Welcome to the For the Gospel podcast. My name is Cosby Hinn. I have the pleasure of being your host today. For the Gospel is all about providing sound doctrine for everyday people. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe or follow on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcast. And don't forget we're on social media with Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and more. And if this podcast has been a blessing to you, be sure to rate it and leave a review. That helps us get more search engine visibility. Because as it stands right now, most of the prosperity preachers and crazy people are making it to the top of the rankings. And if you review our podcast, it helps us climb the ranks so Sound Doctrine can get where it is needed most. Today I have the great privilege of interviewing two incredible people, one of whom is the man who discipled me and is still a mentor in my life and is affectionately known in our house, still very formally, as Pastor Tony, and his wife Brie, who my wife loves so dearly that even before this recording, my instructions from my bride were tell Brie I love her and I miss her so much. Tony Bree, welcome to the For the Gospel podcast.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for having us.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, brother, it is good to hear your voice, your deep baritone voice. And um, we miss it and we love you, we're proud of you, and it's fun to watch God use you in mighty ways.
SPEAKER_02Oh, thankful for you guys. Well, I am excited to extract from you on a recording today much of the wisdom that we were privy to, and so many other couples are privy to at Mission Bible Church, where uh Pastor Tony, you've been pastoring for now about a decade, and I got the joy of being with you for close to seven years. Um we're gonna talk about deepening date night intimacy, deepening marital intimacy. And right away when we hear that term, people think sex, they think romantic comedies, they think, you know, we're all gonna look amazing and take our little beach bodies together off into the sunset, and it's all gonna be, you know, roses, kisses, and heart emojis. Um, I want to kind of get into real intimacy with you guys today and talk about some of the things you've learned and hard lessons along the way. Would you start by flipping over the view of intimacy that so many Christians have today from sort of the Hollywood idea of it all?
SPEAKER_03Sure, I'd be happy to. First, I want to know who, which one of us pastors has the beach body? Is that you or is that me? Is that Justin there?
SPEAKER_01You guys, you guys are in Orange County, so I'm just going with the, you know, whatever you think in your mind, you know?
SPEAKER_03Sure. Paul Washer would be the only one I know. But he's no, I I think the yeah, for us, the backstory, you know, a little bit was we we were um you know, we were in a season in our early life, probably like most people, where when you're early married, I mean it's you hit a diaper and drool type time where basically you've got you know a couple kids that are in diapers, and you know, father, husband is out in his career. For me, it was ministry. And Bree was um she was at home, and so she was dealing with all that. And then I remember quite a few times where we would you know come home and really not talk to each other much, and like two ships passing in the night. It was kind of hand off a kid, get him into you know the bathtub, and then as quick as you can jump into bed, wake up the next morning, and it all starts again. Um, and it was it was interesting. We had one night where we're sitting on uh, I think it was in the bathroom, and we're having one of our discussions, we'll call it in quote. Um, not a fight. Christians don't have fights, they they have discussions, right? Justin. And um yeah, it was it was interesting because we were at a point where we had nowhere else to go in our conversation. I think we both looked at each other and just agreed, you know, hey, I I love you, um, but I don't know if I like you right now. And so we we we both kind of admitted that. Um, and it was around that time that we had met a couple. I'm giving you the long backstory on this, so it sets up some of the intimacy stuff. Yeah, I want to give context to my beach bot. Um, it was uh, you know, the c the context was that struggle. And then there was a couple who was a little further along in the faith than us, um, who we were talking to, and just kind of happenstance they mentioned that their date nights were actually they called family business meeting. And so driving away from that, we didn't think much of it. We thought that's kind of odd, honestly. You know, who has a family business meeting on date night? Um, but over the course of the next few months, the Lord, you know, from his word, was you know showing us some things. And one of those, like you mentioned, is that you know, intimacy, the way we viewed it, was really the world's view of intimacy. It was highly sexualized, it was physical, it was romance. The idea was, hey, let's kind of say some nice things to one another, have dinner, watch a rom-com, and then you know, if things work out, you know, the lights fade off into the, you know, the lights fade and it all works out. And in studying Genesis, we began to realize that when when Adam and Eve first met, you know, Adam didn't immediately lure Eve into the bedroom. You know, it's kind of like here you have this amazing moment, and you know, God creates these two people who are naked and unashamed. But the first thing we see in Genesis isn't this luring into romance, it's actually Adam writing Earth's first love poem. And there's this mighty, mighty moment where he says, you know, you're flesh of my flesh and bone of my bones, and he's he's actually referring to, you know, Isha and Isha, the depth of a spiritual, mental, emotional, and then a therefore physical bond, which is so much deeper than you know the way that the modern secular world views it. And so that for us was kind of a game changer to realize, not to over-theologize here, you know, but kind of realize, hey, listen, when we're together on date night, it's not primarily to get to the end goal of physical intimacy, it's to establish the primary goals of spiritual integrity and correct honor in a marriage and godliness in a marriage and setting goals together in a marriage. And so, you know, that's kind of a little bit of the flyover version of the story about how God kind of opened up our eyes to some issues.
