Every Day is a Food Day

Oh my Gourd, Becky: it's Pumpkin Szn

November 24, 2020 Van Valin Productions & YumDay Season 1 Episode 2
Every Day is a Food Day
Oh my Gourd, Becky: it's Pumpkin Szn
Show Notes Transcript

It’s fall, so we’re legally obligated to talk about PUMPKINS. In this week’s episode Lia tells us about the many Pumpkin Holidays, how pumpkin pie became a rallying symbol for abolitionists, and where you can find one big enough to lie down in. Then Anna asks the existential question, “How did Pumpkin Spice win fall?” and explores how food trends are really about feelings in our Deep Dish segment.

Connect with us at @FoodDayPod on Instagram & Twitter, join our Facebook Group, and check out our webpage.

More to explore from the show...
Watch Jim Cramer eat pumpkin spice Spam on CNBC.
Check out John Oliver's pumpkin spice rant on Last Week Tonight.
See what a 1,400 lb pumpkin looks like at the  Circleville Pumpkin Show.

Every Day is a Food Day

with Anna and Lia
A podcast from YumDayCo & Van Valin, LLC

OH MY GOURD, BECKY: ITS PUMPKIN SZN

LIA
00:02    
Hi Everyone! From YumDay and Van Valin Productions, this is “Every Day is a Food Day.” 

LIA 00:08   
I’m your host, Lia Ballentine.

ANNA 00:11  
And I’m your other host, Anna Van Valin.

ANNA 00:26 
On “Every Day is a Food Day,” we celebrate food stories, from our calendars to our kitchens. 

LIA 00:31
Food stories are people stories - and today, food stories are PUMPKIN stories. 

ANNA 00:36        
It’s fall, so we are legally obligated to talk about pumpkins.

LIA 00:40    
Be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode. Join our Facebook group and connect with us on Instagram and Twitter @FoodDayPod to let us know what you're thinking, cooking, and eating. 

ANNA 00:49       
And for more info and resources, check out our show notes and visit us at yumday.co/podcast.

ANNA 01:11 
Let's uh, Let's... jam about pumpkins. I think that we're gonna try to decorate or carve pumpkins as a pandemic activity. 

LIA 01:19 
 That’ll be fun!

ANNA 01:21 
Yeah, I’m trying to talk Lou out of using the machete, but no guarantees.

LIA 01:24 
At one point, I did buy one of those Pumpkin carving kits that came with a tiny little knife.

ANNA 01:32 
Do they work?

LIA 01:33  
No, it just broke. It was too small.

ANNA 01:35 
They looked like they're made of tin foil.

LIA 01:36
Basically. It's like a paper clip. That's been unfolded.

ANNA 01:39  
Ahh, I see. It's not gonna get through that rough rind.

LIA 01:43 
I could have bought the wrong one, maybe it was like the safety... like the safety scissors for kids version.

ANNA 01:47 
Do you think there's like a pumpkin carving kit for adults, you can get it like Sur le table, /or Williams Sonoma for pumpkin carving?

LIA 01:53 
/I don't know. I feel like this could be a thing though. Like a very nice...

ANNA 02:00  
This is gonna be in our Patreon, Our platinum level Patreon members are gonna get the YumDay branded pumpkin carving set.

LIA 02:10 
Yeah, it's the Ginsu of pumpkin carving tools.

ANNA 02:15  
Yeah, cut through a tin can, cut through a tomato. Cut a face into a pumpkin.

LIA 02:19
Sign up today.

ANNA 02:21 
But it's fall now, and apparently... Pumpkins are mandatory.

LIA02:24 
Yes.

ANNA 02:25 
Yeah, like Target has a section in its seasonal decor that's just pumpkins. It's like knitted pumpkins, lacquered pumpkins. wooden pumpkins, pumpkin up your space, it's fall, <effect> BUY A PUMPKIN.

LIA 02:39  
Get your pumpkin or DIE.

ANNA 03:42 
So we decided to do an episode about Pumpkins.

LIA 03:44  
Yeah. Pumpkins, I'll say The one thing is when I start to see pumpkins, it also is like a signal to me that we have now reached the last quarter of the year, and that means that we actually have a lot of food holidays that are all about cozy foods.

ANNA 03:03 
Cozy Foods. Yeah, I kept seeing that word. What makes a cozy food?

LIA 03:07 
I think it's like that little bit of comfort, it's warm, so we start to get things like The Gingerbread cookies, the turkey, the stuffing, all of those delicious side dishes, like mashed potatoes as you know is my favorite...

ANNA 03:23
I know it, I know it, tastes like /America.

LIA 03:25 
 /You know how much I love mashed potatoes. Maybe it's cozy because these are all foods that would love to eat while wrapped in a blanket.

ANNA 03:33 
Yeah. So what are some of the pumpkin holidays? 

LIA 03:37    
Ah, well there are many pumpkin holidays. And October is basically national pumpkin month. Now, I don't really know who declared that way, but I think it has been pumpkin month for a long time now.

ANNA 03:48  
It’s not a new vegetable. 

LIA 03:50  
Yeah, not really a new thing. But what's interesting is once October comes around, this whole, you know pumpkin craze happens and October actually kicks off with Pumpkin Spice Day on the 1st. Yeah, we are gonna talk about it with you in the Deep Dish. I’m excited about that. But then in October, you also have the first of 2 pumpkin pie days that happen in the last quarter of the year. So, the first Pumpkin Pie Day is October 12th, and then you have Pumpkin Cheesecake Day on October 21st, and then you have just plain old Pumpkin Day on October 26th, so, you know just to pay tribute to the gourd itself. And then you know how I mentioned there were two pumpkin pie days, well the second pumpkin pie day is on December 25th. Which kind of closes out the whole pumpkin, you know, season and it's kind of /interesting. 

