The EQ Big Five: #2 - Empathy

Let's jump back into the EQ pool with Number 2 on the list of the "Big Five" skills of Emotional Intelligence with Empathy!  Sara helps us understand what a powerful skill Empathy can be in enabling managers to be so much more effective.

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Transcript

John Broer: 0:05

Welcome back to all of our friends out there in the Bossh ole Transformation Nation. This is your host, John Broer and you are tuning in to part two of our five-part series on the Big Five Skills of Emotional Intelligence. If you tuned in, last week we talked about emotional self-awareness and why that's number one on the list, but today, following up with a close second, we're going to be hearing from Sara Best, my wonderful friend and partner, about empathy, and I'll tell you what I've always found this to be a little bit mystifying. I mean, I get it. I asked Sara about what I would consider to be a very basic definition or distinction I understood between empathy and sympathy, and she's going to take us into a greater understanding of the two, but also help us understand how critical the competency or the skill of empathy is to be an effective leader and to make sure that we are doing our utmost to stay out of the Bossh ole Zone. These days, it seems like there is very little empathy in our culture, and so we're going to be talking about how do we recognize when we deploy this skill and how do we get better at it. So let's jump into the episode and let's hear from Sara. The Bossh ole Chronicles are brought to you by Real Good Ventures, a talent optimization firm helping organizations diagnose their most critical people and execution issues with world-class analytics. Make sure to check out all the resources in the show notes and be sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode.

John Broer: 1:53

Hey everybody, welcome back to week two of our five part series on the skills of emotional intelligence. The big five and of course I'm joined by the remarkable, amazing Sara Best. How's it going, Sara?

Sara Best: 2:08

Good John, right back at you and great to be talking about the important skill of empathy.

John Broer: 2:14

Empathy, empathy. Do you mind if I start out asking you a question about empathy? And I think I'm going to really show my ignorance here, because years ago when I first got into business and I got some training and whatever, I think I got a very rudimentary. Somebody gave me a very rudimentary definition of empathy versus sympathy. And sympathy is your capacity to acknowledge that somebody has gone through something and observe it, acknowledge it or recognize it, but you've not experienced it yourself. And then empathy was you've actually gone through it and you can internalize it a little bit more. And I mean, that was about it. And empathy is so much more than that. But that's a pretty. If you're armed with that basic of a definition of either one, that's, you're really limited as a leader or or a manager. Agreed.

Sara Best: 3:13

Yeah, I think so. I think you nailed it, John. I mean sympathy, more of a feeling of pity for someone, or I loved how it was described in one source I read sympathy is our relief and not having the same problems as somebody else ,okay, but empathy, on the other hand, is not only our ability to understand what somebody might be experiencing. So it understand means we don't judge it, we see it for what it is. Experts in in the social emotional world of research, like Brene Brown, would say it's believing.

Sara Best: 3:54

That's their experience and going even a step further to say it's feeling with people. So sympathy is kind of a detached, "wow, I'm really sorry you're having to deal with that and there isn't a hook for you. Empathy means that you, without judging it or making it wrong or Overanalyzing it, you're able to believe and understand and feel the feelings of the other person. And I see this a lot, john, at a very practical kind of manager supervisor type deal. It's when a direct report is is giving you a thought or an idea and You're not paying attention at all to the thought or the idea and what it means for that person. You're paying more attention to what it means for you.

Sara Best: 4:42

Oh, okay you believe about it right. I don't, I can't imagine why you'd feel that way. I've never had that happen to me. Why would that happen to you? So empathy, oh my gosh, such a sought-after capacity.

Sara Best: 4:54

It's a word you've been hearing a lot of right last year and a half, and sometimes for good reason, and sometimes it's over emphasized or not emphasized in the right way. But starting with understanding the difference between sympathy and empathy, I think, is a good place. We would say that empathy is recognizing, understanding and appreciating how other people feel. But we have to know that it involves being able to say what we're seeing, or to be able to articulate our understanding of another person's perspective and then, in doing so, we behave and respond to a person in a way that respects their position. So I don't think about a political discussion, John. We've had a few posts. Sure, if we apply this idea of articulating your understanding of another person's perspective and then behaving a way that demonstrates respect toward that person in their perspective, Mm-hmm.

