House of the Dragon S3.E5: Unbowed and Unbent

This week we discuss Episode 5 of House of the Dragon, "Unbowed and Unbent," and it might be the darkest one yet.

We were right about Cole. The man is on a suicide mission and basically says it out loud this episode. Jeff has to walk back some of last week's respect (he loves Cole, don't let him tell you otherwise), and we get into what happens when a skilled commander loses the plot completely. Poor Gwayne, btw. That man has never worked this hard in his life.

Aemond gets the most vulnerable we've ever seen him. The mother stuff, the "I'm nothing without Vhagar" confession, all of it going back to that pig scene in season one. Sigmund Freud would have a field day with this guy. Which brings us to Harrenhal: is Alys Rivers actually a witch, or is the castle just haunted? We get into why Game of Thrones magic having no rules is exactly what makes it work.

Helaena breaks our hearts again (we called the pregnancy last week). There's the caterpillar and the nightshade, which we have theories about, and the medieval Plan B scene, with some input from Kiki on that one.

Then the moment of the episode: Larys absolutely dismantling Aegon. "You were a terrible king, but worse than that, you are a terrible man." We didn't expect to be on Larys's side this season, and yet. This spins us into a bigger conversation about privilege, why Aemond is stronger than Aegon, and a surprising Mongol Empire connection, plus why Daemon might be the only Targaryen who actually gets it.

And that ending. Gold blood spilled, three marked in the tally, the account lies open. The Feast for Traitors scene looked like a twisted Last Supper, the score called back to one of the most terrifying moments in Game of Thrones history, and we have a theory about who's really behind it.

Three episodes left. It's about to get loud.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hello, everybody. Welcome to Too Much TV. Today we're talking about House of the Dragon, Season 3, Episode 5, Unbowed and Unbent. I could have sworn that there's a Game of Thrones episode titled just like this. Is it Unbowed, Unbent, and Unbroken? Isn't that similar something?

SPEAKER_00 0:30

It sounds familiar.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

I think that's the episode with Ramsay and Sansa, like the wedding episode. Like it's really not a fun watch. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, anyway, I don't really want to talk about that. But uh to get started with this episode, let's just jump right into the characters because I think that's the most fun part. We go character by character and kind of sift our way through. We'll start with everyone's favorite bitch, uh, Cole, being a bitch. Dude, okay, and we were right, he is suicidal.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah, I I had to walk back a little bit of my take from last uh episode that you and I did because you respected him. Yeah, and you love Cole, Jeff. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, we all make mistakes. Uh I I still think there's a part of him that I respect, but it is, I will say, it was difficult to have him explain sort of the reasoning behind this whole crusade and the whole uh dude, the one line uh I can't. He says Alicent will hear the songs that they're bro, bro. Damn it. It was like give it a rest, dude. It's always gotta come back to the girl. He's whipped, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

But then you then okay, this is so interesting about Cole, because he's so like how do I say this? He hates being people's like servants, right? But then he's perfectly willing to serve these women.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah, I don't know, man. I think he's got his priorities priorities all over the place.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

But uh I mean Alicent is the hottest grandmother I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

I think he definitely thinks so too. Um but yeah, I I think you were right in saying that he's a bit suicidal because he almost darn right says it in plain English in this episode. You know, in that conversation that he has with Gwen, it's like, all right, it we're poor Gwen. Poor Gwane, dude.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

He's he's tired, man. This man has been alone this hard. He has never worked this hard his entire life, that man.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Yeah, I think he had some faith in Cole. And I mean, right, you know, understandably, but Band of the King. Yeah, yeah. And he's uh yeah, I mean, he is like combat-wise, he's he's capable. I mean, he is he is Cole?

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Yeah, yeah. For sure. He unseats Damon in that joust in season one. Like, and if you can do that, you're clearly a very skilled combatant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Um Strategist, all that, but man, hey, he's my one question about the beginning, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:17

They they have that little meeting about the crossing, the river men and the stark guy, the gray wolf. And they're like, oh, we need to cross. And then this guy's like, okay, and he leaves. And then Cole just kills him and burns down half the camp. Where is the Stark man and that little boy? They should have been like 10 feet away. Uh you know what I'm trying, you know what I mean? Like, where did they go? And then later Cole is chasing him. Yeah, they just left.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