ANNA 04:39 
/Yeah, it's kind of like last call. 

LIA 04:41 
Yeah, it is like /last call.

ANNA 04:42 
/Last call for pumpkins. 

LIA 04:44
Get your pumpkin pie slice now. 

ANNA 04:46 
Cuz you are not going to be hearing about this for the next 10 months. 

LIA 04:50 
Right. But isn’t it weird that it falls on December 25th, on Christmas day? Because I always just thought it would be like a Thanksgiving day thing. 

ANNA 04:57  
Yeah, I would think so too, but there’s no set Thanksgiving date. It’s the last Thursday of the month. So maybe, they can’t nail down a date for it. Or turkey was just like, no. This is my day. I wait all year for this day. 

LIA 05:10     
They’re like, do you have a hotline you can call? In case there is a pumpkin pie mistake? No, I don’t think so ...Butterball’s, like all about it. 

ANNA 05:20 
Really, there's a hotline? 

LIA 05:21 
Yes. 

ANNA 05:23          
What? Tell me. Not that I'm going to be cooking the Turkey because God forbid, you know, I can't cook. But this is fascinating. 

LIA 05:29 
Yeah, Butterball has a hotline that you can call if you have questions about your Turkey Baking roasting frying process. Like all kinds of Turkey questions. You can call them. 

ANNA 05:44 
Are there like people sitting there answering at a call center? Like Turkey experts?   

LIA 05:46 
There are people who will help you get through it. 

ANNA 05:50  
That is the sweetest, most adorable thing I've ever heard. 

LIA 05:54 
And then you know there are a lot of people are like, “this is the first time I've ever hosted Thanksgiving for my family. And I have to make this Turkey.” 

ANNA 06:01 
But it's a lot of pressure.  

LIA 06:03 
It is. 

ANNA 06:04 
But we need to post that, post that number on our social. And if anybody has ever called him and talked to them, please let us know. It’s amazing/Yeah 

LIA 06:11 
/I want to know. Yeah. 

ANNA 06:12 
Butterball is there for you. [LIA: Maybe next year] You don't have to go through. You don't have to go through this alone guys

LIA 06:17 
I felt like calling in one year. Just just because you know it wasn't. I wasn’t having trouble with the turkey, but it would just be nice to talk to somebody who knew what I was going through. Just to commiserate.  

ANNA 06:31 
That's amazing. It's like counselors are standing by to discuss your Turkey-based trauma. Get it “Turkey baste”?  

LIA 06:39 
I like it!

MUSIC 06:41

LIA 06:45 
One of my favorite ways people celebrate National Pumpkin Month is with pumpkin patches and pumpkin festivals.

ANNA 06:51 
Have you been to any pumpkin patches this year?

LIA 06:53       
Uh, you know, I drove past them. I went to go take a hike and I saw a bunch of pumpkin patches on the side of the road, and to me, that’s always where it's kind of like, yep, yeah we’re in it now. There’s no turning back. People have put their pumpkins out. They’ve formed mazes using pumpkins and hay bales like. 

ANNA 07:11   
We went to one this weekend to pick out some pumpkins, and watching the parents try to get their kids to social distance in and amongst the pumpkins was more entertaining than any hayride I've ever been on. 

LIA 07:25     
Oh my gosh, I can’t even imagine. 

ANNA 07:27   
Yeah, this is shocking, but they were failing and failing hard. All those pumpkins are covered in Covid and they are like, body slamming them, and licking them, and holding them against their face. 

LIA 07:38   
Oh no. 

ANNA 07:40
We got our pumpkins back to the car and lathered them in hand sanitizer. 

LIA 07:44
Just keep scrubbing, just scrub. 

ANNA 07:46 
2020 people. 

LIA 07:48      
Gotta scrub your pumpkins people. 

ANNA 07:50     
2020. 

LIA 07:51       
PSA, wash your pumpkins, please.  

LIA 07:55 
So there's this one, this one pumpkin festival in the United States that claims to be, quote, “the greatest free show on earth,” and that's the annual pumpkin show in Circleville, Ohio. It's a small town of I think around 12000 residents. They've been doing this pumpkin show every year since 1903, and I think last year they had like 400,000 people visit.

ANNA 08:19 
Oh my God.

CLIP 08:21 
Video about the Circleville Pumpkin Show
“You can get pumpkin included in almost anything in Circleville during pumpkin show. My favorite food is pumpkin doughnuts. My favorite food is pumpkin pie. Pumpkin pie. Probably on the sweet side, we like the pumpkin brownies a lot. For the non-sweet items, pumpkin chili, and the pumpkin burgers.” 

LIA 08:37 
Yeah, so unfortunately due to covid, the pumpkin show was canceled in 2020. 

ANNA 08:43 
That's good. Good Job Circleville. Good job Circleville taking care of your community is all public health, during a pandemic. 

LIA 08:50 
/That's right. They are concerned about the safety of their residents and other people. So they canceled the show. But you can go online and look up pictures and videos of this pumpkin show, but do you know all of those new stories that feature a person that stands next to a pumpkin, that's three/ or five times their size.

ANNA 09:09 
Yeah, it's like bigger than them. It's like the size of their car...

LIA 09:11 
Yeah, well, the pumpkin show in Circleville is one of those festivals where you can see giant pumpkins and watch a real pumpkin weigh-off. And these things are like 1000 pounds or more.

