Losing a loved one is a profound and life-altering experience. Navigating the unique challenges of grandparent grief is our esteemed guest, Bradley Vinson. He opens up about the complexities faced by grandparents grieving the loss of a grandchild and having to support their own child in their grief simultaneously. Bradley's candid conversation sheds light on the often-overlooked role of grandparents in today's family dynamic, emphasizing the need for specialized support during such challenging times.
Our journey through the labyrinth of grief doesn't stop there. Bradley bravely shares his personal story of losing a granddaughter, the trials of raising grandsons amidst his own grief, and his struggle to reconcile with traditional male norms during the grieving process. His insights reveal the differences in how genders deal with grief and the significance of breaking these norms for healing. Providing resources and support for those dealing with loss, Bradley's heartrending yet enlightening narrative promises to touch your heart and inspire your journey through grief. Don't miss out on this emotional roller-coaster that promises wisdom, compassion, and understanding in the very face of loss.
Losing a loved one is a profound and life-altering experience. Navigating the unique challenges of grandparent grief is our esteemed guest, Bradley Vinson. He opens up about the complexities faced by grandparents grieving the loss of a grandchild and having to support their own child in their grief simultaneously. Bradley's candid conversation sheds light on the often-overlooked role of grandparents in today's family dynamic, emphasizing the need for specialized support during such challenging times.
Our journey through the labyrinth of grief doesn't stop there. Bradley bravely shares his personal story of losing a granddaughter, the trials of raising grandsons amidst his own grief, and his struggle to reconcile with traditional male norms during the grieving process. His insights reveal the differences in how genders deal with grief and the significance of breaking these norms for healing. Providing resources and support for those dealing with loss, Bradley's heartrending yet enlightening narrative promises to touch your heart and inspire your journey through grief. Don't miss out on this emotional roller-coaster that promises wisdom, compassion, and understanding in the very face of loss.
The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to, as I Live in Grieve, a podcast that tells the truth about how hard this is. We're glad you joined us today. We know how hard it is to lose someone you love and how well-intentioned friends and family try so hard to comfort us. We created this podcast to provide you with comfort, knowledge and support. We are grief advocates, not professionals, not licensed therapists. We are you.
Speaker 2:
Hi everyone, welcome back again to another episode of as I Live in Grieve. So happy that you joined us again today and I appreciate you so, so much. I hope you're doing well this week, or at least maybe better than last week. Little steps, that's about all we can ask for, and I hope you're taking care of yourselves. Y'all promised me remember. With me today is Bradley Vincent. I'm so tickled to have met him and had our paths crossed, and we're going to talk about a very special topic near and dear to me, because I'm a grandmother and you all hear me talk about my wonderful, wonderful grandsons that I'm so blessed to have in my life. So, hi, bradley, thanks so much for taking time to join me today.
Speaker 3:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm Uber excited and just over the moon.
Speaker 2:
I'm ready to be here with you. Before we get started, could you just maybe give a little bit of your background to our listeners.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I mean I kind of call myself a husband to my better two thirds. That's my wife. She's better than my better half and I'm a grandpa and I'm also a fire and police chaplain and speaker teacher. But I'm also a grieving grandpa and I call myself a Lana's Paw Paw. I use that as part of my title now. I'm a Lana's Paw Paw.
Speaker 2:
How old was the Lana when you lost her?
Speaker 3:
She was four when we lost her in an accident at her school.
Speaker 2:
Today, and the reason I've asked you is because of you being a Lana's Paw Paw. We're going to talk today about grandparent grief. We've not talked on it yet. My podcast is now three years old and I've done episodes every week and we've still not devoted an episode to grandparents. So I'm really, really pleased that our paths crossed and that you're able to join me.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, much appreciate that, like I said, oddly, when you say that it seems like that would maybe be the case because grandparents are kind of on the periphery of grief, I feel. So three years without talking about it kind of seems, yeah, that'd probably be it.