I don't know, dude. That yeah, there was a I think maybe the scene was supposed to be really chaotic and not give you a good idea of like what was happening.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

But I agree, it's a little weird. It is weird. Whatever. I mean, let's keep going with Cole then, man. He just like is just trekking through the woods. I will say the scene with the horse and the crow's foot, dah, that was really hard to watch.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

And also Cole doesn't hesitate to kill his horse. No, no, he doesn't. But I I think through that scene and through a lot of these scenes, we're supposed to see exactly what you were talking about. He's kind of losing it. He's he's he's acting to me like a man who's obsessed. You know, he's just gotten this like blind obsession with the glory of, I guess, in his dream world, you know, dying in combat. He he says that whole bit about being the greatest um warrior in the Seven Kingdoms. He's like, I will die as that. It's like, all right, dude, you're you've lost you've lost the plot.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah, dude, he's not a happy man.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

No.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

No, it's pretty depressing. He's almost like fetishistically attached to suffering. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like the it's almost a kink at this point. It's tough to watch. It's it's tough to watch. But I'm surprised that so many men stuck with him.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Well, yeah. I mean, that's but that's the tricky part is he he may be a good leader from the combat side of things. Like he can rally the troops, he can get the guys good, he can get the people going, but he's just, you know, he's it's provocative. Yeah. Gets the people going. He's got that, he's got that gift, but the problem is the the actual goal behind it, the pursuit, to me, seems it's pretty misguided at this point.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Yeah, I mean, again, I just think when he doesn't have orders, like right now he doesn't really have any orders. He's just gonna be like, all right, let's just uh let's just fucking kill ourselves. Yeah, let's just do that aggressively, sprinting at the enemy, one for one man for every 200 of theirs. Come on, man, that's not even close. Good luck. Yeah. Well, anyway, so they were waiting for Amund and now they left. And now but Amund is still at Heron Hall. We should let's talk about that real quick, because we got a real vulnerability from Amund this this episode. Like we saw pretty deep into his psyche where you know he's first of all, he's got a mother thing again, him and Alice like hugging her, and he's like wants his mom. And then he also says he's nothing without Vagar, and then he hates his older brother because he was mean to him as a kid. Do you remember that scene in season one with the pig?

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Oh yeah, they gave him the pig because he doesn't have a dragon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

To be fair, you know, Rhenira's kids were also there making fun of him. Yeah. Amy's got a lot of baggage. I think this is why Amit is the way he is, right? He is like this because of it is amazing how how someone can turn out if you bully them hard enough.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's kind of tough to watch because he he has been bullied, I think, in a lot of different ways. Obviously, there's sort of the the stuff you're talking about, which is kind of traditional bullying, but I also think he's been kind of psychologically tormented too. You know, all this stuff with the mother, like confusing these, these maternal relationships. Because remember, remember the romantic relationship he has with the lady um in the like brothel house. You know, remember he also has that relationship too, and that's kind of like a maternal back and forth. He has a mom thing like throughout.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Bro, Sigmund Freud would have a field day with Amos.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So talking about an Oedipus complex. Yeah, yeah. We we see that again now with Alice Rivers with the witch. And it just seems like he kind of has these relationships with different like maternal figures in his life, and it's just a lot of weird, kind of misplaced emotions, not really sure, but it's that vulnerability that you mentioned. It seems like when he's when he's down, when he's obviously, I mean, he's he's literally physically wounded here, but he's also like psychologically tormented here. And it's just well, he's in shambles.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

What did Helena say that he's in the fire? I I didn't quite get that. Is it some metaphorical fire? Is it sort of like he's trapped in Alice's sort of clutches? Or is Heronhall a metaphorical fire? Because you know, Heronhall was burnt to the ground, like I explained to you um a couple weeks ago. Is there something there? I mean, Damon was there too, and Harrenhall was pretty fucky. Like, is there magic there? Is Alice a legitimate witch, or does she time like bats flying really well?