SPEAKER_02Incredible. Bree, as a as a woman and a wife, your perspective were did you find that that enhanced your love and your uh feeling of being swept off your feet more than sort of the the worldly being wind and dined into some you know, whatever worldly end, or even when we're Christians and we're married, you know, what what is right and good in God's eyes as a couple, you know, loves one another and and is intimate. But did you feel like you Tony led you into a greater level of romance? What was that like as a woman?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, when it was first brought up, I have to be honest, I thought to myself, I really hope this does not keep happening because it did not seem romantic at all. But truth be told, after the first time that we had our date and we did our first management meeting, I was so blessed because I didn't realize subconsciously how much these things that were just, you know, floating around in my mind, putting them out all on the table, allowed us to have a deeper intimacy that I didn't realize we could have in those moments.
SPEAKER_02I love that. You guys have said business meeting, management meeting, and I'm probably imagining listeners right now are going, what kind of infomercial is this? What are they selling right now? So I want you to take us there. I wanna, I want to see this proven. And I'm I spoiler alert, I know what they're gonna say, and it's just gonna blow your minds if you're listening to this. Can you take us into the starting point? Like what you're at like a restaurant, let's say, and like the salad comes, and like do you you pull out your your whatever little day planners, like two C CEO and COO. Like, give me take us into what you do.
SPEAKER_03This is an infomercial for real real date night, yeah. God's way, right? And there's more. Um exactly. I mean, and and and so it took a couple of years, but we began trying it out. And and we stumbled and fell and tripped up quite a few times. But basically, you know, after a few years, we were able to boil it down to three major areas, which we call the three C's. You know, the idea of we want to discuss our cash, we want to discuss our calendar, and we want to discuss our convictions. And so that's kind of the overview where we ended up settling. And yeah, to be honest, there are some um very, very uh what most would consider awkward moments when you're on a date at Outback, and you know, the uh your date night consists of pulling out an Excel spreadsheet and talking about your Dave Ramsey envelopes, and you know, but that's the point, right? It takes you into deeper conversations, deeper areas of honesty between each other than the typical stuff.
SPEAKER_02So all right. So the first one, so cash calendar convictions, um, and you guys go back and forth. So I'll Brie, I'm gonna target you on this one. When when we're talking cash, what's sort of the lead-in in that conversation? Do you start it? Does Tony start it? And what's the goal when you're on a date night and you're about to talk about cash and somehow that's gonna make us we're all gonna love our spouses more and feel more loved?
SPEAKER_00I'm the math nerd, so I always end up bringing it up first. All right. Um, and so I just take, I literally, exactly what you said, take out my iPad, my Excel spreadsheet, and I go over just our weekly finances. So um a lot of what we base off of now is Dave Ramsey's um financial peace university planning, but um, the envelope system. So he goes into, you know, there's those envelopes that always bust your budget at the end of the month, whether it be, you know, restaurants, groceries, gas, that whole bit. And so we'll go over those just so that we have a weekly tab on where things are at. And more than I mean, most of the time we are always catching ourselves knowing, okay, we can't do this, you know, um, at the end of the month, and that catches us there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, she's you know, it's kind of a role, a skill set, gifting thing too, depending on in which spouse is better in different areas. But that's really our goal. Our goal is to finish a month kind of like business with a PL and be able to look at the overview of where we're at. And and the heart of it, for all those who are going, what a boring date night, how unromantic. The heart of it is, you know, Jesus was clear on the money issue, right? That where your treasure is, your heart will be also. And we need to remember that if Jesus is talking about our our money being an indicator of what's going on inside, well, that means it has huge impact for how the marriage is being handled, right? So it shows us what we care about, it shows us uh really if we're being disciplined with our spending, it shows us if we're prioritizing Christ, it shows us if we're if we're honest with one another. You know, there was a period of time where we're sitting there in our little date night and realizing, you know, gosh, we got to have some moments of confession. Um, because you know, I'm out you know, spending on Starbucks we haven't agreed to, and then she had a few, you can share if you want, but she had a few expenditures that she wanted to share. Um, she's like target, target, yeah. Yeah. And it's little things, right? Sometimes it's big, you know, depending on the subjective, but sometimes it's even small stuff. You go to a grocery store if you're a wife and you have a budget of however many hundred dollars for the family, and then you add a little extra to put a little sweater or a shirt or jeans in there, just that alone says I'm gonna do something that that I and my husband have not agreed to. And that slowly begins to break down trust. And at the core of the heart, it's actually deception. And so that's why Jesus was so clear that we need to look at finances to make sure our hearts are aligned.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And I think it makes me think twice too. Sorry. No, go it makes me think twice before going to Target, you know, the third time that month, and knowing that I'm gonna be um coming to hubby and telling him all the details.
