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Welcome to the For the Gospel podcast, where we're all about sound doctrine for everyday people. I'm your host, Costi Hinn, and on today's episode, I'm answering two big questions our listeners asked about recently, and each question deserves a full answer. So this should take up our time today. First question Are sign gifts like miracles and healings still regular and active today, just like Jesus and the apostles performed? It's a great question, and we'll answer it. Second question, how do we have discernment with preachers like Michael Todd, Steven Furtick, and others who seem really cool but stir up a lot of controversy with what they preach? And then how do we navigate the blowback that comes when people call us unloving for calling something out? Both of those questions are deep and important. I'll deal with both with some principles about discernment and even how we can love people in the world today. So, first, let me say that God heals today and he wills and he works in supernatural ways. That's a fact. We have to understand that. When we're dealing with spiritual gifts, it's vital to remember that gifts are given at conversion by the Holy Spirit. They're wielded at all times by a believer who possesses them. You don't get a gift and then God takes it away, or you have a gift, but you are never able to use it. And spiritual gifts are undoubtedly evident when they are used. That's clear across the New Testament. It's even clear today, just logically, as you see people use their incredible spiritual gifts in the church. If you've ever had a moment where you're working with someone, I experience this every single week with our church plant, where someone is incredibly gifted in a way that I am not. And I just look and think, God, thank you for making them a part of our church body. Man, I need them. You're seeing spiritual gifts in action. Spiritual gifts are also based on the biblical criteria for what that gift would look like. And miraculous gifts fit into that category, and that's a real helpful place to start because you don't have to wonder what a miraculous gift of healing would look like. The Bible actually gives us clear evidence of what it would look like. So here's what I believe, and I'm gonna explain why I believe it and give you some biblical backing for it so it's not just my opinion, and then I'm gonna paint the picture a little clearer with some other angles or another view and let you understand at least both sides and where I stand. So, first of all, I believe that the miraculous gifts of the spirit and their purpose are non-normative today. Some people call my position cessationism. I'm always careful with that word because some people think, well, then you don't believe in healing or you believe God does nothing. And there is some classical views on cessationism, like a great theologian from the past named B.B. Warfield, he held a pretty hardcore position in that miracles, healings, none of that even happens today. You just wait for the Lord. And certainly he was a believer. He was a very well-known and reputable theologian. He just had some strong views that would negate anything really happening that was supernatural. Um, a lot of cessationists today don't hold that position. We would just simply say that miraculous gifts of the Spirit, such as miracles and healings, are non-normative today, or they have ceased for now because they fulfilled their purpose in authenticating the message of the apostles. That's Hebrews 2, 3, and 4, helping to establish the foundation of the church. Ephesians 2.20 actually says that the apostles are part of the foundation of the church. Well, you don't jackhammer up a foundation unless it was the wrong one. You don't relay a foundation. Once a foundation is laid, it is laid. And we know that Christ is the cornerstone, the ultimate foundation of the church, and the apostles are built atop him. And then we come after now. We also see that spiritual gifts in the miraculous sense, including tongues and such, were assigned to unbelievers. They would look upon what was happening and be blown away and see, surely these men are apostles. Surely these men were with Jesus. This Jesus who was crucified was real. And so it's important to understand that if you're looking for a full answer on the biblical gift of tongues, we actually have an episode that we did in which we answered the question, is biblical tongues still happening today? I encourage you to go to listen to that. I'm going to deal with miracles and healings here and now. But in looking at the biblical evidence for the gift of healing, that gift was wielded with instant authority and undeniable results. Acts 3, verses 6 to 8 records a man healed who began walking and jumping all the way to the temple. When we're talking about experiencing real miracles and incredible signs and wonders, like supernatural occurrences, I want you to think for a moment about Acts chapter 8, verse 39, where Philip is literally transported by the Spirit of the Lord before the phrase, beam me up, Scotty, was ever a thing, before Star Trek, there was Philip. He was transported. Do you know anyone who regularly transports? Do