Welcome to the For the Gospel podcast. My name is Kosti Hinn and I have the pleasure of being your host. For the Gospel is all about providing sound doctrine for everyday people. And on today's episode, I'm talking with my friend, my brother, uh, for the gospel contributor, and the pastor teacher of Mission Bible East Valley, my Arizona brother, Pastor Albert Kilgore. Thanks for being on the For the Gospel podcast, man.
SPEAKER_00Hey, thanks for having me, brother. Such a blessing to be on with you today.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we're grateful for you. And just so our listeners even know, um, you and I go way back. We spent uh several years doing ministry together. We've even shared an office, so you know more about me than uh most people. And we just love you guys, man.
SPEAKER_00The fill is mutual, brother. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Well, I want to talk to you about prayer. The reason why I've asked Albert to talk to us about prayer is uh he's a prayer warrior. I've seen it in his life, I know it in his life, and um he's got some wisdom pastorally regarding prayer. Uh, first thing I want to ask you, Albert, is what are the things that keep people from prayer?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a great question, Kosti. I mean, there are a lot of things. Um, some things that come to mind right off the bat are uh one, we don't, and this is a different way of thinking about it, but we don't understand the privilege of prayer. And what do I mean by that? The fact that when you go to Matthew chapter six, when the uh disciples are asking Jesus, Lord, teach us how to pray, he says, pray then in this way, our Father who art in heaven. And many times we just gloss by that, we zoom by that, we don't think about that too much or the implications of that reality. But just to consider the fact that you went from death to life, you went from alien and foreign to in regards to relationship with God, to now being in relationship with God and being a child of his, as John one says, there's an immense privilege that comes with the opportunity to literally open our mouths and to speak to the creator of the universe in relationship with him as our father. And that's one thing I think can keep us from prayers. We just haven't been grounded enough to think about the absolute privilege. Uh, we just think it's a duty, we think it's a discipline, all those things it is rightfully so. But undergirding that and underneath that should be the reality that, hey, we've been given the open door to communicate with the creator of all things, uh God of heaven, Yahweh, and he loves to hear our voices, he wants to hear our prayers. And so I think that's one uh from a different angle, a different perspective that doesn't allow us to be properly motivated and some ways can keep us from prayer. Uh, the other is obviously sin and not confessing sin and harboring sin and hiding sin. Uh, many ways that brings rightfully so, shame, guilt, and different things that the Lord really wants to forgive us of. But when we just harbor things and we don't bring them to the Lord, trusting that He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, uh, many times we can uh go to prayer or we can be demotivated to pray, thinking that our prayers are just hitting a wall. And in some ways they they are if we're not confessing, because our relationship has been broken, not in a justification manner, but in a in a relational manner where the Lord's just waiting for us to get that right with Him. And so I think that's another thing that can keep us from prayer. So those two things come to mind right there.
