She lost everything. It made her a better leader, Corrine Gavlinski with Sindy Thomas.

This week, I’m joined by Corinne Gavlinski, whose experience losing both of her parents to dementia fundamentally changed how she leads — and how she helps executives navigate identity shifts of their own.

 We talk about: ✨ The moment every high achiever eventually faces ✨ Shifting from achievement‑driven to legacy‑driven leadership ✨ Leading with more empathy after life’s hardest seasons ✨ Why developing people matters more than driving results. 

If you’re a leader who’s had a wake‑up call — a loss, a health scare, or a major life change — this conversation is for you.

Corrine's website:

 THEGAVGROUP.COM 

Contact her:

HELLO@THEGAVGROUP.COM

ICC #8, Season 6

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

One of the things that I think was the biggest mistake in my career was never even contemplating the value that it would have been to my career had I sought counseling. I sought a neutral, confidential thinking partner. It never even occurred to me. It actually didn't even occur to me until it was too late. And it cost me. I ultimately quit my job at the height of my career at what would have been my highest earning years. And had to take a break. And that was both scary and required. It's very easy to become completely overwhelmed and almost get stuck and frozen, such that you really can't take action. Don't underestimate the value of having someone neutral in your camp. It's a real competitive advantage.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Well, good morning, Corinne. Good morning, Cindy. How are you today? I'm good. Welcome into the Insides Career Club podcast. Thank you. I'm really glad you're here. And I'm looking forward to our conversation. I think it'll be a great one. So before we get into what you're doing now, um, share with our listeners what your business path has been prior to your big life-changing events and then what it is now.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Okay. You know, I started a lot like every college student coming out of their studies. I got my first job. It wasn't necessarily the job that I envisioned for myself, but it was with a company that really invested in young talent. And I was very fortunate in that regard. And they really put me through my paces in a leadership development program. And that was in finance at the time, a credit card management company. And Cindy, I did not appreciate it at all at the time. But looking back, I really do appreciate what that afforded me, which was what I think every young person needs, which is the ability to learn what they like and what they don't like. And that's exactly what I learned. I learned what I was good at. I learned where I could bring value, and I got to lead in a bunch of different areas, which I think is so valuable. And again, didn't appreciate it much at the time, which is a shame. But um I leveraged that for for gosh, almost 13 years, I think it was. And then I had, you know, I started a family and had this beautiful baby and decided to make a pretty significant abrupt right-hand turn into healthcare. And there were a couple of circumstances surrounding that, but lo and behold, I went from being a vice president at um this finance company and I started down at the bottom in healthcare because I didn't know anything about healthcare. So it was a real um ego jolt. Um also a big career jolt for me. Um, but I had confidence and I took a bet on myself that I could build my career back up in healthcare. And that's exactly what I did. And I leveraged the skills that I had learned in managing people and um leading in sales and commercial facing roles like sales and account management into growth stage companies in health tech and healthcare. And so then I built my career back up. Okay, likewise had another life event and pivoted into executive coaching. And really, the work I do now is more thought partnership than even executive coaching. And I'm happy to explain the differentiator that I'm making in my mind around that. Um but I started my own business.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Okay. So, yes, why don't you go ahead and explain what, you know, for to the listeners and to me, what you mean by that change?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

You know, for me, it's about uh the nuance more than the actual skills. I am trained as an executive coach. I have my board certification, but with it, with coaching, there's a very specific construct of how one coaches someone where, and there's a belief that they hold all the answers, right? And we are there to support and help them understand the answers that are within them somewhere. It is forward-facing and is really intended to drive an individual's development and growth forward role. Just very similarly, but slightly different. I think of a thought partnership in a little bit of a different way. There are moments, especially for executives, where they need someone who is a neutral, confidential thought partner or sounding board. One that also is willing to share experiences that they've that I would have had in my career that may lend support to the conversation we're having. And so that's the differentiator that I bring to my work, which is to say it's a bit more of a dialogue, not a session where I'm doing nothing but answer asking questions of my client all the time. It's a give and take relationship, and it's one meant to be grounded in strategy and action. So, how do we understand this situation? How do we dissect it? How do we strategize what to do and how do we get into action around that?

