Larry Linne - Earning the Right to Elite Performance

Welcome Larry Linne to The Bosshole® Transformation Nation!  As an entrepreneur, coach, and author, Larry walks us through some of the critical tools available in his book Leading Performance ... Because it Can't Be Managed.  Add this episode to your foundational tools for being an effective leader.

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Transcript

Sara: 0:06

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Bosshole Chronicles. Oh, excitement about our guest today. Let me tell you a little bit about Larry Linne. He's a thought leader, a business owner, business builder, executive coach. I met Larry through collegiate sports. Actually, he grew up in Midland, Texas. He went to the Friday Night Lights High School, played football there. He also played in the NFL. That's just a little bit about Larry's background. Worked in corporate America, rose to the top very quickly. But what you'll notice in the conversation we have with Larry today are the things that he emphasizes. To win and get results are not the things we typically think about, not the command and control. He wrote a couple of great books, "ake the noise go away, brand aid. Today we're going to talk a little bit about leading performance. That can't be managed one of his most popular books. You will be enlivened and enriched by Larry's approach. Some unique twists to things that are very commonly known in the business world today. So let's dig in.

John: 1:16

The Bosshole Chronicles are brought to you by Real Good Ventures, a talent optimization firm helping organizations diagnose their most critical people and execution issues with world-class analytics. Make sure to check out all the resources in the show notes and be sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode.

Sara: 1:39

Hey, Larry, welcome to the podcast.

Larry Linne: 1:41

Thank you so much, glad to be here and looking forward to connecting with you guys for a half an hour or so.

Sara: 1:48

I find it fascinating when I encounter a person like you, Larry, and dive in to try to understand the impact you're having on the world, and then I think, okay, we got to talk to this guy, we have to get him on the podcast. You have made a career of building things building people, helping to shape performance, helping people who are responsible to shape performance. To do that, we understand a lot about what you do. What we'd like to hear first-hand and have our listeners hear firsthand from you, Larry, what are some of the key ideas that you teach about that you help your clients understand and develop in their work?

Larry Linne: 2:29

Well, first of all, me trying to figure out myself is a big challenge. My wife reminds me frequently that someday she's going to really truly understand who I am. The challenge of three things and the challenge of figuring out what I teach, or early in my career I became so interested in the world of business, but more importantly the world of human behavior and the behavioral sciences of the predictability of people, but yet the irrationality of people and trying to understand how those predictability components and irrationality together work towards building successful businesses, successful leaders, etc. And so by studying those things, trying to understand them, on my own observations, I've created an intellectual property over the last 25 years. Every time I see something, I try to build a process around it, or I build a language around it, or I'll build a training around it, and that's what I define as the intellectual property. And in doing that I have probably I think we're just over 700 pieces of intellectual property. So when you say gosh, we want to know what the two or three things are, or what are the things that you teach.

Larry Linne: 3:45

That's complex in itself, because I could go through my library for hours and hours to try to figure out what's the most impactful thing and the reality is the most impactful thing is the one thing that might move somebody to become better and get a better result. Ultimately, though, I would tell you, no matter what I do and all the intellectual property I've created, I don't really care about the stuff or the tools or the resources. What I care about is seeing people change, and I love watching human beings become better, because they learn something about themselves. They learn about something that's possible, that they didn't know existed before, and they find a path to get there. The light comes on, whatever the terminology, but I love results. I'm a person that's driven on results myself, and I love seeing people get results, so good luck to you today trying to find some things that are the most important thing. Hopefully, we'll give you something of value.

Sara: 4:40

Right, that's good. There's a lot going on in the world of business, in the world in general. The climate and the dynamics in the market today, compared to five or 10 years ago, completely different. Are you talking or training differently? Are you reemphasizing certain principles, certain pieces of your intellectual property to help leaders cope with today's demands and pressures?

Larry Linne: 5:07

Everything in application can be unique to today's times, and you have to be relative in your communication so people can understand today. But I would also suggest that at least the majority of the things that I've experienced or are seen to be effective in the world of business are core principles that I think stand the test of time and again. Maybe that's because I have some core principles about really caring about people, respecting people. I know, though, a lot of business principles from years past command and control, a lot more top down mindset. I never had that, so I can't say that I've changed to this.