SPEAKER_02That's huge. I think of multiple seasons in my life where prayer dries up like a well, and I just not quote feeling it. And oftentimes when I look back at those seasons, one, I'm forgetting the privilege of prayer. And then two, uh, whether it's sin or something unconfessed or an issue of pride or forgetfulness, or just to be honest, going through the motions, the mundane, the everyday life, I can look back on any season where prayer has dried up and identify my heart wasn't breaking before the Lord in honesty about sin, and then I wasn't relishing and cherishing the privilege of prayer. Man, that's good. Um, do you have moments in your life like you tell us about a season that prayer was a struggle, and maybe it maybe it wasn't even sin, or maybe it was just a a lack of of timing or discipline or even a focus on it where prayer was uh a serious labor, and not in the way that like you were laboring to pray the right way, but you're going, man, I it's just not happening, and then how you overcame that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, we we talked about this a little bit some years ago, um, and just sharing with you some things about just different seasons in prayer. Uh, but interestingly, it was a couple weeks ago in um my Bible group for our church that meets in my home on uh Tuesday nights, we were just talking about different disciplines, different aspects of our walk with the Lord, reading our Bible, prayer, just spending time in fellowship with God. And we got around to the subject of not prayer specifically, but I do think it relates to this just about um how our our relationship with the Lord can sometimes seem like it's on a on a roller coaster. Sometimes we we have those end quote mountaintop moments where things are sweet, things are great, things are awesome. We're leaving our quiet times, full of joy, full of Thanksgiving, full of happiness. And then you have seasons where you're doing the same exact thing, but there is not that sweetness to it. And you're just wondering what's going on. You're searching your heart, you're asking the Lord to reveal is there sin or anything like that. And one of the things that I've noticed, at least over the past couple of years, and more specifically in the past couple of months, that has been pretty, I would say, enlightening for me. Um, and I can't remember exactly what book it was that I read it in, but it was talking about how uh God will allow in certain disciplines, whether it's Bible reading or whether it's even in prayer in this specific case, for there to be a sense or there to be a sense of dryness that comes over us. And what was intriguing when I began to consider this and reading this book was they were highlighting how God will allow that to wean us off of the experience per se, uh, to wean us off of this idea that we've got to have this mountaintop moment and to get us back to realizing, hey, this is just a time and a moment of communion with God, whether you experience this mountaintop or not, it's still as much of a privilege as it is. And so for me, one of the lessons I've learned through seasons like that, and more specifically recently, is I I've got to fall in love with the discipline and the devotion of prayer, not just the time when I feel like I'm on a prayer walk and heaven's opening up, God's ears bent towards me, obviously anthropomorphically speaking. I've got to be just as committed to prayer in those moments than I am when it seems like I'll go out for an hour and it only seems like it was five minutes of prayer. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02Totally. I the I gotta define anthropomorphic. So for our audience, if you're new to to the term, anthropomorphism or anthropomorphic terminology is what Albert just did when he said God bent his ear. It's like when someone says he's got the whole world in his hands. Well, God doesn't have hands because John 4 says he's spirit. So the what he's saying there is yeah, that. Um I love it. We're we've been on a journey, Albert. You know this because you've written for us and you're a contributor, is we're trying to introduce new new definitions and new terms. So whenever someone hears that one, I'm like, yes, that's a good one. Anthro, which is like man, just like anthropology is the study or the doctrine of man. So an anthropomorphism, if anyone ever like, oh God just rushed in or he ran into my situation. Well, he didn't run because he doesn't have legs, but Jesus became a man, he had legs. But that's an anthropomorphism, so you just educated us. Let's go. Praise God. No, that that makes perfect sense. Um and it's a powerful reminder. I feel like both of the questions you've just answered are coming at things from an angle that the everyday person, like all of us in our everyday life, aren't necessarily gonna think of it that way. Um if if I were to do the why thing, why in the world, Pastor Albert, should I establish a habit of prayer? Like why, why? Like God's sovereign, he's got it. You know, I I I I I'm thinking things all the time. I mean, I'm I'm a Christian and I read my Bible, but like, why a habit of prayer? Why, why, why?