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Okay. All right. Um, I was gonna say something I lost my thought. Um oh, here it is. So what you are doing now as being a thought partner is you are actually bringing your life's experiences, best practices to them and sharing with them. That's why then okay. Wonderful. Okay. Um, so tell us you had a major life change and expand on how it altered your perspective. I've had a couple.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Um I I call them identity jolts because they really do tend to bruise the ego and make you really take stock of what's important. Uh, the one that more recently really impacted the way I work um was that I I cared for two parents that both had different types of dementia. And over about a decade, um I was in a caregiver mode and tried to be a mom and a wife and an executive in a corporate job that I cared very much about. That's and that was untenable. Um, I ultimately quit my job at the height of my career at what would have been my highest earning years and um had to take a break. And that was both scary um and required because I wasn't doing, I didn't feel I was bringing my best to any of my roles, let alone my executive role. And I think what that period taught me more than anything is that when the enormity of what you're dealing with, whether that's a um an ill parent or a very politically sensitive situation at work, it's very easy to become completely overwhelmed and almost get stuck and frozen, such that you really can't take action. And what the experience with my parents taught me is there wasn't any choice but to act and keep going. And I had to get very precise about what was most important to act on today, right this moment. And I think that's the perspective that I can bring to my clients that they don't often have time for. You think about an executive today, they're hit with a barrage of things to make decisions about, um, handle um, you know, all the barrage of reactivity that they're going through every day because there's a fire drill or one of their team members needs them. They don't often get out of executive function and into any type of perspective um setting or even creativity. Creativity really starts to fall off um the cliff. And so working together allows them that time to gain perspective back, both mine being an outside neutral observer, and theirs because they have time to actually sit quietly and think about it.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Okay. So now that you've had this shift, and you know, very often our life experiences do cause us to shift because they're they're major, and we start to see things differently just because of the experience that we've had. And and I will say I'm a caregiver right now. And I we also my sister and I cared for my our parents, so I understand what that means. Yeah, why do you define success now from where you did before?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah. I'm a little embarrassed by this, but we might as well be honest about it. I was really self-centered. I was um throughout my whole career outwardly very, very successful. I was someone who was wired to just get things done and I was rewarded for it. I climbed the ranks pretty quickly. Um, I was pretty adept at navigating relationships. And most of how I defined success was all about my own personal achievement. Caring for and ultimately losing my parents really brought me up short. And probably for many reasons that I don't even fully understand, I really started to shift to how am I really making an impact on the world that I'm playing in? Um how am I lifting others? How am I teaching others what I sort of innately know how to do? And how can I help people who might be in a different yet similar situation of overwhelm, if you will, to move through that in a way that achieves what they're trying to achieve, both for themselves and for their team members. So I became a lot more self-aware and I became a lot more focused on others as opposed to myself. And so today I say that I want my business to be flexible, I want it to feel um free to do the work that I want to do, but I must be adding value to the individuals that I work with. And I have to work with people I enjoy working with. So I'm not for everybody and I'm okay with that. Um, I like to work with executives who have a little bit of self-awareness, who want to move forward and grow, and who recognize they have something that they're not quite sure they know how to navigate alone, but they're afraid to talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, you know, you can definitely hear that trend of self-awareness growing in you. Um, you know, it it dealing with those kinds of life events, really, you know, I think of the Bible, you know, cutting the wheat from the shaft, right? It really helps you crystallize what is truly important in life. Yeah. And then you can adjust how you want to deal with that. Yep. And it sounds exactly like what you did. And um, and then one of the other things that you said, um, you know, I really only want to work with certain people. I feel the very same way. Um, and being in business for yourself allows you that. It does. It does. Do that because when you're stuck in the comp uh company, you've got the boss, you've got um, you can walk in, you know, you may get hired as the manager, but you inherit a team that was there. And you telework with whatever materials, and I'm speaking of uh people materials that are there. That are there, that's right. You're you know, operating within.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

