Why Christians Drift Away from God And How to Find Their Way Back | Interview with John Murtha

How do you continue growing in your faith and avoid spiritual complacency?

In this episode of Renewing You, Jeffrey Paul sits down with longtime missionary, mentor, and friend John Murtha for a powerful conversation about Christian transformation and spiritual growth. Together, they explore why many believers experience spiritual plateaus, how to stay connected to Christ, and what it means to live a fruitful and impactful Christian life.

Drawing from decades of ministry experience, John shares personal stories of transformation, discipleship, missions, and the importance of abiding in Christ through every season of life.

You'll discover:
• Why salvation is only the beginning of transformation
• How spiritual growth requires intentional pursuit and daily surrender
• The danger of complacency in the Christian life
• Why Christian community and the local church are essential for growth
• The difference between being a convert and becoming a disciple
• How God's Word and prayer keep believers spiritually grounded
• Why abiding in Christ is the foundation for a fruitful life
• The role of the Holy Spirit in guiding and empowering believers
• How God uses ordinary people to impact lives for eternity
• Why every believer has a unique purpose and calling

Whether you're a new believer, a mature Christian, or someone who feels spiritually stuck, this conversation offers practical encouragement to help you continue growing, bearing fruit, and living a life that glorifies God.

📖 Key Scriptures:
• John 15:7-8 – Abide in Me and bear much fruit
• John 10:10 – Life abundantly through Christ
• Galatians 2:20 – Christ lives in me
• Mark 5 – The transformation of the demoniac
• Acts 2:38 – Repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Spirit
• 1 Peter 5 – The importance of standing firm in faith
• Matthew 11:28-30 – Taking Christ's yoke upon us
• Zechariah 4:6 – Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit
• Psalm 46:10 – Be still and know that I am God
• Psalm 27 – Dwelling in the presence of the Lord
• Psalm 119:89 – God's Word stands forever

Chapters:
00:00 — Introduction: What Is Transformation?
02:20 — Why Christians Experience Spiritual Plateaus
06:10 — John Murtha's Testimony of Transformation
13:30 — The Importance of Christian Community
20:40 — Why Church Still Matters
29:00 — Hearing God's Voice and Spiritual Growth
36:15 — The Power of Abiding in Christ
44:00 — The Holy Spirit and Daily Transformation
50:20 — Impacting Lives for Eternity
56:15 — The Presence of God and Spiritual Growth
59:30 — Final Encouragement

💬 Reflection Questions:
Have you experienced a spiritual plateau in your walk with God?
What practices help you stay connected to Christ?
How has Christian community helped strengthen your faith?
What area of your life is God currently transforming?
What would it look like for you to abide more deeply in Christ this week?

🙏 Prayer
Lord, thank You for saving us, transforming us, and continuing Your work in our lives each day. Help us never become complacent in our faith. Draw us deeper into Your presence and teach us to abide in You. Strengthen us through Your Word, Your Spirit, and Your people. Let our lives bear fruit that brings glory to You and points others to Christ. Continue transforming us from the inside out. In Jesus' name, Amen.