SPEAKER_02Incredible. So I I'm gonna keep pushing back because what you guys are teaching and helping is so wonderful, and I I know and you know as well, what people start thinking. But speak to the person right now who's thinking to themselves what a what a tight approach, and and how that's gonna make me feel scared and not more loved. And you know, speak to the person that hasn't yet come to understand the sort of the little foxes in the field, so to speak, or the the erosion on a marriage little by little, when at the core of the issue, we're not being honest with each other about the way we spend money.
SPEAKER_03Well, I think for the person, do you want to go first or something? I think one of the things we have to remember when we go, oh, that's tight, is that actually what's tight is when you're in debt and then the collections people show up. Amen. And what's tight, what's tight is when you are frustrated and at each other's throat because you can't provide you know enough food on the kitchen table or don't have a place, a roof over your head. So that's when things get tight. And what happens a lot of times we don't have a game plan is we are just two people on each side of the tennis court hitting the ball back and forth at each other as if we're enemies. Wow. And having a game plan for finances allows you to walk to the other side of the court and become a doubles team where you're playing against the enemy of indebtedness. So I think that that's the kind of thing we have to think about. Truly being tight is when we're not planning well.
SPEAKER_02Do you guys ever think that this is rooted in our own inclination to rebellion? That we just hate authority. A husband doesn't want to have to answer, hey, I'm the head of the home here, I'm doing this. Or a wife says, Come on, I've been with the kids and doing this. Like, talk to me about authority issues that go on in our heart.
SPEAKER_00I think 100% for me, one uh area that rose up in my heart when this first was discussed that what we were gonna do was, well, I should have a little bit of freedom on how I spend the day. I'm home with all the kids, you know, and this pea party can justify my actions. And so having that accountability was huge for me.
SPEAKER_03Um I'm perfect and have a beach bod, so I don't I don't really uh we're never gonna live issues. Never gonna live that down. Yeah, I I think you you you're you're hitting it on the head with accountability. Um, you know, it it it actually um it forces us not only to get honest with one another, but with our primary covenant, which is us and the Lord. Uh our stewardship, Matthew 25, of our finances is very important to the Lord, to the point that he said that one day you know we'll be judged and they'll be weeping and gnashing of teeth based on what we do with our income. Wow. So to pretend that our income doesn't matter in this schematic of eternal welfare is is not only for a husband, you know, bad marital practice, it it's bad spiritual um character in general.
SPEAKER_02Wonderful. On that note, before we jump to the next C, somebody listening, maybe they're feeling super convicted or they're already having to hit pause because this is heavy stuff for them, and they're going, uh-oh. What is a resource you would recommend right now, sort of the middle of the show for stewardship that has blessed you guys when it comes to uh taking care of our treasures on Earth?
SPEAKER_03Well, Dave Ramsey was was helpful for us on a practical level. Uh I think the treasure principle by Randy Alcorn is helpful to get a kind of a big picture perspective on on what this should look like.
SPEAKER_01Good.
SPEAKER_03And how really the the greatest investment you know that we we can put in is eternal, and how do we invest in in church and people? I think that's helpful.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. I love that. Yeah, if you're listening and you need books like that, just check on our Instagram or in the show notes, they'll be there. Uh this is not crazy and it's not novel. What they're saying right now is actually what you should be being taught at your church. It's what your pastors should be modeling, and it's what we should be living. And so I know there's a lot of people that are newer to this sort of topic, and so this is why we do this. It it's hard and it might hurt, but it's gonna help. And so dig in. Second C. Here we go. Um, I started with Bree on the last one. Tony, I'm coming for you. Calendar, man. Talk to me about time because I learned this a little bit on the staff when I was pastoring with you. You brought some guy in and he was telling us what to do with our time and telling us to use calendars. And I'm like, get out of here. This is ministry, man. It's just flow and go. Bring it. Tell me about calendars. How do you manage time?
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, on our date, we'll typically get over the money stuff, and then we'll start talking about our calendar. And again, my organized wife will whip out our shared Google calendar. In the old days, it was hard, by the way, because being on the same page with calendar, you had to have like a magnetic board on your refrigerator and stuff, you know, because we're we're old people. Yeah. But all that's a lot easier now. And so, yeah, we'll pull that out and begin talking about it. Look at the the week. Um, you know, Paul was really clear on the redemption of time, Ephesians 5, 16. Uh, the biggest kind of reality and wake-up call for us was that expectations breed frustrations. Uh that's kind of a motto that we we used early on because we all know. I mean, what what couple hasn't been nailed when you thought, hey, you're picking up the kids, and then the other one thought, well, you were, and you know, one person thought it was the romantic evening, you were gonna have together a little interlude, and the other one thought, well, no, I'm tired, I got an early day tomorrow. Expectations breed frustrations, and so you know, we'll sit there and talk through everything and make sure we're aligned on children's pickup, um kind of a weekly game plan, uh, what our our next date night will be. Uh, even maybe if it's a little bit of TMI romance, you know, use an emoji or sometimes a little note in the calendar so everyone's clear on what's coming and when it's coming. Um but yeah, we'll we'll make sure we go over the week and then really prioritize our next get together. I know for her, empathy, um, it helps with empathy. So, to be honest, you know, as husbands, we go out and we fight and we're busy and we're doing our thing. Uh, we come home a little late for dinner. I know early on that that helped. I didn't get as much of a cold shoulder because she understood what was going on in my life.