SPEAKER_00Huh? Yeah, I mean, the first answer is very simple. Uh, God, God gave us commands to pray. Um, devote yourselves to prayer, keep alert in it with an attitude of thanksgiving. The assumption in uh the uh the Lord's prayer when he's giving them instruction to Matthew 6 is that, hey, when you pray, so the the assumption is you will be praying. You're doing it, yeah. You're doing it. And so that's one, that's a simple answer. But but two, from the heartbeat answer, the reality is God doesn't command us to do something that is simply just laborious and it's just a slavish discipline just to suck up time in our day. Uh, God commands us to do the very things that will bring the greatest amount of joy and the greatest amount of peace, the greatest amount of uh hope to our heart. And prayer is one of those. Prayer is one of those where it reminds us, one, that he's in control. We're not. So we're submitting our requests to him, knowing that if they're going to be answered, obviously, if we're praying in accordance with his will, there is um confidence in our prayers being answered, but knowing that, hey, we're praying to the king of the universe and he wants to hear our prayers, he wants to answer them. Uh, but also just relationally, uh, to not pray is to miss out on one of the key elements of the Christian life. I mean, to not pray and to not communicate with the God of the universe as a Christian, you're you're just missing out on the joy of sweet fellowship with Him. And the more you develop that relationship of prayer, and sometimes it can be clunky at the beginning, but the more you get comfortable with prayer and praying God's word and just praying biblically, it's so sweet when you're able to still away moments to just get away with the with the Lord. And so that's a that's another one. There's a joy that comes. And three, we often hear this in the pulpit, and it's said facetiously, but it's so true. If Jesus, the Son of God, needed to pray, then we need to pray as well. And so that goes along with the command aspect. And so those are three reasons um that we should be devoting to prayer. And if you're on the fence on it, or you just don't consider it that important, I think those are three reasons that should, by God's grace, move you over off the fence into the into the field of prayer.
SPEAKER_02Spot on, man. Paul saying, imitate me as I imitate Christ, Christ being a man who prayed, got away to pray, he focused on it, he isolated himself at times for prayer to get away. Um, moving into the practical element of that, then if people are saying, Okay, I I get it, I want to pray. What are some practical things that people can pray for? And maybe they don't often think of these things. You know, we pray, Lord bless this food, Lord bless my day, Lord protect me, Lord uh you know, provide for me, Lord save my children. Those are all fine. I yes and amen. Pray those things. That's great. But what are some practical things if you were to to go to the heart of a person right now that they can write a list and pray for things they've never really thought to?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a great question. Um I think what you just hinted at was one, I think it's important to have a list. Now, we all do this in so many different ways. Some of us keep our list, get text messages, some of us keep a list in our back pocket with a random piece of paper, some of us write in a leaf of our Bible, some of us have a journal. There's so many different ways we can keep a list. If you just have a memory like an elephant, then you can just store it in your memory in that regard. So I think keeping a list is is helpful. Um I think uniquely in times like like we're in right now, um, and this is probably the furthest thing from what you thought I'd bring up. But um, one of the things I don't know if we've done a good enough job as Christians is to pray for our government. I mean, there's a lot going on in the world and we don't need to jump into all that. But the reality is we're called to pray, 1 Timothy chapter 2, for those who are in authority. And so just stop there. I mean, I think all of us for different reasons can find different motivations to pray for our city government, our local government, our regional government, and then our national government. So that's that's one thing. And then for those who are parents, you've already mentioned it, praying for the salvation of our kids. Uh, God uses means to an end. We're talking about a means right now to accomplish in his will, which is prayer. But uh, God wants parents to disciple their kids. Uh, Ephesians 6, 4, Deuteronomy 6.4, very clear as the responsibility a parent has to disciple their kids. But we also know in the word of God that salvation is from the Lord. And so that right there, if you're a parent who knows the Lord, who's been saved, and you got to live in relationship with Jesus, I know all of us want that for our kids. And so one of the things that I constantly find myself praying for, and I know you're doing that as well, is for my kids' salvation, that the Lord would keep them from the sins that plague so many, and he would open their eyes at the youngest of ages so that they might walk with him and know him and not have to experience all that life will throw at them. And they would just be set apart with pure minds and pure hearts to live and to love him. And so that that's another thing. Um, thirdly, and I could probably just rattle off a bunch, but the other one is just praying for your pastors. That's another one. I mean, you're going to be planting a church pretty soon. Uh, that's common knowledge and that's exciting. But uh, how neat would it be for people that are part of the church plant to just be praying for you, praying for your sermon prep, praying for wisdom, praying for your ability to lead, praying for all just the things that pastors carry that many people in the congregation don't really realize. They can look at uh certain men as if they're supermen and they just got it figured out. They've got this special relationship with the Lord. And yes, we've cultivated a relationship with the Lord, but we're still men, and so we need prayer just as much as anyone else. So you can pray for your pastors, uh, just pray for your church. One of the things that we pray for a lot here at our church specifically is the preservation of unity. Uh, God has brought a church together, but the reality is because we're sinful men, we very quickly and very easily begin to uh bring disruption into the very thing that Jesus is building, which is his church. And so that's another thing. So that that's four items that we may not think about, but I do think are helpful things to be praying about, and we could go on and on and on.