💬 We'd love to hear from you:
What has been the most important factor in your spiritual growth?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Transformation. We're here today to talk about transformation. If you understand transformation in your life because you became born again, you experienced Jesus Christ, you're gonna love this session because I've invited John Mertha, my dear friend and mentor, to really share with us the depth of how you on an everyday basis, life application, can transform from where you're at, whether you're just born again or you've been with the Lord 20 years and you're doing Bible studies and going to church, how you can transform even further in your Christian walk. So, John, welcome to be with us today. We've been talking about this word ever since you walked in and sat down. Let's talk about transformation. What can you at least identify as the framework of transformation, especially for Christians that have already been born again, already have gotten their Bible open, they've already got maybe their Bible app, they're going to church, going to Bible studies. But now there's that plateau that almost every Christian you talk to hits, and they can become satisfied there. And that's dangerous. I feel it's dangerous because there's so much potential in us if we continue to keep, as Paul says, span in the flame, Timothy, the gift that you have. So tell me what you've learned or what you can share with us in regard to transformation.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Thank you, Jeffrey. First of all, thank you for the invitation to be here. Your beautiful studio and staff. It's a blessing, really, because I've watched you for many years now. We go back way back. So transformation is a very interesting and very needed topic, always has been. I first start with our Lord Jesus. And when you look at his miracles, uh, he transforms water into wine. He transformed the blind man into a sea man, the deaf man to a it's not, it's always about transformational. Uh it just doesn't calm the sea, it's a calm sea. He stops the storm. Everything he transformed, he changes, radically changes. And for believers, we know that when we come to Christ through a new creation, we're called a brand new creator, almost like a different species of human beings. We now are forgiven. We're in dwelt with the Holy Spirit, and we're on our way. But you're right. I think just like in the in the natural world, the second law of thermodynamics is entropy, things tend to wind down uh rather than get bored organized. Yes. And so I think that's spiritually too. I think we have to keep pressing forward because it's God's desire, you know, that we might bear fruit 30, 60, 100fold. I always like a father, you're a father, I'm a father. We want to see our children as they come into maturity socially, academically, spiritually, um, relationally. We want to see them, as Paul says, I want to see you come to the full stature of who you are to be in Christ Jesus. So I think it's it's a great topic that you're bringing up for our day and time. I think it's all been like this all through the church history is how do we sustain growth? How do we live that victorious life? Uh, like our good friend Fred Corey says, and he has that whole Bible study on Friday morning. He says, he goes with that that uh John 10, 10. The enemy comes to rob, kill, and destroy, but Jesus says, I have come that you might have life. I see that as salvation, but life more abundantly. Well, how do we have that abundant life? That's that's a good topic.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

And you know, it it's interesting because you've hit some really good points already. The reality of a Christian that comes to Christ, I mean, we get so I I know you and I know me. We were like, wow. I was just talking with a good friend Tony Ballore the other day. And Tony, and I said, because I had the gift to be able to bring him to the Lord. Oh, yeah, yeah. But I said, Can you imagine us two, Playboys, crazy guys? Christ comes in our life, but what would have happened if we didn't? And number one, I told him I probably wouldn't be here myself. But in turn, the transformation, we started talking about transformation. How do you keep it hot? How do you keep it moving? So a Christian listening, going through the relationship of reading their Bible, uh, and again, I've heard this from many Christians, the Bible becomes dull if it's just being read in a literary form, yes, and not really going into the scriptures that speak God's voice to us, and then listening to the Rhema voice within us. And you know, me, I I advocate and teach journaling. What are some of the things that you would recommend to the listener, the Christian that says, you know, I want to live to my potential, but they've hit a plateau and like an athlete or in the house, they need a want to, they need a desire to to go to that next level because it's going to take some disciplines and some practical applications.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Great, great point, great question. Uh, I'm gonna go back just a little bit, my own testimony. I I was very, I was raised, I was religious, but I wasn't righteous. Okay, I always say that. And uh I my life, up to about age 13, I built my house, as Jesus says, out of house on Saiyan. By the time I went overseas during the Vietnam War, I was a medic during that time at a station in Southeast Asia. And I often identify with the Demonica Gadera in Mark chapter five. This was like the uh the worst guy ever. You know, he's he's demon-possessed, he's living in a cemetery, he's self-uh destructive, he's got these habits. Nobody can, all the the populace could do with them is chain them up, he's screaming. Jesus goes across Lake Galley through a storm, gets off the boat, ministers to this man, delivers him, commissions him. It says he was in his right mind, sitting at the feet of Jesus and and properly clothed. And then Jesus says to him, Go and tell your friends what great things the Lord has done for you. And I identify with that man. It number one, it tells me the heart of Jesus. He goes through all this suffering. You know, he goes through the storm, leaves his home on the on the Israeli side of, you know, the Jewish side of Lake Galilee, and he ministers to this poor guy that's everything against him. I wasn't living in a cemetery and so I had self-destructive habits. But nevertheless, when the Lord saved me back in 1975, I knew he saved me, Jeffrey. Okay. And just as Jesus told him in Mark chapter 5, go tell your friends what great things God has done for you. I really felt that, okay. And even to the point of going back to Southeast Asia as a missionary. He saved me. Not that he saved the world, he saved John Michael Mirtha. As Paul says in Galatians 2.20, I'm crucified with Christ. Nevertheless, I live, but not me, but Christ liveth. And the life that I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me, John Michael Mirtha. That was a game changer for me. And then like you, like you know, it's it's and I always knew I was saved for something. I was saved for others. And whatever little I could do, uh, I'll do. I can't do anything to win my salvation, but I can spend the rest of my life doing something to thank Jesus for my salvation. And so as doors would open, I would do it. And one of the things I think you find this to be true too, is you want to be around people that are going to impact you and influence you for that goal. Do you want to be a soul worker? Do you want to grow in Christ? Do you well, who are those people you're surrounded? Just like your profession, you're at where you're at now, because over the years you've gathered people who knew more than you or further along in the profession and you gleaned the same thing. We the Christian life is an active life, it's not passive. We have to say, what do we want? What are we doing here? The Bible clearly says he that winneth souls is wise. I mean, we've got something. I always knew I had something through Christ that was meant for others. So that was my baseline.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