Speaker 2:
Fortunately not lost any grandchildren, but, having said that, I did lose an infant myself who was full term, difficult delivery, and he only lived for just under 24 hours. So I grieve his loss at the same time when my daughter, stephanie, is truly a best friend. What are your thoughts on that? Really trying to get at the evil aura that's coming from my常感 from this neighborhood, when she was going to the hospital to deliver her first child, we knew it was a boy. We had already named him Nathan, and I worked at the hospital so I was well aware of the little shortcut code, those tricky little things that they page for certain doctors, something over the paging system. That really doesn't exist.
Speaker 2:
But, what it means is that there's trauma, there's something important, something critical. They do it secretly so as to not upset visitors, but I knew the code and it was for the delivery room, so I knew that there was a problem in there and I went through, I think, every single aspect of grief, every emotion and everything. I feared for my daughter. I feared for my unborn grandchild and remembered at the same time the difficulty I had and certainly did not want her to endure that. So I've touched on the borders, if you will, and Nathan today is an adorable, almost 20-year-old man in a band, living his great life as a performer on stage, and I'm worried. There is a groupie every performance to watch.
Speaker 3:
That's awesome.
Speaker 2:
So, as a grandparent, grief is more complex. What would be some of the reasons that you can think of that makes grieving as a grandparent a little bit tougher?
Speaker 3:
I think, because I'm grieving my granddaughter and I'm grieving my daughter who was her mother, and it's that dual role of grieving and grieving for another adult because they've been changed in a way, but then trying to parent them through it. And we all know how hard it is to parent an adult already, right, and what I've, I guess, through the generations, as it kind of occurs, is that there's very few grandparents that say, oh, I'm grandparent, so and so Everybody's a pop pop or, you know, I'm a pop pop, my wife's name is BB and it's that generation of grandparents that want to be involved with their grandkids because they're maybe younger and more chipper than, you know, usual. And some grandparents even move into the area where their, where their kids are to be close to grandkids, right, and now there's a void and it's hard to grieve because we're on the periphery, right. And what's what's so hard about it at a level is that whenever there's child loss, I believe and I believe I've experienced the further you are from being the birth mother, the less care you receive, intentional or non intentional. So when there's a child loss, mom gets more care and hugs and everybody gathers around mom even more than dad, right, and even more than the other children, the siblings of the child that was lost.
Speaker 3:
But once you get past that initial family unit, grandparents might as well be a third or fourth cousin in the whole scheme of things, and it's not a jealousy thing, it's more so. You know, we're involved. Grandparents we lost too, and and it was so. It was so difficult because at the time both of my parents were still alive, and so as a grandparent I had parents and dealing with my parents maybe not being able to live beyond the deep grief. I don't either. I don't think any of us live beyond grieving, but I mean but I mean the deep heart wrenching, yes, and grieving that that my mom and dad might not ever really have joy in their life before they went on to be with the Lord, and so it's all those things, Everything you said you know, it adds some layers on there and, as you were speaking about it, the thought came to me that sometimes, depending on situations and your family and your network and everything, it can almost be a disenfranchised grief because you're not getting that support.
Speaker 2:
In fact, I may not even think to mention it.
Speaker 3:
No, because in most cases, as a parent, you lean on your mom and dad or grandparent figures or older adults for that knowledge, for that care. So when tragedy happens, that's who you lean on. And so now, when you're that, you know, patriarch or whatever else, who are you leaning on? And so there's a void there, because everybody tends to lean up, but who you don't want to lean down, you don't want to lean into your children and just the things that we learned as a grandparent. Well, even this, because Alana, you know, granddaughter, we had a daughter and Alana was her daughter.
Speaker 3:
And my wife walked up to me one day. She said I just realized I'm grieving the loss of motherhood because now motherhood is broken. I birthed our daughter, our daughter birth our only granddaughter, and now she's gone. So I've lost the legacy of motherhood and I would never even fathom that and when and when you look at it, I guess physically or DNA wise, I didn't even think about this until after my granddaughter died. Literally, my wife is my granddaughter's mother, because every woman is born with all the eggs and stuff she's going to have, right. So my wife lost the daughter, slash granddaughter, and I was like and just all those things.