Larry Linne: 5:52

I've just always believed that each human being is unique. I think each human being is a person that has been developed based on their experiences, their education, their time. Whenever we get to a place, to where we understand the complexity or that people are complex, we're going to be a lot more successful at helping lead them, guide them, support them, bring them to a point of happiness, versus trying to put them in a box and being too narrow focused towards them. So I would say, yes, I do bring relativity to the modern world and, yeah, I'm looking at right now generational issues. They're different.

Larry Linne: 6:32

I mean, we see some new generational things that we've not seen before. We see people dealing with different mindset of a relationship with work than we've seen in the past. I mean, I'm 61 years old my generation, when we went to work, we were thankful for a job. We came to work and the relationship we had with work was loyalty, appreciation for the job and a commitment to it. And you talk to anybody my age and it'll take you about two minutes to find out what they do for a living, because they value themselves. Their value is based on what they do for a living and what they own.

Larry Linne: 7:09

You talk to some of the people that are newer generation today. You can talk to them for two days and not find out what they do for a living, because the relationship with work is different. And the relationship with work for them is personal growth, personal development, creating value, doing something important in life or contributing to what they do in life. So the relationship with work is so different. You have to speak to those things in the modern world if you're teaching, but the principles that I teach are still the same. It's just the application and understanding the environment that we're in.

John: 7:43

Larry, if I could pick up on the topic of command and control, because that has been a steady theme throughout the episodes, consistently for the last couple of years, that the world of work, which is always evolving. I've always been sort of fascinated by the whole idea of change management because it's just constant. So let's navigate it, let's be ready for it. However, when it comes to the command and control mindset of managing people, I think we are realizing that there's a legacy of that and we're trying to break from that because it isn't, it isn't built for today's workforce. And I'm not saying total abandonment.

John: 8:29

There are some things that are beneficial because you and I are about the same age. I totally get what you're talking about and yet at the same time, the idea of trust and autonomy which are emerging workforce really desires and connection is foreign to those people that came up through command and control. You didn't have a lot of that. I did have some of that. But for the managers and supervisors listening out there to keep them out of the Boss hole Zone, what advice would you give them for recognizing that perhaps they're sort of trapped by this command and control mental map and how to break free from it?

Larry Linne: 9:08

When you look at a lot of human behavior, where people fail in relationships, where people fail in personal growth, you can go back to identify that they just weren't given the tools to be successful, so they don't have the tool to draw on to stop drinking. Or they don't have the tool to draw on whenever they're frustrated with a child and they don't know how to get a better behavior out of the child. So their only tool is scream at them or yell at them or hit them or whatever, and so usually it's the lack of tools that keep us from being able to develop and I think that's what we're dealing with here is people that learned command and control. If I can demand things, threaten things, oversee, control exactly the way you do things and how you do it, if that's all I know and also you tell me I've got to do it different. You can't just tell me to do it different. You can't inform me with energy and excitement. You've got to give me the tools, and I believe that's where most people are struggling with.

Larry Linne: 10:17

Okay, I hear this command and control is dead. I understand most employees don't want to work in a command and control environment. They want flexibility, they want freedom. There are a lot of things that they want to be able to contribute in the workforce.

Larry Linne: 10:30

Command and control is dead or dying, but you're not giving me the tools, you're just telling me to do something different, and so that's one of the reasons I wrote "leading performance because it can't be managed is, there are some tools in there, and one of the tools that I believe is necessary is clarity. If you're going to go from telling somebody every detail of what to do, monitoring it, managing it, overseeing it and controlling how they do it if you've got to move away from that, then the one piece that's necessary is the person has to have clarity of what's expected objectively, to know exactly what outcomes you're looking for, and I don't really care how you get there then, as long as it's moral and is doing the right thing Legal, yeah, to do culture right and culturally aligned, et cetera, but that's even part of it.