John, you just pointed out a life application. I'm all about life application. And the life application reminded me of a great violinist. And you've probably heard the story, 88 years old and playing in Carnegie Hall. And the cleanup guy, and this came from the story of the cleanup guy, was cleaning up in the afternoon. And here's this guy, 88 years old, world-renowned, is practicing. So he, when he paused from his practice, he the cleaner said, Why would you, as great as you are, be practicing this due diligence? He said, That's why I am who I am, because I continue to get better and better.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

That's good.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

But that's the principle what you just described, because a Christian, once we get born again, that's not a one and done. Yes, for salvation, but it's not a one and done. It's the relationship of what's next and what's next. And I think it's more, and I want your opinion on this, but I think it's more than just reading the scriptures in the year or even going to a Bible study, even going to church, those are necessary. But you hit another point that I want to readdress community. Because you said that as a professional, I've always tried to find mentors and people like yourself in the Christian faith, but also teaching some that are new in their faith, which creates this, I think, transformation and expansion of our current level of where we're at in our inner walk. Yeah. It's not going to get us a better place in heaven, maybe, but it's definitely making more of God's presence. Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

That's a good point. Yeah, you know, I always tell when I'm I'm I'm doing mentoring or discipleship, I say Christianity is not a DIY enterprise, you know, Home Depot, do it yourself. That's right. And a big issue when you you started out the interview, Jeffrey, about how do we continue to grow and how do we hit these flat kind of periods of time where we're not growing or maybe even backsliding, because this astounds me is that uh believers, genuine believers, don't belong to a community. And what about and I've been in missions, I've been in missions, served overseas for many years, and our byline and going into these countries where there's very little, they're unreached people groups, is is um is reaching people, planting churches. We want to reach the lost, but we want to raise up, like Paul did in Athens or Smyrna, leadership, get the community together, and then we exit. The missionary doesn't want to be the pastor. But so many people in Western culture, we got we tend to be so independent and autonomous, and I'll do it my way, kind of a thing, that they don't do the one thing that Jesus gives us few commands, but he does say, I will build my church. And basically you're gonna be an integral part of that. Everybody's an integral part of that. New believer, old believer, mature believer. And to not do that, already you're starting off bad in terms of what you're talking about, in terms of how do we have this flourishing, victorious effective Christian life.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Well, you know, first Peter talking in chapter five talks about how the enemy, you know, you said John 10, 10, he watches the lion watches for the one who falls away from the group, falls away and falls back or is lame. And, you know, where do you go when you're really in hurting? You know, the people lose loved ones or they get sick or they get a diagnosis. And even though the James says that's where that as we persevere through those trials and tribulations, we'll mature and lack nothing. But by yourself? That's it. I don't think so. That's it. Paul was begging for some of his brothers and sisters to come and join him. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Yeah. Every every letter in the New Testament, uh, first Acts is the description of how they went out and built churches, you know, formed churches. Every letter is either written to a church, Corinth, Galatia, the Philippians, or it's written to a pastor, leader of a church. The New Test the book of Revelation starts out with our Lord Himself looking and inspecting, encouraging seven churches in Asia Minor in chapters two and three. So the church is like major, important today, and that's just our starting point. I mean, when it says repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins and then indwelt with the Holy Spirit, Acts chapter two, verse 38, that you don't get baptized on your own in your pool in the back. You're doing that in a church community. You're professing your faith in Christ publicly, and now you're being incorporated into that body. Why dismiss that when you know that's where you want to grow? People want to see your giftings because you're going to bless them and raise up your children and you're contributing money. It's going to local to feed hungry, it's sending missionaries across the sea. Why not? Why would I talk about Christians now? Why would they have they separate themselves from that community? So that's number one when we talk about growth. It's almost predictable. You will not have a victorious, successful, influential Christian life if you're not in a committed community of believers, which is the basic definition of a church under the pastoral care and authority of a recognized pastor.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

