Welcome to the For the Gospel podcast. My name is Costi Hinn, and I am your host today, along with our executive director, Brett Skinner. Brett, welcome aboard.
SPEAKER_02I'm excited to be back as always.
SPEAKER_03Ha ha, good to have you, brother. So on this episode, we're diving into loving and biblical parenting. If you're new to the podcast, for the gospel is all about sound doctrine for everyday people. And so we cover pretty much every topic you can think of. We use the Bible for answers and we try to avoid really, really big words that you have to Google. And we just bring the cookies down from the top shelf where everybody likes them to be, so that we can access God's truth in simple, accessible ways. And so if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and you can follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and even TikTok. Today, our guest is Sharon Canavo. She's no stranger to parenting. Her and her husband Mario host the course Training Hearts for Jesus in Orange County, California. And we know the Canavos personally, both Brett and I. My wife and I have such a tremendous amount of respect and love for the Canavo family. And just on a personal note here to plug this, uh, one of the fondest memories I have in ministry travel was a trip I took to India. And uh Sharon's son Michael is a dear friend. I love him so much. And we were talking one day about sort of leaving the culture behind. And he's a real successful young entrepreneur, and he's like, Man, I gotta do something for Jesus. What should we do? And I said, Come to India. And so two crazy guys just went to India. We disappeared for 10 days. Uh he ate food he had never even heard of and couldn't even recognize. He brought a camera and we had a blast doing gospel ministry. So, Sharon, you guys did a great job uh raising a son who was crazy enough to come to India with me. And so, welcome to the For the Gospel podcast.
SPEAKER_00Well, praise God for those words. You know, it's definitely not us. We just try to be obedient, and you know, they they end up in God's hands. And I am super happy to be here. So super excited to talk about parenting.
SPEAKER_03Love it. Thank you so much for being with us. Well, we're gonna jump right in. Um, Sharon, when we're talking about parenting, there are a lot of opinions about it, of course. Everyone's good for one. And then there's a lot of old techniques that get passed down from generation to generation. This isn't a new thing. People say, Oh, my mother did this, or my father always did this. And well, here's what I'm gonna do. And so I want to start with this question for you. Uh, does the Bible cover everything foundational that we need to parent biblically? Um, and is there, or is there room for some practical tips too? Let's start there. Where do we start as parents?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, that's a great question. And uh, you know, there is so much confusion today. And I my heart goes out to parents, you know, they get information from everywhere. It's coming at them 24-7, and everyone's got a theory and an opinion on parenting. And where are they coming up with their theories and their opinions? And that's the problem. And parents end up getting stuck in this cycle of try it and then dump it, and try it and then dump it, right? And they're confused. I mean, they finally just give up, they're hopeless. And the kids, I mean, they get into a system of understanding they can outweigh their parents. So they never get anywhere. There's no obedience learned and uh no good biblical principles in the hearts of the children. Um, but what is the one thing that never changes? And that's the thing that we love. It gives us that firm foundation, and that's the word of God. So at Training Hearts for Jesus, we take everything from the word of God. And, you know, you ask, is it uh is it sufficient, right? Does it have the answers for parenting? And I love 2 Timothy 3, 16 and 17. That's my go-to verse. All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete and equipped for every good work. Isn't that what we want for our kids? Amen. Right. So, yes, the Bible is sufficient to cover everything related to the moral training of our children, which is the basis, right? Of producing morally mature adults. Um, you know, we can become um drivers, actually, you know, or the our kids can become drivers in the future for truth and for biblical excellence. And our, you know, our generation that's coming up, man, we're in bad shape if we don't get some training in here and help these kids stand on the truth of God's word. So, in order to do that, you know, we have to make God's word the priority. We have to get it into the hearts and the minds of our kids. Um, it has to be a daily process. Um, we have to build into their conscience, right? Otherwise, they have nothing to draw on in life. So that's difficult. And they will eventually be filled with the world's perspective, the world's view. And that's exactly what we don't want as Christian parents. So, you know, we've got that job. We have to teach them God's words, God's laws, God's stories to motivate them about the biblical people who knew how to make right choices in tough situations. You know, and I always say as we as parents, we are um, you know, thinking it's so great that we're getting them to sip from the fountain of truth, and yet the world is fire hosing them with lies.