ANNA 09:20 
It's crazy.

LIA 09:21 
Yeah, they're insane.

ANNA 09:23  
Do you know how they do that? Like are they shooting it up with growth hormones? Is it a special strand of pumpkin DNA?

LIA 09:32 
Well, maybe, is this the special Giant Pumpkin? I only know about that from Charlie Brown.

ANNA 09:39 
I believe that was the documentary as the Giant... The Great Pumpkin. 

LIA 09:43 
But how people grow these giant pumpkins... I don't know, but it's become like a super competitive thing at the Circleville pumpkin show, there's this one man named Dr. Robert Laggat, I believe it's pronounced. And he has basically won the award for growing the largest pumpkin several times at this show. 

CLIP 10:02
Video of Giant Pumpkin Weigh-In at the Circleville Pumpkin Show
“350, alright you ready? You guys all ready? Yeah! All right, let's see it. Count it down. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Woah! 1,421 ½ pounds. Right there is our champion this year. 2019 Circleville pumpkin weigh-off. Congratulations.” 

ANNA 10:33  
I don't even know what to compare that to you. Is that like a car? I don't know what to compare that to. That is, then what do you do with it? Did they carve it? Do they make 10,000 pumpkin pies...

LIA 10:45 
That's what I was wondering, like what...

ANNA 10:47      
Do you like gut it and let people climb down into it, that would be cool. Oh, that would smell so bad.

LIA 10:53 
That's a lot of scooping that you'd have to do. Like scoop, scoop.

ANNA 10:59  
You definitely need farm equipment.

LIA 11:02 
I mean, you have to bring these pumpkins to the weigh-in... Using a big crane, of course. So even transporting the pumpkin there from your own, like giant pumpkin farm is an ordeal. 

ANNA 11:13 
It seems like a real investment too, 'cause you gotta get that crane/... You gotta truck that thing.

LIA 11:17 
/Oh yeah, there is like an an association, I think, for people who just grow like these giant pumpkins, / so there's... There's a market.

ANNA 11:24  
/Bet they all have agents. They all have deals with Netflix now. It's gonna be the next reality show.

LIA 11:29  
The great giant pumpkin growing, grow off, weigh-off show? I think we've got our next pitch.

ANNA 11:36 
I think we've got our next pitch to Netflix, they'll make /anything.

LIA 11:39
/Hey Netflix, give us a call. We're gonna help produce the Giant Pumpkin...

ANNA 11:44 
I bet there's rivalries. I bet it's juicy.

LIA 11:47 
Oh, you know, there has to/ be.

ANNA 11:49 
/It's juicy.

LIA 11:49  
I bet with this man who's won it several times, like the other people in the competition are probably curious, what's he been doing with his pumpkins to keep winning. 

ANNA 11:59 
I bet there's a lot of resentment. I bet there's a lot of resentment. I bet they're like, heat cheats. He has sun lamps. He makes his own fertilizer. He cheats.

LIA 12:07 
Circleville pumpkin show has giant pumpkins, but it's also the place where you can find They claim that they have the world's largest pumpkin pie. So every year, a local family-owned bakery in town is called Lindsay's bakery, creates a pumpkin pie that's over six feet in diameter, and weighs around 400 pounds.

ANNA 12:31 
So I could just lay down in it...

LIA 12:33  
Oh, totally.

ANNA 12:34 
I could make a pumpkin pie angel. Like a snow angel. Sounds disgusting.

LIA 12:39 
/So I saw a picture of... I was looking at a picture of this online and... Did you ever watch Double Dare as a kid?

ANNA 12:46 
Yes. Dig the flag out of it. Yeah.

LIA 12:49  
So this reminded me of like a Double Dare obstacle, it was so big that I felt like you could just dive into it and feel around for a flag. /But it's gigantic.

ANNA 12:57 
/Oh my God. They gotta bring back Double Dare. We can do to bring back double there. I bet they are. I bet they are gonna bring it back soon. /It's the circle of life.

LIA 13:02 
/ Netflix, we've got another thing. Reboot of Double Dare. We'll post a picture online so everybody can see what 400 pounds of pumpkin looks like and if you actually wanna try to bake a 400-pound pumpkin pie yourself. The Circleville pumpkin show actually has a fact sheet with the full ingredient list and instructions, so do you wanna know you need to make this.

ANNA 13:22 
I mean, tell me.

LIA 13:24 
Well, it's very easy. Just 100 pounds of cooked pumpkin. So I guess you could get this from one of those giant pumpkins easily, 40 pounds of sugar, 26 gallons of milk.

ANNA 13:38 
Was this sponsored by Costco?

LIA 13:40 
If it wasn't, they should be.

ANNA 13:43 
It should be...

LIA 13:44 
15 dozen eggs, only four pounds of corn starch.

ANNA 13:50       
This is so Gross.

LIA 13:53 
One and a quarter pound of pumpkin spice. One-quarter pounds of salt and 42 pounds of pie dough. 

ANNA 14:00
But how do you, how do you bake it?

LIA 14:01 
Well, I don't know, but they simply put Bake 6 hours. Cool 6 hours.

ANNA 14:08 
I feel like you missed a crucial step here guys, which is where the f*** are you gonna get a six-foot-wide oven? Do you have to build /one with like hot bricks in your backyard?

LIA14:19 
/ You have to. 

ANNA 14:20 
So who, what happens is giant a** pumpkin pie? / Does it get eaten?

LIA 14:24 
/I was wondering the same thing. It was like who gets to eat this big a** pie? Well, at the end of the pumpkin show, the pies donated to some very lucky area hogs as a nice treat. So the hogs in Circleville, Ohio, are living their best lives in October.