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah, I I I think it's an interesting question because I think we're not supposed to know for sure. It's like we're always supposed to be. Are you just a really good like illusionist, or do you actually have some magical ability? I think some of the elements of Heron Hall that are cool, like when Amond is walking around after that scene with with uh Alice Rivers where he's like hugging her and then he's he's kind of walking around. You can hear like the sound of dragons around Heronhall. Just like if you listen to some of those scenes, it sounds like dragons, you know, roaring out.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Well they say it's it's haunted.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

That's what I mean. So it's like it almost does feel like some kind of magical or supernatural presence there.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Um but Game of Thrones has never really dealt with like a so in fantasy there are these different, they're called like magic systems. Like um Harry Potter has a magic system, right? But Game of Thrones has magic, but it's so elusive. The dragons are are magic. You know, the White Walkers are little magic. And there are elements of it, like the dreaming that Damon has. You know, they have these vi Helena, these visions, those kind of like like just glance off that magic element. Like no one can do really magic, not that I can think of. The red witch. You're gonna correct me? Oh, fuck.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

I only it only comes to mind because they're both witches.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

You're totally Oh, and Jon Snow, fuck. Oh, you're totally right, dude. I think it's just supposed okay, you're right. There is magic, but there's no system, is what I'm trying to say, maybe. It's like there's no rules, there's no like people can do it, people can't do it, right? Like yeah, uh like Harry Potter, some can, like obviously wizards can, but then muggles can't. Like, so it's kind of something in that realm. Um interesting. Uh I mean, yeah, we'll see. I mean, I don't know. I think it's kind of fun that we don't know. And I again I think that's the point. It's supposed to be vague, it's supposed to be elusive. Heronhall's the same way. Heronhall is this bizarre, haunted wreck of a castle. Yeah. And I think that adds to it a lot. Like, does Alice Rivers have the witchcraft, or is Heronhall haunted? Or is it kind of like a subtle, maybe some combination of the two?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I think you're right. It it does feel like it could be a combination of the two. Um I I I think just to conclude my thoughts on the aamon scenes, it feels like I I feel like he's getting he's kind of lost, like he's directionless. He lost Vagar. He's he's dealing with this sort of identity crisis almost. Do you think that's the fire? I think when she says he's burning without flames, like I'm paraphrasing, but it's that line, you know, he's burning without fire. That's what it feels like to me. It's like he's in this turmoil.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

He's almost like shedding his old identity. And and almost like this is so this is so bad. Like a phoenix. He's like restarting, and out of the ashes comes a new aim and without Vagar. So he has to be his own man. Yeah. He doesn't rely on the dragon. Don't fucking laugh at me, Jeff.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

No, that's good, man. That's good. Yeah, just like a phoenix, just like a phoenix. Well, she says Alice Rivers does make a point in that same scene we're talking about to correct him when he says, I'm nothing without Vagar. She says, You're mistaken. So it does feel like it pointing to exactly what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

I don't really believe her, man. She she wants the power. She wants the Targaryens, they're the most powerful people in Westeros. She wants anything. She's just gonna sycophantically tell him what he wants to hear. I guess. I guess maybe she's kind of stoking the flame flame, dude. So many metaphors already. Stoking the flames in Eamon to fight or attack Damon because she's upset with how Damon treated her. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it could, it it really could be any of these.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Yeah. No, it's all right. Well, you want to you we kind of mentioned her. You want to talk about Helena a little bit? She she's girl. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

We were right last week. Pregnant. Yes. Um, I mean, I will say Alicent will do anything for Helena. Alicent, what a good mom. She's she's great. True. I mean, really. Um and I was talking to Kiki about this with the um with that potion that they drink. Medieval plan B. Yeah, that's exactly what I called it. And I was kind of asking Kiki, I was like, what would happen if a woman took plan B and wasn't pregnant? And she essentially sh said that there would be a lot more like heavy bleeding and all that stuff. And so I'm assuming that's the same thing in this universe. I mean, I totally see why Helena didn't drink it, but because I mean she she lost one son. I mean, Helena's so sweet, she's almost childlike in her in her kindness and sweetness. It's odd to think of her as a mother in a weird way. But her son had his head cut off. Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah. And she even like she even mentions it in this episode when they're talking about escaping. She says, Oh, we're gonna use the same tunnels that the guys who came in and killed my boy used. Yeah. I mean, it's just awful, man. She's just haunted by these memories and the ghosts that are all over the place through this tormented life that she's had. And yet she still is a pure soul.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

She's the best. Interesting little tidbit on the um the tunnels in in the Red Keep. Uh of all the kings, there was one king. I I think it was the second king of Westeros. I'm not quite sure I remember right, but his name, I think, was Magor the Cruel. And if you remember in season one, Otto says to Viserys that Damon would be another Magor. So what Magor does, Magor builds the Red Keep, I think. Or he builds like most of it, I guess. And he told the builders to make secret passages everywhere. And then after they were done, uh he executes them all. So and this again has more another historical precedent, right? When Genghis Khan died.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Some people went to go bury him.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