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we've got to up our game, right? Amen. Yeah, we've got a job to do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, amen. Sharon, that's that's that's just amazing. And I, you know, we we teach her all the time the Bible is sufficient. And it's not only sufficient when you have issues, it's not only sufficient when you need to know a little bit more about this Jesus guy, it's sufficient in all areas of our life, um, including, including parenting and speaking of scripture and speaking of the truths of scripture. You know, I know with talking with a lot of parents that they a lot of them struggle with seeing their children as, I'm gonna use the the biblical four-letter word here, as sinners. They they they deny it, or you know, at the very least, they they say, no, my, you know, my X-month-old, you know, or even my X-year-old child um is still too young to understand these truths. Um, I I'd love to hear from you, you know, how should we view our children? How does it help us in parenting them in a in a more loving way?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's funny because I even when you asked that question, the first thing that went into my mind was uh, you know, a picture of my own kids at six month months old crawling towards the electrical outlet, you know. And as they're doing it, they're looking over their shoulder to see if mom is watching. And they're so aware, you know, they know mom said no to the electrical outlet, and yet, you know, I see them six months old crawling over to disobey mom and to check to see if she's watching. I I think it's hysterical, and it is hard to argue with the fact that the kids are sinners from birth. I mean, the only reason we don't realize that they're sinners from birth is they can't do anything, they're just sitting there. You know, we feed them, we change their diapers. They have no ability at that point to sin. But boy, the minute they learn how to crawl or talk, we see it. It is there. And uh Psalm 51, 5, I love it, says, Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity and in sin my mother conceived me. Wow. I mean, how true is that, right? And it's so clear, and that's what I love about God's word. It's always clear, He doesn't beat around the bush. So we are, whether we want to accept it or not, we are sinners from birth. And um, the good thing is if we can accept that about our little ones, we have a right perspective in our motivation to train them properly from the beginning. So it's great. Good truth.
SPEAKER_03So good. I I've heard it said before. I forget who who said it, but um a pastor friend of mine always quotes this. But somebody once said, if they could simply mobilize a group of toddlers, they could take over the world.
SPEAKER_00And that's they certainly have the energy.
SPEAKER_03If they could just hold hold guns and and wear body armor and put on boots and actually walk.
SPEAKER_00That's scary.
SPEAKER_03You could take them all and you to take the rebel army and take over the whole world because they they are. Um you don't teach our children to disobey. We have to teach them to obey. Uh anybody. I think when we get really honest, we we can agree with that. I we have uh an eight-month-old in our house, and little Ruth Joy is very sweet and very um quote unquote innocent. Uh, but you put her on the changing table, and when she's had enough, the back arches and she's grunting. And you know, parents, I think sometimes we go, well, she's just hungry, or oh, she's just she just wants to play. No, she's angry and rebellious and doesn't want to lay there while daddy changes her diaper, and she is showing that she has a will, and she's gonna assert that will and try to sucker me in to giving up. So, Sharon, just to just to tack on to your point, another question and feed off of what Brett was saying. Um instead of denying or running from the idea that our children are sinners, is it should we embrace and even happily so embrace that they are because it helps us parent them better?
SPEAKER_00It does and and that's kind of what I was reference referencing uh in the fact that the earlier we recognize that they're sinners, the better off that mom and dad are gonna be, and the better off that the kids are gonna be. I mean, if I know that my child is a sinner from birth, I'm not shocked by the sin, I'm not um uh overwhelmed by the sin. I don't take the sin personally, or I shouldn't, right? Sometimes we do, um, and we have to we have to correct that in ourselves. But I think what it does is it gives us a compassion for our little ones um to understand that they are going to struggle with sin the same way we do, and they need a savior just like we needed a savior. I mean, that was really the definition of gospel-driven parenting.