LIA 14:43 
Good for those hogs.

MUSIC 0:14:44 

LIA 14:48 
But then I started thinking about, What's the deal with pumpkin pie anyway, and I really wanted to know where it came from and how and why it got so popular. And you'll never guess what I discovered.

ANNA 15:03 
Tell me... Exciting. I love a back story.

LIA 15:06
 So first of all, some form of like a pumpkin pie dish existed in the 16th and 17th centuries. It might not have been the pie with the flaky crust that we gobble up today, but there are recipes from super old publications that describe dicing and cooking pumpkins and pretty much just mashing them up with butter and spices and then serving them in, in a dish. But in 1796, that's when we actually start to see recipes for two types of pumpkin puddings, which actually more closely resemble the type of pumpkin pie that we eat today, the kind of... That kind of custard filling version and these recipes were published in a cookbook called... Okay, you're ready for this title.

ANNA 15:48 
I'm ready, bring it.

LIA 15:49 
It's called “American Cookery, or the art of dressing viands, fish, poultry and vegetables, and the best modes of making pastes puffs, pies, tarts, puddings, custard and preserves, and all kinds of cakes, from the Imperial Plum to plain cake, adapted to this country and all grades of life.”

ANNA 16:06 
Holy s***.

LIA 16:08  
That was a mouthful. And it was written by a woman named Amelia Simmons. And it was the first cookbook published in America. So yes, this was the first book cookbook published here, The Library of Congress actually designates it as one of the books that shaped America.

ANNA 16:25 
That's so cool.

LIA 16:27 
So Amelia Simmons is the mother of the American Cookbook.

ANNA 16:31 
Awesome, never heard her name. It really bothers me. But that's super cool.

LIA 16:35
Yeah, so apparently, until this point, cookbooks in North America had all been published in England, so all the cookbooks that you had here, were just recipes...

ANNA 16:44 
Just English food and recipes and cooking styles coming into America...

LIA 16:47  
Exactly. So she created and put together American recipes. And so Amelia had recipes for pumpkin pie in this cookbook, she also was, I guess, the first person who ever recommended pairing, cooked turkey with cranberries, so we could thank her for that yummy combination as well.

ANNA 17:06 
 Awesome Wow That's a long time. We've been putting cranberries on Turkey for 200 years. 

LIA 17:11 
So thanks to Amelia Simmons, the mother of the American cookbook, for giving us pumpkin pie, turkey and cranberries, and a whole bunch of other things. As you heard in the title. 

ANNA 17:22 
I don't remember them all, but yes.

LIA 17:25 
But it wasn't too long after “American Cookery” came out that we really started to see pumpkin pie gained more exposure, and in fact, pumpkin pie became very political and was part of the debate over slavery. So as I was doing my research, it turned out that pumpkin pie was mentioned in various essays, novels, and poems written by abolitionists. Many staunch abolitionists were from New England and pumpkin pie was kind of like their favorite dessert. 

ANNA 17:53  
It was a Yankee desert.

LIA 17:54
It was, it was a Yankee desert. And they loved it. One of the abolitionists, Sarah Josepha-Hale wrote about pumpkin pie in her anti-slavery novel called Northwood, which was published in 1827. And in her novel, she's got this whole chapter that talks about Thanksgiving and the Thanksgiving table, and she calls out the pumpkin pie as occupying the most distinguished niche, so yeah really shining that / spotlight.

ANNA 18:23 
More than turkey? Controversial,/ I like it.

LIA 18:25 
So, if you weren't familiar with Northwood or don't know who Sarah Josepha-Hale is, you might remember her other piece of writing because she is the woman who wrote Mary Had a Little Lamb.

ANNA 18:40 
I didn't know that.

LIA 18:42
She is also the woman, the person who convinced Abraham Lincoln to establish Thanksgiving as a national holiday in 1863.

ANNA 18:48 
That is so cool.

LIA 18:50         
Yes, so for decades, she had been advocating for Thanksgiving to be this national holiday, and she was writing letters to government officials noting that the holiday could be a way to bring the country together. However, many Southern leaders at that time argued against it because they called it a Yankee holiday. It wasn't until Lincoln took office that, you know, Thanksgiving was proclaimed a national holiday and he does credit, Miss Hale, with that. So we can thank her for that. She was also the editor of one of the most influential women's magazines at the time. This magazine was called Godies Ladies Book, and I was reading an article in the Paris review about it, and they described this magazine as a cross between Vogue and O Magazine.

ANNA 19:32 
But in the 1800s.

LIA 19:34 
Yeah, in the 1800s. And just also on top of that, Sarah Josepha-Hale’s husband died in 1822 when she was in her early 30s. So this entire time when she was a magazine editor, fighting for rights, advocating for Thanksgiving to be a national holiday, she was also the single mother of five children.

ANNA 19:54 
Wow. But I love how food just weaves itself into publishing, nursery rhymes, political movements, human rights movements, and it seems like Sarah really understood that a meal, Thanksgiving, could be about so much more than just the food on the table... It was about what it meant to establish a cultural identity and one that was unified...

LIA 20:17 
Absolutely.

ANNA 20:19 
And she was a bada**, multitasking working mom.

LIA 20:21     
Yeah, for sure, I mean it’s been really amazing to be looking at all of this and reading about pumpkin pie. Because you know when we talk about food stories being people stories, and how food is political, I mean, Isn’t pumpkin pie just the perfect example of that? 

ANNA 20:35     
 Totally. This is amazing. 

