Welcome to the For the Gospel podcast. My name is Kosti Hinn, and I am your host. For the Gospel is all about providing sound doctrine for everyday people. And on today's episode, I want to talk to you about something that we need to strategically address in our churches and in our own hearts. It is the culture of Christian celebrity. To start off, let's level the playing field. I'm not talking about notoriety or people who are well known. Even in the New Testament, James was well known, the apostles were well known. There were many people who were well known, and it just meant that they were uh well known for being faithful. People appreciated their ministry, they knew what they brought to the table, and so they wanted them to help or lead. And on a personal note, uh, I'm not angry or ungrateful in this episode. I have been in the prosperity gospel world and lived the life of Christian celebrity over there. And then here on the reformed ish side of the conservative world, I've had the pleasure and the privilege of getting to preach at conferences and be whatever level of known the Lord has allowed. And so I'm not trying to dishonor the Lord's kindness to our ministry or whatever has grown or be ungrateful for people who say thank you for your ministry. I've done the same thing for others or two others in that I have said thank you, and I've been grateful for people. I know you are too, because we're an ecosystem, the body of Christ reaching around and helping one another. That's what we do, and that is all good and well. When I say the culture of Christian celebrity, I am talking about attitudes that it creates environments and environments where certain actions become acceptable. This leads to the eventual demise of a ministry. It destroys people's lives, it destroys the lives of leaders, and ultimately it brings reproach on the name of Christ. There's a story that comes to mind from a conference I was at a few years ago where about every five to ten steps, no exaggeration, someone was stopping me to take a selfie. And I felt like I was on a sort of bingo card and they just needed to get their costy hint checked off. And I kept thinking, what is wrong with you dudes? You know, I'm I'm just like you. I don't want a selfie with you. I want to talk about ministry. Hear what Jesus is doing in you. Do you like sports? Are you a hockey fan? If you're Canadian, let's have some Tim Hortons and watch a Leafs game. Do you have any needs that I can help to meet? Because I'd love to meet those. I'm part of the team here in Christianity. Uh, can you meet one of my needs? I have things that I would love some brothers and sisters in Christ to help with. Let's be family in Jesus. And honestly, I'm not judging hearts here, but I remember thinking, quit guffawing over all of this. I told one of the conference speakers about this stuff, and I remember him saying verbatim, get used to it. It's just how they are, you'll never stop it, and that's so cute that you think you can, literally what he said. And I thought, is this a joke? Like the old RC sprawl meme, I don't know if you see it, but he's like, he says, What's wrong with you people? That's what I was thinking. What is wrong with you people? I came out of the prosperity gospel and walked into the same culture. Minus raising sixty million dollars for private jets and heresy. And again, I'm not ungrateful for the privilege to serve, but that's all that well known conference speakers are and unknown ones at that. It's what every pastor is. Servants. We're there to serve. One of my greatest regrets is signing a Bible one time. I'll be honest with you, is a few years back and I wasn't thinking, I'd been signing some books with Romans 116 and writing in people's books, Keep Living for the Gospel. And someone brought a Bible because they didn't have the book, and they asked if I would sign it because it inspires them when they read it to see people who have signed it. And I saw some other signatures on it, and I knew who those people were, and so I followed along. Hands down, looking back, one of the dumbest things I've ever done in ministry. You know, I I just did it. Wasn't thinking. And then some weeks later, and he's even as I told my wife about it after, who's at times smarter and more thoughtful about these things than I am, because she's not into the celebrity culture in Christianity, you know, we started asking some questions, and I took it a lot further, where she'll say, Maybe we should think about that or pray about it. I go a little stronger on it and started asking, you know, am I LeBron? Am I Bryce Harper? Are our conference speakers Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady? Is all this going to be worth money one day and you're gonna sell it on eBay because my preaching stats are enough to get me in the preaching hall of fame? Do I get a special jacket? You know, since then, and that really, really dumb decision, I've refused this sort of thing because it makes no sense biblically. You might as well bring some posters around for your favorite preachers and have them sign it like they're some pagan athlete. Honestly. Brother to brother, sister to sister, let's just stop with the Bible signings. Let's stop signing vinyl Bibles if you're a conference speaker. There's no reason for your name to be inside of a Bible cover. Enough