SPEAKER_03Yep, absolutely. When it when it comes to let's go down that rabbit hole a little more. Um, when it comes to things like discipline and consequences and restoration, correcting our children, all these words that we might use to basically say, you know, if you know Tommy at 11 says, you know, you know, no, I didn't do my homework, mom, and now, you know, well, you're gonna lose the iPad, you know, or whatever, whatever that is. A lot of people apply these things different ways at different ages and stages. Um, what are some common mistakes we make as parents? Sort of peel back the layers of our hearts. Let's embrace the conviction here. This can be very helpful for us. What are some of the common mistakes we make?
SPEAKER_00It it it's kind of a big question for me. Um and and I hope you will indulge me in allowing to kind of lay out um uh just a I think a problem that parents have that is hanging them up and stumbling them. And I have found that when I share this information, they start to understand a little better about um about parenting. And um let me just we have uh there's a book called Effective Parenting in a Defective World by Chip Ingram. And I I love that book. I'm so disappointed it's out of print or it's almost out of print, but it's on Kindle. I think Kindle or um it might be Audible. I think it's on Audible and worth listening to. But there is one chapter in his book where he talks about uh the difference between punishment and discipline. And I think it's so primary for us as parents to understand what the difference is. And he runs down, he's got it actually in a little chart, and he runs down the column of punishment and then the column of discipline. And he talks about the fact that um in punishment, the purpose of punishment is uh a penalty for or a retribution for an offense. And then the focus of punishment is for past deeds. Like, you know, think about our civil law and how we punish uh people in that, and then the attitude of punishment is often hostility and anger, and the end result is fear, guilt, and often anger on the part of the person who was being punished. And on the other hand, discipline the purpose for discipline is to train the heart of the individual for correction and moral maturity, and uh the um focus of discipline is a child's future correct acts. And I think there's so much hope in that, right? Uh the attitude is the father, the father's love for the child or the mother's love for the child. Um, so the parents do not apply discipline because they're angry or they're pushed to the limit or they're fed up, but instead they are applying discipline because they have their child's best interest at heart. So good. So, I mean, in fact, even just to touch on the angry parent, which I know we have all sinned in that area. So I don't think any of us are above this, but um they need to refrain from applying discipline until their heart is no longer angry. This is the one area in parenting that I approve of a time map, and it's for the parent.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00You know, that they go into their room and they take time in prayer with the word of God and they get their heart right before the Lord and they let go of their pride and humble out and recognize that they're no different than their sinning child, and we're all in need, like we said before, of a savior, and that the purpose of discipline is to bring that child back into a state of humility so that he can learn the lesson for future correct acts, right? I mean, it's just so different, and if we can start out understanding that difference, so we're not approaching discipline in that negative, it's got such a bad rap, right? And yet, uh, discipline is uh that is grace in a child's life. Sometimes I hear parents say, uh, when do I give him grace? And I say, You give him grace every time you give him a consequence for something he's done wrong.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_00Because that's what brings him to the knowledge of his sin and his need for Christ. So it just keeps coming back around to that. And we have to uh, you know, we just have to remember that.
SPEAKER_03Can we, Brett, before you ask your next question, can we just acknowledge and recognize right now publicly that that is crazy what you just said, Sharon, in an amazing way? That a parent would acknowledge their frustration and model a slow to anger approach.