you know anyone who can simply say, dead man, walk, and in one moment raise the dead? Well, Peter and Paul both raise the dead in Acts 9.40 and Acts 20, verse 10. And then how about this one? A viper bite is just shaken off in Acts 28, 3 to 6 by Paul. Paul basically heals an entire island in Acts 28.9. Do you remember the last time a faith healer or somebody who claims to have these gifts or even believes in these gifts went over to like Mykonos or some beautiful island in Greece, or just popped over to Hawaii and just healed the entire island of Maui? No. Well, because they're not operating in the same way today. These gifted men woke up and could heal. Let me add another element to this. There was no special music. There was no fanfare. There was no offering and money given. There was no question. Nobody limped around in a street parking lot, on a platform. There was no camera work to edit just right. There was no crowd clapping. There was no euphoric experience. This was just some good old-fashioned, God-honoring, disease-ridding, demon casting, gospel authenticating power. The whole purpose was so that the early church could be established and people would again say, wow, this Jesus guy was the real deal. I'm in. Nowadays we have teachers who wield teaching gifts without question. They don't miss a beat. We have people who have merciful gifts and administrative gifts and service gifts and gifts of generosity. They operate in these all the time. But where are the true healers and miracle workers if this is the normative pattern for today and for all time? Where are they? Like a fantasy football team. Everybody should have a healer. Like on a fantasy football league, you get every position on the football field. Well, then everyone should have a healer, a miracle worker, a tongue talker, an interpreter of tongues, a prophet, all of it. But that's not necessarily what we're seeing. And if you were to do a study on miracles in the entire Bible, I just did this recently. I'll take a screenshot of it and post it soon. It is incredible how miracles explode in various pockets throughout biblical history. Jesus, first of all, did a ton of them. God himself does a ton. And then you have Moses, you have Elijah, you have these various eras where some incredible things took place. Think about this. Moses split a body of water. Moses put his staff on the ground and it turns to a snake. Then he eats another snake. There is a floating axe head in the Bible. Samson has long hair, and because of his long hair, he has more superhuman strength than Superman, and he can bring down everything. That is miraculous. That is normative. When you look at the biblical record, it's happening all the time in these various pockets and moments through certain people. Well, we are not seeing the same thing today. Therefore, I would not hold the position that God does nothing. I don't hold the position that we just kind of sit around and wait for him to return and then it's, you know, whatever. No, I would say, like many, there is going to be an outpouring of signs and wonders in the end times. You are going to see an explosion of signs and wonders. You're going to see some crazy things. I hope you're not here during the tribulation. I believe there's going to be a real tribulation. But if you're here, you're going to see some of that. You'll also have realized you weren't a true believer because some people hold the position that the church is going to be taken out before the tribulation. But regardless, let's land here. There is going to be an explosion of signs and wonders in the end times. All of us believe that. Any person believes that who understands scripture. But right now, we've got healing crusades, televangelists, schools for signs and wonders, like Hogwarts, you know, Harry Potter stuff is what the nickname of Bethel Supernatural School of Ministry is called in Reading. That's what the locals refer it to as Hogwarts. Literally, thousands of people believe and claim they can heal and they can prophesy and they can speak in tongues and they can do miracles and they can raise the dead and they scream and they shout and they sing and they dance around and they command everything to happen and it doesn't. Look, I'm not talking about their motives. I'm sure many of them are well intentioned. But we're not here to talk about intentions. I'm not even here to judge motives. We're simply asking, what did the biblical gift look like? Okay, well, that's not what we're seeing today. If we agreed on that, then you'd have to say, well, then what's happening today? I would say, well, it's non-normative right now. You know, to anyone claiming they have the gift of healing because God healed somebody they prayed for. Look, unless you can heal people over and over and over again, you can't say that you have the gift or you're wielding the gift. You could say God answered the prayer of your faith. I've had that happen. I've prayed for people, and they come back and tell me how this and such and such isn't there anymore, or this and such and such didn't happen. I prayed for one guy, his shoulder was in so much pain. And right before church, he just said, Will you pray for me? And I did. And he