Larry Linne: 11:24

I need to be clear about our culture. I need to be clear about our beliefs, I need to be clear about our behaviors and I need to be clear about the outcomes and results that I expect in the job. Now what happens is I also have to shift my role as a manager from being this monitoring, oversight, demanding person to I've given you the expectations, it's very, very clear to the outcomes. Now my role is to meet with you on a regular basis and help, coach you, support you, guide you, train you. Those are the tools that I have to shift to is being a teacher and being a mentor and being a coach and supporting somebody. They know the outcomes. I've been doing this for 20 plus years.

Larry Linne: 12:10

When I meet with my team, my individuals or the group, they are telling me the outcomes with evidence that they're getting based on the expectations that I've given or that we've come to agreement on, and there are expectations that are going to help us be successful. But they know the expectation. They come to me and say, Larry, I'm falling short here. I'm meeting this objective, I'm exceeding this objective. They know what it is. They're communicating it to me. They don't have to wait for a meeting to find out what I think about their performance. They know it. So now I get to roll into oh, you're falling short, how can I help you? What can we do different? There's something I can support you with. Do we need more resources?

Larry Linne: 12:48

And so the relationship between the supervisor and the employee completely changes in this environment where now they are, the person is getting help from their supervisor, they're getting the support they need, which is what they want, and they have clarity of what's expected and guess what. They can exceed it if they want to. They don't have to go as hard as they can and hope that I ask them to jump higher. They go right towards the expectation or exceeding it, because that's what they want to do. I get to be the coach and support.

John: 13:18

Yeah, well, that's to me, sorry, go ahead.

John: 13:20

And I think, if I may dovetail on that, trust in autonomy, just so that our listeners don't misunderstand, and our managers and supervisors, it's not a free- for- all. Trust in autonomy does not mean, okay, kids, go get them, I'm not going to pay any attention. That's not it at all. Because even the most core principles of what people do need just to create a satisfactory work environment, whether it's virtual or hybrid or in person, is some level of continuity and clearly defined expectations, or, as you said, clarity. And when that's in place, clarity, equip me to do the work, support me to do the work and then let me do the work. That's trust and autonomy with, to your point, establishing yourself as that developer of other people, that coach. That has been a big message of ours reinventing the manager to have that perspective. And that's a big shift for a lot of organizations because they have never really looked at their managers as mentors, coaches, equippers of other people.

Larry Linne: 14:27

I just I love that. They're the judge. They're the judge that gets to come in and tell me how I'm doing.

John: 14:32

That's exactly right.

Larry Linne: 14:33

And in an environment where they get clear expectations. I mean, people love it when they get to see and experience. And sometimes we'll show people an actual performance review, a monthly performance review that we do in our company and it's magical watching an employee say, okay, the first area that is an expectation is this revenue goal. And here's where I'm at and I get to be complimentary and appreciative and I'm the audience, I'm not the, I don't even drive the agenda, and then it's and the thing is, we can get to things that we really want to accomplish. So one of the great examples of this really thinking out of the box is through the pandemic. We found that people were saying, oh my gosh, we've got hybrid or work from home or whatever. And you know, how do you manage people when you can't see and control them all day long? First of all, usually when they're in office, you don't see them and control them all day long anyway.

Larry Linne: 15:24

But that being said, you think you do - go ahead, exactly, but one of the performance objectives that we put in place for a lot of people was you need we need to be a team here. We have to work together, we have to collaborate and we want to collaborate video- wise. One of your expectations is you have to show evidence that you had video communications with your key partners and team members throughout the month. It's your job to show me evidence that you did that. That's an expectation, yeah, and so they have to either track it, monitor it some way or record certain things that they did. Whatever, they've got to show me evidence that they did have video intimate level communications with their teammates. Yeah, that's an expectation. I can measure that. They measure it, and they have to communicate it and show evidence.

Larry Linne: 16:10

And that's some of the key things that this whole reverse performance leadership model that we teach is that when people own their own outcomes and own the expectations, they want to get there, and they typically will, and now you just support and help them, and that's the tools that a supervisor needs. By the way, as you, probably the reason you have this whole podcast is because the majority of people are not trained how to lead and manage people very well and they draw on tools that are the wrong tools and so just putting them in a reverse performance leadership model, that alone makes leaders better, because now they don't have to give bad news. They don't have to deliver that you're not performing the employees delivering that to them. They don't have to deliver communications that they're not very sophisticated at doing. They get to show up and help people. Most people are pretty good at that and so we make better leaders just by reversing who owns the objectives and who tracks and monitors and communicates it.