SPEAKER_00Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03So away from the moment, which already is humble and already is crazy because I I know so many of the parents listening are thinking, what are you talking about? In the generation prior, it was very well said a a parent never apologizes to their child, a parent never shows weakness to their child, an adult never apologizes to a child. So we just plow forward, and then if you know they say, Well, mommy or daddy, um, you told me I couldn't do that. Who are who are you talking to? Don't talk back. I'm the adult, I'm an authority here. And that's yeah, so I just want to publicly recognize that so everyone listening can realize that is completely different ways of thinking.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think things that we sometimes forget is is striking anybody, hitting anybody out of anger is abusive, even our children. And so yeah, I uh, you know, along those lines, is you know, Cassi, I know you you jumped in there. I was thinking, I'm like, man, we should almost just wrap this this whole episode up. Put a pin in it, we'll do part two, ask some more questions, because that was that was one of those one of those huge things. Um I think discipline consequences, it's an area that that so many parents get confused by, get wrapped up by, are um socially pressured to to to wonder if what they're doing is correct, um, but to bring it all back to the heart and what are we trying to accomplish with the discipline? And it's not about um, it's not about correcting behavior, it's about shepherding the heart, as as you so elegantly put it. And well, you know, another another topic along the lines of discipline that I think is a growing issue has to do with authority. Um, we've seen for for the last century, if not longer, uh, started maybe back with psychology, um, churches started giving up their authority of actually counseling their members with the word of God, and people started going into the world for um for authority. What do I do with with these issues that are happening in my life? We gave up our authority then. I think in the same way, even now, there's a huge pressure of giving up the authority of our kids. And for for decades now, we've we've pumped our kids into schools, we've pumped them into after-school programs, we've pumped them into so many things where we're not actually the ones who are raising them, teaching them, and being the authority in their life. And that's a that's a very broad thing. I'm gonna bring it down to more of a focused question. But let's speak to authority. What should we be teaching our children and how does biblical authority work in a home that is founded on scripture?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's so good. And it's such a good follow-up to what we just talked about because I I mean, I think it's important just to even point out that that little chart about punishment and discipline comes straight out of the Bible. It's a picture of how God responded to his people throughout the entire Bible. You know, there's two categories of people there's people that are within the family of God, and then there are people that are outside the family of God. And as sinners, we face punishment, right? But once you're adopted into the family of God, you no longer face that punishment. Christ took that punishment for us, and that's when we come under God's authority of discipline, right? And so that discipline is a very loving, caring discipline. It's all about the benefit of that child to grow into that image of Christ. And so um, you know, this idea, and you know, you guys were talking about uh how we in the past have approached, no, you don't question dad and do as I say, and you know, never apologize to him, but that's that is not God's representation of authority, and uh and it is really what creates rebellion, right? It's a wrong authority, it's a worldly authority, and the world hates it, and we we grow up kind of hating it in the culture that we're in. Um, and then when we start to understand who God is, that high view of this uh incredibly sovereign king of kings who has cared for us, and we are so small, so insignificant, we think we are so high and mighty, and yet he is so intimately involved with us that he will discipline us to get us moving on the right course. So here we are looking at that example, that model as uh our model for parenting, you know, and you talk about how does that work in the home? I mean, we have to go beyond the idea. That authority is bad, and most of us have grown up with that, and we have to understand that biblical authority is so intimate and so sweet, and really creates the best relationship. Um, we have to understand the value and the goodness of right authority, and to teach our children that so that they can submit underneath the authority of God. When we teach them faithfully to submit to us, and we do that humbly, right? Just like we already talked about. Um and we teach them the goodness of submitting to authority. How easy is it for them when they become adults and the Holy Spirit does the work in them to bring them to Christ, you know, if that's God's will. And um, and they already know how to trust God, they know how to submit to Him because they've been practicing trust and submission in their own home all their lives. And they understand that their parents aren't perfect, they understand they're they're equal in sin, right? None of us are better than the others. So that authority that we have over our children is paramount to send them off into a right relationship with Christ. We don't save them, but we can certainly prep their hearts, and that's what God has asked us to do. He says train them up in the way they should go. When they are old, they will not depart from it. You know, so we have to really change our perspective, change our um direction, and buy in to what is good authority, and then practice that, learn about it, study God's word, study God and know him well enough to reflect his character in the job that you're doing at home.