And here's what happens, and I hear over, and I know you have heard over and over again. Someone in a church has gets offended. Yes. They don't like the pastor, they don't like the servers. And so they almost blame God or package the whole church communities by that experience. And not that those experiences are happening, because we're all human in the fallen world. But in turn, what do you advise those people that are in a church that has that offense or the circumstance? What would you advise them to do?

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Well, number one, if a church is off doctrinally, that's the biggie. If they don't believe in the D of Jesus Christ, we're saved by grace through faith, the Trinity, all these are non-negotiable. But if it's, I don't like the choir or this my this fellow doesn't preach like I'm used to, or the color of the carpet, or come some sense. But because oftentimes people are looking for reasons not to believe. Just like people look for people are looking for reasons not to belong. Well, maybe I'm meant to be in that church that isn't hitting on all each cylinder. Maybe their worship service isn't where I would like them. Maybe they don't have the greatest children's program. But maybe I'm supposed to be there at that time and not give up on it. And as far as getting hurt, I think I think we've all been hurt and I think we've all hurt people. That's right. It's just the world we live in. I was my friend once said the problem with the church is it's made up of human beings, not angels. We probably have a lot less problems. True. But my point being that's that's the story of the New Testament. Almost every letter is written to a church that was going through something and needed some kind of self-correction. I I talked to my friend and I, he was a believer he was a believer. I get it, he used to say, I said, why don't you go to church anymore? He says, There's too many hypocrites. And I says, No, wait a minute, Bill. If if if you say the church has too many hypocrites and you're over here, doesn't that mean the hypocrite is closer to God than you are? He goes, I never thought of it. But my point being that we live in a fallen world, and the church is not perfect. It does, it it we it is moving us to be more Christ-like and and to and to and to bring glory to God. But in that process, there there's healing and there's mending, but there's also encouragement. Where else are you going to recognize the gifts of people? I don't care if it's fostered. Helly teaching, finance, giving, administration, sending somebody like they did with Paul and Barnabas from the early church in Antioch. So that's a big one. That's number one. As a missionary, I was director, and we used to go through the profiles of people that were applying uh to be in our mission organization. If they didn't have, if they weren't part of a church with a with a with a ministry history, I mean, I don't mean everybody's a pastor or teacher, but they're doing something active in that church that's recognized. We would just put them on a side pile. It's almost like you're going to apply into college and never graduate from high school. You just think it happened. So that's a biggie. That's number one. Uh that's that's the community. The other is your own individual self. I mean, after all this said and done, we come to Christ alone, we're going to stand before Christ alone. Uh we're responsible for our own sanctification or lack thereof. And if we make that decision to do that, that what we're involved is the greatest enterprise this this universe has ever seen. It's it's cosmic and implications. We're dealing with eternal matters, eternal word of God, Jesus, the eternal souls of men and women. So we're very serious about, but but through that you're going to have joy and enjoyment, and you're going to meet people like all around the world. And so I've been blessed in that way. But back to your point of transformation, I've seen over the 50 years since I've been, I've seen transformed lives. I mean prison, heroin addicts, the drunkards become sober, promiscuous people with a pure. Uh I I made us, I never made a saint that wasn't a sinner. And then a sinner can't be a saint. I'm serious. You could radically change a lot. Jesus can radically change the life of a person.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