is enough. Make the gospel famous, make Jesus famous, wear him, drool over him, praise him, and be about him. And I get it. You come to churches and you go places because of the speakers and people who are going to provide material that's gonna bless you. I love that. I do the same thing. And I think my favorite stories of people, even coming to our church, or I've heard this before from other guys, you know, is is is this cycle. Somebody says, I found out about this church because of you, and then I came here because I figured you were here, it must be a decent ministry or trustworthy. Then I started growing in my walk. Now I'm a member, I'm serving, I'm giving, I'm discipling, I'm sharing my faith, etc., and that's awesome. And then that's it. That's all there is to it. It's not like we became BFFs, it's not like you selfie every day with your pastors. That's all that pastors and leaders or anyone well known really are. We're doormats. I am a bridge or a doormat. I'm not the destination. No pastor is. The church is, Jesus is. We are only useful for people to wipe their feet on our lives, walk across us like a bridge, and then watch as God moves them forward in their faith. We are not the destination. I would even go further, we're not even attraction on the way to a destination. Just use us for what we are supposed to do, which is to serve you with the word, and then let leaders sit down, pray, study, and then come back and do it again. But honestly, not to just pick on the celebrity culture in the Christian conference scene. This happens in the local church as well, and so all of this applies to the local church. In places where no one knows leaders, but people do, and a system can be created that makes leaders into superhero celebrities and they control everything without challenge or questioning, and they don't have transparent practices, and in this lies the common denominator for everyone, no matter their theology. It happens in the prosperity gospel, it happens in the reformed world, it happens everywhere, because it's not necessarily about a particular brand of theology, although you could say it's theological because it has to do with our view of God and our view of man. It's not necessarily a respecter of camp. It happens where there's human beings because we're all sinful and we all have a proclivity to this. My friend and a man who has free reign to hit me upside the head anytime I get out of line, his name is Dr. Richard Vargas. He released an article recently that really hit the nail on the head for all of us. And I was going through this list, and I'm going to read off his list and give some commentary on it here. His list was nine ways to avoid becoming a statistic, and I could not help but think that guys like Mark Driscoll, James McDonald, Rabbi Zacharias, Benny Hinn, my uncle, and a host of others all have something in common, even though they're theologically different. Some are alive, some are dead, so that's different. Some could still make strides and walk in repentance and grace, which is great, others cannot. Some were sexual abusers, others were verbal and financial abusers. So what's the common denominator? I think we could argue that uh Richard Bargas' list holds the key to that answer. So let's talk through it and go through some commentary. Um, bottom line is every one of the people that I named, and anyone who gets sucked up into this, even if they're not even known, built a structure around them of yes men. And it these people wouldn't stand up to their leadership or hold them accountable. There was not a biblical standard of holiness, even though it was said from the pulpit, it wasn't kept in practice in the leaders' meetings. And Bargus says whether it's gold, girls, or glory, or a combination of these, every failure achieved such great heights because they had constructed a system that assured them that their lusts could grow unchecked. Powerful words from Bargus. In essence, they set a trap for themselves, as the proverb says in Proverbs one, seventeen and nineteen, for in vain is a net spread in the sight of any bird, but these men lie in wait for their own blood, they set an ambush for their own lives. Such are the ways of everyone who's greedy for unjust gain. It takes away the life of its possessors. He says the threats not for ailist celebrities only. We may not all be able to attain the great heights from which they fall, but we shall fall none the less. He talks about Paul's words to Timothy in first Timothy four sixteen, where he says, Keep a close watch on yourself and on your teaching, your doctrine. Persist in this, for by doing so you'll save both yourself and your hears. So here's his nine ways to avoid becoming a statistic. Number one, make sure you're in the word and pray daily. This doesn't point to a legalistic requirement, he says, but a need for the Spirit's continuous work in our hearts through the sword of the Spirit. And yeah, that could come off as, yeah, just read the Bible and pray, you won't turn into Ravi Zacharias. That's not to oversimplify things. That's just to say that with the word and prayer in your life daily, the Holy Spirit's going to be working. And so you'll likely, even if you're wrestling through your own pride or sin, have an opportunity to repent and confess as the sword of the Spirit cuts through your