SPEAKER_00When we first got married, I felt like he needed to tell me his whole day and for us to feel connected, and I needed to know every detail. And sharing our calendar actually took a lot of that stress off. Um, I knew how to pray for him during the day. I knew how to support him. Um, if he needed a coffee drop-off or cookies or something like that when he got home, um, extra patience if he was gonna be home late that evening and just to feel connected throughout the day uh to know how to support one another was huge.
SPEAKER_03What our needs were. And Costia, I don't know how graphic or honest or real raw we are allowed to be on on FTG. Um and so I'll say this in like kind of simplistic terms. I don't want to be too crude, but you know, the reality is when we get married, we become one in every facet. And we need to remember that in 1 Corinthians 7, our bodies are not our own. So when we joke about TMI or date night and romance, we need to remember that that is a real part of our relationship. Yeah, and because when you go through childbearing and child rearing and you go through different changes in your body, you know, we're old people now, you know, the reality is that biological needs and desires can shift and change. And if you're not communicating about that stuff, suddenly you're living in kind of a cloak and dagger world where you're you're you're kind of showing up in the bedroom hoping that the other person can read your mind. Yeah, and so much tension can be removed from a marriage by simply inventing and discussing a new plan of saying, hey, where where are you at now when it comes to physical intimacy? How can I meet those needs? And as a wife changes and develops and matures, and a husband grows, you know, uh a little later in his years, those conversations are just invaluable.
SPEAKER_02That is a very powerful truth, and I'm gonna all sort of double down and jump in with you on that and share a personal story with people. There this was what what we needed to hear when Christine and I were first married and were enjoying life and all of that, and life was a little crazy, but we didn't have kids yet. Everything was sort of flow and go, right? It wasn't that big of a deal. It was okay, and I remember we had our baby first one, and I came into your office, and it was a it was a tough week, but it would probably was a tough year, maybe a tough month, I don't know. But and I was starting to ask you questions, and you were sort of diagnosing things nicely and and kind of waiting for me to get to the point. Like, what's the real issue? Just say it. And you could already tell because you had been there so many years before. And I remember asking you, like, is this normal? Like, what is happening? And you go, buddy, first you just you have a baby now, everything changed. And you started asking me about what I do on the calendar. You said, Do you calendar this? Do you calendar that? Do you calendar that? And I remember you asking me, but brother, I you know, you do you do you even ever think about calendaring romance and and sex? And I was like, What? That seems so rigid.
SPEAKER_01I do remember. No, no, Costi.
SPEAKER_02No, no, my friend. A woman needs time to think, pray. She, you, it just ain't you and her, just you know, newlyweds, do what you want. You this is a family now. And so I remember that moment. I went home, I told my wife, and it made total sense to her. She's like, Yeah, it would be great to know when you think all this is gonna happen there while I'm at home with a baby all day. Amen. So and then you had three more kids, so it worked out. Absolutely. So, practically speaking, let's kind of live there a little bit more with the calendar. So you talked about heart emojis and cute stuff and sweet stuff on the calendar. You'd encourage couples to talk, pray, and calendar and discuss their needs. What are some other um sort of maybe the practical elements? Are you sharing? Are you sending invites? So you said Outlook or ICal, what are you using? And uh do you plan that every week?
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm thinking it's Google Calendar. I don't know the specifics, but both of us share, and then we also invite, so knowing when the other person, we need the other person to be a part of what we're doing. Um, but also it has helped me so much shine a light on my blind spot of over a calendar. Events and having his input has helped with just saying no to some things because if it were up to me, I would say yes to everything.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm sure every couple goes through those discussions, right? When you try to plan 18,000 things in a day. We learned early on that basically you've got 21 blocks in a week, right? So seven days and you've got three, you know, in the morning and afternoon and in the evening. You can't really do much of worth in under three hours. I mean, at the end of the day, if it's if it's something important. And so we just take those 21 blocks, we look at them, and we try to be really, really disciplined in making sure that each one of them is being used effectively and not to uh over plan to the point that we lose out on transition time. I love that. Yeah, there's lots of little tricks of the trade you learn as you discuss it. That's the beauty, right? You're a couple, you're one in Christ, and you get to put together your game plan. So Yep.