And when they came back, though they were killed so that no one would know where Genghis Khan was buried. And then I I even I couldn't I'd be misremembering here, but then the people who killed the original people who buried him, they were killed too.

unknown 16:19

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

To like to just make no one knows where he is, man. And it's still true. I mean, Genghis Khan's tomb has never been found. So it is interesting. It's this is sort of a bit of the same thing. You know, he kills the builders, so none of the information is completely lost. So it's effective. Kind of kind of cool. But um did you see Allison and Helena in the garden? There was something going on there.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Yeah, I I had a note in in here to to ask you about this because um Helena is is teaching her child about the the caterpillar that eats nightshade. Yeah. And it's very funny to me. They they they do this really well in House of the Dragon. They have little scenes like this, and they're kind of like little seeds foreshadowing. Yeah, especially with Helena. I mean, it's all over with Helena, right? I mean, almost so many scenes with her. But she says the the comment about the caterpillar that eats nightshade that would be death to them. And then she has the very same caterpillar in her uh little like lunchbox thing later on. I wanted to ask you, do you think there's significance in that? Like maybe with the nightshade or something, is that pointing to something or just symbolism?

SPEAKER_01 17:31

I think there's something. I uh but I can't really put my finger on it. Maybe the only thing I could maybe see is that, you know, right now it's a caterpillar that has not blossomed into a butterfly. Helena doesn't she's she's the weakest Targaryen. I mean, she's our favorite Targaryen, admittedly. I mean, it's a close call between Damon and her, honestly. But she is not a threat. And not that really butterflies are threats, but you know what I mean. It it's just like she has yet to kind of reach her final sort of form, maybe. I mean, I could I could be really reaching there. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

No, I think that's a cool theory because uh a lot of the stuff with Helena seems like it's kind of symbolism. Um and so from a symbolic standpoint, I think that's a cool theory. Uh from a very direct standpoint, I just wondered if she was gonna offer herself with nightshade. Um that's just a much more direct theory, but I only because she seems pretty miserable. That was just a guess.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

I think I I again nah, I know I know something with Helena.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

I know how it plays out in the books, but I feel like they've diverted enough from yeah, from how but I don't want to for listen to the. I saw enough comments on a post, but um I think since bastards. Yeah, I know. But anyway, uh it does feel like she's pretty miserable and and she's another tormented character.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

So uh one more thing with Helena.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah, go. What was up with the moon comment? I think they're she a werewolf, yeah. Dude, that would be hilarious, man. If out of nowhere, like House of the Dragon just went off a cliff. They just be yeah, they just jump the shark. And have you do you know why it's called Jump the Shark? It's the episode of uh what MASH? What's the it was some no, not MASH, it was some famous show where all of a sudden they did a scene where the guy jumps over a shark and they were like, everyone's like, yeah, all right, this show sucks now. It's really good. Now it sucks. So now that's that scene was so bad it's called Jumping the Shark. Yeah. Anyway, oh God, that'd be so funny if you be if she became a werewolf. But the only thing I can really think of is that you know, Aegon's uh dragon is sunfire. Well, now fucking dead. And you know, the opposite moon and sun. Because if we look at Aegon is the sun and she be the moon, I like like pale yin yang reflections, where you know Aegon's a whiny little bitch and Helena's very content. Yeah, like it's it they're they're they're complete opposites. I wonder if there was something with that, but then why would she look at I I don't know. I I really don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yeah. I don't know either. Um, but I do I'm worried about the outlook for her because I think she's going through a lot, and I feel like there's only so much she can take. She seems like she's reaching her breaking point slowly here, too. She's protesting a lot more.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Her daughter. Yeah. Like she's like, oh, you said they would do this, and obviously Allison's lying her ass off to get her to because Alison knows, and I think she was right when she said that the her granddaughter would be safe. What's her name? Jahara. I think that's right. Yeah. It's very close to that if it's not that. I think, you know, because Reneira is not gonna kill Jahara. And Alison's right, they're not gonna raise a girl, little girl, to the throne. You know, if Rhaenra's having this hard of a time, you know, a a little girl like that is no real threat. So I think she's right in that aspect, but I don't think Helena cares. Helena wants a family. Helena, Helena wants to live on a farm and raise chickens, man. That's what she wants. So yeah, I don't know. I I I'm a little worried about them. I mean, clearly they tried to escape at the end of the episode and stuck down there. And I think it's gonna be one of those like did you ever watch Chernobyl? Yeah. You know, the end where they one of the episodes and they're down, and the reactor and their light bulbs go out. And then the start of the next episode, they just turn right back on. Yeah. Uh so I think this is somewhat of a similar instance. Um, but uh, we brought them up. Let's go and move on to Aegon, which might have been my favorite scene in the entire episode. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I I'm not a huge fan of Laris. But Laris spanked him, man. That was such a good line. I think I wrote it down here. Because you're right. I mean, he's totally right. Aegon just does not stop itching, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

