an hour, and I think this is gonna bless you in a tremendous way. Get ready, buckle up. If you're listening, you may want to go back and listen again at some point and take notes. This is one of those episodes that I think you can go back to time and time again, share with a small group, or dig in, whether you're a man or a woman, we visit this issue from both angles and we talk to you about what it means to be a faithful Christian, guarding your purity and walking in holiness with our great God. Let's jump in. You're gonna love it. So many questions answered. Here's easy and our wonderful conversation. Easy, welcome to For the Gospel, bro.
SPEAKER_01Good to be with you, man. I mean, come on, two Arab dudes hanging out in Arizona. Let's go. All places, the desert makes us feel like we're at home. Yeah, to take people behind the curtain for just a moment. We just had some great Middle Eastern food. Oh, brother. That's a way to prime a guy for a thing like this. Get some more. Or prime you for a nap. That's true. That's true, actually.
SPEAKER_00I need some Arabic coffee. The good stuff right now. The black stuff used to make. Oh, so good. Well, I am not only a big fan of yours and love your work because you are uh my Arab brother. Habibi. I Habibi is right. I also really appreciate your ministry. Can you just share real quick what is your title? Like, what do you currently do? And then I want to talk briefly about the book you wrote because the stuff we're talking about with sexual immorality, purity, porn, lust, and then fighting those things as men, but also for women who face this, are all important. That's the topic matter, but what are you doing right now? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So president of Living Waters, so uh chief floor sweeper, basically. Let's go. You know, the cool thing, a lot of people don't know. They know raised my father-in-law, but they don't realize, you know, I'm from Lebanon of Arab descent, he's of Jewish descent. And together we're the solution to the Mid-East crisis. Yeah, you are. And if that fails, we're just gonna start a new mattress company called Easy Comfort and just call it call it a day. Um, so yeah, you've told that joke before just once a year. I've never heard it, but it's gotta be a new new, yeah. So, no, man, it's you know, it's one of those like pinch yourself kind of things. I remember first hearing about Ray Comfort. First time I heard about him, some guy comes up to me and that I had met at a Bible college. I was visiting some friends, and he goes, Man, you ever heard of this guy named Ray Comfort? And then he looks around like he's about to do a drug deal. He's like, he goes, He's crazy. And then he sticks a book in my hand called Springboards for Effective Evangelism. I took it out of courtesy. I'm thinking that's gonna go on that pile of books at home I'm never gonna read. But by God's providence, man, I picked it up and just was blown away by the stuff this guy was doing, like a modern-day apostle Paul. He's standing up proclaiming Christ, Mars Hill style, you know. And so, so, you know, I was so impacted by the ministry. I remember one day distinctly dropping to my knees in my room and saying, Lord, I pray that someday, some way, this man can disciple me. And so blank, here we are, almost 30 years later. He's my not just a disciple, he's my father-in-law, you know. Unbelievable. And so it's amazing. You know, there's that saying that says, never meet your heroes. Because, you know, we build people up, then we meet them, we realize they weren't all we thought they were crazy. But with Ray, man, he's been, again, my father-in-law almost 30 years. It's been the exact opposite. The more I know him, the more my respect grows. He's a real deal. I mean, what people see on our videos, you know, our podcasts, um uh TV show, this is him like 24-7. I've never seen the guy have an off day when it comes to the gospel. He's just got his face set like a flint and he knows what he's here to do. And most humble, gracious, godly man. And uh so what an inspiration. Yeah, man. It's been a joy. Yeah, I've been doing that now, uh coming on almost 23 years in January. So big time.
SPEAKER_00I'm so glad you're doing what you do. Grateful for Living Waters and uh our ministry for the gospel is all about the gospel, and you guys have really been you've been the the the pace setter, you've kind of been the pace vehicle and like a thoroughbred, and nothing really slowing down. I mean, Ray continues to be sort of the ageless wonder, uh, he just keeps going, and you carrying the torch, living waters is poised for just such a joy, man.
SPEAKER_01You know, Ray's about to hit 76. Wow. The older he gets, it's like the more energy he gets. It's like Chuck Norris. It's crazy. And he just discovered coffee. Like for he hadn't had a drop of coffee for 59 years. No pun intended. No, yeah, until we're on the podcast. And I said, Ray, you gotta try coffee. And bro, it like changed his life. Wow. He's like, ah, he's doing stuff. He had to be a good one.
SPEAKER_00Ray Comfort with coffee. Yeah, bro. We've had Ray Comfort with no coffee, and it's been what it is. Yeah, it's like a gerbil on speed.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it's it's beyond, bro. So amazing. But he's great. And you know, uh, Mark Spence, Oscar Navarro, such a great team that the Lord has assembled. And, you know, we're thinking about succession. I mean, again, Ray 76, and a lot of times ministries die with their founder. Yep, you know, but we we've wanted to be provident in that regard to look ahead and say, man, how can we keep this ministry going? So, you know, we're all a part of the podcast, the TV show, the YouTube channel. We're at 1.65 million subs now, 325 million views. And that just it's a shock. You know, our tagline at the end of the podcast is we have no idea what we're doing. Oh, it's so good. We started the podcast and we didn't know anything about podcasts. We're like, all right, let's do it. And we just jumped in there. And on that first episode, I said we had we have no idea what we're doing, and it's our tagline. Now it's one of the top podcasts in the world. We're like, what in the world? You know, but that's like the story of Ray's life because he does things because he never knew that he couldn't. And so lo and behold, he just steps out in faith and the Lord does great things.
SPEAKER_00Well, you wrote a book recently. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about Fight Like a Man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Fight Like a Man. Uh, the subtitle is a bold biblical battle plan for personal purity. You know, Cossi, having pastored myself in the past and even now just engaging in people's lives that ask for counsel, I mean, sexual immorality, especially in connection with pornography, is like the issue of the day. And the tragedy is, is it surfaces whenever like a big well-known Christian leader falls or someone's marriage is about to get destroyed, comes up in their life personally, or you know, with the other one across the body. But then, man, goes right back under the radar. I mean, it's the it's the ginormous elephant in the room. Uh, it's not the gnat in the room, it's not the flea, it's not the ant in the room, it's the elephant. And we're, you know, there's a reason why that that saying goes like that, because you know, we're it's right in front of us and we're just trying to pretend it's not there. And so, you know, there's there's a lot of books out there on the subject, but I felt that there were some gaps. And so I wanted to hit some sweet spots. Um, I wanted a book that was biblically based, but theologically sound because anyone can quote scripture, but is it is it theologically accurate? Yeah. And then I wanted a book though that was extremely practical. Because you have some books that are theologically sound, they're biblically based, but but they're not practical. They don't kind of show guys like here's what you can do. And then I wanted it to be memorable because if you don't remember it, often we read a book and then it's gone, you know. But then I wanted it to also be gospel-centric, Christocentric, uh, so that that that's the hope that people have to find freedom. And then I wanted it to be non-graphic, uh, because believe it or not, I've had some guys say, Man, I I read this book on pornography, Christian book, and it stumbled me.
SPEAKER_00I've heard the same thing, like they get to use the word triggered. Yeah, but you really got to watch some of these things you do. And you'll see people online sometimes are talking about their story, or you'll hear various things about testimonies, and people can get very vivid, and you're like, ah, you know, swipe, or I don't want to be. That's I'm so glad God did that. But I don't need that much detail. Totally. Um, because now I gotta go have my mind renewed and I've just got to go, yeah, nope. I don't want to be going down that rabbit trail. Yeah, that's so yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that was my heart, you know. So I all those things, it's not like not like it's a tall order or anything, but by God's grace, um, from the feedback I've gotten, I I have a website or email address at the end of the book. I say, guys, if you've been impacted by this, let me know. But I've been getting scores of emails from guys saying this has transformed my life. And I was humbled. You know, Dr. John MacArthur endorsed it before he passed. Um uh Ray Comfort endorsed it, Kirk Cameron, Ken Ham wrote the forew to the book. And the success has shown me that men want help. Yes, you know, and so it was the number one new release, number one bestseller on Amazon in its category, and even out of all categories, it was one of the top books in its debut. And I'm I've just been blown away by what the Lord's been doing with it.