You know, if you look at the the what we're talking about, transformation, there's the need, as you and I know, to hear God's voice. And of course, the word of God, which is the you know, the the ultimate platform. And then having the rhema, because this is the logos that has been written and anointed by God. Now the Rhema, which is that voice within us. Let's go back to the example of somebody's in a church. Yes. And let's say they've checked the doctrine and the doctrine. That's correct. But it's just they're not finding a place for themselves. If they don't hear God's voice, if they're not journaling and comparing it to scripture, then they're either staying there embittered, which is the worst scenario, because they're not listening, or they hear God's voice and say, I want to take you out of this situation and move into another situation. But there's also those that leave a church because their the carpet was blue and they like red. Yeah, right, right. Because they're not hearing God's voice from the premise of direction for their life on a day-to-day basis. And I think that that's a part of growth that I know my journaling every day continues to take me. And the reading of the scriptures, tying that back to the journal, is the the level of wrongs in the in the ladder that gets me to the next day. Because we all get challenges every day, you know. And I love what you said. If you don't have a community, you're doing it alone. Yeah, man, you're you're in danger. Yeah. In danger, in danger. But hearing God's voice and knowing how to tie that to the word of God so that it's not some abstract voice or your own voice talking to you, then you really have something to stand on and walk in faith.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

And I think that's really an important element of growth too.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Like I said, you have the corporate, you have community, but then you have the individual, your own self, you know, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. So that's on you, that's on me. And where do we put ourselves to be growing like that? Um, and again, to me, uh something I have lived by, and I don't say uh this is the secret to the Christian life, but it comes very close. It's in John chapter 15, verse 7 and 8. And I think we he he just sums it up there so for one thing, what he's just talking to believers, he's just talking to the apostles there. He's gonna die just in a couple short days. Everything from chapter 13 through 70 is all red letter and it's high content. But that thing right there in the middle, when he says, if you abide in me and my word abides in you, he says, two requirements, four consequences are results. Number one, you'll have an effective prayer life. You'll you'll pray and you'll get number two, uh, you'll you'll um bear much fruit. And I believe that's the fruit of the Holy Spirit as as as far as and also fruit of making disciples and doing and then he says, I will call you my disciple. We have a lot of converts today, but not a lot of disciples.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

That's that's an important element.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Yeah, that's a very important element because that is the biggest post-Christian post-resurrection command our Lord gives is make disciples make disciples. And often we push it to the side and we don't realize that. Because if you make a disciple, then he can make a disciple. And the fourth and the biggest is uh by this my father is glorified. So you have those four results of what what is required of us, what does it mean to abide in Christ? That's huge, and that goes to what you're talking about. How do I still say so close to Jesus that I hear a whisper or I hear like almost I don't want to still get too metaphoric, almost like the heartbeat of our Lord, and then the word of God. And I tell people today the world is in, we're in a huge position now. You I grew up, I was born in 1940, I went through the 60s, but where we're at now is major uh geopolitical, spiritual, all of these things are in a big transition mode. And that's why you see anxiety and depression is such high. But I says when everything is changing around you, get with that, what never changes, abide in Jesus. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. His word, if my word abides in you, well the heaven and earth will pass away, but my word endures forever. Jesus said that. It says in Psalm 119, verse 89, forever, O Lord, your word is so those two anchor you, but those two are active. Jesus, of course, is a person, and the word of God is a living word. Get that, hold that, and then then let's see how your prayer life is going to. Let's face it, you have an effective prayer life. People are going to come to you when they're in need. Am I right?

SPEAKER_00 20:01

It's like we know you've lived long enough as a believer.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

You know, there's some people you go to when you really want you need that prayer. When I was overseas, we had a type person, an older woman, and she's she used to always, she was a prayer worker. She goes, This is kneeling down prayers, you know. But my point is, you want that effective prayer life to see results. The other thing you want to bear fruit. That's that's the one thing by God's grace and his enablement we can do to the glory of God.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

And I want to grab that word because you said it well, his enablement. Because you know, nothing more than I get instructed by the Lord over and over again is not by your strength and not by your power. Zechariah 4, 6. And he'll tell me, stop. I'll get the you know, the Psalms 46, 10, be still and know that I'm God. Because we, even in the good intent, begin to try to produce fruits. Oh, yeah. And, you know, he always takes us back. John 15 is my my pillar in my walk. And the reality of what you're you're talking about is the vine that has all the resource, all the fruit. We just hold on to our walk with him, and he produces that fruit through us, versing trying. You ever try to make somebody come to Christ?

