What if there was a tool, older than civilization itself, that could offer healing and relief in times of grief and distress? Pioneering psychotherapist and sound worker, Duff Stoneson, helps us explore this path as we delve into the captivating world of sound therapy. Walk with us on a journey of understanding the power and history of sound, and how it can be harnessed with the right guidance and trust from a skilled practitioner. We're not just talking science here, we're delving into the spiritual and intuitive realm too.
Then, we're shifting gears to tackle a subject that many find difficult - grief. Too often, we're led to believe in quick fixes or 'magic pill' solutions. But Stoneson challenges this notion, instead emphasizing the importance of therapists who can recognize their own limitations and direct you to specialized help when needed. Adding to this conversation, we shed light on the often overlooked topic of pregnancy loss, tracing back to Victorian-era mourning customs and their evolution to today. Let's break the silence together. Whether you're a skeptic or a sound therapy enthusiast, there's something in this episode for everyone.
Contact:
www.asiliveandgrieve.com
info@asiliveandgrieve.com
Facebook: As I Live and Grieve
Instagram: @asiliveandgrieve
Credits:
Music by Kevin MacLeod
Copyright 2020, by As I Live and Grieve
The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.
What if there was a tool, older than civilization itself, that could offer healing and relief in times of grief and distress? Pioneering psychotherapist and sound worker, Duff Stoneson, helps us explore this path as we delve into the captivating world of sound therapy. Walk with us on a journey of understanding the power and history of sound, and how it can be harnessed with the right guidance and trust from a skilled practitioner. We're not just talking science here, we're delving into the spiritual and intuitive realm too.
Then, we're shifting gears to tackle a subject that many find difficult - grief. Too often, we're led to believe in quick fixes or 'magic pill' solutions. But Stoneson challenges this notion, instead emphasizing the importance of therapists who can recognize their own limitations and direct you to specialized help when needed. Adding to this conversation, we shed light on the often overlooked topic of pregnancy loss, tracing back to Victorian-era mourning customs and their evolution to today. Let's break the silence together. Whether you're a skeptic or a sound therapy enthusiast, there's something in this episode for everyone.
Contact:
www.asiliveandgrieve.com
info@asiliveandgrieve.com
Facebook: As I Live and Grieve
Instagram: @asiliveandgrieve
Credits:
Music by Kevin MacLeod
Copyright 2020, by As I Live and Grieve
The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.
Welcome to, as I Live in Grieve, a podcast that tells the truth about how hard this is. We're glad you joined us today. We know how hard it is to lose someone you love and how well-intentioned friends and family try so hard to comfort us. We created this podcast to provide you with comfort, knowledge and support. We are grief advocates, not professionals, not licensed therapists. We are you.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone. Welcome back again to another episode of as I Live in Grieve, so happy to have you keep listening. I can't tell you how much you actually do for me. I've healed a lot in my grief and, as I tell everyone, I'm going to grieve till the day I die, so I never expect to be healed from grief. I'm healing in my grief and I think by now, those listeners that have been coming along week after week you're probably finally accepting that for yourselves as well and letting your life and grief kind of adapt to each other and take care of yourselves. That's what we need to do. Great guest today you know I say that every week, but it's always true I have great guests with me today is Duff Stonison. Did I pronounce that correctly?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Stonison Stone like rock so.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, my maiden name was actually.
Speaker 3:Stone.
Speaker 2:Oh cool, I'm not the engine on it, but anyway, it's so great to have you here. Duff, Thanks for taking the time to join me today.
Speaker 3:Thank you for inviting me, Kathy. I'm really happy to be here.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Now I'm up in the very frigid north in upstate New York, over near Buffalo, yay bills, and Duff is actually down in Texas, which I know has got to be a little bit warmer at least, but it's so nice to connect with you. Before we really get started, though, would you just share with our listeners a little bit of your background?
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah. So professionally I am a psychotherapist. I do wide range of work, trauma work. It's hard to mention all of the interest that I have in that field, but so I work as a psychotherapist. We also met through the context of my other project as a sound worker. Some people would call it sound healing. I don't love that term personally, but so that's another thing that we do, that I do that. I've been a musician my entire life and a number of different formats and music and sound have always been really powerful for me in terms of healing modalities, and so it's one of those topics that I can't help but get on a soapbox.
Speaker 2:Well, we're going to have to share a soapbox probably.
Speaker 3:Hey, I'm I'm all for soapboxing on this. It's yeah, it's needed.