SPEAKER_00So well, it's necessary, it's needed, it's a huge issue, so I'm not surprised the Lord would bless it for the good of his people, not just men, but women, and then the glory of his name. I've got a number of questions I want to ask you. Absolutely. I think these are gonna be so helpful for people. And uh the first one is what are the negative and destructive impacts of porn on a relationship, whether dating, engaged, or married? So let's, if you want to just do those three categories, kind of rapid fire, right? What's gonna be the fallout?
SPEAKER_01You know, it's amazing how because something becomes so common, people get desensitized. Like I always talk to people about this when they, you know, hit me up. Hey, do you think I should go to my cousin's gay marriage? I say, well, let me put it this way. Would you go to your friend's incestuous marriage? Your friend was gonna marry her father. Oh, you know, and they're like, but the only reason why they're open to going to a gay wedding is because they're desensitized. I mean, this is an abomination, right? Either way you go. So there's been this desensitization to pornography and sexual sin at such a level that people are blinded to its destruction. I mean, just even in terms of what happens to your brain, right? Your brain gets so accustomed to the massive dopamine dump that your actual brain physiologically begins to reformat. There are physiological changes to regions of your brain. I mean, pornography, it's indisputable. It contributes to depression, it contributes to suicidal tendencies, it contributes to helplessness, hopelessness. I mean, you can go down the list. Even sexual health within a marriage, because of what it does to uh increase expectations that are unrealistic, um, to poor decision-making processes that trigger in your brain, destructive. But even setting all of that aside or considering all that, when you set it aside, you think about the relational destruction from a trust standpoint, whether you're engaged or whether you're married or whether you're in a relationship, what signal does that send to the person that you are saying you want to pledge the rest of your life to or that you have pledged the rest of your life to when you are constantly and continually and regularly committing adultery, which is what it is. Yeah, it's not physical. And of course, when it comes down to certain ways of handling it, you have to delineate. But but at the end of the day, like you are engaging in total infidelity and sexual morality. You look at a woman, yeah, lust for her in your heart. You're guilty of adultery, you know. So I think there needs to be that understanding because here's one of the biggest, I think, deceptive factors. It's men thinking, those that aren't married, oh, when I get married, I'll be fine. I need porn now because, well, you know, I'm not married. And but once I'm married, oh, well, the guys that look at porn the most, I would say, and that go even deeper in it, are the guys that are married. They're married, yeah. Because now they're open to that realm, they're experiencing it, and and now they they wanna they want to probe deeper into that. And so if it's a pre-existing problem before marriage, you can bet that it's going to be a massive problem in marriage if it's not taken care of because it's an issue of the heart.
SPEAKER_00Let me rapid fire real quick. So, dating relationship, let's say there was a guy who was addicted to pornography, he was honest about that and his struggles in some sort of uh college small group or some kind of thing, and he's dating, and we don't need to like overly personalize it, but like if it whether it was your daughter or a girl in the church, doesn't matter. We're supposed to treat all young women like sisters, the Bible calls us to. So he's dating a gal, he's addicted to pornography. Are you counseling to break that relationship off?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let me say this before I even answer that, because I think this is an important preface. No matter who's listening or watching right now, no matter how badly they've veered into pornography, how deep they've gotten, how heinous the sin is, there is hope in Christ. Amen. Total hope, total possibility for restoration. Because I also tell guys this look, there's a difference between a flash of lust and pornography or other sexual sin, fornication, adultery, right? I will never tell a guy you'll never have a flash of lust. But but I tell guys all the time, and everyone who's listening or watching right now, I want you to know that it is possible for you, under the sound of my voice right now, from this moment, to never ever look at pornography again, to never fornicate with your girlfriend again, to never head toward toward adultery again. The reason for that is because again, a flash of lust is instant, it happens. Pornography, fornication, adultery, that's a process. Yes. You take you take uh pornography as an example. You have to make a decision to go sit down at your computer, fire the computer up, open up your browser. If it's your phone, you gotta grab your phone, iPad, open up the browser, right? Put in, you know, find a search word, put that in, go to the sites, open the sites, scroll. A lot of steps. Process. And those steps are big. It's possible to never do that again. Amen. And that's the hope we have. So as it relates to someone who's in a relationship, look, I've had guys who've wanted to court my daughters. First question when they come to me, where are you at with pornography? First question. And if they tell me that they are active in pornography, it's a deal breaker. Yep. It's a deal breaker. Now there's a difference. If it's a guy who says to me, sir, I did struggle with pornography, but a year ago I cut it off. Here's what I did, sir. I got accountability. I got rid of my smartphone because I needed to. It was so bad. I got a flip phone, hypothetically. Uh, I I've I've immersed myself in scripture. I've read X amount of books. Uh, I get regular accountability. Here's what I have on my my computers, on my phone, accountability software, et cetera, et cetera. That's a whole different matter. Yes. And that man may receive my blessing. If it's clear that he's been walking out there.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely not. No. Get to, you know, this gutter sort of style Christianity toss them aside. But a guy who says man is ways you want.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but a guy who says, I'm currently entrenched in pornography, of course not. I'm not going to entrust my daughter to you. That's an incentive for the young men listening today because hopefully more fathers will step up and do that. We're the guardians. Yeah, we're the guardians of our daughters. And a lot of times that's not done. Girl marries a man, two years later, she uncovers he's he's been entrenched in grotesque pornography and immorality. And it's like, you had this problem? It's like never knew because it was never asked, never vetted. I even tell young ladies, they need to ask that question very, very early on. Yeah. And getting to know a young man who has expressed interest in her.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Okay. Engagement. You've already put a ring on it and he's taking a knee. Will you marry me? She's like, oh yes. And then all of a sudden, during the engagement process, all this comes out. What's your recommendation there? It would depend.
SPEAKER_01Uh, here's something I ask young men, and man, we're getting deep here.
SPEAKER_00And I'm I mean, I'm a local pastor, so these are like my questions are all related to real life stuff, not theory.
SPEAKER_01So so it would depend on the nature of it. So they're engaged, and she finds out that he's been entrenched in pornography for a decade, two decades. He watches it every day multiple times a day. And see, the thing with pornography is that because, like I said, of the dopamine dump and the reorientation of the regions of the brain, what ends up happening is that, like a drug, you need more and more and more. So it gets more hardcore, more intense, deeper, longer, more, more frequent. Do you know what one of the most popular genres of pornography is incest?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's like the number one and child pornography now on the rise like crazy. Right. So so when I when I have talked to young men uh, you know, who have expressed interest in my daughters or who have, you know, wanted to be involved in different aspects of ministry, I'll ask the deep questions. I'll say, well, how far have you gone into porn? Have you watched incestuous porn? Have you watched bestiality? I mean, it's crazy to even talk about this stuff, but it's reality, man. This stuff is happening constantly. And so it would depend on the nature of it. I I believe in some circumstances it's justifiable to cut off the engagement. Uh, and not saying that it could never be there be a reconciliation. But and again, it depends. If it's a guy saying, Man, I've had some struggles, I've looked at some stuff, uh, you know, I've I've I've blown it here and there in the course of a year a few times. It may be different, but what is he doing now? What's he going to do now? So each situation is different. As a pastor, you understand you got to apply it to the specific circumstance. But I would say at the very least, there needs to be massive caution and intensive counseling to figure out where to go from that.