came back after services, hey, the pain has been completely gone. It's been chronic pain. I haven't experienced any relief. So praise God. The Lord relieved this precious saint and he went in distraction-free to worship. I imagine he had to still go check with his doctor. Who knows? We never talked about it again, but he never talked about the shoulder issue again. Do I go start another Hinn healing ministry? No. I simply keep praying. I've prayed for lots of other people and they don't get healed. I've got a son with cancer. People have prayed like crazy for him, and the cancer just sort of stopped. And the reports are all amazing. And you want to know the real truth? Something I've never really shared publicly. Pastor John MacArthur and some of the elders from Grace Community Church, along with our elders at a different time at Mission Bible Church, prayed for my son specifically, that the Lord would extend his days and heal him if that be his will. And I'll never forget, jotting down in our journal during that time, my wife and I both, that that moment took place. Well, guess what? There weren't really a lot of issues after that. Oh my goodness, does John MacArthur have the gift of healing? Should I call my pastor, Anthony Wood from Mission Bible, and tell him he needs to add a healing ministry to the local church work there? No. You just go to your brothers, you ask some guys to pray, or some people offer to pray, and the Lord does great things. Guess what? I've had other family members die of sickness, and so have you, right? And you've experienced maybe God work in your life, but you've also experienced the pain of trial and loss. We've experienced miscarriages, so have other people. So God is working as he wills. We don't take that and turn it into a formula, and if it happens the way we're praying, we don't take that and say we have the gift of. In Galatians 4, I believe we see things start to change in the early church. At least that would be my hypothesis, where Paul preaches to the Galatians with bodily illness, perhaps a case where the church was now established, and the wielding of these gifts would soon fade with the apostles. James gives a model for the elders to pray for the sick and anoint them. Why would he do that if you could just call your local faith healer? Trophimus is left sick at Miletus in 2 Timothy 4.20. Well, why didn't Paul just heal him with a word? We're also told repeatedly that the present sufferings and trials of this world are guaranteed, but we should trust that God is at work. That's Romans 8.28, he causes all things to work together for good, his good, his definition, not ours. James 1 2 through 4, we endure trial. So if God was setting up a system of continuous healing and miracles all the time, through you and I, just everyday people, and you go to Bethel, Signs and Wonders School of Ministry, get the gift, and go out and heal everyone, why would we be told to biblically brace for trials and suffering and sickness and pain? Why would we continue to be encouraged through the New Testament to endure? Why does every church have teachers and preachers but not healers? And even the ones who say they can heal can't always heal. They don't empty hospitals, they don't raise the dead. You know, nobody would ever be sick, and we would all live healthy. But you realize now it's a pretty good case to say that that normative pattern was for the establishment of the church, and it will come back again one day in the last days, in that sense. None of what people claim is matching what scripture describes from the way people just babble on and claim that it's tongues, schools for miracles, to say you can get gifts and pay tuition, but those gifts should be given by a sovereign spirit, not by your tuition and some self-proclaimed apostle. There's even well-intentioned charismatics and conservative Pentecostals now saying that a lot of the stuff that they're seeing in their own quote camp is not biblical. And we're not seeing the biblical criteria met for what it looks to operate in those gifts. Are there incredible stories of supernatural things happening on the mission field? Yes. Is God still healing today? Yes. But is anyone wielding these gifts like the apostles and martyrs of the early church who died for their faith? Paul, Stephen, Philip, Peter, John, ultimately Jesus? No. I don't believe that is the case. Here's another view to close out that question, and then we'll land the plane with an answer on discernment. This is a view that I can respect and certainly would give some credence to. Held by a continuationist who might say, Costi, I totally agree on the way these gifts should be wielded. I too caution against abuses. But I just can't say that anything is ceased or that, you know, non-normative is the new normal. Instead, there are some brothers and sisters who would hold that God in his sovereignty is not distributing these gifts in abundance right now because they're being abused in America and around the world. That God would simply wait until the end times when signs and wonders explode again, or he's giving them regularly to trustworthy people who you're not going to find on YouTube. They're around the world in different