Speaker 2:The R-Paz crossed as I was doing some research in the area of sound when I experienced something that all of a sudden makes me go whoa. And that's what happened with sound. Actually, I've told said before that I was in a crystal shop and before I went to check out they had my crystals in a little bag and they turned around and there was a huge bowl on the counter behind them and they took what looked like a mallet and rubbed it around the rim and all of a sudden there was this. I don't know, call it a vibration, call it a pulsation. I don't know what it was, but it was within me. It wasn't I didn't have goosebumps or anything, but I just felt it inside me. And that actually is what started my exploration, if you will, in sound and I am not done yet, but, duff, you're a part of it In chatting online one of the things that concerns me, and it happened more with sound, I think, just because of a what seems to be a trending popularity, if you will, in the area of sound sound bath, sound healing, sound immersion, call it whatever you want that I think the probably most known terms are sound bath or sound healing, and there's distinction even between those two.
Speaker 2:But I want my listeners to know whether it's sound or any other modality. Even finding a therapist for yourself, you have to be cautious. You have to find someone who is going to work with you, who you are going to be able to connect with, communicate with, build trust with. But for a moment, for our first questions, let's talk about sound. Now, one of the things I learned from Rich his episode is already launched, people have listened to it is that if you're looking for someone to help you with sound because, like me, this is either a curiosity or you're convinced, you believe in your heart that there's something to this scientifically and you want to experience it you decide you're going to look for someone, but the field is full of them. How do you know the person you're finding is a legitimate person? Let's start there.
Speaker 3:I just want to echo what you said. It is overwhelming right. The field is. I think there's always been a Lot going on in the field. It's, you know, there's a lot of crossover with what people often colloquially called new age. You know, the new age stuff I Don't know. I try to Step carefully around these kinds of things because I am a deep believer in the power of other ways of knowing. You know, of knowing through intuition, knowing through what people might call spirituality. Those I don't ever want to lean into. What you know and a lot of the discourse that people like rich and I have Love rich, by the way, he's great.
Speaker 3:Yes you know, sometimes we talk about Scientism, which is where we can lean too far into more of what's based on my therapeutic approach. It's like a left-brain approach where it's all very rigid and for you like and like, anything that we can't objectively measure is just not real and I don't know. I feel like the entirety of human history kind of flows against that, because human beings, you know, we have always sought knowledge through other means. So it's such an important thing. But I think that the danger can be when it's so easy to get caught up in your felt sense of knowing, like the description you gave of hearing that that you know the singing bowl and how that resonated in your body, like when you have an experience like that, it's so powerful, you know and it is we naturally want to know what the hell was that? Where do we get more of that?
Speaker 2:And that was well over a year ago and I can still sense it.
Speaker 3:I hear you. I've had experiences like that that stick with me very much as well, and so I don't want to, you know, get off on my soapbox yet, but you know. Coming back to your question of how do you find someone who's who's legitimate or who's good, you know, a lot of the perspective I have on sound is informed by my training as a therapist, and one of the big differences between those fields is that when you're a Therapist, you know you're required to get a master's degree and you know, with a specific Set of curricula, that you have to study and test.
Speaker 3:You have to go to a licensure process If you go off and do something that ethically you really shouldn't be doing. You have a license that you work very hard to Achieve that can be taken away like and in the field of sound there's nothing like that, you know it's like you want to be a sound healer, call yourself a sound healer and congratulations, you're a sound healer.
Speaker 3:You probably need to buy some instruments at some point, maybe, no, I don't know. But so, and I don't want to fall into the trap of saying, well, if people aren't licensed, and then they're not legitimate. Because you know, like people often compare, say, life coaches to you know professional, licensed therapists, and I'm not going to deny for a second that there are life coaches out there who do fantastic work with you, you know. And then there are also therapists who are doing bad work and running a foul of the ethical boundaries. They're just not getting caught.
Speaker 3:So you know, I'm a big, big believer in the nature of the therapeutic Relationship as one of the most powerful veal vehicles for that healing. For that, that support, you know, the support that one might receive, and From a very simplistic perspective, you know you have to trust your judgment. But I think that that begs the question of well, how do we work ahead of time to cultivate good judgment about that? You know, how do we know what our, particularly when we're exploring a field that we're not familiar with? Or, you know, something like sound healing when we might not know anything about. How do we know if our judgment is reasonable, if we can trust our gutter? So there are a lot of specifics that you've probably covered with some of your other guests in this area around, like Magic, frequencies and things like that.