SPEAKER_00The reason I asked is because I just want to encourage people and I want to free up space for the conversation so that they know you can go to war. Like just because you're dating someone, right, doesn't mean you're stuck. Yeah. You should confess it if you're if you're the one using it, and you could break that thing off for sure. If it's at a certain point like that, yeah. Don't be afraid to cut it off with the grace of God driving the next step. Absolutely. If you're engaged, same idea. Like I think a lot of women maybe feel trapped, or if it's a man and a woman says, I've been using pornography. Sometimes engagement and it's betrothal, like very similar to the Bible. I know Christians, we treat it seriously, it's not flippant. Right. You got a ring on your finger. It's like you, it's the already now, it's the now now, but not yet. You know, it's that kind of idea. Right. Well, let's also open up the conversation for fearlessness. Don't care about the wedding invitations have already been sent. Don't care about the venues already been booked and the flowers. If this guy's addicted to ancestrus pornography, or if she is rampant in it and there's no action plan, no battle plan, no willingness to fight like a man, and no honesty until this like moment you get caught or something. Guess what? You're going into marriage with secrets. And that we all know the damage to that. So I want I wanted you talking about that because these are the conversations we need to be having. Last category marriage. Yeah. You got a married couple, whether it's the man or the woman. What should someone do if they're actively engaging with pornography at some level of regularity in that regard?
SPEAKER_01Well, there needs to be confrontation. And I think that some women especially are afraid to confront, even though they may be aware of it because they're afraid of what that might do to the security. They're afraid of the husband flipping on them divorcing them, they're afraid of tension in the marriage. But you know, I love how 1 Corinthians 13 has as a descriptive for Agape love that it doesn't seek its own. Yes. Because on the flip side, other women just lose it and explode and just wrath comes out and that blows things up too. But I love how it says in 1 Corinthians 13 that love doesn't seek its own. It's selfless. So when it comes to the area of confrontation, it should be influenced by that reality, that it doesn't seek its own. So because when I'm personally offended, then when I go to correct or confront, I'm gonna violate all the other attributes of agape love because it's coming from a selfish perspective. But if I'm not seeking my own, then here's what first comes to mind my spouse is in sin. So what does this mean? Well, first of all, they're sinning against the God that I love above all else. God is being hurt. Secondly, they're they're hurting other people because they're minimizing their testimony and their impact as a believer, whether toward the lost or the saved. And third of all, they're hurting themselves because you can't sin and leave unscathed without being spiritually wounded. Wow. So now the outlook is what? Love doesn't seek its own. So as they're in sin, even in this pornography, what's happening? Well, they're hurting the Lord, they're hurting others, they're hurting themselves. I love the Lord, I love others, I love them. So now my mode of correction has infused into it all the other attributes of a company.
SPEAKER_00Everything. Right? As you're talking, I'm thinking about any form of confrontation. Right. So love doesn't seek its own. Right. So that's the lens you come to. So good.
SPEAKER_01So now what? When I'm correcting, when I'm approaching, when I'm confronting what? I'm patient because love is patient. I'm kind. I'm not, I'm there's it's no outbursts of wrath. I I'm not keeping records of wrong. It's all simply I love God, others, and them. So now I'm gonna approach in that way. So I think that's key. But a part of that is because love doesn't seek its own, you want to see this remedied. So confrontation must be prime. And if you confront and there isn't repentance, now you're in Matthew 18 territory. And this is where the value of the local church comes in. So often overlooked and and not accessed. And that is that man, you need to now bring others. Ultimately, it has to go to the church. It's for the good of your spouse. Done with a lot of patience, tenderness, long suffering. Uh, but but I think it's essential. And then you you hold them accountable to get the help that they really need to cut the sin off.
SPEAKER_00So good. What are some of the misconceptions about women and their use of pornography with comparison to men? Right.
SPEAKER_01Well, boy, you know, the statistics tell us costly 75. Of professing Christian men look at pornography. Wow. 75%. 40% of women are now looking at porn.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_01Which shocked me when I heard that. You know, they say 18% of pastors, I think it's higher than that because most aren't going to be forthcoming about that. No one's going to tell the truth. Yeah. And but this is the one that shocked me, man. 95% of 11-year-olds will have looked at porn. 95%. So you think about that, right? I mean, look, when I was a kid, man, you had to have a friend whose dad had a stash and you you were able to look at a magazine, or you had to steal a VHS tape back then from a liquor store or something. Now, at the click of a button, you've got access to millions, if not billions, of images and videos. So what's happened with women, and why I'm blown away that it's 40%, because this wasn't typically a woman issue. She's usually like the dirty romance novels and stuff like that, right? Sure, but it's framed up as a male issue when it comes to pornography. But I think the reason why, because women and men are different, right? You always have exceptions, but men are more visually oriented than women are, right? But the thing is, is that because of how pervasive it's become, how, how, how ubiquitous it's become, what's happened is women have been sparked by curiosity. Like, man, my husband, my my sons, I hear about it, everyone's doing it. But now there's another added element, and that added element is accessibility. Wow. Because before a woman might be curious, like, well, what's what's this about? But where's the access? Now, well, let me check it out. And then they get hooked. So, I mean, youth groups right now are just shaking their heads at what to do because of the girls in the youth group who are now hooked on pornwares. They weren't used to, you know, dealing with this. And so, so no, it's a real problem. And it's it's ravaging men, women, children, families. It's decimating the church. And that's why I wrote the book, man. And it's high time that we deal with this. You know, we go to the extremes, right? It's like, well, everybody does it, and I mean, that's okay, and God's grace, and and then the other extreme is beat down and condemnation, and it's like you're a loser and you're not saved. No, man, there is hope in Christ, but we can't just treat this like it's not a big problem. It's massive, massive. And and the ripple effects that affect marriages, families, children, the testimony of the gospel. You know, what I say to men all the time is look, you know, you're called to fight. That's that's what the title is. And masculinity isn't just someone who's buff and deep voiced and athletic. Sure, that all can be a part of it. But real masculinity has at its core a man who's willing to be courageous, to, to have conviction, to have character, to walk in love, to be willing to sacrifice, even to the point of laying their lives down for others. And men aren't doing that. They're not ready for the battle. We're walking around with this peacetime mentality when we're smack dab in the middle of a raging war. And, you know, I usually share this with people. I say, look, can you imagine a soldier during World War II being deluded into thinking that he's on a luxury cruise ship heading for the shores of Bora Bora to an exotic resort when in reality he's on a Higgins boat heading for the shores of World War II, Normandy. I mean, this dude's gonna be sauntering off the Higgin boats, Higgins boat, clad in a bathrobe, some fluffy slippers, a remote in one hand, a latte in the other, and no doubt some pink polka dotted skinny jeans, right?
SPEAKER_00Provocative imagery.
SPEAKER_01I'm an Arab man. You know, you gotta what? But this But that's how crazy it is. This dude's gonna get smoked. Yep. Or a first step on the battlefield. But that's what men are doing. That's how ridiculous. They're walking around acting like, oh yeah, you know, porn, I struggle, I blew it again last night. Bro, you are you are in the midst of a raging war for your soul, for your family, for your kids, and it's time we fight.
SPEAKER_00We got two big questions. First, I want to talk about spiritual leadership. So, do you think that the issue of spiritual leadership and its deficiency in the church today with men, we have so many men that aren't leading, do you think it's related to their pornography use way more than we realize?
