Welcome to the For the Gospel podcast, where we are all about providing sound doctrine for everyday people. My name is Kosti Hinn, and I have Jesse Randolph with us today, who's one of our regular contributors at For the Gospel. He's a pastor at Mission Bible Church and a good friend of mine. Welcome to the podcast, Jesse.
SPEAKER_00Thanks so much. Good to be with you this morning.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So we are going to dig into a big question that people ask when it comes to the sovereignty of God and sharing the gospel. It's a question that we've had directed to us before in our DMs or via email. It's a question a lot of Christians ask in the church today as well. And it's the idea of the sovereignty of God and evangelism. So the question would be phrased like this if God is sovereign, why evangelize? Now, before we jump into some of the questions that I have, I want to explain what we mean by God being sovereign and saving people, and then why in the world somebody would ask this question in the first place? And the simple reality is this we believe that God is sovereign in saving people. The Bible makes that very clear. Man doesn't save himself, no one does. God does the saving, he initiates, he's the heart surgeon, he's the one that goes in there and transforms people. And then man responds to God and what God has initiated. We get that from passages like John chapter 6, 37 through 39, and verse 43, where Jesus says, All that the Father gives me will come to me, and he's referring to the lost, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. These are God's people, the lost sheep who come, who Jesus saves. For I have come down from heaven, he says, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me, and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he's given me, but raise it up on the last day. And then Jesus says, No one can come to me in verse forty-four of John six, unless the Father who sent me draws him. So God does the drawing, God does the saving. Matthew twenty-two, fourteen says it like this many are called, few are chosen. Ephesians one eleven says that in him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him, who works all things according to the counsel of his will. So God is sovereign, working out his will and saving people. Colossians three, twelve refers to us as God's chosen ones. So he's done the calling, he's doing the forgiving. First Peter two says the same thing. Peter does in First Peter, uh, calling the church the chosen, that God has called and saved people. Jonah 2 9, another one says it like this salvation is from the Lord or of the Lord. Psalm 115 103 says that our God is in the heavens, he does whatever he pleases, and then a couple more just to really get this clear for all of us. Romans chapter 8, the whole chapter is something you should read all the time and have maybe memorized even, or at least sections of it etched in your mind, that God in his foreknowledge has called, foreknown, and justified his beautiful bride, the church. He is the one doing the saving, he will glorify us in the future, and nothing can steal our salvation. And Paul in Romans 8 goes through this incredible list that includes the powers of hell, the devil, death itself, nothing can separate us from the love of God. So you can't lose your salvation. The truly saved will stay saved. God is sovereign in all of that. So, Jesse, with all of that in view and scripture's teaching clear, when someone says, Well, since God is sovereign, you know, why share the gospel? Since He's the one who's gonna do the saving, what use is it anyway? And people can use it as an excuse to be lazy with evangelism, or they say it with a little bit of snark and attitude, a little bit frustrated with the theological view that God saves, and say, Well, I guess we shouldn't tell anyone the gospel then, because we're not gonna change anyone or convince anyone. Talk to us about the natural tension between God's sovereignty, man's responsibility, the paradox of that, and then how do we reconcile those go?
SPEAKER_00Wow, Costi, just gonna dive right into the deep end of the pool, huh? Yes. Wow. Well, those truths that you just listed out are glorious. And there's so many more that you could list out, and we could talk deep into the afternoon about a sovereign God who is sovereign in salvation. Um I think one way to approach this is really to unpack the objections first, right? So people will say that the tension, maybe that's the word you use there, between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility is actually contradictory. Um we would say no way. We know that the that the law of the Lord is perfect. We know that all scripture is breathed out by God and is profitable and is true. That includes truths that relate to God's sovereignty as well as truths that relate to man's responsibility. Some would maybe water down the argument a bit and say, well, if it's not contradictory, it's still paradoxical. Well, a paradox by definition is a logically self-contradictory statement. So even then, that that's not a sound argument because the Bible, again, is true, perfect, sufficient, adequate, God breathed. So we would reject the idea that because scripture teaches that God is sovereign in salvation, that it's contradictory to say man is responsible. We would also reject that it's a paradox. I think the most we could say is what you said, Costi, that it there's there's a tension. There's a tension between these two tracks of truth, between God being sovereign and man being responsible. And of course, in our finite fallen human minds, we might have a hard time reconciling those two, but that doesn't say that, and doesn't mean that they aren't both true. Um so what I would say to somebody who is uh maybe struggling with this is I would point to the the whole other stream of scripture that refers to man's responsibility vis-a-vis God's sovereignty. So I would look at passages like Mark 1.15, where Jesus' first words, the red letters, if you have a red letter Bible in that gospel are repent and believe in the gospel. That sounds like he's talking to man. Uh Romans 10 9, if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. That's speaking to man's responsibility to confess, repent, and believe. John 6.37, you quoted John 6.44, but John 6.37 says, the one who comes to me, I will certainly not cast out. So is there a contradiction? No. Uh is it paradoxical? No. Uh is there tension from our standpoint? Sure. But that doesn't make either stream of truth less true. And it certainly doesn't mean that in the in the perfect mind of God that it that it all works out. It does all work out in his sovereign mind and perfect mind, and we simply praise him for the both truths that he's revealed to us.