Speaker 3:No, you haven't covered that, okay, well, so I think, in the sound healing field in particular, one reason that this discussion is so interesting is that there are a lot of very specific Claims about what will do what. One of the things we talk about a lot is Something we sometimes call frequency ism, which is one of the most common ideas You'll encounter as you're getting into sound healing, which is like the idea that 530 Hertz or some specific frequency will do some specific thing, like Anything from this will cure your headache or help you study to this. People, you know, did. We were talking before the episodes started about during COVID and like, oh man, there were so many people saying, you know, listen to my YouTube video of this. You know, frankly, very irritating buzzing noise and it will protect you from COVID. And yeah, that's where a lot of the discourse with us came up around saying, okay, we're all in agreement that sound and music are really powerful, but that is that's when it gets dangerous, when you're you know, people are maybe not going to take other precautions because they think that you know, having done this other thing somehow protects. So you know, I could run through a list of some of the like the low-hanging fruit.
Speaker 3:Personally, I would say that in my studies, my research, my just investment in this topic, I've never found anything legitimate to suggest that specific frequencies will do specific things. There's often a lot of kind of squishy gray area in terms of there's sort of a sleight of hand thing that happens in some of the Doing the air quotes here, the proof that people offer that they might reference real research. Like you know, there's research that's been done into hypersonic sound being able to destroy cancer cells, I think. And then they'll say and because of that, my, my yodeling will protect you from COVID, and it's like they. There's this kind of bait and switch thing where they're conflating a highly controlled lab environment with an extremely focused, you know, multi-million dollar piece of hypersonic sound equipment with the yodeling or their bowls, or whatever and those things don't convey, but it's enough that when these ideas are being presented primarily via meme format on social media, it's interesting.
Speaker 3:You know you're like, yeah, sure, that makes sense to me. We all can feel afraid of that, but yeah, so that's one example of people making claims that maybe can't be backed up, you know right right, yeah, and one of the reasons it sounds so convincing is because and Facebook is famous for this, so is Google.
Speaker 2:It seems that if you want something, and maybe you went to Google and you did sound bath as a search, by the time you get back on Facebook, you're gonna start getting ads for sound baths or sound healing, or sound something is a is taking over things like that, and you know a couple years ago, when it happened at that, what the Is going on here now. I understand what is going on, and we hear the word analytics a lot as well, and that's what it is. So these things are often, often prompting us or coming to our attention when we need to them, because somehow we've communicated that we need them and often, especially in the instance of grief, we may not really be thinking entirely clearly, so we have to be very, very careful. Let me throw out a premise if you want something to help you and that's just very basic and you start looking for it, I guess I would like to propose that if you think of the outcome you want, like if your outcome is specific enough to say I want to be healed from this pain in my neck, I want the pain in my neck to be gone. That's a very specific, very focused outcome that you desire.
Speaker 2:I am going to propose that you need to do more than just preliminary research, investigation. Because you have such a specific desire. You need to dig and dig deep and find the best person, the person most qualified that will give you the best likelihood of that outcome. And it's not going to be the person that says this frequency is going to help you lose weight if what you want is to get rid of the pain in your neck. So, just as a very simple statement to people, think about what you want. If you want to be, if you want to have those symptoms of grief go away forever, look for somebody that's got the best chance of helping you do that, whether or not you ever get there, but along the way you do that. Does that sound like a fair statement, a fair price?
Speaker 3:It does. Yeah, I think where my mind goes when you're talking about this is the value of, well, even the complexity in that, with grief like you name, we're often not, you don't have all of our capacity available to us, because our emotional bandwidth is, of course, very tied up with what we're experiencing, and the danger there, I think, is that often the people who float to the top of the algorithm, so to speak, like what you're talking about with social media, the internet is well, I can only speak to American culture at large, you know, because that's all of everyone but man we love magic pills. We, we love the idea that a magic pill, whether it's an actual pill or a frequency on YouTube, is going to take that pain away. And have you found?
Speaker 2:it yet.
Speaker 3:I'm working on it.
Speaker 2:yes, yeah, it's good.
Speaker 3:You know it's you know, and at the same time though I don't want to be too disparaging there because I have so much compassion for grief is this another thing about our culture?