John: 17:13

And we will be right back.

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John: 18:26

Okay, let's get back to the program.

Sara: 18:29

I think you're so on to something here, Larry, and I've been toying around with. The most challenged area in organizations I've seen over the years is accountability. Trust and accountability. Those are the two places where people seem to complain the most. My communication probably ranks right up there too.

Sara: 18:49

But you're talking about responsibility versus accountability, and I have a challenge with the word accountability, or just everything that it sort of implies. And we talk about being above the line or below the line in terms of energy and ownership. Accountability seems like a to me, it's happening to me, whereas responsibility, as you describe it in reverse performance, is by me. And the other thing is I think you are describing what many organizations, if not all, are chasing and have been for decades engagement, that discretionary effort that an employee has complete opportunity to share and grow and build in the organization but typically doesn't for all the reasons we know why they're disengaged, and it's epidemic. So how simple. But that then leads to my next point slash question. So it makes so much sense, it seems so simple. How come we can't do it? How come it's not happening in most places?

Larry Linne: 19:55

Well, again, it's the lack of tools. People don't know the tools to get out of the problem, and they grew up in a world where the parents dictated and demanded, teachers dictated and demanded, and supervisors and bosses dictated and demanded, because they learned that command and control it came from the military was the way to get things done. And I was speaking with a very high- ranking military official recently and I told him, I said I love military people in the workplace, but I got to tell you one of the biggest things that they have to overcome is that as a military leader, you start with a foundation that if the person doesn't do what you say, you can court-martial them and put them in prison. So command and control works.

Larry Linne: 20:44

Well, guess what? In the marketplace, here, in the free economy, you can't put them in prison for not doing what you tell them to do. So now you have to influence them different, because they do have the motivation in the military to do what's right. Because I don't want to go to jail, by God, I'm going to do what I'm supposed to do In the workforce. They can just leave.

Larry Linne: 21:02

So we have different tools to get there and this concept of what you were speaking of before, of this relationship between the supervisor and employee you are so right on. Here's what I believe is the reality. The typical employer-employee relationship is they are against each other. My job as an employee is to try to convince you that I'm really doing OK. Your job as an employer is to convince me that I am either doing a good job or bad job, so that you can make sure you control my compensation. And so employee reviews are built around that. It is a me against you.

Larry Linne: 21:40

I have to prepare for my reviews to try to sell you versus be objective You're going to try to communicate to me subjectively, and the model that I'm teaching is what if we got on the same side of the table together and we're both working together to help you? You own your objectives. As long as I own them and have to dictate to you, lord and master, of how you're doing, we're going to have a conflict. As long as you own them and they're objective, I can now be in a very safe position of being on the same side of the table and we're working together towards the outcome. And it's just again. We evolved from a military world of understanding how to get results to this new world of. Unfortunately, we have way too many people or way too many jobs for the people. So we're fighting for talent, right, and so if you're fighting for the best talent, you better find a different way to attract them to want to be in your organization.

John: 22:40

OK with that and I totally agree with that. I mean, I think that resonates with us, Larry, for sure. So this whole return to the office trend we've had a couple of podcasts, a couple of episodes on this and I have been reading up on this in the last few months and I'm amazed that there was one report and I think it was KPMG that put it out that talked about the majority of CEOs interviewed believe that by 2026, we will be back primarily In the office full time, and I would love to get your perspective on the trend, that idea. I know where I am, but I'd love to hear from, I'd love to hear your perspective on that.

Larry Linne: 23:27

We're all guessing here, but my belief is that we're going to see more and more firms go back to full time in the office only because that's all that the current leadership knows how to manage.

John: 23:40

Right, and so they're going to attract people that direction.

