Pancakes for Roger

When grief tugs at our hearts, finding solace can often light the way through the darkness. Join me as I chat with Susan Combs, who, in honoring her father—a distinguished major general and civilian judge— transformed her sorrow into a legacy of hope. In our compelling discussion, Susan shares how her father's battle with Agent Orange-related throat cancer brought unique challenges, but also how these experiences shaped her endeavors with "Pancakes for Roger," a book and also a non-profit infused with her father's ethos of service and mentorship.

As we peel back the layers of grief, we are presented deep look into the nature of grief. We discuss the contrast between anticipatory mourning and the maelstrom of emotions that follow an unexpected loss. Our conversation delves into the importance of embracing the full spectrum of our loved ones' lives and how a personal tribute can be a potent tool in the healing journey. Susan and I reflect on the steps we took to mend after our losses, and how these actions provided much-needed emotional closure.

Contact:
www.asiliveandgrieve.com
info@asiliveandgrieve.com 
Facebook:  As I Live and Grieve 
Instagram:  @asiliveandgrieve 

To Reach Susan:
Website: www.pancakesforroger.com
Email:  info@combsandco.com

Credits: 
Music by Kevin MacLeod 

Transcript

Stephanie: 0:01

Welcome to, as I Live in Grief, a podcast that tells the truth about how hard this is. We're glad you joined us today. We know how hard it is to lose someone you love and how well-intentioned friends and family try so hard to comfort us. We created this podcast to provide you with comfort, knowledge and support. We are grief advocates, not professionals, not licensed therapists. We are you.

Kathy: 0:26

Hi everyone, welcome back again to As I Live and Grieve. Thanks again so much for joining us every week. With me today is Susan Combs, and she has a very, very special, wonderful and amazing legacy that, in the midst of her grief, she has created in memory of her father. I'm going to let her tell you all about it. Hi Susan, thanks for joining me today.

Susan: 1:01

My legacy is actually kind of one of my father. My father was a major general and a civilian judge. He served our country in the military for over 39 years. He was one of those guys that was good when nobody was watching. He did a lot of service. He mentored a lot of people. He shared a lot of life lessons with me that I've shared with a lot of people in my Pancakes for Roger, that came out in 2022. So the legacy that I want to continue for him is also one of just doing good when nobody's watching. So I've actually incorporated it as a Pancakes for Roger, and I know we're going to get into that in a little bit. But the mission of Pancakes for Roger is to connect veterans with funding opportunities to do good in their backyards and beyond.

Kathy: 1:45

That's super. This is near and dear to my heart because my late husband, Tom, was a Vietnam veteran. He was retired Army and I too support the veterans many, many ways, but I think this idea that you had is especially touching and endearing. So at what point does one start something like this? I mean, your dad was ill for quite a while, as I understand correct?

Susan: 2:08

Yeah, so my father was diagnosed with Agent Orange-related throat cancer in 2008. And you know, it's one of those things. I mean, my mom always said we were fat, dumb and happy, right? W e didn't realize how good we had it for 10 years until it was the end. And I'll tell you, 10 years wasn't super easy for him. I mean, he had had some major surgery that he didn't have an epiglottis, so that's a flap that covers your windpipe so when it came to eating and things like that, he had to be very cautious. So he couldn't really engage in conversation when we were having meal time and for most people that's where a lot of times people have their great deep family conversation. Sure, but, like I said, we had 10 relatively good years. My father had a Winnebago and he liked to travel, and so he would go to, I mean, military reunions and things like that all across the country. And then the last year of his life he relapsed twice and so the second relapse we knew it was pretty much the end. And I live in New York City and I grew up in a town of 1,000 people in the Northwest corner of Missouri and I was fortunate enough that I was able to return home and move back home for basically the entire summer to help care for him when he was on hospice. And it's one of those things that I think about a lot of times. A lot of times people think of hospice as just such a negative connotation, but it's just like, oh, that's the end. I'm actually a hospice volunteer now to kind of pay homage to hospice and how good they were to our family, and hospice is a beautiful thing and we were always told don't bring them in too late, because it's a comfort. I mean, it's about making people comfortable and supporting the family. And my father went on hospice in July I mean it was around, I think it was July 14th and then he ultimately passed away on August 22nd, 2018.