Speaker 3:is that we we're not necessarily really good at preparing people for grief you know, I mean painting in broad strokes, like I do a lot of work with men and our masculinity, for example, and like we're told, I mean, don't cry. I mean you know it's gotten better with younger generations, but why? You know, we're often unprepared for handling something like grief. That not only is, you know, logistically incredibly, incredibly complicated because of everything that goes into that whole process, but you know, emotionally. And then it's this. There's this visceral gut punch that comes with extremely strong emotions, and grief is one of those things. Yeah, that's, it's Maybe one of the strongest, even sometimes one of the first, just undeniably visceral experiences of emotion that we can have. So I, of course, I'm someone who like, yeah, I want to go out and do all the research and I want to read the papers, and sometimes that might be too much to ask people when they're in that state.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I think one good bit of sorry.
Speaker 3:go ahead Well no, no, the thing I might add just to kind of touch back on what you were saying about finding the best person, because I think that can be. It's such good advice. One of the things I've learned is that the good people, the best people who are able to help you, they're often not the ones who are going to make the biggest claims. The people that really like, are dedicated to their craft and really know what they're doing. They're often the most circumspect because they're aware of the limitations, of what they can do and what they can't. And you know a really good therapist, for example. If you go to them meeting help with some specific experience that you've had and they don't know a damn thing about it, they're gonna tell you that and help you find someone that does know about that, as opposed to someone who might say, yeah, let me do my yodeling for you. No fancy yodeling, right, I know you're doing is great, it's just the example that comes to mind now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's fine. Yeah, and you're right. I mean we are looking for a magic pill, but me personally, I'm getting tired of going to the pharmacy for medications. I don't. I want something that is gonna make me feel something other than side effects. I want something that's going to make me think, going to make me respond in some way.
Speaker 2:I don't like the pills anymore. I take very few of them, actually. I'm fortunate in that way. But that's why, actually, ever since I started doing the podcast and started considering some different modalities, I've tried some things that most people have never heard of. I've tried the energy alignment method, because the sample, the experiment, if you will that she gave me just kind of blew my mind. But I'm also the type of person that does a lot of research, and that's why it's taken me over a year to find a select group of people to talk about sound with, because I did my research until I got people that I respect and that have extensive and I mean extensive backgrounds in education, educating themselves, learning, training, skill training, retraining and listening to all the new stuff, and they all get it, and that's who is going to go on my journey with me. I'm getting them lined up as we speak and I'll continue to report back to the podcast.
Speaker 2:But back to the point we're trying to make today, and that's you have to be careful. If you are not prone to research, if you just want to open the paper and have an ad jump in your face, then I'm going to say please, please, be very, very careful, because chances are you're going to spend money for something and get nothing from it or get more problems than you started out with. So if you're not the type to do research, maybe find a friend, ask them to do some research for you. Maybe find a buddy to do it with you. I mean, you certainly could both attend a sound session or something like that. Now we talked about outcomes. If you don't know what you're looking for, but you just have a curiosity, would there be any harm in just attending a local event without any concern or regard for the background someone might have if they just advertised 30 minute sound bath. Is there any harm in going to something like that if you're just curious?
Speaker 3:That's such a great question. I got to say I really appreciate the direction you go with this. I would say, for the most part, probably no. That's one of the saving graces of this, and it's also one of the reasons why people can make all kinds of random claims about why the thing works, because often with sound and music, it works, but it's not something like mathematics where in order for you to make it do the thing, like if you were to do some complex mathematics you have to know how the mathematics work in order to do it. That's not the way it is with sound.
Speaker 3:You can be a musician who picks up an instrument and plays it and people say, man, that made me feel great, which in and of itself is really powerful. It's just in that often, many of us, our nature is to say, well, I need to understand why. That's where there's so many ideas on offer out there that can really lead you down the path. I think that one of the side benefits of that that's so great is that if we help ourselves think about how to think about these sorts of things and impose some limitations on what we expect, how far we're willing to follow these sorts of things, then we can really protect ourselves. Whether or not we're seeing we might be working with a practitioner who wants to make all kinds of claims about this or that.
Speaker 3:I'm very much a believer that what sound tends to do is it helps us get into our bodies, which, again because we as a culture tend to be very kind of. In a lot of the stuff that I study, we talk about being cut off from the neck down, like we're out of touch with our bodies, and that's where so much of our emotion originates from. Sound can be a great way to get in touch with that stuff and really unlock aspects of our grief that otherwise we would have a hard time accessing to work through, because I do buy into the idea that we grieve through things, as opposed to just kind of ignoring it and waiting to forget about it.