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yeah, it's no. It's it's the difference between trying and trusting, wrestling and resting. And and yeah, because we Americans, especially Westerners, we're like the rich young rulers. Well, I do, wasn't it? You know, but all the metaphors used of a believer in relationship to Jesus are has something to do. It's like the vine and the branches, or the bride and the bridegroom, or the body. We're not everybody's not the hand of, but it's like this union, and that's the union we develop that strength. But when we do it on our own strength, I always say you can cross Lake Erie in a rowboat. You can get you could get the can up, it might take you a month or something. I don't know, you're gonna be tired half dead. Or you can hoist up a little sail and get by the rudder, and you're let that we now you still have to work to adjust the rudder and do course correction. That's the Holy Spirit. You know, let them get us and guide us, and we're gonna. Do a course correction here, but he's going to get us to uh the the destined end.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

But it's a it's a paradigm shift because if you go to Matthew 11, 28 through 30, it's the yoke. And again, I I I know you've done studies on that, and and I have too is the yoke is not that you're doing it by yourself, and it's not just Christ doing it by himself, he's working through us. He said, Allow remain in me and allow me to remain in you. And that really changes the game, I think, a lot. But here comes the next point that I think we want to talk about is the fact that in the transformation, the relationship of John 15 really continually coming on a regular basis in communion with Christ. And I think that the fanny of flame that Paul talks about is that Holy Spirit, because you know, the we we've heard this before, God is a gentleman or you know, gentle spirit. And the reality is that he's not gonna push you. I've never seen him push me. I mean, he's gotten a little loud at times on a reality. Yeah, sure. But in turn, he's gonna continue to, but if we become very intimate with the Holy Spirit, it changes the game completely. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. And I think that that's the fanning of flame that I think all of us have to just never stop fanning, you know, like a fire. You don't want it to go out.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

You don't want it to go out because other people are being drawn to that light and that warmth. Right. Yeah, and that that's a beautiful thing. To know, Jeffrey, that what you have, what how God has gifted you that draws people to Christ and points people, that's the greatest thing in the universe. You know, I mean, to me, that's the greatest thing. To know you somehow influenced the person's life. I'll give you a real life example. When I was in the army, I was a medic in Thailand for two years during the Vietnam War. And we were 18, 19. If you remember the old TV series MASH, that's what we were with one guy in that his name was Joe Pace. He was a true blue Christian, a bright light in a dark place. Even though I didn't become a believer, the his life before me, the way he acted, the way he spells the seeds that he planted. Seeds that he planted, that light panel three years after my discharge from the army, I became a believer. But I always look back on that man just lived a godly, right, straight up life. It was a bright light in the you don't know how many lives you're touching. Not on this side of eternity. You know, my friend always said one lit candle could go into a room of a hundred unlit candles, light every one, and walk out. He didn't lose any of his own flame. Yeah. So that's the greatest thing you can give somebody.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

I just I don't mean to interrupt you, but I want you this came. This morning I was listening to a teaching. And did you know that Billy Graham had a female who was his mentor? An old little nobody knows. I mean, her name is not even identified. Right. But she also mentored three other major, major ministers in in the world globe.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

And she was just a light, yeah, but led them to that to that place that God called them to change hundreds and thousands of lives. There you go. There you go. I think that sometimes what we miss, you know, because we're in such a competitive world. Oh, yeah. And you know, how the marking on the back of your, you know, bow and arrow or something, how many you got. But the reality is not about that. It's just like you said, if I could do one.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