SPEAKER_01Massively. Bro, I'm so glad you asked this question. And that's what I'm talking about, Cossi, the blind spot. Listen, one day I was I was uh counseling a young man when I was pastoring in our prayer room, and he says, Man, you know, I'm I'm in the word, I'm I'm praying, I'm going to church, I'm serving. He's like, but man, I feel so weak. I feel such a weakness in in my walk with the Lord. And I just looked at him, and without skipping a beat, I said, Man, do you masturbate? At first, you know, he got over the shock of this crazy large eyeballed Arab, like asking him that question, right? Right in your face. Yeah. And then he he looks to the side like that and he goes, he goes, Yeah. But do you think that has something to do with it? Bro, and that's what I'm talking about. It's like, you know, it's like I weigh 600 pounds. Do you think my gluttony has something to do with it? Like so, so there's this blind spot, absolutely. And it's not just pornography per se, but it's even men who justify that I don't look at porn, yeah, but they're walking around living in habitual chronic lust. Yeah, do we need porn even sometimes, right? We have our our brains, our mind is a war zone. Absolutely. So so I challenge men in this and I say, look, if someone came up to your wife, cocked their fist back and was about to pop her in the face, would you jump in front of her if you had time to do that, absorb the blow and then fight that guy off? If someone was aiming a gun at your kids and was about to pull the trigger and you had the opportunity to jump in front of them, take that bullet, and then if you lived, fight that attacker off, would you do it? Like, dumb question. Yep. Give me your man card if you say no, what guy's gonna say no, right? And yet, men aren't willing to do that to protect their wife and kids from pornography. And what's the reality is is that they're the ones pulling their fists back about to pop their wife. They're the ones aiming the gun at their kids, about to pull the trigger. And there needs to be a wake-up call, man. God calls us first Timothy 4.8, right? Discipline yourself for godliness, exercise. That word is gumnos. It's like stripping yourself naked to get to a place where you fight without any of the hindrances that Hebrews 12 talks about, the weights and the sins that ensnare us. And a lot of guys have this mindset of, I mean, I can't help it, bro. I can't help it. So I give a challenge. Elon Musk comes up to you and says, I'm gonna put up a hundred million dollars if you go six months without looking at porn. Hundred million dollars. Six months, you're gonna be monitored by cameras, no porn. Cussy, you and I know every single man. Every dude's like, got it. No question. They will do what they'll tie themselves up and sit in a room, whatever. They will do it. They'll do it. You know, if if you knew that your porn viewing was gonna be filmed and played in front of your church, your friends, your family, your parents, if let's say hypothetically, anytime you looked at porn, one of your body parts was gonna fall off. There goes your right ear, your left ear, goodbye nose. See you later. Right? You know, yeah, so it's not an issue of we can't, it's that we won't. And the reason why is we're not willing to repent. One of the most beautiful words in the entire world is the word repentance, because it's indicative of hope. It's indicative of hope that there can be change. I love the saying that says God doesn't forgive excuses, only sins. So when you call it what it is, you own it, you run to the Lord, you you lay your heart and life down, man, he can say, it's happened to countless men, it can happen to many more, but we have to get serious about it. Here's the other thing, you know, if men can just see what's happening to their family, to their wife, to their children, the ripple effects that aren't necessarily even seen immediately, but that are eroding, right? The foundation of those people you claim to love, if men can see what's happening to their inner man and how gaunt and emaciated and weak and malnourished that inner man is, it would change everything, right? You you've you've seen the uh the whole healthy lung and and smoker's lung pictures side by side, right? I've often said if men's lungs were hanging on the outside of their chest where they can see them instead of covered by these walls of flesh, you'd have a lot less smokers because you could see the results of what's happening. Sure, everyone's seen the before and after, but because it's hidden, you can't see it, you're still functioning through life. Yeah, you're puffing away. If men could see what's happening to those that they claim to love above all else, and what's happening to their inner man, it'd be a wake-up call. And that's what we need. We need men to give themselves a good kick in the pants and say, no, there's no excuse. God's grace is abundant. I can be free, but I can't mess around with this anymore. I've got to get serious with it and kill it. Amen.
SPEAKER_00I want to ask you about masturbation. Yeah. You say it's a sin. There's a lot of people that would say, no, it's not. I'm not having sex with a woman or a man. I'm not engaging in adultery. I'm not looking at pornography. There's even married men that might argue, I'm thinking about my wife, bro. So why is masturbation a sin?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's a good question. A lot of people say, Come on, man, show me, show me chapter and verse on masturbation. I'll say, show me chapter and verse where it says you don't go to a funeral dressed like a clown honking a horn. No. Uh, show me chapter and verse where, you know, uh it says that uh, you know, you don't do this, that, or the other. I mean, like people, people have this mindset, like, you know, that that it needs to say chapter and verse. Show me again, chapter and verse, where does it say don't dress up like a furry and have someone walk you around on a leash? Show me chapter and verse. Like, man, we have to understand the the tone and tenor of scripture and the application of scripture, right? And so uh it's clear that sexual intimacy is designed for marriage. We go back to Genesis 2, 24, and that you know, the man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. That there's a oneness in there. We go to 1 Corinthians 7, uh the first part of the chapter there, and it's clearly talking about the man not having authority over his body, the wife not having authority over her own body, but each belongs to the other. Sex has as at its core a selflessness for the sake of serving others. And so sex is designed by God within the confines of marriage for the purpose of unification, right? The two becoming one on every level. Uh, it's for procreation. Through that, God creates new image bearers and then for recreation. Read the book of Song of Solomon, and again, 1 Corinthians 7. It it all of those things are a part of sexual intimacy. And so to enter a state of simulation where now it's become a self-centered, self-absorbed, self-focused thing that is contrary to its design is completely wrong and simple.
SPEAKER_00Okay, hold on. I need recap because I like lists. No, you just said it is for unification, procreation, and recreation. That's right. I'm like, yes and amen. Then you said, and the world will take it and turn it into simulation. That's not what we're created for. So I say those three. The way you were saying them, I was like, man, this is good. You should alliterate that and put it in a book. You did. Uh unification, procreation, recreation, divided from that, why masturbation becomes an issue is it is simulation. Absolutely. Man, that's good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're simulating something that that is is only meant to be in a given context, right? And so, you know, it's it's crazy because again, when you when you start to reason with people and you say, okay, so you're saying that you're you're doing this because you need the release or you need whatever, right? Um, you know, is it okay then to have sex with a um uh an AI robot, which you understand that's a big thing right now.
SPEAKER_00Oh, bro, recently I did a little sermon kind of illustration and was telling people about sex bots.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And my sons were in the the service, and I didn't say call them call them sex bots, but I said, Have you heard about those guys who marry who are marrying robots in different Asian countries? And I just begin to unpack how, you know, it's fake. They think it's marriage, they think it's relationship, it's not. We treat God the same way. And I was kind of illustrating. But I remember my boys later on in the day, they're like, Dad, what's with the robots thing? I'm like, bro, guys, listen, there are men, they don't want to deal with the woman, her mouth, her issues, her hormones. They don't want to have all the problems, they don't want to deal with all the stuff. They just want to turn her switch on and off because then they can just put her in the closet and go play golf and do their thing. My boys are like, kind of laughing, but kind of like, Are you serious? I'm like, Yeah, imagine. Well, then I don't even have to, you know, deal with mom. And one of the older, one of my older kids was like, Yeah, because then he can do what he wants, and mom can't even say anything about it. He just turns the switch off and he can go play golf or do something else, and it becomes sort of a laugh. But in the back of my mind, I'm going, I have to prepare my sons for a world. It's insanity. Sex bots are a thing. Yeah, I think the lack of procreation will lead to a reduced human population. Yeah, and all the people that say, oh, it's conspiracy theory, you know, one world government and getting rid of children, and Satan's trying to attack the family and reduce the human population so they can control more. It is an assault on the family, on God's design, on sex and procreation. Yeah. But keep going.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so okay, so what's wrong with that? That's an inanimate object, just like again, man. I'm sorry we're getting graphic, but we gotta do what we gotta do. Understood. It's an inanimate object. So, in a sense, as your hand, you know, it's not alive, it's not an entity, right? So, what's what's wrong with that? You're thinking of your wife while you're with this robot that you take with you when you go out of town because you know you gotta have release. Bro, it's insanity. There's a lack of self-control. Absolutely, ultimately, that's a man's issue. And by the way, every, if you think about it, everything in life comes down to self-control. Boom. Everything, whether I worship the Lord or not, self-control. It's a superpower to have self-control. It's a spiritual element. Whether it's spirit, whether spirit. Yeah, whether I read the word or not, self-control, whether I pray or not, self-control, whether I punch you in the face or not, self-control, whether I indulge in pornography or not, self-control. Absolutely. And and that's a fruit of the spirit. So when you're walking in the flesh, you're gonna indulge in that. But all that aside, right, let's even consider the folly and the danger of violating what Christ told us in Matthew 5. If you look at a woman lust after, you're gonna commit adultery with her in your heart. So you're gonna tell me, first of all, you're gonna indulge in masturbation and not not deal with any lust. You're not gonna have any imagination, you're not gonna have any. I mean, first of all, that's ludicrous. And if it's ever been done, I mean, I don't know, 0.0001%. But aside from that, you're gonna even open the door for that to become a possibility in a space where it is the regular course of things, that's craziness. So, no, you that's the thing, man. We're always looking at how close we can get to the borderline of sin without crossing over rather than saying, how far out of the stadium can I get? Totally. Right? Like Piper talks about. Is it gonna help me run? Is it gonna help me glorify the Lord? We're we're like meddling with this stuff when we're called to walk in holiness and purity and and honor God. So, so yeah, masturbation is a sin, it's a simulation of something that is meant in one given specific context. Yeah, and that is marriage because it's a selfless act that's meant to serve and bless another.