Susan: 3:49

And it's one of those things that my dad and I had such a cadence. I mean my dad, was a military guy. He and I were both the Type As in our family, really scheduled and regimented, and I'll tell you, I think I missed that more than anything else because the rest of my family are not Type As, and so when it comes to processes and schedules, I mean they drive me pretty crazy. I'll let you know, but my dad and I we had a cadence, where kind of our rule of thumb is if anybody woke up in the middle of the night, y ou checked on them. M y father, in the last year of his life, h e had a feeding tube and he was also on oxygen and we were very fortunate enough to actually have hospice at home. So since we had hospice at home, we had a hospital bed for him in what he called his 'I love me room' that had all of his military accolades and awards.

Susan: 4:33

And my mom always said I don't even know why the hell we worried about the paint. We colored the walls, because you couldn't even see the walls. But so I would get up at 5am every day and I would check on my dad and if he was good, then I would go to the gym and I would come back and I'd check on him again, and if he was still good I would go get cleaned up for the day. T hen I'd come and help him get ready for the day and help him with his tube feeding and, since he had the feeding tube, and then I would literally sit in my childhood home on the floor at the coffee table with my laptop after I got him in his recliner and I would just, I would just work there all day and so that if my dad needed something I was right there. But I mean, as you know, and I'm sure a lot of your people that that are listening know, caregiving is not for the faint of heart, it is brutal. I look at pictures of myself from during that time and I look 10 years older. Yes, you know, I was sleeping with a baby monitor on a couch in the room next to his, just in case he would need something. I was right there and it was just..

Susan: 5:28

It was exhausting and you know I always tell people you know especially that are going through this. You got to make sure to fill your cup. So the gym for me was filling my cup because I knew in the morning I would have one hour to myself, and if I had to give everything else away the rest of the day, at least I has one thing for myself, right, and so whatever that is for you I mean you might not be a gym rat like me, but maybe it's prayer and meditation in the morning, maybe it's reading, maybe it's just taking a walk, maybe it's sitting out on your porch with a cup of coffee Just don't feel guilty about filling your cup because it's like I said, you can just give everything away at the end of the day and then I'm not going to give that. So I think that's just so, so important. And we can go into the specific story of , if you want me to.

Kathy: 6:15

Yes, we'll get to that. I do want to kind of reassure our readers and I know I went through that, that caregiving phase although for me caring for Tom, it was a period of eight months. He actually died of an agent-orange-related brain tumor, which was very difficult as well, and to watch your loved one decline while you are giving your all. I remember specifically at one point I thought to myself I have no me left. I have given up everything. I've given up my routine. I, you know, that lunch once a week or once a month with this friend or that friend. I had given it all up for multiple daily trips to labs, and doctor appointments, and analysts and everything, to care for him. You do it willingly, certainly because of your love for that person, but it happens gradually and you're so focused on your mission of caring for that person that you don't realize what you're giving up. So I love what you just said about filling your cup. It's extremely important, it's a part of self-care. Sometimes, you know I would use the analogy if you're on a plane and they do that pre-flight safety thing and they talk about if the oxygen mass dropped from the ceiling put yours on first, and it's that whole concept that you have to do what you can so that you can survive first before you can help other people. So yeah, and after Tom died, I remember I was redefining myself. Now they can say what they want to about anticipatory grief, I don't feel, even though I knew it was coming and as the day got closer and closer I could tell it was not only inevitable, it was coming soon.

Kathy: 7:58

The last day I walked into his room at the Veterans facility he was at. I remember thinking to myself, when I heard him breathe, that this was the day. This was the day it was going to happen. And it did happen. That day I thought, okay, it's happened, it's over. There was a momentary sense of relief that we had reached that point. But, man, about 10 minutes later it hit me, and it hit me hard. Did you find a similar experience?

Susan: 8:27

You know, I think for me and I've talked to other people about this too, and you said you knew it was coming. I knew it was coming too, I don't know any different. I've talked to friends that have had that immediate, like their father had a heart attack, and they had no time. I think that would be such a shock to your system that I don't even know how you could function. But then I think, maybe after you've had time to reflect, maybe you can say well, at least they didn't suffer. But I don't know any different than how I went through it.

Susan: 8:57

But I think for me, I think the mind can play tricks on you and I don't know about with you and your circumstances, but I didn't remember my father as the sick person. I remembered him as the healthy person, and then it made me miss him more, and so it's just, i t's one of those things that I remember every single day. Before I walked into his room I was praying he was gone, yes, yes, because I knew he was suffering. Yes, but I was gutted and I still am.