SPEAKER_01Man, that is such a helpful response and one that answers a lot of questions for people that would say, well, those contradict and and all of that. Um, I remember a really funny quote and a helpful one in a lighthearted way on a topic that can sometimes get heated when people don't agree. Uh, when somebody once asked Spurgeon to try to reconcile the two truths, and he said, Oh, I never try to reconcile two old friends. And he referred to the sovereignty of God and man's responsibility as two friends. He said, Where those lines cross on the other side of eternity, I do not know, but I'm resolved to believe both because the Bible says both. And so he was a great example of somebody who evangelized all and trusted the Lord. Um, so Jesse, you're one of the most passionate evangelistic guys that I've seen and that I know. And that's saying something because we know a lot of evangelistic guys and guys who are passionate about sharing the gospel. All pastors, I know, at least in our circles, are and love the gospel. We are here at Fur the Gospel. It's why you're a part of it. You do such a wonderful job. Uh, but you go beyond the pulpit. You're one of those guys that loves to get in the neighborhoods, you're in the trenches, you're training people at Mission Bible to do evangelism, you know, relational evangelism in the sense of forming relationships to share the gospel, um, very direct approach evangelism where you're just going some places and asking people uh if they were to die today, you know, would they go to heaven or hell? I mean, all the different approaches. I know that you're taking them, I know you're passionate about them, and you train people. So, as somebody who believes in the sovereignty of God and that he's the one that's gonna do the saving, what's your motivation? Because the way that you're acting a lot of the time, and you're with your passion, is usually the mark of a different stream of theology. Just to be honest. I mean, where, you know, my background with some streams of Pentecostalism and charismatic beliefs, it was very what we would what people would say uh Arminian in the sense of we believed we have to go share the gospel and we have to save people and convince them. And then there's the what some people will say is called Calvinism, where God is sovereign and it can go a little too far, where they people say it's hyper-Calvinism, where people say, Well, I'm just not gonna do anything. You and just humor me here, you evangelize as passionately and as directly as the like crazier charismatics that I used to roll with. Like you you actually do uh look like a person that's like, yeah, I'm gonna go try to save people. Talk to me about the motivation, and yet you hold a conservative theological position with all of this.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna take that as a compliment, Costi.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, it totally is.
SPEAKER_00Oh man, that brother, that's a great question. And um, it's funny you use the you know the word Arminian, and and I I do think that in some respects, though we hold to um here in our church and in my background, uh a reformed soteriology, we we believe that God is sovereign in salvation in that sense. Um, but yet as we go and proclaim the gospel to people, there there have to be different motivations than that. It's not only that that fuels uh evangelism and fuels sharing the gospel. Um for me, there's a few things. Uh, one is I I believe in a hell, a literal hell, where a place that's described as in the Bible as a place of eternal conscious torment, a place that's going to be unbearably hot for those who end up there. But I also believe in a heaven that's unspeakably glorious. And I simply love the people that I'm sharing with. I love the people that um are on one of two paths or one of one of two tracks. And yeah, that's all worked out in the mind of God. But here in my, again, fallen and finite mind, I know my responsibility is to share. Um my job is not to figure out who are saved and who is the elect. My job is to proclaim faithfully the gospel of Jesus Christ. So that's one thing, really just understanding and embracing the realities of heaven and hell, not minimizing those truths, not um minimizing their existence or where people are going if they do not trust in the Savior, Jesus Christ. Another thing is it's my job as a pastor, and as it is yours, Costi, 2 Timothy 4, 5 says we are to do the work of an evangelist. Uh so that's a pretty simple one as part of our job description. But it's not only for pastors, because now we we get down into the Great Commission, right? Here's another simple motivation. Our Savior, the one who redeemed us and drew us out of the pit and set our foot on a rock and granted us eternal life, has set it as clear as he could say it that our commission on this earth is to go and make disciples, to get out there and to proclaim Christ, to reach, teach, and train people with the gospel. And the first part of becoming a disciple, of course, is to hear the gospel message. So he sends us, he tells us under that charge to make disciples, we need to go. So what do we do? We go. Whether we believe in all five points