SPEAKER_02That's so helpful. And yeah, I I think the the praying for our pastors is huge. There's uh old historical illustration of the Charles Spurgeon actually getting upset, I believe, at his prayer team. You remember that? Uh there was sermons when sermons fell flat or things didn't go a certain way, he would reprimand the prayer team, I believe, in which like imagine believing in prayer so much that you're gonna hold the prayer team responsible when things don't go a certain way. Um come on. Well man, you know, uh continuing down the vein of practical uh questions and answers from you pastorally, how honest and raw should prayer be? Like, should people veil their dirty, nitty-gritty with the Lord? Do they need to kind of ease the Lord into it? Um speak to us about honesty and and really putting our hearts before the Lord.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I think there's two places, and there are many other we could go. One is the Psalms in general. Uh you see David and his life of prayer and just his communication with God. And he was just honest, he was open, he was forthright, he didn't hold things back, but the ark that you often see is he's wrestling different things through things and he's working through things. And sometimes you read some of the things he says, you're like, is that okay to say to the Lord? The ark he often comes back to is an ark where he comes back to the reality of who God is and his um his greatness and his transcendence. And that brings a level of humility that even you can sense in his prayers. And that brings me to Matthew chapter six, when Jesus, again, we've gone here a couple times, is answering the question that the disciples asked him on, Lord, teach us to pray. And he says, Pray then this way. And he gives us this, he says, our Father. So you got this reality that you're praying to the King of the universe, you're praying to the Creator, you're praying to the one who has established the beginning from the end. There's a transcendence, there's a reality to God's greatness that should leave us with humility and mark our souls with humility and mark our voices with humility. But all the while, from that humble position, Jesus quickly slides over and says, Who art in heaven, who is in heaven. Hallelujah, I'm sorry, I skipped over it. Our Father who is in heaven. And so what you see in those words right there is not only this reality of the transcendence of God, he's in heaven. I think I've mixed those up, but I think you know where I'm going. You get this reality that he is our father. And that should give us a level of boldness when it comes to approaching the throne. It should give us a level of humble boldness to bring uh just realities before him. And then we also are reminded that he knows everything that we're gonna say before we even ask it. And so I think we can be completely honest with the Lord. I think our honesty should be marked with humility. Um, and so I don't see a reason why we have to hold back or to be super formulaic in our prayers and approach with this formulaic type of manner where we're approaching with this six, seven-step process. There are things in the Lord's Prayer, our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come. Many of us have heard the acronym acts, adoration, confession, thanksgiving, supplication. We should have these elements of, I would say, um guideposts in our prayer, but we should be comfortable to be free before the Lord in our prayer. So uh I think give us a lot of that.
SPEAKER_02No, that's helpful. I think of the the Psalms and to encourage people out there, exactly just in the same vein of what Albert's saying, you could be praying someday and you spend your entire time in prayer being honest about your sin with the Lord and how much you hate your sin and how much you need his help and you need his grace, and that's prayer that day or that that hour. Um another session could be praying for the salvation of your kids. Then later on you're commuting maybe to to drive your kid to baseball practice and or go pick them up from somewhere and you're praying for your pastor or you're praying for your neighbor. I mean, it's that's the unceasing prayer idea from Paul. And so I love that. That if if you get too stuck in formulas, which can be helpful, like you call them, guideposts, we can often then say, Oh, I've got to get through every single one because there's four, and then oh, the Lord's prayer, and I gotta do this, and it's like every prayer has a has an eight-step thing. Sometimes it's like David's prayer. You're just really asking God to abolish wickedness, to uh heal our land, to deal with injustice, or you're being honest about your sin going against you and you alone. I've sinned, Lord, help me. Um, I think that's freeing, Albert, to to not be overly formulaic, but have guideposts, but sometimes just get honest with God. Um last thing I want to. Oh, yeah, no, go.