No, he doesn't. He really doesn't. And Laris has enough of it. Uh, and Laris, I think, might be the first person who has spoken, other than maybe Alicent, Laris is one of the first people who just spoke the most direct, plain truth to Aegon's face, just without regard for if he got pissed off or any of that. It was like, I'm gonna tell you what everybody thinks, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Because Laris is I mean, dude, he has a club foot. Aegon doesn't have a club foot. I mean, yeah, he is he's crispy, but Laris has a tough time walking. Yeah, and Laris hasn't, and I will say, he hasn't complained once. He is dedicated to Aegon and and and trying to get out of this. And he hasn't complained at all. And then just sitting there hearing the king whine and bitch, he wrote he said this, he said, You whinge with a tenacity I find astonishing. You were a terrible king, but worse than that, you are a terrible man. Oh yeah, dude. It was so good, it was so good. Just slapped him across the face with it. A hundred percent, man. And he also says, like, you had the best knights, you had the best tutors. Your dragon was so beautiful, it was named after the sun itself. You had every opportunity, and yet you chose to revel in mediocrity. And oh, dude, I mean I, you know, Laris is not my favorite, but he went up in my estimations in this one.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Yeah, he um I I feel like Aegon now dealing with with, like you said, being crispy, which is difficult for him, and having to look, you know, lose the status. He's he's in hiding. It's it seems like Aegon really quickly has taken on this victim role. And now it's like he forgot all of the stuff he did, you know, growing up. The things that Laris brings up, where it's like, you had every advantage possible, dude. You and you didn't care. You trampled on it, on all the you know, heritage and and everything that you could have had. You didn't care. You threw it away, and now you're sitting here like on this conquest to you know, get it back, get your glory back, and all that. And it's like so.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

I'm I I'm not sympathetic to Aegon, because I mean Laris is right. However, this kind of reminds me of like the children of celebrities where they don't have to work hard. I mean, it's it's tough. Like I I think that that if you don't have to work hard, why would you? You should. I mean, I think you really should. I think people should put in a lot of effort, and I think that helps you grow as a person. But when you don't have to, that's a hard lesson to learn when you're never faced with it.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Do you know what I'm trying to say? I I I 1 million percent do, and I agree with you. I think if you haven't had to have the character development, the struggle, become, you know, facing those challenges and growing through them, you're just never gonna develop as much as you could, you know, if you if those things hadn't been handed to you. And I think that's where Aegon is. Aegon, like a lot of the royalty in these, in this universe in Westeros, you know, we see Joffrey, we see other people, these these young rulers in power who have never had to struggle for anything or earn, really earn anything. And then and then it's like they have they have no idea how to deal with with challenges when they face them as an adult.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

I I didn't think I would talk about the Mongols twice in this episode, but there is this theory that the reason the Mongol Empire slowly started to kind of collapse only after like two generations, the original Mongols wore clothes like made of rat skin, and they wouldn't change it until it literally was rotting off. So and they were on their horses all the time. They really worked hard for it, but then by the second, third generation, you're in your palace, you're wearing, you know, silk slippers. Why get on the horse? You know, I don't I don't have to learn this. I have this already. And I think this is the same thing. I mean, I think also the Targaryens in general are dealing with this. Rhaenera is the same way. She's kind of taken the fact that she should be queen for granted. I mean, the only one I think who kind of gets it is Damon. Because I think Damon is the only one who is like, guys, go like let's fuck some shit up. Yeah. We are the ruling class. We need to remind them. What does he say uh to Renera? You are the queen of dragons. Your strength is your legitimacy. I mean, again, dude, he's completely right. But then again, he's on that brutal side that we've talked about. He he would he would deal with this in a very different way, but it would be the death and destruction and loss of thousands, if not tens of thousands of lives.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