Kathy: 9:25

I know, I know we hear it in your voice, I can see it on your face and and I'm right there with you as tear up. I'm gonna tear up too, because it's so, it's so real, and in an instant it comes right back.

Susan: 9:41

So I mean, I've talked to people about that and they say the same thing where it's just like, yeah, they don't remember the person, right, yeah?

Kathy: 9:49

Now one of the things I I have come to to realize and believe is that as you move forward on your grief journey and we all at some point do move forward it takes a long, long time for some others Just kind of start walking, so to speak, and they kind of move right through it. But at some point, I think, you have the realization that you don't want to go on with everything as it is, and that overwhelming sense of sadness and depression, that you need to do something different in your life. Did you also feel that? And is that when you started to think about what can I do?

Susan: 10:26

So for me, like you know, I've been somebody that I've never had to deal with any mental health, okay, you know, type of issues, so I've just never been a real depressive person. So but I will say that my brothers have dealt with that and so they dealt with the grief much differently than I dealt with it. I dealt with the grief more like my dad did -- move a muscle, change of thought. So I, and I will say that I think, especially in a family, you know, there's always somebody that steps in, and I was the one that stepped in because I my thought process was very similar to my father's and, like I said, he was a general, he was a judge, there was a lot of shit, my dad, I mean there were what, s even bank accounts and eight properties.

Susan: 11:04

I mlearned a lot and getting things move over the trust. But we triggered hospice and I and I sat. I was fortunate enough to sit down with my dad twice before he passed away and spreadsheet a lot of things because I knew and it was things like who's the plumber, who's the electrician, who do I call fthe? Sell the Winnebago to share? Who do I talk for the military stuff like the VA benefits for my mother. Exactly, I knew my mother was going to be in such devastation she wasn't gonna be able to deal with that. Nor is that her skill set, right.

Susan: 11:33

You know, I'm like uber ype a, I'm very organized, I own businesses and it's just that was an easier thing for me, but I will say that I think my grief was a little bit delayed because I threw myself into work mode so quick. Okay, I mean, I remember I had one week. I talked to my one of my brothers on a Friday I'm my brother, att and he was like how's your week? And I was like Lord. I said I logged 14 hours on phone calls for dad it was just like he said is there anything I can do on him?

Susan: 11:59

ike, well, not now, it was like the VA Defense me, my father was buried in Arlington and so dealing with Arlington, but the thing is I am, I check my ego, mm-hmm, and so I am okay, asking for help and I'm also in my office we call it tenacity, like tenacious where the ability to find the answer. So I'm really good at knowing where to go to get the information. So, since I went into work mode and I'll tell you, you know he wasn't buried in Arlington until a year after his passing. Okay, just because Arlington, I mean they have 40 services a day, yes, right now, because it's the perfect storm. We still have World War two guys, we have Vietnam, we have Korea, you know Afghanistan, desert Storm, I mean in current conflicts as well, mm-hmm, and so there's just so much that I mean when my grandparents were buried there, I mean my grandmother was buried within two weeks in 83 my grandfather was buried like within a month, you know. I mean it's just, it's totally different. So I think that Arlington was definitely the closure for me. Okay.

Susan: 13:00

I wil. There's, there's videos at the service and you just hear me. Yeah, because I don't think I felt like the closure, thanks. But writing the book was actually like a gift to myself, I would say so I, to be honest, like I had had people that had been after me to write a book and I always thought I do a Lot of public speaking and I always thought, okay, the book is going to be kind of how I end my talks with unsolicited advice. It gives quick quotes from people that have mentored me along the way, give some history about that person and tell you how to plug and play that information. That's what it was supposed to be. But then the general came in and took over the whole fricking thing and so it's just like it's mostly lessons for my dad, and then you know it's sprinkled with other mentors I've had. But I man, I ugly cried every week that I wrote with my partner and it just it was. It was very cathartic for me, yeah and you know, and I think the thing too.

Susan: 13:51

I mean I, you know, I have one girlfriend that I grew up with that she lost her dad when we were in high school, but for the most part I mean I was, I was still in my 30s with my dad passed and I don't really have any friends Like close circle friends outside of my girlfriend Carrie, that that had gone through that. So my friends didn't really know how to support me. And you know I call it the ead dad's club. I mean I and my mom's small town, I call it the widows brigade. I mean it's just like there's these people that will come out of the woodwork and help you and support you. That might just be a perimeter friend, mm-hmm, and you just they tell you exactly what you need, yes, and then what that also kind of ingrained in me is makes me want to do those things too.