Speaker 3:That's often not very effective, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, forgetting doesn't help, because decades ago I gave birth to a little boy who initially they said was dead. Then they revived, he got a heartbeat, but within 24 hours he did die and it was a loss that at the time, of course, there were no such things as bereavement groups, and going to therapists was such a stigma that that was never a suggestion for me. But I never saw this baby, never held this baby, touched this baby, and no one ever took a picture. So the baby is only a very remote memory. But it's not until recent years, doing the podcast, that it's all of a sudden hit me that I am now, decades later, grieving this baby that I never met. So the years don't matter, they just don't matter and you can't just forget about it. I haven't forgotten. So you just can't forget about it. It's there in your mind somewhere.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no man, what a powerful, huge. I don't have the words for that experience, kathy, and I appreciate you. Yeah you know sharing that. I know it's really personal, but, man, that's a hard loss.
Speaker 2:Well it is, but I've tried to be very candid on the podcast because I know in my heart that they're that more than one. There are others out there that may have gone through a similar situation and certainly with COVID, a lot of people Never got to say goodbye. They never got to say their goodbyes, and I think it's important because these are some of the things that we're dealing with in our grief. Back to the subject at hand no, go ahead, I'll make you say I'm just gonna say that something they'll.
Speaker 3:Something else that I work with sometimes is you know men and our experiences of pregnancy loss because, like so often, yes.
Speaker 3:That's. It's a thing that birth and death, two things that are so Incredibly powerful that we don't talk about it very much as a society, there's a taboo about and, you know, and for men often, like if we're partnered with someone's pregnant and there's a loss like it's, you know, often it's hard to feel like there's even a place for us but it, you know, to be part of that conversation out of respect, but at the same time we feel that loss too, so deeply.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I'm sorry, I don't want to riff on you during this vulnerable thing, but I want to yeah.
Speaker 2:No, that's fine, but it's very true and it reminds me of a conversation I had with someone who we were talking about grieving customs, mourning customs in the Victorian era and you know, and back then and and death then and grief was something that was very public Because often the calling hours were held in the parlor of your home and you know, the house was draped in buntings and people wore armbands or women wore a certain color clothing, certain style of clothing, some wore veils, so it was very obvious if you saw someone that they were grieving. And now here we are in this era and what has happened is back in the Victorian era. Discussions of sex, gender, sexuality, intimacy, that stuff was all in the closet. Well, we've cleaned that closet out now and that's we got that part right.
Speaker 2:And then we we shoved grief and death back in the closet, so, and I thought it was a very, very unique perspective, but that's that's kind of what happens. So we're trying to bring it back out of the closet, if you will, but I was going to kind of return to the subject at hand, so you know that. No, that's fine. The point we're trying to make is that you need to be careful. You need to again consider what it is you want out of it. If you think sound might help you and you decide to go to a sound bath because you're curious what this sound sounds like, what the instrument sound like, if you haven't heard singing bowls or crystal bowls, you may have heard gongs and chimes, you may have heard drums, but maybe not all connected, all intertwined, and you're curious, by all means, spend a little bit of money, go to a sound bath. If, from that point, you decide, oh my gosh, I felt something. I Felt something I Want to know more, start digging, be careful and look for someone that you can say oh, look at their background, that's impressive. They must know what they're doing, get referrals, ask for recommendations. Who else has has Worked with you and like, can I talk to them? Remember you, you're hiring someone to help you in in a matter of speaking, and that means that you should be able to choose who you want and who you feel is going to give you the best outcome.
Speaker 2:And we're talking a lot about sound, but it doesn't have to be Specific to sound. It can be specific to finding a therapist to work with. You're going to pour your heart out to this person. It needs to be somebody that you can build a solid relationship with, and if you start with someone and it's not working, well, fess up, say you know this isn't helping me, I'm not getting the help I wanted. And if they're a good therapist, they're already going to know that and they're going to be helping you find someone else. So all we want to say really is that Latin phrase caveat emptor. Let the buyer beware, don't hesitate to do your research, because in the long run, you'll benefit from it.
Speaker 2:Today, our episode may have prompted a lot of questions with listeners what about this, what about that? I encourage you to reach out to me. We're going to have contact information for Duff as well, and you can reach out to him as well to get some of these questions answered. It's so, so important because the longer we remain in especially this little shell of grief, devastated by all these emotions we're feeling, the harder it's going to be to move forward, to start the healing process. The healing process that you're going to be in for the rest of your life probably, but after a period of time Trust me, I speak from personal experience there is the possibility that you could be happier than you've ever been in your entire life, and I can go into that more another time but might require another soapbox.