So we're seeing some of that struggle between Rhine and Damon kind of play out in some of these conversations they had in this episode. You know, I one the one that comes to mind is when they're sitting around that it's like a prayer table, right? That's what that is.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Like a Westerosi version of an altar. I'd say yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Yeah. When they're talking, um, when they're sitting there, it seems like Rhenira is frustrated at this, all these different, you know, different issues that she's having to deal with. And now she's she's having to deal with the violence against the you know the city watch, and and she has nowhere to place the blame, and she starts lashing out at even Damon, you know, and he says exactly what you're talking about. He says, you know, did you think there wouldn't be a struggle? You're you're a woman, you're always gonna have opposition. Unfortunately, that's just the reality that they live with. And when you say he gets it, it's like sometimes for as much as Damon kind of, you know, it is seen as the the violent one, he really gets like the full picture a lot of the time, I think. He he he does, he can see it. He understands it can see it, he understands it. Whether he acts appropriately or not, that's up for question, but he understands the power dynamic.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

Well, notice that Damon is also the only one who really goes into the city. Yeah. He's he was the king of Flea Bottom in season one. He still remembers his men. Like he also knows that you have to go down there, you have to get stuck in. Yeah. And it's not beneath him to do that. Because he knows that the little effort that he puts in there will will bear ripe fruit down the line. Yeah. Which I I don't think I mean Aegon doesn't Aegon doesn't get that. I to be fur to be frank, Renira doesn't get that either. No. Right? So not the same way he does. It's very, very interesting. And going and going real quick to finish up on Aegon, real quick, I think that is why Aemond is so much more powerful than Aegon, is because he's the second son. We're talking about working hard. The second son, there's no birthright. He's not going to be king. Right? He has to prove himself in all these other areas. You're spot on, dude. That was his reason to get Vagar, to go for Vagar at such a young age. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

He's going for Vagar climb. Training in combat, learning old Valyrian. Like Eamon literally says a lot of this stuff in the episode. But it's like he has to work hard. He had to. He had to earn it. He had to be, you know, successful in all of these things. And he worked hard at all of them. So I agree. Um, I think Damon the only the only part that was hard to watch for me is he he accepts when she's lashing out. You know, he actually smiles when she's kind of criticizing him. You know, you haven't found the the people that are opposing us. You haven't, you they're they're they're outdoing you right now. And he kind of say they're he they're just men. And she's like, then why haven't you found them? Right, exactly. But he even says as he's walking away, um, you're more than this, I think is the line that he says. And when we talked, you and I talked last episode about kind of the the slow unraveling of some of these relationships and the the wear on them, you know, the pressure on them. Yeah, it feels like we're seeing more and more of that. It's just little wearing away, you know, it's like it's just these small hairs.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Look at this, look at the small council, too. The the new Frey, the the the woman is now on the council, and she's sitting next to Manderley. Yeah. Who, by the way, I I love that guy. Every scene he's in, he completely holds his own with Matt Smith as Damon. Like he's just and the Damon with the sword next to him, just looking at them, just like, what did you say? Yeah. Also, they're talking really loud.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Yeah, when she says, Oh, oh, the whore, and it's like, what did you just say at the table right now that all these people?

SPEAKER_01 31:44

It's like I mean I do like him, but I mean he's only in a couple scenes. But um He brings some much needed comic relief throughout. And it's just very subtle, too. Yeah. Like just enough to not lose the identity of House of the Dragon. Because I think sometimes, like with jokes and serious shows like this, if they're like Quippy, it feels like Marvel. Yeah. And and and that I I gotta admit, I'm kind of over that type of humor, unless it is Marvel. You know? Yeah, yeah. So I I yeah. Um, well, let's uh do one small scene, and I want your prediction on this. Uh Bela and Adam. Yeah. They go fly. Dude, they're gonna bang.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Feels that way. Feels like in that direction.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Right. He's got the eyes for her, yeah. You can see it in his eyes. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

And now, how related are they? No, I don't want to think too hard about that. Buddy, I think they're like second cousins. So Bela Corless is her grandfather. So it's her it's her uh uncle. Fuck, it's another one. We got another one.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Or it's her like half uncle? Yeah, I don't know, man, but it is, yeah, it's it's it's very close.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

It's adjacent to the game of Thrones is wild, man, because it really makes me try to like, what are these family connections I've never thought about before? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, just gonna bang your half uncle.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Yeah. Whatever. Well, dude, I'm not even gonna think about it, man. I'm not even gonna think too hard about that one. That's just another one. DJ Khaled, incest over here. Um, I think we gotta move on to oh, dude, we have to do a few things here. Ormond. And the note. Did you read the note?