SPEAKER_00So good. And another question for you. Chapter and verse, unpack this scripturally. Why is pornography a sin?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, I think it would fall in line again with Matthew uh 5, um 28, where Jesus made it clear that, you know, if you look with lust, you're you're guilty of adultery. And so that is what pornography is. That is the the infused heart of it. Again, pornography in keeping with sexual immorality really goes back to uh 1 Corinthians 6 18, where it says every sin that a man commits, he commits outside of the body. But he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. Wow. So here's here's what we have to understand is happening there, right? We as Christians have the oft-quoted mantra, sin is sin, right? Sin is sin in the sense, yes, that all sin is a violation of God's standard, his law, his nature, right? Because we know that all of God's commandments flow forth from his divine and eternal nature as a holy God. But not all sin is sin in terms of its egregiousness, its ramifications, its impact. So, for example, you might ask me to help you move house, right? And I may lie and say, sorry, Cossi, we're making some shawarma that day. So sorry about that. Now I may be lying, right? But there's a, and that's wrong, and that's a sin, and it's egregious, and it's inexcusable on every level. But that's a little different than if I go and murder your entire family and burn the house down with them. Yes. So what's being communicated in 1 Corinthians 6, 18 is that sexual sin is set on another level in terms of its impact, egregiousness, and ramifications. And why is that? Because Paul in there talks about how the body is not made for sexual morality and sexual morality for the body. He says the body is for the Lord. And he talks about how we're members of Christ, and then he ties that in with the fact that when we indulge in sexual sin, we're joining Christ with a harlot. And then he goes from there and he talks about how how, you know, that we've been bought with a price. Glorify God in your body and your spirit, which are the Lord's. And he talks about in there how we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. So sexual sin, man, has a special component to it. And you and I both know, you know, you look at Romans 1, it's part and parcel with reprobation. Yes. And so we need to recognize that and and understand that we're we're dealing with some serious things. And often when I when I talk to men, I try to remind them that, you know, in the book, I have a I have a section. I mean, it's broken down into four parts our enemies, the world, the flesh, the devil, their battle plan against us, and then what our counterattack needs to be. But then in the last section, it's called uh six C's and a nope. And I'll get to the nope later if we have time. But but in that part, I open it up with calling it the six C's to succeed. And I have six biblical principles that uh, you know, they're alliterated each with a C, but then each has an alliterated sentence that men are to memorize so that it helps them before they're in the battle, they condition their heart and mind to be trained like a soldier, so that when they're in the battle, they also have those resources to draw on. And the first one is creation. And this is where I try to get men to understand what's involved with the sexual sin that they're committing. Let's take pornography and lust as an example. Well, what faculties and features are you using when you indulge in pornography and lust? Well, first you have vision. You know, your eye has 137 million light sensitive cells. The focusing muscle moves about 100,000 times a day, right? Each eye has a built-in super sensitive light meter, immediate automatic focusing, wide angle lens, and full color instantaneous reproduction, right? Like, like what camera are you gonna compare the human eye to? In fact, the camera is patterned after the human.
SPEAKER_00Steve Jobs can't hold a candle to Apple can't hold a candle to what God creates.
SPEAKER_01Right? So, so man, you need to step back and go, whoa, okay, well, you have vision, but what's that tied to? Well, cognition. So your brain is taking those images and processing them. Your brain has about a hundred billion neurons or microscopic nerve cells. It's got more nerve lines than all the telephone lines in the whole world put together, right? Electrical signals from 200,000 living thermometer cells, a half million pressure sensing cells, three to four million pain sensing cells, right? Plus all the signals from your eyes, ears, nose, and taste buds are all routed to your brain. You've got imagination, you've got creativity, you've got recall, you've got memory. I mean, bro, what computer would you compare the human brain to? And then finally, you have coition. So vision, cognition, coition, which comes from the word coitus, which is the mechanism of sexual intimacy. When you when you examine what's involved in that, you've got uh attraction, you've got desire, you've got pleasure, you've got anatomical compatibility, you've got procreation. Procreation itself, you just study reproduction, man. It's like so the point in that is this these faculties and features that men are using to engage in lust with have God's fingerprints of design all over them. But we're we're we're we're taking them, and instead of using them as wonders through which to worship the Lord, we use them as weapons to wound God, ourselves, and others. So that alliterated sentence is wield wonders as well springs for worship, not weapons for wounding. Because what we're doing when we're just flippantly engaging in pornography, lust, sexual morality, is it's like taking the Mona Lisa and using it as a doormat. It's like taking a live grenade and casually playing catch with it. You're talking about things of indescribable beauty and worth and power, and the destruction that's gonna come from that is massive.
SPEAKER_00How do we find freedom from pornography and then also from the shame that's associated with it? I think a lot of men feel guilty. There's a lot of shame. It's the secret that they keep. Yeah. How do we find freedom?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, let me first address the shame issue. This is something that that I've become more and more passionate about because I think the the whole shame uh issue has been hijacked by the world. And and what do I mean by this? Christ is the remedy to shame, right? But at the same time, many, many, many people need to be ashamed. You know, in Jeremiah 6, Jeremiah 8, uh in both chapters, the same kind of passage is quoted, and God is speaking about the nation of Israel that was indulging in radical sin. And he says, Do they know how to be ashamed? It says, No, they do not know how to be ashamed at all. They do not remember how to blush. And what I mean by that, costy, is that there's this mantra of, you know, I don't want shame, don't want shame. If we are living in unrepentant sin, the greatest. The greatest thing we could be is ashamed and feel shame. We should. We should. But the question is, is what do we do with that? Because you can let that shame lead you to suicide like it did Judas. Or you can let that shame lead you to repentance like it did Peter, who denied his Lord and basically said, in essence, with his words, he never meant anything special to me when you develop it. So we do need to be ashamed if we're living in sin and we're violating God's design and we are defrauding, as First Thessalonians 4 talks about our brother or sister in Christ. Like this is serious. But then that needs to lead to repentance. And the and the key to that is Christ. Man, you think about what it says in Hebrews 4. We don't have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses. Tempted in all points as we are yet without sin. And then what? Therefore come boldly to the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. What did Jesus say of himself, right? He doesn't break a bruised reed, he doesn't quench a smoldering wick. He takes that bruised reed and mends it back to strength. He takes that smoldering wick with its little ember with smoke rising from it and he fans it back into a flame. The key is Christ. What's it say in 1 John 2? It says, These things were written so that you may not sin. But if anyone sins, we have what? An advocate, right, with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, who is what? The propitiation for our sins. So of course the word is given to us so that we don't sin. But if we do, which we will at times, the advocate, the one who comes alongside to help, the propitiation for our sins, who paid for our sins, past, present, and future, that knew our worst moment on the day that we felt his greatest pleasure when we got saved, that same love was applied to us when he knew of our worst sin ever. So Christ is a remedy, the gospel, the gospel. And here's one of the mistakes we make as Christians. We forget that the gospel is not just the instrument through which we're saved. The gospel is a treasure house of spiritual riches from which we live as God's people. And so we we often don't make use of it in the way that we should. And so it's Christ. You know, there was this uh verse in a song by a Christian artist. He was giving this sort of pilgrim's progress scene as he's running toward the kingdom, and all these sins are trying to trip them up. And he talks about how the porn monster is coming at him and it's trying to wrap its tentacles around him. And then he said, now one of the most powerful lines I've ever heard, he said, With my sword, I hacked it to pieces because I'm way more attracted to Jesus. Come on. I mean, bro, and that has to be it. We must become enamored with Christ. Yeah. He he must become our everything. We must fall madly and passionately in love with him. Because you can put every accountability software in place. You could have people holding you accountable, you could pursue spiritual disciplines, all of that is good and we should. But if if your heart hasn't become madly and passionately in love with Christ, where there's constant communion with him, that you don't allow anything to interrupt that communion, you're doomed. It's affection. Yeah. Affection drives that obedience. Yeah, to fall in love with him, to be in his presence, to seek after him, to recognize that his grace is your only hope. It's your only hope. But you must tap in and access it and walk in it.