sin. Some thoughts there would be a reminder that John Bunyan's mother put a note inside of his Bible and said, This book will keep you from sin, or sin will keep you from this book. A helpful reminder that it will be sin and unconfessed sin at that that will often divide us from prayer and from the study of scripture. Number two, make sure you've submitted yourself to a pastor or elder to hold you accountable. Maybe a group of them, a plural group of elders if you're a leader. This means if you're a pastor, he says, you are allowing another godly elder or elders to confront you and ask you hard questions whenever necessary. I've seen firsthand what happens when you build a church elder board with your rich buddies who are high on corporate wisdom, which can be helpful, but low on character, honesty, and doctrinal aptitude. This leads to a plethora of great business like decisions, but very few hard conversations about sin, our own hearts, pride and conviction about making hard decisions based on scripture, even if it costs us. Number three, be aware of your own propensities and weaknesses, but do not put too much trust in your own judgment. I really like this one from Richard because it reminds me of Jeremiah 17 9, in which we're reminded that the heart is deceitful. And so he says to allow those closest to you to point out your blind spots, and then you must listen to their wise counsel and correction. A leader has to listen, basically. That one's as clear as day. Number four, allow trusted men of God access to you. This one's important. Don't cut yourself off from those who will be most honest with you because they actually love you. Reminded what Proverbs also says. It's like you could read all 31 chapters every single month, and these truths could help guide us all. Proverbs says that the wounds of a friend, a faithful friend, are there, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy. I believe it's actually Proverbs 27-6 that says, Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy. Number five. Yes men might make your plans go smoother, but you need those who will look at things differently from you and might point out those things you and your yes men might fail to see. This is good. I mean, did you know that even in a Bible church where the Bible is held as the primary authority, you can be shut down, shut out, or shunned if you disagree with leaders? You say, wow, really, Costi? How could you say that? I mean, you're a Bible church guy. Because it happens everywhere that sinful humans congregate. So it's at Bible churches, it's at prosperity gospel churches, it's everywhere. Anywhere that leaders are allowed to build systems that insulate them from accountability, honesty, and proper practice, you will find a group of yes men who do the bidding of a single autocratic ruler. And whether we say we believe in plurality or we say that we're transparent, bottom line is you'll know it because there will be people around you that challenge you, question you, and you don't make all the decisions, and you're not the be all end all of those decisions. Number six, when you are wrong, confess it, repent, and ask for forgiveness. Don't cover your sin or make excuses for it. We all mess up, but there's no excuse for prideful avoidance of guilt, Vargas writes. Thoughts on this would just be a simple question. What will keep us from doing this? Pride. Fear that people will have something on us now, fear that they won't respect us. Those are all lies from the pit of hell. It's pride. We are so good at preaching to people, all of us. Obey the Bible. It's sufficient, right? It is everything we need. It's our authority. Yet when it comes to this one, admit you're wrong, confess it, repent, and ask forgiveness. We tend to be like, nah, that's not going to work. I'm not apologizing. People will just hold it over my head. So we need to remember that when it's time to apologize, the Bible is also sufficient for our life and practice with humility, repentance, confession, and asking people's forgiveness. I remember time and time again being around leaders like this, where you know you're told we don't ever apologize to people. Shepherds don't say sorry to sheep. Reminds me of those legalistic or uh even maybe antinomian parents. People that are overly stuffy and hold the rope too tight with their kids, or people that are overly loose and don't even care, like Eli when he didn't correct his sons. Both can have this in common in which they simply don't ever repent of their sin or say sorry to their kids. They sort of just dominate mom and dad just doing whatever they want, but the kids have to obey. That's what we are like as leaders when we do not ever admit our wrong and confess it, repent and ask for forgiveness. Number seven, be willing to listen to criticism with a humble heart. This one's hard for all of us. Doesn't matter if you're a leader or not. But he says, try to find truth and helpful counsel, even in those complaints that might be unfair or even mean spirited. I love that attitude. And only somebody who's been in ministry as long as Richard could say something like that, and you know that he's telling the truth and that he knows what he's talking about because he's been around for decades. Even the mean-spirited people, I tend to want to say, really? Them? Are you sure? And the