of Calvinism or whether we're Arminian, we go. We share the gospel of Christ. Um, so that's another motivation. Another one I would add is it's a privilege. It's not just a command. Yeah, Christ is our captain and has told us we need to do something about making sure that people know the gospel, but it's a privilege. Think of all the language that Christ uses and the Bible generally uses about who we are in Christ. And some of the different descriptors are things like we're commissioned, uh, we're heralds, we're proclaimers. The one I love is the word ambassador. We are an ambassador of the Lord Jesus Christ. And he is the one that is uh pressing in on the consciences of those who know that he's there and yet reject him. And yeah, white flags are sometimes hard to come by, but we're still called to ask people to surrender their lives to Jesus Christ and trust that he will bring about the results. Um, one other motivation I'll just share with you, Costi, is frankly, it works. Why do I share the gospel? Why do I go out and evangelize? Why do I teach people here to proclaim the message of hope through Christ? Because it works. And when you know that, yeah, the gospel is the power of God to salvation, Romans 1. Um, and one beauty of knowing what we know about God's sovereignty and salvation is that we're not aimlessly shooting at fish in a barrel when we share our faith. You know, fishing is an apt metaphor for sharing the gospel and for evangelism. Um, but we're not shooting willy-nilly or or without aim. We know, knowing what we know about God's sovereignty and salvation, that the fish are already hooked, they're already on the line, and we have the privilege of reeling them in and seeing them come to saving faith.
unknownAmen.
SPEAKER_00Um, last thing I would add is it simply brings glory to God, knowing that we are faithfully discharging our duty to go out there and proclaim Christ. He's doing the saving, we're doing the proclaiming, God gets all the glory.
SPEAKER_01Man, that is so, so clear. How many was that? Six?
SPEAKER_00Uh I lost count. I was between five or six.
SPEAKER_01So good. Who cares? There was a lot of them. That's amazing, man. Um, yeah, I bet you you could go on easily into you know 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 different motivations. Uh, on that same vein of thought, what are some amazing testimonies that you have seen firsthand or even heard of there with the team that goes out and is going door to door and is inviting neighbors and is connecting with people, or even in the past, in your own life, in your own family, maybe your own heart, uh, from sharing the gospel boldly?
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, I wish I could say there's it just comes with ease. And I have all these stories of people that fell on their face right in front of me and repented and believed and and and said, How do I, you know, take me to get baptized now? Um that that hasn't been the case. Um there have been many stories though of we go out, we hit the neighborhoods, we we invite people to church, we share Christ with them, share the gospel with them. And what happens next is they show up at the church. They show up at the church and they hear the word faithfully preached. But as they hear the word faithfully preached, they hear the gospel yet again woven into that message. And then we see many weeks or months, or sometimes even years down the road, they are actually proclaiming their faith in Jesus. And then we see the very people that we knocked on their doors now going down into the waters of baptism, proclaiming Christ as Savior and Lord in front of their church family. So there are many stories of those. Um, one story I'll share with you about something very recent is we've been going aggressively and heavily into the neighborhoods out here in California since about December. And uh I'm just gonna share a story with you about a woman that we knocked on her door. Um, I remember it was a Monday night, a couple, it was a young man and myself, and uh we started talking with her, and I told her I was a pastor at Mission Bible Church around the corner from her, and she and we were here to share Christ with her. And she professed to be a believer, um, but she said, You must be angels sent from heaven, because she was going through some crazy trials and difficulties and circumstances. Um, and the fact that two men would come to her door and talk to her about Christ and encourage her to come to church in that case was exactly what she needed at that moment. Um, fast forward a couple weeks, she shows up at church. Fast forward a few more weeks, she's at some of our women's events. Fast forward a few more weeks, she's in our membership class. So now she is going through the process of becoming a member of our church. And I really believe actually that God is working in her heart to reveal to her that she may have not been a believer all this time and that she is just now coming to faith in Jesus Christ. So again, it's not always the they they they fall flat on their face in the door, the the doorway, but these kind of enduring stories of people in God's timing coming to faith, we have many of those.
unknownMan.