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you you mentioned something you said that we all to a degree do not like authority. And I think to add to this, this isn't just about uh about kids. It has to start with the parents. And you know, you mentioned submitting to God, James 4, 4, therefore submit yourselves to God. It starts with us first submitting ourselves to God. And authority is replete in the New Testament. We have um we have wives submit to your husbands, we have um in Ephesians 5, in Ephesians 6, we have um children obey. Um I always think of it the way that we we have our our our son uh memorizes it. It's it's um children obey mama and dada, right? Like you can teach them these basic truths in in Ephesians 6. We have uh Hebrews 13, 17 that uh the church is supposed to obey and submit themselves to their leaders, and husbands are supposed to submit themselves to the church. Uh, we're supposed to submit ourselves to our governments as well. There's authority throughout the entire New Testament. And if we don't be examples of authority in that God has placed in our lives, we won't be able to teach that effectively to our kids. Um, but we are the the primary authority in our children's lives, and we need to use that authority to teach them that the that the authority comes from God and to submit to God. That is just beautiful. It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love your your passages that you shared. It's exactly, you know, that's exactly where all of my, you know, everything I'm saying is coming from those scriptures and those passages, you know. And I don't know. It's um I I call submission sweet submission. I always add the word sweet on the almost as a reminder to myself, you know, that uh submission is not something I reject. And I think we need to recognize that uh we struggle, like you said, we struggle with authority and submitting to people who are over us um because of our pride. I mean, we ought to just get right down to the brass tacks, you know, the first sin that ever entered the world was pride. And we all have it. We're born in pride. And um, I mean, that is the sin. And so when we come out of the womb, we're like, I am in charge of me, you know, and I'll be in charge of anything else or anybody else that lets me be in charge of them. And when we start to understand that that's pride, that's sin, and we have to work towards humility, we start to understand that submission is so sweet. There's such a freedom in it. And we can function so well when we get to that place where we can humbly accept that.
SPEAKER_03I love I love what you said about our inability to save our children, but uh that we can still teach them. And I do think of today's society and culture right now and how crazy it is out there, we are seeing the ri the open rebellion of humanity against all forms of authority, all forms of government, all forms of whatever. And really, even if a child was not saved, but they were raised in the general moral principles of God's word, and they were taught to submit to authority and to embrace that we're all under some level of authority, even then they would grow up to be in general law-abiding citizens to some degree. I mean just just general principles for humanity um can be drawn from scripture, but when we are talking about salvation, only God can do that.
SPEAKER_01Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_03Sharon, um, I want to dig a little bit into marriage and some of the connection between marriage and parenting. Um, it's been well said that parenting issues are rooted in marital issues. How important is it that parents are on the same page when it comes to their parenting philosophy? And what would you say to a couple who is not in agreement on the way they're parenting or the way they're going to parent? And then um I've got one other question that we can get to after. But we've we had a listener question, somebody sent a question into our ministry asking, um, what do you do when your kids are young adults and you failed at all this, but now you know it all. So make sure to address that later. Okay, okay. Talk to us about the challenges in marriage and getting on the same page.
SPEAKER_00Well, first of all, I'd say um, welcome to the club. Because, you know, you don't you don't come into a marriage like-minded, you know, really, about uh you you've you've just got your experiences from life that you bring into your marriage. So you might both be uh on the same page as Christians, but so funny how we start talking about parenting or finances, and suddenly we're in you know polar opposite directions. And we think, I thought I knew this person, right? And now I don't know who he is. Why is he doing this? Why is he saying this? And it can absolutely tear a marriage apart. It's so true. And couples are failing to make their marriage the primary relationship in the home. You know, the the kids, we give birth to the kids, and all of a sudden there are little idols sitting in their high chairs. And we have to be so careful about that. You know, we've got to keep husband and wife as a team. We are united, we are one in Christ. And so that is the primary relationship. We have to make that primary in the sense that we do what we need to do to make it healthy and make it work. So if our parenting or if our uh marriage is in trouble, if we're struggling, we have to humble out and we have to go ask for help. There are good biblical counselors out there that can help. And then we have to get on the same page in our in our parenting. And one of the things we talked about at the very beginning is we get all of these philosophies and these ideas and these theories about parenting, we bring them into the marriage. And what are they founded on? You know, usually somebody's opinion or somebody else's experience. So we go back to the fact that it has to be God's word. So there are books out there that are good to read. Um, we offer the parenting class, and I know we're in Orange County at this point, but we are working to get online so that we can offer this class to anybody. But that is one of the primary um, you know, kind of reports that we hear back from parents is oh my goodness, we were fighting constantly, and now there's peace in our home because we finally took the stress out of the parenting by getting them on the same page, which is God's word. Um, and you know, we have to remember that when we are in conflict in one of our principles as a married couple, that if we don't consider, and and we, you know, Philippians 2, 3 through 5, I love, um do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility, consider