That's right. I think losing my parents though gave me a real awareness that I'm not for everyone, right? I'm not the the necessarily the thought partner for every single person out there, and I'm not trying to be. Um, you know, I have a very direct personality. I have a very uh I can be a bit sassy sometimes and humorous. Um, and I'm not afraid to shine the light on an executive that I'm working with to say, you know, for example, you've said this six times. What what have you actually done about that? Um, which often brings them up short and is something that not a lot of people at work say to them.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Well, they won't because there's a power dynamic they're afraid of. That's exactly right. Um, you know, if you're the one that doesn't have the power, you're kind of going along with the process. That's right. That's right. It's the unusual person that will tell you, but um, and emotionally, um uh a high level of emotional intelligence, um, you know, they or maybe they've just operated that way throughout their lives, they're very direct. And um, you know, that will tell you, no, I don't think that's a good idea. But it also has to be an environment in which somebody feels safe to do that because yeah, you know, I've worked in environments where you speak, you know, feel and agree, you're penalized for it. They remember and it comes back to help. Sure. There's risk. So yeah, there's there's risk.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

So there's, you know, I I talk often with clients about there's a narrative and a perspective or perception of you that starts to form, right? And once that forms, it's very difficult to break out of that. And I always say, let's get ahead of that and work on that before it crystallizes and you can't change it. Because the moment a narrative has formed that you can't change, it's very difficult to be successful at that company. If it's a negative perception, obviously. Um and that's tricky. That's really tricky. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

It takes a lot of work to change that perception. That's right. Tell us more in depth about the programs that you use to help leaders transform their leadership so that they're helping people rather than being about more about what they want and really being inclusive in their management style and um listening to their their directs and then hearing what their directs are telling the people that are supporting it to them.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I work with um predominantly executives or senior level managers, leaders. Um and so often, if I'm just completely frank, a lot of our initial conversations are about themselves because we need to get a grounding on what they're what they're dealing with and and where they see growth that they want to tackle. But quite shortly thereafter, we really start to focus on the talent that they have around their table. How are they utilizing that talent in a complementary way? Do they even understand what their people want in terms of their own growth and progression? Do they have a succession plan? If so, what are they doing to challenge those individuals or individual that they see seceding them? Um, we get right into those kinds of things. You'd be shocked at the number of people that I work with that don't hold regular one-on-ones with their team members. And when they do, they're tactical and not developmental. So I always encourage leaders, especially at an executive level, you need to be having a development conversation with every team member. Now, that doesn't have to be every week, of course. That would be um silly, but you do need to be having it and you need to understand what their desires are because otherwise you may be thinking about their progression in a way that doesn't align with what they even want. Exactly. Exactly. So those are some of the things that we focus on in terms of team development. Um, and often, you know, some number of months after working together, an executive will tell me this, you know, this strategic or political issue that we've been discussing, I can sense that it's impacting my team as well. And when that occurs, that's when we utilize something I call the executive table read or the XTR. I named it after something that a director might do in a movie production. You know, they they get their actors together and they do a table read of the script. Likewise, I do a bit of a table read with that leader and his or her team to say what capabilities are inherent on this team? How are we leveraging them? Where might conflict points exist? And how do we get into action around the things that the team says are most important behaviors to get to their performance goals? It's a very short type of team engagement that can be done in under 45 days, and it just accelerates performance. I do it because probably you as well, Cindy, have have been through countless numbers of assessments and team meetings where they're fun and engaging, and you do become closer to your team members, and then promptly no one ever discusses it again. And so this is an activity directly to combat that, where we go through this exercise and then every 90 days thereafter, we're remeasuring together.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Oh, nice. There's a constant accountability loop. I do like the fact that you include, you know, you're not just speaking to one level of the issue, right? Um, that you are including the team with the um with the um executive and engaging them in the process because I think what happens very often, that step is missed. You know, you're dealing only with the executives and um they may not uh understand, as you were saying, the depth of experience and skills that their team has. Absolutely, and um may not know them well at all. Just on the level, they may not. Yeah, because they're so they're so um busy, you know, doing their executive thing that they don't have the time to share.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Sure. Even the most well-intentioned leaders, I think, fall down a little bit on really understanding their team members. Yeah. And when, you know, and what and the other thing that is often true is that very high performers, very high producers are often elevated to leadership positions without a lot of leadership background. And so that can sometimes create a real recipe for a failure to understand your team members because that person has been rewarded his whole life or her whole life for producing. And now their goal is less about producing and more about developing. It's a pretty big transition to make.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