SPEAKER_01Reminds me of uh, forget who said it. I don't know if it was Piper or someone like that, but it was an older, smarter guy who said it's long obedience in the same direction. You know, it's faithful, plotting consistently. And I think you'll have some wild stories where uh the ones that we always want, which is that great awakening vibe where people are just shouting and repenting and they're falling on their knees in the middle of the aisles, and you're going, Wow, only God could do this. It's revival. And yet, so many of the storylines that we hear about in the church are that faithful, evangelism, people coming, and then the Lord doing his work and revealing what he's done in the heart over time. Uh, another question, just pulling the layers back a little bit more and going deeper. Are there extremes we should watch out for? I know we mentioned a few buzzwords earlier with Arminianism and Calvinism and hyper-Calvinism and all of that. Um, what are some of the extremes we should watch out for when it comes to sovereignty and salvation, if you will? In other words, are there certain presuppositions or assumptions or maybe even, I don't know, emotional responses to all of this that can cause our evangelism to go off course and lead us to places we don't really need to be?
SPEAKER_00That's a great question. Yeah, I I think that's a clear temptation for those of us who have an understanding to some degree of God's sovereignty and salvation. Um, one thing I would throw out there is we can't allow our understanding of God's sovereignty to breed laziness, uh, to breed a passivity, a mentality sitting on the sidelines. You know, I'm thinking of um William Carey, you know, the great evangelist and missionary to India. Um, you know, at the front end of his ministry to those people, you might remember he starts trying to form a missionary Baptist Association. And the first response he gets from the people there in the UK is, you know, what when God is pleased to save the heathen there in India, he'll do it. We're not sending you, Mr. Carey, uh, let's let God, let's let God work as though that's divorced from the the call to evangelize. So, I mean, that's just plain lazy. And I think we can say that's plain unfaithful. Um, so we we need to really guard against it. You know, if if we're reading Bobinck's Reformed Dogmatics, or that you just mentioned John Piper, and we're soaking up all this information about sound doctrine and theology, but we're not knocking on the door or walking across the room or sharing with the family member, we're missing the point. Um, our charge is to share, to share the gospel, to pray for that seed to land on good soil, to follow up, to love, to encourage, and ultimately to call for a response. So I would say that um one major extreme to avoid is is sideline sitting in light of what we know about God's sovereignty. Um another one I would throw out there, and I think this is those who this is for those who are uh zealous, I think, in a good way for sound doctrine, which of course we affirm and hold to, um, is we're not called to preach sovereignty to the to the unsaved. We're not called to preach election or foreknowledge or predestination to the person that we're witnessing to. Wow. Right? We're not we're not proclaiming John Calvin. We're we're preaching the gospel. So you know, the person at the door, they're not, they don't need to know that God has saved certain unto salvation men and women unto salvation. They need to know that they need eternal life, right? They need To know who God is. They need to know that He is holy and just and wrathful, but that He's also gracious and loving and merciful. They need to know that there is a that they are sinners. They need to know that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. They need to know that the wages of sin is death. But they need to know that that sin has made this chasm, this gulf between them and that holy God that they stand in opposition to. And they need to know, though, that the story doesn't end there. It then moves on to Christ. They need to know that God sent his son, Jesus Christ, into the world to die a sinner's death on our behalf so that we might have restored fellowship with him and eternal life and glory. And they need to know that that's not just a message to mentally assent to, but a message to respond to. So they need to know that they need to repent and believe, repent, turn from their sin and walk in a new manner of life and believe, trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross to be the thing, the instrument that that saves them from their sin and saves them from the terrors of the hell that I just I mentioned earlier. So that's that's I think a common stumbling block for young, zealous cage stage type guys and gals is to preach sovereignty as opposed to preaching the gospel. So, yes, study sound doctrine, study good theology, be committed to those things, but make sure you're not missing the first thing, the gospel, as you're relating to the to the lost, to the to the unsaved.