others better than yourself. And if we can get our eyes off ourselves, understand our spouse, we can start moving in the direction of uniting rather than polarizing. But it is, it takes the effort, it takes the mindset to say, I am going to listen, we're gonna talk this through, we're not gonna fight about it, we're certainly not gonna fight in front of the kids, and we're gonna do what we can do for our marriage first. You know, it's interesting. I've seen um, you know, couples bringing uh bringing up issues that they're having with their kids, um, maybe not sleeping through the night or um just showing anxiety and stress. And the first thing I say is, How is your marriage? And I say, Are your kids seeing you together as a teen every day? And we always recommend do couch time, or you know, Mario and I used to do kitchen time. I'd be in the kitchen cooking dinner and he'd come and join me, and the kids were not allowed in there at the time. Uh, this was mom and dad time, and the kids were able to see that we our relationship was a priority. Um, and when I've given this advice to couples, and I'm not saying one or two couples, I have seen tons of couples with this issue, and their kids aren't sleeping or they're having anxiety, and I check on them like two weeks later, and when they've been consistent with their marriage and placing that as the priority, those kids are sleeping peacefully all the way through the night, and the anxiety goes away, the behaviors start to go away. That's how important marriage is. It comes first, parenting comes second. So, yeah, we really need to work on that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I love that. Marriage comes yeah, marriage comes first, parents come second.
SPEAKER_00That's sometimes I get on a rabbit trail. So pull me back if I do.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic. No, that's phenomenal. You know, Sharon, I think one of the things, and we talked a little bit about this in authority, um, that parents have have given up so much authority and they've they've relinquished their primary responsibility to their kids of being disciple makers in the home. Um, you you have uh parents that say, I'm gonna drop my kids off at school, um, and I want them, that's gonna get them educated. I'm gonna take them to uh football practice or uh baseball practice, and that's gonna get them fit. Uh, and I'm gonna take them to church, and that's gonna get them uh spiritual, and that's gonna get them saved. It's this we drop our kids off and we we we step back from our authority. Now, um, you know, I I think it's important to say for those of you who are listening today that it's it's important to understand that the one hour a week that you may drop your kids off in children's ministry is not going to cut it. That's that's it's not gonna get them to heaven. Um that's not enough to actually shepherd and nurture the heart of a child. Um, but I think on the other side, you know, I want to ask you a question specifically about uh church leaders. If there are already church leaders listening, you know, how how might you encourage them uh to come alongside parents um in their church to help elevate the parents as the primary disciple makers in their home?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think first in that, I mean, I'm sure with the parents who are listeners, they need to hear what you just said, you know, that that they can't drop their kids up for other people to do it. It's their job. It's not only their job, but it's a God-ordained job. The minute they had a baby, they had a job to do, and it's God that hired them to do it. And that is God's child, and God wants you to hand that child back to him, trained and equipped for good works, right? Um, and so it's the parents' responsibility to be spending the time with their child daily pouring in God's word, doing Bible studies with them. It doesn't have to take a long time, you know. It can be 15, 20 minutes around the dinner table. It can be uh, you know, another 15 minutes before bed. Um, do a little prayer time and a short little Bible study with the kids in the morning, you know, during breakfast or whenever, you know, just gather the family together and talk about the word of God. It is so important. And then to have those other authorities in their lives, that's so beneficial. That's wonderful. And you mentioned, you know, the pastors in the church. Yes, yes, yes. They are to come alongside the parent to support what the parents are already doing. And, you know, what I used to love was having like-minded authorities around my children because it confirmed for my children that what mom and dad are saying is true. Because mom and dad are not the only ones saying it. There are all these other godly authorities in their life that are confirming it, and that's so positive for the training of the children. And then the coaches, I mean, we had some tough coaches. You can't always pick your child, your coaches. Um, but yes, beneficial because how we used those authorities was we taught our children that they are not always going to be like-minded. And I even remember telling Tori at one point with baseball um when he had a coach that we had prayed we wouldn't get. And the the guy was a yeller, you know. And and Tori, I mean, I picked him up one day and he was, you know, a preteen, and the tears started coming down. And I said, honey, listen, it is not about how he's talking to you, it's about what he's saying. He's a good coach in his words, he's just got a bad attitude. So forgive the attitude and listen to his words. And it was so neat to watch what happened because Tori began to grow radically in his baseball um, you know, talents that year. And that coach started to love Tory. He would pick them up and take them out with his son, and they would practice individual baseball. Um, you know, and it was just this benefit of Tory learning that, okay, not everybody is going to be the sweet Christian teacher I have at school, or the sweet, you know, person in kids' men. Um so all authorities are beneficial if we if we approach it properly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And um, but if we're not doing our job, all of those authorities can also be a detriment to our children. So we have to be careful to take on the job that God has given us and do it well.