Speaker 3:It's a good soapbox.
Speaker 2:At any rate, this is the time to where, for my guess, I turn the microphone over to them and let them speak directly to our listeners, without me interrupting with questions or comments.
Speaker 3:So the mics all yours, but your questions and comments are so great, man, you know. One last thing I wanted to say before I'll give my you know, my info and everything, but just along the lines of what you named in terms of being informed about who you work with, I want to double down on what you said about speak to the person, ask them how they work with grief. You know, in in the therapist community, a lot of us will talk about being trauma informed and having trauma informed care, and I see that word starting to kind of Trickle into sound work too, and that is really valuable because I mean most people would frame loss as a form of trauma. You know, and if someone says you're talking about that may mean that different people get different things from sound. And if you go to attend the sound bath, prepare ahead of time for the fact that you might have a big you know this role reaction. You might have some emotions come up. You may not everyone does, but and what you'd be looking for, hopefully, someone who can support you in that, someone who knows what to do, instead of Just kind of not knowing what to do with it, not knowing how to respond. Or, you know, maybe you take someone with you who's a trusted person, who could be there to support you.
Speaker 3:One of the hardest things about grief is that we tend to go through it alone. The isolation is such a huge piece. So, you know, when you're looking for a helper whether it be a therapist or a sound worker or whatever someone who's going to create safety and support for you is so valuable, you know. Anyway, sorry, one more soapbox had to get in. So, yeah, I've got a couple of things I can share. I I do my therapist work in Texas now. I actually live in Georgia now, as a matter of fact. So yeah, we, we didn't talk about that beforehand, but so I still maintain my license in Texas. I do see clients anywhere there. That's the way the licensure works and I'm actually getting my Georgia licensure ironed out pretty soon. So I'm actually in the Athens area. So my therapeutic practice is that growing through counseling dot com, and that's g r o w I n, g, t h r o u g h Counseling. That's a long URL. I'll let you put it in the show notes. How about that growing through counseling dot com?
Speaker 3:My sound work is grounding sound dot com and that's, you know, my sound work practice. I do a couple different things. I do individual work. I help facilitate breath work, which is another powerful modality for growth and healing. I just love I actually run a retreat couple times a year. Haven't been doing that since covid but hope to start up again and I actually started my own podcast, which we were talking about, and it really Delves into this topic how to approach sound work with a mindset that thinks critically and is you can be wise without being dismissive of the deep meeting, and that's called the grounding sound podcast. I only have one episode, so, but it's posted on my website at grounding sound dot com. So, yeah, and I'm always great.
Speaker 2:Lot more things for me to check out, and it sounds like you definitely will be back, because I want to hear more about bro yeah.
Speaker 2:And how that and how that might help, so that that sounds like it'd be a great episode as well. I try real hard to present as many different things modalities, treatments, options as possible, because everyone is so different and what might work for one won't work for someone else. But my hope is that if they hear about something, maybe it will just peak their curiosity a bit and they'll say maybe I can try that. One of my favorites especially is anything you can Try when you're by yourself, because we all know that when you're grieving you tend to spend a lot of time by yourself. So if there's something that you can do all alone you won't have to worry about other people watching you and judging you then you know that may very well work. So, breath work. It sounds like it'll be an upcoming episode. I'd love to talk about that so such a powerful thing well, consider it, we just need to schedule it.
Speaker 2:you're going to, you're going to be back, so listeners again, I thank you so much for taking the time to listen, whether you're in the car taking your kids somewhere or whether you're sitting in your backyard on your deck. Oh that sounds so easy. Except it's pretty cold up here.
Speaker 3:I had to scrape my car windows when you're in Rochester man in terms of cold, but you're not.
Speaker 2:No, and to think there's still an outdoor soccer game. The end of this week was going to be pretty frigid at night, under the lights at any rate. See listeners, see how busy I am, but that helps me me personally. Maybe it won't help you, but you can have an active, happy life and I think just by listening, hopefully I've got you a little comfort and given you some resources, some other things to think about. So I hope you come back again next week. You know the directory is there, it's all on my website, it's on all the podcast apps and I hope you find some comfort and support for yourself to talk to you next week as we all continue to live in grief.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening with us today. Do you have a topic that you'd like us to cover or do you have a question from one of our episodes? Please email us at info at as I live in grief dot com and let us know. We hope you will find a moment to leave a review, send an email and share with others. Join us next time as we continue to live in grief together.