SPEAKER_00If someone has used porn in their past, and so many people have in our generation, how do they expel the imagery that sometimes invades the mind? They're walking in grace, they're walking in freedom, they don't use pornography anymore, but an image flashes in their mind. No different perhaps than somebody who is sexually immoral with a real person or had a string of sexual relationships and now they're married to someone else and they're walking in the grace of God and purity. And then, you know, an image just floods into their mind. How do we overcome the, we'll call it the revisitation of fornication? Right.
SPEAKER_01I like that. Well, Romans 12, too, you know, don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Because when you think about it, that's what's happening when we're indulging in porn and sexual sin. We're being conformed to the world. That's the way of the world. We're we're really marching to the drumbeat of this wicked fallen world. In the book, I get into it, right? The influence of the world with its bully pulpit, with its mass media influence on every front, right? Everywhere you go. And so you've got the flesh who's also coming at you. You've got, you know, the that Satan who's one of our enemies. You talked about that in your sermon the other day. I was privileged to hear, man. So glad that you mentioned that, right? We don't wrestle against flesh and blood. He's our adversary. He prowls about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may have devour. So all of that, you know, it links in with our enemies and then, you know, overall the world, that that system that is opposed to God and his ways that feeds the flesh, we have to be, we have to be renewed, right, with with our minds by allowing them to be transformed, by turning from those things that we have fed our minds and our hearts. We need to starve the flesh and walk in the spirit. And what does it say in Galatians 5? I say, then walk in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Well, how do we walk in the spirit? Well, we engage in the things that the spirit of God is involved in. Well, what's the spirit of God involved in? Well, it tells us that we do not know how to praise we ought, but the spirit himself intercedes for us with groans too deep to utter. The spirit's involved in prayer. Scripture calls what? The Bible or the word of God, what? The sword of the spirit. The spirit's involved in the word. Jesus said, When the spirit comes upon you, you will be my witnesses. The spirit is involved in evangelism. And scripture talks about the fellowship of the spirit between believers. So when you engage in those things, you're rendered what? Walking in the spirit, being controlled and governed by the spirit. And as you begin to do that, it starves off the flesh. Now, those thoughts may still pop up at random, but as you walk in the spirit, you have access to what? Self-control. And you learn to say, so what? Right? As Spurgeon said, or maybe it was Luther, you can't keep a bird from flying over your head, but you can keep it from nesting in your hair.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_01And so you get to a place where you realize, you know what? That thought popped into my mind. Oh well. See, the Lord knows my heart. Now that's both dangerous and relieving, and that he knows our hearts that they're deceitful above all else, right? Desperately wicked. But at the same time, he knows if we truly want to indulge in that or not. There's a difference between letting go of the reins and just going with it and saying, Lord, I really don't want that. And so, so you just continue to walk in self-control, right? You give your heart and mind something to do. You go to scripture, you go to truth, and then you do the right thing again and again and again. And as we become more and more consistent in fleeing from sin and repenting of it when we stumble into it, then we'll become more and more consistent in avoiding it. So it's growth, it's being strengthened, it's it's removing, but then filling, right? Philippians 4.8. Uh you fill your mind, whatever, with all those things, pure, true, lovely, you know, all that. And uh you let your heart and mind be reshaped.
SPEAKER_00Well said. How does a person fight off same-sex attraction? We are in a culture and in the church especially, where people have gotten more and more honest about the grace of God. They've changed, they maybe they lived a homosexual lifestyle. So much of that was has been more, I would call it, uh, accepted, embraced, normalized in today's world. You said desensitized at one point. So people come out of that, they get saved, and yet they wrestle with SSA, same-sex attraction. Yeah. How do we help people fight against that? Or specifically for somebody watching or listening, how does someone who's same-sex attracted fight against that? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, Casia, I'm glad you you bring that up. And, you know, I want to mention something that I think can definitely veer into the arena of semantics, but at the same time, I think our words are important and sometimes they subconsciously shape us in ways that we're not even aware of. I have a good friend who who used to live the homosexual lifestyle, and he he takes issue with the term same-sex attracted. He he says he he prefers that it be called same-sex tempted. Because when we use the word attracted, it almost legitimizes it in a way.
SPEAKER_00I really like that. Yeah. I've not actually heard that alternate.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and I know the same thing is meant typically when people say that, but but at the same time, it's it it almost gives it a legitimization. I'm just same-sex attention.
SPEAKER_00It totally does because it may it makes it feel like it's active, like I am just attracted to men or you're a woman. I'm just attracted to women. Like that's just the way to versus tempted. Yeah, it makes it more sinister.
SPEAKER_01Right. Because we we associate temptation with sin. Yes. And so we have to say, well, that is a sin. I like it. And we have to remember, too, I think, for those that are struggling with that, and this is an again, another one of those deceptions because of the world's bully pulpit, that as 1 Corinthians 6 says, and such were some of you. Look, I don't buy into the AA philosophy of, you know, I'm Bob. I I haven't had a drop of alcohol in 40 years. I'm an alcoholic. I'm an alcoholic, yeah. No, man. Christ renews us, restores us. That once was you, it's no longer you. Yeah. So, so what would I say to the to the guy who says I'm same-sex tempted? I would say the same thing that I would say that a guy who says, Man, I'm being tempted to commit adultery. I'm being tempted to, you know, engage in fornication. Yeah. I would say, hey, uh resist that temptation and keep going, bro. Like, like don't like don't make it. You don't overcomplicate it, don't label yourself. Don't walk around with this crazy stigma. I'm, you know, I'm the same-sex attracted dude. No. Any, here's the thing I learned long ago, Cosely. Any temptation at any moment can enter my head. I understand my sinful, wicked nature. And, you know, we know what James tells us about sin being conceived, it brings forth sin. Each one's carried away enticed by his own lust, for sure. But at the same time, there is a real tempter, there's a real enemy, there's real temptations. Look, the fish is not to blame for the hook and the bait that come in front of it as it's swimming around the ocean. But it has a choice to make, take it or not. Don't pump this up. Don't hype it up. Don't make it, oh, I'm the I'm a sinner saved by grace.
unknownWhoa.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Perversion can take on any form at any time. Yeah. Whatever. Talk to the hand, the face don't want to hear it. Lord help me and keep going. He loves you, he knows your heart, he knows your desire, not want to be indulged in that. And keep moving forward. Marry a woman, have kids. I'm telling you, I have friends who were radically entrenched in the homosexual lifestyle. It's like, whatever, man. That was that doesn't define me. Yeah. Married, I have kids, I love the Lord, and we press on in life.