Speaker 3:
And you know, sitting as a grandparent even to the level of what does everybody consider a grandchild? Right, the gift that you're giving your parents, they get the spoil somebody and you know I'm using air quotes here that nobody can see and do it right this time. Right, because it's like, oh you know, my mom and dad did all this and they were too busy when I was a kid. But now I have a kid and it's like a reward for my parents, right. But now the gift that you gave us is gone. And how do we console our children through that? Even though it's not like they took the gift from us, a lot of times they're like the gift I gave my parents is gone, right.
Speaker 3:
And so you have all these things you're dealing with where you're trying to care for a grieving adult, another level of your family that's grieving because she had a brother and two brothers. She was the middle one when she passed. The little brother was two, she was four Older brother six. And so you grieve all these things because you know the person you're supposed to be with for the majority of your life is your siblings, not your parents, not your grandparent, and now the person you're supposed to spend most of your life with is gone when you're six years old.
Speaker 3:
So the auntie to all your kids, the girl that gives the side eye to all your girlfriends, you know that person's gone and I grieve that for my grandson because at some point, all things being equal, he's going to be grieving me at some point. And the person that I because they were just so tight the person that I know, maybe outside of his wife, if he's at that age when I'm gone, I just know he would be leaning on a lot and he doesn't have that, you know. So it's all those things you're grieving as a grandparent, because the golden years you're winding down, I mean, you know it's inevitable, none of us live forever.
Speaker 2:
And it's like that's kind of what I'm saying to myself as you're talking. You're saying so much with these words and I think of the relationship I have with my brother. You're absolutely right, my brother and I are closer now, I think, than we've ever been, from the time we were young and used to tease each other and make trouble for each other. But you know, we are very, very close now and if a week goes by that one of us doesn't reach out to the other, it's very odd and usually means somebody's sick. I just wow is what I'm feeling. And you have kind of put into words some things that I didn't even know. I had thought about that, just kind of fleeting thoughts here and there, but you've really honed in on them. So, for grandparents again, we're just using that general term, grandparents but there's a grandmother and a grandfather. How is it different? Do you have any thoughts on that? I mean, you could probably speak more from a grandfather's perspective.
Speaker 3:
And, like I was saying before, when my wife would tell me that, you know, the legacy of motherhood was broken and those type of things, I never would have fathomed that. I just saw it as us not having a granddaughter, and it may have been different had it been God forbid one of my grandsons. You know you'll never want to say what you know, but, but it's that kind of thing. But then also what here's what's weird at the time, I was working for a global nonprofit, global ministry, to be exact, because I guess that adds relevance to what I'm about to say and I get back to the office after bereavement leave and my friend slash boss slash manager, because we were just cool like that he looks at me and says not exactly these words but you know, I don't know any relationships that have survived child loss. And I'm standing there, net man's presence, and he was like I don't know any, any relationship that has survived child loss. It was like he was questioning my manhood, questioning my faith, questioning the love I have for my wife, everything Because, to put that in context, literally right now, we are the guardians of a lot of his brothers. We've been raising them for the last seven years. She passed away in 2016, and so we've been raising them basically since that point and and, but someone to tell me that the bond of our marriage wasn't strong enough to get through this Within days of it happening. It kind of set a precedent, right. It's like so now, every heartache, every Moment of silence, every bit of angst I may be feeling for being a new parent, I was like, okay, we're going down that road or we won't be together, and as grandparents, I kind of lean back on that.