It is. And um, if you don't have those skills, um, you make so many mistakes and you lose good people. That's true. Does one area seem to be more in line with what leadership needs today? Because there's so much happening in the world of business. Um, a couple of years ago, developing your emotional intelligence or even being aware of it was a big deal. Um, so maybe people are a little more in line with that. But you know, it could be just a fad and they heard about it, and you know, then they've moved on to something else. Or um is it putting AI, figuring out the AI solutions to business, or um managing in this business evolution is a good word for it, um, of what's going on because of AI and the economy and everything. So, are you seeing any trends right now with the executives that you're dealing with? Um what seems to be the biggest issues with them?

SPEAKER_00 20:57

You're not wrong. Um, all of those things have had emphasis and been widely talked about in the news and corporate leadership circles. And they all sort of, you know, ping upwards and then drop back down again, right? Um AI is certainly a very timely topic. Lots of people talking about how to use it, where to use it. Oh my gosh, how do I get up to speed on it? Wait, I've got to get the team up to speed on it. There's a lot of conversation around that. I'll be honest with you, Cindy. I think the work that I'm doing with my clients is less about the topic of the moment in corporate leadership circles and tends to be really grounded in the basics. One thing that commun that AI is not going to take away is the need to be able to communicate well with others. No, and when you are trying to progress your career and you are trying to navigate What will inevitably be some politics somewhere in your corporation, you have got to understand how to communicate with people. And that is not something that AI can get you out of or into.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Right, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

And so we focus a lot on what sounds really basic and simple, but is extraordinarily important. Having the right presence in the room, having the right um ability to read the room, being able to know and manage when your emotions are flaring, knowing when to stop talking or when to assert yourself is critical. And AI is not going to be a solution. No, it's not. It's not.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Those tend to be more along the um lines of emotional intelligence. So how are you training or helping them to find ways to improve upon those different things?

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah. Fortunately, I've worked with uh quite a few men, in fact, who do have some level of emotional intelligence. And I think maybe I draw them in, I don't know, but you know, they um do have some amount of self-awareness and some amount of emotional regulation. That's step one. I think when you don't have that, it makes it very difficult to know that you want to grow in those areas when you don't even recognize it in the first place. Um, one of the biggest tactics that I focus on with clients is how to recognize when you are feeling emotionally unregulated. And this treads into some woo-woo territory, which I'm not a woo-woo type of thought partner at all. But here's where it's effective. If you can catch yourself from uh making a few comments that maybe you shouldn't say, or being extraordinarily direct with someone who needs a bit of sensitivity, you will build greater trust among your team or your peer set than if you don't do those things. And that's important because in order to have influence and make an impact in your leadership, you have got to have trust. And so while it starts out perhaps a little bit woo-woo, the action part is you will not have the influence or impact you want unless you build this trust. And when you yell at someone or say things you are thinking, but maybe shouldn't be said, you're eroding that. And so we work on how where do those things show up for you? How do you know that you're you're feeling that way? How do you take a moment to stop yourself and get curious? And what do you say next that matters so that you don't blurt out the thing you want to say? So we work on techniques around that quite a bit. Um, and that's really effective.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Interesting, interesting. You know, I read something online yesterday. I was on LinkedIn, um, always on LinkedIn. Um, and someone had uh it was a comment about respecting others, and um you know, if you work, I was always in later life very careful about who I worked for because um they had to line up with what I believed as a human being, not to mention, you know, be a good manager. And um I think if individuals can do that, maybe they won't be subject to those outbursts of temper. You know, if you can do your research and talk to to individuals that are on their teams, you know, and find out what kind of manager they truly are, um uh then you might have a better chance of not dealing with some of that stuff. But it's also imperative on the employees part not to take it.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Without question.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Without question, they uh excuse me. I it's like basically I can't hear what you're saying because you're yelling at me. But when you calm down, let's have this conversation. And I think employees need to know that they have that right. Yep, you know. You know, my 52 people are so you know, you're you're you're thrown off base, you kind of don't remember what to do, right? At the moment, you just kind of stand there and take it. I've had that happen to me, and I just kind of went to another place and listened to it and left the room because it was a power dynamic where my company had been acquired. Yeah, and all these people were not in my stratosphere before, right? Um, and so you kind of don't know how to deal with it. It's not something that you would have signed up for.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Yeah, yeah. I think there's two truths about what you just said. Even the best leader can sometimes have a bad day, right? So, um, yes, do your research. Yes, speak with some team members that already have reported to that person. I think the real hallmark of an impactful leader, though, is someone who's not afraid to say, I had a bad day. I shouldn't have said some of those things. I'm sorry, right? Seems sort of like what our grandparents or parents would have taught us. I think it's probably lost in the corporate world. Um, there's nothing in the world right now, in the world in general. There's no weakness in doing that. In fact, I would argue it it's a strength for a leader. So I think that's the first truth. The second truth is as an employee, you absolutely, in a professional way, have a right to not necessarily be on the receiving end of some kind of very direct conversation. I I just had this conversation on Tuesday this week. One of the easiest ways to create a little space between the person coming at you and your own emotion about receiving that is to just name what's happening with the phrase, it seems like. So if we say, it seems like you're trying to tell me this, or it seems like you're very frustrated with X. It does two things. It allows you to lower your own defensiveness, which is no doubt happening, right, as an employee, and it makes that leader or a person, other person, uh, stop. And often will say, No, that's not what I'm trying to say, or no, that's not it. Which then allows them to pivot their conversation. Doesn't always happen, but it's a good segue. And it buys a little time in the conversation. So it seems like is a great technique.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