SPEAKER_00How do we pursue purity in a highly sexualized culture? And with that, I'd love you to hybrid how do we as parents protect our homes from the attacks? But first, you know, how do you pursue purity? And and be specific. You're not getting legalistic. Remember, legalist legalism is doing things to because you think it's going to save you. But what are some of the portals the enemy uses to get the bait in front of us?
SPEAKER_01And how do we go on offense? Dude, I could do this with you all day, man. I can't. I mean, I know this is a little interjection, but I'm so loving this right now because this is a stuff that I want to preach from the mountaintops. You know, that it just doesn't happen. Like, look, we've talked about masturbation. Like, that's the M-word, bro. Like, no one goes. You've got to talk about it. We've talked about, you know, all this crazy stuff and sexual pornography. No, it has to be talked about because it's happening.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So let me put this out to you in light of what you just asked. Okay. I want you to think, Costi, what happens when someone talks about these great athletes, like, for example, the late Kobe Bryant? Man, the Mamba mentality. Yeah. That guy, he was in the gym at 6 a.m. before his whole team, after they left, he's in there shooting again. Right? Playoffs are over. He's in the gym that night practicing for next season. Whoa, right? Steph Curry, he's getting in there. He's doing all these dribble. A thousand shots made before a game, not shot made before he plays a game, right? Oh man, we look at these business guys. Oh, this guy, look at Elon Musk. He sleeps on his couch in his office, sleeps on the ground. He's like, oh, he lives in a little power. Right? This college student, man, he's just sacrificing relationships and extracurricular activities and leisure. And oh man, he's a go-getter. This business man, he's but then when you say, oh man, that guy, man, he doesn't, he doesn't go to the movies. That guy, he, he just, he, you know, he has a flip phone. That guy, he's he's going hard after God to pursue purity by by not listening to certain music that'll that'll get him stirred up.
SPEAKER_02Oh, brother, slow down. Calm down, relax. Right?
SPEAKER_01Be free. Be free, brother. Oh, liberty. I mean, and I love the way that you frame that, right? Like, of course, we don't impose our convictions on others and and issues that are gray or whatever, but each man knows himself, each man knows what triggers him, each man knows what causes him to stumble. What's wrong with being on fire for the Lord? What's wrong with saying, I'm gonna cut off the hand, I'm gonna pluck out the eye? I care more about eternity, man. We're a breath away, we're a heartbeat away. Look at what just happened to Charlie Kirk. Look at what happened to our brother Vodi. We're just talking about that. Eternity is coming. 2 Corinthians 5. I'm gonna stand before the judgment seat of Christ and give account for my life. So, what do I say? I say, man, cut off whatever must be cut off that you know triggers you and stumbles you. Let's go. And you know what? While you do it, laugh with joy. Count it as loss, count it as rubbish for the sake of Christ.
SPEAKER_00Man, so good. How should we navigate the temptation or the pressure from culture to introduce pornography into our marriage with the expressed intent of spicing things up?
SPEAKER_01Man, uh, that is and you know, again, it's another one of those things that we don't talk about, but you know it's a reality. Yeah, short answer, it's hot garbage, but you gotta unpack that. There's couples looking at porn together, no question about it. And that's madness. How do you justify watching other people engage in fornication as believers and justifying that as this is good for our marriage? Yep. And like you're creating, again, these unrealistic expectations and you're indulging in total wickedness. You are contributing to the sex slave trade. You're contributing to the destruction of these young souls that are all hyped up on drugs just to get through these crazy scenes. I mean, I I watched a guy who was in the in the porn industry who became a believer and he was giving his testimony. He was talking about the utter torment of that world. You know, people see this happening on the screen thinking, oh, how lovely and wonderful. They don't understand like the stuff that's going on, the stuff they're making them do, the the inability to perform and then having to do all this crazy stuff. Bro, it is it is insanity. So, Christian couple, you want to put your hand to that? You want to defile the marriage bed with lusting and then simulating what you're seeing? Like, I mean, it's just one of those things that it goes without question. But here's what I I need to address because this is where the justification comes in. Where couples, where families are opening the doorway to pornography because they are indiscriminately watching movies that for the most part could be porn, soft porn, right? You're watching these crazy sex scenes. I mean, the the the stuff that's on TV now that I hear about that these series that are on for streaming now, insanity, bro. And so, what does that do for your kids as you sit there and you indiscriminately watch sex scenes and blasphemy and and rampant immorality? Dude, it's desensitizing, it's setting them up for oh, well, that's no big deal. I saw this. That's one step further, and then before you know it, they're headlong into it. Yeah, and they're gone. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So how can churches do a better job addressing pornography, sexual immorality, and then the shame and the stigma surrounding it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So uh I I've been speaking at churches, and there have been a few. In fact, I'm about to speak at a church, you know, in San Jose, 3,000 people. And I asked the pastor, I said, Man, you've invited me to speak. I've spoken before. Can I speak on sexual sin? And he said, Absolutely. Oh, good. And I can't tell you how much joy that brought me. I just spoke at another really, really big church, same thing, Sunday morning. And man, people come up like with tears in their eyes. Thank you for talking about this. Because again, it's not beat down, it's man, there's hope. Yeah, there's hope. And so what churches need to do is is deal with the elephant in the room. Shepherd your people. Don't pretend like this is not an issue or that this is a minor issue. Take it for the serious issue that it is. Because the thing is, is look, man, if Satan can convince us that our sexual sin is not as serious as it is, he'll convince us to either not deal with it or to appropriate an improper remedy. If I can convince you that your brain cancer is just a migraine headache, I'll convince you to take some extra strength tylenol and destroy you. If I can convince you your intestinal cancer is just a bad stomachache, I'll convince you to take some peptobismol and destroy you. Exactly the enemy strategy. We have to identify it, call it what it is, deal with it, and again give our people hope and guidance. You know, one pastor took a hundred men in his church through my book. He wrote his own study guide. And and the guys are that you know that I knew, I'd spoken at their men's event and taught on purity. But guys are coming up to me and telling me, man, how so grateful they are that they did that. That's a shepherd. Yes. Taking his men, this is a big church, a hundred men through the book, wrote his own study guide and and said, guys, we need to deal with this. So shepherds need to be shepherds. That's love. Yeah, that's love. Deal with it. Your men will be grateful, their wives will be grateful, their children will be grateful, generations to come will be grateful. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Last question for you. It's a big one. How do we shepherd our children when they unintentionally end up exposed to pornography? And we've got to clean that up, man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What do we do? Okay. Well, let me say, first of all, we do something before we even get there. That's the key. Because I know there are people listening, their kids are teenagers, they're in it. Others are still young. Some have babies. Yeah. Others don't have kids, but they're heading there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, talk to us.