SPEAKER_02I got another question for you. This is more deeper into the heart of things for people. Someone's listening and they're going, okay, uh, it that's fine. That's good for them. You know, good for Tony and Bree. I'm glad it worked for Costi, and Tony got to help them, and the hens figured it out. What are the dangers awaiting, or what is the erosion process right now for couples who don't get on the same page with their calendar? A husband's doing his thing, and the wife's like, I didn't even know you're okay. Well, I guess I never know what's going on. Okay, whatever. Like that, that sort of indifferent. And people laugh and they make jokes because they have to figure out a way to cope and make it okay, right? So it's sort of the king of queens. The the man's the big kind of fat schlub who's who's not smart, and the wife's got it all figured out. What's happening in marriages when we're ships in the night? What are the dangers?
SPEAKER_03Wow, that's a tough question. I love the King of Queens reference too. Yeah. No, and that's the sketches that that's the sketches that Americana has made for the last 25 years, right? The schlub of a husband and then the dominant woman. And I think there's a huge danger because there's a reversal of the marital order, right? So, really, the goal would be in in the perfect design with Adam and Eve that you've got Adam who's protecting and providing, and he's setting a tone, and we'll talk about that with the convictions, but he's setting a tone, setting a plan, he's providing clarity, and then that way a wife is able to respond respectfully because she feels that there's someone who actually loves her compassionately and is leading her. The problem is when you have the curse and you've got that breakdown, the crazy cycle begins where things go backwards. And, you know, as you know, Costi, suddenly, you know, we we've been in these positions as husbands, you know, where we're we're now the one that's following and she's having to drive and she's having to lead and be analytical and put things together. And so you know part of being a Christian and being a Christian husband and wife is to put things back in God's design. And so if a husband can get out front of things and start protecting, providing, putting together a game plan for both cash and calendar, it allows the wife to feel protected and thereby trust and follow respectfully in Ephesians 5 submission. So I think we're actually dealing with a you know a fundamental doctrine and a fundamental truth of what God wants for marriage.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I think, even too, if I look back on prior years when we were first married, um, it can easily divide the two. Uh, because you're doing your thing, I'm doing my thing. It can drive me to want to be out of the home. It can to to create my own um path. And so having that um just shepherding has been invaluable.
SPEAKER_02That's really good. Bri, I want to throw one more question at you before we move to the last C. How does it make you feel, or how did it make you feel when your husband's just charging the hill doing his thing, and you're sort of lost in the fray and you don't know what's going on, besides what you just described, which is you're like, okay, I'll do my thing. But emotionally as a woman and mentally, what was that like?
SPEAKER_00Great question. Um I definitely felt abandoned in some form, uh, in that I didn't feel that he was elevating the home um in the priority where it was supposed to be. And so seeing ministry, uh, it created uh almost a jealousy towards the things that his time was going towards. And so um it I don't know if that makes sense. Do you want to go out on that?
SPEAKER_03Oh, it totally makes sense. Keep going.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I think you know, coming out of that and now seeing um what was going on inside my heart was jealousy. I didn't have a heart for what he was doing, it was very um mechanical. And so going into the weeds and seeing, you know, what his days look like, seeing what um his needs were, just I brought a sensitivity to that area.
SPEAKER_02That's a great answer. I think that that helps men see what's happening inside of their wives or the a woman's mind and heart. Because what Tony's described is really the exactly what a man should be. And so to get your perspective on how it makes you know our wives feel when we just do our thing. And i you know, if ever a man wonders why his wife hates his job, or if you're a pastor and you're listening and you wonder why your wife hates ministry, there's a lot of reasons. We're not just niching one thing here and being you know over-simplistic. But there is an element of leadership. I think that is why we have to train men and why these things are convicting, Tony, because I for men, you know, so go the men, so go the homes, so go the men, so go the church, so go the men, so go society and homes and things like that. So it's a servant leadership, and hearing your perspective is helpful, Bree. I think that will convict and help challenge us all. Um the third one, convictions, which now really that sets the table for this C. Uh, Tony, I'm gonna start with you again, because we just talked about the man leading out and being the starting point, if you will, of servant leadership. What do you guys do with convictions? Where does that fit in in deepening intimacy?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's the core of everything, brother. Um, you know, the the the cash and the calendar are the day-to-days, but the convictions are the things that that marriage stands for. And hopefully everybody who listens to FTG and is a part of our family, you know, understands that as Christians, we exist for the glory of God and to enjoy Him forever. That's the fundamental baseline of who we are. But that being said, in a union, we want to be able to establish, you know, why do we exist as a couple? And so in the early years, it's vital, or even in the later years for people who are, you know, maybe um you know hearing some of these things for the first time, it's vital to establish what your marriage is for. So, you know, how do you plan to honor God? How do you plan to act in the home? You know, what kind of children do you plan to raise? You know, what's the the goal of your family? You know, how do you how do you worship? Um so I think that's so important to set those those foundations in place. And it's so simple. I think sometimes we we don't do things because we view them as like these big you know master plans that are gonna take years of crafting, when it's as simple as going on a date, looking at your wife or husband and going, hey, we've got two babies now. Um you know, what's our plan for them when they're 18? What should their life look like? And you say, Well, hey, I want them to graduate college, or I want them to be an active part of the Iwana program or the youth group, or