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Uh yeah, well, as quickly as I could, because I don't like to pause. I like to try to pause it and wrote it down. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

It said gold blood spilled, three marked in the tally, the account lies open. What does that mean? The account lies open? That was the so I get the gold blood spilled. Uh that makes sense. Three marked in the tally, that makes sense. Then the account lies open. I uh I just wonder about that one. Just that that would that kind of threw me off.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Um okay, from a very literal standpoint, do you think uh something to do with the bank account because their wealth is missing? Ooh. Yeah. I don't know. That's a very straightforward interpretation of it. Um, I'm not sure where I would go other than that. Um, but it does feel like, you know, Ormond has, I mean, he has these schemes and he's he's working, he's kind of moving in the shadows, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Ormond, I I think Ormond might be one of the smartest. Because he talks about the Martells where they waited and then killed them in their bed. I I think that's kind of his ploy right now, is that he is definitely trying to just wait very patiently for the the exact right time to strike.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Yeah, it does feel it does feel kind of ominous. Like he's got these moving pieces, and we're not, you know, it's kind of hazy. We're not really sure um how much influence he has. But you know what this reminds me a ton of from Game of Thrones is remember like when they were dealing with the uh the Sons of the Harpy and I think so. The the golden masked guys who were kind of terrorizing season four or five? Yeah, five, maybe, yeah. And they were this kind of like omnipresent force. You never really knew who was like involved with them, and they would just pop up and and like murder. They're terrorists. They were terrorists, they would yeah, they were they were medieval terrorists. It feels like Ormond has a similar network here, and it's really terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Yeah, like how do you how do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_00 35:58

I loved this episode for kind of the the fear that it put in the audience, and it and it lets you kind of put yourself in Reneer's shoes, and it's like, how do you deal with an enemy who you can't see, who's you know, all around, but you have no idea where they're where they're hiding.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Buddy, listen, listen, man. Ask a Vietnam War veteran. Okay, yeah. Also, also, I mean, we dealt with that in the Middle East for the last 30 years. And guess what, dude? We lost. Yeah. You can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

It's very hard to fight an enemy like that.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

If you kill one, you make more enemies because then the whole family is pissed off. So I think it's the same thing here. And I I who do you think is doing it in King's Land? And do you think it's just gonna be some random person who's organizing it, or do you think it's someone around that we know?

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Well, I mean, the it's interesting that the one that we see send the note to Ormond is the same guard. Uh, I guess I should probably use his correct status. I don't think he's a guard, he's somebody in the for like former military because he has the eyes. Yeah, he's one of the guys who when uh Alicent is pleading with the uh leader, the like military leaders who are guarding uh before Rhenira and Damon get there. Um and Alicent says, like, let them in. He's one of the guys who she talks to. He's the l he's the second in command who she talks to. I only know because his eye is weird. I believe. You know, you can check me on that, but I'm I'm pretty confident in this one. I didn't notice that. But it would make sense. A loyalist. A high tower. He's a loyalist. He's a loyalist. He's a high tower loyalist. So it it it may be, you know, some of Orman's influence through people who are loyal to the high towers, who have a network who are all still there, obviously, who can very easily coordinate these attacks without any witnesses. They're happening during the daytime. That's even more terrifying. You're never safe. You know, it's not it's not under the cover of night. These people are in broad daylight getting slaughtered.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Well, speaking of a slaughter, do you want to go to the end of the episode?