LIA 20:38       
Mhmm. I mean, when I think of pumpkin pie now, I'm thinking about these women Amelia, Sarah, Lydia. I think of American cookery with Amelia Simmonds giving America an identity through food and recipes, and now I'm thinking of abolitionists, Sarah Josepha-Hale fighting slavery, fighting for more educational opportunities for women, fighting for women's rights, and more. And pumpkin pie made its way into all of this.

ANNA 21:02 
Yeah, it’s crazy to think we just all automatically eat it every year without knowing any of this back story. Without thinking about it and realizing, like it’s such a symbol to rally around. Like there is so much more than just pumpkin in it. 

LIA 21:16 
Exactly. 

ANNA 21:18           
That's so cool, Lia. Thank you for sharing that with us.

LIA 21:22 
Yay. You’re welcome. 

ANNA 21:24        
When we come back, our Deep Dish segment where I'm gonna talk about the rise and fall and rise again of pumpkin spice... 

MUSIC 21:30

ANNA 21:45 
Okay, here we are in our Deep Dish segment. This is where I get super nerdy, go down a rabbit hole about something related to our food today it’s pumpkins, and when we were talking about this, we were batting around different ideas about pumpkins, and the thing I kept coming back to was pumpkin spice. This cultural phenomenon of pumpkin spice. Ok. I wanna say full disclosure, I'm not a huge fan of pumpkin spice. But I wanna reassure you that this is not going to be a segment bashing it. Okay, I'm not here to poop in your PSL, right, I'm not gonna call you basic, we don't do that here, we love all our listeners equally, and we are not here to attack anything that gives you joy. Right, Lia?

LIA 22:30       
Right, right. 

ANNA 22:32        
My issue with pumpkin spice is not that it's quite basic, but it just baffles me, it baffles me. I do not understand how pumpkin spice won fall. It won a whole season. It's this flavor that went from never existing... I don't think there was ever pumpkin spice anything when we were kids, right?

LIA 22:57     
I don't remember.

ANNA 22:59     
It went from never existing to being just a coffee flavor to being the mandatory flavor and scent of literally everything that you can see, smell or taste for only three months of the year, and it disappears... Right? And I do not know how that happened. And I know you've all seen this, and you know what I'm talking about, but the ubiquity of this flavor that comes out of nowhere and it disappears is so insane. So I put together a list of pumpkin spice flavored or scented stuff in no particular order.

ANNA 23:35   
 ...peanut butter, chewing gum, peeps, protein powder, potato chips, baking morsels, almonds, Oatmeal, cream cheese, glade candles, plugins & room spray, Milano cookies, coffee creamer, tea bags, Little Debbie snack cakes, aerosol seasoning spray, granola bars, wine, cat treats, Kahlua, bagels, Baileys Irish Cream, English muffins, bone broth, Pop-Tarts, deodorant, Greek yogurt, shampoo, every kind of cereal. Ravioli, popcorn, jello and jello pudding, protein bars, Cliff bars, Body Wash, twinkies, Pringles, hostesses cupcakes, Oreos, tubes of cookie dough, Marshmallows, creamsicles, candy corn, hamburger, Donuts, beer, M&Ms, Lindor truffles, Poo-Pourri, hair dye, kale chips, Kubucha, dog treats, and Spam. And in case you don’t believe that one, here’s a clip of CNBC’s Jim Cramer eating Pumpkin Spice Spam on air. 

CLIP 24:36       
Jim Cramer on Mad Money eating Pumpkin Spice Spam

Cramer
“Have you had the new pumpkin spice? It sold out in 7 hours. The whole thing. You can’t get it anywhere else. 25 bucks on eBay. And you know what? It’s darn good! What? What? What are you guys looking at? 

Announcer 1 
It’s just a close up of you eating it. 

Announcer 2 
It could be a wide shot and it still could be rough.

Cramer  
Anyway, the thing is… 

Announcer 1 
Is that how you eat spam by the way? Just right out of the thing? 

Cramer 
We usually have it with forks. 

Announcer 1 
What is that called? A tub? A canister. 

Cramer 
You can eat it however you want. 

Announcer 1 
You gotta stir it? The spam juices. 

Cramer 
It’s always underrated. Aha! 

Announcer 1 
You should see the face of this right now. 

Cramer 
Cheers! Alright, listen to me. 

Announcer 1 
Mix it in with your Starbucks pumpkin spice?

Cramer 
Why not? One is better than the other. Um, Happy Little Plants is a new line that they have. I think that they have fewer chemicals in their plant-based burger. And by the way, they don’t want to be like a burger. They want their own thing. Which I think a lot of us are more into. Like, why do I want a faux burger? How about a delicious tasting thing that is in the shape of a burger. Poor David. This, by the way, can be eaten with pens. You don’t have to wait for a fork. 

Announcer 1 
Man, this is like the food channel over here. He’s eating his spam with a pen. 

Cramer 
I think I can make burgers with this. I can make spaghetti meatballs. 

Announcer 1 
You can catch Jim’s full interview tonight on Mad Money. 6 pm ET. 

LIA 24:48 
Oh! Oh my god! /Wait, he just ate it from inside the can! 

ANNA 24:49 
/Oh god. He's just eating it with his mouth in the can. Like no…

LIA 24:58         
Oh, god no. Disgusting. 

ANNA 25:08  
Oh god.

LIA 25:10        
Oh! No, No!

ANNA 25:14   
He's dumping the juice in a cup and drinking it, oh my god!

LIA 25:22 
Jim Cramer.

ANNA 25:26       
I mean, if he was like drinking spam goo in general, it would be horrifying. But, adding the pumpkin spice flavor is like…

LIA 25:36 
 But, man. Look at that stock price spike in October.