you know, I want them to be God fearing. And then you just simply back out of that and go, well, then what will be the key milestones we can put in place, the key indicators to hit that particular objective, right? So we're setting those goals and then we're just setting those measurable steps to reach those goals. And some of them are just simple, you know. We and Bree and I were, you know, we want to have kids who who who know God's word. We want them to be, uh, you know, I call it, you know, independently dependent, independent of me, but dependent on God and able to study His His Word, right? And so what we've done is said, well, then what does that mean? Well, family worship can be, yeah, singing. You know we've got our Getty hymnal right here, actually. Great podcast, by the way. Yeah, you know, and it can be it can be prayer time. We also wanted by the time they could start reading to have them not only read the Bible, but also be able to start performing their own exegesis and do exegetical studies. And so they know a book of the Bible, they understand a pericope or a paragraph, and then they're able to work through it and look for keywords, verbs, nouns, and all that, and then for themselves be able to diagnose scripture and come to conclusions about God and his son. And so I think that was simply a date night takeaway of saying, okay, what's our family gonna be? And then we sat there and then established those steps. And so I don't think it's always as as complicated, you know, as it sounds, and sometimes we don't do it because it feels so difficult. And and then the beauty of that, I'll let Bree jump in, the beauty of that is then when you go on date night, you actually can say, hey, are we hitting our marks or not?
SPEAKER_01That's okay.
SPEAKER_03But they're measurable. And um and then it also, just a side note, keeps us from in the middle of the week when we're tense and frustrated, feeling that that that you know, that that temptation to throw out terminal terms and to get in little erratic fights because we realize there's a date night coming and we can peaceably take these truths, write them down on a notepad, and then approach each other in love and in forgiveness and talk it through. There's actually a time for that. So I think that's why knowing convictions and then having date night kind of upkeep on those convictions is so helpful.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And I think, especially in those early years of marriage, I keep drawing from that because it was so hard. You know, those first few years were so hard for us. And he would come through the door from work, and I would have tons of questions for him, and I would just list it, you know, it'd be in my mind all day, and he'd be so exhausted, and he's sitting there trying to answer, and then I'm frustrated. So it ends up in a fight because he's not able to give me what I need emotionally. So we started just even keeping a list, um, keep it on my iPad and just have I bring it back out at date night and all the important stuff. Um, so I'm not hitting him every day, um, distracting them from things that need to be done throughout the week. And of course, those non-emergency things, like, you know, the kids and um just uh what else? What else do we put on that list?
SPEAKER_03Well, we put anything, anything that bugs us. Yeah. You make it sound like, you know, you make it sound like you know you're at home and and you're this like angry, vindictive lady, and I was coming home with a halo, like a halo over my head, and I'm my Bible in my arm, and I'm out serving the Lord, I'm a missionary for Christ, you know. No, I was a I was a an a husband who was abnating his responsibility. I I wasn't loving you above myself. And Costa, you mentioned that earlier. We we've got to be husbands who are thoughtful of our wife, you know, in laying down our life for them and making sure that that they understand that our compassion and care is for them and that they're just as important as the things we do outside the home. And so when we abnegate that, um it does create tensions. And so, you know, I although I outside of the beach bot, I was a pretty poor husband.
SPEAKER_02Ah, that's great. I I I got a question for you guys on that. So, what do you do and how do you navigate the temptation or the conflict that comes throughout the week? So, a couple things to it. One, you mentioned terminal terms, Tony, and what you mean by is people when they say you always and you never, and they, you know, we accuse people of things that it's impossible to always do something because you're breathing and you're sleeping. But that idea when conflict comes up, like you know, let's say it's you, Tony, and something came up, and you're like, I really I need to tell Bree this. This is this is bothering me. What are the practical things you do that help you keep that under control while you wait for date night?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I wish I could say I do it all the time, but what I would in a perfect world, what I'm trying to do, you know, it would be a Philippians 2 mindset, right? Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit. Um, and so I really want to process that and say instead of looking out for my own interests, am I looking out for hers? Is this truly an issue that is deserving of our marital discussion, or is it simply an issue with with me? And uh the beauty of a date night is it gives you time to write that down and process it, you know. So be quick, quick to listen, slow to slow to quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger, right? So that's the idea is I want to I want to take that thought captive, I want to analyze it through you know God's word, and then by the time it does come up, it's coming out peaceably. And that's that heavenly wisdom, right? That's pure, peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering without hypocrisy. I always want to make sure that by the time it does come out, it comes out through through his wisdom. Um, and so that's my goal, and I don't nail that all the time. I think, in fact, that was one of the big ones that she brought up on our last date night is the graciousness of my speech. Um, and actually, you know, how how quick I can be with my tongue, and then the impact that has on her home. So, actually, everything that we're talking about right here, we just had a really long, healthy discussion a few nights ago. It's powerful. You know, I was actually writing too much about date night and wasn't taking her on one. And then, number two, you know, I wasn't gracious with my speech and saying things too quickly, and so she had to actually lead by making sure we went out and then sitting down to have a conversation about this issue and how it would impact our home. And so it's remarkable that no matter how far we come, it's always a new desperation for God's grace. Um, because we got a long way till heaven.