countries, behind enemy lines, enclosed countries where missionaries can't go, or when they go, they have to go in secret. And that God is doing exactly what he did in the early church through them, but not here in America or other places. Look, truth be told, I don't mind this view because it can be well argued from scripture. It encourages discernment. It certainly holds responsible the abusive faith healers and liars and deceivers that are around the body today, circling our wagons. And to be honest, I don't think that anyone holding the cessationist or non-normative view would argue against the prophesied explosion again of genuine signs and wonders in the genuine end times. And what would this view result in ultimately? I think it would result in somebody who preaches the word. Maybe they pray for signs or ask the Lord to use them mightily. Probably not going to get them, much like John Piper when he prayed for a lot of that. They're going to sing sound doctrine and they're going to serve. And you know what? They might even put together 33 years of faithfulness at a church like Bethlehem, like Piper, praying for the gifts, being open but cautious, continuationist. But in the end, you know, on this topic, even if you don't agree with him on other things or you don't like decisions he's made or some article he's put out on this topic, he never went crazy. He never went off the rails. He never started babbling away and he never took his position past scripture. I believe that sort of balance can make for good, healthy discussion between the cessationist or the one who holds a non-normative view and the view that some might hold where they're open but cautious. Regardless of your position, discernment is key. The person asked, How do you discern and deal with these hype popular preachers, preachers that are stirring up some controversy, and then you call stuff out, you get called unloving, you know, join the club. I've been there even just recently. People get so up in arms over calling things out. Let me give you a few biblical thoughts on discernment to close here. First, speaking the truth in love, Ephesians 4.15, and having love so as to avoid being a clanging symbol, like 1 Corinthians 13 says, is possible while still calling out false teaching. You don't have to not do it to use a double negative. In fact, it's love that would compel us to call out error, love for Jesus. So you obey his word in pointing out error, refuting those who contradict him, and you want to look out for people's souls and you want to point them to the truth. Love for souls also includes, though, the people teaching dangerous doctrines. So you and I have to say these things. I love Michael Todd, and I want to see his soul saved and him being faithful. I love whoever you are listening to this, and I want to see your soul saved, right? And you grow and you be faithful. Well, why can we not say then, you know, I I love Todd White as a person, I love him as a soul, as a human made in the image of God. I want him saved. I love Bethel enough to say strong things about the way they have presented Christ. I want them saved. I love Stephen Furtick enough to pray for his soul and want him to use his extraordinary speaking gift for the glory of God and to take his seminary education, which he has won, might surprise some people, and use it to wield the sword of the Spirit faithfully and to be a warrior for Christ. We love the creativity and the tenacity of a lot of these people. We appreciate it. Go, yeah, we want to be that way too, but for the truth and for the gospel's sake, we got to get the text right. You got to let the book talk and get out of the way. You want to love these people as a soul, but it doesn't mean that you're going to stay silent about them deceiving people. You see the balance there? Speaking the truth in love, and you love them and want to see them saved. You don't want to see them burn, you don't want to crush them. Jesus said to love your enemies. You want to love these people who, when they preach falsely about the gospel, make themselves an enemy of God. Preach with passion. Yes. Light yourself on fire and invite the world to come watch you burn. Yes, but by all means, we gotta get the text right. You have to rightly divide the word of truth accurately because God is holy and it's his word, it's not a game. You and I can disagree on a lot of things and still be in heaven together. But you and I gotta be serious about using God's word faithfully. We say it like this you let God use you to preach the Bible's message. You don't just Use the Bible to preach your message. It's a logical fallacy to say there's no love in calling out false teaching. At first, people seem noble, just love people, they'll say. But then upon thoughtful reflection, you realize that calling out error is part of the sacred task of Christian love. Do you want to see people saved? Then call things out that are leading them away from Jesus. Number two, it's important to say calling out false teachers was somewhat of a minor note in Jesus' ministry in that he mainly did it with the abusive Jewish leaders. He wasn't just blasting off on everyone all the time. We know that, everybody knows that, but