SPEAKER_00One more thing um with that, and you you hit on it, is when you read the Psalms and you just see David's honest with the season that he's in. And it goes to what you're saying right there. I think it's worth stressing. He recognized whether it was Saul, whether it was sin, whatever it was, doubt, whether it was fear, whether it was lack of seeing God's hand move, he was willing to just assess where he was and to bring that before the Lord and just lay it at his feet. And so I think the honesty of just knowing where you're at, whether it's you're struggling with sin or you got these specific burdens, that should filter our prayers and we should do that in a full honest way.
SPEAKER_02So spot on. Amen. Last question. It's a tough one, and I want you to lean into it on this one. Uh, are there prayers God doesn't hear? The idea being, you know, God hears every prayer, just pray. Okay, that's like uh, you know, fortune cookie or um, you know, one of those kind of mom statements where like you just pray, honey, and God hears every prayer. You grow up all your life, you assume God hears every prayer, uh, kind of mess with our reality right now biblically and give us something to chew on.
SPEAKER_00So are you alluding to the fact that God doesn't answer certain prayers?
SPEAKER_01You want me to I'll be the bad guy here. I'll be the bad guy here, since I'm the host of the podcast. Yes, I am saying that.
SPEAKER_00I mean there there's a bunch. Let me let me just give you a couple that that come to mind. Um one that comes to mind specifically is if we pray without faith. Um if we pray without faith, you got James chapter one, verse six and seven that says if we are to ask of the Lord something, we need to ask in faith with no doubting. Uh for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. And so those are prayers that really the Lord doesn't hear at that point. If we're if we are faithless, um, and I know we gotta be careful with that because that could be driven into some of a prosperity type of thing, and so we'll stay away from that. But if we're if we're faithless and we don't believe that one, the Lord is able to answer our prayer or is willing to listen to us, then those are prayers that the Lord uh does not hear. Uh another one that comes to mind is when we're proud of heart. Uh James 4, 6 is so crystal clear. God resists the proud, the idea he opposes the proud. He stands in opposition to the proud, but he gives grace to the humble. And so if we're full of arrogance, we're full of pride, we're full of this, I got this type of attitude and mentality, and we're just going to prayer because we think God commands us to pray, but we still got this bootstrap reality attached to our life uh when we're coming to the Lord, he doesn't hear those prayers. He wants us to come humbly, he wants us to come dependent, he wants us to come uh laying, get on the line, trusting that he's the only one that can move. And so that's another one. And then thirdly, is if we're praying with selfish motives, uh, we're reminded again in James chapter four, he says, if you do not ask or you ask and do not receive because you ask with the wrong motives. You ask for selfish pleasure, you're asking for selfish motives, selfish desire. And I think all of us can examine our prayer lives at different times where we've gone to the Lord, and the reason why we're praying for a specific thing is it's motivated and it's rooted in really our own selfish desires. But God tells us according to his word that hey, uh, if we're praying with selfish motive, selfish desire, selfish ambition, those are prayers that he does not hear. And so those are three that come to mind. There, there are many others.