That's a great tool. Thank you for sharing that because you're welcome. That's something that um can really be used today, especially with the amount of stress, the amount of work, the the immediate uh changes of direction that are happening. You know, I worked in, I don't want to, I won't say the name, but I worked in a um healthcare organization that changed its focus, you know, very other month. So I was like, what is going on here? These people don't know how to manage, they don't know how to plan. What is the deal? And um, you know, it's it becomes very frustrating because you're always starting over again as an employee, yeah, instead of uh building on what you've put, you know, in place. So um, yeah. Very, very, very good tactic, it seems like. It seems like too simple. Well, you know, some of the best things are, right? Yeah. So how would you coach a leader who's quietly struggling with a life-changing event that still has to work because of whatever the circumstances are, and I think most of us can relate to that, right? You're still gonna have income, no doubt, and to to deal with all their work issues and things that are going on, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

I and it you raise a very valid point. Not everyone can quit their job like I did, right? And that was a very um risky thing to do for a variety of reasons. Um, and I was also very, very fortunate that I could do that, right? Not everyone can. So I fully acknowledge that. If I were working with someone who was, you know, under the enormous pressure of having both a very big personal crisis and potentially a lot of work, uh, not only demands, but just maybe there's a crisis at work too. I would get them very, very focused on exactly what we touched on earlier, which is what is the precise thing you need to act on right now, today. So let's not dissect the whole big picture. Let's get really focused. Um, we would also talk a lot about what's within their control and what's not within their control so that they can start to understand where to spend their energy and not spend energy on things that they actually don't have any control over. So precision, focus, um, what's within my control, and how do I take the most immediate action that addresses what's needed right now, instead of trying to boil the ocean, so to speak. That is effective because when you do that time over time over time, session over session over session, that you're working with someone, all of a sudden you have a lot of actions under your belt. And then that starts to feel like progress. Some of that pressure starts to relieve a little bit. That doesn't mean that the emotional toll isn't still there. It's that we can usually withstand quite a bit of emotional toll when we feel like we're making progress. And so my goal is always to get people into action so that we can see together this momentum, if you will, or uh, you know, of achieving very small things. Um, it's not dissimilar to what people do in nutrition coaching or uh strength training. You want to get a series of small achievements, small actions that pile up suddenly feel like a big deal when you've got enough of them assembled. And so that's that's the way that I take my clients through that.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Right. So how do you eat an alpha? One bite at a time. One bite at a time. That's right. Um, if you could leave one message for high-achieving leaders who feel just maybe a little lost momentum.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