SPEAKER_03Very well said, very well said. Sharon, uh, I have a a last sort of a last question digging deep, and then want to ask you about a couple of resources that you can recommend. And um so a parent wrote in and asked us, what do we do now if our kids are young adults? Oh, yeah. We knew none of this. We've read the blog and we've listened to the podcast, and we read a book, and we're going, oh wow, yeah. And and that, you know, the light bulb goes off. Uh give some wisdom to that parent whose child is now, you know, I don't know, anywhere from 17, 18, 19, 20, all the way until, you know, 25, 30. They're sitting at a Thanksgiving dinner with their kid, and they go, Oh, I you know, there's an elephant in the room. We didn't nail it. Uh speak to them.
SPEAKER_00Well, I was a pretty intentional parent, and I still go through that. So I don't think I don't think anybody is really freed up. We all recognize our shortcomings. And unfortunately, we see them in our adult children, or fortunately, I'm not sure which it is, but um, maybe one way God keeps us humble, right? Um, so I think the purpose for us as parents with uh adult children is to remember that they are adults, and these children are no longer kids, they're not children, they're not, they do not have to submit to us. At that point, they're in a different role. They're in the role of honoring their parents, respecting their parents, but they don't obey their parents. So it's no longer the parent's job to parent that child. Your job is done. And whether you think you did a good job or not, don't try to go back and be a parent. At that point, treat your child, your adult child, as an adult, as if it was another person. And if they're struggling with issues, if they're Christians, you can talk to them from Christian perspective on a conversational level, only as long as they're willing to hear it. And we know when our kids are willing to hear something from us and when they're not. Um, and then uh, you know, remember that you are the light for them. So if you weren't a Christian then or you weren't a practicing Christian at that time, um, which is kind of an oxymoron, but um uh we won't get into that. Um, but it's it's okay. You are saved now. We trust God's timing, and we know that God is so good that He will allow you to be a light to your children and a benefit. So just do your best to be loving, kind, don't be critical towards them. Let, you know, recognize you wouldn't do that to another adult. You wouldn't go in and criticize what they're doing and how they're doing it. Don't do it to your children, right? Stay on a good relationship with them, be loving, be kind so that they will want to come and spend time in your home. And in that, you are going to have opportunities to graciously share the word of God just in light of how you're living, right? And that's the best testimony you can be. And pray that God will bring other people into their lives that will maybe have a better ear, you know. Um just they will maybe have entry into that child's life that you don't have as their parent. Um, and accept that and pray for that person, that that person would be a good witness to them. And then ultimately, who's in charge of that child's salvation? If God wants that child, yeah. So he's gonna save that adult if that's his decision, you know. Yeah, I didn't get saved till I was 31. So, you know, a lot of wasted years there, but God has been gracious to give me good produce from that point forward, and it's a joy. So don't lose hope for your grown children.