Sara Best: 5:50

That becomes really difficult when vantage points are different, lived experiences are different and the opinions of the parties are very, very different. It's easy, you know, we talk about the cancel culture. It's easy to say you're out or I'm out from you. I don't agree with you. You're crazy, you're wrong.

John Broer: 6:09

I break with the-

Sara Best: 6:10

I break with the there's no, there's no empathy in there. So empathy is an important capacity. We're taking it as our number two of the big five because it is supported by emotional self-awareness. Why? Because if you can understand the emotions you have and the thoughts behind those emotions, the why, and work with that, you're going to be better at reading and understanding the emotions of others. So, like many things, John, we say that leadership is an inside-out job. Mm-hmm, empathy is an inside-out job. You first have to be clean and clear on what's going on with you, so much so that you can step back from it and make a space for the feeling and the understanding of what somebody else might be experiencing.

John Broer: 6:57

So let me ask you this in other words, I can show empathy even though I don't have a lived experience. Is that correct? Okay, because so that old definition was, "oh you, can you have empathy if you've gone through it yourself, but today it's like no, I can still have empathy, I can demonstrate or I can activate or utilize this skill, but but not have experienced, had that lived experience as the individual.

Sara Best: 7:24

Yes, John, and do you know why? You're gonna tell me it's a choice and, if I may, mm-hmm. It's a choice to identify with the feeling and the experience of another person. Okay and I- you know, Brené Brown would say that empathy fuels connection, where sympathy drives disconnection. And so what you said was can I still have connection with somebody even though I have no idea what they're talking?

Sara Best: 7:56

I haven't been where they are right, right, yes, yes, you can and it's because it's a skill and an ability to remove the judgment, to be aware of your own ideation and bias and your own emotion. Move that to the side and appreciate and understand. Wow, this is the experience this other person is having.

John Broer: 8:16

Right.

Sara Best: 8:16

Let me try to understand it. Let me see if I can say back what I understand you are experiencing, right, John? If I could just say one more thing, can you have empathy without a shared lived experience with another person? I think the other element that we can pay attention attention to an empathy is in order to connect with you. I have to connect with that feeling in myself. Okay maybe I didn't have that feeling from the same lived experience but it's vulnerability.

Sara Best: 8:52

So empathy requires me to tune into that emotion within myself, or allow that emotion in myself, and I think that's why a lot of people shy away from it. I don't want to be uncomfortable. I don't want to feel that kind of fear. I don't want to feel that shame and guilt.

John Broer: 9:08

Yeah, which I don't want. I don't want to open myself up, I mean, like I'm scared to do that.

Sara Best: 9:12

Yeah, okay, that makes sense, yeah and you know, if we just want to be a little more practical about it, because we don't want to, you know we don't want to necessarily freak out our listeners.

John Broer: 9:20

Oh, you know, this is.

Sara Best: 9:22

This can be deep, but it's so important it's, and there are so many experts on empathy, I don't claim to be one of them, but so empathy in support of team effectiveness. Let me just say a quick word on this. When we're working in a team and we try to help our clients very often form and build cohesive teams. We help our leaders lead and build cohesive teams.

John Broer: 9:47

Okay.

Sara Best: 9:48

Simple ideas, routinely asked for and consider people's needs and perspectives and meetings and discussions. So don't just drive down the road the way you always do, but stop periodically and regularly to check in with people to see if what's taking place is meeting the needs of the individuals and the different perspectives in the room, witness people asking and listening to the answers of questions about people's needs.