One of the things that I think was the biggest mistake in my career was never even contemplating the value that it would have been to my career had I sought counsel, had I sought a neutral, confidential thinking partner. It never even occurred to me. I was so, you know, I was high achieving and so grounded, wired in my own ability to solve problems and my using my own judgment to get there, it actually didn't even occur to me until it was too late. And it cost me. So I think the thing I would say to executives and high achievers is don't underestimate the value of having someone neutral in your camp. It's a real competitive advantage. And sometimes when you're that high achieving, it doesn't even cross your mind.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Because your your abilities have gotten you that far. Yeah. Exactly. Relying on yourself.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

You've relied on yourself, and that's worked.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

You know, but um still you feel like you've kind of done it.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, people that are high achieving are usually um, they're problem solvers, they're strategies usually. Um, they are get stuff done kind of people. And sometimes it's okay to not have to do that all alone.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Yeah, yeah. Now, a lot of the organizations that I've worked with, maybe the last 13 years of my career of working for other people, the people um at the top of the organization were much more aware and you know they would get coaching for their, you know, rising executives and the ones that were already, you know, established executives. So a good organization will do that for you.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

But a lot don't. A lot don't. And so then it's up to you as an individual to decide what is possible for me if I had someone who was a trusted colleague who's been there in the rooms that you're in. What more would be possible for me? Exactly. What more could I achieve, or what more impact could I have?

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Yeah, and it helps with the learning curve. You don't have to learn everything. You know, by trial and error, you can work with someone and they can share different insight. They can help you learn outside of the bounds of your um company and work sphere so that you aren't failing. You know, you have a little more ammunition to actually come into the room and make some wiser decisions. Absolutely. Uh um more effective contributor. So, I mean, there's lots of um obviously advantages to coaching. I, you know, do my own part with career coaching. So um I think that with what is going on, I think people will be doing more coaching. I think they'll realize it's another avenue for them to figure out, especially now, what this evolution of business is. What do I want to do, and how do I get there? And for every level, there's the right coach. So how do listeners get in touch with you if they want to learn more about you and your coaching programs?

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Yeah. The best way to find me is at thegavgroup.com. That's the name of our company, thuggavgroup.com. Um, they can find me there or Corinne at thegavgroup.com is another way to email me directly. If you come to the website and you fill out the contact form, that comes directly to me. There's no sequence afterwards. It's you're just communicating with me. Get into conversation.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

All right, wonderful. Well, Corinne, it's been my pleasure to speak with you this morning.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Same, Cindy. It's been my pleasure. I've thoroughly enjoyed this. I want to thank you for being an outstanding host.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate that too. All right, well, I will allow you to get um on with your day. And um just thanks so much for being here. I think that you shared, especially for the um more senior people that I am uh have as listeners and are in within my circle, it's it's a real helpful conversation to have. You're so welcome. I was pleased to be here. Okay, I'm gonna describe someone, and I want to know if it reminds you of someone, maybe you. You've been looking for a job for a while. You're a strong leader with years of experience, but your job searches stalled. You're frustrated, you're not getting interviews, or maybe you are getting interviews, and the interviews that you're receiving, you're not doing a good job in them. You walk away and they didn't go as you expected. Now each time this happens, it chips away at your confidence. You're losing valuable time and you're scared. Scared that you're gonna have to settle for a job that's beneath your capabilities. If this is you, you need clarity. Now, if you want a resume and a LinkedIn profile that finally sound like you, that come across clear, confident, and differentiated. If you want to do resumes, pardon me, if you want to do interviews where you can speak about your leadership, impact, and strengths without second guessing yourself. Or maybe you want recruiters reaching out because your positioning is sharp and compelling and draws them in. What about doing a job search that feels structured instead of scattered, strategic, and aligned with your goals? If you're ready for that kind of clarity, contact me on LinkedIn and put in the keyword clarity and I'll reach out to you and we'll figure out what next steps are, okay? Now, I want to thank you for listening because your support's a blessing. Now, if you enjoyed the podcast, give us a positive rating on Apple. And remember, new podcasts are released every two weeks on the first and third Wednesdays. And share this with your friends, please. Now, before you go, let's speak victory over you. No matter what it feels like, you've got a bright future. Good breaks are looking for you, and new doors are about to open. But one thing you have to do is to believe it. Believe it, believe it, believe it. Now, until next time, take care.