Larry Linne: 23:43

However, I think it's going to be a little bit of an interesting curve. That's going to take place. That's going to move that direction but then, as we see more forward thinking leaders that understand how to create the right culture, it can be successful and not have to be physically able to touch each other in the work environment to be successful. We're going to see it curve back and as new leaders and new managers come into these roles, they're going to realize that we can use video technology, we can use other forms of of engagement, using clear expectations, people owning their own outcomes. There are a lot of tools that can be used that I can prove are going to be more effective and more productive than going to an office. And when people figure that out, you will see. You will see spots of that increasing. So my prediction will be by 2024, we're probably going to see more, we'll see a trend towards more and more companies working in the office. 25 will probably be there and I think 26 is when we're going to start seeing an evolution of new leadership, new management, new innovation. That is going to create environments where we're going to start seeing less and less. Yeah, over time and it could evolve.

Larry Linne: 25:05

And my answer when somebody says, should you work from home or not, my answer is your ability to lead and how you manage the culture and how innovative you want to be. Yeah, if you want the greatest outcome, find a way to do it in a flex model or work from home capability, because it's more productive when it's done right. You cannot I mean I'll compete all day long with somebody that says they have to draw everybody in the same room to work together. I'll compete against them all day long and outperform if I got, if I have people that work from home. But we've got to do it right. We have to do it innovatively, we have to understand levels of intimacy and communication. So a lot of things that have to be done. But it takes work to get there. Yeah, I believe that will evolve and it's going to happen.

John: 25:46

Well, and thank you for that, because when you talk about command and control, my my conclusion is that there are, there are enough of the corporate leaders these days that came up through the command control that are still pulled in that direction, and I'm, I'm setting aside some of those that are saying well, we have these office buildings and we built this, you know, complex. I mean, it's not about real estate, because, because, that's - I don't think that's justification. However, I think that makes a lot of sense, but at the same time, when you have that, that that if you were brought up in the command control, the urgent or the desire to try to get people together so I can see what you're doing, I think that's we're beginning to see that. I love, though, how you're, you're sort of looking more forward and thanks for that, sorry, I just, I just want to get your perspective. Great, great I appreciate.

Larry Linne: 26:40

I can tell you that I've been in a lot of buildings and a lot of offices in my career and when I hear the argument that you know I can see what they're doing, I can observe them, I can watch their work, right, I can, you know, I can control more engagement where they're talking to each other. I've been in those offices. They pick up the phone and they call each other office to office. Right, I would rather see my people sitting at home talking on video than two people talking calling each other in an office to office on a telephone. It's more, I ask people they say, well, if they're working from home, how do I know they're working? I asked them how many times have you been in somebody's office or looked in their cubicle to see if they're really working? I've seen managers come in from the outside door into their office, work the whole day and leave. They never step outside of it, right? So I'm not buying their arguments. I don't. It doesn't fly for me.

Larry Linne: 27:31

You know one other, one other concept that I think you guys might find interesting. I teach a concept that's very offensive, and the offensive terminology is called reverse, or it's called reverse entitlement. What I do is I go to speak to the leaders and I say you know, don't you hate this entitled? You know new generation and the workforce and people feel entitled to jobs and careers and opportunities and compensation, and don't you just hate it? And boy just riles up the audience about this concept of entitlement. And boy, we hate these entitled employees. And so then I say, well, entitlement defined is that you're getting something you don't deserve, right, yeah, yeah, that's right. And so then I ask them why should somebody give you their best? Do you think, just because you write them a check every day, that you're entitled to their top performance? Go watch sports teams. Why do some some athletes perform at a level different for a coach than others? Why do some employees come in and want to run through walls for their supervisors? They'll do whatever it takes for the company, another companies that retired in place, so they're just doing what they gotta do to survive the job.

Larry Linne: 28:40

I think, as supervisors, in today's work environment, with the tape, the different types of employees that we have today, I think we have to earn the right for elite performance. It's not an entitlement and if you feel entitled that you think you should get that just because you gave him a job and a paycheck. Right, you are going to be wrong. Bottom line you can. You can hope all day long, but the reality is you must earn their performance and the earning of their performances.