Sara Best: 10:13

So when we ask important questions, do we actually stop and listen to what people are asking for and then articulate that back, mm-hmm and sit in a perspective of, hmm, I see where you're coming from? Immediate actions you could take. If you're maybe wondering hey, what is my? The degree of empathy I'm capable of showing and sharing with others, pay attention to each person around you. Why would you do that? Well, taking note of how each person feels, how they respond to things, what are the words they're using or the emotions they're expressing, kind of as a as an ongoing exercise to say, oh, I see why they feel that way, I understand what they're experiencing, I get what I'm reading here. Let's just be honest too. Empathy has a very tactical component to it. You know, if you're a salesperson, you're gonna tune into exactly what matters most to the person across the table from you and you're gonna work the angle you're going to solve for and present a solution that meets you know that the need or the, the challenge that that they present right so it's it.

Sara Best: 11:20

Empathy allows us to to read and understand even what they're not saying.

John Broer: 11:24

Mm-hmm.

Sara Best: 11:25

So we can use it as a tactical ability, like a third eye and a third ear going oh, I know what that means. That means they like, they would like this kind of an approach, but in reality it's really about driving connection. Empathy is really about moving away from disconnection and, you know, canceling alternative or different perspectives, but creating more opportunity to find alignment.

John Broer: 11:48

So it makes me think of you know, when we do, just because you brought up salespeople, um, and I know we're talking about a much a very specific skill for managers, supervisors, to more effectively grow, develop and understand their people. But in customer focus, selling, which we do for a number of our clients, we tell our participants your focus is their world. Their world is big, your world is small. It doesn't make your world unimportant, but if you really, if you truly want to understand what is driving their thoughts, their feelings, their actions, what's happening in their business, you have to understand their world and not let your world sort of consume your thought process because that you know, then we're not actively listening, we're not asking the right questions, we're not really trying to empathize and understand their lived experience, even though we may not share it, we're trying to understand that.

Sara Best: 12:46

The same is true about a boss and a director for John.

John Broer: 12:49

Sure yeah.

Sara Best: 12:50

I mean the same applies there.

Sara Best: 12:52

The way we can access this more readily and, I think, more naturally, John, is through curiosity.

Sara Best: 12:58

So I would say you know one of the most effective ways to show connection and concern and that's really what empathy is there is a touchy-feely components, tactical, but it's also hey, I can read you, but I also care about you, I care about what you're experiencing.

Sara Best: 13:13

It's to be curious, to ask questions, and to ask questions from a place of true curiosity versus judgment or looking for a particular kind of answer. And you know, let's be honest, we're meaning-making machines. So our little brains are always working overtime to fill in the end of the sentence and project what we think a person's face or voice tone or what their position on something really means about them. So if we can separate from that a little bit and just get more connected to what makes this person tick or why they feel the way they do, I think there's more opportunity to utilize the empathy. What we noticed, John, when we're working with leaders who have insights from the Predictive Index and the EQ-i assessment, we see some connectivity that might be helpful for the listeners. You don't have to have your data in front of you to know this. But for people, for leaders that have high degrees of assertiveness, they're pretty dominant, they're pretty comfortable saying what they think, they're confident in their own ideas. If they have lower empathy, then chances are they will be perceived by others as-.

John Broer: 14:24

They might be drifting into the Bosshole Zone.

Sara Best: 14:26

Yeah, they'll be perceived as somebody who doesn't care. I'm just getting my way, or the highway. This is how it goes, so high degrees of assertiveness, not balanced by empathy, tend to be. I'll tell you how it's going to go.

John Broer: 14:38

Okay.

Sara Best: 14:39

If you have low degrees of assertiveness. So some of our leaders, they're artisans and specialists. They're patterns that tend to have lower dominance and higher patience, therefore more collaborative. They like the "we aspect, they in the case of high degrees of empathy. So low dominance, high empathy means that I probably won't tell you what I think, because I care too much about whether you're okay or I'm overemphasizing what you need versus what I probably should be saying myself. So those are two common examples. I think in the workplace, where people struggle, Empathy does make- a healthy degree of empathy can make assertiveness more of a balanced skill. That's the one we're going to be talking about soon.

John Broer: 15:25

Say that again a healthy amount of EQ with assertiveness.