Susan: 14:34

So when somebody posts on Facebook, on Instagram, that they lost somebody close, I reach out to them privately. I don't make a big grand statement on their picture that they posted. That gets lost in the shuffle. I remember that and not even being able to comprehend, but if somebody took the time to text me or send me, email or private message me. Then I could take a second and I could be real and I could be honest with how I was feeling and they understood. And that was so helpful. Yes, yes.

Kathy: 14:59

So let's move on now to Pancakes for Roger. Tell me about it.

Susan: 15:03

So Pancakes for Roger, actually. I mean, we're calling it a movement, so you know, with my dad. So, as I said, he was a, he was on a feeding tube and we had that kind of morning cadence. And one morning when I went to his hospital bed to help him get around for the morning, he wasn't there. And I went into the front room, he wasn't there. I went into the littering room he wasn't there. I checked the bathroom he wasn't there. I went to the kitchen and he was sitting there with a placemat, his silverware and a plate. He had set the table and I looked at him. I said, dad, what are you doing? And he said, "well, I want pancakes for breakfast. And it just broke my heart Because I knew I just this man.

Susan: 15:39

For a year he had never complained about a feeding tube, he had never said, oh, I wish I could do this. Like he was a soldier, right, he knew what his journey was, he knew this is how it was. And he accepted that. And I looked at him. I said", O "oh God, dad, you know there's nothing in this world that I want to give you than pancakes for breakfast. But I said, dad, we're on hospice, we have a DNR. I said if you choke here, we're done. And I just don't think we're quite ready to be done. And of course he said oh yes, I can. Matt said I could. Well, matt is my brother and he's a nurse and he wasn't there that morning, so I knew we were dealing with some oxygen confusion from being too low.

Susan: 16:12

And so I said to him I said, " well, let me see what I can do. So his tube feeding formula the general always wanted it Heated up for 14 seconds, if I mean. He would know if I had done 13, I had done 15. He knew. So I heated up for 14 seconds and I came over to the table and I said it on the table and he said what's that? And I said that's your syrup. And so his oxygen levels kind of rallied around and he got a smile on his ear design and he said, " OK. So a few short weeks later he passed away and when I came back to New York City I took one day off work. I needed one day to shut out the noise, not think about work, not look at emails.

Susan: 16:43

I just wanted one week for me, before I hit the ground running with my family office and my husband said, " why don't we go have some pancakes? So we went to the Bel Air diner in Queens. We had some pancakes. My husband took a picture. I talked about it on social media and I said - " if you're so inclined, why don't you have some pancakes for Roger and think about all your blessings in your life? Because our lives can change in a blink of an eye and things like enjoying a stack of pancakes just cannot be in your car if you want. And so I just was talking. I didn't mean if. I didn't even think it would ever go anywhere. It was just like I was sharing some of my heart and some of my sorrow.

Susan: 17:19

And then people started having pancakes and people started sending me pictures. And then people started saying, " I can't have pancakes and not think about your dad. And so what we started doing is my father's birthday was February 22. So the month of February, what we do for every pancake loving picture that we get on social media using the hashtag and public-facing profiles, pancakes for Roger, or they can tag our Pancakes for Roger Instagram or Facebook account we will make a donation to the University of Missouri School of Law Veterans Clinic, and the Veterans Clinic there actually provides free legal services for veterans and their families navigating VA claims and appeals process, discharge upgrades and a whole lot more. So it's a way to give a living legacy and it's kind of cool, because my father's passion was the legal field, as a judge, and then he was a two-star general, so it's kind of combining both those things and just doing good that way.

Susan: 18:11

So I will tell you we're gearing up for Pancake month, right I mean, February is just a few days away but last year we got all 50 states, we got 24 additional countries and we got all seven continents. So I'm really trying to campaign for Antarctica, because that was a real hard one to get. I don't know if you can hold it. I have a friend that he had a ctually, he was going to have a vacation in Antarctica and he texted me two days ago and he said, "susan, the Antarctica trip got moved to 2025.

Susan: 18:39

So, who needs Antarctica? I t's one of those things that it's fust that I'll tell you. The most rewarding thing for me is people tell me that their kids are growing Pancakes for Roger . So it's like these little kids that have been doing this campaign for the past five years are like they're talking about military service. They're talking about service. They're talking about being appreciative of the little things in their life and their kids are getting that lesson. So we have a lot of fun with it. We do awards. I mean this year we're adding an award which I'm super excited about. So we do the most patriotic pancake, the most creative pancake, the most school spirit pancake, the most overall pancake, but we're actually adding the most creative location to have a pancake.