Larry Linne: 29:08

Engagement, clarity of expectations, feedback, showing you care about them, development, coaching all of these types of things are what will allow you the right to get somebody to perform, help people realize what's possible, that they didn't know what's possible. I mean, I would say that one of the greatest compliments I've had my career is the number of employees that I've partnered with in my companies. That it said I've accomplished things I didn't know I could accomplish. I become things I didn't know I could become because you keep inspiring me to what's possible and those are the kinds of things that will earn the right to performance. But reverse entitlement is when supervisors think they're entitled to our best.

Sara: 29:51

That's a great twist on an idea that I think people are very, very familiar with. So I have a question. Then earn the right for elite performance. I'll say I'm a, I'm a listener, I'm a manager. I can even be a season manager. I know that's what I want. I know that's what's needed. I have no idea how to do that. I have no idea how to coach. What's my first step? What should I do?

Larry Linne: 30:19

Well, the first thing is is to shift your thinking to being all about the people that you are, their manager, intrinsically understanding them, their goals, who they are, what they want to accomplish. Do things like Predictive Index to understand people, the more you can understand the human beings that you're leading. They're unique. Each one of them is different. You can't put any of them in a box that looks like anybody else. The more that you uniquely understand somebody, the more that you uniquely care about them. You know the old saying I don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

Larry Linne: 30:56

Well, they're not going to listen to you, they're not going to take your advice, they're not going to take guidance, they're not going to follow you unless they're convinced you care about them.

Larry Linne: 31:04

You know building trust with them by continually helping them be successful. Train them, coach them, support them, love your people and they will respond and you will earn the right. But as long as an employee believes your intentions are about yourself or about the company and not mutually beneficial, if they believe your behaviors are non- supportive to them, if they believe your skill set is ineffective or incapable or the results that you bring fall short constantly, they'll never trust you, to follow you, and if you give me those four things, then I will trust you and I'll follow you. So those are some of the tools I mean. I think the reality is human beings are complex, it's like managers are complex, probably a lot more than that. But take one thing at a time and work on it and ultimately, if you care and you can show you care, you're going to be on a right path and then you'll find the rest of the tools.

Sara: 32:09

That's great advice. I can't help but think about a leadership team that I recently worked with, and they, like many other organizations, are plagued with busyness, like complete insane schedules. It took us probably eight or 10 weeks to even get a time on the calendar together. And they're not alone, and they weren't belly-aching about it either. It's like the frog in the beaker. We've been gradually turning up the heat and it's boiling, and they're just so used to it that this is the world they live in. So I think about how you boil that down in your last statement there. If you start by caring about people, that's a step in the right direction, and pretty soon we want to help some of these very fast-paced, very high-achieving leaders jump out of the beaker enough to say, yeah, I don't know how to do these things now, but I do know they're important and ultimately, they are my responsibility. I'm going to learn how to do these things. It's good.

Larry Linne: 33:06

Yeah, I love that last statement. You said they are my responsibility. The number of times I've heard managers or leaders say things like, "I can't get them to perform, they won't do what they're supposed to do I'm not, they're just. You know, I'm really upset because none of these people are doing their job or doing their.." I listen to them thinking do you not hear what you're saying? You are an ineffective leader and manager. You're just giving all the evidence that you're not doing a good job, because if they're performing, that's probably due to your leadership and if they're not performing, that's due to your leadership.

Larry Linne: 33:40

So I had a manager one time called me up and said, "Larry, none of these people are doing what I'm asking them to do. They're not following anything, they're not executing, they're not following our company's culture. They're not doing anything. I need you to come up here. It was a different city. I need you to come up here and tell them who their bosses. And right then I knew immediately what to do. I said you're right, I need to come up there. I will be up there tomorrow morning, I'll meet you for breakfast and I'm going to tell them who their bosses. So the next morning I drove. It was three hour drive. I drove up there, had breakfast with them. I said, look, I love you, care about you, I want to find a home for you. But the reality is this I'm going to tell them who their boss is, and it's not you. Oh, wow, because that's what they need.

Larry Linne: 34:17

They need somebody that'll lead them, and you just gave me the whole list of reasons why you're not their leader. If they won't do anything you're asking them to do. There's a reason. So I put him in a sales job. I took over the leadership and the role. I found another leader. But that's the reality is, if they aren't doing their job, it's we aren't doing our job. Right, right, that's so true.