older wiser counsel says yes. Even the mean-spirited criticisms can be helpful. You can always learn something from someone or be sanctified by a mean-spirit-spirited critic because you can learn how to respond to them in love without defensiveness. We all fail at that, but the Lord can grow us in it. Everybody tends to take criticism personally, especially in the church world when we've put our blood, sweat, and tears into something. But if the goal is not empire building, then we won't struggle as much with criticism. If it is, you're gonna struggle with it a lot. I'm not talking about one-offs, or every once in a while, you know, someone uh fires over a pot shot and you react a bit to it and you go, man, I yeah, that one really got to me. I'm talking about habitually, every single pushback on what you've built or you've done is met with some excuse. Chances are your empire building, you're not becoming more like Jesus every day. You are about you and your thing. But if the goal is to get better every day, become more like Jesus, then criticism is a great way to either improve or be sanctified through the pot shots of mean-spirited people. Two more. Number eight, Vargas says, be an open book to several trusted people in your life. You should be unafraid to open up any area of your life to a trusted friend who asks, especially in the areas where there may be a potential risk of failure. This is so important. All of us love to self-protect. It's human to try to survive. Everything in your flesh is going to scream, don't do it. You can't trust people. They will just, and then right now insert your greatest fear and projection of people in this blank. But the bottom line is you need some people that you can talk to. There's this idea of over privacy in the church world or even in the corporate world, and we think that ministry is professionalism in which we have to have our tie tied tight and look perfect for everyone because we're a leader. Bottom line is we're crazy if we think that way because leaders are being sanctified too. And I get it, 1 Timothy 3, 1 through 7, we did an episode on what you should expect of pastors. There is a high bar, but to think that high bar means they're never going to sin and that they don't they can't open up to anyone. We are setting them up to be the next Driscoll, the next McDonald, the next Ravi, the next a lot of people, because we're setting them up to have no one to go to to talk about their struggles and grow and be sanctified. I got news for you. Paul, Peter, New Testament leaders, they had an edge to them sometimes and they blew it. They needed to be corrected and they needed to be able to dialogue about that with people. I mean, Peter and Paul had one of the most famous uh falling outs in the New Testament, where Paul rebuked him. Paul, Paul, and Barnabas went through the same thing over John Mark. There's gonna be some conflict, some challenges. Paul wrote about his own struggles in Romans 7. He talked about a thorn in the flesh driving him crazy in 2 Corinthians 12. Can we not talk to some trusted people about what we are wrestling with and then be walked along in love, but in hard truth as well? We gotta do better in that way. Number nine. This one's big. It's the last one on his list. Don't develop a form of church government that cordons you off from any form of biblical scrutiny. He says special committees that don't answer to or communicate with anyone but the pastor have great potential to be a hiding place for sin. Wow, that's a nuke. This one makes my blood boil a bit too, because I came out of a system that did this to perfection. I know it like the back of my hand, and I can smell it from a mile away, which is why as I continue ministry in Reformed-ish circles, and I even entered into reformed-ish circles, I had a bit of culture shock when I began learning about ministry practices on this side of things too, that no one is immune to forming church governance that protects them and insulates them from anyone who would challenge their decisions. So, how do you know if you're in a system or you're a leader who leans this way? Well, you will be someone who is provided with or provides people with a few vague details, just the one that you want people to know, or just the one that leaders want you to know. And if you attend to ask questions in systems like this, it'll be the same thing as it was on the prosperity gospel side of things. They'll say, Yeah, yeah, we've got that handled, and they'll they'll deflect. And brush you off. Or they might ask you if you press harder, you know, more like counselor style, and they start trying to flip it on you. Do you have trust issues? Maybe you should just choose to trust. Or you express challenging issues with things or hurts over certain things, and they'll say, you know, you'll need to take those issues to Jesus. I really can't help you. It sounds like you put a lot of stock in humans and you need to start looking to Christ. You obviously have some things to work through. I mean, that's a great way to deflect people. And then there's another one more aggressive. After all we've done, how dare you question us? Using the past resume as a way to negate any present criticism is a great way to set up a system of spiritual abuse. All of these deflect. In fact, the leader is likely the only one in the