SPEAKER_02What a beautiful picture. What a beautiful picture. And Bree, I want you to jump in for a second. But that reminds me of how often people will give up on these types of things or not even try to learn because they go, ah, who cares? You know, that's so intense or legalistic, or oh, it's all these rules, or oh, we'll never nail it like that. You're you're describing what everyone goes through and the sin nature we experience and why we need each other. But also, this is we all need a benchmark, right? Like if if you make a mistake and you know there were no standard, well, then what would you ever know is wrong or right? And so this is a beautiful picture of the gospel. It's like a good sermon, you know. You preach to yourself, you preach to people, people go, man, well, I'm not gonna nail that. But do we stop preaching the truth just because the truth is not attainable? No, we keep putting it in front of people, and what you've done is that. Um, you know, Brie, how do you control yourself throughout the week when hubby's right there? And man, you could like it's been a day, and the kids and the home, and you're like, I'm the wife. He I need his ear. This is not gonna weigh, you know. Tell some of the strategies.
SPEAKER_00Yes, so I think just naturally keeping a list and knowing that I will have that time with him provides a natural response of being slow to speak. And um, it's it's helped with being able to pray through the issues. And more times than not, the issues end up coming off the list by the time date night comes, um, because I saw that they weren't as important as I felt like in the moment. Um, also helps me go to the word so that when I am coming to him, I'm coming to him not through just emotion, but through the word of God. And also it that's the front end, but on the back end, it's provided such a place of refreshment and peace for the home. Because I hadn't realized how much my quick to speak and being that dripping faucet um had allowed a lot of the peace from the home to be removed, and so that's been really a blessing on the side from that.
SPEAKER_02That's so helpful, really helpful. I've heard you guys make a couple references that I believe are from the book of James, which as we sort of start our descent and towards the runway, um, talk about a few more things. Would you recommend, like the book of James or what passages, what books of the Bible, maybe it is James, are some of the blessed best places too, they're good starting points for people in marriage to begin to see the Lord work in their hearts through his word.
SPEAKER_03Well, you know, you've you've memorized a lot of scripture. What would you what would be your high highlights?
SPEAKER_00Uh I I've loved the book of James, and so that has been so powerful for me. I think it's just straight and quick to the punch, so yeah, you know exactly what he's he's saying. Um I've loved the book of James, that's been my personal favorite. Memorizing also at nighttime has been so wonderful, and that that's when my mind tends to wander, and also I'm exhausted. And so um having those thoughts taken captive through the word of God has been monumental for me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I would agree. I think proverbial wisdom, you know, proverbial wisdom like James uses, and also the book of Proverbs is so helpful when it comes to the tongue, um, where there are many words, transgression is unavoidable. So I think just just keeping those things in mind. And you know, brother, as pastors, like so much of our life is speaking and talking. And uh I I'm just amazed at how often we have to make phone calls. At least for me, I have to make phone calls and tell people I'm sorry for things. Um constant area of work.
SPEAKER_02Amen. So helpful and a reminder to us all the humility element of it all, and that God's always doing work in our hearts. Um, I I have to admit, there are a few people in my life who know that I'm interviewing you right now. So I got a text message question from someone who knows that I'm on with you right now and they want to ask this. Um the question was: Does Tony share his work calendar with his wife, Bree, or is it more of just sort of a like life calendar? Do you share the work calendar directly?
SPEAKER_03We share, as far as sharing a calendar, we share everything.
SPEAKER_02So everything. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um we we don't keep secrets at all. And you know, she sees everything in my life, I see everything in her life, emails. There's just no part of our life that we we keep separate from one another.
SPEAKER_00Can I add to that though? As far as meetings are concerned, I may know he has a meeting with someone, but he does not share that information, which is which has been um really important, I think, in keeping the privacy of others.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, sure. No, that's really good. And I think I heard a dog barking in the background. Could you guys just help me?