Sara Best: 15:28

A healthy amount of empathy with assertiveness means that I'm going to be more likely to say what I mean, mean what I say, and not say it mean.

John Broer: 15:38

Got it. Got it Because I love how, when you talk about the skills of emotional intelligence on a dial, you could have in your first example, that empathy dial way down, yeah, and low empathy, low empathy, and you come off and with other variables as well, come off as not caring Way too high. And the word I've heard you use before is enmeshed.

Sara Best: 16:03

Right yeah.

John Broer: 16:05

And not being not necessarily being very transparent or honest about how you feel, because you don't want to diminish or hurt somebody. So it's that, it's it's this one seems to be more. That dial seems to be pretty sensitive to me and you got to. You got to really be figuring out when to turn it up, when to turn it down. But you've got to understand again that emotional self awareness has to come first and then this is so closely related to that. You got to be really paying attention to that dial.

Sara Best: 16:37

Absolutely. As with all things in emotional intelligence, there are going to be capacities that balance other skills and abilities. So you know, we can highlight those as we come across them, and the other part is just knowing your natural behavioral wiring.

John Broer: 16:51

So, Sara, obviously we measure everything in the work that we do. We measure behavioral DNA, we measure the skills of emotional intelligence. We're gonna drop a resource into the show notes. That is a by Brené Brown and I think it's like only three or four minutes, but it's a really cool animation that helps distinguish empathy and sympathy. So make sure you go and check that out.

Sara Best: 17:20

But yeah, and we can, you know, as as a, as an exercise or a call to action for listeners, one of the things I would encourage all of us to do is watch a little more, tune in a little bit more closely to what's going on around us. You know, if you're responsible for a team of direct reports, even one other individual, make it a practice to really tune into and get curious about what you're reading and seeing on that person's face and their voice tone, in their body language, and comparing that to kind of what you're experiencing, but going back to them asking questions to make sure you're getting it right. No, I used to do. I used to do work with teenagers years ago and we would do an exercise where we show movie clips popular movie clips or we turn on clips of of TV shows that were very, very relevant at the time and we would ask the kids, you know, without sound, to describe what they saw going on, with the characters with their faces, with their body language, being able to read what was happening without even hearing what they were saying. And this is a skill and ability we can get good at. And they certainly weren't attached to the outcome of the scenarios because they weren't in them. So it's a lot easier to get practice that way.

Sara Best: 18:44

Maybe a little more difficult to deploy that skill when you feel threatened or, you know, when you're Not very confident in yourself, for example, or when you're not very much in tune with what's going on with you. But if you're a leader, your capacity to really dial up that radar and watch and understand and be accurate in your understanding about what's happening with other people is going to give you a broader range of alternatives or options with which you may want to respond to that person. So it's something we need to practice. It really centers on curiosity and connection and you know it's a head and a heart thing, John. You want, you have to want to to have it. You have to want to, you know, be willing to be uncomfortable to do it. You have to be willing to move away from our default, which is typically to say you're wrong.

John Broer: 19:39

I don't.

Sara Best: 19:40

I don't believe you. I don't buy into that. I don't need to understand that. I don't even want to feel that that makes sense it does.

John Broer: 19:48

That all goes back to what you said. It is a choice and as a leader, as a manager, supervisor, trying to stay out of the Boss hole Zone, are you willing to make this choice to grow your skill In empathy?

Sara Best: 20:02

That's awesome that is other people yeah thanks, John.

John Broer: 20:06

This is good, Sara. So what are we talking about next week?

Sara Best: 20:09

Next week, John self-regard, self-regard.

John Broer: 20:12

Okay, I'm excited we hit two tune in next week for self-regard. Check out the show notes. And once again, Sara, thank you again for sharing your expertise and we'll see you next time on the Boss hole Chronicles. We'd like to thank our guests today on the Boss hole Chronicles and if you have a Boss hole Chronicles story of your own, please email us at mystory@thebossholechronicles. com again, mystory@thebossholecronicles. com. We'll see you again soon.