Speaker 3:
I think the, the harshness or the heaviness of it Frankly also deals with time, because we don't have a lot of time To reconcile, we don't have a lot of time to not get something right, we don't have a lot of time to Miss an opportunity. We just don't have the time. That a 20 something, all things being equal. You know cuz things. You know we don't have that kind of time, and so when someone says I don't know any marriages, that last Relationships that have lasted through this, it's like so I'm gonna spend my retirement years alone and grieving that and my granddaughter, you know, and so it's all these things that go along with it. That happens to parents, you know, birth parents, but those things are compounded, not worse, because I would never say it was worse, but there's just there's other things stacked on it, including time. That makes it so difficult, because early on in my grief you know when sad yeah seemed a hundred miles away from where I was and and your body starts to fail.
Speaker 3:
Yes based on age and grief. And you wonder, you know cuz it? Frankly, I had to have surgery. I'm sure it was probably grief related. I don't remember if I started having these issues Before my granddaughter died or not, but I want them having to have surgery and I'm sitting there in recovery and they sent me home and I got stuff attached to me and all that and I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, man, what if I die in this state, in this pain, and I'm gonna live out the rest of my time in heavy grief and Heavy physical pain and my grandsons have to witness this? So it's all these things and men usually ideate. You know about death more than women after, during grief, and so all that stuff, right, and and what really helped me through a lot of it, especially Raising these grand boys in the midst of it, is that my wife approached me one day and she said you know, I know you love a lot and I know you're grieving, but it hinders Me being able to heal, not knowing if you're trying not.
Speaker 2:
You're trying not to heal, okay right.
Speaker 3:
So we're not knowing, if I'm not knowing, if I'm not trying to heal you were just kind of giving up and and the idea of grieving and silence and cocooning and man caving and all this other kind of stuff, right.
Speaker 3:
And she said if I can't be a witness To your healing process, it hinders my ability to heal, because I gotta be able to witness you to you doing it, and that did something to me. Now, everybody doesn't have a wife like that, right, and everybody doesn't have a wife that'll speak that life into them. I'm so grateful for that. And so even I had to break a lot of the norms. I had to be Emote more than anger, because typically many mode everything, do anger. I'm sad, I'm grumpy, I'm grumpy, I'm grumpy, I'm frustrated, I'm grumpy. And I had, you know, I have two little boys to raise.
Speaker 3:
And so they walk up and they say, paul, paul, you thinking about a lot of, and whether I was or Not, I would say yes, I am thinking about it, because I knew there was opportunity, because they, they were Filling something, I wanted to talk about it. And I would say you know, paul, paul is sad right now. I've been thinking about a lot and and I'm sad, you know, and it's okay to cry and it's okay to emote, and because now I'm raising two boys that need to see the full spectrum, what it takes to be a man. Right, I can't go back on the old tropes of stiff upper lip and be strong. No, because I can't put that burden on a two and a six year old.
Speaker 3:
That that does not have a sister, that every dinner table they sit down that there's an empty chair for the rest of their lives. You know, every event they go to and we go cruising as a family, she's not there and it's evidence she's not there. You know she's never been forgotten and things like. So it's all of those things right that now I have as being the man in the family because I'm grandpa. Gotta handle all of that stuff, you know. And outside of my granddaughter not being here, I'm okay with all that responsibility. Right, because I've had to lean into it.
Speaker 3:
Well, of course rather than I would rather not have all that responsibility. Thankful I can take on that responsibility, but like I tell everybody else when I go do speaking engagements and all this other kind of stuff, oh that's cool, but I'd rather have my granddaughter Now before your wife said you know, and so and kind of gave you that wake-up call, if you will.
Speaker 2:
were you aware of yourself Feeling anything like giving up? Were you aware of not taking care of yourself?
Speaker 3:
That's a hard one to say. I I'm naturally I feel an introvert, which my wife doesn't really believe that either. But I I Get energized talking to people, but as soon as I'm done, we don't have to go out to dinner afterwards and all that kind of stuff. It's like you know and so. And so I'm okay being alone, I'm okay sitting Quietly and it doesn't mean anything, right. And so it's easy for that quietness to then become a Shelter, then become a what. I'll just sit here a couple more hours Right to then become Okay, well, yeah, I'm not feeling well, so I'm not gonna go jogging today, but then I'm, because I'm not jogging, I'm not feeling well.