Susan: 19:21

So I have some Broadway friends that they're like,

Susan: 19:28

So one of them is actually in a vampire play right now. They're like, oh, you might get pancakes with vampires and I'm like that would be incredible. So we're going to try to get an aircraft carrier too. So we'll see what ends up happening.

Kathy: 19:38

That's wonderful. It's such a wonderful story and, as it turns out, I know we're recording this today, but this is actually going to launch in February, so it's be to be certainly . The story just warms my heart. I love when people can kind of I won't say use their grief, because that's not what you're doing, but you're extending your purpose in life by a memory of your dad that is so precious and so intimate to you and you're allowing everyone around you and people you don't know from countries you've never been to, you're allowing them also a little insight in your life and how special your dad was to you. That was now. If it was me doing that for Tom, it would have to be coffee from Tim Hortons that was his thing, but coffee for Tom I can

Kathy: 20:35

But I just love whe, and I call it a legacy, because it keeps the memory of your dad up alive for years and years and years to come. And if there's one thing I also know about people who grieve is i makes me feel good. When I encounter someone and they say, oh, you know, I miss Tom, I remember Tom when they speak, when they speak their name, it just really, really touches you. So you know, the month of February is going to be so dynamic and I did check out your website and I did look at the pancake map and I thought, oh my gosh, this is an international explosion.

Susan: 21:16

Well, we got great military backi Absolutely. We got people stationed all over the world.

Kathy: 21:21

Absolutely, and I'm still connected. Tom was connected with our local Vietnam Veterans of America chapter and I happen to be the editor of their newsletter and I'm working on February's newsletter, mabe there be a little insert in there about the way for Roger and then I will send you the link to it as well. But I just I think this is fabulous and it is so wonderful of you to give of yourself, to give something so intimate as this memory of your dad. That is just so, so special, and I love that things like this come from the grief we feel and experience that just well. Sometimes I just can't express in words what it does.

Susan: 22:05

But it's just an easy, fun thing and I'll tell you, I mean, we've gotten creative because I have some friends that are like, Susan, I just can't choke down a pancake, I hate pancakes. And I said what about a kimchi pancake? What about a scallion pancake? What about a crepe? And then, since we have the book, we allow people to do pictures with the book.

Susan: 22:26

So people do pictures with the book and pancakes that counts for double.

Susan: 22:29

So it's just like so we're every single thing. And then we're doing actually a couple of weightlifting competitions, one in New York and one in Kansas City in February, and so we have shirts for the competition. So that's going to count triple. So I will say my, my two little nieces, osie and Evie, they're excited, and so they got their dragon slayer hoodies and so on. On February 1st there's going to be a picture with them with their hoodies and the book and pancakes. So that's going to count triple. So it's pretty exciting All right Now explain.

Kathy: 22:59

ou just said dragon slayer. What's the connection with dragon slayer?

Susan: 23:02

Okay, so the full name of the book is ancakes for Roger a mentorship guide for slaying dragons. Okay, so when I set out to write the book, it was originally I mean, after I saw my dad was taken all over, it was it was obvious it was going to be ancakes for Roger. And he said a mentorship guide for life. And then at 2am one day I popped awake and said no, a mentorship guide for slaying dragons. And I remember my publishing team and my editors and things like that. They're like I don't know Susan. I was like you don't know me yet. Like once you get to know me, you know this is the right title. And so we get working together and working together. And they're like, eah, that's it.

Susan: 23:37

So slaying dragons is just an obstacle, right? I mean it's just like we have,. We have decisions we make every single day, right. And so it's just like those obstacles that come into our way, dealing with grief I mean sometimes getting up in the morning is slaying dragons, absolutely. And so that's we. So we decided to call our first weightlifting competition the dragon slaying competition. So we're super excited about that. So we actually we have an image that I've named him Axel, I don't know, it's just like a really jack dragon in his barbell instead of being plates, it's actually pancakes or the weights. So it's super. It's going to be super fun and we're really excited about it.