John: 34:40

That just reminds me of one of my favorite movies is Remember the Titans. It's just such an amazing, and Julius is talking to the other captain, or the captain, and says attitude reflects leadership. And that's exactly what he was dealing with.

Larry Linne: 34:55

That's right, that's right.

Sara: 34:57

Well, Larry, I know we're coming to the end of our time. We will make sure that all things accessible about you will be accessible in the show notes, including links to. You've written several books, "make the noise go away, brand Aid" and you all. You've talked quite a bit about "eading performance because it can't be managed. That's pure gold. Anything you want to say about your first two books make the noise go away, brand aid Give us a quick synopsis there.

Larry Linne: 35:28

Yeah, real quick, "make the noise go away. It's the power and effective second command. It's a relationship between the first and second command. Parable style quick, easy read. It was written in 2011 and it continues to be one of the top sellers for my publishing company that published it. It's all word of mouth. We've never really marketed the book, but if, as an executive, you want your noise to go away, it has some magical ideas and tools in there that can help you.

Larry Linne: 35:58

The second book, "brand aid, was written. It's take control of your reputation before everyone else does, and it's just personal brand management A lot of things that have been taught over the years, 2014. It was such a successful book that Penguin actually picked it up as an imprint. One of their imprints did and they took control of that book, so it's done very well. But, yeah, any of the books, these are all things that just help people think differently about the world and the way they lead, the way they manage and the way they perform. Yeah, I hope people can pick up whatever they want and enjoy. They're all short. Because I write to CEOs and executive, I know what they'll invest their time in.

John: 36:40

Right? Well, that'll all be in the show notes, so everybody should go there and check them out.

Larry Linne: 36:45

Awesome.

Sara: 36:46

Yeah, absolutely so. What's on the horizon for you, Larry? You're involved in many, many things. You have many companies. What are you looking forward to?

Larry Linne: 36:55

I'm looking forward to being different than a lot of my generation, a lot of my generation. Thanks. More is always the answer, and I have a real passion to be a great father, a great grandfather, to be a great husband, to be healthy, to be fit, and I don't have to have more. So I'm coming to a place in my life that I'll continue to think and I'll continue to create and I'll continue to challenge myself. But a lot of what you'll probably see from me will be more online than live. You'll see, you'll hear about me.

Larry Linne: 37:34

I don't really care personally about my legacy. If my name is never said again a year from now, it wouldn't bother me a bit. I don't really have any of those types of thoughts like a lot of baby boomers do. What I care about is will the people that I've led, the people that I've been around, will they have their own legacy and their name be well known and respected? That's all I really care about, and even my company was. Everybody inspired me to use my name as the name of the company. I refuse to do so because I don't want my name. My name doesn't matter. What matters to me is lives changed and people's lives changed, and if I do that just through my grandchildren, I'll be completely satisfied. So the future a little bit unknown right now. But I can tell you the belief system won't change.

Sara: 38:20

Oh, that's so powerful. How lucky for your wife, Debbie, and your five beautiful daughters. That's amazing, and I know that the lives of our listeners can be changed by this podcast.

Announcer: 38:31

So, thank you.

Sara: 38:33

Thank you for sharing the gold in your thoughts and what you've created, and we might have to pick this conversation up again sometime soon.

Larry Linne: 38:40

Would love to, anything I can do to support you guys. You're doing a great job and I love the whole concept of the Bosshole, so keep me.

Sara: 38:49

Like a non-bosshole, that's right.

John: 38:52

We got a lot of work out there. So, and officially, we'd like to welcome you to the Bosshole Transformation Nation and we're excited that you're sharing this with our audience. So, Larry, this was awesome. Thanks so much, and hey, everybody, keep tuning in and we will see you next time on the Bosshole Chronicles. We'd like to thank our guests today on the Bosshole Chronicles and if you have a Bosshole Chronicles story of your own, please email us at mystory@thebossholechronicles. com mystoryatthebossholechroniclescom. Once again, mystory@thebossholechronicles. com, we'll see you again soon.