room with real trust issues when these type of behaviors are present. They're the one who doesn't trust Jesus enough to be honest with people and risk him deciding sovereignly something different than they would. This is the human proclivity to self-preservation, protecting people and ourselves. And the slippery slope has all but taken a leader downhill when they are going that route. We put the problem back on people and we avoid leadership accountability. This is why ownership is so important for leaders. We have to take ownership of our own actions. We've got to say sorry when we're wrong. We got to do what we preach to others. We have to embrace uncomfortable conversations. We've got to provide answers, even if it leads to more questions, and put trusted people of character around us and then be honest with them and embrace their honesty with us. We've got to ask ourselves, what's the goal in all of this? To build our empire? Or play a role in Jesus building his church? Who are you? Who am I? Who is anyone? Paul said, Who's adequate for these things? Are we really that impressive? Are we really that important? We're going to die one day. Maybe some guys get their name written in church history. Whoop de doo, good for you. Does the hall of fame in heaven know who you are? Does Jesus say, Well done, good and faithful servant? The guys that are going to line the hall of fame in heaven are the guys that nobody probably knew, the pastors in China disappearing? The guys that didn't really fame monger, the guys who didn't want to build the brand and try to make everybody know who they are, or the gals that were just humbly serving Christ on the mission field or in churches? The people who maybe notoriety found them but they truly only wanted to be found in Christ. This is the slippery slope in all of our hearts. No one is immune to it. But Richard Vargas, the end of his article, says that Satan loves to work in shadows and whispers. The more light that we allow to shine on our ministry, the less there is a possibility that sin can grow or remain hidden for long. It's the grace of God that sin comes out and gets confessed. That doesn't mean every time you blow it, leader, that you got to go and write an article or do a video and tell the whole world that you were mean or that you cut somebody off on the freeway. It just means you need to go to somebody privately in your life, admit your sin, set up some systems not to protect you, but to help restore you and keep you accountable. Of course, there are some things that will lead to disqualification from ministry, but by and large, if we'll take Richard Bargas' advice, I think that a lot more men and women will last in ministry because there'll be a lot more checkpoints along the way instead of this big gap between the start of the ministry and the fall of the ministry, with not a lot of accountability along the way. If we will, like a downhill skier, hit the checkpoint every so often with regularity, it's a great way to stay accountable. And I think it's something that is not going away anytime soon. I want to pray for you and pray for me and pray for leaders in churches right now. A simple prayer with an episode like this, asking that the Lord help us all. We need it so much. Sound doctrine, good theology, the ability to call out error, the confidence that we are doing what the Bible says can sometimes blind even us from the fact that we love our own press. We love the celebrity culture, we build, fund, and fuel the celebrity culture. We forget there's nothing wrong with being well known for your faithfulness if that's what the Lord allows. But we've got to remember we're carrying towels, we're washing feet, we are servants, we are doormats, we are bridges, we are bottom-up slaves to Christ. We're not at the top of the org chart, we're at the bottom. We're serving up, we're elevating others. Whoever exalts himself or herself will be humbled, but whoever will humble themselves, they will be exalted. It's John the Baptist, that John 3 30, he must increase, I must decrease. That's the attitude. May we all have that more and more. Jesus, please forgive us all for either contributing or building celebrity cultures in our churches. Help us to highly esteem those who labor among us, but not to think that that means they cannot be held accountable or we can't. Help us to love our faithful leaders because they model what it means to love you the most, and let that be the reason we're thankful for them because of their teaching, because of their life, because they are your useful tools. They're just the paintbrush. You are the master painter, you're the one creating the masterpiece, not us. Help every leader to love accountability, transparency, and to grow in their walk with you so we could all look forward to the day when we will meet you face to face. May this happen more and more in our generation of churches. In your name, Jesus. Amen and amen. Thanks for listening to this episode. For more, go to forthegospel.org or connect with us on Instagram, on Twitter, on Facebook, and on TikTok. We are continuing to try our best to put out sound doctrine for everyday people in ways that excel in creativity and reach into the culture while never compromising on the gospel. We love you. I'll talk to you again on the next episode. Keep living for the gospel.