SPEAKER_03Very well said, Sharon. Um let's go into one more sort of resourcing question. Um, what are one to two books that you would recommend for parents with young children who are still in the trenches, you know, let's say 10 or 11 years old and under? And then what are one or two books for parents with teenagers so people can go and learn more?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a good question. Um, I think you guys realize, you know, having been through the parenting class, that my go-to book is Shepherding a Child's Heart by Ted Tripp. And um, I love that book because it is so complete. He covers every stage of childhood. He deals with all the different aspects of parenting. And he is um he act he is really responsible for my transformation in understanding that parenting. Has to be gospel driven. He um, I loved how he it would even give examples of um, you know, if you're screaming at your kids, if you're yelling at them, if you're upset and you're angry with them, how do you fit the gospel in there? But if you're calm and you have a um, you know, a more shepherding approach to your child when you're correcting them, it can easily transition into a gospel finish. And so super important regarding uh parenting. So I love that for the young kids. Um, I also think it's primary for us as parents to understand that in this culture um it is no longer an option, it is a necessity that we learn apologetics and that our kids learn apologetics. So for children, I would say Mama Bear Apologetics by Hillary Morgan Fur. Uh, great book, and she makes it simple so that mamas can teach their little ones about all of the principles of apologetics. Uh so they have answers, they understand. And then for teens, I would say um, and again, uh, this is Paul Tripp, Ted Tripp's brother, and he wrote a book called Age of Opportunity. And I have read many books for teens, and I have never, I hate to say this, never really cared for any of them. Um because they were, I felt like they were off base. Um Age of Opportunity is a great follow-up to Shepherding a Child's Art. It should be read from like age 12 up. Um, fantastic for transitioning into a more relational style of parenting. And again, for the teens, I would say um Sean McDowell is great for teen apologetics. He's got a new book out that's called Chasing Love. And so it deals with all of the important uh questions about uh gender and sex and all the things that these kids are having to face. Um, and he does it so well. And then also he has a book called Apologetics for a New Generation. So both of those books I think are absolutes for parents and teens. And you'll do yourself a favor and your teens a favor if you spend some time in those books.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. And and Sharon, so you've given us you've given us a taste of what you do for a living. I mean, I I mean that because I've taken your class twice now. Um uh my wife and I are signed up for a third time, uh, this upcoming class that you're launching because it it's it's that good. I've never taken a class more than once in my entire life. Uh, but this class is the one that you just you take it over and over again because there's so much information, and your kids develop at such a rapid pace that you have to constantly go back to this information. Um, now I know your class is in Orange County, but for those of us in Orange County, um, where can they learn more about the classes? Uh, where can they go for more information online?
SPEAKER_00Well, they can definitely go to my website, which is traininghearts.org. Um, super simple. Uh they can contact us via email, which is contactus at traininghearts.org. Um, we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, we're on Twitter, and um, you can go to Linktree and find all of my links there.
SPEAKER_01Awesome.
SPEAKER_00And we also have a Facebook page, um, a Facebook group, which is gonna be great. So we're gonna we just started this and uh we want it to be a you know a contact point where we can actually connect with you. So wonderful.
SPEAKER_03And if and I would want to encourage you if you're anywhere uh near Orange County, so if you're listening to this and you're in you know Victorville or LA or wherever, and you're within 60 to 70 miles, uh you know, even if you're in Oceanside or the San Diego County area, La Jolla, all of those areas, you can get there. I know families who are driving. Sharon, you know them too, Brett, you as well. Yeah, driving, you know, an hour, an hour plus. Uh how long is the class sharing? Is it 14 weeks still?
SPEAKER_00It's 14 weeks, so it's a semester. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03No. We commit to 14 weeks of a whole lot of things that aren't very helpful. And this is something that is of eternal value.
SPEAKER_01So it is, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, true. Get there if you're in the SoCal area. And we'll continue to look for ways to partner with you guys at Training Hearts for Jesus and uh put out great resources. But Sharon, thank you for your insights. Brett, thank you as well for always being such a great host. And we look forward to working with you guys more in the future, Sharon.
SPEAKER_00I do too. Thank you so much for having us.
SPEAKER_03Awesome. Well, thank you all for listening to the Further Gospel podcast today. Be sure to subscribe, rate, review, and for blog articles about parenting and a whole lot of other topics. Go to furthegospel.org and you go to YouTube as well to check out some great teaching videos there. We're back every Monday with another episode. Until then, keep parenting for the gospel.