ANNA 25:42         
Yeah.

LIA 25:43 
But, September is when they launched that spam flavor. Oh! No! That’s disgusting./ That’s so gross! 

ANNA 25:48 
/Oh no. Now he is eating it with a pen. Are there no forks in the break rooms at CNBC Studios? Oh my god.

LIA 25:58 
Oh! He's just...

ANNA 26:02 
Oh! He's gotta... 

26:07 
CLIP ENDS

LIA 26:08  
Oh god. That was so gross.

ANNA 26:09 
Oh, alright. Ok listeners. That happened. That happened. So as I was saying before, and as Jim Cramer and Hormel just demonstrated, pumpkin spice really is a cultural phenomenon. So my philosophical question, or rather my FOOD-lisophical question, is: Why? For today’s Deep Dish we’re going to trace the Rise, Fall and Rise again of Pumpkin Spice and explore how its journey is surprisingly emotional and in a big way traces what we as a whole society have been through in the last 15 years. Ready?

LIA 26:57    
Yes, I’m ready.

ANNA 26:58    
Let's do this. 

MUSIC 26:59 

ANNA 27:03 
So first of all, let's establish what it is, let's establish what we're talking about here, okay. So pumpkin spice itself is the mix of seasoning that you would put in a pumpkin pie, so pretty much across the board, it is cinnamon, nutmeg, ginger, and cloves.

LIA 27:21 
Yeah.

ANNA 27:22    
anything missing from that? In there, Lia, that you noticed?

LIA 27:25    
Wait, /pumpkin spice...but where is the pumpkin?

ANNA 27:30  
/ Pumpkin. It's not there. This mix of spices is also the base of a lot of dessert-like apple pie, spice cake is the same, except you switch the cloves with cardamom, peach cobbler, spice cake, cinnamon rolls, they all basically have the same mix of seasonings, which we use as the basis for most of our desserts, right? And part of it is because, as we age, our sense of taste and smell dampens. But, these spices are strong enough that they cut through so foods with those spices in them become kind of universal because little kid likes the way pumpkin pie tastes, grandma likes the way pumpkin pie tastes, right?

LIA 28:13 
Makes sense.

ANNA 28:14 
So where it came from, this idea of pumpkin spice, McCormick spices has had something called Pumpkin Spice since 1934. So it didn't start with the pumpkin spice latte, but I think it got on our radar with the pumpkin spice latte, so in the early 2000, Starbucks was trying to develop a fall-themed drink to kinda go along with their other seasonal drinks like summer tea lemonade. I think the Refreshers...

LIA 28:39  
Oh yeah, I remember.

ANNA 28:40
Or like the holiday. Like the gingerbread latte or the peppermint mocha, which I gotta be honest, it takes all my strength to not just drink peppermint mochas all year round...

LIA 28:49 
Those are really good.

ANNA 28:40 
That's my, yeah, that's my kryptonite. So in 2003, they debuted the pumpkin spice latte to fill that slot, and it was a hit right off the bat. So talk about the first era of pumpkin spice, the era of Rise of Popularity, which is about the first 10 years, so 2003 to 2013.

LIA 29:11 
Okay.

ANNA 29:12    
 Let’s dig into why it got so popular. One really surprising thing I noticed as I was doing my research was that in all the things I read where people talked about why they loved pumpkin spice, no one mentions the flavor. 

LIA 29:27 
Oh, that's weird. 

ANNA 29:28      
We can assume that if someone consumes PS stuff that they like the way it tastes, but that’s not why people say they love it. They love it because of the feelings it evokes. And the good feelings, kind of what you said as well, like coziness, comforting, nostalgia. Those were all the words that kept coming up when I was researching this. You know the end of summer, there's a let down to that... Right, it's a sad thing that summer is over, and so it kinda helps ameliorate that let down of summer ending to say, we’re going into fall, fall means all these fun things. 

LIA 30:07 
Yeah. That’s true. We need that. We need that little /pick me up.

ANNA 30:10 
 / Yeah, we need something to look forward to. And something new to focus on. So, you know, the holidays are coming, you're gonna get to see your family, you get to go on vacation, there's fun traditions, and some of us look amazing and boots and sweaters.

LIA 30:25       
I personally /love fall wear.

ANNA 30:28
/I love it, it's my favorite.

LIA 30:30  
It's my favorite wear.

ANNA 30:32 
But the only reason that the pumpkin spice latte is associated with fall is because they stuck the word “pumpkin” on it. 

LIA 30:39 
I guess if you just were like, You have a spiced latte...

ANNA 30:42 
Yeah, spice latte. You can have that all year round.

LIA 30:45 
Right. But pumpkin spice latte day.

ANNA 30:48 
It's so funny, 'cause if you go to Starbucks, they have... You can put Nutmeg powder, cinnamon powder, sugar powder, vanilla powder, all year round.

LIA 30:56 
Guys, you can get this the whole year!

ANNA 30:59
The whole year, you guys. But yeah, The Fall association is just... 'cause they stuck the word pumpkin on it, which makes sense because you only see pumpkins in the fall like if someone shows up to Easter with a pumpkin pie, something has gone terribly wrong.

LIA 31:16 
Right.

ANNA 31:17  
Check the tomb. Check it again. It's so smart because just putting the word pumpkin on it makes it a seasonal drink.

LIA 31:26 
Pretty genius, yeah.

ANNA 31:27 
The other reason I think why it was such a big hit is simply the marketing and the fact that they limited when it was available, Right? So there's basic economic principles of scarcity, supply, and demand, things like that, but there's also a psychological phenomenon called Reactance Theory.