There you go. One. Yeah. Small tugboats that lead giant ocean liners out to sea. You know, tugboat they go no credit, you know, but these are 5,000 people. Exactly. But it's those little people in your life that, you know, you just don't know. I always find that interesting. When you look at actually the apostles, all the great evangelists and the missionaries go, there's only one person, they stop the clock and say that person died. And we say, we got to get Peter and them to raise this person from the dead. Who was it? It was Dorcas. What was her ministry? A needle and a thread. Yes. We got to have her back. That's the little people. Yeah. But she was dedicated to the Lord and dedicated to God's people. So coming full turn to your topic this morning, the transformation. I don't know if some people settle, settle, and they just hit a flat spot. You know, I call it autopilot. You know, the you can talk, you can you're just cruising. But to realize we have a limited time here and we have an opportunity by God's grace to impact people and point them to Christ. But also the sense of reward. Did Jesus constantly re-references lay up treasure in heaven where rust and moth and thief don't? We're in a position to lay up reward in heaven. I think that has a lot to do. I don't want to get too far into it, but our responsibility and what God's going to show us in eternity. So it's a limited time, you know. Uh my time is passing. You know, I say it as at every uh 80-year-old, there's an eight-year-old that says, What the heck just happened?

SPEAKER_02 26:26

You know, yesterday, I don't go on Facebook a lot because I'm see our publisher, but a young woman that uh was one of my trainees way back in my salon era, uh wrote a beautiful, beautiful um article. No pictures, no, I'm in the ends of my life or ending part of my life, and I'm looking to seek the people that I've touched. And I know that I didn't do everything right, and I hope that I did some things right. But if I've touched your life, please respond to this. So, of course, I put my thing in, but as I was meditating, I went backwards the back. She was the wildest, craziest, vivacious woman. I mean, I used to have to put her, you know, in every place over time, but she trained with me, she became great at what she did in the hair and beauty business. And the most opposite person you'd expect to have taken those seeds that we planted has now come 360. Not maybe when she was with me. Yeah, and I can remember sitting in in their coffee room, sitting with her with the Bible, gave her a Bible, and it was like, you know, because she was still partying. Yeah, like we were prior to that. Yeah, but in turn, that one seed now, this is 40 years later, is coming to that awakening. Yes, because maybe she knows there's days less in front of her. Sure. But in turn, it it excited me because I mean she was reaching out really. That's interesting. Yeah, that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

You never know. You just never know. You know, it's it's one plants and you know, another waters, but it's God gives the increase. That's you know, you can never tell the wrong person about Jesus. Either they're a brother or sister in Christ, or they need to hear it. That's right. You know, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

You know, kind of wrapping things up, there was something you and I talked about before we went on the air. And it was uh Psalms 27, where David, and we talked a lot about David, but to do a program and just that story on him. But David says in Psalms 27, I've learned this after everything else. Just like Solomon said in, you know, in his ecclesiastics, I've learned this. Chapter 12, there. But David says, I have found that the greatest thing that I want for all my life is to be in the presence of in in really transforming, that's the that's the ultimate. The scriptures are there, the staircase, the rhema's there, the journaling's there. But to come into the presence, that's where the reward is because you and I know how do you come out of prayer? Yeah. I mean, I come out, no matter what I went in with, right? Dump that load and find him to lift me up, encourage me, give me the joy. When we really taste that, yeah, I think that becomes the sugar, the motivation, whatever it might be, that keeps us on the uplift of our growth.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Tremendous encouragement. What David said there in Psalm 27 of being in the presence of the Lord is exactly John 15, 7, if you abide in Christ. So those, those, the beauty of that is his work. You know, it's his, but he can empower us in such a way, and he gives us those moments where he'll say, You were like you affected that woman's life that now 40 years later, he gives you those what I call like breadcrumbs along the way for encouragement. But if people don't realize that or experience that, I think they can become complacent in their Christian life. And I guess we all could, don't get me wrong. But we we want to step it up and say, time is short, you know, in our own life or in terms of the global scene or eschatology, but we have this day, you know, we'll work while it's yet day for night cometh, you know. But I appreciate your show. I appreciate you doing here to get the word out, Jeffrey. God bless you, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Well, I'm blessed that you were with me today and hope that you re-in, you know, visit us often because your wealth, you've taught me ever since the minute I met you. And I know with the you know, the the Coreys and everybody else that you've mentored and many more, you've been a light. And I just appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Thank you, Jeff. It's mutual.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Remember that beauty and change begins within. That's always our closing quote because that's where the Holy Spirit lives, does his work, and truly does his transformation. So join us in our next episode, and we'll see you soon.