SPEAKER_01It's a fantastic explanation there. And um reminds me of Paul saying that the gospel is of first importance. That was his primary effort everywhere he went. And for those of you who hear Jesse say cage stage, what he means by that is those of you who might be early in your conversion or you come into contact with a truth and you're really zealous, you're really fired up, you're gonna tell everyone either you know they're all going to hell, or you're gonna go, you know, yell at everybody with your with big words that you're learning from you know a an article that R. C. Sprohl wrote, and you're throwing big words out there as as he's teaching, you know, seminary students, and no one knows what you're talking about, but you're really fired up. And it's best that you be caged for a little while, lest you say something foolish or uh just confuse a whole lot of people. But also there's an element that is emotional. A lot of people they get saved and they come into reality in the truest sense where they they see their sin, they see God's word for what it is, they all of a sudden are living as a new creation, and they get righteously yet sometimes overzealously angry. And they're mad at sin, they're mad at sinners, they're mad at people who have lied to them. I went through that. I think we all, in some level, go through that when we realize that we were living a lie, and then as well, it's time to calm down, be discipled, uh grow in knowledge, and still maintain a heart for the lost. Jesse, what are some of your heroes from history, missionaries that if somebody said, Hey, I want to know who has been a great example of evangelism, who are the people I can look to for inspiration and motivation, who are some historical missionary heroes that you look to for encouragement?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I mentioned William Carey already. He'd be at the top of the list. Ad and Iram Judson, certainly the missionary to Burma back in the day. Um, I don't know that he was technically a missionary. I guess you could say he was in a sense, but at the very top of my list, and people around this church know this already, George Whitfield. George Whitfield, the great uh first Great Awakening preacher evangelist who was from the UK. But because he was so taken by the very doctrines of grace that we're talking about, the doctrine of God's sovereignty, made 13 Atlantic voyages over to the states to make sure that he could proclaim Christ faithfully up and down the eastern seaboard so that people here in this new republic could hear the message of Christ. And there were just story after story of his powerful preaching. You know, he's preaching to 20,000 people with no amplification. Uh, the guy worked himself to death. Um, his famous saying is, I'd rather burn out than rust out, and burnout he did. And I'm not saying that's all that admirable, but um the fact that he was yeah, the fact that he was so committed, though, to going to the ends of the earth for him, which was over across the Atlantic here, the States, and proclaim Christ um as faithfully, as passionately, and as uh doggedly as he did, he's a real motivation to me. And and the the interesting story about Whitfield is he was a devout adherent to sound doctrine. Uh, he believed in divine sovereignty. There are famous uh debates that he got into between his old friend John Wesley over the issue of is God sovereign in salvation? But what the beauty of Whitfield is, though he believed in a in a high, majestic, regal God, that didn't stop him or stifle him from evangelizing. It fueled him to evangelize. So he is high on the top of my uh list. I would recommend to our listeners, um, there is a book by uh Steve Lawson called The Evangelistic Zeal of George Whitfield, little 130-page book, really accessible, fun read, gives you a nice little glimpse into Whitfield's life. Um, another one is Arnold Dalimore. He's got a giant two-volume um biography of George Whitfield. I'd start with a little slender one-volume biography that that Dalimore wrote to get you introduced to Whitfield, his passion. I think if you're a sound doctrine person who is moving into that uh call to evangelize, that's a great book to start diving into.
SPEAKER_01Wonderful. Yeah, the Steve Lawson series. I think it's called as a series, and correct me if I'm wrong, is it a long line of godly men? Is that the series itself? And it's got Whitfield and Calvin and Knox and Spurgeon, and I know I'm missing a few others, but there is a great line of history there, and they're short books, they're easy to digest. So thank you for that, man. Well, are there any other thoughts or any encouragements you would give to people who are listening? And they would say to you, Okay, I'm in, I'm ready, I'm gonna order one of those books. I get it. What's my next step, Pastor Jesse? How do I go out and do this today?
SPEAKER_00Man, I I want to give the the short answer. I just want to quote the Lord Jesus Christ when he says go, right? And in 28, Matthew 28, 19. And go might look different for different people. So I uh go could be knocking on doors the way we're the way we're doing it here at our church. Go might be standing in front of an abortion clinic and and and winsomely appealing to pregnant women to not only not give up their child and sacrifice their child, but to be reconciled to God through Christ. Go might be being more bold at Thanksgiving this year as you sit across the um unsaved and hostile uncle at the Thanksgiving table. Uh Go might be talking to your children about the gospel, as you and I need to do, you know, every day, really. Um so Go looks different for different people, but that's the point is that we're called to go and make sure that we go and that we're faithful in going. Um I would also encourage you to make sure that you're connected to a church that is faithfully discharging its duty and its people, their duty, to share the gospel. So, you know, we don't want to be the frozen chosen, the holy huddle that's never getting outside the doors of our building and inviting people, not just to church, but to Christ ultimately. So uh make sure that you're anchored in at a church that uh is doing that. And if you're at a church that's not doing that, maybe you're the person that needs to be the person leading that charge to do that. Um so that all boils down, though, to going, making sure we're faithful to go.
SPEAKER_01Such a great answer and a helpful one that I hope encourages you today to go out in whatever context you are in and whatever God has called you uh for in your vocation and in your life stage, we know that he's called us all to share the gospel. Pastor Jesse, thank you for sharing biblical wisdom on this topic and inspiring us to share the gospel and trust the Lord with the results, brother. Sure do love you, man.
SPEAKER_00Love you too, brother. Thanks so much. Grace and peace.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, thank you all for being with us today on the For the Gospel podcast. For free resources to give and support what we're doing, go to furthegospel.org. For videos, go to YouTube and connect with us on social media through Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok. We're back every Monday with another episode. Until then, keep living for the gospel.