LIA 31:44 
Reactance?

ANNA 31:46 
Reactance Theory. So the theory is if our freedom to have or do something is limited, we experience a discomfort of that limitation that results in an increased desire to have or do that thing, that's called Reactance. So human beings like we wanna assert our free will and the whole... “You can't make!” the thing. They mentioned a really interesting experiment, which was they took two walls on a college campus, and on one wall they hung a sign and said, “Please do not write on the walls,” and on the other wall, they hung a sign that said, “Do not under any circumstances write on this wall.” And then when they went back, the one that said, Please don't write on this wall was clean, and the one that said, Do not write on this wall was covered in graffiti. Because people were like, You can't tell me what to do.

LIA 32:38 
Right. F U. 

ANNA 32:43 
I do what I want! I wasn't gonna write on this wall, but now that you told me I can't, I'm gonna write on this wall. This is a big element in marketing a lot if you see things that are like “act now, supplies are limited, they're going fast!” You wanna go get it. It gives you a sense of urgency, right? Saying that this is available in the fall, it's available three months out of the year is telling people, it's not available the rest of the year which means that when people can get it, they wanna assert their free will, which is to take it... 

LIA 33:15        
Yeah, in marketing and then in food, there's so many foods where it's like The McRib is back and you're like, “Oh s***, I gotta get a McRib.”

ANNA 33:24  
“I'm vegan, but man I gotta get me a f***in’ McRib right now.” So back to our timeline, we're still in the popular years, it continues to grow in popularity and then it really spikes in 2008, 2009 when the recession hits. Because again, it's something comforting, it's like comfort food, people were suffering, people were scared, and this thing gave them a bit of joy. And let me tell you, I graduated with a master's degree in Fine Arts in May of 2009. And if I could have spent $4 on a beverage that made me feel better about that, I would have done it. I would have done it.

LIA 34:06 
That makes sense. Yeah. 

ANNA 34:08
Yeah, so it's spiked in popularity cuz it's sweet, it's comforting, it's cozy, and then in 2010, other companies start seeing this model of not just the pumpkin spice scent or flavor, but it being a seasonal thing, it being a limited time thing, and that's when you see the list like what I rattled off earlier, start to explode. And then in about 2012, things start to get a little bit easier from the Recession, a lot of damage have been done, but people who are starting to get back on their feet, starting to have a better outlook, starting to be less stressed. In 2013, the PSL becomes the top-selling drink from Starbucks. This thing is only available three months of the year and is the top-selling drink at all at Starbucks. Insane. But as soon as that happens, as soon as it peaks in popularity, and as soon as people are less in crisis, the backlash starts.

CLIP 35:07         
 Last Week Tonight w/ John Oliver, PSL Rant
“Yes, it’s that special time of year. Where we voluntarily invite pumpkin spice lattes. The coffee that tastes like a candle. And I don’t mean it tastes like a candle smells. Pumpkin spice lattes tastes like a candle tastes. Don’t ask me how I know that. But what is strange, is that pumpkin spice foods, inexplicably, seem to grow more omnipresent every year even though there is no actual pumpkin in the drinks. Kind of like how everyone you meet calls a DJ all of the sudden when what they mean is that they own an iPad and have been to a party.... The point is, we tolerate pumpkin spice because we like the fall. It’s the best season because you get to stop thinking about how weird your legs look in shorts. That’s everyone, right. We all agree on that. But just about anything that reminds us of autumn, is a better flavor than pumpkin spice. I, personally, for instance, would rather drink a cable knit sweater spice latte. Or a major league baseball spice latte. Or a keen awareness of my mortality spice latte, because that’s what foliage is. Look, it might be the quiet taste. It might be the quiet taste. Pumpkin spice is just eggnog for morning people. Okay? And I will be subject for its tyranny no longer. It stops here!” 

ANNA 36:37     
That was John Oliver on Last Week Tonight from 2014, perfectly summing up the backlash against pumpkin spice - which was intense...

LIA 36:47   
Oh yeah.

ANNA 36:48    
Like, hate, hate poured in.

LIA 36:51  
There was a lot of hatred for / pumpkin spice.

ANNA 36:54  
/ Yeah, remember all the blog posts? All the social media hate. In a Reddit AMA with Anthony Bourdain from three or four years ago, pour one out for Anthony Bourdain. someone asked him what food trend he'd like to see disappear and he said, “I wanna see pumpkin spice drown in its own blood.” I miss that guy.

LIA 37:18 
Bourdain.

ANNA 37:19 
Bourdain. And then in 2015/2016, we see sales of pumpkin spice food and items actually start to decline. Okay. So we looked at what I got popular, let's look at part of why why we get the backlash. One is the marketing and corporate choices, so as the PSL started coming out earlier and earlier this year, I think it came out like August 25th, it started to be seen as more corporate as a marketing scheme, and people do not like seasonal creep. I do not like seeing Christmas stuff in September. It also made it less meaningful and less special, the longer it's available, you're undoing that reactance theory, you lose that urgency. And the other thing is just Trend Hating is a really normal human thing, human beings are in a constant push-pull between wanting to belong and wanting to be unique and special. So trends become trends because people get into something and then other people are like, “I wanna be part of that. I don't wanna be left out,” Right. but then it becomes so mainstream that then people are like, “I hate that thing. I'm special, I’m unique, I'm different.”

LIA 38:35 
Yeah, I'm gonna hate it along with everyone else.