SPEAKER_03 38:10

Sure. Sure. Yeah. That was awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Like. What did it say? Feast for traitors? Yeah, dude. That sounds like a book title.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Yeah, it does. It does. But that the visuals of that, uh dude, it looked like The Last Supper. It was disturbing. Yeah. It did look like The Last Supper. And man, I gotta say, because I I have it as like one of my starred notes here. The the music in that scene, like the score, that that sound, it reminded me so much. Um, I think it's an organ, right? That's the instrument, that's the musical instrument.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

I would have to go back and remember and do it again. Let's do it again.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Rem remember when um the the scene with the wildfire, when it's gonna explode uh in Game of Thrones. No, in in the one, yes, yes, yes. You remember that when when it blows up built- yes, when it blows up uh what is it, the Citadel, like the the the thing season six, I think, and it kills the high sparrow and yes, yes, yes. Mar uh Marjorie Tyrell. Yes, that scene, that scene. I believe they use the same instrument or a very similar one, and it's the song. If you listen to those two together, it's very similar. And it's the building, like like it's almost it's terrifying because it's it's not it's not like a happy build, it's like the horror is building, and I felt like they use that in this scene too, as it's like as Damon is is looking at at what they've done, dude. Yeah. Oh okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

I'll go back and and look at that. I will say Damon was barely shook. He just kind of was like, oh shit, man. Like I will Damon really has his shit together. Do you know what I mean? Like he just walked in there and he was like, This is bad, but like I'll be okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Is that how you saw it? I interesting. Okay. We took a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

No, but he I mean, listen, he did look like whoa. Yeah. But he also he's he looked composed to me still. Like he still felt like he had it under control. Okay. But he's like, dude, this is a more serious threat than I thought. So he's now gonna have to take this even more seriously. I mean, if it was up to him, he'd burn the whole place down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Yes, I agree with that wholeheartedly. Uh I think it I I the only take I had different from you was I felt like he actually did. I think the same thing you said, he's realizing that this is a much bigger threat than than he thought before. I felt like there was some kind of genuine fear on his face, which scared me as an audience member more because it's like that's somebody who doesn't, who like doesn't show fear.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

I just wonder who did it. Yeah. I wonder if if, okay, and here's maybe my theory, Ormond, oh, the account is open. What if Ormond is paying other gold cloaks to usurp and to almost like a mutiny against Luthar? Dude, that's a good theory. Luthar's dead. So, but I wonder if they kind of got rid of the upper echelon, the loyalty to Damon Echelon of the command. The tr you know, feast for traitors, so they're traitors. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. And now maybe the gold cloaks are not gonna be with Damon anymore. So yeah. Well, this makes me look forward to the next episode, man. I mean, we have what, three left? Mm-hmm. I think we're probably gonna have one more of these sort of episodes, and then I think the last two are gonna go back to what we're we're used to, I think.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Some explosions. Yeah. I mean, there has to be. Yeah. We're not getting, you know, we're not getting a ton of dragon action through a lot of these, huh?

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Bro, the budget, man.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

I mean, was there a dragon even in this one? Barely. We see uh in the scene you were talking about, Bela and uh Adam's dragons. Yeah, in the background, I think that's the most dragons we got as and the sounds of the dragons at Heron Hall. They're pretty much taking a backseat through a lot of these episodes.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

When they were very much a lot, I I I like that. It's just use it sparingly, use it when necessary. We also got plenty of dragons in the first couple episodes, first two in particular.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Like if they don't need to be in the shot, keep them in the background. We know they're there. Even when they're not on screen, they have that presence.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

I agree. And it shows more uh depth of the show that they don't need the dragons to carry the show. You know, this is this show is m about so much more than just dragons and and action, you know.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

And if they did rely on just the dragons, we wouldn't be watching it because it would be boring. Bingo. Because it's just it would just be it's just like it's like too much sugar. It's like it's cool, but we want that we want dude, we want good writing. That's the only thing we want, man. Yeah. We want good writing.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Um I think we went through all of it, right? Yeah. Everything that I had a note on. Yeah, I think we did. Except Orm Ormond being a sore loser with that chess game.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Yeah, Ormond, that's the only thing that with the whole scheming, and if Ormond is one of the smartest guys, he's not at chess, dude, because he missed made it one.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

So But then he got mad like a little kid. And then also when when Darren says that the histories are dry, he like turns around, he's like, excuse me, did you just say history was boring? It's like oh no, were you offended? No. No, dude. I I see why I love history, I really do. But the biggest issue with history is is how it's taught. People teach the way some the way some people teach history is so dull. You can make it very, very exciting. Yeah. But some people can't. Um all right. Well, I think we'll we'll call it there, yeah. Yeah. Good episode. All right. Well, we will see you guys next week. Bye bye.