SPEAKER_01So, what happened with us, you know, when Rachel and I were going to have the talk with our kids, right? Uh, I said to her, honey, look, um, this is this is the like typical stereotypical scenario. Parents are gonna have the talk. Oh man, they're getting shifty eyed, they're sweating, they're doing this thing. The kids are like, I don't ever want to do that with like, what's that horrible thing you're you're about to tell me about, right? So I said to her, look, you know, as as the saying goes, kids' brains are like warehouses full of empty shelves. Whoever gets there first and stalks those shelves is gonna be make it harder for someone else to come unstock and restock. Wow. So the principle is we want to beat the world to it. So I said to her, you know, look, this is gonna be the first, our kids know zero zilt, nothing. They've never heard of it, right? Nothing about sexual immorality, nothing about sex, period. So I said, I want to present this to them in a way that honors the beauty of sex. Because, bro, sex was not man's idea. Some dude didn't wake up on a Tuesday morning, huh? You know what? That'd be a good idea to try. This is designed by God through it. He creates new image bearers. It's beautiful, it's wonderful. But you know, Satan has twisted it, our flesh has tainted it, the world has perverted it. But no, so we sat down that night with them. Before we did, we said, kids, mom and I have something amazing to tell you about tonight. Something beautiful, something wonderful. We can't wait, you know. And they're like, ha, you know, and so so you know, we sat down, that's what we did. Hey guys, listen to what God made. You know, at first they're like, oh, and then they're like, oh, you know, so it's awesome. And man, it was awesome. So you begin there, and then from that, you open the door to always freely talk about sex. Kids, you can always any questions you have, let us know. Don't make the talk like one and done. Like this is the this opens the door, it's the catalyst, it sets the stage. Now let's always talk about it. Any question, and that's honestly how it was in our home. Our kids would just, hey, what about this? What about that? You know, and um, you know, the the girls maybe more than the boys, but but you know, there were times in the right context they'd come up with questions. Yeah. And uh, and it was awesome. And so, and so you begin from there to to then disciple their hearts. Like, this is how you can walk in purity, this is what honors God, this is why, you know, it's beautiful for intimacy in marriage, you know. And man, look, I praise God, and you could do all that you, all that you could have done, and your kids might choose a different direction and they might engage in in immorality. They might not even, right? We don't save our kids. Salvation is of the Lord.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But what we're called, right, to have that, those shaping influences, and then there's that godward orientation like uh Ted Tripp talks about in shepherding a child's heart. But but but it's key, you know, and I'm I'm happy to say our daughter got married about seven years ago, and her and her her husband, they never they didn't kiss until they stood at the altar. They never kissed anyone and they never kissed each other until they stood at that altar. Beautiful. You know, our our son just got married, same thing, didn't kiss till the altar. Our other son just got engaged, they've been together for a year and a half or more, and they're getting married in eight months. Decided to wait until they're married. But they've owned it. Yeah. Because we didn't just tell them, hey, hey, do this. We've uh we've exposited the scripture, you know, so that it it's taught their hearts. This is what God says, and we've made purity attractive to them as we've tied it with the Lord, his character, eternity. And so you do that, and then you set an example by what you watch, by what you listen to, and then by what you allow them to. Because look, you have them as these entrusted uh children of God into your care and you're stewards over them. And so you can't be that parent that just wants to be cool and buddies with your kids. They will resent that down the line. Wow. They'll resent it because they will become adults and know better than oh, my parents were cool because they let me no, say no. Hey, we're going to our friend's house tonight, they're gonna watch this movie. Hey, bud, look, you can either not go or when they're gonna play the movie, I'll come pick you up. We don't wanna, you know, look, we don't want to impose on people, their parents, their kids, but we're not gonna do it. In our home, we're gonna use something like ClearPlay or Vid Angel. We're gonna watch a movie that we think has a redemptive value because even some movies you know, they don't have stuff in them, but they don't have a redemptive value. So it's got a redemptive value, and we can use something to filter out that stuff, then we'll do it. And it just gives your kids an example and uh it sets them up to walk in a life of purity.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much. I I could probably just make you long form for another two or three hours on this, but we'll do it again. Yeah, can I share one more thing? Please do if I can. Just a quick thing.
SPEAKER_01Because I said I would mention the nope at the end of the day. Yes, you did. Season the nope. Yeah. So so uh one day I was counseling this young man, and you know, he had been having some struggles, and I said, bro, how you doing with pornography? And he goes, You know what? I'm actually doing pretty good. He was, you know, pretty kind of cheery about it. And I go, that's awesome. I said, How are you doing with lust though? Because like I said before, right? I mean, we can justify it by thinking, oh, I don't look at porn, but we're walking around lusting all day. And I said, You know, women are walking by when you're you know alone with your thoughts. And so he kind of hung his head in discouragement. He goes, Ah man, I'm not, I'm not doing too good. And I just felt this um this zeal for purity and righteousness rise up in my heart. Because I'm thinking, man, so many men are destroyed by this. Again, as a man who's who's constantly tempted, right? Temptation is not sin. I'm always tempted, constantly, especially as someone in ministry leadership, right? So I understand the pull and the struggle. And I said, uh, I said, man, I just said, you know what? I said, bro, there comes a time when we have to say, enough is enough. I'm done with this. Forget it, no more. I said, we need to, we need to just say nope. This is over. I said, in fact, we need to say that word nope out loud. Because, you know, when you do that, it kind of commits you. You're like, you have like now nope. Yeah, self-accountability. So, you know, I really felt it resonated with him. I know it resonated in my own heart. So anyway, the next day, um, I leave the house, I'm going to the office, I'm driving through my neighborhood, and all of a sudden, these two girls wearing barely anything come jogging by my car. And instinctively, I just caught myself going, nope, out loud. So good. I thought, man, I thought, you know what? I thought I wish, I wish there was some kind of a cross stick that would tie in with that word that would be helpful to me and other men. Oh, nice. And as soon as I thought it, immediately it popped into my mind, nope, N-O-P-E, not one peak even. Oh, I like that. Not one peak even. And the key is you say it out loud. And if you can't out loud, say it under your breath. Just get it out of your mouth. This isn't like name it, claim it, kind of hard the word, but but it's like it commits you, totally, you know? And so, man, I I was so I started sharing that with men. They're like, dude, that's been helping me. You know, nope, nope, I'm noping everywhere, you know. And and and so then, but then I thought, why nope? Why not one peak even? What fuels that, or what should fuel that? And then I thought to myself, you know what should fuel that is love. Not one peak even because of my main loves in life. And then I envisioned what Jesus said, you know, if anyone puts his hand to the plow and looks back, he's not fit for the kingdom. That's really what we're doing. I mean, God has called us forward for the glory of his name and kingdom, and we're looking back like Lot's wife at the world and it's it's filled, right? And so I thought, you know, and so I envisioned myself now. Every time, every time I'm tempted, like my hand is reaching out to take a hold of the handle of the plow. And each one of my fingers, as it wraps around the handles, represents one of my loves. So nope, not one peak even. Why? Because first I love my Lord, the one who paid the highest price ever paid for anything purchased to redeem me. I don't want to dishonor such an amazing savior. Next, I love my lady, the one that I vowed before heaven and earth to be faithful to, my soul companion, the mother of my children. I don't want to wound her and hurt her. Next, I love my lineage, my children, my grandchildren, all those that are to come. Next, I love his lambs, God's children that I'm called to be an example to, whose feet I'm called to wash through the service of my life. I don't want to destroy them. And last, I love the lost. Yes, those that don't know Christ, to whom I'm called to be an ambassador. So because I love my Lord, because I love my lady, because I love my lineage, because I love little slams, because I love the lost, nope, not one peak even, not now, not ever, for the glory of God.
SPEAKER_00Bro, that's so good. I thought it won more leads to that, all leads to legacy. A man who leaves a legacy, faithfulness, yeah, spiritually, physically, emotionally, all of it. Absolutely. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for teaching the way you have, thank you for writing the book and getting after it. And I want to have you back at some point. Um, it'd be awesome to expand. We got to expand on that with talking to our kids about sex. I know so many parents with questions on this, and then we could have gone down so many different rabbit trails. So we'll do it again. Love you, bro. Grateful for you. Thank you. This has been a joy. I hope that conversation was a blessing to you. I know for me personally, talking with Easy just stirred my heart in so many ways. And it gives you a real wonderful opportunity to just look under the hood with your purity, with the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the boastful pride of life, and then strategies for waging war against the enemy's attacks or temptations and lures. Such an important issue. I think we don't talk about it in the church enough. And I'm hopeful that this episode will trigger some really deep discipleship conversations or for you, for me, for all of us, heart assessment as we ask the Lord, make us pure. Will you make me more pure and more holy and more vigilant in these areas? Thanks as always for listening. Thanks for watching. Thanks for sharing for the gospel's content and helping other people get sound doctrine. We love getting to do this with you. And so I just want to say a special thank you to our gospel patron community. If you'd love to join that community and give monthly or a one-time gift to help us close out the year with strength and hit our fundraising goal, you can go to forthegospel.org, click give, and all of the information is there. We're grateful for your trust as we seek to store the resources that God is blessing this ministry with. I'll be back on Monday with another episode of Keep on Living for the Gospel.