it was prevalent in all of the apostles' ministries. Why? Because Jesus said, When I go, watch out. False Christs are coming, deceivers are coming. It was almost as if while he was around, it was mostly the Pharisees and the church hadn't established yet, but once it did, the wolves were truly coming. And so in the New Testament, just like Paul tells the elders at Ephesus in Acts 20, 28, after my departure, savage wolves are coming from among you. Look, if you're gonna make the case for toning it down, like, hey, stop calling everything out, I get it. We don't get in the pulpit every week and rail on the latest newsreel of false teachers and go on and on and on. Yes, but a faithful pastor is going to have some track record of calling out false teaching in their ministries and not shirk back because of the cost. And for big influencers with a platform, you who may be listening to this, you've got to frequently assess your heart. I do too. I probably don't have as big a platform as some of the major players, but we've got a little bit of influence here. And so I have to ask these questions, and I would challenge any other person who has some influence to ask these questions. Are you scared to lose major conference invites because you speak the truth? Are you scared to lose people in your church, money, book deals, big honorariums, and friends who won't be your friends anymore because you spoke the truth and took a public stand? Look, we do want to win people, but we got to be careful of the temptation to just win friends and win status and win favor in exchange for looking the other way. Are we in this to win souls and shepherd the precious people of God? I hope so. Sheep are being led to the slaughter while some shepherds seek to bask in the shade of fame. That is not the call. And finally, on discernment, this is to those of you that get FOMO. You know, fear of missing out. You think you're missing out on everything because you're not going to this conference or that conference, or you're not up on the latest with the latest and greatest hype preaching. Look, if it doesn't look like scripture, you're not missing out. Hype-driven conferences and major false teachers put a lot of money into fooling people. They're great at drawing a crowd, they'll give you the goosebumps, and then they'll send you home on a high only to need another hit six months later. They capitalize on the almost right. Charles Spurgeon said discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It's knowing the difference between right and almost right. That's the challenge. So here's my advice to you. Plug into your local church, use wisdom with who you listen to, expect consistency and biblical truth from leaders, and stop with the FOMO. You aren't missing out. You have Jesus on the throne, the Spirit of God inside of you, and your morning quiet time is the best national conference you could ever attend. You don't need to go chase the next big thing. A lot of it is hype. There's some good biblical conferences out there, and I encourage you to go and fill up and be encouraged and spurred on and go home fired up. Absolutely. But you know what I'm talking about, and you got to use discernment. This was a heavier episode. Those were some heavier topics. So let's do this. Let's pray to close, and let's make good on our desire to actually love people that stir up controversy and cause trouble by messing with people's heads or teaching error from Scripture. Let's truly pray and actually care about our discernment and their souls. Father, I pray you would give our audience discernment, give me discernment. It can be such a challenge not to come off harsh or angry. We're not, we genuinely love your truth and love your gospel. And when people bring reproach on your name, we want to stand firm. And there is a righteous indignation that comes when our Father is being maligned and our Savior is being misrepresented and the Spirit's work is being abused. Help us not to be passive and fearful. Help us to be Ephesians 4 15. As crazy as some people might think we are, we pray that you will save Stephen Furtick. We lift him up to you right now and ask that you help him to use his seminary education and his massive platform to be a lion heart for truth. I pray that you'd make Michael Todd a useful tool and that he would quit trying to bring the Bible to life and just saturate his life with the Bible, that he would train and grow and eventually use his gift to strengthen the body, not to confuse people. Even with the best of intentions, please help us to get your gospel and your teaching, Jesus, right. Please give major influencers discernment on who to platform. Keep us all humble, make us faithful, protect us from ourselves, and please bring revival to hungry hearts. In Jesus' name, amen. Thanks for listening today and for your support of for the gospel. For articles, videos, and to learn more about our ministry, go to www.forthegospel.org. It's for the gospel.org. You can give and support the ministry there as well if the Lord leads you. Don't forget we're on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. And we will be back next week with another episode for now. Keep on living for the gospel.