Speaker 3:
Then it becomes a spiral, right, like, and so as it was that kind of thing. So it snuck up on me because, you know, you kind of use grief as an excuse for a while, until your body just says something's not right. And then you got the old, you know Stubbornness of men that oh yeah, I got that little pain in my knee, got a little pain in my back. Yeah, usually it's my wife's egg. Okay, you're gonna keep limping or you're gonna go to the doctor, right, and I would always and I I always suggest that men grandpas are not Go have the man check up, okay, within six months of a grief event, because I really feel that men, physically so, hold on to their grief more than women.
Speaker 2:
I want to make sure I understand. Grief in men probably manifests itself in More of a physical state with men, and with women is probably more emotional. I would say, yeah, that's an interesting boy. That would say so grant word I could probably get some grant money to research that.
Speaker 2:
That that concept, but it that certainly makes sense and I hadn't until you just kind of mentioned all that, I hadn't really thought that one of the ways that Men grieve this is my opinion versus women is that you see it in a man In more of a physical sense, whether I mean some will take to drinking or just maybe going out gambling or whatever, but they will, they will need something, they will try to fill that gap, if you will, with something physical and activity or something like that. That's. That's extremely interesting.
Speaker 3:
What is funny? Because I have this thing that I call men grieve to, and usually a lot of women show up to it. But I talk about how, you know, first of all, men ideate about death more than women, I feel, but then will self met, I call it self medication, you know the drugs, alcohol, that kind of stuff. But then we will also do things that get us close to death but will kill us, like I'm gonna go out with the bulls, I'm gonna skydive, you know, I'm gonna write and it's like Is those kind of things where? But if I happen to die, it's okay, you said. I mean so it's that kind of stuff. And and I would tell me, and all the time you can't build enough bird houses, you can't fix enough cars, you can't watch enough football, not to grieve, and all these things are ways to not grieve it's almost equivalent of stuffing it.
Speaker 2:
You're distracting yourself from it.
Speaker 3:
And that's what makes the physical ailments, because, frankly, when I was talking about both of my parents been alive when a lot of passed away. My father passed away December 2022, so it's been less than a year, and I'm kind of like the family minister, kind of become that now because it went to seminary and all that. I'm also a chaplain, so I want to do my dad's funeral and you know so that was in January because he died late December, around mid to late February. I was up in my office, while I'm sitting right now, and I reached for something and it grew me on the floor.
Speaker 3:
Just that much pain that evolved into full body pain not been able to move which evolved into bed written For a few months, which evolved to all this other stuff and physical therapy and all those things. I thought because I had experienced grief already in that I could handle my dad not having my dad with me and I really feel that, even though I thought I was trying to lean in and do it better, that grief calls probably 85 to 90% of that and it was all physical, it was all. I didn't know why it was. I thought I was talking, speaking into it, leaning into it outwardly, emoting, having conversations, and just the grief was just that much more powerful than everything that I was doing. That, I thought, meant I was leaning into the process and it just, I mean it literally kept me. It threw me in bed for months, not sleeping, couldn't eat, couldn't stand up, couldn't sit too long. It was literally the physical manifestation.
Speaker 2:
And a believer that every loss you experience is going to be different. I've had four major losses in my life and you know, from my infant son to my father, my mother and, more recently, my husband, who's been gone now five and a half years. But each one was different and even though you think, oh, you know, by now I should have it figured out, I didn't. And the loss of my husband was the worst one of all and the hardest, and I also am a believer that I'm going to agree for the rest of my life. My grief has changed, its changed shape, my life has changed. My life has changed. I'm a different person than I was. They kind of have morphed me into a new being, if you will, in a lot of ways. So I I agree with that and I can understand that. But that will help me understand men grieving, knowing that it's more physical for them, so that, hopefully, will help me support and be a little more understanding.