SPEAKER_02So man, so good. I I just want to camp briefly on the first one you brought up, and I'm gonna read even what you're referring to. I would encourage everybody who is listening to read today James 1 5. If you ever pray, you know, we pray this sometimes even together. Albert and I have prayed this together back in the day when we were pastoring on the same team, you know, praying, God, give us give us James 1 5 wisdom, pour it out with abundance. We trust in faith that you will. When we pray that prayer, realize this. We ain't being no prosperity gospel, word of faith, name it, claim it stuff. I'm just taking scripture in which James says, if any of you ask with lack wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all men generously without reproach, and it will be given. And then what Albert brings up, let him ask in faith without any doubting. We don't doubt that God will pour out wisdom. But then check this out, verse seven. So if you doubt in that asking God for wisdom, then you're like the one who's tossed by the surf of the sea. Verse seven, for let not that man expect he will receive anything from the Lord. So you could take the idea of name it and claim it if you want, and you can apply it to one thing. If you pray for wisdom in faith, God, I believe you can do it. I receive your wisdom, I trust in faith you're gonna give it. Hey, there you go. He ain't gonna give you a Bentley or a house or a job promotion or some brand new $10,000 watch, but he will give you wisdom. There's your there's your name it and claim it, and that's it. But if you don't believe God will give you wisdom, it ain't coming. And I love that you attacked rightfully so, Albert, selfish motives and all of that, because God is opposed to that. Another one that came to mind as you were talking was first Peter 3. When you go to verse 7, husbands, love your wives. You need to be sensitive and understanding to them as the weaker vessel, lest your prayers be hindered when a husband is being nasty and rude and insensitive and not loving his wife like Christ, his prayers are bouncing off the ceiling. So I honestly, I would you be willing to write an article for for the gospel on more of this? I would love to hear, I know our audience would as well, kind of take us through some of a hit list. I'm putting you on the spot now. You got to do it.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, man. I absolutely would love to.
SPEAKER_02I love that. Well, honestly, thank you, brother. I'm so fired up. I'm encouraged by what the Lord's doing through you. Just to finish this episode out, would you be willing to let people know um where you pastor, what God's doing, where they can find out more about your ministry? If they're in the valley here where we get the joy of serving the Lord together and enjoying our friendship still here in Arizona, um, what's the latest for you guys?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, thanks, thanks for the opportunity. Um, yeah, as you mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, um, I pastor Mission Bible Church East Valley in Mesa, Arizona. Um, I'm coming up on a year of being in this role and in this position. And over the past year seeing the Lord do some amazing things. Uh, often people have asked, what's something you're encouraged by? And for me, it's I would use the term spiritual revival. Um, and when we think of that, we think of numerics. Now the church is growing, but one of the things I've been so encouraged by is just to hear how people's love for the Lord and love for the word has just been reinvigorated for whatever reason after a season of it being dormant. And so it's been so neat to be a part of the Lord's work in that regard. And so uh yeah, it's been a joy to be out here. It's a joy to be co-laboring in the in the valley with you who fired up for the shepherd's house Bible church uh launch pretty soon. And uh, Lord willing, the Lord gives us many years to to do work out here in the valley and to see many souls saved for his his name and his glory. And so uh if you have, if you're in the valley, if you're looking for a church, uh just mission Bible church or mission bible az.org, mission bibleaz.org is where you can go to uh find our website and to find directions. We would love to have you. I'd love to meet you. And so, yeah, it's a blessing to be out here, brother.
SPEAKER_02Let's go. Let's go. I'm thankful for you, man. Um, well, honestly, everyone listening, I hope and pray that this has helped you and sharpened you and given you more to think about when it comes to prayer. Uh, Albert will follow up with an article here in the coming weeks on what prayers God doesn't hear. And again, if you're out here in the valley and you're in the Mesa area or within just a stone's throw or anywhere, really, and you want to sit under some faithful preaching and be part of uh a renewal and a revitalization and what God is doing at Mission Bible East Valley, uh, those are my boys. Those are our family. We love them so much. And Pastor Albert is such a faithful man. Uh, thank you for being with us on the podcast today, Pastor Albert.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for having me, brother. It's a blessing.
SPEAKER_02You got it. Well, uh, thank you all for listening. For more, you can go to forthegospel.org, check out our team, our contributors, their churches. You could give tax-free and support the creation of more resources or just learn more about what we offer from articles to podcasts to video. Subscribe on YouTube. We have a channel there. Otherwise, we'll see on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter. And we will be back next Monday with another episode for now. Keep on living for the gospel.