Kathy: 24:13

That's great. Sadly, our time is winding down. It's arly. You know, I target 30 minutes and and I always feel really sad when the time winds down because I get excited about things like this, and I could just go on and on. But before I actually wind down and say farewell to everyone, I want to turn the microphone over to you and I want you to either tell something different or repeat what you said about how people can support pancakes for Roger. Whatever you want to tell our listeners, we also have an international group of listeners listeners in over 90 countries around the world, so this is an opportunity to really spread it again. So tell people how they can support pancakes for Roger.

Susan: 24:58

Go right ahead. So Pancakes Roger Inc actually incorporated as a nonprofit at the end of 2023. So we're actually in the process of building on our endowment because ultimately, hopefully, it's looking like we're going to be able to do a couple of them this year but ultimately speaking, we're going to be able to give grants to veterans that want to do good in their backyards and beyond. So as of . Say you have a veteran that's a little league coach but maybe they don't have any equipment. Say you have a veteran that's wanting to start a business and needs a little bit of seed money to get kind of the nitty gritty paid for in the beginning. So that's kind of what we're wanting to eventually take this to.

Susan: 25:35

This year we're still going to be supporting the Veterans Clinic at the University of Missouri. I will say a lot of times people think when you say University of Missouri Veterans Clinic and they live in Albuquerque, they're out. That's not the case. So you just have to find them. You don't have to be from Missouri, you don't have to be a Missouri grad. I always tell people that actually a lot of the universities around the country have Veterans Clinics. So check out a major university If, say you're a veteran and you have a claim and you think that something happened or you're not quite sure of the paperwork, reach out to those major state universities and see if they have a Veterans Clinic that can provide you with free legal services. And then, when it comes to like the pancake campaign, just have pancakes. I mean I will tell you. We don't need to have proof that you ate them, I just posed for the picture. So we got 24 countries last year and that's the most additional countries we've ever gotten. So if you have 90 countries is listening, I mean that would be just absolutely incredible if we can top that. That was a really high bar this year, or last year rather, but we're super excited to see what this year will bring.

Susan: 26:36

And as for the book, the book is separatin the four sections self love, family and career. I've actually had a lot of veterans that they actually buy it when somebody has a kid as a kind of as a guy to raise a strong child, and I will say that I had a wonderful father. I understand that not everybody did so. A lot of times there's people that grow up and they don't get all the great life lessons that I did and I was trained that if you get a good piece of advice, it's your duty to share it with somebody else. So that's what I tried to do with the book. So you know, we always say you know, have a pancake, use the hashtag you know and help a vet. That's all you got to do.

Kathy: 27:08

Well, I have so, so many things I could say about this. Susan, you spoke so eloquently about it, so let me just add a few things. I have grandchildren and one of the things I have tried to teach them because I sense that our overall commitment to philanthropy, to giving to charities, is kind of waning in the generations below me. I want to show my grandchildren and younger kids everywhere that one of the easiest ways to support some type of charity or nonprofit is to find an event they have where you get something in return. So here is your perfect opportunity to instruct your children what it means to support a charity and organization that is helping others for purely selfless reasons. And hey, come on. All they have to do is eat pancakes and post it on social media. So this, I think, is a perfect opportunity for that. With younger children. I'm going to go have pancakes for Roger. Does it have to be a particular day in February? The entire month.

Kathy: 28:15

h, The entire month. You have pancakes once, once a week, every day, if you want, doesn't matter. Have pancakes and make sure you take a picture and post it. This is so simple and you are helping thousands of people, not to mention the smiles that you are spreading everywhere. And tell your kids to tell their friends, their classmates, would it?

Kathy: 28:43

Wbe great if an entire classroom had pancakes or, even better, an entire school had pancakes. There are so many ways to be creative and do things like this, and what a great, again great opportunity. And this one helps our veterans again, which are near and dear to me. You hear me talk about Tom a lot, and he would have been in the army until the day he died if they would have kept him. But he injured his foot and you know they said sorry, it's time to leave. So anyway, and again, I can go on and on and on.

Kathy: 29:18

I think making yourself smile is a great form of self-care, because when you smile, you start to look forward, you cease looking back. So do all these good things Buy the book, gift the book. How could you, how could you go wrong? Come on, all right, it's time to say goodbye. Please take care of yourselves everyone. Susan, thank you, thank you, thank you so much. You have brightened my day incredibly with your story and that now every February for me is going to be pancakes for Roger, and every time I see or hear the word pancakes I'm going to think of your dad. Great memory, thanks. And to our audience out there, thanks for tuning in. Take care of yourselves. Come back again, as we all continue to live and grieve.

Stephanie: 30:09

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