Speaker 3:
And I say in a general sense because I used to do this straw poll when I go to speak in engagements about men and women's grief. And I would say, all things being equal, if you saw a man and a woman broke down on the side of the road, which one would you help first? And to a person everybody said the woman I said, ok, all things being equal. Now, men and women separately, you broke down on the side of the road. What's the first thing you do? Almost to it and I'm not being shown this, but almost to a person Almost every woman said I'm going to grab my phone, call somebody. Almost every man said I'm going to get out and walk around the car and see what's wrong, maybe I can fix it.
Speaker 3:
I said that's male and female grief in a nutshell. Everybody leans into the woman. It's communal. It's how can I help you, men? You're going to be all right, be strong. But then Men also will say hey, I got this, let me try to figure it out where a woman would say yes, please, I welcome this. And women are women of what I call need to need. They'll sit around in a circle and be need to need men, or shoulder to shoulder, give us something to do, and at some point we're going to talk about our grief. But women can just go straight into it. Men got to be golfing or whatever else fixing a roof. Oh man, I heard about your granddaughter. Yeah, man, and then it kind of comes out yeah, yeah, so that. But that that's grief, I feel.
Speaker 3:
I love that and I'm in a male female nutshell yeah.
Speaker 2:
I'm gonna have to jot that one down. That's beautiful actually. Um, you know, and I hate to say this, but our time is running out, so you know, I, I may very well have to have you back another time, who knows? But I always love to have guests back would love to love to the discussion just keeps going.
Speaker 2:
I've got one gentleman, um gary row, who's a as an author, um, you know, wonderful, wonderful christian man, and he just does so much for me personally every time I see him and and talk to him. He's been back a number of times. But at any rate, before I sign off, before I say goodbye to our listeners, I want to turn the mic over to you and let you speak directly to our listeners, without me asking questions, and let them know on a little more personal level who you are, how you might be able to help them, etc. So the mic's yours.
Speaker 3:
Well, thank you. Uh, I just like to say that I'm bradley, grieving grandpa alonis pawpaw and I just want to be able to help people on their journey that's Need someone to walk with them a little bit, and if I can be that person that makes me feel good and gives what I'm going through purpose, because some folks that were on this journey a few steps ahead of me Reached back and helped me. So I feel I'm obligated that, since I'm on this journey and I might be two or three steps in front of somebody else to help them along, and I just kind of help people, you know, with their grief in different ways. I'm a speaker, I'm a trainer, I'm a fire police chaplain and that's, you know, just want to help people the best way that I can. There's nothing that. Um, I have a website, if you just go to bradley vinsoncom it's my namecom and there's a grief assessment there just to kind of maybe see where you stand with your grief, you know, and some resources there to check out.
Speaker 2:
But I saw was want to be available to people Because, uh, the journey is theirs individually, but if they're willing to let someone walk with them for a little while, I would love to be that person and I'm convinced and one of the reasons Stephanie and I started this podcast Is we just want to open the communication channels, because most times, just being able to talk about it Whether it's your personal grief or just general questions about what what is grief? Or I have a friend who's suffering, how can I help? Just making conversation easier, and sometimes that's really all it takes and you have no idea how, in a few words, you can help someone along. So Reach forward, grab our hands and we'll reach back and grab yours when you stretch it out.
Speaker 2:
So until next week, I'm going to remind you again take care of yourselves. I can't stress that enough. If you do nothing else, if you can't get off the couch, if you can't do anything else, for heaven's sake, remember to eat, remember to hydrate, get up and take a shower. You'll feel better, you'll feel accomplished. So Please, come back. I love it when everybody comes back. Take care of yourself, stay well and your journey, as we all continue to live in grief.
Speaker 1:
Thank you so much for listening with us today. Do you have a topic that you'd like us to cover or do you have a question from one of our episodes? Please email us at info at as I live in grief dot com and let us know. We hope you will find a moment to leave a review, send an email and share with others. Join us next time as we continue to live in grief together.