ANNA 38:37  
Yeah, exactly. Also, when you talk about Pumpkin Spice Lattes you hear the word “Basic” a lot. According to Urban Dictionary a “basic” person is someone who is, “only interested in things that are mainstream, popular or trending.” It’s derogatory, we use it as a way to put down people who like popular things and position ourselves as unique and independent and separate from them. But, the examples given for things that are considered “basic” are things like, Ugg boots, leggings, and ponytails. So who is that describing? 

LIA 39:20
Yeah, wow, it seems pretty pointed towards women. 

ANNA 39:26  
Yeah. The term “Basic” is almost always used to tear down women. Which brings us to the next reason for the backlash, straight-up sexism. We gender food all the time, whether we realize it or not, things that are sweet, light are considered feminine, and things that are like savory and harsh are considered masculine, so if you think about Rose versus IPA. One is considered very feminine one is considered more masculine. And food trends are like most trends where if there's something that a lot of women like, it's seen as shallow, childish, and without merit, right? Girly means silly. Yep. So not just food, if you think about chick flicks. But if men like things, it's seen as complex, I'm serious and strong, you know. So we don't call barbecue or brewing craft beer at home or these masculine like male food trends “basic.” Although, I would argue that brewing craft beer at home is pretty basic.

LIA 40:34 
Oh, man! I brew craft beer. And kombucha. Oh my God.

ANNA 40:40 
And kombucha! Well, you make up for it with the sourdough.

LIA 40:45 
 I'm also doing sourdough.

ANNA 40:48 
You're just hitting, firing at all cylinders. Checking all boxes. A journalist named Jaya Sexana... And I'm sorry if I mispronounce that, wrote a fantastic article and Taste Magazine about how we gender and judge food, and she summed it up by saying, “When men like something, they elevate it. when women like something, they ruin it.” And the pumpkin spice is very much aimed at women, you know I've seen women wearing shirts that are like pumpkin spice, everything, I don't see dudes wearing those shirts. I'd love to see a dude wearing a shirt that says like, “PSL or Die.”

LIA 41:23 
Yeah.

ANNA 41:25  
So Lou's, my partner's, standard Starbucks order is a sugar-free vanilla latte with soy milk, and I guess he went to Starbucks with a male co-worker or friend, and they told him that that was a girl's drink.

LIA 41:40 
What? Wow.

ANNA 41:44 
A sugar-free vanilla latte with soy... It was a girly drink, I was like, What? What's a manly Starbucks order? And he was like, I don't know, an Americano was six extra shots?

LIA 41:54 
And tobacco.

ANNA 41:57 
Just pure motor oil. It's hard and it's tough and it hurts. That was really interesting and not something I had thought about, but once it was pointed out to me, I saw it sort of everywhere, and we all internalize patriarchy male, female, non-binary, we all internalize patriarchy 'cause it's how our whole society is set up, so this is something that I know I need to be more aware of, and we'll try to keep an eye out for on the show. Of, Are we gender-ing foods and then assigning value to that? 

MUSIC 42:24 

ANNA 42:28 
 So then we moved into our current state contemporary, the resurgence of pumpkin spice. So since about 2018, it's come back around into some acceptance. Right, people who like it are undeterred, and there is a backlash against the backlash because the backlash became the trend. Now, there's a backlash against that. But really a part of it is, Lia, the last few years have been so exhausting, so scary, so stressful, so demoralizing, especially here in the US, and I just... When I was reading about the backlash and these blog articles and stuff, I was just thinking right now we're... We're taping this in October 2020, by the time you hear it, I'll probably feel like that was 60 years ago, even if it's like in a month. I cannot imagine having the mental and emotional bandwidth to give a s*** about what coffee someone else is drinking. Like can you Imagine of everything that is going wrong and is at stake is important right now? Can you imagine sitting down and writing a blog post? Tearing down somebody's latte? Like It's just insane. And people who love it, have gotten to a point of the world's terrible f*** you, I'm drinking my PSL. Which is valid.

LIA 43:54 
Give me the thing that makes me happy.

ANNA 43:56 
Exactly, We've just settled into this place where the people who like it, want a bit of joy, and the people who don't are too tired to care about it. You know? Madeline Davies and Eater Magazine wrote about this and she wrote “long live the stupid stuff that makes the day worth getting through.”

LIA 44:14 
I love that, that is a great quote.

ANNA 44:26 
Here, here. And you know, the pumpkin spice latte had its first surge of popularity in 2008 during the last recession. Now in 2020, we also have a pandemic, civil unrest, an election on top of a Recession. So it makes perfect sense that people would again be reaching for something comforting. Because in the end, food trends are about feelings. I described it as the rise, fall, rise again of Pumpkin Spice because it really is a cycle. You know, so really our emotions and the outside forces that are affecting us, whether that's the economy or political chaos or whatever it is, really do manifest in all parts of our lives, and that includes our food trends. 

LIA 45:05  
I love that.

ANNA 45:07      
Yeah. 

CREDITS 45:09

45:24 LIA
Thank you for joining us today for this episode of Every Day is a Food Day! 

45:27 ANNA
Be sure to subscribe, rate, and review the show to help other listeners find it. Connect with us on Instagram and Twitter @FoodDayPod and join our Facebook group. We want to hear from you!

45:34 LIA
The clips you heard today were from HBO’s Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, The Columbus Dispatch, CNBC Television and WOSU Public Media.  

45:50 ANNA
EDFD is a production of Van Valin Productions and YumDay. It was created by Lia Ballentine and Anna Van Valin. Our sound designer is Steve Thompson, our production intern is Emma Massey, our marketing intern is Eric Chinn.

46:04 LIA
See you next time…