SPEAKER_03I'm amazed, honestly, that we made it through. No dog barking, no Amazon people showing up. I mean, we're here at the house. And so the odds that we made it through this whole thing with nothing is blowing my mind, actually.
SPEAKER_02So I have a question on that note. Quite seriously, the final, final real question here. Um, what advice would you give to parents whose sweet, beautiful, cute little daughters asked for a dog for years and years and they were so dogmatic that they would not have a dog and then eventually got a dog. What would you say to those parents, Tony?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like an Australian labradoodle. I don't know of who you're speaking. I don't know of whom you're speaking. I'll tell you, man, listen, let me tell you, I'm gonna be dad here. You make them work for it. I mean, it is like if you want one of those things, you're gonna work for it. You gotta be able to get a plant and keep it alive, then you gotta get a goldfish and keep it alive, you get a hamster and keep it alive, and you know, you just keep rolling it out. It gives you a year on every new one. And then, you know, six years in, you have to get it, but at least they know how to keep it alive. So it's it's a process. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What is what is uh the labradoodle's name? What name do we go with? Uh her name's Pepper.
SPEAKER_00AKA Pepsi.
SPEAKER_02Pepsi. Pepsi. Oh, that's good. I love that. Well, thanks for being refreshingly unique because it seems like everybody in the Bible world now names their dog like a reformer or you know, something like that. It's nice to to have a normal name. Well, last question, more personal. Um, just what's going on there with the judge? What are some of the exciting things you guys have going on in your life? What are you really looking forward to right now as the year has turned and you're looking down 2021?
SPEAKER_03Oh, we're excited about a lot of things, you know. I think personal stuff. We're you know, we're getting older, but we're excited that praising the Lord, we still have our health and able to um, you know, wake up every morning. And um, I think secondly, on a family level, we got three kids and they're growing up quick. Um, they seem to love, you know, love the Lord, and um, you know, our oldest is is maybe headed towards Bible college and seminary. Um, do you want to do that?
SPEAKER_00Can I just add teenage years are amazing? I've heard that teenage years are so hard, and they are, they come with their challengers for sure. But it is amazing. It is so wonderful to have these humans that came in as babies, seeing them grow up. It's just incredible.
SPEAKER_03The age of opportunity, those 10 p.m. conversations, take advantage of them, don't run from them. There's a lot of good that happens there, and then the church, you know, things are exciting there. We got the new property, the church is growing, an amazing team. I mean, just literally literally the the best. I couldn't work with better brothers and sisters in Christ. Um amazing. And so I know God's using you in a mighty ways, costly, but you missed out.
SPEAKER_02So amen. I did. Well, I've my joke has become my joke has actually become, and it's completely serious. We moved to Arizona. I came here and I preached more than ever before, and the Lord has used that, and you kind of sent me. You're like, brother, you need to go preach more and get sharpened to get better and learn and lead. And then Brett Skinner became the executive pastor at Mission Bible. And here's what God's plan was. He's like, I gotta move Costi over to the desert, get him out of the way. Because Skinner's gonna come in there who's 50 times better at certain things, and then of course, Mission Bible gets the building. I mean, that guy has done amazing things.
SPEAKER_03Um the beauty is we're we're all brothers, and uh it's been a great story to build it together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love it. I love that. Last question, because Bree, you mentioned something about teenagers. Tony, you said it's the age of opportunity. Take advantage of those questions. Um, you guys have been mentors and an example to us with parenting. Um, we're sort of in the trenches doing a lot of what we were taught, and sort of like the gospel example you gave earlier, Tony. We fail often at certain things, but the standard's the standard. What are a couple of books that you would recommend to parents who are in the trenches and they're going, I don't even know what to do or where the benchmark is, where's the standard? Give me a couple books you guys have used for parenting.
SPEAKER_00I'm trying to blame you.
SPEAKER_03Shepherding a Child's Heart is great by Ted Tripp.
SPEAKER_00Child Training Tips by Reb Bradley.
SPEAKER_03And Age of Opportunity is pretty good too. Um by Paul Tripp. I think it's okay.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic. Yeah. Love that. Thank you guys so much for your wisdom today, and um, honestly, thank you for your impact on our life personally and so many others. Uh, on the For the Gospel blog, uh Tony, we got an article up about this whole topic so people have something in writing to go back to and utilize. But I want to say a huge thank you to both of you for being on today.
SPEAKER_03Hey, we love you so much. We love you guys.
SPEAKER_02Love you guys too. All right, well, that is today's episode. Thank you all for listening. And again, for more, go to furthegospel.org. You can go to the team page, click on Tony's uh handsome mug there, and his articles will show up in his bio. If you haven't already, subscribe, rate, review, and we are back every single Monday with another episode. I pray that this one takes you deeper into date night intimacy in the ways that matter most. Until next time, keep living forward.